Australian couple has $1 million hospital bill after baby born in BC (Canada)

[Snake Alchemist]

SYDNEY - Australia's foreign affairs minister is looking into the case of a Sydney couple stuck with a million dollar hospital bill after their daughter was born in Vancouver last August.

John Kan and Rachel Evans had taken out travel insurance and extra cover for Evans' pregnancy without realizing the policy would not cover birth or the baby.

They were about to return to Australia after their B.C. vacation when Evans went into premature labour at the airport.

Piper Kan stayed in the neo-natal ward of the B.C. Women’s Hospital and Health Centre for three months and the bill ended up being about one-million dollars.

Australian media reports the couple negotiated a payment plan with the hospital at about $300 a month, which would take 278 years to pay off.

http://news.yahoo.com/australian-couple-1-million-hospital-bill-baby-born-080702717.html

Just an easy 278 year loan.

[eridani]

1. Foreigners pay cash on the barrelhead there

WA State health Care for All has a referral list of Canadian doctors. They all require cash up front for foreigners. Still, we have a lot of usage of the list because costs are about half what they are here.

[Snake Alchemist]

2. Up front? Yikes. nt

[Lucy Goosey]

7. Not for emergencies.

Obviously this couple didn't pay $1m up front.

But if a hospital isn't going to be able to bill the provincial insurance plan, which doesn't cover non-residents, they expect to be paid by the patient or the patient's insurance company. This doesn't strike me as unreasonable, but I might be biased - I'm a Canadian paying into the system, after all.

[Snake Alchemist]

8. I would think there would be some sort of hardship discount. nt

[Lucy Goosey]

9. Fair enough.

Though I think maybe the 278 year payment plan could count as a discount of sorts - the hospital isn't ever actually going to get its million back.

[Snake Alchemist]

10. Still way too much. Shouldn't be over a few grand and even that is a stretch at best. nt

[Luminous Animal]

12. For 3 months of neonatal care?

[Snake Alchemist]

18. Maybe 10-20K then. nt

[Lucy Goosey]

13. For 3 months in the neo-natal ward?

Again, I think a million seems steep, but a few grand doesn't cover that kind of care.

[Snake Alchemist]

17. Maybe 10-20K then. nt

[Logical]

35. LOL....in the 1920s

[Horse with no Name]

38. Here in the good old US

NICU costs from THOUSANDS to TENS OF THOUSANDS per DAY....depending on the level of care.

A million bucks for 3 months isn't out of the ordinary.

BUT...I have always heard if you need care in a country that has universal healthcare, you aren't billed.

This story seems a bit odd in that regard.

[Lucy Goosey]

43. Residents of Canada aren't billed

I'm not saying I'm happy with the way it works, but you have to be a legal resident (though not necessarily a citizen) of Canada to have your medical care paid for by the government.

I have an ID card from OHIP, the Ontario Health Insurance Plan, that I have to show to get care; even my doctor, who I've been seeing for 14 years, won't see me without it. A friend of mine had to go to the ER for a serious condition and didn't have her OHIP card on her; they asked her boyfriend for his credit card as soon as he showed up. (He brought in her health card the next day and his credit card was never billed; they had gotten the info just in case.)

(I have to wonder if part of the reason we can't make a policy of covering non-residents is that Americans without insurance would, quite understandably, travel here to seek care. Canada's total population (34mil) is lower than the number of uninsured Americans - we simply couldn't sustain our system if we were covering that many people who don't pay taxes here.)

[Snake Alchemist]

44. And some want us to have open borders in the US. nt

[Horse with no Name]

47. Good point.Thank you for sharing.

I remember when there was a flu vaccine shortage in the US--Americans flocked to Mexico to utilize THEIR allotted vaccine.

No doubt if Canada opened its doors to REALLY free healthcare to anyone in the country--that uninsured Americans would flock there too and suck your system dry--even though they won't support it for this country,lol.

Go figure.

[polly7]

73. Americans did come here for their flu vaccine.

The shots were available to them in towns all around me. We didn't have a shortage of the vaccine at the time because we got it from a different supplier, but Doctors were concerned that a massive influx could become a problem. All in all, though ..... it worked out well, and I'm glad they were able to get it.

[polly7]

70. It must vary a lot from province to province.

I lost my health card two years ago when my purse was stolen and have never gotten another yet (procrastinators are 'me'). They have my number in the system, and if I go to a specialist they just look for it on my referral sheet or go into the computer and get it. They do ask, and I do need to get another one, but it's never been a problem yet ... touch wood.

I remember reading years ago that OHIP had to re-issue all new health cards because the old ones were being lent out and used by people who didn't live in Canada. Doctors were claiming they were treating more non-Canadians in some of their clinics than they were Ontarians.

You're right, and that's the point I was trying to make, we don't have the population or tax base to cover people who come here for treatment without contributing.

[MicaelS]

3. This is ridiculous....

Australian residents can get treatments deemed medically necessary under reciprocal agreements with 11 countries, but Canada is not one of those countries.

So one Commonwealth country does not have a reciprocal agreement with another Commonwealth Country? My question is why not?

[Snake Alchemist]

4. Because Canadian doctors need their beautiful money? nt

[marlakay]

37. I have a friend who lives in Aus and they

Have a plan similiar to Canada they are covered for free.

[Mz Pip]

5. This is weird

This has me puzzled. What were they paying extra for???

<<John Kan and Rachel Evans had taken out travel insurance and extra cover for Evans' pregnancy without realizing the policy would not cover birth or the baby. >>

I guess the pregnancy wasw a pre-existing condition.

[Snake Alchemist]

6. My guess was things like gestational diabetes, morning sickness, etc.

Everything, but the actual birth.

[cbayer]

11. I thought there was reciprocity among citizens of the Commonwealth?

[Snake Alchemist]

14. "Australian residents can get treatments deemed medically necessary under reciprocal agreements

with 11 countries, but Canada is not one of those countries."

[cbayer]

15. Thanks for that. I had no idea.

[Cleita]

16. Shouldn't Australian Medicare foot the bill?

I think there is more to this story than meets the eye.

btw. If they had landed in the USA, the bill probably would have been 3Xs as much.

[Lucy Goosey]

19. Yes!

Canadian Medicare would cover it if it were a Canadian baby in Australia.

[Johnny Rico]

20. What a refreshing attitude this couple has!

From the story:

Evans tells the Herald Sun newspaper they don't begrudge the bill because they have a healthy daughter. "We don't feel our mistake was someone else's responsibility but obviously it is quite a large amount so any assistance we can get would be helpful.”

[Snake Alchemist]

22. Never a good idea to roll over in the face of ridiculous charges. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

21. $8,120 a day (presumably Australian, since this is an Australian report)

http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/thanks-a-million-canada-baby-pipers-huge-hospital-bill/story-e6frfq80-1226302282185

Seems a hell of a lot for continuous care, rather than specialist operations or drugs.

[Snake Alchemist]

24. I had not realized the gold inlayed bandages had arrived yet. nt

[laundry_queen]

29. NICU care is very expensive.

Some places have 1 on 1 care for micropreemies not to mention they often require expensive drugs on a continuous basis. A million dollars for a micropreemie born between 24 and 27 weeks is not unheard of by the time they are discharged. Especially if they have complications that require surgery.

[tsuki]

48. My friend just got out of Sacred Superstition. His bill was

over $100,000 for continuous care for 7 days. They gave him Mersa and sent him home without calcium blockers. He had to go in for another week, to correct those conditions, and it cost him another 100K.

My Mother was in the hospital for pneumonia and I was at the hospital to take care of her daily. They wanted 50K a week. Luckily, she had Medicare and TriCare for Life.

I think the bill would have been a lot higher in the US for Mother and Baby.

[belcffub]

23. My boss had an emergancy in canada a couple of years ago...

and the ambulance would not leave until someone went back to her hotel and got her insurance card...

she was on a ski trip and ended up off course and went face first into a rocky creak. Broke her arm and cut her face up pretty good... knocked a couple of teeth out as well if I remember right...

the ski patrol called the ambulance in and they administered basic first aid but would not leave until they had proof of insurance... I'm not sure what they would do if she had none... she was in the hospital a week... not sure what the cost was... the was her last ski trip to canada...

[laundry_queen]

25. I find that hard to believe.

Because as a Canadian, even I'm not covered for ambulance service and would require additional insurance and thus an insurance card - and I have never ever heard of someone being asked for that while they were injured. I've heard of people getting a bill afterwards, but never have I heard of an ambulance refusing to go to the hospital until an insurance card was produced. I've never even heard of them asking for the provincial health care card. Sounds like someone was pulling your leg. Or you, ours.

[polly7]

26. I always asked for an insurance card once the pt. was stabilized and if he / she was able to answer.

It was NOT a big deal, as relatives nearly always arrived shortly while we were finishing up our pcr's at the desk and were able to provide us with details, if not, we followed up the next day. The bit about refusing to go to the hospital is bull, imo. I've never heard of it.

[laundry_queen]

28. See now that's the first I've heard of it.

The insurance card. Interesting. Maybe because most of my relatives/friends that needed the service were either elderly, or unresponsive when taken in? Or maybe it's different by province or by health region.

[polly7]

30. I mean the provincial health card, or additional MSI or Blue Cross.

Mostly, the health card, and quite often it was easy enough for the receptionist or nurse at the desk to find it in the system if the pt. were able to give their name.

eta: If the pt. wasn't from Canada, I STILL completely doubt the ambulance would refuse to go to the hospital. All details can be gotten later once the pt. is stabilized and friends / family arrive at the hospital and can get the information. Sometimes it took us 3 or 4 days to get the health card / insurance details for people who are Canadians, there was never a huge rush to have it immediately. Care first ............ book work second.

[laundry_queen]

32. That's what I thought

reminds me of those stories I hear from time to time on message boards, about the Canadian aunt of a friend of a cousin who had to wait 5 years for brain cancer surgery. Never. Happens.

[polly7]

33. Yes, I've heard them all.

And don't believe many, if any at all, of those claims. We're not perfect, but the well-being of the pt. is our only concern.

I can think of a dozen times working in Regina when we were sent out on calls and received no health information at all ....... not even a pt. history. Yet, those pts were taken immediately to the ER. I still don't know what happened re their health insurance, it wasn't my job to figure it out while they lay unconscious or in too much pain in the back. We took maybe 2 minutes checking the medicine cabinet and fridge and counters for meds or drugs before we left, but there was absolutely no other delay.

[belcffub]

85. I know you won't believe me and it wasn't five years

but as I said in another part of this thread I work in Western New York and we have several Canadians working here... Two that I know of use our insurance... one had a terrible time finding a GP doctor in his town... it was, according to him, much easier to get one here and do Dr appts during or after work...

same guy's wife had back problems or something... she had being seeing people in Canada about it for about 18 months... They needed to do a cat scan or something (I am not medical I just know the story as he repeats it often) and it was going to be 6 months... she can here and saw his doctor who gave her the referral and with that they saw what they needed to do... scheduled a procedure a couple of weeks later...

I know we have excess capacity here compared to southern Ontario... their was a news report about 2 years ago about some procedures being farmed out to hospitals in and around Buffalo due to the wait... it's not terribly common though... otherwise I doubt it would have been on the news...

If you have insurance things aren't really bad here... it's for those who don't have it that things stink...

[belcffub]

31. I know what happened... this was about four years ago...

I can't remember where she was skiing... but the ambulance wouldn't leave until someone got her insurance card... One of the skiers that was with her called the office as they were having a hard time reaching her boyfriend (who is not a skier and did not go on the trip)... one of the guys in the office is a friend of his... when the call came in she was still waiting for whoever was sent to get her insurance card...

she's had medical issues over the years and been in the hospital many times and she did not like the treatment she got there... like I said she still goes on skiing trips (not this year... she broke her hand again) but won't go to canada again...

edited to add... she's not canadian...

[polly7]

34. I can't even imagine that happening. Not a single person I've ever worked with would

even consider such a thing ......... especially with a head injury from a fall, which would have been automatically treated as a possible spinal injury. There's just no way they would wait around. imo.

[belcffub]

42. but it did...

we live in Western NY and we have a couple of canadian co-workers... they did not seem as surprised as you.... but both of them, while being canadian, have chosen you use our insurance plans here due to two issues they seem to have in their hometowns... first having a hard time getting a GP and for one his wife was having back issues... been working the system back home for 18 months... said she needed a cat scan or something like that and it was going to be 6 months... that was what prompted their signing up... had her test and procedure done in a couple of weeks and no more back pain...

so they might be biased...

but my boss (who sits behind me so I just asked again) said that was the way it happened...

[polly7]

67. Ask your boss if she was sure they were real EMS or just kids playing a prank,

because that's about as stupid as believing a trauma pt. with possible head and spinal injury would be left waiting while someone was ordered to go get health information. Time counts. It's not the Paramedic's main focus to ensure insurance documentation ...... it's a bonus, if available, but quite low on the list, actually, even in the case of a relatively minor medical call. As I say, that information is always available later when family / friends follow the unit to the hospital. Trauma calls ALWAYS are a 'load and go'. IF possible and time permits, insurance info is asked once on the road, but it's a minor and often neglected concern when compared to everything else going on.

[belcffub]

76. your really very funny... doesn't mean it her case it didn't happen...

maybe they were having a bad day... I have no idea... perhaps they don't like Americans... I don't know... doesn't mean that was not what happened to her...

are you saying that a case like this has never happened...

[polly7]

77. I'm sorry, I've just never heard of it happening and can't imagine a case where it would.

There is a golden hour within which a pt. with any type of traumatic head injury must be gotten to hospital, the outlook may depend in part on acting fast. An epidural or subdural hematoma, intracerebral bleeding, all have high mortality rates without immediate care. Skull fractures can also lead to brain bleeding .... concussions may lead to swelling and permanent brain damage .... these are all reasons EMS consider any trauma involving the head as an emergency requiring immediate transfer, along with the possibility of spinal injury. It's impossible to know by an assessment or listening to bystander reports what kind of damage has been done. I just can't imagine any situation like that you've described where this would have happened and transfer postponed for insurance documentation while bleeding or swelling may be occurring within the skull. Sorry.

[Swede]

78. Its bullshit.

The ambulance company we put itself into big liability,therefore they would not do it.

[polly7]

79. Yes! Thank you ......there's that, too! nt.

[belcffub]

81. you can think that all you want

doesn't mean it didn't happen...

[Swede]

83. Be careful of your boss,shes' a liar.

nt

[belcffub]

86. doubt it... known her for 15 years

nicest lady you'd ever meet... she's about ready to retire in the next year or so...

[Ikonoklast]

88. Is she imaginary, too?

Just asking based on your other scenarios.

[belcffub]

89. are you?

[Ikonoklast]

92. Thank you for answering my query.

It's all I needed to know.

[belcffub]

97. exactly

[Spazito]

84. and doesn't mean it did either....

one can espouse anything on the internet, doesn't make it true and I find this second hand account less than credible. Adding the 'two Canadians' to your story doesn't make it more credible, it makes it even less so, especially the coincidence those 'two Canadians' are not happy with Canada's system and prefers the U.S. for profit system. Uh huh, right.

[belcffub]

87. and maybe I just know the two Canadians who don't like their health system

like I said Canada is less then a mile from where I'm sitting... my favorite beer is Canadian... my heritage is Canadian (we have a bridge named after us up there)... we travel their often... even honeymooned on PEI right next door to green gables... people laughed when we told them we were going to an Island for our honeymoon and it was North...

what I find funny is anytime someone criticizes Canada's health system it has to be a lie... so it must be perfect then... as all criticism of it is bogus...

edited to add :: one of the Canadians just moved there a year ago... so he is not a good reference... He's Indian (from India Indian) and married a Canadian women... but he kept his insurance here... the two cases I referenced above were the same guy... so I guess maybe I know one guy who doesn't like the system and one guy who is to lazy to change...

[Spazito]

90. LOL, one can criticize the Canadian system and often have Canadians agree...

the system is far from perfect but when someone claims what your post does and then adds the 'two Canadians in your office' who support the contention you put forward, I am sure it is just coincidence there are two Canadians handy to back you up, the credibility of the claim is reduced exponentially.

If one is going to criticize the Canadian system, it is helpful if that criticism has, at the least, some semblance of fact behind it, and I find your criticism, using second hand 'info' lacking in that regard.

[belcffub]

93. Like I said working around WNY

your are bound to work with Canadians... last three jobs have had Canadians available... the only one I knew anything about their insurance was this one... before that I was to young to really care...

you can't deny there is a shortage of GP's in Canada right now... obviously this varies by geographic location to some extent... the other thing he complained about was his wife back injury... and that was just getting her doctor (she still goes to a Canadian Doctor) to do what needed to be done... she came here and a couple of weeks later everything was all set...

obviously no one would give you detail that you would require to prove anything... it's to personal in nature...

your need to crush what are both plausible scenarios that probably do happen shows a general level of insecurity... can't let it go right...

I know what happened... I share an office with my boss and we talked about that for a while... comes up everyone once in a while again... the other guy we walk every day over lunch... we heard about the whole thing in more detail then I'd care for... whats funny is that this sticks in your craw so...

[Spazito]

95. At this point I can only offer this piece of advice...

when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. This post doesn't make your previous posts more credible, it makes it even less so.

I can only hope any conversations occurring in your office include supporting a universal healthcare policy or, at least, supporting 'Obamacare' which, to me, would be of more interest than some supposedly obscure and questionable incident elsewhere.

[belcffub]

80. she was awake and moving around...

her facial injuries were cuts and scratches... she's not hear right now (we share an office) but I think she did need stitches... and a couple of new teeth... she was wearing a helmet...

her biggest injury was to her arm... broke and required surgery... they had it immobilized while she waited for her card... it was about 20-30 minutes for the person to get back... some of that time might have been while they were working on her at the scene but she did have to wait while it was brought back...

[polly7]

82. My cousin walked into a hospital after being thrown over the handlebars on his bike after being hit

by an elderly woman. He was on life-support for three days before he died from his head injury. He also was wearing a helmet. Being awake and responsive means nothing. I can understand that if they asked while at the same time immobilizing her for transfer it might make more sense, but certainly not just waiting around until they got it.

[belcffub]

94. I know nothing about medical stuff

it's not my area of expertise... you have a computer issue let me know... I figured that one post I dropped at the top would be the end of this discussion...

sorry about your cousin but I was just relaying what happened... you can believe it or not but I have no reason to lie... no skin of my nose if you believe me or now...

[polly7]

96. I'm not saying you're lying, I just don't believe the EMS crew waited around for insurance

documentation with a possible head injury, maybe the story you were told wasn't quite accurate. Thank you for the computer help offer.

[Swede]

61. Nope.that's not how it works here,she's lying to you.

nt

[laundry_queen]

27. And that is why private insurance sucks

because it was probably written somewhere in the fine print of the fine print that the fetus wasn't covered in the event of a birth. Now they (the insurance company) are off the hook. If I were that couple, I'd be taking that insurance company to court for misrepresentation if they indeed thought the baby would be covered.

I remember a similar case of a Canadian couple in the US. IIRC, their provincial health care plan kicked in to cover some of the costs. Seems to me like Australia should be paying a bit more of their share as well.

I still think $300 a month for the rest of their lives would be a hardship, but it's something they negotiated with the hospital so I can only guess that they are ok with it.

[Snake Alchemist]

46. Maybe private insurance doesn't want to pay a million dollars?

[laundry_queen]

68. No kidding.

Of course they don't. They will attempt to trick people into buying insurance and continue to refuse to pay out. Hence why private insurance sucks and why health insurance should never be for profit. Duh.

[Spazito]

36. Well, they and their premature baby weren't put out on the curb...

like some in the U.S. have had happen because they didn't have insurance. The infant and the mother received care, three months of care, even though they were NOT covered. Horrors, how dare Canada be so crass as to expect payment for that care and have agreed upon three hundred a month instead of forcing them into bankruptcy, that would never happen in the U.S., right?

[polly7]

39. Exactly. Canada isn't a haven where we taxpayers have volunteered to cover millions of dollars of

health-costs for people who've never paid into it. Our system wouldn't survive long if we did. I don't understand why anyone thinks we should. That said, I feel bad for this couple, and wonder why their own health-care system doesn't cover things like this as we are if we're hospitalized somewhere else. I hope they can work something out to make it easier.

[Spazito]

40. Here's a case that has similarities involving a B.C. couple and the U.S. system...

The couple have a $50,000.00 (fifty thousand dollar) bill for a 5 DAY stay----$10,000.00 a day--- being treated for a blood clot in her leg. As in the Australian story, the woman in this story had also purchased travel insurance but the insurance company refused to pay and the couple are, at least up to the date of the article, are being called by collection agencies.

The reality is we Canadians could land in the same mess as the Australian couple while traveling outside of Canada even if we buy travel insurance.

It has been eye-opening, to say the least.

Here's the link to the B.C. couple's story:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/11/11/bc-travelclaim.html

[polly7]

41. That's a sad situation.

I believe provincial plans vary as to coverage out of country, I always purchase extra insurance but I see how something like this could happen. Thanks for the article Spazito.

[Snake Alchemist]

45. So you're saying that open borders would not work?

This is one of the reasons you need a controlled immigration process.

[Spazito]

49. We are talking about tourists...

not immigration, maybe you missed that even though this is your OP?

Your post makes little sense.

[Snake Alchemist]

50. This seems to apply to all people

"Canada isn't a haven where we taxpayers have volunteered to cover millions of dollars of health-costs for people who've never paid into it."

[Spazito]

52. Again, the topic was tourists not citizens or immigrants...

why do you want to change the focus of your own OP?

[Snake Alchemist]

56. It was a one-off comment based on what occurred to me based on their comment. nt

[polly7]

66. Never mind, others said it better. nt.

[LanternWaste]

51. I think many people try their best to throw their favorite ingredient into any mea

I think many people try their best to throw their favorite ingredient into any meal-- regardless of its irrelevance...

[Spazito]

53. Your point certainly seems to apply in this case...

changing the topic from tourists to immigrants is......interesting, to say the least.

[Occulus]

55. So is the OP's behavior on the Trayvon threads.

Eye-opening, one might say.

[Snake Alchemist]

60. Yeah, wanting to wait for the facts is no longer an acceptable position. The new motto is:

You're either with us, or against us.

[Snake Alchemist]

59. Why not suggest to the Canadian poster that Canada cover all people regardless of citizenship?

It was just a minor thought and never thought it would garner such an uproar.

[Snake Alchemist]

57. Sorry that the posters comments made me think of that. Why not suggest to the poster that

Canada cover all people regardless of citizenship?

[Spazito]

63. Gosh, why not suggest the U.S. cover their own citizens....

first. Canada covers it's own citizens AND doesn't turn away tourists or immigrants without treatment as shown by the article in your OP. The U.S. turns away it's own citizens if they don't have insurance or are under-insured, why is that?

I am sure you are as outraged about that as you are about Canada caring for a tourist and her premature infant. I will look forward to your OP expressing your outrage soon.

[Snake Alchemist]

72. Darn right. Considering my own chronic condition single payer would be a godsend. nt

[Spazito]

74. Great, I look forward to your OP on that! n/t

[polly7]

69. Canada does treat all people regardless of citizenship, exactly as we should.

Last edited Thu Mar 29, 2012, 01:32 PM - Edit history (1)

I stated that we, as taxpayers, shouldn't be expected to cover million dollars in costs for those visiting without being reimbursed in some way.

[Bluenorthwest]

54. Tourists and other guest in EU nations can simply purchase tourist insurance and

take part in the local system. It is pretty cheap, too.

[Spazito]

58. This couple did purchase travel insurance but didn't realize...

it didn't cover the birth or the baby:

"John Kan and Rachel Evans had taken out travel insurance and extra cover for Evans' pregnancy without realizing the policy would not cover birth or the baby."

Unfortunately the companies one buys travel insurance from have a copious amount of 'fine print' and subjective decision-making that is seen more and more to be deceptive and allows them to deny payment after the fact. It is happening to tourists from more than just Australia.

[Snake Alchemist]

62. I have to think that it would be hard for companies to pay a million dollars for just one birth. nt

[Spazito]

65. Hmmm, I can only suggest you research the care and cost of a premature infant...

whose medical condition necessitated a THREE MONTH stay in a neo-natal ward where the infants in that ward require round-the-clock care.

Check those costs in the U.S., you will find it interesting I am sure. But, then again, in the U.S., there would be no certainty the mother in this case would have received the care needed without adequate insurance.

[Snake Alchemist]

71. Does not really address my point.

Paying a million dollars for the birth is something any company would have a hard time doing. That is probably why they specifically do not cover that.

[Spazito]

75. Unless your or anyone else's insurance puts a cap on the dollar amount they will cover...

they cannot claim a cap retroactively, they can negotiate with the hospital re the bill and get it reduced but that's a whole different issue. If you are covered by your insurance for the treatment you receive, the insurance must pay but, as I am sure you know all too well, insurance companies are law unto themselves which is why for-profit insurance is grotesque in it's actions and profits.

[Ikonoklast]

91. More "Canadian Healthcare Bad" propaganda.

And another poster chimes in with the mythical two Canadians that hate their health care plan.

What a fucking joke.




Really reaching there, sport.