General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis message was self-deleted by its author
This message was self-deleted by its author (mahina) on Mon Apr 28, 2014, 02:13 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)when we have stats reflecting millions of americans who got treatmen they wouldn't have (at least not without financial ruin) this country is going to have a collective how the fuck did we allow that moment.
Actually that is when the repubs start claiming they were for the ACA all along.
mahina
(17,739 posts)I remember a prof in peace studies who spoke of institutional violence, and this was just exactly that.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)The latter being bombs, guns, etc. The former being the war among humans done daily. That's institutional violence.
Thanks Obama, for the start of ending this. Many people never understood the long term implications of what has been done, imperfectly against deadly odds. It is already raising expectations of sane treatment of people, mainly the poor.
okaawhatever
(9,478 posts)of people have to get treatment they've been putting off, but after that our nationwide medical costs will go down because we'll catch diseases and cancers much more quickly, we won't have the medical bankruptcies (over 1 million per year), and we'll be less reliant on emergency medicine. There are a lot of benefits to the nation as a whole. If you watch Fox or buy into the Koch commercials you won't know about any of them, but like you said, in a few years they won't be able to deny the wisdom of the changes.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Good point.
eridani
(51,907 posts)If you have a bronze or silver plan, you have a ticket to bankruptcy and homelessness should you ever become part of the 15% that accounts for 85% of all health care costs. So expect health care bankruptcies to go on as usual, with the healthy 85% not giving a shit about the actual sick people
Nobel_Twaddle_III
(323 posts)OffWithTheirHeads
(10,337 posts)ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)Initech
(100,132 posts)High five!
pnwmom
(109,023 posts)especially because people in the highest age category are also most likely to have preexisting conditions, which formerly drove up premiums.
Good for you on how you treated your employee. I'm glad small businesses like yours will never be faced with terrible decisions like that again. And that potential employees won't be forced to chose large companies over small ones based on health insurance alone.
If this wasn't such a tiny community, if I didn't know with certainty that I'd be judged for it, or I would bump into anyone connected to this person again, I can't be sure that I wouldn't do the wrong thing. Running a company that costs almost ever dime we bring in makes tough decisions tougher.
But it is a small community, and I did know I would be judged by my community.
This post wasn't meant to tell you we're so awesome, at all. I kept my mouth shut for a couple of years and just wanted you guys to know what was going on out there.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)He was holding a sign saying he had a stroke and was fired after 17 years.
Was very odd to see this post. Glad your company made a better decision than his.
mahina
(17,739 posts)We kind of had to, but thank you. I think our other employees, also of many years, would have walked out.
They're almost all still here, thank goodness.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)Truly brutal system definitely. ACA helps but much more work yet to be done.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)If you switch agents, but remain with the same insurer, said insurer has all the records and is not going to offer you lower rates. similarly, switching to a new insurance company does not guarantee any savings. The new company would ask to look at the claims record/history with the old insurer (not including identifying names, soc. numbers, etc., - protected by HIPPA). And FYI, if you withhold requested information, or lie about "material" matters on an insurance application, and then put in a claim relative to said information, your claim is not only denied, but the whole policy becomes void "ab initio", i.e, from the beginning.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)I would not be happy with my agent mentioned it, because you know that he/she is mentioning it to others as well. Certainly discuss how costs are impacted, but by discussing it the way they did and making it out to be simply a "business decision" creeps me out. I would want a more ethical representative.
Good for you and your company though, for hanging in when the insurance companies want to make it tough for you to keep your compassion.
deathrind
(1,786 posts)Could not believe the part where corporations where taking life insurance polices out on their own employees. I really can not think of a more devious/evil thing to do. I know corporations are not in business for their workers best interests but this is just beyond evil.
mahina
(17,739 posts)King_Klonopin
(1,307 posts)Sociopathic, antisocial, selfish, soulless people, my friend.
mahina
(17,739 posts)Not today.
King_Klonopin
(1,307 posts)mahina
(17,739 posts)Thank you!
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)I agree. That is why we must have regulations. If corporations will not behave responsibly then they must be forced to behave responsibly.
HeiressofBickworth
(2,682 posts)A friend was diagnosed with cancer which required surgery. She went in, had the procedure done and while she was in the recovery room, her employer advised her that she was fired effective immediately. I was always shocked by the cold-heartedness of this and I truly believe that if they had thought of it sooner, they would have fired her just before surgery. Given that this was the 70's, she had no recourse whatsoever against her employer.
catrose
(5,078 posts)but the company waited until she got home. Then she couldn't get follow-up care and subsequent surgeries. She's always wondered why her boss changed his mind after she'd worked everything out with him before surgery (and how he could be so cruel). I'm guessing insurance agent now.
nikto
(3,284 posts)I need a happy ending here.
RagAss
(13,832 posts)HeiressofBickworth
(2,682 posts)but she was a paralegal with a local major law firm which suffered absolutely no repercussions from what they did. She had no legal recourse against them. She eventually found another job and then I lost track of her so I don't know how everything worked out for her. And yes, I think they fired her on advice from their insurance agent. It's all about the bottom line as they don't give a fig about the individual. It's folly to rely on the good intentions of an employer because they will turn on you when the dollar signs say to do so. Another reason for single-payer insurance -- not having to rely on an employer for insurance.
nikto
(3,284 posts)But it hurt.
I'm with you 100% on Single-Payer.
Hekate
(91,003 posts)... Governor Abercrombie, and all. I bet President Obama would appreciate hearing about it too it's so important.
Me ke aloha pumehana -- you did good.
mahina
(17,739 posts)Thanks sis, I kind of had to, or would have been shamed, but mahalo!
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)You were humane and human and kind and real. You give the rest of us hope.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)K&R
mahina
(17,739 posts)It was a very pointed convo, and he got the word. He also told us that our rates could go over 1k per person per month. Fortunately that didn't happen.
Exposethefrauds
(531 posts)Crap like that needs to go viral.
My company for the last couple of years keeps bring up how we are spending more on claims then on premiums and the company is now encouraging people to not use their insurance when they go to the Dr now to save money on premiums.
Doubtful they will drop the insurance, if they did almost everyone would quit and the company would go out of business. The benefits have to be competitive else they would not be able to hire people to do the work because all the competitors have at least the same benefits.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)For those of you playing along on the mainland, one insurer, Hawaii Medical Service Association (HMSA), controls about 70% of the market -- and Kaiser has most of the rest. So you can well imagine how brutal they can be.
ashling
(25,771 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Stuart G
(38,455 posts)DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)Pretty sure that would have destroyed your company in the resultant lawsuit.
mahina
(17,739 posts)Of course we're not lawyers, not ma'a with how to find laws and read them. I know how many inches we need to keep clear for accessibility but did not know this.
I'm glad to hear it and will look into this, and share this info. Mahalos.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)The ADA prohibits businesses from discriminating in the work place, but I don't believe it applies to firing an employee who becomes too ill to work at all. That's why individuals and/or employers can purchase short-term and/or long-term disability insurance; and/or put in a claim for SSDI with the govt. And re that type of insurance, my daughter was on 18 month disability leave for a major case of Lyme's disease. Her short-term carrier paid up with no questions. But when she'd exhausted the time limits for short-term and made a claim to the different insurance carrier which handled long-term coverage, she was summarily turned down and we had to find an attorney who specializes in disability cases. Because the policy was provided by her employer as a work benefit, and not purchased by her individually, it comes under ERISA, and all cases must go to federal court for non-jury (bench) trials.
Turns out her carrier, Liberty Mutual, denies ALL long term disability claims, and forces insureds to sue them in federal court. And Liberty Mutual delay doing that as long as possible by filing documents at the last possible moment, getting months long extensions from the courts, "losing" records sent by the plaintiff's doctors, - every damn trick in the book to stall and delay.
The federal judges heartily dislike these cases because, without juries, the judges are the finders of fact and have to wade through volumes of medical reports, expert reports, etc. Consequently, at least in our federal district court in Pennsylvania, the judges put so much pressure on the parties to mediate/settle that no recent cases have gone to trial. I asked the attorney what kind of settlements were reached, and he said about 20 cents on the dollar. And it takes years to finally receive any payments. Every time I see one of those warm and fuzzy Liberty Mutual ads on tv, I want to hurl.
On edit: FYI, I'm a retired attorney who used to handle insurance cases for property damage/personal injury - but NOT disability claims - that's a specialty, which is why I found an atty. for my daughter to handle her case. So I understand general principles of insurance law, at least as it was up until the time I retired. However, the law is always changing, either by legislation of new/amended statutes or by appellate decisions. Your employee should have applied for social security disability.
nikto
(3,284 posts)Good on you.
Know you know what a REAL Death-Panel is (insurance company suits).
The word must be spread.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Thank you for doing what every employer should do, but most don't.
mahina
(17,739 posts)but to share what a lousy system we all had before.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)But you chose to be part of the solution, instead of part of the problem. That is something truly selfless. Your kindness is what deserves thanks.
spanone
(135,921 posts)Iwillnevergiveup
(9,298 posts)I wish you would send this story to Michael Moore. His movie "Sicko" is several years old now, but I still think he'd like to read about this. And please accept my thanks and admiration for what you did for your employee. He's undoubtedly also your friend.