Christian Bias

[B2G]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by itsrobert (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I am so tired of Christianity being treated as a dirty word. For me, it's about faith in something larger than myself.

I am pro-choice. I am pro-gay marriage. I am tolerant of other faiths. I am tolerant of Atheist beliefs. I don't need to denigrate their beliefs to boost my own.

I am sick to death of the slams against my beliefs and the constant dredging up of examples of fundamentalism to support non-believers postions. Many of whom, bend over backwards to explain that fundamentalist Isalm isn't indicitive of the majority of the practitioners. I am sick of the snarky comments elicited by those who offer prayers to others.

When was the last time you saw a Christian start a thread denigrating Atheists? Never. But the reverse is constant.

If we're serious about being a 'big tent' party, we need to become more tolerant of our religious members. The hypocrisy around how Christianity is viewed on this board is nothing short of astounding.

[Warpy]

1. Instead of griping at us, why not take on the folks that gave it a bad name?

I'm talking about the Christian Right, who we all know are neither. They have damaged the name so badly that a lot of young believers won't self identify as Christian.

I find that sad.

It's up to you to take it back from the fundies. Posts like this one aren't helping you do it.

[B2G]

10. Why is it up to me?

[Warpy]

13. It might have to start with you.

I would love to see the name taken back by the Christians who got the point.

None of them seems to want to, though.

[Dorian Gray]

89. While I

would never start this OP, I do want to jump in right here.

I think that there are plenty of Christians who are doing a lot for equal rights and talking the talk. Look at the Nuns on the Bus, the Episcopal church in the US, Martin Luther King, JR's legacy, etc.

Just in my neighborhood alone, there are a whole bunch of Christian churches that provide gay and lesbian alliances.

It doesn't matter to some people, though.

Having said that, I don't care what "some people" say. I understand that some people don't like Christian theology, and I have no problem with that. I understand that the Catholic Church has reaped it's own bad reputation with its history, and I get why people are (deservedly) angry.

While I would love to see more of an understanding that Christianity is varied and not monolithic in nature, that there are liberals involved in trying to make positive changes, I get why people plug their ears to that, as well.

[Prophet 451]

2. As a Luciferian Satanist.....

.... I will support almost anything progressive Christians do to try and reclaim the public image of their faith from the fundie whackjobs. I was raised by a Christian who tried her best to live the teachings of Jesus and devoted her entire life to looking after disabled and disturbed kids.

The thing is, you're going to have to deal with the media. The media isn't liberally biased (quite the opposite) but it does have certain biases and one of those is sensationalism. Pat Robertson saying somethign outrageous makes a better story than Rev Jim Jones collecting blankets for teh homeless.

[RKP5637]

28. That, is one core problem IMO. The media ferrets out sensationalism to broadcast wide and far for

profit, hence the crackpot factor in religion gets a large and loud megaphone for free national recognition.

[Prophet 451]

52. I think the 24-hour news cycle bears some blame

There's 8,736 minutes that every channel needs to fill every week. That means that a lot of the time, they're casting around for something to report on and you can always rely on Robertson to have said something offensive recently.

[Electric Monk]

3. Your fourth paragraph is incorrect in more than one way.

You should be more careful about using absolutes, or thinking in absolutes, for that matter.

When was the last time you saw a Christian start a thread denigrating Atheists? Never.

It happens. I've seen Christians trying to bash Atheists here before.

But the reverse is constant.

Constant? That's easily disproved. There are plenty of discussions here having nothing at all to do with it.

[840high]

53. My daily wish is to

log on to DU and have one day without Christian bashing.

[Nye Bevan]

4. Jesus Christ never condemned homosexuality, abortion, contraception, or gay marriage.

And he never condoned capital punishment. In fact, he stepped in to save a condemned prostitute from being stoned to death.

He cautioned against excessive wealth, advocated giving to charity, as well as treating your fellow humans as you would like to be treated yourself.

I see Christianity being about the Gospels as opposed to the fundamentalist Old Testament stuff.

[cthulu2016]

5. Do you demand that belief in Santa Claus get the same respect?

If so, then you are consistent. But silly.

If not, then you have no argument other than that your delusions are special and deserving of respect.

[stone space]

17. I know many people who believe in Santa Clause.

And yes, I do treat them with respect.

Should I gratuitously insult them?

And if to, towards what end?

What would I be accomplishing by doing so?

[cthulu2016]

19. You may wish to re-read the sentence you're replying to

It referred to respecting the belief.

[stone space]

22. One thing that I've learned from some of my fellow atheists reciently is that ALL christians are...

...thoughtless or dishonest.

Looking at that photograph, those people (who do indeed appear to believe in santa clause) don't look thoughtless or dishonest to me.

[MellowDem]

66. All of them will be Santa atheists soon...

This is one temporary delusion society accepts for fun.

We don't have to respect Christianity as a belief system. There are plenty of good reasons it deserves no respect IMHO.

[rug]

33. Beliefs are abstract. People are not.

Criticism is entirely distinct from disrespect.

[RainDog]

6. Atheists are 17% of the population

..along with agnostics or "no affiliation."

Christians are the overwhelming majority.

Christians have routinely discriminated against other beliefs - you have, to use the jargon of the time - Christian privilege.

I want non-fundamentalists to speak out against fundamentalists, not a historically marginalized group. You would do a lot more to help your distress if that was your focus.

[Mariana]

7. Maybe this will make you feel better.

Here's what Jesus had to say about it.

Matthew 5 : 11 and 12

"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

[Electric Monk]

11. Matthew 6:5-6 is good too, but often forgotten

5 “When you pray, do not be like those who only pretend to be holy. They love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners. They want to be seen by others. What I’m about to tell you is true. They have received their complete reward.

6 “When you pray, go into your room. Close the door and pray to your Father, who can’t be seen. He will reward you. Your Father sees what is done secretly.

(New International Reader's version)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+6:5-6

5 “And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, they have their reward.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret; and thy Father who seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

(21st Centiry King James version)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+6:5-6&version=KJ21

[etherealtruth]

8. I try to live the spirit of my current sig line

It doesn't mean I won't criticize religions, when I feel criticism is due .... I simply don't have the urge to criticize folk for their belief systems. I know many phenomenal folk ... they come from all religions and no religion.

[Electric Monk]

15. I like your sigline a lot, but I've never been able to read it before now. So, I fixed it for you.

This just fits DUs 500x200 pixel rule for siglines without being resized, and now it is readable too.

[etherealtruth]

20. Thank you so very much

Clearly, I am not the most savvy person here ... I would have NEVER been able to do this myself! (as evidenced by my former teeny tiny unreadable sig line)

I truly appreciate this!

[stone space]

34. I'm not gonna say it...I'm not gonna say it...

I would have NEVER been able to do this myself! (as evidenced by my former teeny tiny unreadable sig line)

[etherealtruth]

38. Restraint

[Electric Monk]

67. I was mistaken about the 200x500 size limit. It is actually 100x400 now, so here's another version

Last edited Thu May 8, 2014, 12:42 AM - Edit history (2)

that won't be auto-resized, so the text is much more readable.

[stone space]

70. Well, it was kinda' humorous. (nt)

[etherealtruth]

86. Thank you, again

I am incredibly grateful that you would take the time to do this. So many times "we" will read "this is what makes DU suck' .... efforts like yours is what makes DU truly wonderful

[Beearewhyain]

9. As one of those dirty, dirty atheists

I'll let Gandhi say it for me...

[justiceischeap]

98. Wish I could rec this... nt

[stone space]

12. This atheist is sick of it, too. (nt)

[linuxman]

14. You're wasting your breath.

So long as someone somewhere on earth is a Christian AND an asshole, there all small minded people who will ignore what you have said, instead focusing on the fact that since you didn't personally deal with the aforementioned asshole (regardless of whether or not you even know where this person is), then you don't really care about Christianity's image.


That said, I consider myself a fairly worldly person. If I based my assumptions about the number of asshole religious people/atheists on this earth off the number suggested on anonymous internet forums, I'd be a more despondent person. In my travels I've found the vast majority of people to be good. Assholes make the news, though.

[NuclearDem]

16. I don't like unwarranted bashing of religion.

But when someone starts making claims or asserting them in a public forum, I'm probably going to address them.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. I'm tired of Christianity being used as an excuse to attack gay people

and I often wonder what the allegedly good faithful are doing about it. I think they are doing nothing. In Uganda, Christian ministers are calling for murder of gay people, the law allows for life in prison and Catholic Bishops are urging parents to turn their gay children in to the police. The Pope, who says nothing to object to any of this, is lauded on DU as a great leader of his faith.
I have not seen a single thread started by a 'believer' about what their counterparts in Africa are doing, what they are doing to stop it, or even to say they oppose such things. I see tons of praise for the Pope. Not a word about Uganda. Almost entirely Christian Uganda.
But also, I'm sorry your feelings get hurt. It must be just awful for you.

[kwassa]

62. Uganda's anti-gay laws are condemned by American Christians, even conservative evangelicals.

This one surprised me. The Southern Baptist Convention, not a friend to gays.

http://www.religionnews.com/2014/03/04/u-s-evangelicals-defense-ugandas-new-anti-homosexuality-act/

Decrying laws in countries such as Uganda and Russia, Russell Moore, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, said he knows no evangelicals who would support legislation like Uganda’s.

“We always must balance a fear of Western cultural imperialism with a responsibility to speak to global human rights around the world,” said Moore, who has also denounced Russia’s anti-gay laws because he has adopted sons from Russia.

“Those of us who hold to a Christian sexual ethic don’t want to see those who disagree with us jailed; we want to see them reconciled to God through the gospel.”

and good old Rick Warren.

California megachurch pastor Rick Warren, too, posted on his Facebook page on Sunday (March 2) denying allegations that he ever supported the Uganda bill. In 2009, Warren posted an “encyclical video” on YouTube saying he opposes the criminalization of homosexuality.

“Last week, the nation of Uganda passed a bad law, which I have publicly opposed for nearly 5 years,” Warren wrote. “I still oppose it, but rumors persist because lies and errors are never removed from the internet.”

Evangelical humanitarian organization World Vision has opposed the bill since 2009, arguing that it could hamper efforts to reduce HIV/AIDS. “More people would be reluctant to seek, receive or even provide care and compassion out of fear of being reported,” the organization said in a statement. “This would also make their families and children even more vulnerable.”

even Scott Lively, scumbag that he is, begs off.

“It’s a very insulting argument, that somehow an American evangelical pastor is so powerful that I’ve overwhelmed the intelligence of an entire government and turned them out to do my will,” Lively said. “The Ugandans knew what they wanted to hear.”

He said he does not support the bill in its final form.

[DemocraticWing]

78. Are you assuming there are no gay Christians?

I'm sorry, but we do exist, and I don't think we're typically silent about such evil anywhere.

[scarletwoman]

21. "I am so tired of Christianity being treated as a dirty word." Put the blame where it belongs,

on the "Christian" Right.

Believe whatever you want in private, it's no concern of mine. My concern is the constant attempts by your self-proclaimed co-religionists to tear down the wall of separation between Church and State. I have no tolerance for that.

If it were up to me, I would expunge all usages of god and the bible in the public sphere, in order to clearly delineate that we live in a Secular State.

Realistically, in what contexts is it necessary to proclaim one's religious beliefs in the first place? Far preferable, imo, would be to demonstrate whatever insight, values and principles your faith might afford you - compassion, loving kindness, concern for your less fortunate bretheren, etc. - without feeling a need to reveal which religion you ascribe to. Is it not enough to simply behave as a good human being?

[scarletwoman]

24. Nice strawman argument. People can say whatever they want.

I'm talking about officially sanctioned, government sanctioned religious references, nothing else.

It's nothing to do with free speech.

[linuxman]

43. I'm not sure you know what a strawman argument is.

"If it were up to me, I would expunge all usages of god and the bible in the public sphere, in order to clearly delineate that we live in a Secular State. "

This is what I was referring to. You never mentioned government sanctioned religious references. Your statement indicated that you opposed public mention of religion and the bible. You should really be more specific and re-read what you wrote before accusing other people of "straw-manning".


What you mention NOW has nothing to do with free speech. What you posted originally did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_sphere

[stone space]

27. Oh, I don't know. How about in a context of war, for one?

Realistically, in what contexts is it necessary to proclaim one's religious beliefs in the first place?

[scarletwoman]

32. Sorry, I have no idea what you posted. I'm on dialup, I can't do videos.

Would you care to make your point in words, instead?

[stone space]

40. Sure.

The first contains a public recitation of the Lord's Prayer:

Catonsville Nine

Uploaded on May 17, 2006

17 May 1968 9 people walked into a Selective Service Office, took hundreds of draft files from a cabinet, took them outside, doused them with homemade napalm and burned them in the name of peace.

The second contains a public fulfilling of a biblical prophesy from Isaiah 2:4 "and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more"

Rocky Tiger Ploughshares - Action.

21 July 2011, a peace activist on a red tricycle disables a "Tiger"
attack helicopter with a garden mattock.

[scarletwoman]

51. Thank you, much appreciated.

I consider the King James Bible as an artifact of our shared English-speaking cultural heritage in the same way I consider Shakespeare. Quotes from the King James Bible are indeed useful and apt in a number of contexts - I happily and unironically use them myself from time to time. And just as using a well-known quote from Shakespeare is relevant far beyond being a reference to a particular play, using a quote from the KJB is not a reference to an entire set of specific religious beliefs.

Universal verities can be found in many places. I have no objection to those that come out of religious texts. There's a great deal of difference between broadly applicable ethical principles, and sectarian dogma.

[NightWatcher]

25. I'm so sorry you feel persecuted

It must be pretty tough to be in the majority, have your God praised on our country's currency, and have your God acknowledged before official government meetings while your Ten Commandments hang on the wall in many courthouses.

I hope that one day soon things will become easier on you and you won't feel persecuted on internet message boards.

[Arugula Latte]

29. Church signs routinely tell me that I'm going to burn in hell for not believing.

Heck, my "friend" told me that at a slumber party once. Religious people are not used to challenges and insults, because in their real lives it almost never happens. The Internet is different. But atheists sure are used to being told they suck and are evil--it is a constant drumbeat in this country, as is the assumption that everybody believes in god and everybody prays.

[rug]

35. Road signs routinely tell me I'll go to jail for speeding in a work zone.

Never at a slumber party, though.

[Prophet 451]

54. Church signs are weird in the US

The church signs here (UK) tend far more toward emphasising the love. My favourite one was one designed to look like a singles ad that said "Nazareth carpenter seeks joiners". Closely followed by the one that said "The creator of heaven and earth, he who moves upon teh deep and sees each sparrow fall... would like a word in your shell-like".

[stone space]

75. church sign

[Prophet 451]

77. Ha, love it!

And shouldn't we all be so blessed that we piss off the Phelps clan.

[Dorian Gray]

90. It's not just the UK

I'm in NYC, and I've never ever ever seen a church sign that said anybody was going to burn in hell. Ever.

(And I've traveled throughout the states quite a bit, though not much in the Bible Belt.)

[AngryAmish]

87. My daughter cries when my son shoots his superpowers at her.

Hint: he doesn't really have superpowers. He is 3 and she is 6.

Do I need to further draw the analagy to illustrate my point?

[Major Nikon]

26. There's no such thing as "Atheist beliefs"

Atheism is the absence of belief. Atheism has no tomes, no symbols to speak of, no sayings to chant, no dogma, no rules, no ceremonies, no invisible entities to converse with, and nothing to kill or die for. So there's nothing to denigrate other than atheists themselves. Denigrating Christianity is not the same as denigrating Christians and denigrating some Christians for using Christianity as a tool for hate, promoting ignorance, and promoting intolerance is not the same thing as denigrating all Christians.

[stone space]

30. Um...I hope you are speaking for yourself, because I have lots of beliefs.

And among my atheist beliefs is that it is wrong to denigrate Christians and other believers simply for who they are.

[Major Nikon]

37. That belief has nothing to do with atheism

You may believe in all sorts of things. I believe the sun will rise tomorrow. There is no pertinence to atheism.

I also have to wonder if you managed to make it past my subject line because I never said it was right "to denigrate Christians and other believers simply for who they are". So I'm not sure who you're trying to contradict here, but it isn't me.

[stone space]

42. You should speak to your own beliefs and not to the beliefs of others.

Do you also try to tell Christians what their Christian beliefs are and are not?

[Major Nikon]

44. I could care less what anyone believes

You included.

I care what people do with those beliefs if they are harming others with them.

Cheers!

[stone space]

46. I'll drink to that!

I care what people do with those beliefs if they are harming others with them.

Cheers!

[tkmorris]

48. Words have meanings

Atheism is NOT a belief based philosophy. It just isn't. You don't get to redefine words to make them apply to yourself.

[stone space]

50. You don't get to define my atheist beliefs.

You just don't.

[MellowDem]

63. There's no such thing as atheist beliefs....

It's nonsensical. There are no beliefs inherent to atheism.

[stone space]

68. Again, please don't try to tell me what my atheist beliefs are and aren't. (nt)

[defacto7]

80. Logically speaking, he didn't.

I thought you were a mathematician. He stated a position and his position stands. A belief needs no facts like faith absolutely requires that there be no facts. If there are facts, the faith disappears by definition. A belief is not a solid foundation for any logical premise. Atheists trust because trust can change when facts require it to do so. Faith cannot, facts destroy it. Beliefs are weak and don't represent anything that is solid enough for a reasonable position, just like you can't tell the difference between coming to terms that can be understood and thinking someone is telling you how to think. Common fallacy.

No one is telling you what to believe. What we are saying is that if the definitions are not sound, there is no basis for reasonable conversation.

[Nevernose]

64. Nobody is telling you what your beliefs are or should be

They're trying to explain the definition of a word to you, and "belief" has nothing to do with that definition.

[immoderate]

56. Do you think your views depart from those expressed above?

If so, how so?

--imm

[NuclearDem]

61. Atheism is just a statement of belief (or rather a lack of) on the existence of a god.

That's it.

Any sort of humanist or secular philosophy on the side is different.

[stone space]

69. Oh, this is getting tedious. (nt)

[m-lekktor]

73. you are making it tedious. you are wrong.

atheism is LACK of belief in a supernatural god and that is it. there is no other "atheist beliefs".

[stone space]

74. Right. You are going to tell atheists what our beliefs are and are not. (nt)

[Warpy]

83. No, he's defining a word

and that is different. If you have bunch of beliefs you can't prove, it's in addition to your atheism and not a part of it.

[el_bryanto]

31. This belongs in the Religion Forum rather than General Discussion. nt

[rug]

36. I thought she was talking about the Religion Forum.

[el_bryanto]

39. Then that's where the discussion should be had - it shouldn't

be dragged out into the General Discussion forum.

Bryant

[rug]

41. That was a joke, Bryant.

[TBF]

45. "I am tolerant of Atheist beliefs" -

Being an atheist means lack of belief. I am all for anyone believing in whatever they want/need or choosing not to have mainstream beliefs. But there is an establishment clause for a reason in this country, at least the founding fathers thought so (this current Supreme Court needs to sit down and re-read some of those early documents).

[CrispyQ]

47. There isn't a single admitted atheist in Congress. --nt

[DemocraticWing]

79. While technically correct...

it's only because Kyrsten Sinema refuses any religious label including atheist.

Now I'll say that I would agree with the common opinion espoused by many non-religious people that lots of politicians are privately non-religious, but claim to be religious for political purposes. Now as a Christian, I would think this is much more mendacious than honestly admitting to atheism before running for office, although I guess in a perfect world there wouldn't be persecution to the point where people have to hide their (lack of) beliefs.

[Ohio Joe]

49. When christian beliefs stop infringing on the rights of others, I'll stop calling them on it...

Until then... Fuck em.

[840high]

55. How about Muslim beliefs?

[Ohio Joe]

57. Muslim beliefs are not much of a problem in the US...

Repugs want us to be afraid of them but it is the christians that are actively working to legislate their beliefs and outlaw anything else... So for now I will focus on the massive problem and not the little one.

[840high]

58. Muslim beliefs are a problem

in the world.

[Ohio Joe]

59. Yeah well... It's about time the world started dealing with their own problems...

I am by no means an isolationist but enough of the world police bit. Let each country deal with their own fundies... And ours are christian.

[Arugula Latte]

60. But in the US Christianity is the dominant religion, and it is

the one that thinks it can tell people what to do and not do.

[stone space]

71. Watch out. I mentioned atheist beliefs and stepped into a hornet's nest.

christian beliefs

[TBF]

92. That it because you decided

you needed to willfully ignore the definition of words. You can choose to do that but sometimes people will call you on it.

[MellowDem]

65. Christianity is a terrible, regressive belief system...

Based on a horrible, bloody, misogynistic and bigoted text known as the Bible. If you choose to identify with it, don't be surprised when you find the belief system is constantly criticized on a liberal forum.

If you want to identify with a sacred text that commands the stoning of gays, the genocide of humans, and the second class status of women, all very explicitly, that's fine. You can come up with all sorts of illogical excuses as to why you identify with such a belief system while not believing much of it. I've heard it all before.

But your complaints of criticism as "bias" aren't warranted and smack of the ever present religious privilege of society. Religion has been protected from open criticism for so long due to religious privilege that many believers think any criticism is an attack on them. This is a reflection of their privilege.

[hrmjustin]

72. Huge K&R!

I sick of it too!

[AverageJoe90]

76. I think I can understand where you're coming from.

Although from my experience, most atheists I've met have actually been pretty decent people by and large.

[Humanist_Activist]

81. Seems to me like you think your religion is above criticism, it isn't, no idea is.

If you can't take criticism of your beliefs, then go elsewhere.

[alp227]

82. I wonder where you differentiate criticism and bashing.

do you not think it's possible to tolerate Christians as people but disagree with their beliefs?

Separation of church and state should be party of the democrats' platform. But remember that spectacle in the 2012 convention about the party platform acknowledging god? I thought the Democratic Party was supposed to be a sensible alternative to those who aren't so insecure about America they need to be spoon fed authoritarian, conformist slogans like God & Country 24/7.

I see "big tent" referring to people of color, immigrants, working class/labor union Americans, and others not at the top economic class, as well as those with VARYING religious/spiritual views. In a big tent arena, expect dissent from your religion.

[Oakenshield]

84. It must be so hard to have your beliefs criticized.

If only we could just burn blasphemers, heretics and infidels at the stake like we used to. Then we wouldn't have to risk our feelings being hurt.

[Skidmore]

85. You know, I read this thread last night before I turned in for the night and wanted to respond but

Last edited Thu May 8, 2014, 07:44 AM - Edit history (3)

decided to sleep on it first because I had a very visceral reaction in the moment.

First, let me state that I was raised in a fundamentalist church and lived for an extended period of time in a fundamentalist Islamic nation. I left the religion of my youth for some of the very same reasons that, as I have matured in life, have gelled into my view of religions, particularly the monotheistic traditions, over the years.

I watched the rank hypocrisy from the pulpit and in the pews during my formative years. I watched judgmental people who were barely in control of their own lives point fingers at others and condemn loudly. We see this amplified mightily in society in our times. I see intolerance, bigotry, and hatred of the other practiced under a creed based on a political document created over millennia. I also see religion being used to subjugate and persecute those of other religious traditions and those who don't adhere to religions. I watch the fundmentalists being given assent through silence to run roughshod over the greater of society. This exists in all of the "Big Three." Believe me when I tell you that there is very little difference between zealots once you look beyond the surface features of these theologies. I reject the insult that religion is to humanity.

I have learned that moral and good people exist everywhere and do not need to confine themselves to the chains offered by narrow theologies. Morality and goodness is more tied to the ability of a person to empathize and sympathize with others. I think it would serve the Christian community to adopt a more enlightened view toward others. No one has denied Christians the right to practice their religion. I think most of us would like it out of the public square. Keep it in the churches and the home, as Christians expect adherents of other religions to do. What is hypocritical about expecting respect and tolerance for all by a community which appears to be so dead set on setting up a theocratic state here as well? I find it hypocritical when Christians in this nation so bitterly engage in culture wars with other faiths while nursing a viper that would destroy the separation of church and state in this nation. I will continue to condemn radical and fundamentalist theology because the flock is unwilling to step up for the greater good. I have drawn my line firmly and have no use for fundmentalism of any stripe and the harm it does to the peoples of the world and the planet itself. It is too bad that so many choose to sit in silence and allow the few to terrorize a world.

[TBF]

94. Very well put. Especially in light

of the recent Supreme Court decision.

Some of us try hard to coexist with believers (it's pretty much what I have to do to survive Texas) but it's easier if both sides are respectful.

And it's definitely a big difference in philosophy between doing the things "for the glory of God" vs. "being the best person I can be".

I look back to the founding fathers and marvel that they were able to make this distinction and it was so important to them that it was Amendment No. 1 to the Constitution. We'll see in the next 250 years if it can hold up - right now I don't feel so optimistic.

[Earth_First]

88. Oh the poor, poor persecuted Christians... nt

[dawg]

91. People need to remember that stereotyping and broad-brushing people is always wrong.

The overwhelming majority of the country is, at least nominally, Christian. So liberal unbelievers sometimes treat DU like a safe place where they can come and vent.

But Christian liberals need to feel like we have a safe place here, too. We feel kind of alone in the world, just like unbelievers do.

[Adrahil]

93. I appreciate how you feel on this...

... But your conservative brethren that are bringing this on. But I do try to keep my comments narrowed to the right targets.

Peace.

[99Forever]

95. Magic isn't real. n/t

[LostOne4Ever]

96. Never huh?

When was the last time you saw a Christian start a thread denigrating Atheists? Never.

I have seen many such threads...including this one.

Let me see if I got this straight. You say you are tolerant of our beliefs. But, you just want us to stop criticising religion? Specifically your religion? Muslims are fine, just not yours? You have nothing against us, you just don't want us to be open in public about our.....our atheism?

Look. I try to be very civil and respectful with everyone, but no beliefs (religious or not) are above criticism. Especially when there is a very vocal minority of people who also adhere to said religios beliefs trying to force it upon me and others.

BTW, if we are bending over backwards to defend fundamentalist Islam I am sure that is news to Richard Dawkins who was getting called an islamophobic bigot a few months back...

[itsrobert]

97. GD Host here: Sorry, but I am going to have to lock this thread

In the Statement of Purpose for General Discussion it states "Religion" threads are prohibited. Please feel free to post a similar thread in the Religion and Spiritualty forums that have been provided by the Admins for such threads. link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024922599#

As you probably know DU members have strong opinions about religion on multiple sides and levels. Sometimes these discussions get a little touchy.

Thanks for your understanding in advance.