ACLU Comment on President’s NSA Speech

[ProSense]

ACLU Comment on President’s NSA Speech

WASHINGTON – President Obama today announced changes to some aspects of the NSA’s surveillance programs and left others in place. Anthony D. Romero, the executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union, had this reaction:

“The president’s speech outlined several developments which we welcome. Increased transparency for the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, improved checks and balances at the FISA court through the creation of a panel of advocates, and increased privacy protections for non-U.S. citizens abroad – the first such assertion by a U.S. president – are all necessary and welcome reforms.

“However, the president’s decision not to end bulk collection and retention of all Americans’ data remains highly troubling. The president outlined a process to study the issue further and appears open to alternatives. But the president should end – not mend – the government’s collection and retention of all law-abiding Americans’ data. When the government collects and stores every American’s phone call data, it is engaging in a textbook example of an ‘unreasonable search’ that violates the Constitution. The president’s own review panel recommended that bulk data collection be ended, and the president should accept that recommendation in its entirety.”

- more -

https://www.aclu.org/national-security/aclu-comment-presidents-nsa-speech

Senator Leahy's statement on the President’s NSA reforms
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024347529

Udall, Wyden, Heinrich Statement Reacting to President's Speech on NSA, Surveillance Reform
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024347077

[grasswire]

1. lipstick on the pig isn't enough nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

2. How many ACLU hoops must the President jump through? They would end the NSA outright,

if they had their d'ruthers. I think the reforms he announced are a good place to start. Trying to find the right balance between security and privacy can't be an easy task. Afterall, it won't be the ACLU on the hotseat, when the unthinkable happens again.

[FSogol]

3. +1 n/t

[kelliekat44]

8. And then be the first to complain that the government didn't do enough to protect our

natural resources, energy grid, bank accounts, infrastructure, safety, industries, ....and are you ready for it...freedoms.

[PowerToThePeople]

11. This exact quote could have been seen

Last edited Fri Jan 17, 2014, 04:22 PM - Edit history (1)

kelliekat44 (3,169 posts)
8. And then be the first to complain that the government didn't do enough to protect our

natural resources, energy grid, bank accounts, infrastructure, safety, industries, ....and are you ready for it...freedoms.

On FR when we were protesting the Bush Wars.

Strange turn of things.....

[JDPriestly]

39. What does the government do to protect our natural resources, energy grid, bank accounts,

infrastructure, safety, industries? Collect phone data? Remember the chemical spill in W. Va.? How about the explosion of, was it a munitions factory or warehouse, in Texas?

The government does very little to protect us from the real dangers that surround us like untested chemicals sitting in huge silos near a water supply.

Collecting our metadata does not keep us safe. Regulating chemical companies and other companies that produce or store dangerous substances does.

A lot of the money on the NSA's huge web of surveillance programs is mostly wasted. It's just a bunch of nerds who like to play with computers and have found a way to get the taxpayers to pay for their amusement.

Some of the data collecting and spying done by the NSA is useful, but most of it is just obsessive-compulsive nerds in overkill.

And several former employees of the NSA have come clean and blasted the NSA programs for their illegal activities.

We have a huge problem with security in this country but collecting our metadata and listening in to the phone calls of ordinary Americans will not do anything to solve the problems.

[Mojorabbit]

10. Good grief. The ACLU is one of the few organizations out there

looking out for the people's rights. I can't believe you posted that. I really can't.

[hlthe2b]

19. Really... and on a "progressive" website, to boot....

Some here are just unbelievable...

[Tarheel_Dem]

24. I'm a Democrat, not a CATO Institute lovin' Civil Libertarian. Fuck Libertarians!

[hlthe2b]

25. I'm a progressive Democrat-- not an authoritarian --and one who cares about civil liberties

And, your implied "fuck me" is noted, but I am NOT a libertarian. I'd advise you to step back from implying/inferring such.

[Tarheel_Dem]

27. Your "advice" is duly noted.

[Progressive dog]

29. I agree with you

I can't think of one Libertarian who is a Democrat. They tend to vote for the stupider wing of the Republican party.

[Tarheel_Dem]

31. There are none, except those who play one "on the internet". Like Thom Hartmann says:

"Libertarians are just Republicans who want to get laid, and smoke dope". But make no mistake they are Republicans, and a selfish lot to boot. They don't give a shit about social issues that affect the poor, and their "privacy" concerns are pretty much limited to the fact that they don't want anyone to find out they download porn.

[Jamaal510]

62. ...Or are doing illegal drugs. eom

[Tarheel_Dem]

70. Exactly. They are Republicans at heart. n/t

[Broward]

55. Fuck authoritarian Republicans!

[Tarheel_Dem]

58. And "Fuck" libertarian Republicans as well! Fuck Republicans period!

[Tarheel_Dem]

23. I frankly don't give a s**t what "you believe". We also have "a right" not to be blown up.

[Luminous Animal]

33. Can you link to that part of the Constitution.

[Tarheel_Dem]

34. Well hello Luminous(Fire)Animal(Dog)!

[Luminous Animal]

51. ¿Que?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0140068619/ref=redir_mdp_mobile#immersive_view?1390006389821

[Tarheel_Dem]

57. No offense, but I never click on your links. But thanks anyhoo!

[Luminous Animal]

60. No offense taken. I love you Tarheel_Dem.

[bobduca]

54. FEARMONGERING

it's not just for right-wing republicans!

[NuclearDem]

42. Don't be surprised.

This is the same poster after all that called Latin America "a cyst on the anus of the world" during the Snowden debate. They'll go after anyone that even looks at Obama the wrong way, and use the most frustrating and despicable rhetoric to do so.

[Tarheel_Dem]

59. Fuck Comrade Snowden! May he live out his life in Putin's Russia. Couldn't happen to a nicer asshole

[Warren Stupidity]

15. All the hoops required to restore constitutional normalcy. nt.

[treestar]

26. And he listened

If he was such a corporate baddie as they claim he is, he could have simply ignored their concerns.

[Tarheel_Dem]

28. Exactly. There's no pleasing them no matter what he does. It's ODS at it's absolute worst.

If the mission here has changed from supporting Democrats to being an opposition research site for Libertarians/Teabaggers, I sure wish Skinner would make an announcement.

[Cha]

64. Oh yeah, and they're coming out of the damn woodwork..

feeling all fancy free and shit to call the President anything they damn please..

"Obummer"...wah wah wah wah ..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=701009

[Tarheel_Dem]

69. Oh, they've never gone away. They infest this board like a plague.

"Take a look on Democratic Underground

They have the gov't paid trolls out, trying to limit the outrage & rebellion on there.

If that is the reaction of hard core Dems to the news stories on the NSA, I want to stoke up some more of it.

Lots of traffic on DU.

It's the most popular Dem internet site, except for Huffy Po - where everything meaningful gets censored."

http://www.dailypaul.com/288556/clapper-and-feinstein-get-caught-lying-big-time#comment-3103138

Oh, and they advise you not to mention the Pauls by name, or you'll get banned. They really make DU suck!

[Cha]

71. Yeah, they're fucking gross.. got their "correct" talking points down..

"Obummer". they don't need to mention the pauls by name. Plenty of praise on DU from long time posters who salivate over the.. liar..



Tarheel

[Tarheel_Dem]

72. The weak minded idiot in the pink "bonnet" is proof positive they're here.

She couldn't wait to kiss Rand Paul's plagirizing ass:

[Cha]

73. Smooch smooch Stoooopid!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

66. Poor, delicate, Obama, has to jump through civil liberties hoops. Tsk. Tsk.

How dare we call on a public servant to do his job.

[Tarheel_Dem]

68. What's with all the extraneous commas? Education is fundamental.

[pinto]

4. Thanks for the post and cross posts for follow up on the NSA issues. (nt)

[riderinthestorm]

5. This is a great chart. Thanks for posting nt

[ProSense]

6. You're welcome. n/t

[PowerToThePeople]

7. Talk is cheap.

When I know they do not have ANY data on me, my family, and my fellow American citizens collected without a warrant stored on some supercomputer and NEVER will, I will be happy.

[ProSense]

9. Yeah, but

"Talk is cheap."

...the number of people who appear to be pissed that President Obama is going to be credited with reforming the NSA...priceless.

[PowerToThePeople]

12. I will give him props

If he makes the changes that need to happen.

I do not think "moving the data to another server" is solving the problem one bit.

[Union Scribe]

18. You've all given that smiley such a bad rep.

It's sad, really. There's nothing inherently wrong with the poor thing, but it's been so badly abused by not-laughing and generally overwrought people trying their damnedest to seem like they're amused and superior at the same time.

[ProSense]

21. I like

"You've all given that smiley such a bad rep. It's sad, really."

...laughter. If that makes you sad, too bad.

[bobduca]

43. It's not laughter its just derisive scorn, one of your most time-worn tools

[ProSense]

44. No,

"It's not laughter its just derisive scorn, one of your most time-worn tools"

...it's fucking laughter. Want "derisive scorn," read through that: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024347963

I'm like lmao.

[bobduca]

46. I don't believe you.

I suspect it's a laugh track.

[ProSense]

47. I don't care

[bobduca]

48. Cue canned laughter

[ProSense]

50. .

[JDPriestly]

52. His reforms are not sufficient. That is the problem.

[hlthe2b]

13. "The president’s own review panel recommended that bulk data collection be ended

and the president should accept that recommendation in its entirety.”

.
.
.
.
.


I could not agree more... The President needs more than window-dressing here... Do the right thing, Mr. President.

[mindwalker_i]

14. The ACLU just has ODS

[kelliekat44]

16. The President takes the heat for 60 years of NSA spying...

Meanwhile, banks and corporations tap, tape, view, sell, mine everything about you from your latest text message and Internet search the inside of your rectum. But wait, we're still trying to figure out a way to hold the President accountable for that.

[PowerToThePeople]

17. This is a big issue too imo

What they do is wrong imo as well. Long form "User Agreements" that give away all your rights are wrong and should not be allowed. Click through contract law is crap.

These are almost as bad as the NSA spying imo. They also need addressed. NSA is an easier target than thousands of corps. If we can get good privacy laws in place via NSA data collection, it can flow down to these other entities and we can get them in check too.

[Jamaal510]

30. +1

[Blue_Tires]

32. +1

[Tarheel_Dem]

35. You made coffee come out of my nose!!!

[Cali_Democrat]

49. Yep. 60 years of NSA spying and...the black guy is the fall guy

What else is new?

[neverforget]

61. And we have a Democratic President to make the changes to make abuse less likely.

I don't blame Obama for the abuses of his predecessors. However, he can certainly make changes for the better. While today is a start, the Congress is going to have to codify this stuff into law so the next president doesn't undo it as these are all executive actions.

As for the rest, none of those entities can put you in prison but are the result of business transactions.

[Cha]

20. Thanks Prosense.

[ProSense]

22. You're welcome. n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

36. Excerpt from ACLU email this afternoon. In the interest of fairness.

President Obama just finished a landmark speech about domestic spying.

And we’re very happy the president has finally recognized that the American people are tired of our own government spying on us and tired of being lied to about it.

But do you know what we didn’t hear from him today? We didn’t hear that he will bring an end to the NSA’s dragnet surveillance programs.

Today the president proposed a handful of incremental reforms, but unfortunately he missed this opportunity to stop all forms of bulk collection of innocent Americans’ data.

Since the president hasn’t gotten the job done, we have to turn our focus to Congress and make sure they do.

[ProSense]

37. That's reflected in the chart. n/t

[great white snark]

38. K&R. Thank you kindly.

Have a great weekend.

[ProSense]

40. Thanks.

You do the same.

[Jefferson23]

41. I don't know why he does not do more to end this, it is a curious thing to me. n/t

[NuclearDem]

45. Good speech, good first start.

[sheshe2]

53. Kick n Rec!

And thank you ProSense!

[Coyotl]

56. Here is the speech:

http://www.c-span.org/Events/Pres-Obama-Remarks-on-Intelligence-Programs/10737443584-1/

[Cha]

63. NSA Critic Ron Wyden Commends 'Milestone' In Surveillance Reform..

"Vocal National Security Agency critic Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR offered full-throated praise for the changes to NSA surveillance programs announced by President Barack Obama on Friday.

In a joint statement with fellow Senate Intelligence Committee members and privacy advocates Mark Udall (D-CO) and Sen. Martin Heinrich (D-NM), Wyden commended the President for proposing changes to the NSA's phone records collection program in particular. He and Udall had proposed a bill last year to curtail the agency's authority to collect that data.

“After the long push to rein in overbroad surveillance powers, we are very pleased that the President announced his intent to end the bulk collection of Americans’ phone records," the senators said. "Ending this dragnet collection will go a long way toward restoring Americans’ constitutional rights and rebuilding the public’s trust. Make no mistake, this is a major milestone in our longstanding efforts to reform the National Security Agency’s bulk collection program."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/wyden_commends_obama_nsa_chang

Decided to give Wyden his own post on your thread, PS~

[ProSense]

75. Yes, and if you

"“After the long push to rein in overbroad surveillance powers, we are very pleased that the President announced his intent to end the bulk collection of Americans’ phone records," the senators said."


...look at the chart, a combination of the President's proposals and passage of the USA Freedom Act would address most of the issues.

[Egalitarian Thug]

65. As long as it's up here, you need a much bigger trowel if you're going to cover up this pig. n/t

[spin]

67. The question is if these restrictions will be enforced. ...

Years ago I worked for a company that made items for the government. This company had a good number of such contracts. Each had a "charge number" that you used when you worked on that program.

Some contracts were overrunning their budget and some were not. If your program was one of those which was overrunning, it was quite likely that the supervision would instruct you to charge your labor to a different contract that that was doing well. As an employee, you had no choice or you would be shown the door.

This offered my company a significant advantage in competition with much smaller government contractors who may have had only one or two contracts. We could easily underbid them and drive them out of business.

One day the government woke up to this fact and decided to correct it. The solution to this mischarging mess was simply to announce that if caught any supervisor who approved this mischarging could end up in prison and so could the VP who ran the entire show.

It was simply amazing how much things charged at work. The company suddenly decided to take mischarging seriously.

Obama can put all the words he wants on paper to protect our freedom but unless he is willing to ENFORCE these new rules, they will make little or no difference in the long run.

Time will tell if Obama is serious or not. Even if he is, it is quite possible that another future President may decide to not prosecute those who violate the privacy rights of our citizens.

I'm not sure that we will, or even can, protect the rights we were granted in the Bill of Rights in a world with the technology we have today.

I am also not sure that Obama and those we elect to Congress are actually running this nation right now. Perhaps a small cadre of people who work for the ultrasecret alphabet agencies and have access to all the mega-data are hiding behind a curtain and pulling strings that control our politicians. They would know all the personal secrets of everybody we elect and also where all the bodies are buried and could use that knowledge to pull the strings that control our elected representatives.

Now perhaps you will feel that I wear a tinfoil hat, but I will simply point out that J. Edgar Hoover was know as "the most powerful man in Washington" and the Congress and a good number of Presidents were unwilling to take him on as he knew all their secrets.

J. Edgar Hoover

John Edgar Hoover (January 1, 1895 – May 2, 1972) was the first Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) of the United States. Appointed director of the Bureau of Investigation—predecessor to the FBI—in 1924, he was instrumental in founding the FBI in 1935, where he remained director until his death in 1972 at age 77. Hoover is credited with building the FBI into a larger crime-fighting agency, and with instituting a number of modernizations to police technology, such as a centralized fingerprint file and forensic laboratories.

Late in life and after his death Hoover became a controversial figure, as evidence of his secretive actions became known. His critics have accused him of exceeding the jurisdiction of the FBI.[1] He used the FBI to harass political dissenters and activists, to amass secret files on political leaders,[2] and to collect evidence using illegal methods.[3] Hoover consequently amassed a great deal of power and was in a position to intimidate and threaten sitting Presidents.[4]

According to President Harry S. Truman, Hoover transformed the FBI into his private secret police force; Truman stated that "we want no Gestapo or secret police. FBI is tending in that direction. They are dabbling in sex-life scandals and plain blackmail. J. Edgar Hoover would give his right eye to take over, and all congressmen and senators are afraid of him".[5]...emphasis added
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover

Imagine how powerful J. Edgar Hoover would be today if he had access to the mega-data the NSA and other agencies are collecting.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

76. Thoughtful post.

[Shandris]

74. After building that massive data collection facility, we're just going to leave it sitting empty?

You'll have to forgive me if I'm somewhat...skeptical.

I don't trust one word of these 'reforms'. Sadly, my trust was broken the moment everything was confirmed. I'm not sure what it will take to get it back, but just -saying- you're going to do a lot of stuff? That's a non-starter.