Ya Know polichick... I Think You Are Absolutely Correct...

[WillyT]

Team v. Policy/Philosophy.

There was a time where the two were inseparable.

Old man fought in WWII, survived, got GI Benefits, went to college, got married, started a family, moved to the suburbs, and created the Middle Class.

Knew what a real depression was like, fought fascism, and was rewarded if he won, and lived.

Many of their kids sat on their laps and listened to their stories, watched their favorite movies, and got a good sense of right and wrong.

And they supported Unions, and the Democratic Party.

We came out of centuries of being abused by the Aristocracy, and in 1776... fought back.

We have been fighting our own Aristocracy ever since.

The fight continues, and I choose not to give in to them.

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Ohmigod! You mentioned the word "union"!!!

Please delete this post, I hope that none of our friends at Fox News have read this yet.

I. Am. A. Democrat.

Regards,

TWM

[WillyT]

2. You Kidder, You...

[Pholus]

3. Bingo!

The old man completely shaped my attitude towards life. And most of his stories were about who the boss was. He had a boss he'd have died for after the other local business owners complained the boss paid his people too much. His reply? I'd rather give it to them than to make them desperate enough to steal it from me. Cauise they need to be able to take care of their families, one way or the other.

You simply DO NOT hear that from our "betters" these days. They are all like "You don't like our pennies? Get a better job."

[Sarah Ibarruri]

4. WillyT, this has nothing to do with team, philosophy, heroism, etc.

It seems to me that some people have entered a sort of zone within which they view themselves as infinitely heroic, incredibly moral, and amazingly Nathan Hale-ish: "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country!" sort of thing. Truth is, there's nothing heroic about it. Either WE ALL band together to vote out the GOP plague we've had on our backs (for 33 years) out of power, or we'll continue in the status quo, same shit, different day, as has been the case for 33 years of them being in control, and of the country holding tremendously extremist Neo-Con views.

By attacking SOME of the enemies of the GOP, and refusing to vote for them because you have some magical idea that you will change the country that way, it will weaken YOU and the country, and strengthen the GOP. In fact, it's done that already. And don't give me any of that, "BUT MY PRINCIPLES!!" No heroics come into play here, as warm and fuzzy as you might find them to be. You're not Mother Teresa, and I'm not Mother Teresa.

When all is said and done, we are all in the same boat. To poke holes in the boat we're in because it's not a PERFECT boat, and is not the EXACT boat you envision right at this moment, is nothing short of naive and INSANE since it's THE ONLY BOAT YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW. Maybe in some distant future, sure, we might have other strong parties, but right now - WE DO NOT.

You don't climb K2 by sprouting imaginary wings and thinking of yourself as a bird. You hike it a little bit at a time, beating the elements, together, as a group.

[WillyT]

5. And If You Think Members Of YOUR Own Team Are Poking Holes In Their/Your Own Boat ???

Sarah... I HAVE ALWAYS HAD MORE VENOM...

For those who I thought were on my side, and betrayed me, than the ones I knew were my enemy.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

8. WillyT, I get it. I tend to be like that too, you know. It shows sometimes, too, unfortunately

It's lots easier to get angry with those on your side than with the enemy. LOTS easier. Giving a pass to the enemy is sooo much easier. And it requires almost no effort to channel the anger to the people on your side. And yeah, we all want things as we want them, and we want them all right now, particularly nowadays that everyone wants things to be accomplished instantly. But life doesn't work that way. Never has. Never will. And there IS strength in numbers. And once you topple the enemy, you have the road clearer to do what you need to. But you must topple the enemy first, not refuse to participate first. Where there's one side threatening, and the other side is busy nitpicking, and some refusing to participate, they will be the side to die.

[WillyT]

9. Thank You For That... Sincerely... But...

(I've always loved the hesitative 'But'...)



On the serious side, and I'm way guilty of the infighting too, but certain threads that deal with electoral importance, get dropped like a stone for all the bickering...

Example: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024755031

Normally we can all multi-task... lately though, we are all dancing around the campfire in our warpaint.

Yet... I believe it will exhaust itself, relatively soon.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

10. Good! And no ifs, ands, or BUTTS! :) nt

[WillyT]

11. :)

[delrem]

14. Joseph Isadore "Joe" Lieberman. Whose "side" was he on? nt

[JaneyVee]

6. I agree, BUT....

Instead of this being used for divisiveness, it should be used for unity. Both sides serve such an enormous purpose to our common goals. The team goes to great lengths to shut down the Republican party while the policy side goes to great lengths to hold our party's principles and politicians feet to the fire. Although personally I believe most in our party are a combination of both sides. Not mutually exclusive.

[WillyT]

7. THANK YOU !!!

I've been getting... (lol) negativity for so long because it was interpreted as bashing.

It was meant as, "are you fucking kidding me ???"

And while I can see the confusion...

Staunch, Lifelong, Democrat...

For the 11,000th time.

[marble falls]

12. I won't give up until they remove the Bill of Rights from my cold dead hand.

[WillyT]

13. Nicely Done !!

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. When BASIC principles taught in POLI SCI courses

are poo poed, I give up.

Well, I gave up a while ago.

But you knew that.

This shit called coalition building is even stranger if basic meta analysis is "divisive."

[polichick]

16. "Team v. Policy/Philosophy. There was a time where the two were inseparable."

True. Having a team made it possible to win - and we knew what we were winning.

But with too much team-think, policies have been allowed to steadily march to the right - so that even when "we" win; we, the people, lose.

[WillyT]

17. Agreed !!! - And Thank You For Your Posts !!!

[WillyT]

18. One More Time... With Feeling...