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Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:04 PM

Far too many people are missing the point: This is an attempted police coverup.

Without the local police doing their utmost to cover up for Zimmerman, this would be a relatively open and shut case. Self defense has nothing to do with it; Zimmerman's actions aren't protected by self-defense laws in Florida or anywhere else in the country. But not only did the police go out of their way to avoid doing all the normal things that would have been done in other cases--drug and alcohol testing for Zimmerman, interrogation, a more robust investigation--but they also have been reinterpreting witness statements to support Zimmerman's story, as well as blankly deciding that he wouldn't be charged. That's far more than incompetence, and reaches well into the territory of deliberate coverup.

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Reply Far too many people are missing the point: This is an attempted police coverup. (Original post)
TheWraith Mar 2012 OP
appleannie1 Mar 2012 #1
enough Mar 2012 #2
Warren Stupidity Mar 2012 #3
bahrbearian Mar 2012 #11
BlueToTheBone Mar 2012 #4
TheWraith Mar 2012 #6
Mojorabbit Mar 2012 #9
WheelWalker Mar 2012 #36
grasswire Mar 2012 #15
SunSeeker Mar 2012 #20
BlueToTheBone Mar 2012 #33
SunSeeker Mar 2012 #55
BlueToTheBone Mar 2012 #57
X_Digger Mar 2012 #58
pangaia Mar 2012 #52
ArcticFox Mar 2012 #45
ProSense Mar 2012 #5
Little Star Mar 2012 #12
librechik Mar 2012 #35
Baitball Blogger Mar 2012 #7
indepat Mar 2012 #8
Little Star Mar 2012 #10
murray hill farm Mar 2012 #13
krispos42 Mar 2012 #21
murray hill farm Mar 2012 #30
yardwork Mar 2012 #24
Kennah Mar 2012 #26
murray hill farm Mar 2012 #32
Kennah Mar 2012 #54
obxhead Mar 2012 #14
Historic NY Mar 2012 #16
X_Digger Mar 2012 #22
ZombieHorde Mar 2012 #17
yardwork Mar 2012 #18
krispos42 Mar 2012 #19
bluedigger Mar 2012 #23
Kennah Mar 2012 #27
bluedigger Mar 2012 #28
Kennah Mar 2012 #29
CBGLuthier Mar 2012 #44
ecstatic Mar 2012 #53
thecrow Mar 2012 #25
SmellyFeet Mar 2012 #31
DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2012 #34
Aerows Mar 2012 #39
Iggo Mar 2012 #37
Aerows Mar 2012 #38
hifiguy Mar 2012 #40
Uncle Joe Mar 2012 #41
crunch60 Mar 2012 #42
1monster Mar 2012 #43
Gregorian Mar 2012 #46
noiretextatique Mar 2012 #47
DearAbby Mar 2012 #48
SunSeeker Mar 2012 #56
patricia92243 Mar 2012 #49
nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #50
pangaia Mar 2012 #51

Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:09 PM

1. I just commented on that on a different thread. Police are learning the hard way that this is not

the world they are used to and they are going to have to learn to do things right or face the consequences. Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of good cops out there but there are a lot of Sheriff Joes as well. For the first time ever, they are being put in the spotlight.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:09 PM

2. Definitely two hideous crimes. The murder, and the police coverup.

Both so terrible that there's no way to rank them in hideousness. But the coverup indicates a terrible perversion of so-called rule of law in society, which makes it extremely significant.

I hope as time goes on these two crimes will become clearly delineated, and that both will be confronted.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:11 PM

3. Jeesh no that isnt the point. nt.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:32 PM

11. +1

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:11 PM

4. I don't disagree, but why?

Because Zimmerman was white? Friends? Because of hatred of race difference? Zimmerman looks Hispanic. Florida is a place I will NEVER step into.

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Response to BlueToTheBone (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:15 PM

6. No idea really. But my best guess is connections to the police department.

Either friends or family. I've seen small town police departments ignore crimes due to the perp being friends with some of the cops, but that's usually for small things: trespassing, poaching, et al. In this case, I would be guessing.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:26 PM

9. I am wondering about this myself

It is a very very small town. Something is very odd. I am wondering if he was an informant.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:32 PM

36. My hypothesis is he's a snitch (CRI)

aka, "Confidential, Reliable Informant"

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:44 PM

15. it smells of rampant corruption

....and perhaps even of other crimes of similar nature. Once again I ask the question: Are there any other missing persons in that area? Or John Does?

Something lies under the surface.

Maybe authorities don't want Zimmerman questioned? Maybe they are afraid he will cut a deal and squeal on some things he know about?

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Response to grasswire (Reply #15)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:37 PM

20. SO many Qs. Why were Zimmerman's officer assault charges dropped?

That picture they keep showing of Zimmerman in all the media reports is a mug shot from when he was arrested for assault on an officer, some time before he gunned down Trayvon Martin. Yet those charges were inexplicably dropped.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #20)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:21 PM

33. Wow! I had no idea about that!

That is a BIG question.

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Response to BlueToTheBone (Reply #33)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:54 AM

55. Could it be cuz his daddy was a judge?

His daddy is already trying to get him out of this mess:

"The portrayal of George Zimmerman in the media, as well as the series of events that led to the tragic shooting, are false and extremely misleading," his father, a retired magistrate judge, wrote in a letter published in the Orlando Sentinel.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/justice/florida-teen-zimmerman/index.html

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #55)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 04:24 PM

57. Thanks for the answer.

Of course. That's why young George has no respect...daddy is right behind him cleaning up messes. Maybe Daddy can stay in an adjoining cell.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #55)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 04:50 PM

58. His father is a retired Virginia Magistrate Judge.

I would think the number of strings he could pull are limited (though not non-existent.)

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:36 PM

52. Not just small town behavior..

The US Department of Justice had never prosecuted Bush or Cheney....

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Response to BlueToTheBone (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:47 PM

45. Police just don't care

To them Trayvon was just a John Doe black kid that was likely up to no good and so deserved what he got.

Easier to just sweep it under the rug.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:11 PM

5. Maybe this

has something to do with it:

Opponents Of Florida’s 2005 ‘Stand Your Ground’ Law Predicted ‘Racially Motivated Killings’
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/21/449667/opponents-of-floridas-2005-stand-your-ground-law-predicted-racially-motivated-killings/

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Response to ProSense (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:32 PM

12. Good article.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:38 PM

35. thanks, Pro, I was having trouble

finding a source for the assertion that Trayvon was shot in the chest. Early witnesses said they found Zimmerman sitting on Trayvon's back on the ground and the wound was in his back. Now it seems Zimmerman is the source--no police med examiners have come forward, apparently. Not much trustworthy info available.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:16 PM

7. Yes, that's the right point of view.

And it's not just limited to the police department in this county.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:17 PM

8. Liken the Sanford PD to grass and DOJ to a big ravenous

lawnmower.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:31 PM

10. It’s either a cover up or….

complete incompetence on the part of the police department or maybe a mixture of both.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:41 PM

13. There is probably a lot more of the cover up activity than we know...in this case!

The police just "took Zimmermans word" that his record was squeeky clean..and only when the pressure was put on and it was investigated by the media, was it revealed that this was not true. The Sanford police said that Mr. Zimmerman had a License to carry, but when media asked for state confirmation of this, the state licensing could neither confirm or deny that this was the case. It may well be..and probably is the case that the police just took Zimmerman's word for it that he had such a license. Carrying a gun on ones person without a license to carry is a 3rd degree felony in the state of Florida with a maximum 5 yr sentence.
I have a license to carry, but I know that if I shoot and kill another person that the police will take my gun from me when they arrive on the scene and will hold it until until the incident is investigated and resolved. I don't believe for a second that Zimmerman had a license to carry and that, in time this will be another part of that cover up.

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Response to murray hill farm (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:37 PM

21. He also got into a fight with his girlfriend back in 2005

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002458087

And if he wasn't carrying his permit on him, that's probably some kind of crime as well.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #21)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:54 AM

30. That is a requirement!

I am required to carry my License to carry card (it is like a drivers license..even the same picture is used from your driver's license) with me at all times...even if I am not carrying. I am required to keep my hands on the wheel of my vehicle and in sight if I am stopped for a traffic incident...and to inform the officer that I have a license to carry and that I am not carrying at that time...or if I am carrying to inform the officer where the gun is concealed in the vehicle. The gun must be concealed. It cannot be left sitting on the car seat, it cannot be worn on your body in any way that can be seen, it cannot be carried around ready to shoot, etc. It is only valid for 5 years from the date it was issued and then the whole application process must be repeated including background check and field test. It is not an easy process and the background check is extensive. One sure way to not be able to to obtain a license to carry is to have an injunction for domestic violence in ones background. I doubt very much that Zimmerman had anything resembling a recent and valid license to carry. If the police did not see his license on him, they needed to arrest him then. If they did not see it, but took his word that he had one, they probably would do all that they can do to keep that from coming to light.

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Response to murray hill farm (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:43 PM

24. Wow. You don't think that Zimmerman actually had a license to carry?

That would be big.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #24)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:16 AM

26. It would be a shitstorm ...

... but license or no license it does not change the odious smell in the case that seems to clearly point to a murder indictment.

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Response to Kennah (Reply #26)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:07 AM

32. Right!

If he did have a license, a whole different shitstorm for the state of Florida!

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Response to murray hill farm (Reply #32)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:53 PM

54. Without a license, he would have been charged ...

... and the partial police reports indicate he had a license.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:41 PM

14. That cover up began the moment they arrived on scene as well.

They didn't even bring him in for questioning because doing so would have forced them to make a formal arrest after even mild questioning.

The sheriff, PA, and responding officers should all be arrested for aiding and abetting as well imo.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:13 PM

16. I tend to think its more like shoddy police work, they went through the motions based on a bias...

its seems this dept. has a general course of business if your black in Sanford

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:40 PM

22. My guess is incompetence at first, and cover-up now to cover their asses.

A little of both, if you will.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:57 PM

17. I recommended this, but I don't think this is THE point,

but I do think it is an extremely important point.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:33 PM

18. Clearly. And the DA's office seems to be in on it, too.

Which is why I am worried that the grand jury investigation will lead to nothing. This case needs an independent prosecutor.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:35 PM

19. No, we have to blame the Stand Your Ground laws

It's so much sexier. Even though, assuming Zimmerman was the instigator, the SYG laws would not protect him from being prosecuted for the shooting.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:42 PM

23. There are really only two possibilities, aren't there?

Either the responding officers are totally incompetent, and the chief was just trying to save face and didn't expect the attention, or...

Zimmerman and the Sanford police had an ongoing relationship, i.e. he was an informant, and they were actively trying to protect him from the start.

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #23)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:23 AM

27. No

Sanford is a town of 53K in a county of 422K.

Sanford is 30% African American, Seminole County is 11% African American, and maybe they just don't like "that kind" in Seminole County.

Maybe Trayvon Martin was banging the white daughter of a city council member.

Maybe Trayvon Martin got jumped by the third cousin of George Zimmerman a few months back, Trayvon Martin kicked his ass, and this was payback.

Maybe Trayvon Martin saw the son of a Sanford police captain dealing meth and turned him in.

There are probably any number of reasons for the seemingly aberrant behavior by the Sanford PD.

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Response to Kennah (Reply #27)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:39 AM

28. I stand corrected.

There are two likely possibilities and an infinite number of far-fetched fantasies.

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #28)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:49 AM

29. So an asshole in a small town never carries a grudge over some perceived wrong?

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Response to Kennah (Reply #27)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:20 PM

44. Even posting those speculations is disgusting. No fucking point in it.

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #23)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:39 PM

53. There's a third possibility-- they respond based on who the victim is

Maybe they do stellar work when the victims are white. I don't think it's incompetence, or even a cover up. I think it's race based apathy on their part.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:10 AM

25. Is it true that Trayvon's body was in the morgue for 3 days

and his parents weren't notified?
They can't figure out how to check the numbers on his cell phone?
His mother must have been sick with worry.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:00 AM

31. Seriously? Isn't that why people are protesting, and...

 

most people are so outraged?

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:23 PM

34. That's one of many points in this story, I agree

I'm just going to savor the moment of agreeing with you, TW. It doesn't often happen. Thanks for the living reminder that we're actually on the same side, in many significant ways.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #34)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:43 PM

39. I hardly ever agree with TW

But TW is right in this instance. I don't think "Blame the Police" should be out there wholesale. This was "Blame Zimmerman", police covered for him, now "Blame the Police for not investigating further".

It's nuanced, but the police are no less culpable for an inept investigation of a homicide.

And by Blame, I mean point the finger at the responsible targets, then people pointing pretend fingers at daisies and saying, OH, You Point the Finger Everywhere" facetiously kind of logic.

If people are pointing the finger at Sanford Police and Zimmerman, they have DAMN good reason to do so, and there needs to be a thorough investigation.

This idea that Zimmerman was just an innocent citizen doing his duty and that Sanford police did due diligence is horse shit.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:38 PM

37. Attempted, my ass. They covered it up.

They just got caught.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:41 PM

38. Don't disagree with you in the slightest

That is exactly what happened, and a young man died. They are trying to circle the wagons when it is by the actions of a person they are protecting that this young man died. I'm not anti-police. I am glad to have them when they are needed.

This wasn't the police's fault, though, UNTIL they started protecting Zimmerman. Then they became culpable because they refused to do the right thing.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:51 PM

40. I think you have hit the bull's eye here.

What Zimmerman did was appalling enough - and when convicted I hope he spends the rest of his days in the Crowbar Hilton. What the cops have done to try to cover for Zimmerman and paper the whole thing over is another set of heinous crimes in their own right. I hope all involved wind up in the slammer.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:53 PM

41. I believe you nailed the situation.

Thanks for the thread, TheWraith.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:02 PM

42. Stand Your Ground law, gave this loose cannon, Zimmerman, all the power he

 

obviously wanted and needed to become a dangerous vigilante. Comprehensive weapons training, which obviously he did not have. teaches you not only "when to shoot" but more importantly, when "Not to shoot".
This shooting and consequent murder, given all the evidence at hand, was not justifable or accidental.
I hope this law is overturned and the FBI does a thorough investigation of this travesty of justice.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:17 PM

43. Hear! Hear! I tried to make this point earlier but was shot down wholesale.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:52 PM

46. No, this is a political cover-up.

This is all about trying to keep people from seeing one of the laws that was not only unnecessary, but insightfultowards this kind of event. They're trying to keep it alive. It should never have been put into effect.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:54 PM

47. you are absolutely correct

http://www.northmobilepost.com/tag/george-zimmerman-arrested/

George Zimmerman, was not arrested due to his claim that the murder was in self defense. Lee cited the attention drawn to him as a distraction to the case as his reason for stepping down.

City commissioners issued a vote of no confidence on Wednesday. Mayor Jeff Triplett has said he thinks it is time for the police chief to go.
The department is coming under fire for some false statements made to the Martin’s parents. They also allegedly tested Martin for drugs and alcohol after his death, but failed to do so with Zimmerman.

Police originally told Martin’s parents that Zimmerman had a clean record. That information has turned out to be false. In 2005 a woman accused Zimmerman of domestic violence and had an injunction filed against him. The month prior he had been arrested for shoving a police officer at a bar near the University of Central Florida.

Zimmerman’s prior records seem to indicate an aggressive and potentially violent man. Given the accounts of what happened the night Trayvon Martin was murdered, a pattern of behavior can be discerned. Zimmerman followed the boy even after 911 dispatchers told him not to. He continued following after the boy started to run away. He was looking for trouble.

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Response to DearAbby (Reply #48)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 02:38 AM

56. It could also explain how he got those officer assault charges dropped.

Zimmerman was previously arrested for assaulting an officer. As I learned on Rachel Maddow, it's where that ubiquitous faceshot of him in the orange jumpsuit comes from.

Apparently he shoved a police officer at a bar near the University of Central Florida in 2005. Then, a month later, a woman accused Zimmerman of domestic violence and had an injunction filed against him.

http://www.northmobilepost.com/tag/george-zimmerman-arrested/

Ok, it is a disgusting fact that beating up on a woman in this country doesn't always land you in jail , but since when is shoving a cop ever blown off?

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:25 PM

49. Was he at least taken to police headquarters to give a statment of what happened? n/t

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:28 PM

50. Why DOJ needs to get involved ASAP

The history of the SPD points to an even more dysfunctional department than OPD.

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Response to TheWraith (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:34 PM

51. Zimmerman's father is a retired judge !!

OOPPSS !!

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