My Wife Believes American Workers Being Positioned To Accept Lower Living Standard.

[TheMastersNemesis]

My wife believes that workers are being put in a position to accept a much lower life style for most workers. That politicians think we live too high on the hog now and must be brought down to a level closer to the rest of the globe. Her feeling is that we are being told that we are too expensive and that we must follow the example of people who live on less. That is why conservatives in particular want to eliminate the safety net. It is one reason why there is the meme about getting rid of the minimum wage to create more jobs and stopping unemployment. The Idea is that desperate workers will accept any working conditions and any pay.

Her sense is that the rhetoric about "slackers and takers need to get a job" and "poor people are dragging the nation down" is so prominent with pundits and the media. It is interesting how the pundits really go out of their way to praise hard working immigrants implying that American workers are lazy and stupid. Of course most pundits are practically millionaires already. So in her view there is a method to this economic madness.

You kind of wonder what is going on with all these cuts and the "we cannot afford it" meme. There seems to be a constant drone from certain members of Congress pushing this idea. We are broke and must tighten our belts until it hurts.

[libdem4life]

1. As the unions go, so goes the worker. United We Thrive, Divided We Beg...have seen this somewhere

here something along this line and it is so true.

[theHandpuppet]

16. Yep. That's what the "right to work" meme was all about

Code phrase for "non-union". Unfortunately, the plan seems to have worked all too well.

[libdem4life]

75. Right to work...for peanuts, if we're lucky.

[yeoman6987]

29. Lower?

Most Americans go to work, come home spend some time with family, eat, watch a bit of TV and then go to bed to get up and do it all over again. Not many frills. Perhaps a decent TV and two working vehicles are about what they have. Maybe a vacation to the shore every year for a week. I can't even imagine how we can go any lower in living then we have now. And these previous examples are if you are lucky to even have these. Some don't even have these so called "luxuries".

[Eleanors38]

45. Yes, lower: No paid vacation, no contract, and flex scheduling.

[libdem4life]

79. It used to take one income to raise a family and keep up a home. Now two, and given the cost of

higher education ... and even that's certainly no guarantee for a decent job, soon it will take three incomes.

Back to the beginning of the Industrial Revolution when kids had to work...that works for the 1%. And build a room for Granny because they are trying to get at the Social Security, measly as it already is. Then that reduces the need for housing, so building starts go down...

[CrispyQ]

92. Leisure time is for the 1%. Proles gotta work 24x7.

They genuinely don't have an issues with that. They think they are special, better than. Not all, but as a class, yes.

[elzenmahn]

140. Remember Bushiebaby's response to a woman

...who was working three jobs to make ends meet? He thought that was JUST GREAT!

[CrispyQ]

145. I remember.

And if you are working 3-4 jobs & still not making it, it's cuz you're lazy & not working hard enough. It certainly isn't cuz the game is rigged.

Evil fuckers.

[Pholus]

119. And there are the ones who claim the vehicles and TV are luxuries too...

Yeah, Cheap Labor Conservatism is back and it's bad.

[arikara]

133. No, they want us to have TV's

thats what they use to catapult the propaganda.

[Pholus]

143. Yet TV's are mentioned as a sign that we are not truly impoverished...

I'm not saying the devices aren't dual use and they *are* affordable....

[gtar100]

127. Yes, unions are our only hope. One blip in history in which a middle class boomed

and it was all because America embraced unions and the principles for which they stood. And as the unions get dismantled, our standard of living rots away. Coincidence? Not in the least!

[pampango]

144. Great point. With Taft-Hartley and it 'right-to-work' unions are undercut at every turn. Countries

with strong unions have higher wages and stronger middle classes.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

2. It's been happening since Reagan.

And people buy into it. You hear "Americans are too lazy" all the time when it comes to making excuses for hiring undocumented workers for less than minimum wage. It's a race to the bottom.

[Beartracks]

101. Why does the GOP hate Americans? n/t

[RKP5637]

111. It is the party of sociopaths and sadists. The republican party loves to see

people suffer, and even more so if they can dupe them into their beliefs as they suffer as a consequence there of.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

141. We get in the way.

30k a year is too much, they need all the money.

[Beartracks]

142. Reminds me of a movie called "Bounty Killer."

The post-apocalyptic world is so because mega-corporations bought the governments and then had an all-out war with eachother. The remaining white-collar criminals took all the wealth and plan to use it to to basically be kings over the lowly hordes.... except that the hordes want retribution, and celebrity-like bounty hunters are on the case.

I just watched it on Netflix. Good times.

==============

[bluestate10]

114. Reagan hyper-accelerated the decline. But it started under Nixon with the start of the decline

of the American Steel industry, while Nixon did nothing but protect rich friend. Ford was largely incompetent. Carter tried to reverse the trend, but was rejected by an America that was willing to buy in to a fantasy pushed by Reagan.

If events continue to go as they have been, the decline will continue, regardless of what politicians do. Politicians talk a good game when running for office, but the reality is that once in office they either don't know how to effect real income equity, or become mesmerized by big business and industry. Change will come ONLY after business people that are pro worker and pro fair pay collectively seize control of the nations business and industry environment.

[socialist_n_TN]

115. WHO are these business people who are pro worker......

and pro fair pay? Methinks they don't exist. Or if they do exist they're in too small of numbers to make a dent on the system itself

This time we won't stop the decline until we get rid of the system. It's too late for any other remedies.

[trublu992]

3. I agree with her. I remember

watching Charlie Rose about 3 years ago and some financial journalist I can't recall her name has just returned from China and was explaining to Charlie how this new global economy was going to work. Her assessment was that Americans were going to have to get used to making less money. I got a chill because I thought Man if all the corporate powers that be are mobilized how the hell are we going to right that wrong!

[defacto7]

4. It's a pretty good hypothesis.

I could also say the year is 1898. Not much difference between then and now. But I would have to disagree that politicians now are altruistic enough to have a motive for their choices outside of historic self interests. I'm cynical enough, a least tonight, to think that nothing has ever changed therefore you can find the reasons for political choices in the repetition of history. "We are broke and must tighten our belts until..........", fill in the blank.

[Lint Head]

5. This is exactly the plan. It is a fact. I have worked around and been around very powerful people

who discuss this openly. They say things like, "There is just one pie and not everyone can have a big piece." Greed and continuing profit is the driving force. Each quarter corporate managers have a percentage of increased profit or their jobs are on the line. I actually got into trouble with a corporate president by saying something in a meeting he did not like. We had a backlog situation and it had been decreasing to 10% product on hand. 15% was the target but he wanted more and said we should strive for more. Then it got down to 5%. We were then ten percent under the goal and the normal operating required average. He said we need it at zero. Folks were talking outside of the meeting that it was ridiculous what he was asking for. No one else had the guts to speak up so I said in the next meeting, "When we get down to zero what then? What is the goal? Minus 15?" Which of course is impossible. He took me aside and said that I needed to get in line that it made him look bad. I said nothing. I was not fired and the next quarter I got a raise. I was told that speaking up to his bullying gained me some respect.

Why can't corporate assholes be satisfied with a profit. Period. Instead of wanting it increased every quarter? After a while the majority of the wealth is owned by 1%. Wait. That's already a fact.

[Art_from_Ark]

10. The problem with a lot of companies

is that they are slaves to Wall Street. Wall Street constantly demands ever-increasing profits, and if that does not happen, a company's stock can get punished.

[freshwest]

11. The global corporate fat cats aren't competing with their workers anymore, but each other. Sky's the

limit and they are afraid of being like the underlings. They see it a threat to their own survival.

Alruism and fair play is a good long-term strategy in cooperative societies during timse of plenty and decreases in times of scarcity.


The mentality is backed by current and historical scientific data on resource depletion and population growth. Humans and their quality of life are like any other flora or fauna, increased by plentiful natural resources and decreased with less.

Population collapse by natural or man-made means is a fact of life on Earth. They don't want to be in that number. They're not stupid or short sighted in terms of their survival.

JMHO.

[Beartracks]

102. "Why can't [they] be satisfied with [just] a profit?" GOod question.

I always wondered that, too. Why must the profit keep increasing? I mean, even sharks just have to swim to stay alive; they don't have to keep swimming faster every day.

=======================

[Lint Head]

105. Yeah. The profit is what keeps the business alive. I realize it has to be a profit that keeps up

with inflation. But so does everyone else. Even the everyday Joe must have an increase in pay to keep up.
Bread used to cost 5 cents a loaf. Now it's 2 to 5 dollars a loaf on the average. It's all relative.

[Beartracks]

106. Sadly, the average Joe can't just raise his own price.

There's no one to pass his costs along to.

======================

[lob1]

6. Remember Romney's "47%" speech?

He talked about a slave labor manufacturer in China, which was surrounded by armed gun towers "to keep people out". What turned my blood cold was that Romney thought this was all a good idea and a great business model. That is their plan for us.

edit for spelling

[JHB]

22. What turned my blood is that no one in his audience (all "savvy investors")...

...questioned him about it. Not one wondered "...and you just believed what the salesman told you?"

It's a variant of "it's difficult for a man to believe something his paycheck requires not believing", bullshit starts tasting like chocolate when recognizing the bullshit would mean losing a few points on your ROI.

[deutsey]

43. The Yes Men slavery proposal prank confirms this

http://theyesmen.org/hijinks/wharton

Philadelphia - At a Wharton Business School conference on business in Africa, World Trade Organization representative Hanniford Schmidt announced the creation of a WTO initiative for "full private stewardry of labor" for the parts of Africa that have been hardest hit by the 500 years of Africa's free trade with the West.

SNIP

"Full, untrammelled stewardry is the best available solution to African poverty, and the inevitable result of free-market theory," Schmidt told more than 150 attendees. Schmidt acknowledged that the stewardry program was similar in many ways to slavery, but explained that just as "compassionate conservatism" has polished the rough edges on labor relations in industrialized countries, full stewardry, or "compassionate slavery," could be a similar boon to developing ones.

SNIP

One conference attendee asked what incentive employers had to remain as stewards once their employees are too old to work or reproduce. Schmidt responded that a large new biotech market would answer that worry. He then reminded the audience that this was the only possible solution under free-market theory.

There were no other questions from the audience that took issue with Schmidt's proposal.

MORE...

[laundry_queen]

7. She's right

I've had this discussion with my class in business school and with family. Especially in business school, when we discuss the economics of free trade and how it's supposed to create more equality in the world - always at the expense of what is currently known as the 'western world' or 'wealthy countries'. We've discussed how the 'western' countries are likely on their way down because of this, and how workers are going to earn less, permanently, because of free trade.

I think a lot of these rich business owners (and probably politicians too) see people in the 3rd world willing to work 14 hour days for $2/day and think Americans (Canadians, Europeans) are spoiled and deserve less. They think they are doing the world a service by helping the 3rd world worker earn $4/day and 'raise their standard of living' and they do think Americans need to be knocked down a notch or 2 - what with all their demands for raises, benefits and decent working conditions. It's a means to an end for them and the American worker is what stands in their way of more money/profits/riches.

Some of them actually do understand that hurting the American worker means less consumerism, which means lower profits for some companies...they are looking at a bigger picture than that. China and India have large enough populations that even a small rise in standard of living means billions for these companies. They don't give a shit about the Western world anymore because that's not where the population - and therefore profits - are anymore.

It's not going to get any better, I am afraid. MHO of course.

[RobertEarl]

14. That is a good synopsis

They do see the populations of India and China as a huge untapped market that by volume sales of 10 cent items will make corps rich.

Hey, we've had a good run. And if we don't lower our costs of living we will squeeze ourselves into this hole our 'New World Order' has ordered up. We are headed that way. How we do it, by squeeze or by gently flowing is up to us individually.

Use of Solar is the best power way. Reducing housing sizes and more economical use of our time left on this little blue ball might ensure our comforts are within reason. The change is coming. The young can see it. Us old farts not so much.

[JDPriestly]

17. We need to stop the trade deals while we can. That is the only hope for us to live decently.

If we start descending into a lower cost of living, we will end up with lower health standards, more infant mortality, shorter lifespans and more crime and perhaps worse.

Americans do not understand that loss of our standard of living will mean bad water, worse air, a really deep decline in not just our access to consumer goods but to the very basic resources we need to survive as a nation.

This cavalier acceptance of a decline in our living standard is unacceptable. I don't mind having fewer consumer goods, but there will not be an across-the-board reduction in the availability and affordability of consumer goods to individuals. Some of us will continue to have what the want while most of us will be unable to heat our homes and pay for clean water.

Americans do not understand that we have to rise together or sink together. We need to turn to a new era of national cooperation to maintain a decent standard of living. The cuts to food stamps are an ominous sign of the direction in which America is going. The trend now is to cut the lifeline to those who are most likely to fall into disease and a terrible living standard.

I'm glad your wife is thinking about the future in this way. We can stop this trend but it will take some cooperation on the part of what is left of the middle class and the poor in America.

[RobertEarl]

20. I agree

We need to get our shit together.

We are at the top of this hill economically and any move is down. We have to have wealth redistribution and a focus on keeping the basics of sustainable lifestyles, but the superfluous we can kiss goodbye.

We have to draw inward. Bring troops home, produce our own energy. Those would be real security moves. Reduce our population. Decide that grow or die is not our future.

Clean air and water is affordable and via renewable energy from human work is economical and sustainable. Air flights, as an example, are not sustainable. Sailboats are. As is walking. We've screwed around long enough. Time we got smart.

[JDPriestly]

24. Most Americans do not understand what it is to use an outhouse any more.

They take for granted municipal water agencies that check the water purity on a rigid schedule even in big cities.

They do not understand what it is to use a toilet that is really just a hole in the floor. Not easy. Especially for women. But at least 30 years ago, it was commonplace in countries in some parts of Europe believe it or not. It is still most likely common in the third world in places.

Americans do not understand what it is to drive a very primitive vehicle on unpaved, dirt roads with ruts in them. That can break an axle really fast. They do not understand what it is like to drive a car on a road shared with horse-drawn wagons. They do not know what it is like to have to walk miles at a time for supplies or necessities because you cannot afford a horse and wagon much less a car.

We have forgotten that our ancestors built log cabins in the middle of a hostile wilderness. We do not understand how quickly a sophisticated, wealthy nation can be reduced to economic chaos, then to strife and finally to rubble. We think these things happen way over there. But we are as vulnerable to economic deterioration as any nation.

Our reality could become very difficult and we could move backwards in terms of our living standard very quickly if we do not face the truth about what is going on in our society.

America is an aging nation. We have to figure out what national goals are really important for us and work to obtain and maintain them. Certainly, a decent, if not wealthy, standard of living for EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN is a top priority. Signing trade deals that will bring wealth to the top 1% and leave the rest of Americans behind is not the way to grow older gracefully. It would be a terrible mistake.

The decrease in the food stamp allocations are a bad sign about the direction in which we are headed. We are putting frills before necessities. We are separating ourselves according to our wealth or poverty to an even greater extent that in the past. This is unacceptable. It will harm all of us if we continue in this direction.

[avebury]

30. And good luck to anyone who tries

to build an off the grid house in the middle of any municipality. They will not allow that to happen.

It is not necessarily a bad thing for society to start to consume less in an overall sense because Americans do tend to be a wasteful society. However, it should be a universal basic human right for people to be able to earn a living wage. If you work full time, you should be able to afford the necessities of life: food, clothing, shelter, healthcare, etc. It does society no good to continue to cut back on wages in order to put more profits in the banks of the 1%ers if the masses are left in abject poverty. Yes people in a lot of other countries earn far less then Americans, however, their cost of living is also generally correspondingly lower the the cost of living here in the US.

The greed of the 1%ers has made them extremely short sighted in the long run. You can only push the masses down the road to abject poverty for so long before, at some point down the road, severe blow back will occur. Just what on earth do they think will happen when the masses become desperate?

[JDPriestly]

72. This is very important and I am glad you wrote it:

" Yes people in a lot of other countries earn far less then Americans, however, their cost of living is also generally correspondingly lower the the cost of living here in the US. "

[rhett o rick]

100. This is a great thread. Globalization means world wide leveling of living standards for the lower

classes. But just because China and India have large populations doesnt mean they will be capable of sustaining the current movement in capitalism. We are in the end-game of this round of capitalism, as I see it unless we discover untapped cheap resources that can be exploited to keep the pyramid alive.

When the living standard levels, it may go up slightly for but it must go down for the west. NAFTA is a great example of how standard of living leveling works. The lower standards will stay the same and the higher will go lower. Those millions in China and India can not purchase products if they arent making decent wages. And the corporations wont pay decent wages. We are in a capitalism death spiral. It's a pyramid game and it's coming to the end. The only way to prevent the implosion is to redistribute wealth downward. That will reset the death spiral and buy some time.

[CrispyQ]

98. "They do not know what it is like to have to walk miles at a time for supplies"

I'm reminded of the recent story about the water wheel, for women in developing countries.

http://www.gizmag.com/wello-waterwheel-water-transport/30325/

Health benefits aside, the WaterWheel stands to increase productivity in rural areas by significantly reducing the time spent transporting water. According to Wello, women in these regions spend an average of 25 percent of their day collecting water for their families. With an potential to transport three to five times the amount of water that can be carried using traditional methods, the WaterWheel has the potential to free up time for more constructive activities such as education and food preparation.

25% of their day!

I know that's an extreme example compared to the examples you were citing, but you are so right that Americans have no idea how easy we have it & how quickly that can change. Add global climate change & diminishing resources & it's lookin' pretty grim. Personally, I think the human species collectively knows it's FUBARed & has collectively decided to party like it's 1999.

On that happy note, I'm going to nibble on a cannabis brownie & kick my weekend off!

Always enjoy your posts, JD.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

103. scarily insightful.

1% want the weak to die...austerity legislation is the 21st century equivalent of putting elders and unwanted children out on an ice floe.

[CrispyQ]

95. Food riots. Is that what it's gonna take to wake people up from their iWhatever bliss?

Gadget rich, equity poor.

I read that somewhere. I thought is was very apt. A lot of Americans think they are better off than they actually are because they have the latest gadgets, nice cars & furniture. But then there was that somewhat recent survey (18 mos?) that said a majority of Americans couldn't come up with $2000 cash without selling something or getting a loan.

[socialist_n_TN]

118. Or we can just expropriate the wealth that's there........

from the ones who've stolen it from our labor and spread it around to the rest of us. If we do that along with lowering our costs of living, we might have an even longer run.

[sendero]

33. This....

... aligns exactly with my thinking. Once business realized that it does not have to rely on the American consumer, all bets are off.

Now, there are some pitfalls in this plan IMHO. Some countries are pretty adept at keeping their markets to themselves, i.e. China needs its own domestic consumers because its ability to export to America is waning for obvious reasons. So, for this scenario to work out as planned, there can't be a lot of protectionism type actions on the part of the Chinese and Indian govts.

We'll just have to wait and see.

[Eleanors38]

47. That sums it up. The eco courses I took in the late 60s? Dead letters.

[Egalitarian Thug]

91. It's good to occasionally read such frank, clear headed pieces/replies. Thank you.

You're also right that it won't get any better. It could, but not nearly enough people both understand what's being done and are willing to do what it wold take to change it.

[laundry_queen]

135. I agree. Lots of ignorance and apathy. And denial. nt

[okaawhatever]

96. What we forget about countries like China and India is that there is a finite amount of time where

workers will accept those working conditions. I read something recently, posted here I think, that was talking about how Bangladesh was the last country where garments could still be made cheaply enough to pay for the transportation and other costs associated with offshoring the jobs. Workers in 'China have already started to unionize. Foxcomm, one of the largest manufacturing companies, has already had to make changes. How about the manufacturing plant that held their American boss hostage to get their back pay? Same with India. Making many things in China is no longer cost effective. That is why the global corps started manufacturing in other countries, at least until those countries raised their standards as well.

[laundry_queen]

134. Yep, the law of diminishing returns

applies here in economics - as poor countries grow quickly, the growth slows as the standard of living approaches that of the wealthiest countries because companies seek out cheaper labor. However, it will take a long time for the entire world to equalize and it will still, imo, be too late for North America to maintain its current standard of living. Plus, Chinese labor isn't too expensive if your target market is China...no transportation costs, and a billion consumers. Asia is the new consumerist society.

[JI7]

8. it's already happened for many

[awoke_in_2003]

9. Well...

It has been going on for 30 years.

[merrily]

12. Yes, that has been going on for a while.

When the economic crisis hit, we began hearing the term "the new normal," usually from the 1%.

That's what it meant. Less for workers, even more for the investor class.

And so it has manifested.

[SoapBox]

13. I absolutely agree!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

15. Classic Reagan Era crap. Claim the boss would LOVE to give you a raise but can't afford it.

[riversedge]

18. well, wasn't it Boeing who just accepted

lower benefits to keep the jobs in Wash. state? I believe your wife is correct. The evidence is all around us. Folks are working for less just for the sake of a job.

[DeSwiss]

19. Being?

- Ha. Good one.

K&R

[Douglas Carpenter]

21. it is almost he logical conclusion of, "How are we going to compete with China?'

[BarackTheVote]

23. I agree with your wife

I say the only metre by which a nation should be judged is by the standard of living it provides to its citizens. Everything else revolves around that. The American government is only too happy to sell its own citizens out to multinational corporations; that is the height of unpatriotic. The fat cats living on their high horse gorging themselves while we vie for scraps, tear each other to pieces while bowing and scraping to our "betters"--it's pathetic. If the likes of Romney and his cohort were true patriots, they would be demanding for a higher tax on top "earners" for the good of the majority. Fuck 'em.

"Socialism" is polling higher than "capitalism." Watch your backs. When the poor have nothing left to eat, they will eat the rich.

[emsimon33]

25. Duh!

[jtuck004]

26. The politicians don't think. They just do as they are told by their betters.

And their "betters", our Masters, want us to support the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed. They scheme 24x7, (they call what they do "work&quot , devising ways by which we are put into debt, and upon that debt we pay an ever growing tax, partly interest, and partly what they tell us they deserve, which is also growing, as if they get more deserving every day. The Masters collect that tax with our help. Some of us help more than others. The Masters don't really care, the Masters don't really care, what we argue about, whether we kill each other, who we marry, where we ride on the bus, whether the police beat us or we beat the police.

All they care about is their tax. And they mean to have it.

We call ourselves "free" to live this life because we can't see the chains, but they bind us tighter than any metal. (Some say they have no debt, and are thus free, but we are all dependent on one another, so they aren't, not really). We have the key, and we could release ourselves from them anytime we choose by no longer supporting their lifestyle. We would have to walk away from the Master's house, and the bed he gives us (which he took from us in the first place) and the food he lets us keep, and walk into a great unknown, where we would have to learn to rely on one another, learn to do for ourselves what has been done for us for too long.

The unknown part scares us, of course. I wonder how much of that is our understanding that we would have to rely on one another?

So we continue to trust the Master, who is more devious, venal, and evil and dangerous to us than any bigot, pedophile, homophobe, duck-call carver, murderer, misogynist, smoker or devil we have ever known. We talk amongst ourselves of a revolution by people who don't know anything about revolutions. And we dream of a day when we are free.

We is a funny lot.

I read the other day a quote. "“But one of the worst results of being a slave and being forced to do things is that when there is no one to force you any more you find you have almost lost the power of forcing yourself.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Horse and His Boy "

We aren't forced, though. We follow willingly. What would happen if we took the reins away and held them ourselves? Would we choose a direction, take off and run any old way, or just stand there?

I think your wife is perceptive, and perhaps "they" need to be challenged a bit more on just exactly who these slackers are. Because all I see are people who would love to work, if there were jobs, with the small qualification that they would like to be treated like human beings.

We aren't broke, btw. We are just focusing on the wrong deficit. The one we ought to be taking on is the trade deficit. We could adjust the balance with the people who our jobs were sold to anytime we want, if we worked together. Our prices would go up, our houses would be smaller, we would have less, the retirees would scream, and people like Mi$$ RobMe would scream louder than anyone. (The contract for healthcare.gov would go in the trash, btw, and Accenture would be out on their ass with all their outsourced jobs. Sorry if anyone works there, but you should choose better employers. The upside - if you are not here on an H1-B visa, perhaps you could get a job with a company that cares about the people who live here. After all, you have experience).

Our jobs would come back, and we could rebuild, maybe this time along the model of how the Industrial Unions suggested we start, before they were killed off. It would take $30 or $40 trillion to accomplish it, but we make our own money here, so that isn't as great a problem as one would imagine. For most of us it really wouldn't mean a lot (compared to the horror that lies ahead if we don't), though it would lower the value of the money for those that have a lot of it. But as long as we are worrying about their concerns, we can't lose those chains.

And thank your wife for the heads-up.

[timothywcrane]

27. Cut the Min Wage And The Sky's The Limit

For Higher CEO packages that is...

I do not deny that business owners should take their share of the pie, but if the only thing that is left is the tin, we are reduced to dumpster divers.

[TBF]

36. Sadly that is pretty much the state of things -

welcome to DU.

[JustAnotherGen]

28. I'm in agreement with her

Now my husband is still a Resident Alien from Italy.

He has a real problem with one of his businesses - HVAC. He has higher rates because as a "legal" alien the quickest way to get "the boot" married to an American or not - is to break the law. What law is broken if hires day laborers at $5 an hour as some of his competitors do? Yeah - he feels bad but they've only been breaking even for five years - so he's getting out of it.

His metal works/historical restoration and preservation and custom design? That he can compete in and it will continue to grow. He gets the best workers because:
He shuts down WITH pay for two weeks at Christmas and over the 4th of July.
His employees get four weeks vacay in addition to that.
Your sick? Stay home. He needs you healthy to go hang from the ceiling of a church in Belgium.
You need to see a Doctor for that cough? Hearing checked? Vision checked? No problem! Your employer that employs 37 people has a Cadillac insurance plan for that!
You came through the Camden or Philadelphia school district as an apprentice to him? Yeah. Good for you girl! (he has three women that have gone through his program). You are 18 years old and making . . . $18 an hour. So much for YOUR kids hiding in a bathtub in Camden to avoid gun shots.
You want to take art classes? Advanced welding? Get an Associates? Learn a language. Talk to the owner.

^Employers who see their employees as human beings who advance the employers wealth invest in them, treat them with respect, treat them with kindess, and give them the tools to grow their business CAN SUCCEED in America^

He even has folks going for their UNESCO certification - which he needs because . . . In ten years we are "out". He's already starting to focus back on his sculpting (juried artist abroad). Idea? A co-op of owner/workers that we would still have a piece of but as we say . . . How much do we need?

I'm sharing this because there are only two "non Americans" other than him in his metal business. One is from Senagal and one is from Denmark. The other 35 - hard working American workers who come in just as the thr NON Americans do and give it all every single day.

You will find no greater champion of the American worker than the guy off the plane from Italy that is greatful that he doesn't have to shut down every five minutes for a Saint Day. And as a outsider looking in - he'd tell you - if your employees feel the need to unionize its because you are a selfish, greedy piece of shit. Treat a man or woman with respect, pay them a "saving and vacationing wage", make sure they are healthy and you will guarantee wealth for yourself.

There's something really screwed up when that isn't the American Standard. We've got to change. We've got to start moving towards the co-op model. And it has to be small business entrepreneurs who make that change.


Small Note - the Saving and Vacationing Wage is something he made up. He's used it to steal people from competitors. This is a man who is the "holiday" Western European Culture. You have to pay people enough to go to the shore for a few weeks in the summer. It refreshes them.

[avebury]

31. A lot of countries that don't insist on pouring

a huge chunk of their national budget on military expenditures tend to have a much higher standard of living because they put their people first. When you don't insist on perpetually feeding the MIC you can afford to have a much greater system of education, health care, etc. Society will always be better off when you set people up to go down the road of success as opposed to sending them down the road of failure.

[The2ndWheel]

69. The US taxpayer is paying for the developed world's military

because the US government won the 20th century and set up the current international system of commerce. The only reason any country listens to something like the UN is because the US might bomb that country otherwise.

If the US wasn't spending so much on the military, then other countries would have to start spending more on their own military protection, and we know what happens when you have a large standing armies just standing around. They get itchy.

[avebury]

90. Kind of like our army?

It seems like there are some in power who are always looking to send our army some place. How else will the MIC keep raking in the big bucks?

[bluestate10]

116. You completely missed the posters point. Europe and Asia was constantly in major wars

when countries in those regions had large standing armies. The USA got drawn into two of those wars. I am of the mind that war is losing it's attraction as a problem resolver in the age of instant information and video. Allies in WWI and WWII were able to kill innocent populations without consequence, if a village has an incidental bomb hit it today that information instantly goes around the world and cause politicians uncomfortable moments. Politicians will be held accountable more and more as information technology continues to improve, more will get dumped in jail for war crimes type conduct - that change will cause war to be among politician's last choices.

[avebury]

122. The problem with that argument

is that the Bush Jr Administration was never held responsible for getting us into the 2nd Gulf War. The US has committed some of the same crimes that we charged other countries post WWII (for example Nuremberg Trials). I never thought, growing up, that this country would become a nation that condones torture. One might say that we have become a nation of do as we say not as we do.

More people around the world view the US as the biggest threat to peace then any other group/nation. Like it or not we have become the big bully on the block.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/02/greatest-threat-world-peace-country_n_4531824.html

I don't think that you can view the US as the moral arbiter of the world. We have become that which we have feared in the past. And look at what is going on within this country. There is more and more effort to take away our civil and constitutional rights. Again, our government (i.e. actions pushed by the Republican/Tea Party agenda) are turning our country into the type of country that we have spoken out against in other countries around the world.

The people on the street don't want war but we have people in higher office who, once we pull out of one place (most recently Iraq) are busy looking for a new place to invade and they will game the system until they succeed.

[JHB]

32. That seems to have been the "elite consensus" since the 70s

It's a point of absolute ideology for Movement Conservatives, whose "golden era" is (aptly) the Guilded Age when business interests pretty much owned the government. Related to that, one of the unsung points Paul Krugman has mentioned in his column is the way "freshwater" (a.k.a., "Chicago School&quot economists seem completely ignorant of the data and precedent behind his arguments apparently because they practically purged any non-neoliberal views (like Keynesianism) from their curricula -- They didn't even learn it to argue against it. That's created a kind of economic Lysenkoism in elite circles (Republican, Democratic, and in Europe) demanding deregulation of businesses, lower taxes on the wealthy, and attacking the "welfare state" (any programs that mitigate the harsh effects of unbridled capitalism.

It seems like in the 70s this neoliberal economic view became a religious-like doctrine for "pro-business" interests both among the Rockefeller Republicans and the Democratic establishment. Not so coincidentally, around the same time the rise of television advertising in political campaigns made fundraising even more central to a politician's career than it had been and spawned a generation of political consultants who relied on it at the expense of nearly everything else.

With politicians ever-more reliant on contributions for campaign funding, the interests of donors have been what they heard. For some it's been a matter of ideology, but for the rest it's a rationalization for policies that they think will be good for their investments. And not cost them money in higher taxes.

You could see the effects during the arguments about raising taxes on the wealthy: "is $250,000 rich?" "should we add another tax bracket at the top. While the president and "centrist" Democrats focused on the $250K number, none of them pointed out that prior to the 1970s the number of tax brackets affecting incomes over $250K was not less than 40% and mostly over 60%. The percentage of brackets affecting incomes over 500K had been around 30% to a little under 50%. The top brackets used to kick in for incomes in the millions. The high inflation in the 70s pushed those percentages down (they weren't indexed for inflation back then) until Reagan, when progressive taxation on high incomes was wiped out completely: one or two brackets kicking in above $250K, and zero kicking in above $500K.

Money talks, and the people with it say "don't cost us money". So economic policy revolves around "pro-business" policies that go real easy on companies that reduce their overhead by reducing payroll in all sorts of ways. The money they save on paying employees is less money for the standard of living for employees in general. And if American workers can be made to get used to it, it won't cost the people benefiting from the current setup any money. So they want you to get used to it, and many politicians are happy to cater to that (and may have bought into that view themselves -- particularly the millionaires in Congress).

[B Calm]

34. Conservatives goal is cheap labor. That's why I

will never understand why anybody who works for a paycheck votes Republican. Do they enjoy shooting theirself in the foot for their employers entertainment?

[deutsey]

40. I've actually had a conservative friend of mine from the working class say

that he supports Republican policies favoring the rich because he plans on being rich one day.

[B Calm]

42. It's amazing how simple and stupid some people can be. Do

they lack having common sense, or could it be they enjoy pain?

[Brigid]

89. I call it "Steinbeck Syndrome."

He said, "The reason socialism never took root in America is that too many Americans believe they are just temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

[TheMastersNemesis]

35. What Reagan And The GOP Have Done Is Crystal Clear. Yet The GOP Is Still Viable.

The worst Democrat is still better by far than the best Republican who is a sociopath. If you are a Dem you face a real problem. If you run as a progressive you lose. The political terrain forces most Dems to move right or run on somewhat innocuous pro GOP policies.

It really blew me away when I worked at a homeless shelter years ago and one of my homeless day laborers was voting Republican. Voted for Bob Dole. I have a friend who used to work for the County Employment office tell me that GOPPERS who lost their jobs came in and blamed Obama when they lost their job long before he was president. You really cannot make this stuff up. I never will understand such complete mental dislocation.

[n2doc]

50. This about sums it up

[Nay]

55. I know so many people like this it isn't even funny. Great cartoon. nt

[ctsnowman]

107. lol Love it.

[hunter]

108. Why do those kids look sad?

They ought to be thanking God their mom has a 24-7 job in the sweatshop and can buy the family Dog Chow while dad defends the place under the bridge.

Don't those kids see how good they have it?

[TBF]

37. Well, I would say it's sort of the reverse -

they just don't think about it at all. The politicians and business owners are concerned about productivity and profit. Period. I don't think they think about us AT ALL. Watch the old George Carlin skits - he was right on the money with his analysis. We are just cheap labor to them. And we are about to get cheaper as more jobs are shipped off shore with TPP.

Yes it has the effect of equalizing labor around the globe. As a socialist I can only look at that and say "OK, if this is what you are doing as global owners, then as global workers the rest of us need to organize in response". It would be different if EVERYONE were being asked to give up luxuries in order to make more for all. I am totally on board with that. But that is not what is going on - instead just a few billionaires worldwide are handsomely profiting while everyone else loses.

And that is why TPP is very, very important. They try to take over the Internet with that legislation as well. Between that and net neutrality we may lose one of our main organizational tools.

[badtoworse]

38. Competition will drive down the cost of anything and labor is no exception

American labor does not have the leverage it had in the 60's. American workers are competing in a global market place and in many cases, foreign workers are willing to do the same job for less. It's no more complicated than that.

[Eleanors38]

48. Except when labor organizes. Like during the Depression.

[badtoworse]

49. The world was very different then

American companies had virtually no alternatives to American labor, so unionized labor had substantial leverage. That is no longer true, a fact that many on this board don't want to accept.

[Eleanors38]

99. This assumes the "altetnative" to American labor won't

Unionize itself (GE is spending 1 bill $ to move most of its appliance manufacturing back to the U.S. Reason: Increasing labor costs overseas.)

It is quite true things are different. You can talk to union organizers and political groups in Shanghai, Lahore, Sao Paulo, and Jacksonville; I've heard that several Arab countries started revolts, wars and overthrows by using social media. Sloppy surgery, but it beats the alternative of "it ain't gonna change."

BTW, what is your alternative?

[TBF]

54. And that is why we socialists are organizing globally -

and we're not going to stop.

[deutsey]

39. The so-called "Reagan Revolution" was actually a massive right-wing Reaction

against the social, political, and cultural gains made by working people since the New Deal.

Their goal, in my opinion, was to stop that progress and to dismantle it over time, reasserting in its place a new kind of feudalistic order with a very wealthy and powerful ruling elite "trickling down" on the rest of us.

What began in the '70s with the clarion call of the Powell Memo went on to become a smashing success with the Reagan and Bushx2 regimes (especially W) and with the complicity of many Democrats and even many of us peons being trickled down upon.

[Dawson Leery]

80. +1,000,000

[ananda]

41. That is how this global free market fascism works.

However, American workers have already been "positioned" to accept
less pay for more work, even to accept hunger and homelessness.

[gollygee]

44. I think so too

Whenever I see something on Facebook about how many people live in poverty or are in hunger, my Republican family members pipe in about how we don't really know what poverty and hunger are because no one in the US is really poor or hungry. The background message to that seems to be that poor Americans are doing to well and should be as poor and hungry as the poor in other countries.

[ananda]

87. They likely think that real poverty looks like the worst of Black Africa or ..

.. the black hole of Calcutta or something.

But we're America. Our poor and hungry aren't really poor and hungry.
We're exceptional!

[bklyncowgirl]

46. Think of that car ad where a car brings a baby home and is later given to her as a graduation gift.

Now that by itself is not a bad thing, but not so long ago, those of us who held onto and drove our old wrecks until they were too expensive to fix were frugal outliers in a culture of consumption. The expectation was simply that people in the middle class would be able to buy a new car every few years.

Now are middle class Americans are being conditioned to think of a car as a more permanent resource--even something to hand down to our kids or are auto makers responding to a reality in which people are afraid to buy new cars because they do not want the debt on their heads in case they lose their jobs?

I don't know. What I do know is that we are all caught up in this culture of greed where livelihoods and even lives are expendable.

I would love to believe that Americans will come to their senses and use what little power that remains to them to set things right but I don't see that happening any time soon.

[get the red out]

51. She is right

I agree completely!!!!

[liberal N proud]

52. Gen X'ers will have a lower standard of living than Baby Boomer's

That is a fact the oligarchs are making sure of.

[MO_Moderate]

53. All part of the Bilderbergers plan

NWO! NWO! NWO!

[TBF]

56. FFS. We don't need to look to conspiracy -

capitalism is bad enough without making up fairy tales.

[MO_Moderate]

59. Lets see now

A small group of like minded people talking about another group trying to take over something? Check.
A small group of like minded people talking about the evil plot of others to enslave them? Check.
A small group of like minded people talking about "proof" of something that only they are smart enough to see? Check.

Yeah, you're right. No conspiracy theorizing going on here.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

67. Are you saying the Bilderberg Group is a CT?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group

If you acknowledge they exist, are you saying that they are benign?

[TBF]

68. I'm saying capitalism itself is the problem. nt

[ChisolmTrailDem]

71. NO, that is NOT what you said. You said BG is a "conspiracy". You jumped in here so, please...

...answer my questions:

1) Does the Bilderberg Group exist?

2) If you answer "Yes" to Q1, are they benign?

Thank you.

[TBF]

81. You seem to have difficulty

understanding that whether such a group exists is nothing but a distraction. An intentional distraction in my view.

I refuse to look at your shiny object.

I repeat that the problem is Capitalism.

[a kennedy]

57. and you have heard about the possible new law in Wisconsin......a 7 DAY WORK WEEK....

If the worker wants it. Ugh....

[LiberalEsto]

63. The 7-day week is a reality in the IT industry

with no overtime pay.

Work 7 days a week, or be replaced by someone on an H-1b visa.
Sometimes work 7 days and STILL be replaced by an H-1b.

[CrispyQ]

104. Some states are working to diminish child labor laws.

Family values = My family is valued, yours is not.

Goddamned fucking hypocrites.

[Xyzse]

58. There are some huge truths in that.

There are already some Republican novelists that talk about how people should be ok with a lower standard of living.

It was featured even in NPR!

Lately NPR has been giving voice to fringe idiots, and it is sad to hear.

[The2ndWheel]

60. We live on a finite planet

The rest of the world has been opening up for decades. The more people there are available for work, the less you're going to need to pay for work to be done. Throw in advances in automation, and people are not only competing against other people, but machines that don't need to eat, sleep, or have children to take care of.

That's where, eventually, governments will just have to give money to people as a basic income, or else there will be a lot of unrest in various forms. But then we come back to the finite planet thing.

If all the work is getting done, but people who don't have to do that work still have money and so still consume all that is produced(which sounds an awful lot like all those rich people we hate), is there enough planet for everyone? Not only in terms of people. There's a whole web of life out there that shares the planet with us. How much of the planet have we already privatized for the human species? How much more will we take?

[FarCenter]

61. There are roughly 4 billion "bottom of the pyramid" workers that unskilled Americans compete with

Google "bottom of the pyramid workers" or "base of the pyramid workers" for more info.

First, they compete with Americans by either manufacturing imports, performing services work by telecommunications networks, or by competing for natural resources, such as crude oil, minerals, and ores, many of which come from other parts of the globe.

Secondly, cheap networking and information technology means that many of these 4 billion are rapidly learning English and becoming more skilled. Thus they will be competing on a higher level. Notably, they already manufacture much of the cheap information technology.

From a moral perspective, it seems fair that these people should have an equal opportunity to acquire goods and services. In the past, the US has supported economic development in underdeveloped countries around the world. Presumably, some of this was for ethical reasons, and not just a Cold War strategy.

[lumberjack_jeff]

62. I'm surprised this isn't patently obvious to everyone.

Everything TPTP does has this effect, even the things they say they're doing to improve employment.

The pundit class has a paradox on their hands. They want to prosecute the real class war in a way that people won't notice and preserve the illusion that we're one country.

[Jazzgirl]

64. I remember hearing years ago about how the very wealthy were upset

because "regular" people were able to buy some of the same things they bought. I used to have an account at Saks. that's when they had a selection of "reasonably" priced items. I didn't shop there much but if I wanted something special a couple of times a year I could get it. The last time I went they had sales racks pulled in the aisle with items marked down to $1500! I'm talking little ugly sweaters and shirts!

The rich want to remain way above everyone else. They don't want to socialize with "us" and they certainly don't want to see us carrying the same purses or wearing the same shoes.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

65. Current GD threads related to the big picture...

Last edited Fri Jan 17, 2014, 01:48 PM - Edit history (1)

47% of today’s jobs could be automated in the next two decades
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024346651

Excuse me while I vomit: WaPo's editorial endorsing the TPP- because it'll help income inequality
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024346749

David Brooks Is Tired Of All This Income Inequality Talk
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024346207

Fear is Why Workers In Red States Vote Against Their Economic Self-Interest
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024343034

Republican State Senator (Wisconsin) says having lots of money gives your kids "less values".
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024346020

ETA:

Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin GOP Senator, Fights For A Seven-Day Workweek
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024273537

[bananas]

112. Thanks for those links

I wasn't aware they wanted a 7 day workweek.
It used to be that everything was closed on Sunday, by law.

[KamaAina]

66. Your wife is correct.

Would she consider running for Congress?

[jwirr]

70. I agree with her but the powers that be had better understand that we the people will not agree to

be left homeless, hungry, freezing and dying in the streets due to lack of health care.

One of the examples that show this is housing. We have gone from a owning homes to living in multiple generational families in the last 20+ years. At one time this year I have lived with my 4 generation family. We are now down to 3 generations. I have mixed feelings about this because I grew up in an era (Great Depression) when this was normal. But I do know that overcrowding is not good.

Hunger is another example. We have lived in a time of plenty in the USA since the food stamp program was established. Now they want us to give up almost all of the food supplementary programs. I do not have mixed feelings about this. This week I am struggling to feed 3 children enough so that they are not hungry and still keep my own diabetes diet as it should be. We are often without the foods we need.

Health care seems to be the one thing we are winning on. But not without the rw throwing a fit. They would also take that if they are allowed.

And finally is the problems with labor laws. If corporations could they would get rid of the minimum wage altogether. And these trade agreements do nothing but try to create a leveled labor force around the world and it is not for better wages but for a much lower standard of living. If they have their way we will all be third world countries and there will be one small gated community on an island somewhere for the 1%.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

73. Yes, Americans WILL allow themselves to be left homeless, hungry, etc. Indeed, we already

have allowed it. Millions lost jobs and homes through no fault of their own (unless you want to argue that some Americans who could not afford them signed the bottom line on new homes) and what do you hear? Silence.

Millions lost billions and billions of dollars to the financial crash of 2008. Silence.

1.3 million, and another ~64,000/mo this year, and what do you hear? Silence.

Million of Americans lose SNAP benefits. Silence.

Millions denied Medicaid expansion funds. Silence (with half the idiot population cheering it on, even.)

Americans, on the whole, are frightened, well-conditioned cowards who will do nothing except cower in a fetal position while remaining...Silent (although there may be some occasional audible whimpering that will be stomped in the mud by brutal police-state means. Think Occupy. ).

[jwirr]

74. Shh I do not want to think that way. It is too scary.

[lpbk2713]

76. It's the war on the Middle Class.

It's been going on for decades and they're not taking any prisoners.

[JNelson6563]

77. Long term plan coming to fruition.

The right finally got enough people to put aside their differences and focus on their common ground. Pro-life and the NRA hand in hand. Took many years and they had to purchase the entire US media but they are realizing their long held dream of reinstating the closest thing they will ever have to slavery.

Julie

[OregonBlue]

78. She is correct. They want us to compete for our jobs with the Chinese labor force.

[2naSalit]

82. Here's an interesting article found in

the CommonDreams archives that says a lot. Actually rather prophetic since it was written back in 2007.


http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0208-24.htm

Food for thought or just recently confirmed prediction?

[raven mad]

83. When Reagan was elected,

my Mom was still alive and was appalled. She said then (all those many years ago), and I quote, because I'll never forget it:

"Hon, this is the beginning of the end. All the Republican Party desires is to have an oligarchy, complete with serfs pulling their forelocks. Mark my words."

Just before she died, she said, "What Reagan started, Bush (GW) finished. I fear for Christi (her only granddaughter)."

[cap]

84. That's the Truth from the Wharton Private Equity folks

went to one of their meetings and they were talking about how the plan is to bring down the average wage in the US to that of Korea.

Also verified from the CEO at Krispy Kreme in another Wharton conference. He wants all regulation to go.

[liberal_at_heart]

85. I agree with your wife. It's been happening since Reagan.

[Kurovski]

88. Yes, as is discussed upthread. Reagan, and ever since.

They've been heating up that frog. and now the pot is about to boil.

Is the poster's wife younger than 40, I wonder?

[deafskeptic]

86. The op reminds me of a conservation I had with my dad who's very conservative back in the 90s,

I remember saying to him that the only way we would get manufacturing jobs back in the USA was if we lowered our wages to be on par or even lower than the Chinese or what ever country has the lowest paid workers.

Only then our jobs would come back. He didn't like what I said at all. That was way back in the 90s when the downsizing trend was just starting off.

[Bettie]

93. My DH used to say I was paranoid in my thoughts that corporations

are working to get the world's most efficient work force (productivity wise) to work for 3rd world wages.

1. Outsource jobs.
2. Crash the economy.
3. Remove some regulations.
4. Remove some of the safety net.
5. Build back up, but keep wages on a downward trend...

Repeat steps 2-5 until wages reach desired level.

Eventually, we're worn down and afraid and willing to accept any jobs under any conditions just to feed our families.

Now, someone please tell me I am paranoid and this isn't happening. I'll sleep better if smart people tell me it isn't happening.

[Mr Dixon]

94. IMO

There is so much truth in what has been stated the problem is the public are too selfish to believe it.....SMH we could shout it from the mountain tops and the public would not Hear us.

[marmar]

97. That much is clear. And they want to drive the TPP nail into that coffin.

[ctsnowman]

109. When most of are reduced to living like this then we will be able to compete.

Your wife is right.

[RKP5637]

110. Perhaps it is time to just disconnect en mass from the whole mess. n/t

[doc03]

113. Some of us workers like in the steel industry figured that one out

over 30 years ago.

[valerief]

117. No need to believe it. It's so obvious, it doesn't require faith. nt

[BigDemVoter]

120. I live in one of the 2 poorest states in the country. . .

And yes, indeed, it is a RED state, chock full of fundamentalists who rant and rave about the evils of "ObamaCare."

I work in a hospital as an RN, and one would THINK that nurses would SUPPORT increasing the numbers of insured citizens.

NOPE. . . The other day, I was in my office, and I listened to a Respiratory Therapist talking to a patient's family member about how "ObamaCare is a plot against America." Given that I'm not a Christian, I was unable to follow his quotes from "Scripture", but I am quite sure that they were bogus and his logic was flawed.

Furthermore, the nurses in my state are paid slave wages. You would be appalled at the idiocy I hear about how bad unions are. . I moved here from San Francisco, one of the highest paying locations in the country for nurses, and a union stronghold. The nurses here are perfectly content to earn shitty wages, pay huge co-pays for their shitty insurance, and work like dogs with unsafe nurse to patient ratios . . . They have been so brainwashed that it is impossible to even try to reason with them.

One last thing that comes to mind, and I DO have to bitch about it, as nobody wants to listen to me here. . . The other day, at a meeting, two nurse managers were talking about how our presidential candidates need to "have biblical values." They both stated that they were unable to understand or follow presidential debates and voted for the one they thought followed the "teachings of the Bible." the last bit of "hilarity" was when one said that "oh golly, I DO worry that these candidates may just be paying lip service and may actually be Moslem!"

Shit! I'm not sure how long I'll be able to remain here, but if I'm able to put aside my disgust and anger, they really provide me with some fodder for a good laugh. Nonetheless, it is a sad state to hear such ignorant assholes making such asinine statements, and it's not wonder we have such FuckTards in our state politics. . .

So, yeah, I would say that these Sheep will be perfectly happy to accept a lower standard of living; they already have and do. . . .

[Cleita]

121. Your wife is not wrong. Thom Hartmann has played quotes on

his program of Alan Greenspan talking about job insecurity to keep wages down and other jackasses I don't remember speaking about getting the cheapest workers they could find in the world. This is what the TPP is largely about, keeping the cost of employees down for the global corporate interests.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

123. I think that there is a grain of truth to that observation

We're ALL being asked to accept lower wages, fewer raises, lower benefits, lower entitlements when we get ready retire (which some forces are trying to stretch out), etc. It's a race to the bottom it would seem.

[Alcibiades]

124. Karl Marx said much the same thing

He called it the emiseration of the proletariat, and it's an inevitable result of the historical development od advanced capitalism.

He was wrong about one thing: it does not necessarily lead to revolution. People will accept a shit sandwich for generations.

[IADEMO2004]

125. 'we need to bring the US wages more in line with the Chinese Grassley(R-IA-BCBS)

From DU member Rurallib



- statement from the crowd: I don't want national health care. Why should my money pay for people that practice bad habits? (Oh how I wanted to shout "you already do you idiot&quot
- after a statement about the debt to the Chinese (which Grassley brushed off as 'insignificant') the questioner stated 'something has to be done about the difference in wages between the US and China.' And then he said (i kid you not) 'we need to bring the US wages more in line with the Chinese.'
- Old lady next to me started going on and on about 'illegals' and how much we spend on them. We had our mentee with us, a young man of Mexican lineage. I asked him afterwards if that made him mad. He said not anymore, he hears it so much.


More at link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/harveywasserman.com/bcnews.go.com/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=152x22380

[Boomerproud]

126. K&R

Yes, we must start to learn how to work harder, eat less, put all of our dreams (like a vacation) on hold.

[democratisphere]

128. Since the Members of Congress do nothing and get nothing constructive done.....

I believe the American people should insist ALL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS should become part timers with commensurate part time pay. Further, Members of Congress should not receive a bloated pension with any benefits when they leave office. After all, We are broke and must tighten our belts until it hurts. The American worker has been positioned to accept a lower living standard for many decades. See you at the dollar store!

[Phlem]

129. I knew that years ago but you know how that would've played.

When my job was exported I started seeing other "types" of jobs being exported too and thought, what if...

Ugh......

what ever, as a long term unemployed self contractor, I can squeeze a meager living in for my self...not, I have a wife and child as well.

I never paid into unemployment because I thought another job would be right around the corner, till there were no more corners.

I guess I qualify as "through the cracks", anything for that? .....no?....

*sigh* it's been to long.

3rd world across the globe, woo hoo!

-p

[Skeeter Barnes]

130. They want high unemployment so wages stay down and workers stay desperate.

When losing a job might mean going for a year or more without a paycheck, workers will be more likely to work in dangerous conditions and work faster to keep their job. They will work without breaks, paid holidays, vacations, work punishing hours, etc.. just to avoid being homeless.

And we didn't get here by just one party doing all this to us. One party hates us and will come right out and say it. The other says they want to help but they do not mean it.

Your wife is right and workers all over the world will have to form and join global Unions in order for things to get better.

[blkmusclmachine]

131. Wife Believes American Workers Being Positioned To Accept Lower Living Standards

You betcha! And it's oh so "bi-partisan," too!

11 dimensions of "bi-partisanship."

[MsPithy]

132. Yup. We are all Bob Cratchit, now.

[aggiesal]

136. Smart woman. You should marry her! n/t

[TheMastersNemesis]

139. I Did - We Both Have Felt This Way About The Economy For A Long Time.

[politicman]

137. its true.

Of course people are being positioned to accept a lower standard of living.

This is achieved by cutting jobs and by outsourcing which in turn results in overwhelming numbers of people applying for the few jobs available, thus the employer has desperate people that will work for less just so they can try and scrounge enough money to feed their families.

This also doesn't affect the quality of the work being done, because to get these few jobs that give shitty wages, people still need to get all kinds of degrees to qualify.


Its because of a couple of factors:

1) Money creates more greed:
The more money a person has, the greedier they get. and thus want more money, and so on.
The 1% have billions of dollars, they could never spend it all no matter if they kept purchasing every hour of the day, but they still want more money, which they get at the expense of normal working people.
For instance: Bill Gates is worth 67 billion dollars, how much more money would be enough for him?
(This is nothing against Gates who has done some good, but it was an example of rich people not being satisfied with already having enough to last their families for the next 15 generations).


2) The Stock Market:
The fact that the stock market punishes the stock price of company's for not constantly beating expectations is another reason why company's care about profits more than providing a living wage to the few workers they have left.

The stock market would be a good thing if people bought shares in company's and expected only dividends and the rise in price of the shares if the company performed well.
The problem is that the stock market has become all about 'speculation'
People buying shares based on speculation has created a market where investing in a company no longer means owning a share of that company and taking a share of its profits, but instead has resulted in trying to speculate as to how the rest of the market will treat a company that you plan on buying shares of.

This leads to company's doing everything in their power to maximise profits so as to beat the streets expectations as this is the only sure way of decreasing the ups and downs in share prices as a result of speculation.

The CEO's and their staffs also have large amount of their company's shares, and market sure the market does not punish their share price means they continue to male money as well.

And this all comes back to what I said earlier, money creates more greed.

[Arugula Latte]

138. Yes. It explains the wilfull destruction of the public school system, and allowing the

"public" university system to become ridiculously out of reach for most families...$35,000 a year for a "cheap" state school? Are they effing kidding? Just to get a mostly worthless diploma a lot of kids go deep into debt from which they will never fully recover.

It's a great system -- for the one percent.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

146. Catch-22 writ large.

Workers who are forced to work for less buy less. And, what they buy is foreign made because it's cheaper. Which, in turn, means less jobs and lower wages.

Catch-22 non- solution: Raise tariffs on foreign goods. Now, workers wouldn't be able to buy what they produce because their wages are too low, and wouldn't be able to buy foreign goods because they would be too expensive.

American companies wouldn't be able to sell their products overseas because they would be too expensive.

Solution: "Workers of the world, unite".

[Quantess]

147. "...brought down to a level closer to the rest of the globe." Hah.

There are a lot of non-Americans who have hig standards of living, thank you. Or was she referring to third world countries, or the maybe the poorer countries on the OECD list?

[woo me with science]

148. Barack Obama(2006): "This is not a bloodless process."

Your wife is correct. From these "free trade" assaults that lower wages and smash regulations and worker/taxpayer protections to the concerted effort to eliminate safety nets, this is a vicious, bipartisan agenda of infiltrating corporatists that has been planned and in the works for a long time.

Barack Obama(2006): "This is not a bloodless process."

Also: "Too many of us have been interested in defending programs as written in 1938."

More here:

Obama and the Hamiltonian Democrats
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1540315

[woo me with science]

149. kick