Our bodies, our choice! (Wait! Fuck, NO! Not THAT choice!)

[11 Bravo]

And the porn wars return to DU.
I'm not much of a fan myself, but will cop to the fact that rarely, for shits and giggles, my wife and I will check it out as an appetizer.
It's axiomatic that kid porn or anything else involving an unwilling participant is deserving of nothing but contempt and jail time. But the legit porn industry is heavily regulated, and exclusively the domain of consenting adults who are paid for their labors.
So the sanctimonious hypocrisy of those who insist that someone should be able to make every other choice in their lives except one to willingly become a porn actor or actress, is downright stunning.

[VanillaRhapsody]

1. okay....

[In_The_Wind]

2. Again

I thought the DU porn wars were over.

[LadyHawkAZ]

5. They are only ever in abeyance n/t

[In_The_Wind]

8. I think I'd rather watch porn wars than talk about bestiality.

[LadyHawkAZ]

12. I'd rather watch *porn* than talk about bestiality

At least the porn is merely boring.

[In_The_Wind]

16. That's true. I followed waaaay too many links yesterday.

I saw stories about things I never thought about. Damn!

[The Straight Story]

6. I think Iran is trying to get the porn now, so it is back in the news

[In_The_Wind]

13. They can have all the porn they want

as long as they leave my porn alone.

Older ladies enjoy entertainment too.

[The Straight Story]

15. They are looking for first strike abilities - they are printing their own SI swimsuit covers now

Out and out porn can't be far behind.

[In_The_Wind]

45. I don't see how that's gonna happen ...

Far, far too many differences about the appropriate attire.
Sunglasses may be taboo.

[Warren DeMontague]

73. I heard Iceland was bravely about to "finally do something about this"

Hmm, what happened with that?

[JJChambers]

3. I actually saw a DUer say that she wasn't old enough to make that decision

/puke

Progressive my ass.

[geek tragedy]

4. I'm sorry, did anyone say it should be illegal

to be in porn?

No, they didn't.

This is more fake outrage and flamebait for those who quite clearly love the gender wars.

Go ahead and watch your porn. No one really cares.

[Niceguy1]

11. yes..there are many threads

And posts dedicated to restricting the types of consensual acts depicted in some types of porn

[geek tragedy]

14. What type of consensual acts are people

saying it should be illegal to depict?

[Niceguy1]

17. BDSM, submission

Rape fantasy....I find it hard to believe that you missed it.....

[geek tragedy]

24. Oh, so this is about the precious rape porn

which is the depiction of NON-Consensual sex,

[Niceguy1]

26. I dont know if I would call it precious

but I don't think we should be passing judgement or making laws that restrict a woman as autonomy or her free will

[11 Bravo]

19. And once again you mistake YOUR assertion not to have done something ...

as evidence that no one could have ever done so.
I swear, I've spent 40 years as an elementary school teacher trying to build self-esteem in children, but the fact is ... some people are already WAY too full of themselves.

[geek tragedy]

23. Put up or stop with the phony meta angst.

Provide quotes of all these mean people who disagreed with you on the awesomeness of porn.

[11 Bravo]

28. You are quite likely the most dishonest poster I've ever encountered on this board.

You have now tried to equate "not much of a fan" with a proclamation of the "awesomeness" of porn. You then attempt to conflate the term "those" into a morass of "all these mean people".
From there you pretend to be unaware of anyone on this board ever decrying the fact that some individuals have chosen to make a living as porn actors and actresses; and then proceed to fall back on the lame-ass request for links to statements which you know exist.
If I had even the slightest bit of respect for you, or any inkling that you possess even a scintilla of intellectual probity, I might actually take the time to go back and find the links to statements which you have already read and commented on.
But I don't ... so I won't.

[Bonobo]

39. And finally it becomes a "What I learned on DU" OP.

As if one single person among thousands is the entirety of the DU experience.

Straw man creation on a colossal scale.

[Warren DeMontague]

41. And.... God Forbid anyone should get all "meta" in GD, right?

No, we wouldn't want that, now.

[Warren DeMontague]

27. So when some Icelandic pol floats a trial balloon about banning internet porn from the country

explain the shudders (dare I say, even, paroxysms) of ecstasy that ripple through certain corners of this place?

At least, until reality sets in, namely, that it's a stupid and unworkable idea.

No, but no one supports banning porn. Right.

[Nye Bevan]

34. Actually, yes. Yes they did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4096321

[uppityperson]

7. unrec and tmi

[bigwillq]

9. I 100 percent agree with your last paragraph

[ScreamingMeemie]

10. TMI, TMI, TMI...

[Tuesday Afternoon]

44. I learned to share in Kindegarten but, this is way too generous.

[Blue_Tires]

18. I'm more disgusted with her choice to attend Duke

says so much more about her character than any of her extracurricular activities...

[11 Bravo]

22. UNC, Class of '74 (Thank you GI Bill)! You'll get no argument from me on that score!

[FSogol]

25. Same here.

[Autumn]

20. This is useless without a link

just saying

[Warren DeMontague]

46. Here's a whole bunch.

[Autumn]

50. My favorite links

[sibelian]

21. Just stick em all on ignore.

All the noisemakers. The whole crowd.

You have NO IDEA how much less dumb the place looks like without them.

Seriously.

[ismnotwasm]

30. So true

[Warren DeMontague]

49. I've never used that feature on DU3. I think I used it once, on DU2.

But I have been sorely tempted.

[sibelian]

53. I used to have a "no ignore" philosophy, a long time ago.

Then one day I had a look at the amount of time and energy I was spending on arguing with people who clearly weren't listening to me at all and their responses didn't really amount to much more than "that's what YOU think, dumbass."

It's time and effort spent that I won't get back.

I'm argumentative and easily riled by rudeness and bad thinking. My ignore list is as much to restrain myself as to save me the pain of trying to parse useless garbage.

I adopted a policy of "waste my attention and you're out". I don't care if people disagree with me or even if they're rude, sometimes, but if I get the sense that they are actually using my attention as a lightning conductor for some stupid issue of their own, I lose interest and see no reason to get tripped up again.

They have to be relatively consistent in their silly rudeness, i.e. never seem to be able to agree with anyone on anything. I have no patience with people whose basic stance is that everything's evil and that they are somehow some kind of politically unblinkered non-sheep, a perpetually disgruntled and underappreciated iconoclast by default on every single fucking subject.

I have in the past been happy to share ignore lists with other members. It's quite a good idea.

Once you lose them from the main page, suddenly there's a whole other website appears with interesting people on it talking about the world in sensible ways.... There really aren't as many of the disruptors as you think. Seriously, they contribute almost nothing of any content.

My basic theory is that thought starts with emotion, EVERY thought starts with an emotional reaction to something. If the emotions are twisted, the thought will be twisted.

The "no ignoring" philosophy just lost all value for me after I saw the other website, the REAL DU.

[Warren DeMontague]

57. I hear you. Like I said, sorely tempted. But then, I spent years working in retail

So it's sort of a point of pride with me not to let inane bullshit get to me.

[sibelian]

58. LoL!

Well, I used to work on the reception desk in what you guys in the US call an Emergency Room, so I can kinda relate...

[ismnotwasm]

29. Trash

Now I'll go look for whatever inspired this one to keep it conpany

[11 Bravo]

37. Riiiiight. You probably never even noticed the Duke Porn Star thread.

Plausible deniability? I'll go out on a limb and guess that you just might be able to stumble across the thread you claim to be unaware of.
From there it should be fairly easy for you to figure out how to trash it.

[Warren DeMontague]

48. Another EXCELLENT song selection!

[Sheldon Cooper]

31. We really don't care what you and your wife get up to.

TMI dude.

[11 Bravo]

32. Yeah, I probably could have omitted that little tidbit.

Oh, well, it seemed pertinent at the time.

[Nye Bevan]

38. How dare you two not simply have standard procreative sex with the lights out.

Tut tut tut.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. Is that, like, the royal we?

[PasadenaTrudy]

33. Seriously, who cares? n/t

[Nye Bevan]

35. The other "unacceptable" choice on DU is to have too many kids (like 12).

Women who make that choice are liable to have their vaginas disparaged in DU threads.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. I like how the Domestic US "Population Problem" always has less to do with

the actual fertility rate in this country, and more to do with how recently someone had their "fancy dinner at TGIF's ruined by a crying baby".

[HappyMe]

36. Oh noes!!111

Bad married adults choosing to do what they want!!!11 Bad!!1111

You should know better than mentioning this here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Well sex is icky.

My only advise to the kid, who is old enough, use a condom, insist on it.

After all, the fact that she is paying for school through proceeds should be the story.

Oh and dude, tmi.

[sibelian]

75. EVERYTHING is icky.

Therefore sex is icky.

[Rex]

47. ...

[Warpy]

51. I think the problem a lot of feminists have

is that the women are too young to make really informed choices about it. Most are star struck and are fast talked into it as a stepping stone to non porn movies and we know there is very little crossover. In addition, being that young means they're often bullied into doing things they might not want to do just to become well known enough not to have to do them any more. And that's when they're starting to be considered too old for porn.

Still, consent is consent and women barely out of childhood are legally entitled to give it, even if it's consent to do things other people disapprove of.

[Prophet 451]

52. I'm in complete agreement with you

While the cry of "we're not talking about making it illegal" is posted to every porn thread, the undertone of "ban this filth" is palpable and the shaming of a woman who makes a choice-not-approved disgusts me.

I fully support this woman the same as I fully support anyone who willingly chooses to be a sex worker. I write porn (and make a couple hundred bucks a month at it), my SO was a phone sex operator for a long time (one of the people talking dirty on a phone sex line, usually while playing internet Scrabble with the other girls). In general, I support any woman who willingly chooses to make a living in sex work.

That said, I have changed my mind on rape-fantasy porn. Due to the difficulty in distinguishing between "playing a rape for the cameras" and "actual rape", I think that should be banned.

[sibelian]

54. The Gay SM sites almost all have a default disclaimer

on the front page saying "all models are over 18 and have consented" along with a link to their statement on USC TITLE 18 Section 2257. I don't know how common that is on the hetero analogues.

[Prophet 451]

55. Nor do I

I'm not a huge consumer of pron and what I do use is through YouTube-style sites so I don't know how widespread it is either.

[opiate69]

63. Het porn also has those disclaimers.. at least, the commercially produced porn does.

[Warren DeMontague]

56. I have seen some strange claims made on DU about what is supposedly "the most popular genre of porn"

So this was all I could find regarding those (apparently erroneous) assertions:


http://mankindunplugged.com/2012/04/02/the-worlds-top-7-most-popular-porn-genres-infographic/

According to this infographic, the "most popular genre of porn" is "girl on girl". Please, don't shoot the messenger.

Also this Time Magazine article contains some interesting points:

http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/19/mind-reading-the-researchers-who-analyzed-all-the-porn-on-the-internet/

[pintobean]

59. "the most popular genre of porn"

I was floored when I read that, and it was repeated several times. It was in a safe haven group and no one questioned it. How can someone make a ridiculous comment like that without giving a source, and how can other members of the group just accept it as fact? It seems like willful ignorance.

[opiate69]

62. Ditto that...

Absolutely astounding.

[pintobean]

64. We are being "educated"

by these people.

[opiate69]

65. I feel smarter by the post!

[Violet_Crumble]

76. I got educated by that, though...

Before that really bizarre, many-times repeated claim, I'd never been interested enough to find out what was the most popular genre of porn. So I googled, found the infographic Warren just posted, and even went to one of those free porn sites and found a shitload of genres, but not one of them was rape. So my education there was never believe what you read if it sounds like it's not right and go on fact-finding missions to get the answer yrself

[Warren DeMontague]

66. I'm the Most Popular poster on DU!

It's a fact, I know it's a fact, because I just made it up.

[sibelian]

74. .... actually, you're certainly one of the most well-known, Warren.

... which we can only assume from your thread in the Men's Group regarding objectification. The view count on that thread is huge.

[Warren DeMontague]

85. Egads. Guess I must have struck a chord... or a nerve.

Anyway, it's far from my best work. In as much, I hope people take the time to read the whole thread, instead of just the non-sequitur-esque OP, which was part of a larger conversation at the time.

[sibelian]

67. Yes. It's extremely difficult to discuss any subject with someone...

...who has decided that being disagreed with is the same thing as being oppressed.

It sort of leaves them in a position of being allowed to say and believe whatever they want.

This from a movement that prides itself on telling people not to "make stuff up".

[Warren DeMontague]

69. Yep.

Past a certain point, it is futile to try to debate someone who simply insists on their own set of 'facts', evidence be damned.

Ken Ham and the "6,000 year old Earth" spring to mind.

[Le Taz Hot]

60. This feminist happens to agree with you.

I know I differ from by feminist sisters on this one and have had many a heated debate on the issue, but I happen to think you're right.

[Warren DeMontague]

72. I do think the majority of Feminists on DU support freedom, sexual & otherwise-for consenting adults

Any people that don't, are a distinct minority.

[LanternWaste]

61. May we then presume that those who denounce and work towards the ending of payday loan corporation

"of those who insist that someone should be able to make every other choice in their lives except one to willingly..."

May we then presume that those who denounce and work towards the ending of payday loan corporations or big insurance companies are also seen as "sanctimoniously" stunning?

Or do we need to insert additional qualifiers to better validate one's biases?

[Warren DeMontague]

68. May we presume that you think that loans and health insurance should, themselves, be outlawed?

May we presume that you think that loans and health insurance should, themselves, be outlawed?


Or similarly, may we presume that by comparing consenting adults taking their clothes off in front of a camera to the practice of loan sharking, your analogies need some work?

Or similarly, may we presume that by comparing consenting adults taking their clothes off in front of a camera to the practice of loan sharking, your analogies need some work?

[LanternWaste]

70. The original qualifier is simply two consenting adults-- no more and no less...

The original qualifier is simply two consenting adults-- no more and no less...

Payday operations (not loansharking-- your descriptor, not mines) use two (or more) consenting adults-- one a lender, the other the borrower, and fits well within the parameters given. If someone thinks legal payday lending between between two consenting adults is well within the rights of the general populace, more power to 'em.

[Warren DeMontague]

71. But lending itself isn't outlawed, it is regulated.

I just don't get the connection you're trying to draw between unregulated high-interest loans, and the desire or need to stop people from having sex on film.

[Lint Head]

77. Hmmm...Porn Wars... would make a great replacement for Storage Wars.

[Fumesucker]

79. It would make for some stiff ratings competition.. n/t

[MrScorpio]

78. Oh, no...

[Warren DeMontague]

80. Oh, come on, man.

It's not like the thread about the spooky Rothschilds illuminati party in 1972 was really upping the tenor of GD debate.

[MrScorpio]

81. True… But at least it was original!

[Warren DeMontague]

82. Everybody loves a shaggy dog!

http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/10/the-failure-of-true-detective/

And yes, I know Ross Asshat is an Asshat.

[MrScorpio]

83. Some people live to be assholes nt

[Warren DeMontague]

84. Hell, as far as I'm concerned, it's like when George Will writes about Baseball.

Keeps em out of trouble.