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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsObama provided evidence of Bush's torture program to the Senate, and Obama is covering up torture?
The CIA and Senate are in a battle over documents related to an ongoing torture investigation, and people want the most important issue to be "OMG, Obama coverup," not the investigation.
Consider the timeline and the facts.
The removals happened in 2010. It's not hard to believe that there are people at the CIA who don't want this information to come out.
Reading into Senator Feinstein's statement and the timeline: Brennan wasn't head of the CIA when the documents were removed, but interestingly he lost out on the position in Obama's first term because of his support for torture.
Feinstein:
To say the least, this is puzzling. How can the CIAs official response to our study stand factually in conflict with its own Internal Review?
Heads will likely roll at the CIA at the conclusion of an investigation into the removal of the documents. It's likely there could be criminal charges. Still, the main purpose of this trampling on the separation of powers is an attempt to hide Bush's torture program.
The report, if as damaging as Feinstein states, should result in war crime prosecutions.
Now here is a key point: The most sought-after documents on torture, ones the CIA is desperate to keep from the public, were created/turned over by Leon Panetta.
Feinstein:
On March 5, 2009, the committee voted 14-1 to initiate a comprehensive review of the CIA Detention and Interrogation Program. Immediately, we sent a request for documents to all relevant executive branch agencies, chiefly among them the CIA.
The committees preference was for the CIA to turn over all responsive documents to the committees office, as had been done in previous committee investigations.
Director Panetta proposed an alternative arrangement: to provide literally millions of pages of operational cables, internal emails, memos, and other documents pursuant to the committees document requests at a secure location in Northern Virginia. We agreed, but insisted on several conditions and protections to ensure the integrity of this congressional investigation.
Per an exchange of letters in 2009, then-Vice Chairman Bond, then-Director Panetta, and I agreed in an exchange of letters that the CIA was to provide a stand-alone computer system with a network drive segregated from CIA networks for the committee that would only be accessed by information technology personnel at the CIAwho would not be permitted to share information from the system with other (CIA) personnel, except as otherwise authorized by the committee.
It was this computer network that, notwithstanding our agreement with Director Panetta, was searched by the CIA this past January, and once before which I will later describe.
<...>
There are several reasons why the draft summary of the Panetta Review was brought to our secure spaces at the Hart Building.
Let me list them:
The significance of the Internal Review given disparities between it and the June 2013 CIA response to the committee study. The Internal Panetta Review summary now at the secure committee office in the Hart Building is an especially significant document as it corroborates critical information in the committees 6,300-page Study that the CIAs official response either objects to, denies, minimizes, or ignores.
Unlike the official response, these Panetta Review documents were in agreement with the committees findings. Thats what makes them so significant and important to protect.
When the Internal Panetta Review documents disappeared from the committees computer system, this suggested once again that the CIA had removed documents already provided to the committee, in violation of CIA agreements and White House assurances that the CIA would cease such activities.
As I have detailed, the CIA has previously withheld and destroyed information about its Detention and Interrogation Program, including its decision in 2005 to destroy interrogation videotapes over the objections of the Bush White House and the Director of National Intelligence. Based on the information described above, there was a need to preserve and protect the Internal Panetta Review in the committees own secure spaces.
Now, the Relocation of the Internal Panetta Review was lawful and handled in a manner consistent with its classification. No law prevents the relocation of a document in the committees possession from a CIA facility to secure committee offices on Capitol Hill. As I mentioned before, the document was handled and transported in a manner consistent with its classification, redacted appropriately, and it remains securedwith restricted accessin committee spaces.
<...>
I also want to reiterate to my colleagues my desire to have all updates to the committee report completed this month and approved for declassification. Were not going to stop. I intend to move to have the findings, conclusions and the executive summary of the report sent to the president for declassification and release to the American people. The White House has indicated publicly and to me personally that it supports declassification and release.
- more -
http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=db84e844-01bb-4eb6-b318-31486374a895
If people are going to claim that Obama is responsible for the CIA removing documents, then why isn't Obama responsible for Panetta providing them in the first place?
What's the theory: Obama gave the Senate the documents so they could confirm torture, and then took them back?
If the President wanted to cover up the issue, there would be no investigation, and no Internal Panetta Review. Anything from the CIA would be cleansed of any damaging evidence. That is clearly not the case.
The issue is who at the CIA engaged in this behavior. People are throwing around Feinstein's and Udall's names to make this about the President when both have reiterated that he fully supports declassifying the report.
By Greg Miller
The Senate on Thursday voted to confirm Caroline Krass as CIA general counsel...Her confirmation had been held up in part by lawmakers angered by the ongoing dispute between the CIA and the Senate Intelligence Committee over committees investigation of the agencys use of harsh interrogation techniques after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
During her confirmation hearing in December, Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) voted against Krasss nomination and accused the CIA of refusing to turn over an internal review of the interrogation program ordered by former agency Director Leon E. Panetta. He also pushed for a statement from President Obama indicating support for declassifying the committees 6,200-page interrogation report. Obama did so Wednesday, apparently clearing the way for Thursdays vote to confirm Krass.
Udall let Krass's confirmation move forward Thursday, but he called for new leadership in the CIA's general counsel's office.
"We need to correct the record on the CIA's coercive detention and interrogation program and declassify the Senate Intelligence Committee's exhaustive study of it, Udall said in a statement. "I released my hold on Caroline Krass's nomination today and voted for her to help change the direction of the agency....The president has stated an unequivocal commitment to supporting the declassification of the Senate Intelligence Committee's report. Coloradans expect me to hold him to his word."
- more -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/03/13/senate-confirms-caroline-krass-as-cia-general-counsel/
Roll call: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=2&vote=00076
ProSense
(116,464 posts)questionseverything
(9,656 posts)The White House Has Been Covering Up the Presidencys Role in Torture for Years
By Marcy Wheeler
The / / Intercept
Mar 13, 2014, 4:18 PM EDT
The fight between the CIA and the Senate Intelligence Committee over the Committees Torture Report which Dan Froomkin covered here has now zeroed in on the White House.
Did the White House order the CIA to withdraw 920 documents from a server made available to Committee staffers, as Senator Dianne Feinstein says the agency claimed in 2010? Were those documents perhaps thousands of them pulled in deference to a White House claim of executive privilege, as Senator Mark Udall and then CIA General Counsel Stephen Preston suggested last fall? And is the White House continuing to withhold 9,000 pages of documents without invoking privilege, as McClatchy reported yesterday?
We can be sure about one thing: The Obama White House has covered up the Bush presidencys role in the torture program for years. Specifically, from 2009 to 2012, the administration went to extraordinary lengths to keep a single short phrase, describing President Bushs authorization of the torture program, secret.
......................
Some time before October 29, 2009, then National Security Advisor Jim Jones filed an ex parte classified declaration with the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, in response to a FOIA request by the ACLU seeking documents related to the torture program. In it, Jones argued that the CIA should not be forced to disclose the source of the CIAs authority, as referenced in the title of a document providing Guidelines for Interrogations and signed by then CIA Director George Tenet. That document was cited in two Justice Department memos at issue in the FOIA. Jones claimed that source of authority constituted an intelligence method that needed to be protected
ProSense
(116,464 posts)That's the basis of the theory I mentioned in the OP.
questionseverything
(9,656 posts)you pretending he has not shielded bush co until now does not help him
//////////////
The White House Has Been Covering Up the Presidencys Role in Torture for Years.
Obama called on the former general chairman of the RNC to stop Spain's investigation of US torture crimes.
WikiLeaks: How U.S. tried to stop Spain's torture probe
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/12/25/105786/wikileaks-how-us-tried-to-stop.html
MIAMI It was three months into Barack Obama's presidency, and the administration -- under pressure to do something about alleged abuses in Bush-era interrogation policies -- turned to a Florida senator to deliver a sensitive message to Spain:
Don't indict former President George W. Bush's legal brain trust for alleged torture in the treatment of war on terror detainees, warned Mel Martinez on one of his frequent trips to Madrid. Doing so would chill U.S.-Spanish relations.
US embassy cables: Don't pursue Guantánamo criminal case, says Spanish attorney general
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/202776?INTCMP=SRCH
6. (C) As reported in SEPTEL, Senator Mel Martinez, accompanied by the Charge d'Affaires, met Acting FM Angel Lossada during a visit to the Spanish MFA on April 15. Martinez and the Charge underscored that the prosecutions would not be understood or accepted in the U.S. and would have an enormous impact on the bilateral relationship. The Senator also asked if the GOS had thoroughly considered the source of the material on which the allegations were based to ensure the charges were not based on misinformation or factually wrong statements. Lossada responded that the GOS recognized all of the complications presented by universal jurisdiction, but that the independence of the judiciary and the process must be respected. The GOS would use all appropriate legal tools in the matter. While it did not have much margin to operate, the GOS would advise Conde Pumpido that the official administration position was that the GOS was "not in accord with the National Court." Lossada reiterated to Martinez that the executive branch of government could not close any judicial investigation and urged that this case not affect the overall relationship, adding that our interests were much broader, and that the universal jurisdiction case should not be viewed as a reflection of the GOS position.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"you pretending he has not shielded bush co until now does not help him "
...keep "pretending" that this didn't happen:
Like I said, the most sought-after documents on torture, ones the CIA is desperate to keep from the public, were created/turned over by Leon Panetta.
questionseverything
(9,656 posts)but that does not change the fact the potus stopped bush/co prosecutions here and abroad
he has got to reverse that and pretending it did not happen is not going to work
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"i have defended panetta on these boards for that reason"
...was appointed by Obama. It's completely illogical to accuse Obama of covering up torture because the CIA is a part of the Executive branch while ignoring that Obama's own CIA director turned over the very information that Feinstein says went missing.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)Provide documents at a CIA office where they can easily hack the computers they gave you to work with. Great idea. What could possibly go wrong...that wasn't planned to.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Provide documents at a CIA office where they can easily hack the computers they gave you to work with. Great idea. What could possibly go wrong...that wasn't planned to. "
...that theory is absurd.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)mopinko
(70,113 posts)thx
Evidently, facts aren't as valuable as they used to be.
Rumold
(69 posts)war crimes are still being committed, today.
in his defense, obama is just following orders.
although it is a weak defense.
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)This is the shot that wasn't heard at all by Pro.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Oooops!!! This is the shot that wasn't heard at all by Pro."
...waiting for someone to come along and agree with the absurd. Congratulations.
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)read the paragraphs that talk about "war crimes."
ProSense
(116,464 posts)WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)doesn't make you an expert on these matters. It just makes you one of them...
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"doesn't make you an expert on these matters."
...posting silly a video clip doesn't change nonsense into facts.
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)Response to ProSense (Reply #59)
WhaTHellsgoingonhere This message was self-deleted by its author.
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)classified document was missing, wouldn't that legally give them the authority to investigate it's disappearance? We have to remember, until it was investigated they wouldn't have known Feinstein took it. I know the CIAs charter doesn't allow them to work in the US but I believe they're cleared for something like this (it was their computer and they likely had info the doc was downloaded). I mean the crappy thing here is that a classified document went missing, so they may get away with this.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)classified document was missing, wouldn't that legally give them the authority to investigate it's disappearance? We have to remember, until it was investigated they wouldn't have known Feinstein took it. I know the CIAs charter doesn't allow them to work in the US but I believe they're cleared for something like this (it was their computer and they likely had info the doc was downloaded). I mean the crappy thing here is that a classified document went missing, so they may get away with this.
...by the Senate came via the CIA, which later removed them from the system. I doubt the CIA can get out of this now that it's public.
mopinko
(70,113 posts)cuz, looking forward in public is prolly a smart thing to do if you plan to build a case against the spooks.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)Iliyah
(25,111 posts)Facts don't matter especially with some here on the DU. I think Cheney and cronies might be a wee bit worried. That's why all this Benghazi and IRS scandal is being kept alive. Pres O and his administration will handle this the best way they can but y'all should know that total bullshit blaming have already begun against them.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)I'm surprised Issa isn't all over this.
ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)Seriously, this is TPM-quality material you have here.
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
Hekate
(90,708 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)tofuandbeer
(1,314 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)Cha
(297,275 posts)read it.. 'cause you know..
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)blue blue shill
spouting!
It can't be true if Obama isn't the bad guy.
Cha
(297,275 posts)"group think".. when they're right in the middle of their little group
Whisp
ProSense
(116,464 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)I wish someone would rip every single penny of the trillions away from them in their Empires they set-up in Dubai and the middle east.
That is Americas money they swindled away. Their hands are covered with blood from thousands of deaths and thousands of tortured people. The only good thing is Father time will catch up to them.
They should be sent to those countries for trial or go live there in Dubai with Cheney.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)them aside. Why the hell didn't they used them???
<The CIA started making documents available electronically to the committee staff at the CIA leased facility in mid-2009. The number of pages ran quickly to the thousands, tens of thousands, the hundreds of thousands, and then into the millions. The documents that were provided came without any index, without organizational structure. It was a true document dump that our committee staff had to go through and make sense of.>
<Second, when the staff found a document that was particularly important or that might be referenced in our final report, they would often print it or make a copy of the file on their computer so they could easily find it again. There are thousands of such documents in the committees secure spaces at the CIA facility.>
Some people walk away with hundreds of thousands of documents and so-called professionals didn't....interesting.
librechik
(30,674 posts)of BUSH SRs CIA and BUSH JRs Justice Department? Obama hasn't been able to do anything in that area except Holder--the weakest AG, well ever?
It was a coup, and Obama is the puppet president. Not his fault, trying to stay alive, no doubt. Wake up everybody, it's not "America" anymore.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)At the least we must try to never allow anyone associated with those criminals back into our Gov. That includes any bush, jeb. Even that younger one who is in office now?his 'betters' will take advantage of his office. That gang are pros at squandering our Federal/state dollars and moving them into their private for profit pockets. America can't afford to be swindled.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Obama wanted to claim that he released a bajillion documents and the the truth had been made public, without actually making the *whole* truth public. So a bajillion documents were released, and a few thousand held back which didn't conform to the narrative.
Yay!
When some inconvenient documents were accidentally given to the Committee, ones that didn't fit the narrative Obama and Brennan want, they hacked into the Committe's computers, took those documents back, and threatened to jail Committee staff in order to intimidate them.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)Obama wanted to claim that he released a bajillion documents and the the truth had been made public, without actually making the *whole* truth public. So a bajillion documents were released, and a few thousand held back which didn't conform to the narrative.
...what's clear from that comment is that you don't have a handle on what's actually happening. It's spelled out clearly in the OP.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)a handle on what's going on.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)<...>
The significance of the Internal Review given disparities between it and the June 2013 CIA response to the committee study. The Internal Panetta Review summary now at the secure committee office in the Hart Building is an especially significant document as it corroborates critical information in the committees 6,300-page Study that the CIAs official response either objects to, denies, minimizes, or ignores.
Unlike the official response, these Panetta Review documents were in agreement with the committees findings. Thats what makes them so significant and important to protect.
Hope that helps. See the OP for more facts.
mopinko
(70,113 posts)get a grip. obama doesn't tell the cia what to do.
just get a grip
eta- he did send the guy that created the document. are you too thick to know that you don't announce this kind of thing until all the ducks are in a row? until then you come up with a line to end the questioning. no, we are looking forward. except leon, who is building a case. duh.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)In what language?
librechik
(30,674 posts)with certain documents missing, you are a danger to the CIA.
mopinko
(70,113 posts)this is so not good.
sorefeet
(1,241 posts)He knows it is a matter of time, before they arrest him. Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld all know they were wrong. Cheney don't give a fuck, he thinks he is invincible and will lie right up until they put the rope around his neck. But I think the rest of the guilty are pretty scared of their future. I personally would like to see them lose all of their riches and be put in a prison cell for the rest of their lives. And I mean all of their riches and family riches forever. Banned from any and freedom 24/7 just like all federal felons. You can't sugarcoat torture and murder get away with it.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)dreamy.
I so hope some justice is lurking for those criminals. Oh but to have them in handcuffs and marched off. Chances are slim but it sure is good to imagine that day.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Wow, Once again (and again and again) proof that the buck doesnt stop with Pres Obama"
...makes no such silly and simplistic claim. In fact, it specifically states that Obama appointed Panetta and Brennan.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Right?
librechik
(30,674 posts)So what? They do whatever they want and don't worry about consequences. There never are any. Even against the president.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)By Niels Lesniewski
CIA Director John O. Brennan is facing new pressure from the Senate Democrat in charge of the agencys secret budget.
Senate Majority Whip Richard J. Durbin of Illinois, who doubles as the chairman of the Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense, sent a lengthy missive Thursday to Brennan backing concerns raised by Intelligence Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., and calling for declassification of a torture report prepared by the Intelligence panel.
<...>
The text of the letter to Brennan appears below:
Dear Director Brennan:
I write to express my grave concerns about the CIAs actions with respect to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI) Study of the CIAs Detention and Interrogation Program.
As Chairman of the Judiciary Committees Constitution Subcommittee, I take very seriously the responsibility of all federal officials to respect the U.S. Constitutions Separation of Powers. I also serve as Chairman of the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense, which appropriates funds for the CIA and other intelligence agencies. In this capacity, I have gained a great appreciation for the need to protect the integrity of Congressional oversight of the Intelligence Community.
I have great respect for Senator Dianne Feinstein, the Chairman of SSCI, so I listened carefully to her lengthy floor statement earlier this week detailing her concerns about the CIAs interference in SSCIs oversight work. I have also reviewed your January 27th unclassified letter, responding to an earlier letter from Chairman Feinstein.
The facts as presented in Chairman Feinsteins floor statement and your letter are deeply troubling. Accepting your version of events, it appears that the CIA conducted an unauthorized search of a computer network used by SSCI staff to determine whether SSCI staff possessed certain sensitive CIA documents. You state that the documents in question are privileged, deliberative, and pre-decisional. However, I understand that the Senate Legal Counsel has concluded that this type of privilege is not recognized by the Legislative Branch. I believe that recognition of such a privilege would be a severe blow to any congressional oversight efforts of the Executive Branch, because any information, analysis, or operational plans could simply be labeled as deliberative or pre-decisional and withheld from the congressional oversight committees. This would have profound impacts on the intelligence communitys obligation under the National Security Act of 1947 to keep Congress fully and currently informed on intelligence activities, and also the fundamental system of checks and balances established by the Constitution.
You acknowledge that the CIA does not know how SSCI staff obtained these documents, and Chairman Feinstein maintains that the CIA provided the documents to SSCI staff. Given the separation of powers interests at stake, if the CIA had a question about these documents, you should have at the very least asked Chairman Feinstein and her staff for an explanation before taking the highly questionable and possibly unconstitutional step of searching a computer network used by the Legislative Branch.
As a former member of SSCI, I am also troubled by allegations from CIA staff that SSCI staff has acted inappropriately, and I take seriously Chairman Feinsteins concern that this is a potential effort to intimidate SSCI staff.
It is important not to lose sight of the underlying issue the un-American and illegal torture of detainees held by our government. It was 10 years ago that I authored the first legislation to make it clear that the cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment of detainees is illegal under U.S. law in all circumstances. My legislation was a response to the previous Administrations position that it was legal to use abusive interrogation techniques on detainees.
I was very proud when, on only his third day in office, President Obama issued Executive Order 13491 ending the use of abusive interrogation techniques. Prior to your confirmation, we discussed this issue and you assured me that you would support the Administrations policy.
As you know, the SSCI Study of the CIA Detention and Interrogation Program began in the aftermath of the CIAs inappropriate destruction of detainee interrogation videotapes. Then-CIA Director Hayden suggested that SSCI staff review CIA operational cables about the CIA Detention and Interrogation Program in lieu of the destroyed tapes. As Chairman Feinstein has explained, the SSCI Study was authorized on an overwhelming bipartisan vote after SSCI found that the cables detailed detention conditions and interrogations that were far worse than what the CIA had previously described to SSCI.
Approximately one year ago, I received a classified briefing on the SSCI Study. While I cannot recount the details of the briefing in this letter, the SSCI Study raises extremely troubling issues about not only CIA activities, but also the Agencys obligation to cooperate fully and accurately with congressional oversight activities. The conclusions of the SSCI Study, along with my understanding of the recent events relating to the documents in dispute, indicate to me that the CIA is making it very difficult for Congress to fully carry out its oversight responsibilities. I simply cannot understand any circumstances that would legitimately allow the Executive Branch to withhold any information or documents from an official Senate investigation of such an important matter.
After I was briefed on the SSCI Study, I spoke with you, the President, and then-Secretary of Defense Panetta to urge each of you to be briefed on its findings and to support its declassification. In my view, it is critically important to declassify the SSCI Study so that we can learn from, and hopefully not repeat, the mistakes of our past. I cannot say it better than Senator John McCain, an American hero who knows more about this issue than any other member of Congress, and who has urged the Administration to take whatever steps necessary to finalize and declassify this report, so that all Americans can see the record for themselves, which I believe will finally close this painful chapter for our country.
In light of the important constitutional principles at stake, I urge you to directly address the serious separation of powers issues that have been raised. I also again urge you to accelerate declassification to the greatest extent possible of the SSCI Study of the CIA Detention and Interrogation Program.
Thank you for time and consideration. I look forward to your prompt response.
http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/top-intelligence-appropriator-blasts-cia-wants-torture-report-released/
Obama provided evidence of Bush's torture program to the Senate, and Obama is covering up torture?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024662090