I don't think Michael Dunn is enjoying his Pyrrhic victory.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Just sayin...

[demwing]

1. Maybe he understands

that he's already lost the rest of his life to a 60+ year prison term.

Or maybe the music is still too damn loud? It can't be easy being a racist, grumpy, attempted-murdering asshole.

[riverwalker]

2. he is one evil sob

[Kahuna]

64. I've been waiting to see that smirk give way to tears..

[MoonRiver]

68. Is that him crying about his dog?

I love dogs, but he never shed a tear or uttered a word of remorse for the kid he gunned down in cold blood.

[bravenak]

3. His face in the courtroom as the verdict was read was priceless.

He thought things were going his way, never considered for a minute that the living victims would be what did him in. No wonder he was trying to kill them all, no verdict on the dead one, guilty on the ones who lived. He never saw that coming.

I hope his fellow prisoners watch Nancy Grace, and have heard about the jail letters.

I hope his dog loves someone else now and has forgotten him.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. All the life was drained out of his face when (all) the verdicts were read/nt

[bravenak]

9. Wasn't it beautiful!

Sigh..
Too bad they missed one. Can't change his stupid ass story now, the next jury will already hear all about his pizza party after the murder, fleeing the scene, and his girlfriend won't be scared of reprisals for testifying against him.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. I couldn't even work my face into a frown like his if I tried.

I once spent three hours in the hoosegow. I can't imagine what it would be like to spend the rest of my life there.

[bravenak]

15. My mom said that ugly face was what convicted him.

I reminded her about his ugly Zimmerman was, but she said he's a grinner, makes him look less scary, but this guy looks like a serial killer.

At the end when court was over, you could see he wanted to cry. I've watched it 4 times. It gets better every time I watch it, i might just put it on a loop and make it into a motion picture.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. I thought Zimmerman was guilty as sin. He provoked the confrontation.

But at least his argument made sense on its face; some guy was beating me to death, I was afraid I was going to die, and I shot him.

What was Dunn's argument? I shot some kid because he played his cd player too loud.


You should make a gif of Dunn's expression. I didn't see the part where he was about to cry but he was clearly shook.

[bravenak]

21. I gots to watch it again and try that out.

He's pretty stoic but at the end, he realized this wasn't a movie.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. What kind of person shoots somebody and then orders a pizza?

That's straight out of The Godfather or The Sopranos.

[bravenak]

46. Tony would go home after and eat meat straight outta the fridge. Then have a panic attack.

He's got more class than this guy. He buys good meats. And feels guilt.
This guy is stone cold. He only cried about the dog, what a loser.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. That's true

When he killed Big Pussy it haunted him...It also haunted him when he killed Matthew Bevilaqua because he was little more than a kid.

Allen's act is more like Joe Pesce's character in Goodfellas killing the kid in the clubhouse because he one upped him in verbal jousting.

[bravenak]

50. I miss Tony.nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. I saw Enough Said because he was in it.

He has one more movie that has been yet to be released.

[bravenak]

53. Was it good?

I'm avoiding it because I don't want to be sad. I'm going to watch it on demand tonight.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. Yes, And his character is very un Tony like

He's more like Tony in the dream sequence where he dreams what his life would have been like he became a businessman instead of a mobster.

Did you see him in

Twelve Angry Men
Killing Them Softly
Not Fade Away
Zero Dark Thirty ?

Must see.

I need to see him in The Crying Game and The Mexican.

[bravenak]

56. Good list.

Never seen any of them, I need something to watch between episodes of shameless and waiting for game of thrones to come back. And Broad City. Love me some Broad City, reminds m of me and my BFF.

[MoonRiver]

69. Please start an OP with that!

I was out and missed the verdict live.

[seveneyes]

31. Wonderful to see the guilty pay

There should be more of this bloodletting anytime someone pays the price of harming innocents. There are certainly plenty of guilty killers every day. Perhaps it would deter such ignorant individuals.

[riverwalker]

6. hope his cellmate has one of these

and a library of 1000 rap CD's.

[bravenak]

7. LOL!

That would be the best thing ever!!!!

[rdharma]

34. Errr merr gerrrd!

[DonViejo]

39. LOL...

Thanks for the great laugh!

[Auntie Bush]

18. I feel sorry for his dog

who did nothing wrong and has now been rooted from his home. That's devastating to any dog or pet...a helpless victim.

[bravenak]

19. I hope his dogs have found someone else to love.

I really do.

[TorchTheWitch]

52. I admit I thoroughly enjoyed that

Mr. Frowny Face got escorted back to jail, and I hope the judge sentences him to the maximum that he can for those charges he was found guilty of.

I hope his fiance has the dog. She seems like a nice lady though I can't imagine what she was doing with Dunn. I don't think she had a clue as to what he's really like but has found out some vital and terrifying things about him. I hope she walks away from that swine if she hasn't already. I couldn't help thinking watching her rebuttal testimony against him that she had come to the realization that he's not at all what she thought he was.

As for his continued shots as the car with the kids was fleeing I don't think he was thinking at all. I believe absolutely that he's one of those people that should never be allowed to have a gun because they can't control themselves and DON'T think when they reach for it. This all happened because of Dunn's irrational behavior and that he had his "gun muscles" going on that overrode his brain. Had he actually thought about it reasonably, he wouldn't have done it. He got so enraged he went out of control and wasn't thinking at all rationally, which is exactly the sort of person who should never be allowed anywhere near a gun. He has unreasonable irrational anger issues and no impulse control.

[bravenak]

54. His fiancé seemed like she was scared of him.

She did not want to be there at all, and did not lie for him. She's probably relieved she won't be looking at his ugly mug tonight.
Sitting next to the man that fired all of those bullets probably scared the life out of her, she probably was scared to escape him or leave him since he had just shot up a car full of people. She was more in fear for her life than he ever was that evening.

He's like that guy that gets a gun and can't wait for an opportunity to HAVE to use it. I'm sure he enjoyed every trigger pull.

[TorchTheWitch]

57. that's why I think he continued firing as the car was fleeing

He was enjoying it so much that he couldn't make himself stop when he had to know there is no self-defense when the "threat" is fleeing and never once shot back at you. Ten shots when 7 of them were when the car was fleeing is enjoyment and being totally out of control.

I feel really bad for the fiance. I think her anxiety issues though apparently she's always had them to some degree were because of being so afraid of him and that he might get off. She was a very sympathetic witness on rebuttal. I just can't figure how Dunn was able to hide his true self from her, but she did come off as a very meek and obliging person in some ways much like a little girl. I can't imagine how she felt with Dunn on the stand using HER for so many of his excuses, like it was her that wanted him to keep the gun in the car when they got back to the hotel, the pizza was for her because she had an upset stomach, etc. I also think that's where Dunn got the idea about saying that after he found out that the boy died that he went to the bathroom and vomitted... I absolutely think that SHE did, and he used that experience and applied it to himself. I can't even imagine what she was going through having to be with him before he was arrested and with his using HER for many excuses had to be a huge red flag about what kind of person he really is. I hope that she's relieved that he won't be getting out of prison.

[bravenak]

58. That thing about the vomiting, I thought that too.

I don't think he felt one bit sick, but I'm sure she did. Every dumb thing he did he applied to her if he could. He shot cause he was in fear for himself AND his fiancée, he ordered pizza for HER upset stomach, SHE wanted to go home so he waited to call the police until the swat team was ready to take him. No wonder she testified against him. I believe she wanted to go back and check on the kid he shot, and she was sick with worry.

I'm glad that when he relives pulling that trigger, he's locked up in a secure housing unit, waiting for his breakfast of reconstituted eggs and almost bad milk.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

71. Who orders a pizza to calm an upset stomach?/nt

[Politicalboi]

59. The interview with Dunns neighbor said

That Dunn usually took women who were from other countries so he could make them think they need him, or they would go to jail. He manipulated them, and scared them. I hope she sleeps good tonight.

[TorchTheWitch]

60. that interview is what made me feel for her

I'm glad that she will never have to worry about Dunn coming after her, and he'll be safely locked away in jail. I can't even imagine what on earth that woman has gone through.

[raccoon]

65. Hope she doesn't get involved with another Dunn. "We are comfortable with the familiar,

even if it is painful."

[ReRe]

74. Dunn was clearly a psychopath

I predict he commits suicide before he gets to the big house. And if he doesn't, then he will be given the Jeffrey Dahmer treatment once he does get there.

[raccoon]

66. Great post. nt

[JustAnotherGen]

80. Mr Gen

Who I understand chit chatted with you last night DVR'd it for me - and I have to agree . . . The look on his face was priceless!

[bravenak]

85. I loved it so much!!

I keep replaying it over and over. His smug face turned to terrified. He never saw it coming. Now I'm waiting for George Zimmerman to get some of that justice he deserves. I mean I like him homeless and everything, but it will be nice to forget he exists.

[Brigid]

5. He hasn't won anything.

Except a retrial on the murder one charge.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Hence the Pyrrhic victory./nt

[rudolph the red]

33. A Pyrrhic victory requires a victory,

he lost. There is no Pyrrhic victory.

[BlueCheese]

63. You know what's worse than a Pyrrhic victory?

A Pyrrhic defeat.

[Laxman]

11. What Do You Mean By "Victory"....

he didn't win anything. He was found guilty on four counts and will be tried again on the fifth. It's highly likely that the failure to reach a verdict on that count was because jurors couldn't agree on the degree of that count, not because they didn't want t convict him. He's going to jail for a long time on the four counts he was convicted on and he is probably going down on the fifth.

Now its possible, but not likely, that there was a holdout for "not guilty" on that murder charge. We will probably never know. But we may if a juror or two decides to talk. I think its far more probable that there were one or more holdouts for 1st degree murder who wouldn't compromise. I don't know that I would have if I were on the jury. And if you ask 100 people here on DU, you'll get likely get a wide range of opinions on what each person would have done in a similar circumstance. If you believed he was guilty of 1st degree murder, would you have compromised to 2nd or even manslaughter just to return a conviction?

I've tried over 100 jury trials in my lifetime and assuming you know what happened in the jury room is a losing game. You just don't know. "Pre-meditated" is a tricky instruction. I know what it means because I was a prosecutor. Going back and getting the gun out of the glove compartment IS pre-meditation. Some jurors might have gotten that, some might think it means having a plan. That's the way deliberations go.

Now he's facing re-trial on the murder charge alone-as a convicted felon. He's going down on that charge too.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Hence the Pyrrhic victory (REDUX)/NT

[DonViejo]

72. Thanks much for the explanation and discussion...

I was wondering what constituted pre-meditation and you've explained it very well. Thanks much!

[Yo_Mama]

73. Yeah, just on the murder charge he's more likely get Murder 1

in the next trial. If I were his attorney I'd try to plead him out on the Murder 2 now. I don't know that the prosecutor will accept it.

[freshwest]

13. Michael Dunn's life from now on:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. The ghost of Mr. Rogers must have stole his sweater back.?NT

[PoliticAverse]

16. What victory? n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. Hence the Pyrrhic victory (REDUX)

We are supposed to be the "smart ones".

[bravenak]

23. DAMN!

How many time do you get to say that tonight. Gotta put a definition of Pyrrhic up top. Sad.

[PoliticAverse]

32. In order for a victory to be 'pyrrhic' there must be a victory. You think Dunn was victorious today?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. This is like a debate of "what the meaning of is is"

The victory is that he "hung" the jury on the offense that carried with it the maximum penalty. That victory was a Pyrrhic victory, i.e, a hollow one because he was found guilty of all the charges that carried with it a less onerous penalty. Those charges , when you add em up, carry a maximum penalty of 105 years.

[bravenak]

43. The phony victory was NOT getting convicted of 1st degree murder.

A mistrial for a defendant is not a loss. So yes, he won on that one as he was NOT convicted, although he may lose later.

[Laxman]

45. No, You Need To Define....

the term Pyrrhic Victory. This situation does not meet that definition. Pyrrhic Victory is a costly victory. There was no "victory" here. Just a temporary reprieve from final judgement.

[bravenak]

47. He won by not losing on murder one.

Cost him 3 attempted murder charges to hang the jury with that stupid ass story. That stupid ass story won him a hung jury on murder, that stupid ass story cost him a conviction on 3 attempted murder charges.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

83. Agree. I have to think they were a little blind sided by the disconnect.

I have to say I too am a little perplexed by the apparent juror(s) logic. Perplexed enough that I don't think it is logic at all.


Please allow me a little foray in to a hypothetical (or mental masturbation):

If I was a juror and I truly believed the kid had a shotgun and seriously menaced Dunn with said shotgun, I wouldn't vote to convict on the attempted murder charges. At that point, in my mind, all bets are off and it's OK to shoot at the car. I'm not going to put someone away for life if they had a shotgun pointed at them and TRULY were in fear for their life.

But I don't believe Dunn's story for one second.

I have a theory that maybe the bigot hold-out on the jury dug his heels in on the murder charge but relented on the attempted murder charges - thinking he was doing his "cause" a favor.

[PoliticAverse]

25. I know what 'pyrrhic victory' means, there is no victory at all here.

He was convicted of several counts and the mistrial will result in him being tried again.

[WinkyDink]

30. The PV was in NO VERDICT ON MURDER ONE. The future remains to be seen.

[PoliticAverse]

37. He will be retried, a mistrial is more of a stalemate than any type of victory. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. Anything short of a guilty verdict is a win for the defendant. It's much better than a stalemate.

But much to Mr. Allen's chagrin he was found guilty of four other charges that carry a maximum penalty of one hundred and five years, when you add em up.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. He hung the jury on the charge that came with the most punishment.

That would be considered a victory if not for those pesky other charges that carry a cumulative penalty of 75 to 105 years that got in the way. I'm pretty sure that has to be consider a "Pyrrhic victory".

[PoliticAverse]

42. If a mistrial is a 'pyrrhic victory' it would be so because of the lawyer's costs.

If you are going to spend the rest of your life in jail and are going to retried on a murder
charge that's just a loss.

[TDale313]

41. Ya may have to explain it to 'em

Some here either aren't getting it, or do and forgot the sarcasm smilie.

[arthritisR_US]

22. I had noticed that the smugness was missing from his face. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. Well, at least he hung the jury on the first count.

He should be looking forward to the re-trial. Sitting in the courtroom has to be better than sitting in prison.

[arthritisR_US]

29. Indeed, it will be befitting of his narcissistic self. nt

[WinkyDink]

27. Don't people know what is meant by "Pyrrhic Victory"? Or how to Google?

[arthritisR_US]

35. The victory to date, of not being found to have murdered a young lad and

yet the "lesser" offences are his demise. Ah to win, but at what cost?

[Jenoch]

28. I don't understand why the thought would even come up?

What am I missing?

[etherealtruth]

40. How could he

At 47, 60 years most certainly = life in prison.

Though I do hope he is retried and convicted for the murder of an unarmed "kid"

[Cha]

48. "Pyrrhic victory" Definition & Etymology

snip//

"A Pyrrhic victory is a victory with such a devastating cost that it is tantamount to defeat. Someone who wins a Pyrrhic victory has been victorious in some way; however, the heavy toll negates any sense of achievement or profit (another term for this would be "hollow victory&quot ."

The phrase Pyrrhic victory is named after Greek King Pyrrhus of Epirus, whose army suffered irreplaceable casualties in defeating the Romans at Heraclea in 280 BC and Asculum in 279 BC during the Pyrrhic War. After the latter battle, Plutarch relates in a report by Dionysius:.."

more..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory

thank you, DSB~

[Boom Sound 416]

62. +1

[BainsBane]

61. I hope they retry him

Jordan Davis deserves justice.

[Vinca]

67. Does anyone know if the sentences are consecutive or concurrent on the convictions and

if he has to do the maximum or if the judge can sentence him to less? I hope he does 60 years, but depending on the sentencing laws it could be a whole lot less.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

70. I believe it's up to the judge.

I would like for an attorney to weigh in.

iMHO, since somebody died in the underlying crime I suspect the judge makes the terms consecutive.

Oh, and he faces a maximum 105 years in jail; thirty years on each attempted murder charge, and fifteen years on the firing a missile charge.

[rocktivity]

75. In Florida, sentences for crimes involving guns MUST be consecutive

Last edited Sun Aug 30, 2020, 01:22 PM - Edit history (5)

There were three victims, therefore three separate crimes, plus the crime of firing into a vehicle -- and because a gun was involved, the judge does not have the authority to run the sentences concurrently. In addition, he'll have to serve at least 85% of his sentence -- roughly 50 to 90 years of that 60 to 105.


rocktivity

[DemocratSinceBirth]

76. That would make him 112 upon his release./NT

[OldHippieChick]

78. Mark O'Meara (no, not my favorite person)

said that Florida law required these sentences to be consecutive because they are separate offenses.

[bluestateguy]

77. Going to jail for 20 years is not a pyrric victory

Granted, it may not be total victory for justice, but this guy has nothing to celebrate.

He's going to jail for a long time, and he will probably be raped repeatedly in prison (gosh, what a shame that is).

[DemocratSinceBirth]

79. Actually the minimum he can go away for is 65 years and the maximum is 105 years.

I don't think he lives to 112 or 152.

[bluestateguy]

81. Yep

I'm sorry for Jordan's family, but the community will be safer now that a bad man is going away for the rest of his life. Our justice system is predicated on doing justice for all, not just one person or family.

[Fla Dem]

82. Victory? The only victory Mr Dunn got was the music was turned down for Jordan Davis forever.

So if this is the victory you refer to, then yes it is a Pyrrhic victory, for it came at a great cost for both Mr. Dunn and Mr. Davis and his family.

[rocktivity]

84. Ties always go to the runner -- Pyrrhic victory.

Last edited Sat May 29, 2021, 11:44 AM - Edit history (8)

Though he wasn't convicted of the murder, Dunn wasn't acquitted, either. But even if he were to be re-tried on the murder charge and acquitted, it would take AT LEAST sixty-five years before he could take advantage of it, so describing it as a Pyrrhic victory is correct. Meanwhile, he can look forward to sixty-five years of bragging to his predominantly black cellmates that he got away with murdering a black person!


rocktivity