Where are the all the mainstream religious leaders ?

[jaysunb]

Why are they not out shouting from the roof tops that these so called evangelicals are not practicing Christanity ?
Why haven't they organized to let the world know that everybody claiming to be a Christian may not be....people don't seem to have a problem differentiating between extremist Muslims and the main stream.
How do these ministers look their congregants in the eye on Sunday and not rail against all the things being said and done by those who they claim affinity with ?

Is it fear ? Is it laziness? Or do they (and their members) actually approve and agree w/ these people ?

Has anyone ever questioned their minister,rabbi,imam,etc. about the obvious divide between those who get all the attention and the majority ?

Just wondering....

[Arugula Latte]

1. Good question.

The silence is deafening.

Of course, I'm not surprised though.

[Zalatix]

9. Churches are afraid to speak up, lest they anger the people who donate to the collection plate.

[Lint Head]

2. As someone raised in a family with preachers and ministers galore, I've heard this said more than

once. "Sometimes the messenger of the gospel is not the perfect choice but anyone giving the message is good. We should not question God's choice." Of course this is total B.S. If one believes God is perfect then he will choose perfection in a messenger. They have a hard time criticizing each other. Jim Jones claimed to be "Of God" just before causing the deaths of hundreds of followers.

[jaysunb]

3. Me too...family of ministers

and church people. They were anti Martin Luther King for the first 6 or 7 years of the movement.

I thought they'd learned by now, but I guess not.

[bmbmd]

4. Jim Wallis is out there, working his tail off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sojourners

[Initech]

5. The far right crazies have taken over mainstream religion.

I don't think there's any in between anymore - it's either you're a hardcore fundie nutjob or you're a Unitarian Universalist - there's no middle anymore.

[sarcasmo]

8. Exactly, crazies front and center running the cirucus.

[Initech]

14. Circus is definitely an apt description of what's going on.

[marlakay]

6. Because they are not judgemental

The ones you are talking about are. The evangelicals think they are better and right and say so. The mainstream ones you are talking about don't believe in speaking up and saying we are right you are wrong, most of them believe in peace and acceptance of all faiths. They probably don't agree with them but to make a huge deal out of saying so is not part of the peacefulness they have.

It's hard to explain, but I understand it.

[jaysunb]

10. I understand what you're saying, and I think

it may very well be so, but it also goes back to my original question:why are they not defending the faith against those claim it but pervert it ?
At the least,I'd think that they'd see where their silence could appear to be approval.

[Zalatix]

7. I'm glad that someone else sees this

Check out what I had to say about this a while back:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12182748

[jaysunb]

12. Greed was one of the main sins...

notice I said WAS. :

[kwassa]

11. Mainstream leaders are proclaiming these things.

The media doesn't report them because the mainstream leaders are too sensible and not controversial or shocking enough.

In other words, sensible beliefs are not news.

[jaysunb]

13. Very true, but

I still can't understand why in this age of sophistication they wouldn't organize and demand rebuttle time whenever and wherever the record needs to be set straight.

And you are right, no MSM reporter would dare challenge a man of "GAWD" as to the verasity his personal appointment and communications by or w/ the above.

[longship]

15. That's what us "angry" atheists have been asking for years

Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris, Dennett, Stenger, and many other prominent atheists are dumb founded as to why the religious progressives are silent.

Sam Harris was the first, I think, to explicitly say that the liberal religions are equally to blame for today's religious devide. Their silence is tacit approval for the lunacy.

I am 100% with Harris on this, and Dawkins, and Hitchens, and Dennett, and Stenger, and anybody else who will stand up and say that it isn't just fundamentalism that's the enemy, it's religion of all sorts.

I won't change my mind until prominent people of faith stand next to me and say that things have gone much too far, that religion, if it is to exist, must refrain from intrusions on government and trampling on people's rights.

We now have a national party whose sole agenda is one of advancing a Christian theocracy in this country. If you disagree with that, I don't think you've been paying enough attention.

I'm pissed about this, especially towards progressive religious people who should above all see what's happening. I hear them here on DU, but where are their religious leaders? They need to be speaking truth to the lies, too. Their voices are utterly silent.

For shame. A pox on all of their houses.

[jaysunb]

16. +1 n/t

[cbayer]

20. Progressive religious people, including some religious leaders,

are routinely besieged with ridicule, disdain and mockery in the Religion group here for doing exactly what you are saying they should do.

If they can't even speak up safely on this site, what makes you think they can do so elsewhere?

Their voices are far from silent, as a reading of the articles in the Religion group will show. But the attempt to silence them on a progressive site should be a clue as to why you can't hear them.

[Mariana]

24. Saying those things to DUer's isn't going to accomplish much

even if no one gives them a hard time. Most everyone here, religious or not, is already progressive. We don't need to be told that what the fundies are doing is wrong. We already know that. It's the fundies that need to be told, and the wishy-washy religious who go along with the fundies because they're all (insert religious affiliation here).

[cbayer]

27. There are a lot of progressive religious leaders speaking out.

The Religion group has articles daily that do just that, and they do it on mainstream sites where all kinds of people congregate.

Progressive religious leaders are speaking out against the extremists on a daily basis... and loudly.

The OP claims it is not happening, when in fact it is.

[longship]

30. Well, I can respect individual beliefs

But I do reserve my right to utterly condemn the clergy who, having allegedly have studied the subject, should know better.

What can I say to the poor misinformed person who, having been told throughout their life that they would spend eternity in torment in Hell for believing that the universe is less than 10,000 years old? I will respectfully argue with them.

But these numbnut assholes on TV who get on their high haunches and state (with no equivocation) that they speak for (or are on a mission from) God, I have nothing but condemnation. This is the most extreme of hubris for which I reserve my highest disdain. Fuck all of them.

And especially fuck them who insist on mixing their religious beliefs with politics (or government) and science, whether they are pastors or not. This because, if there is one story history unequivocally tells, is that those mixtures are universally toxic. It's been that way since time immemorial and I imagine it will forevermore be in the future.

That is what we all, both the atheists and the religious, must fight with great vigor. Therein lies the danger.

One more thing. If you don't think that the US Republican party hasn't been taken over by a fundamentalist, theocratic cabal we need to have a very serious discussion.

[cbayer]

32. I agree with much you have said, particularly the part about how the religious

and non-religious must fight the extremists with vigor.

I don't know what gave you the idea that I am not aware of what the fundamentalist RW Christians have done to our political system. I am acutely aware of this.

[hifiguy]

21. +2

[RZM]

31. I see your point, but

As long as you're saying that 'the enemy' is 'religion of all sorts' can you really expect people of faith to stand with you?

Look at it from their perspective. They might not like the fundamentalism, but they do like faith. Why should they help somebody whose target isn't just fundamentalism, but faith itself?

[cbayer]

17. What makes you think they are not?

Have you been visiting mainline churches or reading from their sites?

They are out there doing it all the time. Mainline religious leaders have been trying to take back Christianity (as well as other religions) for years.

Just because they are not getting a lot of press, doesn't mean it's not happening.

[cbdo2007]

18. $$$

Unlike a real job where you may be unlikely to turn in your boss or your company (the people paying you), you will many times overlook that and turn them in because you have to do what is right.

Religion on the other hand is different. They know all of their parishoners are sinners - that's how they keep making money. They preach hope and that people will change eventually if they come to church long enough and give enough money, so why would they turn in their own parishoners for hypicorisy (sp?) when they believe and hope that one day they will change??

The whole system is corrupt and those of us Christians who've had enough of it just stay home.

[hifiguy]

19. I am sure they are out there.

But the real question is why doesn't the M$M ever ask them to speak?

We all know the answer to that, I assume.

[cbayer]

22. Bill Moyers is probably the most vocal example, but I rarely see him anywhere

but on his own show.

Rev. Sharpton and Rev. Jackson are certainly seen more often and they do speak loudly and forcefully.

[raouldukelives]

33. Yep. nt

[jaysunb]

35. That's exctly what I mean.

I can catch the fundies at any time day or night on any channel, but the 2 rational guys, whose names I can't recall, occasionally appear in super egregious moments.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

23. Where are all the moderates?

Last edited Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:02 AM - Edit history (1)

Conservatives love to complain about Islamic moderates not denouncing the Islamic extremists. Where are Christian moderates denouncing the Christian extremists- or why aren't they being given more airtime?

[jaysunb]

36. +1000 n/t

[gratuitous]

25. For some reason, we don't attract near the media attention

Calm, reasoned discourse from people of faith isn't in high demand. And what's probably worse, anytime a person of faith steps up, the ignorati lump them in with the worst elements of those who don a mantle of religion as a cloak for their own bigotry. That bigotry runs both ways, but in so many venues, including the present one, it's allowable to point out prejudice in only one direction.

Progressive religious folks are fighting on one leg with both hands tied, and a peanut gallery chorus hooting that we're not doing enough, while that same chorus doesn't lift a finger to help.

[cbayer]

28. Agree

[Bandit]

26. About three years ago a "Preacher" in Alaska woke up in the middle of the night

after hearing a noise. He grabbed his gun and raced next door to the Church and shot and killed two boys that were running away. He was cheered as a hero by his peers, so don't be expecting anything from other "Preachers" in this instance either....Jesus would have done the same thing you know.. If only Jesus had an Uzi...

[LeftinOH]

29. Doing their actual jobs instead of being media whores. True,

there are plenty of mainstream religious leaders who *could* publicly denounce the fundie nutbags, but that would generally interfere with their primary focus. Most of them are not in it for the publicity.

[ellisonz]

34. The Buddhists have been pretty consistent...

I am convinced that everyone can develop a good heart and a sense of universal responsibility with or without religion.

I believe all suffering is caused by ignorance. People inflict pain on others in the selfish pursuit of their happiness or satisfaction. Yet true happiness comes from a sense of inner peace and contentment, which in turn must be achieved through the cultivation of altruism, of love and compassion and elimination of ignorance, selfishness and greed.

The problems we face today, violent conflicts, destruction of nature, poverty, hunger, and so on, are human-created problems which can be resolved through human effort, understanding and the development of a sense of brotherhood and sisterhood. We need to cultivate a universal responsibility for one another and the planet we share. Although I have found my own Buddhist religion helpful in generating love and compassion, even for those we consider our enemies, I am convinced that everyone can develop a good heart and a sense of universal responsibility with or without religion.

-The Dalai Lama, Nobel Acceptance Speech, 1989.