General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSheriff rejects popcorn killer’s ‘stand your ground’ defense: ‘Why didn’t he move seats?’
By Travis Gettys
Friday, January 17, 2014 8:51 EST
The sheriff whos investigating the fatal shooting of a moviegoer this week in Florida said the states stand your ground defense doesnt apply in this case, but an attorney said it likely does.
What most people dont understand is, the law is not concerned with what started your argument; the law is not concerned about how petty it is, attorney Stephen Romine told First Coast News. The law is concerned about the acts between two people the person who died and the person who did the shooting.
Retired police captain Curtis Reeves was charged with second-degree murder after he shot 43-year-old Chad Oulson to death Monday afternoon because he refused to stop sending a text message to his 2-year-old daughters day care provider.
Reeves told investigators that he feared for his safety when he was struck in the face with an object that investigators determined was popcorn, but his attorney suggested may have been a more dangerous object.
Pasco County Sheriff Chris Nocco dismissed that claim, saying there was no evidence of another object and besides, the 71-year-old Reeves could have just found another seat.
It was an empty movie theatre, Nocco told the Daily Mail. If he was scared, why didnt he move seats?
The sheriff said all the detectives at the scene Monday agreed that the states controversial self-defense law did not apply in this case.
From our investigation, it seems simply that the agitation of someone using their cell phone to text has caused this, Nocco said. The suspect was sitting there, they had an argument about texting, the victim turned around, threw something, a shot is fired and the next thing you know a man is dead.
But Romine, who is not representing Reeves but has tried many high-profile cases, said the states law focuses on one thing: Did the retired officer believe that he was in danger?
If so, Romine said, he had the right to use deadly force to defend himself even if the weapon was popcorn.
Under the state law, a person has the right to use deadly force if he fears death or great bodily harm, even when retreat is possible.
The attorney said the reason the two men fought doesnt matter under the statute, because all that matters is whether Reeves believed Oulson would hurt him.
Under Florida law, he added, its considered a felony offense to strike a person over 65 years old with something as small as a marshmallow.
Reeves and his wife, Vivian, were seated behind Oulson and his wife, Nicole, during a matinee screening of Lone Survivor at a Wesley Chapel movie theater when the retired cop asked the younger man to stop using his phone.
Investigators said Reeves went to get a manager but came back alone and continued his dispute with Oulson.
We believe the manager didnt have a full conversation with the individual because he was dealing with other customers, Nocco said. But the fact the suspect had the ability to go and see the manager shows he had the ability to move his seat.
After the argument resumed, Oulson threw a bag of popcorn that struck Reeves in the face, and he drew a pistol and fired one shot at the younger man.
Oulsons wife tried to shield her husband, but the bullet passed through her outstretched hand and struck her husband in the chest.
Authorities said Reeves then calmly sat down and placed the gun on his thigh before he was restrained by an off-duty sheriffs deputy.
It was jammed when he put it down on his thigh, Nocco said. I cant tell you if he was trying to shoot again, or what he was doing. We will look at the gun to see what happened In the future, but that isnt relevant to the second-degree murder charge at present.
A judge denied bond for Reeves, who retired from the Tampa police department in 1993.
His attorney said Reeves was heartbroken that a life was lost in the shooting.
Watch this video report posted online by First Coast News:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/17/sheriff-rejects-popcorn-killers-stand-your-ground-defense-why-didnt-he-move-seats/
Full article posted with permission
Aristus
(66,380 posts)Anyone who's the type to be heartbroken at the criminal waste of innocent life is not the type to be packing for a visit to a movie theater.
Callous disregard for human life is part of gun culture.
Good for the sheriff. Fuck that idiot attorney guy...
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)Paladin
(28,262 posts)Dash87
(3,220 posts)You can't, for example, start taunting someone until they snap and attack you, and then pull out your gun and shoot them. You also wouldn't be able to attack someone and then claim that Stand Your Ground applies. That guy who filmed himself killing his neighbor tried that and was arrested.
AlinPA
(15,071 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)So that was bullshit that he threw some popcorn at the murderer? I kinda figured he was shot for failure to follow orders by a former police cpt. Dickhead.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)anything other than popcorn being thrown at this nut.
Pasco County Sheriff Chris Nocco dismissed that claim, saying there was no evidence of another object and besides, the 71-year-old Reeves could have just found another seat.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Well you know, I really hate it when those kernels get stuck in between my teeth! It would have been a hail mary shot, but still possible!
I think I should take my bazooka the next time I go to the movies...just in case someone brings milk duds and bad intentions.
Rex
(65,616 posts)just keep it perched on my shoulder the entire movie...so everyone can see I mean business at all times!
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)but probably not in a good way.
You know you can legally buy a used anti tank missile launch tube, carry that around and see the reaction you get, it's perfectly legal, but I think you'll get a very bad reaction from the cops.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)how we got to a place where we feel it our right to tell someone else to stop doing something and when/if they don't; rather than just walking away, we feel justified in imposing out demand ... even to the point of killing someone?
I guess we really do need to consider the decision point query: "Is this a hill I'm willing to die on?"
arcane1
(38,613 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)"I get to do whatever I want to do and you get to do whatever I want you to do ... or I will shoot you!"
dickthegrouch
(3,174 posts)The Dutch invented it.
Kaleva
(36,307 posts)"Under Florida law, he added, its considered a felony offense to strike a person over 65 years old with something as small as a marshmallow."
exboyfil
(17,863 posts)Would it be enough to change SYG? Given his victim was a real jerk, he might have the possibility of being found not guilty.
I think he should spend the rest of his life in jail so I am not excusing his actions, merely speculating on how this may play out.
If the victim was someone like Trayvon Martin (African American teenager) I would put the odds at least at 50%/50%. In this case probably 25%/75%.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Zimmerman might not have walked.
TheOther95Percent
(1,035 posts)NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)You don't just get to carry a gun and wait for someone to piss you off. This isn't Tombstone.
louis-t
(23,295 posts)his mission in life is now to edumicate the younger generation about politeness. Or kill them cuz they won't listen to him. Not sure which.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Xyzse
(8,217 posts)I feel like, I am glad the guy's lawyer is making that defense on stand your ground.
It just shows how crazy that law really is.
Then again, I don't know, it also may just once more show how far we have fallen as a society.
OregonBlue
(7,754 posts)ryan_cats
(2,061 posts)If you are carrying a gun, how can you say you feared for your life? I know that packing heat lets the packer think they can't be beat and now he is saying he feared for his life, from popcorn?
Second degree murder sounds right, it wasn't premeditated but he sure as hell started it so he can't claim manslaughter. Since this is Florida, I am interested to see what happens if it goes to a jury trial. It doesn't say but hopefully the prosecutor will go before a grand jury since that was supposed to be one of the problems with the Zimmerman trial.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)I am not convinced that this maniac can do that. From my perspective this entire incident only makes sense if you assume that this ex-cop deliberately provoked a confrontation with the intent of killing someone.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)Reasonable fear = "ability, opportunity, jeopardy".
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,868 posts)They play out situations in their heads over and over. Cowboy situations, hero situations, break in situations, they're itching to shoot someone. The gun gives them a feeling of confidence that they wouldn't have otherwise. Gun nuts tend to be insecure losers until you put a gun in their hand.
Now that we know you can get off (ala zimmerman) we'll be seeing a lot more of this.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)They fantasize and dream of such situations, going over it in their minds, over and over again, and probably rubbing their crotch while doing so.