So, when the A.C.A. fines kick in...

[warrprayer]

...for not getting insurance, can someone explain to me exactly how this will work?
I have not signed up yet. I am in Pa., and our teabagger Governor has refused expanded Medicaid or whatever the poor peeple option was supposed to be. I am presently in the under $10,000 dollar yearly income group - way under.

So, if I haven't signed up, what happens? I owe the government money?

And the year after that, a lot more money?

Even in pre revolution France, they didn't imprison people for not being able to afford to buy bread. you at least had to actually steal it first.

When large numbers of poor people can't afford this, will we see the poor being thrown into prison for not being able to pay the fines? This could get really interesting.

[yeoman6987]

1. Not an expert

I believe that it is attached to your income taxes and if you don't pay income taxes then they take it out of your bank account or 401K or they deduct it from any sort of government check you may receive. If you have none of those, I don't know….maybe nothing but again far from an expert. I highly doubt prison though.

[warrprayer]

4. somehow to me

... as one who campaigned for Obama in '08 and voted for him again in '12, there seems to be something terribly awry here. I realy didn't expect to be living on the streets on and off this far into his Presidency. I look back on the Clinton years as my "good old days". Plenty of jobs here, working 60 hour weeks or more, gold plated insurance, when GWB got in it was like someone opened a trap door and we all fell through. I hoped to see a lot more progress by now.

[leftyohiolib]

65. what else happened in between 08 and 12? the 2010 election when libs and dems sat out

the election thus giving potus the teatards.

[Skittles]

67. people need to be motivated to vote

you cannot just expect it, nice as that would be

[leftyohiolib]

68. what more motivation do they need? i guess when the food dries up?

[Skittles]

92. politicans doing what they were voted in to do would be a start

[leftyohiolib]

120. you vote dem to keep republicans from positions of power that should be all you need to keep inmind

dems cant do what they promised if they are blocked by republicans let into power by people like you, people who need to be " motivated " to do what they should be doing.
what that sounds like is a fall back excuse you'll use to make yourself feel better for not voting

[Skittles]

121. people like me?

why do you assume I am one of them?

I vote AGAINST REPUKES but SHEESH is it TOO MUCH TO ASK to be able to vote *FOR* DEMOCRATS instead???

[leftyohiolib]

125. like you, like me, you vote for them when u can otherwise you vote against

the republicans. did you see that romney's favoribility is at 47% so it doesnt really matter if u vote for dems or against republicans.
i find it SO hard to believe that after everything the reptilicons have done to america and it's people that romney has a 47% favoribility

[zipplewrath]

77. Myth

It is a myth that "libs and dems" sat out the election. It was much of the middle that switched sides.

[leftyohiolib]

89. 90.6m voted of 235.8m voting-aged voters that's 37% split in half is 18%

split in half makes 18% dems assuming a roughly 50/50 split. if you add in independents that waters the number down even more. if the saying is true when dems vote, dems win and dems didnt win.... it's because they didnt vote

[JVS]

96. But your attribution of of the non-voting to liberals is false.

Obama in 2008 was a charismatic candidate who was able to bring lots of people who normally wouldn't vote (i.e. not the liberals you blame) to the polls.

In 2010 there was little effort to get out the vote and a lot of people who usually didn't vote (once again, not the liberals you blame) went back to not voting. Meanwhile the Republican base was fired up and pissed off, so they had great turnout.

[leftyohiolib]

114. the numbers are right there you cant argue with them. dems sat it out and we.

. dems make up more than 18%
i was here in 2010 the main issues were doma dadt and gitmo there was thread after thread about how these things werent done away with so now we're gonna show him
37% voted half of that ( assuming 50-50split ) 18.5 % that's a generous number of dem voters.
there shouldnt be a need for get out the vote, people knew when the vote was, get out the vote or no get out the vote they sat it out and wouldnt have voted anyway

[JVS]

119. You said "libs and dems"

You're right on dems, wrong on libs.

[Bandit]

123. I suppose you are also against "Vote By Mail"

If we had "Vote By Mail" we would no longer have a turn-out problem. If democrats don't wake up to this FACT then we deserve whatever we get.

[leftyohiolib]

126. vote by mail would be excellent

[zipplewrath]

132. GOP'ers didn't vote either

Both sides lose votes in midterms. Analysis of who did vote shows that the difference was that independents switched sides.

[leftyohiolib]

135. gopers get mad they vote dems get mad they sulk and stay home (not all but enough)

[leftyohiolib]

115. that's not a myth, reality is only 18% of dems voted in 2010

Last edited Tue Feb 25, 2014, 10:47 PM - Edit history (1)

[zipplewrath]

133. And the GOP lost voters too

The difference was that independents who voted dem last time switched sides.

[leftyohiolib]

136. that's not true

[yodermon]

110. the general populace didn't even know there was a midterm election in 2010.

Blaming the electorate for losing elections is just lazy thinking, and it is a mindset that doesn't help for future midterms.

"stupid voters shoulda voted" well DUH, how does that help going forward? What are you gonna do, sit around and hope they get smarter?

Politicians have to EARN the votes and WORK for them, and campaign their asses off, especially in off-years. I hope the OFA machine cranks up to full steam in the coming months *crosses fingers*.. God knows they didn't in 2010, even after just having mopped the floor with mcPalin. we'll see.

[leftyohiolib]

116. they knew the when the election was they just chose to sit it out.

Politicians have to EARN the votes and WORK for them, and campaign their asses off, see this is the problem you feel your politican should make u want to vote when you should just vote, otherwise youre just looking for an excuse to not vote

what am i gonna do? im gonna vote like i do every year. whether my dem dazzles me or not

[yodermon]

124. not me personally, or even one individual..

But for the population at large, yes, you have to work for the votes. OFA was very good at this which is why Obama won twice, but they did precisely bupkis in 2010.

Blaming the electorate is like blaming water for flowing downhill.

You actually took my post to mean that I would withhold my vote unless my dem "dazzles" me? wow, glad you're not in charge.

[leftyohiolib]

128. then the population has only itself to blame for the failed unemployment extension, the anti-gay

laws, the attack on women, the stealing and rigging of elections, elimination of bargining rights and all those other wonderful laws that republicans make. democratic pols shouldnt have to get out there and try to woo anyone out to there to vote. what should get u out to vote is the fact that republicans will starve you out of your home and hand it to mitt romney, then make it illegal for you to live outside, they will poison your water and your air and then get a paramilitary force to beat you down when u try to protest. that's not good enough motivation. besides the fact that it is every american's duty to vote goddamit it's just one fucking day out of the year! ( forgot the election that's total b.s. you dont forget an election you deliberatley sit it out.) maybe you can explain these things to the population youre speaking for maybe that will motivate them to vote. leave the dog and pony show for the republicans

i directed this to you cause you, in your paragraph you said i refering to yourself and not the population so i dont understand why you'd call me stupid. i can only respond to what you write not what you meant to write. here's your paragraph below feel free to tell me where it refers to a population

Politicians have to EARN the votes and WORK for them, and campaign their asses off, especially in off-years. I hope the OFA machine cranks up to full steam in the coming months *crosses fingers*.. God knows they didn't in 2010, even after just having mopped the floor with mcPalin. we'll see

[DireStrike]

129. So if you're the mature adult in the room

And 9/10 times the stupid kids sit out the election because you didn't give them the pony of a "stable economy" and "non-insane foreign and domestic policy"...

If this happens almost every time, which is the adult response to it?

A) THOSE STUPID FIREBAGGER LIBTARDS SCREWN US AGAIN!! Every time we sell them out they stop voting for us! Traitors!
B) Maybe we should, I dunno, govern the way we campaigned and not throw our supporters under the bus. We would keep office that way, and help everyone.



*all of this is predicated on the idea that liberals didn't vote in 2010, which is not true.

[leftyohiolib]

130. well look how well sitting out the election worked for everyone, did it help or hurt are you

better off. you sure showed potus you gave him gridlock in congress and yet you still blame democrats.
they did sit it out, national turnout was 37.8% and they werent all dems

the mature adult in the room should realize that having a temper tantrum doesnt help anyone and that by not voting you give power to the people who want to destroy you and that if nothing else you vote for democrats to keep republicans out of power. obama is not a king and has very limited power you.

[DireStrike]

131. Yes, mature adults would realize such things I agree -nt-

[wercal]

5. I don't think they can go into your bank account or 401k

The entire reason this was upheld by the SCOTUS was the determination that the fine is a 'tax'.

So, I assume it will be collected just like any other past due tax.

That should include the fine being withheld from any tax refund check.

I don't think it will be taken out of 'any sort of government check'. But I do have questions.

- Will somebody in arrears be eligible for federal student aid?

- Will the fine be used to reduce a tax refund, if that refund is EIC?

- What stops somebody from manipulating their W-4 to never get a refund, and never pay the fine?

[warrprayer]

17. I can answer part of your question.

I still owe on a student loan for trade school from 1997. Two years ago they sold the loan, I went from owing 5,000 dollars to 6,000 as the new creditor added service fees. They have taken every dollar of my tax refunds since the year 2001 when I defaulted. They will be taking it out of my Social Security payments if UI live long enough to collect. The situation is unacceptable, but none of our millionaire congress members could give a flying fuck, as long as the bankers keep getting paid.

[wercal]

74. Does that include eic?

And if its not eic they're taking, why not increase the dependents on your w4 so you pay less out of each paycheck and don't get a refund.

[Ms. Toad]

79. That is a different statute.

The sole enforcement of the tax is to deduct the amount from your refund (not social security & not prison).

To avoid this particular fine, all you need do is to adjust your withholdings so you owe at the end of the year, rather than getting a refund.

[RebelOne]

59. They sure as hell can go into your bank account.

It happened to me many years ago after my divorce. My ex-husband was claiming our two kids as deductions and so was I. Well, the IRS decided I could not claim them and raided my checking account. I had not notification until my checks started bouncing.

[wercal]

75. Was that retro-actively getting a refund back because the kids were claimed twice?

That's a little different situation.

[oneshooter]

72. So why do you keep calling it a fine?

[wercal]

76. Because the OP.called it a fine.

And it is commonly called a fine. But SCOTUS ruled it is a tax.

[PowerToThePeople]

78. This sounds exactly like something Rushbo would say. eom

[LumosMaxima]

2. The fine won't apply to you.

If your income is too low for you to be required to file a return, you're exempt from the penalty.

https://www.healthcare.gov/exemptions/

[warrprayer]

6. thanks for the info

being over 50 in this economy is a nightmare, as many others on here have said. I cringe at the thought of what it would have been under Romney, my only consolation.

[LumosMaxima]

13. I hear you. Hope things get better for us all soon. nt

[PasadenaTrudy]

45. I have a friend

who is over 50 and can't work because he has been caring for his mother for 3 yrs. His brother supports him. Sounds like he won't be fined either, since he doesn't file a return...Whew!

[PoliticAverse]

3. Due to your income level you won't owe any fine/tax for not having insurance. n/t

[Mnemosyne]

7. My bad. Daughter was not fined, was told she would be. She misinformed me. Sorry. nt

Last edited Tue Feb 25, 2014, 01:58 PM - Edit history (1)

[warrprayer]

8. O.K. now I'm getting two different stories.

Someone please help, I am confused.

[PoliticAverse]

10. I don't know what the poster from PA is referring to, but the Federal fine/tax doesn't apply

until taxes are filed next year. And due to you your income you won't owe any.

[Mnemosyne]

15. She worked last year. Pa didn't expand. She was shocked. Not huge fine, but big to her.

Confused H&R's charge.

[Mnemosyne]

26. Have to ask her the fine, confused it with their charge. nt

[CreekDog]

101. very simple, she was not fined for Obamacare, period

read the dang law or some information about it and stop spreading bs here. we have enough trouble with Republicans lying about the law, we don't need ignorance and misinformation spread by people who are on our side.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/28/irs-finalizes-penalties-for-obamacare-individual-mandate/

[warrprayer]

11. Did your daughter earn

over the amount where she would not have to file? That might explain it... though it is still a kick in the teeth for someone struggling.

[Mnemosyne]

23. She was just a bit over. I don't understand why H&R took it out. nt

[Ms. Toad]

82. Either you or your daughter misunderstood what was going on.

No fines/tax penalties are imposed until the 2014 taxes (filed in early 2015).

[Lex]

12. If her income was under 133% of the federal poverty level, she was exempt

from penalty, according to this:

&quot i)f your income is less than 133% of the federal poverty level, you will be relieved of this penalty. "

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2013/10/28/obamacare-penalties-and-exemptions/

[Mnemosyne]

16. H&R Block did her taxes. I have no clue why they did it. nt

[warrprayer]

20. I had a nasty experience with H&R Block

a number of years ago. Recommend having someone else look things over for her.

[CreekDog]

106. considering NOBODY can be fined for tax year 2013 because fines don't kick in until 2014

which nobody is filing for until 2015...

just forget everything you think is true and start over. you're getting it so completely wrong.

[Lex]

21. She needs to get the money back then

because

1. the fines don't start until 2014 taxes are filed, and
2. it sounds like she doesn't make enough to be fined.

[yardwork]

39. You're spoiling all their fun.

How can they sow fear, uncertainty and doubt when people post calm facts?

[Lex]

40. It must be true because H&R Block

says so? Sigh.

[yardwork]

43. I heard it on the internet so it must be true.

[Marrah_G]

118. This is not a new poster

I'm thinking the issues is more the person who did her daughters taxes or some sort of misunderstanding.

[missingthebigdog]

14. How is that possible? Fines don't start

Until 2015, when filing the 2014 tax return.

[Mnemosyne]

18. I have no clue, H&R did her taxes. nt

[yardwork]

30. If they told her that she owes $200 for an ACA fine, then they are either lying or incompetent.

Did they collect the "fine" on behalf of the government? She might want to ask for it back.

[Recursion]

109. I was wondering that too...

"Yeah, you owe a 'fine'... let me just take care of that for you right now..."

[alcibiades_mystery]

70. let me put this plainly: your information is incorrect, and you are spreading incorrect information

It's not much more complicated than that. I assume, of course, that you're doing so mistakenly rather than deliberately, but the bottom line is that you are 100% wrong about what happened with your daughter's taxes vis-a-vis ACA. 100% wrong. It is impossible that she would have been fined while filing her 2013 taxes, as the fines have not started yet. Regardless of tax preparer or income level, your daughter was absolutely NOT fined for failing to have health insurance, and if you believe she was, you're wrong.

[CreekDog]

102. too wordy, just say "I have no clue."

this key point is really where you should leave it.

[yardwork]

22. Interesting post, isn't it?

[warrprayer]

28. the poster

... has ben on D.U. a long time and is a nice person.

[Warren Stupidity]

84. the nice person has either been lied to by somebody or is making stuff up or is very confused.

[PoliticAverse]

29. That's correct. n/t

[JoePhilly]

42. Some one has been scammed.

And the scammer blamed the ACA.

At least that's how it appears.

[Walk away]

47. How is that possible? Maybe you should check with your daughter.

It's not even march 1st yet.

[Ms. Toad]

81. She was not fined under the ACA.

Tax penalties will first be imposed when filing your 2014 taxes (in 2015). And if your income is zero, the penalty for not having insurance is zero.

Whatever the fine was for, it was not for failure to obtain insurance.

[Warren Stupidity]

83. somebody is confused. No fines this year.

[CreekDog]

99. the fine doesn't apply to people with no income, let's not believe BS ok?

also, it nobody is fined in 2013, PERIOD.

[Lex]

9. You are probably exempt from penalty.

&quot i)f your income is less than 133% of the federal poverty level, you will be relieved of this penalty. "

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2013/10/28/obamacare-penalties-and-exemptions/

[wildbilln864]

25. what's the federal poverty level...

for a single guy, please?
where do i look that up? thanks in advance.

[handmade34]

32. ...

http://www.familiesusa.org/resources/tools-for-advocates/guides/federal-poverty-guidelines.html



$11,670

[Lex]

33. .

Federal poverty level in 2013.

[PoliticAverse]

37. $11,670

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/14poverty.cfm

[frwrfpos]

19. Ive already made it on my taxes so that I break even at the end of the year with withholding.

Im not going to be forced to buy shit insurance with a 6350 deductible. Yes that is what my deductible is before a penny is paid out by insurance. And my monthly premium would have been 90 dollars a month, and that is after the subsidy.

FYI, my income is a little over 10 an hour full time, and that is the premium and deductible for a "bronze" plan.

Let them bill me for the fine and watch me not pay it.

Fucked up country I live in.

[warrprayer]

24. ...

[Ms. Toad]

87. Slight correction

The insurance pays for preventative care before the deductible is met:

Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm one-time screening for men of specified ages who have ever smoked
Alcohol Misuse screening and counseling
Aspirin use to prevent cardiovascular disease for men and women of certain ages
Blood Pressure screening for all adults
Cholesterol screening for adults of certain ages or at higher risk
Colorectal Cancer screening for adults over 50
Depression screening for adults
Diabetes (Type 2) screening for adults with high blood pressure
Diet counseling for adults at higher risk for chronic disease
HIV screening for everyone ages 15 to 65, and other ages at increased risk

Immunization vaccines for adults--doses, recommended ages, and recommended populations vary:
Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
Herpes Zoster
Human Papillomavirus
Influenza (Flu Shot)
Measles, Mumps, Rubella
Meningococcal
Pneumococcal
Tetanus, Diphtheria, Pertussis
Varicella

Obesity screening and counseling for all adults
Sexually Transmitted Infection (STI) prevention counseling for adults at higher risk
Syphilis screening for all adults at higher risk
Tobacco Use screening for all adults and cessation interventions for tobacco users

And at least one annual preventative care exam

I'd call $90 bucks a month a bargain for that range of preventative care, 100% of costs for non-preventative services after $6350 (the max any plan is allowed to require you pay, even if the deductible is also $6350 - in which case it jumps from you paying 100% ot the insurance paying 100%).

You may still find it unpalatable - but you should at least be accurate when you trash it.

(As long as you are buying a plan through the marketplace, the above is mandated - if you are going outside the marketplace, the preventative care should be substantially the same, but may vary slightly)

[frwrfpos]

90. I dont need fucking screening by a parasitic insurance company

I need health care.

And if you think someone making about 10 bucks an hour can afford another 90 a month bill for fucking shit insurance, maybe you need to look at the provisions of this shit ass bill called the ACA, which is a fucking joke and cruel to poor and working poor such as myself.

Tell me where Im going to pull 90 a month off of 10 something an hour. For a deductible of 6 thousand plus dollars

Cruel fucking joke to millions of people in this country.

[Ms. Toad]

91. All I said was that when you trash something, at least do it honestly

You said you had to incur $6350 before the insurance company paid a penny. That is not true - I gave you the list of things all marketplace policies cover (which includes well more than screenings). The cost of all the immunizations covered is considerable, and an annual visit could uncover conditions which can be treated relatively cheaply (even if you have to pay for it out of pocket) - but save you considerable health care costs in the future (high blood pressure, diabetes, to name a couple).

When I was earning $20,000 a year, I would have been thrilled to be able to buy insurance at $90/month - the cost for the only insurance available to me at that time in my life (because of pre-existing conditions) was approximately $6-900/month.

You don't have to be thrilled - but at least be honest about what it provides.

[frwrfpos]

93. screenings are not care.

They are screenings for conditions. The actual CARE for those conditions the insurance will not pay a penny for until I cough up 6350 out of pocket.

This is a bullshit argument that equates screenings as healthcare. Its not. I earn a little over 20 grand and if you think 90 a month is affordable you are as out of touch as Obama thinks this bullshit is "healthcare".


Forcing me to buy shit insurance or taxing me is NOT a solution.

[Ms. Toad]

94. Vaccinations are preventative care.

And those are all covered without you paying a penny. The whole point of preventative care is to prevent smaller problems from becoming larger problems. All insurance plans in the marketplace cover basic screenings which can catch many easily and cheaply treatable conditions. And unless you enjoy spending far more than $6350 a year when the diseases being screened for get out of control and cost massive amounts to fix, that is not nothing.

And like I said - when I was earning $20,000 a year all I had access to was insurance which cost $5-600 a month, and I would have jumped at the opportunity to buy insurance which cost $90 a month. At that point I had already been through a 30 day hospital stay which cost around $50,000 (today that same stay would cost closer to $200,000). When I had that hospital stay I was insured, so insurance covered most of it - but the reason I was uninsurable and without insurance when I was only earning $20,000 was that the insurance companies were afraid it would happen again. Being reassured that I my maximum medical debt would be $6350 if it happened again, for me, would have been worth every penny.

[frwrfpos]

95. many of those vaccinations are at birth for god sake

MMR/ Diptheria? I can get FREE screening for BP at the local fucking grocery store

Furthermore almost ALL of those screenings can be gotten at community health clinics which ALREADY EXIST.

This is not health care.

This is forced buying of shit insurance with high copays and deductibles which WILL bankrupt millions of people


90 dollars a month for someone who grosses 20 grand is a HUGE hardship.

Clueless and heartless.

[Ms. Toad]

103. The MMR vaccine does not last forever -

Adults need boosters. It is not just a childhood vaccine - nor are many of the others on there.

But my point, again, is that your initial statement was false. Feel free to trash the law - but do it honestly. And realize that others in your situation - as I have been - may feel quite differently than you do. As I said, when I was in that situation I would have been overjoyed to have a $90/month plan available, because all that was available to me was a $6-900/month plan.

[frwrfpos]

100. Also the maximum medical debt is NOT 6350

Thats the max PER YEAR


The insurance company informed me that they will charge me 6350 EVERY year until the debt is settled. The bronze plan covers 60% of expenses.

That leaves the insuree on the hook for 40% of the bill until its paid off. And the insurance can charge the insuree up to 6350 EVERY YEAR until that debt is paid off

When people who examine this more closely the more they are going to be very very angry at forced buying of shit insurance

[Ms. Toad]

112. No idea what debt you are talking about.

If you have a $10,000,000 year, they have to pay 100% above $6350 (unless you go out of network for care) - and that is true on the bronze plan as well. Once you hit the deductible, they covers 60% until you have paid $6350. Once you hit $6350 that is it. You don't pay one penny more for covered care for any costs incurred that year. They do not carry over charges to the next year, and make you pay next year to cover excess expenses this year - as you seem to be implying.

Now - if you are like my daughter whose billed costs every year are around $60,000, she will be paying the first $6350 each year of that annual $60,000 bill - and that is a significant problem for people with chronic illnesses. But, by and large, most people won't have a year which goes above $6350 very often.

So if you have an option for a $6350 deductible bronze plan which is cheaper than the $6350 silver plan, by all means take the bronze plan because the deductible and the out of pocket max merge, so once you hit $6350 in expenses, both plans will pay 100% of the rest of covered care in the year - the 60%/80% differential between the plan is meaningless, because you never have to pay more than $6350 for the covered (in network) care regardless of which plan you are in.

The other thing I forgot about (and most people aren't aware of) is that cost sharing is subsidized as well - your annual out of pocket cap will be around $2250 (for a single person earning $20,000) - so the $6350 deductible doesn't apply to you.

Check here for a more realistic number using your numbers - it still may be out of your price range, but perhaps not since your annual cap will be considerably lower. For an annual income of 20,000, for one person:

Your out-of-pocket maximum for a Silver plan (not including the premium) can be no more than $2,250. Whether you reach this maximum level will depend on the amount of health care services you use. Currently, about one in four people use no health care services in any given year.

You are guaranteed access to a Silver plan with an actuarial value of 87%. This means that for all enrollees in a typical population, the plan will pay for 87% of expenses in total for covered benefits, with enrollees responsible for the rest. If you choose to enroll in a Bronze plan, the actuarial value will be 60%, meaning your out-of-pocket costs when you use services will likely be higher. Regardless of which level of coverage you choose, deductibles and copayments will vary from plan to plan, and out-of-pocket costs will depend on your health care expenses. Preventive services will be covered with no cost sharing required.

[CreekDog]

107. maybe you'd prefer to get care without getting screened first

treat you for diabetes, without knowing if you have it or not.

treat you for high blood pressure, without screening to know if you have it or not.

if you want to skip all the screenings because they aren't care, we'll just treat you for every known disease on the planet because you just want to cut to the freaking chase and not waste time actually figuring out what you have and don't have.

because you don't want screenings, JUST CARE.

you're making the most of your short stay.

[KG]

27. fining people hundreds then thousands. boy what PR coup that will be in '16

[warrprayer]

31. I hate to say this

perhaps I am just feeling blue today, but I am rapidly losing hope and faith in this country altogether.

[wildbilln864]

38. u r not a lone! n/t

[yardwork]

41. Medicare for all is a good solution.

Would you agree that voting in more liberal Democrats might help us toward universal access to high-quality health care? That's my goal.

[warrprayer]

49. I will never vote

for anyone other than a Democrat. And I am well aware that not voting is political suicide, especially for the poor.

[CreekDog]

108. you what i'm losing faith in? even if the health plan were perfect, you'd still post bad things

about it that aren't true.

that's what you and others are doing here right now. you aren't satisfied with posting factual criticisms of the law so you and others are making up or insinuating things about the law that aren't even true.

so if we actually got a perfect health plan, it probably wouldn't matter, you'd make up stuff about it anyway.

i've lost faith, but you can help restore that faith, you know?

[Fumesucker]

34. It's not like there's any Republican fingerprints on the ACA

They made sure the Democrats got all the glory.

[Lex]

35. he doesn't owe a fine

so

[Travis_0004]

36. The IRS has almost no ability to collect the fine.

If you owe income taxes, they can sieze assets, get a judgement, garnish your wages. The IRS has enforcement powers, and they can be scary to deal with.

If you owe a fine for not having insurance, the IRS has almost no ability to collect it. They can withhold tax refunds due, and send a letter asking you to pay, and just about nothing else. They can not take you to court, they can't garnish your wages, and they certainly can not put in you jail.

[warrprayer]

51. no one has ever gone to jail

for not paying taxes?

Well, not in recent history, i.e. banksters. but...




(just pulling your leg - I understood what you meant)

[Ms. Toad]

88. The ACA expressly limits the ability of the IRS to enforce it

Withholding fines from whatever refund you are due is it.

(That is not true for other obligations to the government, but it is part of the ACA)

[bravenak]

44. Ask for a waiver.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/proposal/titlei/hardship

$9350.00 a year qualifies you for a hardship waiver.

If you need more info I'll look it up for you, no problem. I need the practice.

[warrprayer]

50. thanks I think I have a handle on it now

I got a lot of good info on this thread! We are probably better off with the ACA than we were before, but for people like me in red states, we are a long way from being where we need to be. I think that is a fair outlook.

[bravenak]

57. I live in a red state too, it's depressing to be a part of the have nots.

My governor is an idiot. Sarah Palin picked him for us.

[JoePhilly]

46. That's what the FEMA death camps are for. Nt

[dsc]

48. You finally got some accurate answers down thread

but I do want to address one of the types of inaccurate answers you got. You can easily have to file taxes and still not owe the fine. A single adult has to file taxes even with a quite low income and a family with kids would file to get the EIC. In any case, if you would have qualified for the Medicaid expansion, but your state chose not to expand, you are not responsible for the penalty.

[warrprayer]

52. Hopefully

we will soon be replacing Corbett. Shouldn't be too hard, with his 14% approval rate.

[dsc]

54. that is our most likely pick up by far

I think this election will be good for us at the governor's level. We should pick up PA, ME and FL. We could pick up WI, MI, KS, and OH. We likely will lose IL.

[warrprayer]

58. Voting is our only option

to keep this place from turning into a true hell on earth.

[gerogie2]

53. If you are elgible for Medicaid, but State doesn't provide it

then you are not liable for any additional income tax.

https://www.healthcare.gov/exemptions/

[warrprayer]

55. thanks

my library time is almost over - thanks to all! Lots of good info here.

[TeeYiYi]

64. That was a helpful link. Thanks. ..nt

TYY

[DanTex]

56. I can't speak about whether you would owe the fine,

but from what it sounds like, it is extremely unlikely.

As far as enforcement, the IRS does not have the same tools to enforce the Obamacare penalty as for regular taxes. If you don't pay income taxes (for a while), the IRS can really make life difficult for you. For example, they can use a tax levy to go after your property directly, such as wages or bank accounts or other payments. They can also bring a criminal case against you. People have gone to prison for income tax evasion.

But the IRS is specifically prevented from using most of those tools to recover Obamacare fines. In particular, they aren't allowed to bring a criminal case, and they can't use tax levy on your property. Which means that they really can't do very much.

So, no, nobody will go to prison for not paying the Obamacare fine. And most likely, if anyone really wants to game the system and not pay the fine, they will be able to get away with. Of course, this is not legal advice, and it's probably better not to try and game the system, because there might be some provision in there that could snag you, in which case you could end up having to pay more money than just the original fine, or having bad credit, or whatever. But you won't go to prison. No poor people (or rich people) will go to prison for not having health insurance.

[warrprayer]

60. what is this credit

... of which you speak?

[DanTex]

62. LOL. Hang in there! Here's hoping things get better for your situation,

and for the rest of the country.

[TeeYiYi]

61. It won't hurt you to apply...

Then you can say you did your part. You'll most likely get a determination notice that says you're eligible for Medicaid and that someone from Medicaid will be contacting you. (Don't hold your breath.) Without the Medicaid expansion in your state, you probably won't qualify for Medicaid either. You'll be exactly where you were before but at least you'll have evidence that you attempted to comply.
Welcome to Republican Limbo. Being in Utah, I'm in your same boat, matey.

TYY

[ladyVet]

63. This is the kind of thing I've wondered about.

I'm currently waiting to hear back from the Federal medicaid thing, as my lovely state (NC) did not expand medicaid (and I wouldn't qualify anyway, apparently).

All I know is, I'm not working, have no income to pay taxes on, and only just enough in the credit union to keep the account open. If the government wants to come after me for a fine, then bring it.

The main reason I voted for Obama in the primary was because he was against a mandate. Nice how that worked out.

[TeeYiYi]

69. Did you file for ACA?...

Go to healthcare.gov and complete the application. You'll receive an "eligible for Medicaid" determination. Then Medicaid will eventually get around to telling you that you're not really eligible. Either way, you'll have evidence that you've done your due diligence and won't be fined.
Welcome to Republican Limbo.

TYY

[leftyohiolib]

66. WHY dont u go here https://www.healthcare.gov/contact-us/ and ask them

there are phone nbrs you can call and ask someone who actually knows

[backscatter712]

71. Essentially, it's an addition to your taxes.

You fill out your 1040, you have to check the box that says you don't have insurance, so you get an additional amount added to your taxes, and that's what either you have to send to the IRS, or what you don't get back in your refund.

Governments have always been difficult towards people who don't pay their taxes.

[woo me with science]

111. This was my understanding. nt

[Yo_Mama]

73. You are exempt from the fine

Based on the info in your OP.

As far as I can figure out, very few people will end up paying the fine except people who really can afford the ACA subsidized premium but don't get the insurance. Many of the non-subsidized people are facing premiums that exceed the affordability limit, and so forth.

There are some young people in urban markets who are not eligible for subsidies that will have premiums low enough that they will face the fine. But the insurance is pretty shitty in a lot of cases, so they may choose to pay the fine instead.

[2naSalit]

80. Text in the ACA says

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr3590enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr3590enr.pdf

page 131...

&quot 2) SPECIAL RULES
.—Notwithstanding any other provision
of law—
‘‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES
.—In the case of
any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed
by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any
criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
‘‘(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES
.—The Secretary
shall not—
‘‘(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property
of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the
penalty imposed by this section, or
‘‘(ii) levy on any such property with respect to
such failure.’’.

And this...

Page 142...

H. R. 3590—142
SEC. 1555. FREEDOM NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN FEDERAL HEALTH
INSURANCE PROGRAMS.
No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health
insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance cov-
erage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insur-
ance program created under this Act (or any amendments made
by this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program expanded
by this Act (or any such amendments), and there shall be no
penalty or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not
to participate in such programs.

So, I guess that what I heard, months ago on O'Donnell's show, there are no actual means of enforcement to making you pay the fines... and from Sec. 1555, you have the right to decline participation.

[treestar]

85. Just sign up

and it will work out OK FFS.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

86. Broadly speaking....

Here's what I think will happen (in part based on how the Massachusetts law works).

On you 2014 tax return, there's going to be a form or schedule that will ask about your insurance coverage (did you have it, did you have it all year, did it cover everyone in the family, etc.). From there you'll determine if there's a penalty to be paid, and how much the penalty will be.

If you have a refund coming, but owe the penalty, then it will be deducted from your refund. That much is pretty clear. What's not clear is what happens if you DON'T have a refund coming. Congress basically told the IRS that no criminal penalties will apply, and that the IRS's usual methods for collecting back taxes won't be allowed.

So if you don't have a refund coming, but you owe a penalty from the ACA, I assume that the Director of the Internal Revenue Service will shake his fist in your general direction, but not a lot else. Nearly as I can tell, there is no enforcement mechanism.

[Romulox]

97. Obama already waved the mandate for corporation$$$. Just poor people have to pay the fine.

A group nobody cares about.

[unblock]

104. afaik, the only enforcement mechanism is the irs can reduce any refund you'd otherwise get.

you can't go to prison for it, they can't seize anything, they can't attach your paycheck, etc.

i don't think the irs can even charge you more if you owe money. all they can do is reduce any refund.

so if you claim more exemptions so that you're sure to be properly withheld or slightly under-withheld, they wouldn't actually be able to enforce the penalty because there's no refund to reduce. of course, you might have to pay an under-withholding penalty....

[catrose]

105. My son was in the same situation

but a different state. If the governor had expanded Medicaid, he would have qualified for a subsidy, but because the gov didn't, my son wouldn't be fined. He spoke with several counselors and healthcare.gov who assured him of this.

[frazzled]

113. You will owe no fine, but even if you did ...

It would be only 1% of your income (so, $100) or $95 for the year, whichever is higher.*

But you won't owe because, according to the IRS guidelines on the fee (called the "shared responsibility provision&quot :

. What are the statutory exemptions from the requirement to obtain minimum essential coverage?

Income below the income tax return filing requirement. Your income is below the minimum threshold for filing a tax return. The requirement to file a federal tax return depends on your filing status, age and types and amounts of income. To find out if you are required to file a federal tax return, use the IRS Interactive Tax Assistant (ITA)

...

Affordability. You can’t afford coverage because the minimum amount you must pay for the premiums is more than eight percent of your household income.

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Questions-and-Answers-on-the-Individual-Shared-Responsibility-Provision

* See https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-someone-doesnt-have-health-coverage-in-2014/

The penalty in 2014 is calculated one of 2 ways. You’ll pay whichever of these amounts is higher:

1% of your yearly household income. The maximum penalty is the national average yearly premium for a bronze plan.

$95 per person for the year ($47.50 per child under 18). The maximum penalty per family using this method is $285.

The fee increases every year. In 2015 it’s 2% of income or $325 per person. In 2016 and later years it’s 2.5% of income or $695 per person. After that it is adjusted for inflation.

If you’re uninsured for just part of the year, 1/12 of the yearly penalty applies to each month you’re uninsured. If you’re uninsured for less than 3 months, you don’t have to make a payment.

[stevenleser]

117. Why don't you sign up and say your projected income is $12000/yr? You wont get penalized

And you will get a bronze policy for free or a silver/gold/platinum for under $100/mo

[lostincalifornia]

127. Anyone who qualifies for expanded Medicaid, but whose state did not do it, is NOT subject to the

mandate.


http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/daily-reports/2013/june/28/medicaid-expansion.aspx

[Mnemosyne]

134. I apologize for having bad information. Stopped paying attention after learned could not afford the

insurance, nor deductibles. I should have paid more attention. My daughter misinformed me, I should have known that any info from her is suspect due to TBI. I thought maybe Governor Gasshole had pulled a fast one.

Again, my sincerest apologies, was having a bad day that got a bit worse when I read the innuendos here that I am a troll of some sort. This place gets meaner all the time.

Sorry.

[warrprayer]

137. I know you aren't a troll

been reading your posts for quite a while. No problem.

[Mnemosyne]

138. Thank you.