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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe United States Is Cruel, Inhuman and Degrading to the Poor, U.N. Report Charges
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/un-human-rights-committee-united-states-cruel-inhuman-and-degrading-poorJerome Murdough, a 56-year-old, mentally-ill homeless veteran, was just trying to stay alive during a New York City cold snap when he thought he found his spot: a stairwell leading to a roof in a Harlem public housing project.
But that desperate act set in motion a nightmare ride through New York's criminal justice system that would end with Murdough dying of heat stroke in a Riker's Island jail cell. New York officials now say the system failed Murdough every which way.
When he was discovered, he should have been offered shelter. When he was arraigned, he should not have been slapped with $2500 bail. When, unable to make bail, he ended up in jail, Murdough, because he was on medication for a mental condition, should have been monitored every 15 minutes, not left unwatched for at least four hours. It was during that untended time that Murdough, as an official told the Associated Press, "basically baked to death."
Now, as New York officials discuss "the tragedy" of last month and scapegoat one Riker's Island guard for Murdough's death suspending him for 20 days the United Nations has taken notice. Murdough, the latest statistic in a series of needless deaths of homeless people while under arrest for "crimes" related to being unhoused, such as loitering or trespassing, was also the last straw.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)malaise
(269,182 posts)The problem with pointing fingers at other countries re human rights and cruel and unusual punishment is that three fingers are staring straight back at the US and the rest of the world knows that.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)duhneece
(4,118 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)calimary
(81,507 posts)harun
(11,348 posts)also that this system is just cruel. It tolerates tremendous cruelty for the purposes of profit.
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)LuvNewcastle
(16,858 posts)bkanderson76
(266 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)Of course, alternet seems to have a goal of only reporting the bad things the US does. Sure, this was wrong and someone needs to be held accountable by much more than a suspension, and you can find other examples, but is it a big surprise that the US has a statement against it coming from a group that includes such bastions of freedom and equality as Russia, China, PAkistan and Venezuela?
eShirl
(18,504 posts)It is the world's only free country, after all.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)in a lot of respects. Deal with it.
7962
(11,841 posts)I said we had problems. And we have people march in the streets when shit gets publicized. And things get changed. No, not everything but things get changed.
Some of these other countries on the council make abuse and discrimination official national policy.
The UN is a joke. It cant really accomplish anything of any substance without the involvement of the US or countries like England, France & Japan anyway. Let them put out all the declarations and reports they want.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)And we should always criticize human rights abuses, no matter where they occur. Including here.
Just don't pretend "abuse and discrimination" are somehow the exception in American society. History, past and present, does not bear that out at all.
7962
(11,841 posts)JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)We're supposed to climb on a moral high horse because we're among the best of the worst?
I'm sure you've had no ends of things to climb on it for if that's your metric, nice to be better than SOMEONE I guess.
malaise
(269,182 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)then fail to live up to them. Yes these other countries are terrible at human rights but if we act the same way who is going to call them out?
If you want to lead you have to live up to the standards you are trying to lead by. Something we have not done for a long time now.
GoCubsGo
(32,094 posts)Take the log out of your own eye before you worry about the branch in your neighbor's eye.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)bobduca
(1,763 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)It's a legitimate report that we should accept and use to make us even better than we were before.
I agree, we're 'better' than most countries in these matters but there's nothing wrong with outdistancing them even more.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)but what was that you were saying about freedom and equality?
Russia - ranked 8
China - ranked 124
Pakistan - ranked 209
Venezuela - ranked 84
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)But I'm all for letting out any non violent drug offender. I bet that would drop the number significantly.
frylock
(34,825 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)people.
As I pointed out in another post on this thread, there are a lot of mansions in the Los Angeles area -- huge, extravagant places. Now, wealth that is earned is fine. But wealth is earned thanks to gifts, often superior mental capacity that is a gift at birth. The wealthy credit themselves for using their gifts wisely and then they sit back and enjoy their profits.
But here is a man who did not receive the gift of the mental capacity to take care of himself. Is iut really too much to ask that person who received great gifts including most likely a great mental capacity to alleviate the suffering of someone whose gifts were less useful for earning a living?
As long as there is one homeless person, one hungry person, one needy person, people who have gifts, especially the gift of the ability to earn wealth, are responsible for the death and suffering of that homeless or hungry or needy person. This is more true of the mentally ill than of any other group in our country. They must be respected and cared for.
I am disgusted by the thought of the Ryan budget. I worked raising funds for a homeless project for about eight years (a week or so short). The best source of money, the only source of money big enough to help all the homeless people in this country is government money. The private foundations give, but homelessness is rarely one of their top priorities. The challenge of homelessness cannot be met by individual donations. The cost is too high. The Ryan budget does not face that reality. In my opinion, those individuals in Congress who do not adequately fund homeless projects and other programs for the homeless are personally responsible for the deaths of homeless people as are the very wealthy who pay more for gardeners and nannies than they do to help the homeless and hungry.
For shame.
Matthew 25:35-40 (New International Version)
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Matthew 25:35-40
New International Version (NIV)
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.
37 Then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?
40 The King will reply, Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2025:35-40
"Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."
Apparently, Paul Ryan's form of Christianity does not include Jesus' words on caring for the poor. What a cruel, cruel man.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Bahrain, Uganda, Uzbekistan, Qatar not to mention our allies in South America, eg, Pinochet among a whole host of Dictators we supported as they murdered and tortured their own people.
Chavez began the change from Western supported Dictators, to democratically elected government, and we haven't forgiven him for that or the rest of Latin America, now beginning the process of prosecuting THEIR former War Criminals, OUR allies, for the murders, disappearances, torture and incarceration (the lucky ones) their dictatorships succeeded in doing ONLY because of the help they got from the Western nations, led by the US.
Any idea why we always support DICTATORS?
7962
(11,841 posts)Who will prosecute the criminals in the current Venezuelan government?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)nations at all btw? The people of the UK are at least working on holding THEIR war criminals accountable. As they should. Blair, another liar and war criminal. Nice allies we have.
Who will prosecute the Right Wing traitors in Venezuela? Hopefully they will be prosecuted as soon as possible by the legitimately elected Democratic Government they are trying to topple illegally. And hopefully they will be held responsible for ALL their attempts, going back to the Bush backed in 2002.
And since you asked, who will prosecute OUR War Crimiinals and Torturers? Last I heard Bush/Cheney and their band of war criminals are still roaming free. Hopefully, as in Latin America, they WILL be prosecuted for the death and destruction they caused to so very many innocent people.
7962
(11,841 posts)EVERY major country has their own sack of rocks to carry for previous mistakes.
Nice how you skirt the issue of the criminals in the CURRENT Venezuelan government. Because you dont think what they're doing and have done IS a crime. You just keep calling them the "elected government". Well, Bush was elected twice. We're not too fond of him and his actions, are we?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)government. I did not skirt the issue of the criminals in Venezuela, I believe I specifically mentioned them. Nice how YOU ignored that isssue though.
7962
(11,841 posts)Cant wait to see your posts after the country fails. I'm sure you'll blame it on the US, or the Kochs, or the CIA or aliens. Everything and anyone but the ridiculous government policies.
Sad, its a beautiful place. But they'll rebound.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)It's much more than that. There is a streak of meanness and callous cruelty that runs through this country. The poor and homeless are dehumanized and demonized day after day by people on Fox News. The urge toward kindness and compassion is mocked day after day by conservative talk radio and by politicians from the right.
I've seen homeless people and the homeless population treated cruelly, shamefully and heartlessly.
Pointing at the UNHRC or at Russia and China doesn't do anything. It's not their problem, it's ours.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Alternet is a wonderful source of information.
7962
(11,841 posts)Reads more like it was written by Glen Beck.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Beck suggested that Obama was a commie because he had "Czars" in his administration. I do not favor such idiocy.
The President deserves scrutiny and criticism. The only way we can move him away from Third Way influence is to criticize policy like the TPP.
If we had said nothing, Chained CPI would be on the agenda. If we had said nothing perhaps we would have been engaged in Syria.
Overseas
(12,121 posts)Then the protest against a similar killing in Albuquerque was broken up with tear gas.
How are we going to change this ever increasing violence?
ProSense
(116,464 posts)http://election.democraticunderground.com/10024731746
gtar100
(4,192 posts)Such ideas are the product of sick minds. They have turned Christianity on its head.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)LeftishBrit
(41,212 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)"cruel, inhuman and degrading" comes up a lot.
Paragraph 19 is specifically about treatment of the homeless:
Criminalization of homelessness
19. While appreciating the steps taken by federal and some state and local authorities to address homelessness, the Committee is concerned about reports of criminalization of people living on the street for everyday activities such as eating, sleeping, sitting in particular areas etc. The Committee notes that such criminalization raises concerns of discrimination and cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment (arts. 2, 7, 9, 17, and 26).
The State party should engage with state and local authorities to: (a) abolish criminalization of homelessness laws and policies at state and local levels; (b) ensure close cooperation between all relevant stakeholders including social, health, law enforcement and justice professionals at all levels to intensify efforts to find solutions for the homeless in accordance with human rights standards; and (c) offer incentives for decriminalization and implementation of such solutions, including by providing continued financial support to local authorities implementing alternatives to criminalization and withdrawing funding for local authorities criminalizing the homeless.
right on the money
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)mountain grammy
(26,655 posts)Our justice system is a nightmare.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)mountain grammy
(26,655 posts)Now we change the system.
SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)Cuts, cuts, and more cuts. Cut food stamps. Cut unemployment. Screw the poor. That's their stance on the less fortunate. And they brag about it all the time. I just read part of Paul Ryans budget plan for the next 10 years. It includes even more cuts to the less fortunate. Talk about your death panels. The GOP is creating them on a daily basis. Get out and vote in November and lets destroy the GOP.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)The larger problem is our general policy of "fiscal conservatism" - not that massive corporate welfare, for instance, is all that conservative in reality.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)I kid.
I would like nothing more than to destroy the Republican Party and their benefactors.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)"Feed my sheep," said Jesus.
"Cut FOOD STAMPS!" say the Rightwingers.
Which action do Christians believe we should take?
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Or course that's woefully inadequate to the problem, not to mention they can pretty much turn away whoever they want.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)I get that means they can use the bible to get into our bedrooms, but ignore it when it comes to social programs.
I know this already, I just like to remind myself
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)It is barbaric how we treat the homeless. The CJ system was not designed to deal with the homeless, it should be out of their jurisdiction. We need health and welfare workers out on the streets helping the homeless imo.
Sounds like an entire group of people were so negligent, it should bring up criminal charges. The UN noticed, thankfully somebody did...the homeless are just bodies to step over with the Wall Street crowd.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I see the mansions in many areas of Los Angeles. Nothing wrong with being rich. Nothing wrong with the mansions. But, for God's sake, if you have a huge mansion and a mentally ill or unemployed person is suffering on the street, you and those enjoying wealth like yours have an obligation to share enough of your money, enough of your good luck, enough of the benefits you have received from the talents and abilities that God gave you with the very poor.
Why? Because you are a human being and you share that precarious position not just with those wealthier than you but with those poorer than you.
I walk past houses in the LA area with large gardens that are groomed by hired gardeners, and I think that the people who live in those houses probably spend more just to care for their garden every month than a good number of people in LA have to live on. Something is wrong with that.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)You learn very quickly that this country doesn't give a fuck about you, and will summarily blame you for all of your troubles.
If you don't have enough troubles, America will kindly give you some more.
We're pretty good with cruel callousness here. It's a viable American business model.
Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)The more things change, the more they stay the same.
SunSeeker
(51,725 posts)That hatred seems to have been brought over by the Puritans, who saw poverty as a moral failing.
840high
(17,196 posts)Pakid
(478 posts)It not all of us just the one who help to put Republican in power and the Republican politicians themselves since they are the most evil, greedy SOB I have ever seen. Get rid of them and America would improve a whole hell of a lot
this is one more indicator that the 'American dream' is no longer redeemable for those other than the 1%. It will be given minimum coverage in the national news because as a society we are taught to undervalue social indicators and to highly value individualism and the ability to accumulate wealth above all else.
To illustrate why the American dream is no longer valid go to the online CIA fact book and see where the US ranks compared to the other countries of the world on statistics such as educational expenditures/ (5.4%GDP/63rd per rest of world); children under the age of 5 underweight = 1.3% and 129 per rest of the world; and life expectancy at birth/42nd compared to the rest of the world - among others.
CIA Fact book with statistics of the US
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html
Nanjing to Seoul
(2,088 posts)maybe even worse because of the hypocrisy involved? NO!!! I can't accept.
****fingers in ears****
Lalalalalalalalalalala! Happy thoughts. We're Americans. We're exceptional! We're the greatest country ever formed in the history of forever!
Lalalalalalalalalalalala!!!!! Oooo, look. . .American Idol is on. . .Bill O'Reilly, convince me it's just the liberals! Convince me it's not me! I'm perfect because I'm an apple pie loving, God fearing, blue blooded American!
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)elzenmahn
(904 posts)First, Putin's critique of "American Exceptionalism".
Then, Pope Francis' critiques of Unchecked Corporate Power and Capitalism.
Now, this.
The international community is getting bolder, and less afraid to speak their minds about Our Exceptional Country. A sign of waning American influence, if you ask me.
And perhaps, considering what the report describes above, well-deserved.
mackerel
(4,412 posts)when it comes to identifying those who need behavioral health services but unfortunately the criminal justice system seems
to pick and choose by the day who they want to attend to and help. They've all done there educational hours on the mentally ill and the homeless but they only get it right about half the time. It's so frustrating trying to get these guys on SSI because even the SSA and the ALJ's ignore the fact the they meet the listing. They fecking meet the listing!
Solly Mack
(90,787 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)There is no excuse for this. None.