If only ALL childless-by-choice people could learn something from this author.

[BeachBaby]

"I feel bad about my pre-children smugness. I feel bad about the sting I may have, unknowingly, made another feel. I feel bad -- and laugh out loud at the thought -- that I, at one time, before I had children, believed I knew better. Parenting is difficult enough -- there's no reason we should judge one another, not for the things that don't matter, anyway, and not for the things we see a snippet of rather than knowing the full story."

Full article here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kara-gebhart-uhl/mom-judgments_b_1319775.html

[TlalocW]

1. Number 1: We're called childfree

Number 2: That author can go fuck herself.

Not every childfree person (nor every parent) feels smugness about their position. She, however, is smug no matter what. She was smug about her lifestyle before, and she's smug (but trying to pass it off as being contrite) about her lifestyle now. A cursory look at her blog reveals that every single post is about "me, me, me." Yawn. I expect all blogs to be that to a certain extent, but the good ones have authors capable of looking outside themselves every now and then.

Now if only every parent could learn something from me:
1. Not all of us hate kids, and even if we do, so what? It's the adults that really, really love kids that you have to worry about if you catch my drift.
2. We're just as full of love as other people for family, spouses, the general public, etc. One childree woman I know - along with being a loving wife and working part time, splits her free time between working with animal shelters (specifically feral cats), working a suicide hotline, and does big brothers/big sisters. Another childfree couple mentor minority students and help them do everything short of paying for books (and sometimes that) to get them to go to college.
3. If we're calling you on something, maybe we are being a jerk, but you know, just because you have a kid doesn't mean you're doing what's best for them - example: bringing a newborn baby to an incredibly loud action movie. "The reason it's crying, dumbass, is that you're torturing it by keeping it inside the theater where loud noises are permanently damaging its hearing," was the helpful information I offered to a new dad trying to shush his 3-MONTH-OLD during a showing of the incredibly loud movie, The Hulk.

And just to sum up, if the childfree do come off as smug, it's because we've had good examples set for us by certain breeds of parents.

TlalocW

[kestrel91316]

2. Awesome response. Took the words right off my keyboard.

[ohheckyeah]

3. You saved me a lot of time

and I'll just say I agree.

[laruemtt]

4. +1 million!

[tammywammy]

5. +1 n/t

[IrishEyes]

6. I agree.

I like children. I like my nieces and nephews. I like my friend"s kids. I just don't have any urge to have one of my own. I may adopt a child someday but if I don't I will still have a fabulous, happy life.

[csziggy]

8. +1000000

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. so true

esp love this "Not every childfree person (nor every parent) feels smugness about their position. She, however, is smug no matter what. She was smug about her lifestyle before, and she's smug (but trying to pass it off as being contrite) about her lifestyle now. A cursory look at her blog reveals that every single post is about "me, me, me." Yawn. I expect all blogs to be that to a certain extent, but the good ones have authors capable of looking outside themselves every now and then. "

[Blue_Tires]

40. I don't know her situation, but I also noticed

how much "me" was in that long piece with nary a mention of a husband/boyfriend/kids' father...I'm guessing he does like zero work??

[Jennicut]

11. My best friend does not want kids. She dotes on mine.

She is a sweet, loving person. At 31, she loves working full time, having freedom to go wherever she wants. She is not married but lives with her boyfriend. I am married, love having my kids and spending time with them. Neither of us could imagine our lives the other way, and that is really fine with us. I don't get why women can't just not be allowed to be happy with what life they chose to have. It is 2012, after all.

[BigDemVoter]

12. Excellent Response!

I agree with you 100%!!

[obamanut2012]

14. Cosign your entire post

EXCELLENT!

[REP]

21. Fuck yes. Thank you.

[Behind the Aegis]

23. +1

She was smug before, and it seems that hasn't changed. Only the target changed.

[KT2000]

24. Thank you

very well said.
Yes - the author is bonafide narcissist who thinks everyone is like her - or should be.

[liberalhistorian]

25. Perfectly said!

I've never understood people who feel they had the right to judge the personal life choices of others, especially when it comes to the very intensely personal decision as to whether or not to have children. That goes for both sides, I've known smug parents who disdain the child-free and slap them with the "selfish" label (never mind that true selfishness is demanding that those who don't want or aren't ready for children have them just to make YOU feel better, particularly since the people demanding it aren't the ones who will be raising the children). And, on the other side, I've known child-free persons and couples who are just as disdainful, smug and judgmental regarding parents, but who felt perfectly qualified to make judgments about and question the parenting of some parents when they have no clue about what they're talking about, and who seem to resent the fact that children exist at all and that they have to be around them (fortunately, they're in the definite minority, but it sure is annoying).

People should have the right to make whatever choice they want regarding parenthood without having to deal with judgment, disdain and social clucking. It's no one else's business or concern except for the person or couple, no matter what they decide.

I'm a mother myself (my son is grown now, boy, that went QUICK!), but what would really drive me crazy if I were child-free is having to constantly hear "oh, you'll change your mind when you get older", or "you don't know what you're missing, you're really going to regret this when you're older", and similar yurunda. We have a couple of child-free couples as long-time family friends and they constantly had to deal with that shit. Now that they're older and retired, they're hearing the "you probably really regret it now, don't you" yurunda even more.

[Ruby the Liberal]

26. Sweet mother of pearl.

[freeplessinseattle]

32. Thank you, thank you, thank you! Very well stated eom

[hifiguy]

37. Sweet response, Tlaloc!

[Blue_Tires]

38. thank you

summed up my thoughts perfectly...

I'm not trying to "judge", but I did raise an eyebrow at the thought of idling the family SUV in the driveway for 25 minutes because she didn't want wake up the twins...

[Vincardog]

7. Was I smug? Well EXCUUUUSE me.

[laruemtt]

9. what i am really sick of

is hearing from some "fulfilled" mother that i somehow don't really know about love and life because i've never given birth, like i'm some kind of lower life form...

[Lucy Goosey]

16. Yes! This!

I seriously got some of this from my doctor when I asked about getting a referral for a tubal ligation.

[undeterred]

13. If only ...

[Lucy Goosey]

15. ...but not all childfree-by-choice people are anywhere near as judgemental as her.

I just had to deal with some horribly smug judgement parochialism from my doctor this week when I asked him about getting a referral for a tubal ligation. (I'm 37 and I've never wanted kids.) Having kids is still the more popular choice, and those of us who choose not to are regularly on the receiving end of judgement or misplaced pity.

So this author feels bad about her pre-child smugness? Good for her; she learned something. I am not "pre-child," nor am I smug, so there was nothing for me to learn from this article.

[moriah]

27. The only thing I "judge" my childfree older sister about....

... is leaving me to carry all of my mother's hopes for grandchildren! She finally gave up on my Sis, who's nine years older than me, but when I asked her new husband if she'd said she wanted anything for Christmas, the response was "A grandchild."

My response to that: "Uh, they don't sell those in stores..."

(In all seriousness, my sister and her husband of 15 years are very happy being childfree, they like it that way, and it's not my place to judge. I just gripe because now Mom's putting the pressure on me instead, and there's a prerequisite in my mind ... having a decent husband who is father material... that has to come first.)

[We are Devo]

17. yaayyy

Glad there's some childfree peeps here! Anyone on my favorite forum, TCFL?

[frylock]

18. brian griffin's drunken "until you have a child..." rant was more compelling..

than this crap. the first response to this post summed it up beautifully. this woman comes off as a smug asshole from jump.

[erinlough]

19. Parenting was the hardest job I have ever had.

My son and his wife have decided to be childfree and when he asked me if it bothered me I told him that parenting is a full time, lifetime commitment that only someone who is totally sure they want that commitment should do. He and his wife are happy with their life style and have made a choice. Who is anyone, especially me, to question that. As far as I can see they are both good with other peoples children and tend to be non-judgmental anyway, so this article does not compute for me.

[fishwax]

20. meh -- in my experience, parents are about as likely to be judgmental as are the childfree

It's not as though the only people who complain about kids in public are the childfree folk. I could probably put all my nieces and nephews through college if I only had a nickel for every time I heard something along the lines of "I never would have let my kids get away with that."

It's good for people to be aware of things like smugness and blind spots, and to get a sense of how life actually is for those they may be tempted to judge. But frankly, I don't think "ALL childless-by-choice people" need to learn much of anything from that author. Her smugness was her own.

[lunasun]

22. May she should judge her self a little ....

from the blog >""Sometimes I leave dirty diapers on the changing table. My children's socks don't always match. I forget to brush my daughter's hair. I use TV as a way to take a breather. I utilize the fast-food drive-thru. I bribe.""

bribing my daughter with apps on my iPod and promises of candy once inside if she would just sit and be quiet for a half hour longer
.... And I left the car running (!) the entire time."'

She seems to not care about anything except whats easiest for herself -children need the attention

I see selfish parents like this all the time and I cant help but judge

Oh and btw 'Kara' there was no crossover or change upon my becoming a parent either - I didnt drop all hygiene and common sense.

So dont stereotype who is giving you the evil eye when your child with uncombed hair and mismatched socks has a tantrum for some toy they saw on TV and you ignore it just because I dont have a child with me or wear a wedding ring or am dressed in work clothes

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. What the "childed" and the "childfree" get wrong

The "childed" (and I believe I may have just made up this term) get it wrong when they elevate the fact of being a parent into some gnostic knowledge of "love and life," as a poster above eloquently wrote. Being a parent is being a parent: it is not some mystical entry into a higher plane of existence or feeling. The childed move from mistaken to arrogant when they take a fairly common life experience and elevate it into a universal "Should" for all people, making it the sine qua non of a "well lived life." It's the same with any fanaticism: you take something you prefer, and make it into a basic condition for an ethical life. It's a stupid way to think reserved for stupid people.

The childfree get it wrong when they think they know what the fact of being a parent feels like on any consistent basis. There is, actually, a gnosticism attached to having children that is not transferable through intellectual inquiry or substitutes. You don't get it by reading a lot about being a parent, or knowing your own parents, or hanging around a lot of parents, and you certainly don't get it by having a cat or a dog or taking care of your sister's kid for two weeks one summer, or volunteering at the Neighborhood Boys and Girls Club or St. Jude's Hospital, or whatever. It's similar to what has been called combat gnosticism: I have never been in the military or in combat, so I know that I don't know what those experiences are like - and I can read a million military history books and hang out with veterans and play laser tag or do the local neighborhood watch or do re-enactments or even go down to the shooting range til I'm blue in the face, and it won't be the same fucking thing. It just won't. The childfree move from mistaken to arrogant whenever they think they can get over that basic hump separating them from those who live the experience. And especially, fer Chrissakes, your dog is not a kid. Your cat is not "like" a daughter. If people simply stopped saying that nonsense, much of these fights could be avoided.

[renate]

34. Very well said. Parenthood is HARD FUCKING WORK and it's NOT for everyone, although I love it

There's nothing at all selfish about not wanting children. And there's no way a childfree person can compare parenthood to anything else, because parenthood is so inexplicably complex. While a childfree person can love their dog or cat more than their own life, they don't know what it's like to, for example, guide their dog or cat through bullying or insecurity or existential angst.

Sometimes I think the people who suffer from parenthood the most are the ones who devote themselves to it the most wholeheartedly. (On the plus side, not only do they suffer the most, they generally get the most out of it.) It is fricking difficult, and that's if you're lucky. I have relatively easy kids whom I adore (and I think/hope it's mutual), yet every day I think I need, or have earned, a degree in psychology to do this well. (I hope I'm doing this well....)

The fact that parenthood is common doesn't mean it's trivial or easy, oh good lord, no. People who don't want kids shouldn't be made to feel as though they ought to have them and they should be applauded for their self-knowledge and self-confidence in resisting pressure. Having always unquestioningly wanted kids, I would not trade it for any other experience, but I'm also glad to have only had two and not the four I had originally hoped for, because I would be plumb. worn. out.

I have a friend who married quite late and regretted not having children, not by choice. And I totally (having had infertility problems) get that. On the other hand, she didn't miss out on all the butting heads, trauma, hurt feelings, self-doubt, guilt, potential scarring for life, lack of any kind of free time for about eight or ten years per kid, etc. (To anyone reading this who's contemplating having children, my kids happen to be relatively high maintenance--I have another friend whose kids have always been able to entertain themselves, with Legos and toys and then with reading, from infancy on.) Once the kids are here, you're changed forever, but being childless has many pros as well.

[REP]

35. Sorry; "childed" has been in use on Usenet since God was a child :-)

I'm Childfree and yes, I completely agree: cats are not children. That's why I have cats - because they're not children.

And thank you for pointing out that the Childfree are capable of experiencing both love and life. That line gets particularly old.

[Robb]

42. Very well said.

[Number23]

29. I don't get the screaming over this piece and I really don't care about it

I know many parents who laugh their asses off when we remember how we judged parents before we became parents ourselves.

I remember thinking more than once that I would NEVER have the screaming child at the drug store/grocery store etc. and that if my child did act like that, I would jack him/her up so fast they wouldn't even see it coming! My oldest never had a single tantrum but my youngest sure enough, threw herself in the floor in the pharmacy last year (she was about 15 months old). All I could do was shake my head and laugh at what the old me would have thought at seeing such a sight before whisking her out of the store.

My day-to-day routine isn't what I envisioned it would be four years ago. Some of the things I imagine I'm judged on now are minor, others, a little more major. But mostly they are simple faults and I now know that they don't make me a bad parent. Sometimes I leave dirty diapers on the changing table. My children's socks don't always match. I forget to brush my daughter's hair. I use TV as a way to take a breather. I utilize the fast-food drive-thru. I bribe. I'm sometimes too easy. I'm sometimes too hard. I sometimes make the wrong decision, give the wrong punishment, ask too much, ask too little. But within all these minor and major faults is a singular truth: Most days, I'm doing the best I can. And I honestly believe that's a truth that can be applied to most parents: Most days, we're all doing the best we can.

Thanks for posting this. I enjoyed reading it and I think many parents can understand exactly what this author is saying.

[SunSeeker]

30. +1

[Carla in Sequim]

31. Well, this is an interesting conversation

I'm going to be 59 years old in a few weeks. My child-bearing years were in a time of when, not if. And my 'disability' was being left-handed. You know, sometimes I can still feel my grandmother sticking her fork to my elbow when I was a kid and saying "Put that fork in your right hand!"
So, right from the start, I had to stand strong. Older ladies would bend close to me, after hearing I didn't have children, and whisper oh, poor dear, female problems, hmmm? And I would boldly, as their jaws dropped, reply no, I chose not to have any. Oh good lord that just put their little hats in a tilt, let me tell you!
Others would just wonder why their god would have put me here in the first place. Man, anybody else have to endure that in the 70's?
I stuck to my guns, as they say, because it was the right choice for me then and I have never regretted my decision.
My husband (of 32 years) and I rescue dogs. As a matter of fact, our Beagle, Jean Harlow, is 11 years old today. I wouldn't trade the life we have or the dogs we were able to share this life with.
I'm a doggy mommy. Best job in my world.

[jsmirman]

33. Good for you

I love my friends who are having children, I love my friends' children, and because my friends are not assholes they are not insufferable new parents. But I've met plenty of parents of that ilk. You've managed to reproduce! Congratulations! The miracle of life is surely a miracle, but there are other important things going on here on this Earth, thanks.

I still hope to find the right person and have a child or children, and be a thoroughly sufferable parent, when and if that time comes.

But God Bless the doggy mommies, too.

[Carla in Sequim]

39. You have made an excellent point

with your beautiful post.
I have more in common with the people who have children because it was the right choice than I do with the ones that did/didn't and have regrets. Know what I mean? Believe me, I find no solice when I hear well, good for you, I wish I hadn't had mine. Now, that is sad.
We all have a menu of choices to make in life. Some women become overburdened with the "I want it all' tack.

I looked at that menu and just decided to order a la carte.

You will find what you are looking for, probably at the least expected time. Look and listen with your heart then go with your gut. I wish you all the best.

[Occulus]

36. As a gay man who isn't allowed to get married,

ad who often sees very public opposition to people like me ever even having children in the first place, and who is consistently called a child molester by the very worst examples of "good parents" this nation has to offer,

FUCK THIS WHOLE THREAD.

[Carla in Sequim]

41. Occulus, here is what I say to you

You are part of the civil rights movement for this generation. It is shameful that the crazies have taken over with their extremist views that we have to take up the fight, again, for issues we thought were long settled. I for one am truly sorry it has taken some monentum away from what I consider as important, marriage equality.
Don't think for one minute that all our efforts don't include you. I'm doing everything I can to get Inslee elected Governor here in Washington for so many reasons, including the protection of the marriage equality bill signed into law just a few weeks ago. We will not go backward.

I feel good about where we are in this reelection cycle. The wingnuts are making it easy for a lot of indepentent voters to know to vote for Democrats. So fight, vote and hang in there!