Why should we post about abortion?

[whttevrr]

How about because Republicans are doubling down on trying to get it banned!?

It must be scary to be an informed woman in this country these days. I am saddened by the continuing onslaught from Texas
https://www.aclu.org/reproductive-freedom/planned-parenthood-v-abbott

...to New Mexico,
http://www.lifenews.com/2013/11/12/planned-parenthood-aclu-spend-500000-to-keep-abortion-legal-up-to-birth-in-new-mexico/

to... fuck... it's getting to be too many places to keep track of. This is something that cannot be ignored.
http://www.sfgate.com/business/bloomberg/article/Oklahoma-Rejected-by-High-Court-on-Ultrasound-4977893.php


They are not giving up any time soon... America needs to stay vigilant... Women cannot afford for Choice Supporters to give up the fight.

[leftstreet]

1. And DUers should lead in supporting the legal procedure

These arrogant, wasteful, ridiculous ramblings about 'personal opinions' make DU look stupid

[whttevrr]

3. With 'personal opinions' comes personal stories...

And in that personalization is the realization that this is important. I think whatever keeps the subject in the forefront is a good thing. There are a lot of people trying whatever they can to stop abortion.

And, in those threads on the 'personal opinions' of others there has been just as many revelations about what it means to women to have the right to choose. There really is a 'war on women'. It needs to be won by those who support a woman's right to choose what happens to her body.

Even in the argumentative threads that rail against words, we get to see the personal reasons why this is important. If someone does not want to 'hear' about it any more? They can just trash the thread and move on.

[theHandpuppet]

2. K & R!

[PeaceNikki]

4. a million times: yes

[whttevrr]

7. I'm thinking I should post something every time I see one of these news stories...

I found this place through a google search that was not about a political discussion board. I think there should be as many posts about this subject as is necessary to reach googles top ten results on a search for abortion. Maybe some young woman doing a search will find one of these threads and see how many people support her right to choose....

I dunno... it could happen...

Plus it really pissed me off that someone posted a shut up thread about this subject. Fuck That. The news is constantly droning on and on about all this legislation that is being passed and fought over. This shit is real. People are trying to take the choice away from women.

And then there's is that picture... The position of that woman, alone, in a hotel room alone... and dead.

That tragic picture from so long ago that spurred millions in this nation to say "No, never again."

The other side of that is all the pictures that were not taken. The horror of being alone in the world and bleeding to death is bad enough. But to know that we as a nation can prevent such tragedy with a safe legal procedure is to know that we cannot go back to that place. It is a choice that must not be taken away.

So yeah... I will not fucking let it drop!

[PeaceNikki]

8. thank you, thank you, thank you.

I am heading out the door for a jaunt, but did you know that a daughter of the woman in this iconic photo is one of the DUers who is a fierce advocate for choice? Her story haunts me to the core and I will also not fucking let it drop.

http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2010/05/03/gerri-santoros-abortion/

[whttevrr]

9. Yeah... I saw that...

We cannot let this drop.

[PeaceNikki]

17. .

[whttevrr]

18. Enjoy your stay...

[whttevrr]

19. I almost alerted...

But then I remembered that people like you need to be seen and heard. Then people will realize how much vigilance is needed to keep abortion safe, legal, and available.

[pintobean]

21. Someone did. Results here

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

This noob troll posted this reply about the mother of a DUer who died during a botched back-alley abortion. Please vote to hide this vicious nasty comment.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:46 PM, and the Jury voted 6-0 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: Wave goodbye, troll.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: MIRTer the pos
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: Paging MIRT. Get this piece of filth of the site please.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[whttevrr]

23. I know... It was a nasty post.

And I really wanted to alert on it. But I figured a chart showing how these kinds of people are working every day to make life harder for women would work as a rebuttal.

I should have followed my gut instinct and alerted.

[PeaceNikki]

24. I was the alerter.

I totally get what you mean, but her daughter is here... and that was beyond the pale.

[whttevrr]

26. Thank you...

I am glad the decision was unanimous.

[PeaceNikki]

29. me, too.

frankly, a little shocked given the current environment. But very glad.

[TBF]

77. The picture -

One of her daughters is a long-time member here whttevrr ... so it's not only a photo on the internet it's something tragic that happened in one of our friend's families. I forget her screen name but had an exchange with her a few years ago.

[whttevrr]

81. I remember...

[freshwest]

5. Sad state of affairs. K&R

[noiretextatique]

6. pisses me off to no end

[applegrove]

10. How about the GOP is using abortion to run in 2014. And

all of our statements like abortion should not be "rare" or wanting "abortion on demand" or "how adoption is no solution" can be used to prove to the independants that the left loves abortion and wants more of it. As many dead babies as possible is the meme that they want from this democratic site.

[whttevrr]

11. Oh please...

[REP]

33. You working for them now?

Only reich-wing trash comes up "dead babies" when talking about abortion, so I'm not sure why you bring that up ... ?

[nomorenomore08]

34. Stop being so damn scared of the Republicans. Spit in those fuckers' faces, they deserve it!

[PeaceNikki]

37. You do not understand the crisis situation we are in with regards to abortion rights.

Or you don't care.

[applegrove]

49. I understand that the GOP wants to paint any abortion after 20 weeks

as a late term abortion. They are changing the goal posts. Don't let them change how we feel about abortion: "safe, legal and rare" says it all.

[PeaceNikki]

50. No, it doesn't, applegrove. That phrase is harmful

We should discuss the harm, stigma and confusion that can be caused by the words we choose. ESPECIALLY with people who support choice and may not realize the potential harm or that the party has updated the language. The words in question of this thread are "safe, legal and rare" - specifically taking note of the word rare. In context of abortion (not unwanted pregnancies, abortion). The national party removed it because of the fact it's open to interpretation... and all of the reasons outlined in this OP.

*I* get that you and other liberals are very very likely to fully support choice. *I* get what you *MEAN* by rare. We *all* want to make unwanted pregnancies rare... but do you not see, even a little, how using the "rare" language can be harmful? There have been massive attacks in every state on abortion since 1989. And they are getting worse. And, as such, I feel it's incredibly important to discuss how our language forms our societal beliefs and vice versa. To quote LeftyMom from another thread...


LeftyMom
19. That's the political genius and moral cowardice of the phrase.
To pro-choice people it means "unplanned pregnancies shouldn't be common, for women's sake." To the mushy middle it means "abortions for deserving women but not for those trampy other women." To anti-choicers it means "let's whittle away at legalized abortion even if we can't get a ban past the Supremes yet."

It's a political Rorschach ink blot. It means what you want it to mean.

I have had at least 2 conversations here with people who literally said, "oh, hey. wow - I really hadn't thought about it like that, I will change my language". Others have been nasty, combative, dismissive and rude. And there's been a lot in between.

Bottom line - it's a discussion. This is a discussion board. It's an important topic to me and I thought to many other DUers. Again- the word that causes confusion, anger, harm, etc was REMOVED from the party platform for these reasons. It's just weird that so many DUers are fighting it.


Here is this is the Democratic Party altered platform (with "safe, legal, rare" removed):

Protecting A Woman's Right to Choose. The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman's right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right. Abortion is an intensely personal decision between a woman, her family, her doctor, and her clergy; there is no place for politicians or government to get in the way. We also recognize that health care and education help reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and thereby also reduce the need for abortions. We strongly and unequivocally support a woman's decision to have a child by providing affordable health care and ensuring the availability of and access to programs that help women during pregnancy and after the birth of a child, including caring adoption programs.


See? It's possible to support all of the things you discussed and leave the frequency out of the policy discussion to avoid the confusion and/or potential harm.

Ideally, abortion rates drop as a byproduct of the rest but we keep the focus on what it should be. We typically don't fight to expand access to something we want to be rare.

The discussion of this is not new. It's just new to DU. It's not that controversial.

In conclusion: correct, we should not use 'rare' in context to abortion.

Ever.

[whttevrr]

51. I would prefer safe, legal and available...

It is becoming less and less available. This really needs to be talked about. Safe and legal will definitely be rare when it is 100's of miles away.

[TorchTheWitch]

79. there's no reason that only a three word description is allowed

Safe, legal, affordable, available, private, personal, get your busy body nose out of any uterus that isn't your own, and keep your personal opinions about someone else's personal and private medical decisions to yourself because it's not any of your business what PERSONAL and PRIVATE medical decisions other women make, don't like abortion, then don't have one, etc., etc.

[whttevrr]

82. I think you're preaching to the choir here...

My position on this topic is and will always be that a man has but one option, and that is:

"How can I support your decision?"

I've walked the gauntlet with a girl I really cared about. I only say 'girl' because we were young. We saw the grim reaper with their dangling dolls to represent a fetus, their scowling faces, their nasty posters, and we heard their taunts. And afterwards I held her in my arms all night.

It horrifies me to think about what is happening across this country. Just fucking horrifies me. I don't know how women can handle this constant onslaught of legislation that tries to limit their choices, and succeeds in many places. So yeah... when someone says rare it kind of offends me. Because in many places in this country it is rare because the availability is being limited.

[Vashta Nerada]

47. Oooooh, we gotta worry about what the republicans say about us now.

Please.

Fuck them.

[LadyHawkAZ]

12. OK. Here's a post.

Donation link to the Lilith Fund:
http://lilithfund.org/donate/

Donation link to Fund Abortion Now
https://org2.salsalabs.com/o/6713/donate_page/donate

Donation link to Planned Parenthood:
https://secure.ppaction.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=pp_ppol_Nondirected_OneTimeGift
(You can also call your local office and volunteer)

And NARAL:
http://www.naral.org/

And Emily's List:
https://emilyslist.org/secure/contribute-emilys-list-today-9
or give directly to their pro-choice candidates:
https://emilyslist.org/what/candidates

Calling your local Democratic party office and volunteering for registration drives helps too. GOTV and take a few friends with you.

[whttevrr]

13. Thanks!

Those are great links.

[LadyHawkAZ]

14. ...

Pass it on.

[Starry Messenger]

16. k&r

[Ohio Joe]

20. Correct

The religious nuts never give up trying to force their fantasy view of the world into law... Their insanity must be resisted constantly.

[uppityperson]

22. Becky Bell, 18, died 1988 of a back alley abortion

http://www.now.org/issues/abortion/120904women-who-died.html

Becky Bell
August 24, 1971 - Sept. 16, 1988
At 17, Becky became a victim of an Indiana state law requiring parental consent for a minor to obtain an abortion. Unable to bring herself to disappoint her parents by telling them she was pregnant — or go before a judge to bypass the law — Becky sought an illegal abortion. When she became seriously ill, her parents rushed her to the hospital. In severe pain from a massive infection, Becky still could not tell them, and despite the efforts of the doctors, she died.

[PeaceNikki]

28. So sad. RIP, Becky.

We have parental notification here in WI and I helped a young woman who came to me by taking her somewhere that they don't and holding her hand through it all. This young woman wasn't worried about disappointing them, but they would have forced her to birth. They'd already done so with her sister.

[whttevrr]

30. That is tragic...

I hope we can change the laws that create these kinds of nightmares...

[NuclearDem]

25. Also, it's civil rights for 50% of the damn country.

Some people just cannot get that through their skulls.

[nomorenomore08]

36. Oh yeah, that too...

The way anti-choicers act as if the woman involved doesn't even exist, practically, is quite telling if you ask me.

[whttevrr]

60. 51%

[Jamastiene]

27. K&R

Well said.

[Niceguy1]

31. how long can you beat a dead horse?

this horse is been beaten so much that every pound of flesh is so tender.

we need a new topic to come along

[whttevrr]

32. Depends...

How long should American politicians try to ban abortion?

[PeaceNikki]

35. And 2012 was just as bad

“We’re looking at about 430 abortion restrictions that have been introduced into state legislatures this year, which is pretty much in the same ballpark as 2011,” says Elizabeth Nash of the Guttmacher Institute, a research and policy group that focuses on health and reproductive rights. This year, Nash says, “is shaping up to be quite busy.”

Keep in mind, 2011 was already a watershed year for abortion restrictions: States passed 83 such laws, more than triple the 23 laws passed in 2010. And much of that had to do with the 2010 election, when Republicans gained control of many state legislatures. With the political makeup of state capitols unchanged, lawmakers are continuing to put more limits abortion.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/post/2012-another-record-year-for-abortion-restrictions/2011/12/29/gIQAw5tKxR_blog.html

And the toll they're taking - which will only get worse:
At least 54 abortion providers across 27 states have shut down or ended their abortion services in the past three years, and several more clinics are only still open because judges have temporarily blocked legislation that would make it difficult for them to continue to operate. Nebraska and Massachusetts have each added one clinic since 2010, and the other 21 states and the District of Columbia, most of which have not passed new anti-abortion laws since 2010, were unable to accurately count their clinics because their health departments do not license abortion providers separately from other kinds of medical providers. The Huffington Post's tally did not include hospitals that provide abortions.

"This kind of change is incredibly dramatic," said Elizabeth Nash, state issues manager at the Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive health research organization. "What we've been seeing since 1982 was a slow decline, but this kind of change ... [is] so different from what's happened in the past."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/26/abortion-clinic-closures_n_3804529.html

Many DUers do not understand the crisis situation we are in with regards to abortion rights.

I will not stand down. I will not shut up.

[whttevrr]

44. "I will not stand down. I will not shut up. "

I hope more women realize what Republican legislatures are up to.

...and Vote The Bums Out!

[etherealtruth]

38. Interesting that you liken discussing the assualt on women's rights to....

... "beating a dead horse."

I was wrong ... NOT interesting ... it is disturbing

[Niceguy1]

39. most of the theads have been

Basically progressives attacking each other which is not productive and the debating trivial things like the word rare.

The anti abortion movement is a problem but nost if the threads have not been about that.

[PeaceNikki]

41. The anti-choice movement is able to impose these restrictions because we aren't stopping them.

We need to make abortion rights a priority because we are in crisis mode. It's an important topic for many of us.

[Niceguy1]

46. but co trilling other duers thoughts

When they alrwady vote democratic isn't accomplishing anything....

[PeaceNikki]

48. The core attitude of the soft-support pro-choicers needs to change.

[etherealtruth]

43. the threads have been about the anti choice movements in government

...they have also been about subtler issues ... you refer to the use of the word "rare" as trivial. Had you read the threads with an open mind, may have changed your mind (perhaps not) , but you also may have come to understand why the use of the word "rare" is not trivial at all. The use of that word and others is skillfully inserted in order to "shame" women . It is designed to present abortion as a taboo act

[uppityperson]

40. and yet you are still kind enough to come and kick this thread.

[Niceguy1]

42. I would like to see more threads discussing the legislative

challenges and fewer threads centered on duers trying to contril what other duers think.

[PeaceNikki]

45. Are people motivated to expand/restore access to something they scream should be RARE?

I don't think so. The problem is deeper, urgent and requires that our attitudes change quickly.

[Niceguy1]

55. like duers who think it should

Be rare due to easy access to birth control and the education to use it properly? The seemed to be thw consensus the other day..

[PeaceNikki]

56. maybe, yes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4029686

[uppityperson]

52. Here is one about legislation for you, just like you asked for. You are welcome.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4026613

[whttevrr]

54. Oh... ha ha ha... I see what you did there...

Last edited Thu Nov 14, 2013, 05:25 AM - Edit history (1)

[whttevrr]

53. So you were not trying to control discussion in this thread?

[Niceguy1]

57. I was just stating my opinion

The control award goes to those who say that people should not have an opinion. ..on an opinion message board lol

[whttevrr]

58. Then we are in agreement?

That was the whole reason I posted this. It was a counterpoint to those who did not want abortion discussed... which you then said was a dead horse that I was beating...

I don't know what you were trying to say then, that has changed now, and says what.

[Niceguy1]

61. not your op specifically

I was referring to the side threads off of the big one last week that keep on multiplying...even into a prostate exam thread, lol. And they mostly boil down to one side saying you can't state your opinion and the other doing so. It is interesting but does nothing to advance women's rights.

[historylovr]

59. K & R

We should never forget, and we should never give up.

[TheKentuckian]

62. I don't get the complaints. Regressive energy is expansive, apparently.

[Beausoir]

63. It's just so horrific to have to kill an unborn child. Yet, I support pro-choice.

But it is naive to think that no one is harmed during an abortion. A child is killed.

Still. Every woman needs to be able to have an abortion. A safe and legal abortion.
Pro-choice means supporting a woman and her reproductive health. I am pro-choice. I support a woman's choice to have control over her reproductive health.

Abortion needs to be safe, legal and rare.

[idwiyo]

64. Did you just say that abortion is murder?

[whttevrr]

65. Yeah... he did...

But luckily he is a one post and gone type.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Beausoir&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

[idwiyo]

66. I alerted on it, lets see what jury decides. Next one will be asking Skinner

for clarification. I just want to know once and for all if it's OK to call abortion "murder", and by implication, every woman who had an abortion "a murderer", everyone who support women Right to Chose "supporters of murder".

[whttevrr]

67. Now I have to wait to see what happens...

There should be a tapping smilie for exiting a thread to go do things...

[idwiyo]

69. See below. This is like living in a Twilight Zone.

My question to admins to clarify their position:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12594058

[idwiyo]

68. Well, it's 3-3 to Leave. Because you know, they didn't mean it that way.

[boston bean]

72. What one can spout right wing nutty abortion crap and because

They proclaim they support choice all is well.

This is a joke!

[idwiyo]

73. Yes, exactly what you said:

See for yourself:

At Thu Nov 14, 2013, 03:50 AM you sent an alert on the following post:

It's just so horrific to have to kill an unborn child. Yet, I support pro-choice.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4030493

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS:

Calling abortion "murder" is pure RW talk. This implies by default that every woman who had abortion is a murderer. Every person who support abortion is supporting a murder. Adding afterwards that they 'support pro-choice' sounds like a cover-up to avoid their post being hidden.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Nov 14, 2013, 04:07 AM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: op did not use the word murder. today someone will be killed in a car accident. someone will be killed in war. you are putting your ideas on to one word. would it be better for you if op said a child will die? the next paragraph is not right wing at all.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: This kneejerk bullshit and reading things into posts has gotten way out of hand.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The writer could have used a less inflammatory wording than "A child is killed." Many pro-choice advocates would probably prefer not to think of the embryo having the potential to be a human being. But there is that potential and I do not think that the writer meant any harm. He/she just used poor word choices.

Lets see now if admins will clarify their and official DU position on this topic.

[LeftyMom]

70. Are you fucking kidding me?

You just called 1/3 of all women of reproductive age killers.

Fuck off with that anti-woman bullshit.

[idwiyo]

71. Never mind, jury think it's OK to let it stand, beleive it or not.

I alerted on that decision. I also asked admins for straight forward answer on this sick bullshit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12594058

[DLevine]

74. Right wing bullshit. Disgusting. nt

[boston bean]

78. Here's the thing. This poster doesn't quantify this as his own personal feelings.

He makes a blanket statement, that abortion IS a horrific killing and it's sad that they "have" to happen.

They they couch that statement about an alleged personal belief that they are pro choice, and we should all accept this opinion on DU because he is pro-choice.

I'm sorry but Fred Phelps talking points have no place here as far as I am concerned. Why must women be subjected to this shaming on DU when it comes to making decisions about their own body. This is about womens rights. This would not be acceptable if we were discussing any other human right, especially one that is fully supported in the Democratic Party Platform. It's quite offensive, and I don't care if one more person tries to tell me I am squashing their free speech. Hell they are interfering with my rights as fully autonomous human being.

[DLevine]

80. Agreed.

IMHO, it should not be permitted, not on a Democratic site. If you think abortion is the horrific killing of a child, keep it to yourself, or spout that bullshit somewhere else. With the war on women in high gear, we shouldn't have to hear this on DU. Just my opinion.

[whttevrr]

83. There's a lot of hateful little fucks out there.

But, please remember that there are also many supportive people out there who do want women to have complete and total control of their own bodies. A lot...

[boston bean]

85. I do know that. What is so hard is my continuing participation on a website

that shows so little respect for women on this issue. Telling women who had abortions they killed their unborn child is beyond the pale. And a jury upheld. I guess we will see or not see what admin has to say as a poster above posed a question regarding this in ATA.

[PeaceNikki]

76. Your words are horrific.

[DLevine]

75. K&R. nt

[whttevrr]

86. Another reason to discuss safe, legal and Available? Mexican Misoprostol!

http://tpr.org/post/border-town-women-turn-mexico-abortion-pill

Border Town Women Turn To Mexico For Abortion Pill
Abortion is illegal in Mexico. A pharmacist that didn’t want to be identified says he’s heard of the new anti-abortion laws passed in Texas, but he says that won’t stop what’s become a profitable trade in this Mexican border town.

“They can get [a pill] at any pharmacy because that medication is not a contra medication – we can sell it without a prescription, so, on any pharmacy. [At] $200 dollars, it’s expensive,” he says.

The women come to buy the drug misoprostol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misoprostol

When Cytotec first came on the market, the label listed a contraindication that it not be used on pregnant women. In August 2000, due to increase of "off label" usage, Searle (the manufacturer of Cytotec) distributed a letter warning against the use of misoprostol in pregnant women. In addition to citing the abortifacient nature of the drug, the letter cited reports of uterine rupture and death associated with using misoprostol to induce labor.

This is only going to get worse if sane people do not speak up for women.