Here's why I've given up on voting:

[MannyGoldstein]

Oh #%^* you, of course I vote, all the time. OK, I missed 2000 because of an emergency that had me on a plane all day, but somehow Gore managed to win Massachusetts without me.

Know what? Every other Liberal I know votes enthusiastically in every election. We may not be enthusiastic about the Third Way nudniks that are on the ballot, but we're enthusiastic about making sure the Republicans lose.

Know what else? There is a group that sits out elections when they've been screwed over by the people they voted for: Study after study shows that independents sit it out when they get abused, but Liberals go back for more. (But our time is coming... and soon!)

So can we please stop the bizarre yammering about Liberals needing to #%^*ing vote this time? We vote every #%^*ing time. Go tell the Independents to get out there and vote!

Better yet, tell elected Democrats to actually do stuff that will make Independents *want* to vote for us. After all, two-thirds of Americans hold the Liberal position on virtually any subject you can name - unions, free trade, minimum wage, military budgets, Social Security, Medicare-for-All... you name it. It's not hard to make America ecstatic, they just need to pull their heads out of Wall Street's fundamental orifice and vote for traditional Democratic stuff. Really easy.

[LittleBlue]

1. Well said, Manny. K&R

[ProSense]

2. I blame everyone who votes for the mess we're in

The "party loyalty" is killing us.

Why do you hate America?

[upaloopa]

87. You have no right to blame the players when you sit out the game

That is so f...ing lame. You're not an innocent bystander. Elections are a zero sum game. You should at least vote against someone.

[Armstead]

3. Nah. Its easier to browbeat "the firebag left"

Actually pushing for policies that address the systemic problems of today might excite independents.

But it would piss off the Corporate backers.

[quinnox]

4. +1. I voted for Obama, and yet I'm the bad guy for not being happy about

drone attacks killing innocent people, the NSA spying on us up the yin-yang, and Obama's terrible environmental record. In my best valley girl imitation - Whatever!

[demigoddess]

19. would you rather Rand Paul

or Ted Cruz do that sort of thing? Because you know they will. Perhaps even worse. With Obama we had a chance.

[quinnox]

21. That is what is so sickening. Rand Paul is against the NSA spying and the drone strikes

There should be a ton of Democrats who take that position. Instead, there is maybe one or two, and they are isolated voices in the wilderness.

[1StrongBlackMan]

76. No ...

rand paul is against drones strikes against enemy combatants, outside of the U.S; but would support a drone strike on a U.S. citizen that robs a liquor store.

With statements like that ... how ... why ... would Anyone claim to know anything about what rand paul is for or against?

[JustAnotherGen]

102. Rand Paul is ten kinds of effed up for that 1strong

http://www.thewire.com/politics/2013/04/rand-paul-drones-liquor-store/64526/

The original Rand Paul Quote
"I have never argued against any technology being used against having an imminent threat, an act of crime going on… If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and $50 in cash, I don't care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him. But it's different if they want to come fly over your hot tub, or your yard just because they want to do surveillance on everyone, and they want to watch your activities."

^That's Rand Paul^

Then he dialed back - as people in that family tend to do - like when they pal around with Klans Men:

That makes it sound like he's cool with a drone killing a small-time robber (or a police officer killing that robber!) after a crime is committed, and even if someone's life isn't in danger. But Paul instead that's not what he meant. Instead, he now says, "Armed drones should not be used in normal crime situations. They only may only be considered in extraordinary, lethal situations where there is an ongoing, imminent threat. I described that scenario previously during my Senate filibuster."

[1StrongBlackMan]

105. But by all means ...

let's pretend that we know what that opportunistic idiot believes or will do.

[JustAnotherGen]

107. He is very opportunistic

He'd put his head in a lion's mouth if he thought the lion would give him money or vote for him.

[1StrongBlackMan]

110. LOL ...

Actually, I doubt that. He would, however, TELL people that he would put his head in the lion's mouth, as a matter of principle, and challenge his political opponents to do likewise.

And then, sit back laughing when the "supporters" of his political opponents take him seriously, asking their elected officials, why they're not putting their heads in the lion's mouth, just like paul?

[JustAnotherGen]

112. Nailed it!

[BelgianMadCow]

132. I hope you can see that opposing Obama and supporting Paul are two different things

and the "guilt by association with someone saying similar things" is a disguised ad hominem. Not saying that you're using it, and I think it's fair to point out who holds which position, but it IS being done right now.

[1StrongBlackMan]

133. I agree ...

" opposing Obama and supporting Paul are two different things."

My larger point is ... Why would anyone claim to know what paul stands for? He is a proven opportunist, willing to "massage" his position (to the point of contradiction) depending on his audience.

[BelgianMadCow]

134. It can be worthwile to guess at or speculate about Paul's positions

as he obviously is an important player; but indeed, trying to find truth in someone who shifts with the wind is an excercise in futility.

[1StrongBlackMan]

135. And that brings about ...

a secondary point: paul is only an important player BECAUSE the left pays so much attention to him. Prior to the civil libertarian left taking notice of, and played up, his (imo) opportunistic civil libertarian bent, he was just another batty goper, playing the libertarian.

[quinnox]

120. well, he is wrong to say domestic drones are ok. But he is right to be against the foreign drones

that is the part I was referring, I wasn't aware of the domestic drones comment.

[1StrongBlackMan]

122. Why do you believe ANYTHING paul says he believes in? n/t

[sulphurdunn]

62. Your statement is only valid

if there is no other option to the handpicked candidates of the two political parties. Third parties don't win elections, but once they garner about 5% of the vote they determine who does, and that is about the only political power left to Americans.

[hueymahl]

81. Strategic voting for third parties is a good thing.

For example, if you live in a swing state, every vote counts. But if your state is locked up, by all means, please vote for that third party candidate. It DOES affect what the major parties do. And it is a safe way to vote your protest without risking the bad guys winning.

[tavalon]

100. You know what? I'm sick of this too. Please stop.

Most of us vote all the time, every election, off year or not. And these "would you rather ________" are beyond tiresome. Duh. You know? We also vote mostly straight "Democratic" ticket, even though third wayers are not really Democrats. Okay, I'll admit, In the smaller elections, I vote for any Socialist I can find. We elected two this year.

I'm a socialist who caucuses with Democrats.

Saying what you said is both obvious and irritating.

[philly_bob]

154. "I'm a socialist who caucuses with Democrats."

Well said. Thanks.

I'll be using that line....

[sammy27932003]

23. I agree---whatever.

I voted for Obama the second time.I am not going to vote Hillary.She helped author the TPP and publicly approved NSA and drones.WHATEVER.

[tavalon]

101. So she says things out loud that Obama doesn't

There are only two things I can see that make her different from Obama, the color of her skin and the lack of a penis. If she runs, no one will run against her and I'll vote for her. I have so many others I would rather but if she is the choice, I will vote for her. It's my duty, whether it makes a damn bit of difference.

[VanillaRhapsody]

26. because some of us are not myopic...

ANY President would disappoint you...YOU will never be satisfied...and their aren't enough "independents" to win by themselves...

Some of us look at the big picture...its always a mixed bag....but are we putting points up on the board? You damn skippy we are!

It may not be the "blow out" game you expected!

[SMC22307]

66. An idiotic sports metaphor.

Go, team.

[VanillaRhapsody]

94. When did Metaphors become against the rules?

and you aren't saying that it is a wrong metaphor and why....just that YOU think it is idiotic!

speaks volumes!

[SMC22307]

121. Who said they were against the rules?

Come up for air, VR. Or don't, the histrionics are amusing.

[VanillaRhapsody]

149. Oh here is where you accuse me of histrionics....

I almost forgot that is part of the manual

[SMC22307]

155. Hey, if the comfortable shoe fits.

[tavalon]

103. Reading is your friend

If you read Manny's post again, you'll see that you actually agree. Reading headers and getting pissy just makes you look lazy, too lazy to read the OP.

[VanillaRhapsody]

152. Don't tell me what I didn't read....

I do NOT agree...and I reserve the right to not...and do you call men "pissy" too? I kind of doubt it!

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

5. If only eleven Virginians had thought like this...

they could have handed the Virginia senate back to TeaPublicans.

Voting works when people vote.

Or better yet, the system works when people with strong opinions elect to run for office themselves.

[MNBrewer]

14. Did you even read the OP?

[MannyGoldstein]

15. Distracted by a Scarlet Tanager, no doubt. nt

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

16. Yes, as a matter of fact, I did. Twice.

[SMC22307]

127. Third time's the charm. (n/t)

[Raine1967]

17. +1 (Better yet: Plus ELEVEN )

I am grateful for those 11 votes!

[adirondacker]

83. +12! nt

[NCTraveler]

97. Ohhh look........ a Cardinal. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. "Not as bad" is no longer good enough as a sales pitch.

[840high]

12. I'm with you.

[VanillaRhapsody]

28. You'll settle for the "Bad" then I suppose...

because driving people away from voting is what you are doing and what you will get in return.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. How many?

How many people have I driven away from voting? Thousands? Hundreds? You?

I don't vote for "bad", whether "not as bad", or "worse than bad".

You?

[VanillaRhapsody]

38. You really do only see small picture huh?

it's pretty amazing really...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. What makes you think that?

I'd venture to say that seeing one party as the answer is pretty "small picture". And, that ignoring the faults of politicians and the system that gives them power is pretty "small picture".

A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right. Thomas Paine

[VanillaRhapsody]

41. considering there is only one other VIABLE party?

that's not the kind of small picture I mean....

Meaning I didn't expect to get the brass ring....the magical unicorn....or the flying car.

But I have seen "progress"....which is a far cry from what we saw when the Crazy Train was running the show for the previous 8 yrs.

THAT Big Picture....

You want to see real motivation for expansive progress....Get all three branches!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. He had that when he was elected.

Remember?

Sorry, but I'm interested in changing the system, not just tweaking it. I'm not a conservative or a 3rd Way moderate, I vote for progressives. If a Democrat (as I am) is a progressive, he/she will get my vote. "Not as bad" gets a no sale.

[VanillaRhapsody]

45. and he only had 60 in the House...for 2 months....not filibuster proof.

we lost the Lion Ted Kennedy....and THEN we lost the mid-terms....

[SMC22307]

70. We lost the 2010 midterm because the wishy-washy middle...

wasn't happy with the two previous years, particularly the economy/jobs and Obamacare. Obama and the Dems blew it in early 2009 -- they should grabbed power by the nuts like Republicans would have. And who fucking cares if Republicans filibuster? Attempts won't always be successful. Americans who desperately wanted progress/solutions might have been turned off by it, which might have led to a better outcome in 2010.

[VanillaRhapsody]

89. Who cares if Republicans Filibuster?

If you don't have a 60 vote majority you CANNOT break a Filibuster therefore they ARE successful...THAT is how it worked.

Sorry ...THEY "fucking" care even if you don't.

[SwampG8r]

156. so how many actual stand up and speak for days filibusters did the gop do?

or did they even try at all?
the whole "filibuster" meme is bull unless someone actually filibusters
if no one actually does it then its just theatre designed to give everyone political cover

[VanillaRhapsody]

157. It wouldn't make any difference....the goal of the actual filibuster is to attempt to

change the minds of the opponents....

Did Wendy Davis' valiant attempt change the vote in Texas?

[SwampG8r]

159. so...............none? is that the number you are going with?zero?nt

[beerandjesus]

63. It's amazing to me how wishing Democrats were more progressive = "seeing the small picture"

It makes me wonder if you even pay attention to policies. Jesse Helms was a Democrat once; it sounds like you'd be just as happy with someone like him as with someone like Sherrod Brown, because the only thing that matters is that our team wins. Actually looking at policies and forming opinions about them is "only seeing the small picture".

Seriously, I don't believe you really think that: Can't you concede that Democrats might conceivably stand to benefit from progressive policies??

[CrispyQ]

73. If the dems actually advocated progressive policies,

they might not need all that corporate cash to win office. Oh, but they like that cash! Living large is such fun.

[VanillaRhapsody]

158. Okay...YOU run without "lovin' that cash"

see how far elected YOU get!

[VanillaRhapsody]

93. That is a misinterpretation of the conversation

I thank you for not putting words in my mouth...

seeing ONLY one issue not the bulk of them...is what I called "only seeing the small picture"

But you knew that right?

[beerandjesus]

119. No, it's a fair representation of what you said.

1. Manny rightly points out that it's not liberals who stay home from the polls, it's independents. Observes that maybe moving to the left might be a good strategy for Democrats for a change.

2. You say he's just driving people away from posting--completely missing the point of the OP, not to mention the irony of the subject line--add an ad hominem attack (YOU would be disappointed in anybody except a UNICORN!), and fall back on the old saw about the only viable party, etc.


You consistently attack people for criticizing Democrats, regardless of how principled or well-founded their criticisms are. And let's face it, we all know that Manny's voting for Democrats, just like most of the posters on here; there are just a lot of us on here who would like to see Democrats cater to their base with, oh, maybe 25% of enthusiasm with which Republicans cater to theirs. But to you, this apparently is treason; it's just a team sport.

My conclusion: The (D) is all that matters to you. Sherrod Brown, John Tester, Ted Kennedy, Michael Dukakis, Joe Manchin, Mary Landrieu, Zell Miller, Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms... makes no difference, as long as there's a (D).

I suspect you can't counter my point, because to do so, you might have to say that there's such a thing as a Democrat who isn't God's gift to American politics. For most of us, this is obvious; I don't understand why you can't concede the obvious.

[VanillaRhapsody]

150. I said it...I think I KNOW what I said...AND what I meant...

thank you very much!

[1StrongBlackMan]

79. Bingo ...

Mission Exposed.

Why else would someone proclaim ... time and again ... that they will not vote, if not to attempt to influence others to do the same?

[tavalon]

106. Frustation and feeling like it just doesn't matter

I vote but I get the frustration and the feeling of futility.

[1StrongBlackMan]

109. We all do ...

when we don't get what we want, when we want it.

[SMC22307]

128. The problem is with those who allow themselves to be influenced...

not with those expressing dissatisfaction with the rightward lurch of the of Democratic Party.

[1StrongBlackMan]

130. Okay, right ...

"All I did we tell her/him, day after day, how worthless he/she was ... It's not my fault that he/she came to believe they were worthless! He/she should've listened to me."

[tavalon]

104. I agree with you and yet,

since I believe we are in the period called inverted totalitarianism, voting is imperative to keep them from pulling down the curtain. We know what's behind that curtain, but when the end game comes, there will be a lot of blood, yours, mine and too little of theirs.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

115. I always vote.

I vote based on issues and policies rather than "not as bad" politicians or parties.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

[swilton]

114. I'm with you TyL

Read the tealeaves in 08 as well.

[Blaukraut]

7. The problem isn't Liberals not voting, or Conservatives not voting

It's not even Independents who go back and forth and can't make up their minds. The biggest problem are those low interest voters who only turn out in presidential election years, but sit at home during off year elections. Give them an issue that will get them to the polls in an off year, and you win. Like the teabaggers and Obamacare in '10.

[VanillaRhapsody]

29. Sometimes the Midterms are even more important...

[VanillaRhapsody]

39. ^^^^^ THIS!!!

[merrily]

59. Minimum wage is this year's issue.

[SMC22307]

125. Thanks to Occupy and Moral Mondays for raising awareness...

on the issue of economic justice.

[1000words]

8. I always vote for the most progressive candidate on the ballot

"Making sure Republicans lose" is not how my participation is framed.

[840high]

13. That's why I became an Indy.

[Nay]

9. Yeah, what Manny said. nt

[ErikJ]

10. Scare the youth; Want to have $3 minimum wage? If not, vote Democratic!

[Scootaloo]

27. The youth votes; it's that the elder brackets counter their votes AND outnumber them

[ErikJ]

36. But Youth do NOT vote in mid-terms!

[cprise]

11. Everyone should vote, no matter what

If the system isn't fielding candidates your conscience can live with, then signify that fact by writing-in someone else. Don't give a free pass to a corrupt system.

[sabrina 1]

22. I think there will be a lot of write ins if Dems don't get Progressive Candidates to vote for this

time, and Manny is right about Independents, they will just stay home if they are not happy with the candidates, as they did in 2010 and we lost the House due to the Dem Leadership supporting all those Third Way candidates and refusing to back the Progressives.

I hope they learned the lesson. If voters wanted Republicans they would vote for the actual Republicans, not Republican lite with a D after their names.

[VanillaRhapsody]

31. There's always alot of write ins...

that's not at all unusual....its not even a valid threat. I am sure the Democrats are shaking in their boots.

Why don't you "Progressives" run some candidates? You hate the Dems so much....

[sabrina 1]

33. Did you forget about 2010? Apparently!

[VanillaRhapsody]

34. OHHH it was "Progressives" that stayed home and caused that...

hahahaha yeah right...

pffffftttt! raspberries!

[sabrina 1]

35. No, it was Independents who had come out in 2008, who were so disappointed in the Democratic Party

who stayed home in 2010 AND young people. What are you trying to say, you lost me somewhere along the way.

[VanillaRhapsody]

46. No it wasn't....it was overall lack of any group turning out....

its what always happens..a lot of people just don't vote in them in general. It was not some magical feat they pulled off...it wasn't a "one-off".

Not to mention the Rightwingers took a major blow having "the evil one" elected....and the knowledge that Obamacares was a referendum and it is staying.....so they were pissed and THEY turned out in droves...it was a referendum on Obama getting that elected...

and the wobbly low information voters that can't decide...end up just going with whichever "team" seems like a winner...because they just want to be on the winning side!

And now we face another one....the rightwingers are all mad again...and they will mobilize counting on our side blowing it off again...

[sabrina 1]

47. Don't you get tired of being wrong? The disappointment of the young voters in

the Dem leadership and of Independents, caused the loss of the House in 2010. We did try to warn the leadership that pushing Third Way policies would cost them in 2010, but they told us our 'ideas were retarded'. That included the young and the independents who voted Democratic in 2008. Even Pelosi begged Obama on two occasions to stop eg, 'blaming both parties' for where this country was.

There really is no doubt about it, it is all documented. But knock yourself out denying the facts. I hope the Leadership of the Party is not doing the same thing or we will have a repeat of 2010. It is entirely up to them now to support ONLY Progressive candidates and to stop ushing DLC/Third Way candidates on the people, they simply won't vote for them just as they refused to do in 2010. Which is why almost ALL the Progressives in Congress retained their seats and almost all the Blue Dogs/Third Way/Republican Lite lost theirs.

[VanillaRhapsody]

53. ahahahahah You are funny lady!

the Tea Party happened....plain and simple! They gained alot of seats....particularly Blue Dog Dem seats...in all actuality they did us one small favor....they took out half the Blue Dogs. So how you figure it was "you" staying home that swung the election....I think you are exaggerating for dramatic effect.

And besides.. you just admitted that you stayed home.in those midterms????? Serious???...and now you are HERE complaining about who is running the show and which issues are important for the Democratic Party like a Fair Weather friend...you should be ashamed...I don't have any sympathy for ya...who are you to judge?

[bvar22]

80. Don't you get tired of being perpetually WRONG?

Did liberals really stay home and cause the 2010 rout?

You know what I'm talking about. The claim that a bunch of liberals were so pissed off at Obama that they stayed home and this caused the 2010 rout. It's pervasive. I won't link to examples because it comes up so regularly I see no point singling anyone out.

So I went back to the exit polls and the picture I see shows nothing like that. If you are a proponent of this claim, I challenge you for empirical proof that some set of activist liberals "took their ball and went home" or whatever metaphor you prefer to make Obama's leftward critics appear childish and immature. Inside, the evidence I found that shows this just ain't so.

<snip>

Still the claim that petulant liberals punished Obama to their own detriment is repeated so often with such certitude, I thought I would request to see the proof of it, because I don't see it, in the most obvious place it would appear if it were there, the proportion and voting of actual liberals in comparable elections.

If you have some more complex explanation of how it really happened, I would like to see it, because all I see is the proportion of the voting population calling themselves "conservatives" grew tremendously at expense of those calling themselves "moderates." [font size=3] Either a bunch of moderates became conservatives, or moderates stayed home, or a lot of conservatives who usually stay home came out. Or some combination of those things.[/font] Yet any of those explanations would be tremendously at odds with the "blame the progressives" explanation.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/06/1003805/-Did-liberals-really-stay-home-and-cause-the-2010-rout#

[VanillaRhapsody]

84. baloney....a diary on Dailykos is your "evidence"?

ahahahqahahaoahahahahaha! It's a freaking blog!!!! ahahahahahaahahahahaha!

Read the freaking comments!!!!


hahahahahahaha....still laughing...

MAO

[bvar22]

86. No. The exit polls from 2010 are my evidence,

and, as we have all come to expect,
VanillaRhapsody provides NOTHING to support the bile he/she spews
at the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party.


Come On, show us something to support your "opinion".
I showed you mine.
You show us yours.

[VanillaRhapsody]

90. Exit polls of the people that "didn't show"?

hahahahahah right...

the wishy washy middle...who NEVER show up for the midterms....and the Teabaggers were fired up!
It was the bad economy and that means a rejection the ruling party....Independents broke for Republicans!

THAT is the truth about what happened.

Since you think Dailykos blog is credible....I give you E.J. Dionne

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/11/what_really_happened_in_the_20.html

and NPR
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=131039717

and CBS
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/midterm-elections-how-the-dems-lost-the-house/



and the NYT
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/weekinreview/07marsh.html

and Pew Research
http://www.pewresearch.org/2010/11/03/a-clear-rejection-of-the-status-quo-no-consensus-about-future-policies/

So much for the "perpetually wrong" and I don't provide evidence meme!!!
do you need more?

[bvar22]

96. NONE of which supports YOUR fantasy that Liberals Stayed Home.

E.J. Dionne , from YOUR link:

What really happened in the 2010 election

[font size=3]" Independent voters, white working-class voters, seniors, and men broke heavily against the Democrats due to the economy". [/font]

THAT totally destroys YOUR claim that Liberals stayed home,
and 100% supports the piece I posted above.


Lets try another one, shall we?
(Do you even bother to read the stuff you link to?)



Again, from YOUR link:

" Catholics, independents and voters age 60 and older also sided with Republicans by margins not seen since 1982.

Independent voters, a key to President Obama’s election two years ago, turned sharply to the G.O.P. Republicans also won more support than usual from reliably Democratic constituencies"

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/weekinreview/07marsh.html?_r=0

Nothing here that supports YOUR claim that Liberals stayed home.
Independent & Centrists didn't show up.
As usual, it was and remains the Liberal Activists that carry the load in election seasons.

What a JOKE that you post cites that counter your false claims.




Thanks for the links.
I will save them for the next time somebody else tries to catapult that worn out LIEe that Liberals Stayed Home in 2010.
How can you guys keep sporting that FANTASY in the face of Documented HISTORY.

Keep up the good work of destroying your own credibility here at DU.
Perhaps this board is a little too much for you.
Maybe you should out the Training Wheels back on until you develop better skills.

Helpful Hint
To avoid more public embarrassment,
you really should READ the text in the pieces you link to for support.

No Charge.


Here is what happened in 2010.
It is NOT that difficult:
*Most of the Liberal/Progressive Democrats were returned to office by the Liberal Voters who showed up.

*The Blue Dog/Centrist/3rd Wayers were sent home by the voters.
(Documented HISTORY)

and HERE is WHY:

[font size=3]
"I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the Fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign."
---President Harry Truman

QED:2010[/font]


[font size=4]Leadership! "The Buck Stops HERE!" NO Excuses![/font]







Care to try again?

[VanillaRhapsody]

98. that was not MY fantasy.....DUH~

that's what I was debunking!!!!!!




You might want to pay attention to the discussion BEFORE you try to "take me down a peg"!!!


MAO some more!

[tavalon]

108. " you progessives"

I know we are a big tent, but really, that seemed like a school yard taunt.

[VanillaRhapsody]

151. that's why its in quotations....

[BrotherIvan]

18. Everyone who spends time on a political board is gonna vote

It's pretty unanimous that everyone on DU hates Republicans. And yet, there is a strange faction of hall monitors who think it's cool to bash liberals who haven't sold out their principals because they can't figure out why we don't think every little thing *He* does is magic. The kneejerk reaction always is, "So will you vote for a Republican?" It's funny how the authoritarian brain can only think dichotomously, a trait often exhibited by Republicans themselves...

What the nannies here don't get is they are the absolute worst advertising for their cause. They cry "haters" and "ODS" for even the slightest hint that *He* is not being loved and admired at all times. They do not realize how They defend third way positions, not because they actually think those things, but because they perceive any criticism of that as a criticism against the President. I have not seen the likes of this kind of fervor since Reagan (funny that) and it is a bit uncomfortable to witness.

But anyone who uses rightwing smears such as "far left" is only outing themselves.

[1000words]

49. Well said.

Nicely done.

[LuvNewcastle]

56. Agreed.

[laundry_queen]

140. +1 nt

[Kermitt Gribble]

147. Spot on! n/t

[JoeyT]

20. That would be a good idea if the concern was actually about GOTV.

In reality, it's just another bullshit meme bandied about to let people congratulate themselves on how sensible they are while giving them another excuse to rail about how awful the left is. (But don't accuse them of not being liberal or progressive!) As such, it wouldn't matter if everyone that considers themselves on the left votes in the next election, they'll still keep it going.

[BrotherIvan]

52. What you said

I stupidly thought the Democratic Party was the party of "the Left." But there are so many on here who are constantly telling me how wrong I am.

[Distant Quasar]

92. By international standards, the Democrats are an odd mishmash of center-right and center-left

With just a sprinkling of more staunchly left-wing voices, here and there.
In a normal political system divided between center-right and center-left parties, it's hard to imagine Max Baucus and Henry Waxman belonging to the same side.

If the Democratic Party as a whole is perceived as "left", it's only in comparison to the sheer insanity of the Republicans, which has virtually no equivalent in other industrialized countries except extreme far-right fringe parties like the National Front.

[Xyzse]

24. I am an Independent that always votes.

Sadly, Democrats don't really make me want to vote.

I vote, because I think the Republican party has gone crazy.
I vote, always for the one who I think would do the least amount of damage.
I vote, for the one I think might actually care to try to do something positive, rather than someone who is actively working against the greater good of all, not just the ones up top.

I don't see myself voting for a Republican any time soon.
I would be willing to vote for an Independent for the local level given enough research.

Last time I voted for a Republican was 2000. I am still an Independent, but I am too scared not to vote and give the Gone Overboard Party more power to take away civil liberties, safety nets, general infrastructure, while funneling those funds to those that don't really need it.

Their priorities are misplaced, and they have used wedge issues that makes people react solely through pathos without thinking through what could actually really help.

Any how, I am atypical as an Independent... I tend to go to Virginia to help out on campaigns rather than MD where I live. VA needs my help more than my area.

[VanillaRhapsody]

32. Me too...I live in MD also...and I go to Virginia

but I don't fear calling myself a Democrat...just like my FDR Democratic Grandparents.

[SMC22307]

78. Where was Obama when good Democrats like Howard Dean and Jim Moran...

were getting pummeled at ACA-related townhalls? Out on the golf course with pharmaceutical industry executives?

Obama, with the biggest fukking bully pulpit in the free world, should have SHUT DOWN Sarah "Death Panel" Palin and her band of merry Teabaggers. But he didn't. That is part of the reason Dems lost 2010 -- Idiot America whipped into a frenzy over Granny being offed by the gub'mint. And the White House did very little to mitigate those fears, however irrational those fears were.

Too bad you didn't learn more from your "FDR Democratic Grandparents."

[VanillaRhapsody]

88. Still in the Senate....

Do you understand what the "Bully Pulpit" is? Because obviously NO you don't.

Bully Pulpit isn't the President getting to "Bully" people around from a "pulpit"

A Bully Pulpit just means you have a position that allows you to speak to many people....nothing more...nothing less. You don't haven any power behind it...


oh and my Grandparents are deceased.....I DID learn from everything them. My parents are Tea Partiers so.....

[Bluenorthwest]

95. Obama was in the White House during the ACA Townhalls, and he left Democratic

officials hanging, facing down insane Tea posses without any assistance and arming them with scant information on that which they were supposed to be explaining. My Congressman's office got shot at.
The Presidency is a bully pulpit and he sure as fuck had it but sure as hell did not use it during those town halls. He was otherwise engaged.

[cui bono]

113. Exactly. And when Grassley flat out lied at public rallies it was left unchecked. n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

148. bullshit...I remember those days.....he couldn't do a thing...

getting involved COULD have made it worse too....hindsight is 20/20....by staying away...he didn't further stir up the White Resentment vote.....He wasn't going to make MORE votes for YOUR Side by showing up...

You lost that election and you cannot pin that on Pres. Obama....period.

[cui bono]

116. You're being quite rude considering you are completely wrong.

So you're saying Obama was working on the ACA while he was a senator? Wow. Just wow.

Not to mention a bully pulpit is quite powerful when used, especially if used to espouse policies and ideas the public is in favor of and while the public is enthused about you as a leader. Obama completely squandered the momentum he had when he got elected by ignoring his supporters and courting the banksters. He chose back room deals with big pharma over going out and rallying up the people.

[SMC22307]

123. President Obama was still in the Senate?

He may not be a dictator, but damn if he isn't a time traveler!

"Speaking to many people" is all that was asked of Obama re: the ACA -- again, use the bully pulpit. SELL the ACA, market it. He allowed Teabaggers to control the message, which was a HUGE fucking mistake. You didn't answer the question as to where Obama was when he left Dean, Moran, and other Democrats hanging out to dry, selling his health care "reform."

I learned from my now-deceased grandparents, too. Bully for us.

[swilton]

117. Thank you

Where was he in the protests against Scott Walker in Wisconsin?

[SMC22307]

124. Comfortable shoes, ba-by.

Or was it walking shoes?

[ReRe]

25. Well said Manny....

... but the subjects you named in your last paragraph left one out...

I'd say 2/3 of the public agree with the Democrats on their love of women.

[MisterP]

30. the people

Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could win it back only
By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?

[vlakitti]

50. Nice B. Brecht Quote

Not sure how it fits into the subject, though....

[MisterP]

126. "Would it not be easier ... To dissolve the people/ And elect another?"

the ThirdWayers have the EXACT same attitude as what's being parodied here (they're indistinguishable from Stalinist occupiers IOW, for all that they trumpet about being the only ones with the party's interests at heart)

[villager]

42. Is this "hair on fire," Manny? "Rainbow unicorn-ing?"

I'm not sure which corporate PR-firm spawned snark phrase du jour we should use!

[iamthebandfanman]

43. Whatever manny,

you totally cost Al the election!

youre just another nader !

lol

(oh, and btw.. ive never missed a vote since ive been of legal age!)

[hfojvt]

48. I notice you only mention 2000 and Gore

What about 2002? What about your state rep? Was he/she able to win without you?

I went to a move on meetup in 2003 or 2004 where a guy, who had been a long-time activist said that we should vote early so we can work on election day to GOTV. So I have been doing that since 2004.

Although I didn't in the last election, because I couldn't be a poll watcher, since I was a candidate.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

51. "We vote every #%^*ing time."

Some of us even follow politics and post on political stuff.

I mean,...we could be snowed in down in the basement doing this...

[DeSwiss]

54. No thank you, I've finally been cured.....

...of my disease: ''Battered-Dem Syndrome.'' I now know that the love and concern that I thought was mine, belonged to others. Rich people mostly. I finally woke up and stopped telling myself lies about our relationship. And about the others in our life. The parties, the golfing trips, the bimbos, the bribes. No, I came to my senses -- finally. No more smacks upside my head. No more lies and disappointments.

- But you hang in there though. It gets better........

Whenever someone tells you that we've got to accept the system we've got now. And that there are no other systems that are better than the one we've got, always look at the person who is telling you this. It's usually someone who benefits from the existing system and would lose a lot if it was changed. It's like them saying: ''We've checked all the other systems and this is the best one of all of them -- the one with me in the castle.''

~Russell Brand

[laundry_queen]

141. Good quote. nt

[Enthusiast]

55. Great post, Manny!

Good Democrats can win elections! Third Way "Democrats", not so much.

[TheKentuckian]

57. They have to keep hammering away at the lie, if not they admit their corporate politics

isn't effective at courting independents or even honestly an effort to draw them rather than plain pursuit of the corporate agenda that requires the left side of the spectrum to swallow said agenda if the house of cards is to remain standing.

Afterall, if only one party had to shovel the shit down our throats sooner or later that party would be as popular as dogshit ice cream with garbage juice sauce and there would be nowhere to hide.

[Jakes Progress]

65. +100 Hammering away at the lie

Many of them know it's a lie. Some are not bright enough to know it's a lie.

And others play number games to bolster the lie.

But liberals vote. I've voted in every election since I was old enough to get a card. My first vote went to Hubert Humphrey.

I suspect (get it, suspect) that many of those crowing about the non-voting liberals just discovered politics when it became sexy and cool. I wonder what they would do without a rock star to vote for.

[NYtoBush-Drop Dead]

58. Independents... if you live in a state where Independents can't vote in primaries...

Like New York, then you're not independent... you're a pussy who can't decide whether you're left or right.

[PeaceNikki]

60. To deny there's a gap between GE's and mid-terms is ignorant.

Last edited Fri Jan 31, 2014, 11:29 AM - Edit history (1)

I've crunched the data in WI. Democrats in Democratic counties are not voting in mid-terms. I don't think the bulk of DU'ers are included in that gap, but it's very very very real. It's how we ended up with Walker and losing Feingold. Here people blame Waukesha County, but it's BS. There were huge gaps in Obama voters that did not turn out in mid-terms - mostly in very heavily leaning left wards and counties. And they are Democrats. And we need to work hard to get them to the polls in EVERY election.

[mstinamotorcity2]

61. Calm down Manny

You know Independents are just pissed off Republicans with no where to go.

[broadcaster75201]

64. I disagree. Nate Silver made it clear that the 2010 problem was left-leaning voters not voting.

29 million 2008 Obama voters sat out 2010. The reason? They were pissed at Obama. Now I've been pisse at bama since sometime in 2008 when I realized he was a Conservative, but I still vote.

I disagree with the premise that our problem is not "liberals" not voting. That is EXACTLY the problem.

[MannyGoldstein]

67. That's not how I read this from Silver:

from http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/07/obamas-tough-words-for-liberals-truth-or-dare/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

Actually, there is not much evidence that it hurt them at all.

According to the exit poll of voting for Congress, 90 percent of self-described liberal voters selected the Democratic candidate for the U.S. House, in contrast to 8 percent who voted for the Republican. This percentage was actually up slightly from two years earlier, when 87 percent of liberal voters backed the Democratic candidate for the House.

In addition, the share of liberal voters as a percentage of the overall electorate was not significantly changed from recent years. It was 20 percent, according to the exit poll; by comparison, it had been between 20 and 22 percent in elections from 2004 through 2008.

Instead, Democrats’ troubles were almost entirely caused by conservatives turning out at higher rates in place of moderates. The share of conservatives of the electorate increased to 42 percent in 2010 from 34 percent in 2008, according to the exit poll. And just 13 percent of these conservatives voted for Democrats, as compared to 23 percent in 2008.

It's true that if Liberals showed up in higher numbers, Democrats would do better. But the situation was more a matter of Liberals showing up in typical numbers, while non-Liberals shifted right.

[Capt. Obvious]

71. Pfft. What does Nate Silver know?

Did you see his 2013 March Madness bracket?

[dreamnightwind]

144. Thanks, well done.

[dreamnightwind]

75. Obama voter does not mean left-leaning

A lot of center-right people thought more of Obama than McCain/Palin and voted for him, then sat out 2010. If you can present numbers or analysis from Nate Silver supporting that it was actual left-leaning people (not just Obama voters) that sat out 2010, let's see it.

[cui bono]

118. True. And his most ardent and vocal supporters are not left-leaning either. n/t

[Arkana]

68. Then you need to help get MORE liberals to vote.

And you need to help get MORE people who don't vote in midterms to vote.

"Giving up on voting" is giving the Tea Party exactly what it wants.

[polichick]

69. To vote or not to vote...

While I've never missed a vote, even if I had to struggle to keep from vomiting - I absolutely understand why more and more people don't want to participate in a con game that is disgustingly called "democracy."

I've quit the party that has sold its soul and may or may not join those who have quit participating in the con game.

To vote or not to vote? We'll see if there's anything to vote FOR.

[ladyVet]

72. And therein lies the problem:

It's not hard to make America ecstatic, they just need to pull their heads out of Wall Street's fundamental orifice and vote for traditional Democratic stuff. Really easy.

They can't or won't do it. Too much money/power in it for them.

I'm so tired of being told to vote for someone, simply because "the other guy is worse". I've done it for more than 30 years -- election years and midterms -- and I've gotten to the point where I'm pretty sure I'm voting Green in 2016. Maybe this year, too.

[1StrongBlackMan]

74. Phew ...

Glad I read the post; rather than, firing off a response, based on the OP title line.

[rhett o rick]

77. Those that blame the left talk out of both sides of their faces. From one side of their faces they

say that the left stays home and twiddles their thumbs, and out of their other side of their faces they call the left extreme. Extremists dont stay home. The people that stay home are the people that are satisfied with the status quo.

I've been working many elections and know lots of lefties. We are the ones manning the phone banks, going door to door and working directly with local politicians. Missing are the conservative Democrats that choose to "stay home" and watch Dancing with the Stars.

I'm sure it isnt news to the NSA but I've protested wars from Viet Nam to Iraq and Afghanistan, many, many times in the freezing, pouring rain. I've protested trade agreements, corporate tax dodgers, and supported "Move Your Money." Who are conspicuous by their absence at these events? The conservative Democrats. It was just us wild-assed, extremist lefties.

Those conservatives that try to disparage the left (risking damaging the Party) are projecting when they claim the left stays home.

And another thing. The left knows that if we ever are going to get progressive people to represent us, we need to work hard at the local and state levels. The left I know will be working hard in 2014. The conservative Democrats will be content at disparaging the left.

Thank you for the post Manny.

[CrispyQ]

82. If I'm not thrilled with the dem candidate, I'm voting green.

The system isn't broken. The system is fixed.

[Progressive dog]

85. I believe you,

but you are wrong about the voters and liberal positions.
The voters elected more Republicans to this Congress than Democrats, and will probably continue to do so. You claim that many of the Democrats aren't liberal and the Republicans certainly aren't.
Massachusetts did elect a t-bagger to the Senate and have had lots of Republican governors, so even one of the most liberal states still can seem not liberal.
I wish that what you said were true, but it obviously isn't.

[Coyotl]

91. Here's why I've given up on JUST voting:

Elections are decided, in the sense of the majority/ruling view of the representative body of elected officials, by that two percent of people in the middle ground. It's a real dog fight for that small sliver of difference in an ocean of people who vote/think the same way all their lives.

Where that difference is made is both geographic and demographic while also skewed by political manipulations like gerrymandering. There are few swing districts just like there are few swing voters. In the Connected Age, we can all participate where it matters. As easily as we can join global events like the Arabian Spring, we can volunteer to work in campaigns from our own desktops. We can donate where it matters the most, where the dog fight for the swing voter in the swing district will impact who controls Congress next year.

Looking down from far above on the voter maps, it is easy to see voting isn't enough. With so few of us in so few places making the difference between red and blue, victory is there to be had by either party. Political campaigns really do swing the nation. Accept that and you know voting isn't enough. Accept that, and you have the foundation for optimism about the next round. Victory is always possible, if you get your voters to the poll.

[tavalon]

99. Thank you Manny, that really, really needed to be said. I'm so tired of that old canard,

that we need to take it to the street. I have permanent calluses and I'm sure I'm not in the minority here.

I vote every fucking time. Now granted, over the years I've come to doubt the veracity of the voting systems but if nothing else, because I believe we are in inverted totalitarianism, I vote to keep the curtain up. When they decide to take the curtain down, America will become a blood bath. Yeah, I want serious changes to our whole corrupt system, but revolution is bloody business and it's you and me who will bleed and revolutions rarely makes things better - they just create a vacuum for something far worse.

Besides, I'm a citizen of America (not a consumer, no matter how many times they try to rename my role) and as a citizen I have a great many privileges and a fair number of responsibilities. Voting is one of them. It's my duty. Sometimes I'm thrilled at what I get to vote for (I live in Washington state) and sometimes I hold my nose, but I vote and I think that damn near anyone who is here, has similar values. I also canvass and I send money to candidates I believe it. Also duties. Sometimes I do them happily, sometimes not, but I am a citizen and I take that seriously. You clearly do too.

[another_liberal]

111. Vote defensively.

Everyone understands why we need to drive defensively, voting defensively is just as important. If you don't at least try to defend yourself by voting, the result can be a whole lot worse than just a fender-bender. It goes without saying that (unless you are a part of the one percent) voting defensively means you will vote for the Democrat every time.

[Eatacig]

129. Here we go again.

Telling Democrats not to vote. You gonna fall for this again?

[XRubicon]

131. What happened with "the imminent backlash of the left"

When does that start... Just asking.

[liberal_at_heart]

136. That is why I am now an independent. I am done being abused. When there is a left leaning

liberal candidate available to vote for, I will vote. When there is not, I won't. And people can trash talk me all they want. I don't give a damn. Education was the last straw for me. I am tired of democratic politicians supporting Race to the Top, Common Core, lack of funding, and privatization of our public school system. I just won't do it anymore. If people want to verbally attack me for that, then so be it. That is what the trash thread and ignore buttons are for.

[questionseverything]

137. look at the way the vote is counted and reported

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7875

from the article....

Results Drastically Changed

The election numbers have radically changed in Monroe County since the May 18th election. At least as reported on the SoS website, and as confirmed by local officials.

It's not all that unusual for the unofficial numbers to move a bit following election day, as absentee and provisional ballots are counted and added in to the totals, and as precinct numbers are double-checked for accuracy in the post-election canvass. It is, however, unusual, for vote totals to get a great deal smaller rather than larger in the days following the election. And that's what seems to have happened in Monroe County --- radically so.

Somehow, more than a thousand votes disappeared entirely, as the election results in the Dem and GOP Senate primaries have almost entirely changed.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

we do not really know if dems lost those elections in 2010 or not...all we know is what the ptb told us happened once the numbers stop moving

[kardonb]

138. voting

Manny , if you don't vote , you can only blame YOURSELF if the outcome doesn't please you . Voting is a privilege , a right , an honor and a DUTY of every citizen .

[awoke_in_2003]

139. Thank you...

I am tired of hearing 2010 was our fault. No, it wasn't. Like always, we held our noses and voted.

[Peacetrain]

142. huh..

why am I not surprised that you do not vote, or you are not going to vote.. and rah rah rah team lets not vote... and yet howl at everyone who supports a canidate.

[MannyGoldstein]

143. Confess. You just read the title, not the message text.

Busted.

[Peacetrain]

146. Nope I read the title, the whole thing

and I read between the lines.. 2010 killed us .. and I do not give a flying pizza.. if someone was liberal, indy, conservative, crazy libertarian.. 2010 killed us.

I am so damn sick and tired of don't blame me, I am a liberal.. or don't blame me I am a progressive.. or don't blame me I am an independent..

Or I held my nose and voted and look what it got me..

I am up to my ears with it.

So if people remind others.. don't sit out the vote.. or get out the vote is the most important thing we can do.. stop whining about it not being you or them

Edit to add.. no one is blaming you good God almighty..

[AAO]

145. Voting is a responsibility to our families and to all Americans.

I will always vote. At least until the time voting is proven to be truly an exorcize (sick) in futility.

[Lunacee_2013]

153. Rec and Kick!

It would be nice when I vote, which I have every two years since I turned 18, to be able to elect an actual LIBERAL candidate. One who stayed true to her/his liberal base, but alas, I live in north Texas. So I just don't see that happening anytime soon. Even if we turn Texas blue, it will not be liberal.