What do DU African Americans and other minorities think about this arguing about the "South"?

[coldmountain]

Once again during this Tea party lead government shutdown and massive resistance to the ACA (Obamacare) the American South has come under scrutiny. Many pundits across the media landscape have have singled out the South as the epicenter of this protest against the Presidents leadership and the implementation of Obamacare that lead to a government shutdown. Much of the rhetoric and symbolism around this fight involved the Confederacy with one GOP congressman going so far as to compare the shut down fight with the battle of Gettysburg.

"The congressman began with an anecdote from the Civil War. "I would liken this a little bit to Gettysburg, where a Confederate unit went looking for shoes and stumbled into Union cavalry, and all of a sudden found itself embroiled in battle on a battlefield it didn't intend to be on, and everybody just kept feeding troops into it," the congressman said. "That's basically what's happening now in a political sense. This isn't exactly the fight I think Republicans wanted to have, certainly that the leadership wanted to have, but it's the fight that's here."

http://gawker.com/gop-rep-compares-shutdown-to-gettysburg-republicans-to-1442038231

Later on in the shutdown fight, protestors waved Confederate battle flags in front of the White House.



I would like to know if African American and other minorities think that the Southern region of America should get much of the blame for the shutdown and this extraordinary and unprecedented fight against our President?

BTW, I don't want to hear from whites!

[Tx4obama]

1. I'm a Southerner and I had NOTHING to do with the shutdown. Please stop stereotyping us.

The blame lies on individual REPUBLICANS.

You can't blame an entire 'region' of America.

Do you know that over 3.5 MILLION Texans voted for President Obama?

We have more Democrats here than in many of the blue states.

Please don't discriminate against us because of where we live

[coldmountain]

5. Only 23% of white Texans voted for Obama

Percentage of white votes for Obama by state from Daily Kos

MS 0.1
LA 0.105
AL 0.133
GA 0.145
OK 0.148
UT 0.167
SC 0.197
AR 0.218
WY 0.23
TX 0.234
TN 0.243
AK 0.245
ID 0.277
KS 0.294
NC 0.308
NE 0.31
KY 0.311
AZ 0.314
WV 0.317
SD 0.34
VA 0.344
ND 0.347
MO 0.348
IN 0.361
FL 0.374
NV 0.378
MT 0.38
OH 0.418
NM 0.422
MD 0.426
PA 0.443
CO 0.445
MI 0.448
CA 0.451
DE 0.456
IL 0.458
NJ 0.462
MN 0.48
WI 0.48
WA 0.482
IA 0.492
OR 0.494
NH 0.503
CT 0.518
NY 0.519
HI 0.535
ME 0.548
MA 0.559
RI 0.589
VT 0.664

[Tx4obama]

7. Got a link?

And IF that is true then look at the NORTHERN states that did not have a high number of white voters...

UT 0.167
WY 0.23
ID 0.277
KS 0.294
NE 0.31

---

Btw, your OP says 'THE SOUTH'. The South is NOT all white.
The South is NOT all white men or all republicans.

I think it is disgusting for anyone to try to "blame The South (the whole region)" -- for the bullshit what the REPUBLICANS did.

[cali]

47. that makes no sense at all. take a look where your decimal points are.

ack.

seriously?

[Capt. Obvious]

62. Y u no math

[DireStrike]

64. It's because the chart is incorrectly titled "percentage".

Implying that, for example, 0.34 percent of white SD residents voted for Obama instead of the correct 34%.

[Capt. Obvious]

71. Numbers are hard

[kentauros]

87. It's not that numbers are hard,

it's that some people don't know how to post proper terminology.

While technically 0.11 equals 11% in a formula, in general, everyday verbiage it reads as 0.11%, or 1/100th of the original intended number. As many on DU like to say, "Words have meanings." They also have rules for avoiding unintended confusion.

[Bucky]

157. Are you really unaware of the fact that 0.23 is 23% or are you being intentionally obtuse?

There's a lot of smart arguments to be made against the post you were responding to. You should've tried posting one of them instead.

[Capt. Obvious]

290. There are responses above arguing that

[Rstrstx]

185. Don't know where they got that, 2008 exit poll was 26%

That was the only exit poll for Texas in the last two election cycles. Arizona's number of 31% is off too as the exit polls showed a 39% white vote for Obama in 2012, which was about the same as 2008 (40%). So I have NO idea where their numbers came from

[Common Sense Party]

279. Okay, what percentage of Texas voters are Democrats?

[JDPriestly]

282. Shocking!

[TheDebbieDee]

2. I read an article a couple of weeks that stated that southern churches

keep the flames of racial hatred stoked in that region. I don't know if this is true or not, but it would explain why it seems as though the Civil War ended recently.

But, either way, I don't need a person or group of people or region of people to ADMIT to me that they are racist in order for me to KNOW that they are in fact racist.....

[JI7]

4. the Churches have A LOT to do with it

[SaveAmerica]

203. I think that more than the churches it is the 'news' and lies

that are being fed to southerners by Fox, Limbaugh, etc. . I am a southerner and I thought we were on the path to a good thing in the US after Obama was elected. I knew that there were still racist people but had no idea that the racism was at the level it still is here. His election and the fear-mongering that the right wing has wrought in their people has brought out something I never thought I would ever see. I mean they had to have something to start with, but the RW fed the embers and it has taken off like crazy.

[malaise]

244. My niece and nephew in Texas tell me the same thing

The RWs have fed the embers and fear-mongering is the gasoline fueling the racism, but it is not only in the South.

[Labrat0116]

296. The Civil War never ended!

The Civil War never ended! Only the violent war fighting ended. I'm afraid it may become violent again with all the HATRED the Tea Party is spewing around !

[demosincebirth]

3. Just like the segregatied South, eighty percent of white southerners were for segregation and 20%

were not. I believe it breaks down about the same in this case. Feelings haven't changed, just the law.

[johnlucas]

6. I made my points about this South thing in the following post

In the thread named There's an Ugly Truth about a Faction of our Democratic Party I write a reply called I'm born & raised in the South & I say Southerners need to stop whining.

Southerners MOST of all need to make it shameful for these views to continue take root in their communities.
The only reason why they continue to exist is because not enough of them DIRECTLY call that bullshit out in those bigots' faces.
I'm not talking about being ashamed in secret & staying silent but calling out those racists anywhere anytime anyplace.
Not just in public places but in communities too.

They need to put social pressure on these bigots to stamp out that ignorance.
Financial pressure even. Withdraw business relationships.
Not just individuals but whole families need to do this.
Once bigots feel they don't have any backup they begin to adapt so as not to be ostracized.
At the end of the day human beings are fickle.
There ain't that many who REALLY hold true to their purported views.
When things get unpopular enough & they get tired of feeling like an outsider, they'll change. Lickety split.
So long as they think they have cover in their communities, the behavior won't change.
The power in numbers & all that.

It's why you won't see them spout the same mess in public that they did in the 1960s back.
They talk in code because on the national stage those slurs cause tangible blowback.
Southerners have to be on the front lines to make sure that even CODED bigotry won't be tolerated.
Those cowards hide behind the anonymity of the internet to get their hatred out.
They're weak & just delaying their extinction. They know they're ultimately doomed especially in the outcome of 2008 & 2012.

It's up to the non-racist Southerners to hasten that extinction first & foremost.
I believe they must still feel kinship with these folks & that's why they take it personally when non-Southerners bash The South.
You should be THE FIRST to bash The South so you won't be associated with that backward mentality.
Get over that 'Nobody talks bad about my family but me' impulse & help eradicate the political power of this faction.
This faction that is the core of all of the regressive mentalities polluting public consciousness & policy in this nation.

I'll say the same about Americans in general calling out the wrongness of their nation first & foremost before any other.
I don't cotton to that 'pro-America right or wrong' nonsense either.
Sweep the porch of your own house first.
I even feel this way on a interpersonal level.
When you did wrong be the first to own up to it & atone for it.
And don't grouse & gripe when people call out your fixable faults.
When I'm in the wrong, I gotta have the courage to say "I F'd up" FIRST before anybody else.
Just like the Dixie Chicks did I'll denounce Bush myself FIRST before any other nation.
And Southerners gotta do the same to those racist Confederate nostalgics.

I'm Black & I'll call out the faults of Georgia before others point them out to me.
If you're interested in Truth, this process doesn't bother you.
John Lucas

[Egnever]

23. Your post on the other thread

Was excelent!

This one as well!

[johnlucas]

24. Thank you very much

Gotta tell it like it is.
Can't put the candy coating on this mess.
Especially in light of recent events with this government shutdown madness.

We politically kill the Old South, we prevent another situation like that happening ever again.
John Lucas

[coldmountain]

29. The Dixie Chicks never really recovered, they paid a price for speaking truth to power

Natalie Maines: A Dixie Chick Declares War on Nashville
She took on a president and Nashville cast her off. Ten years later, she's finally ready to move on


In 1986, while George W. Bush was busy finding Jesus and swearing off alcohol, a spunky little blond girl named Natalie Maines was finishing sixth grade in sleepy Lubbock, Texas. At a graduation ceremony, one of her favorite teachers offered a mock prediction: She would be elected president of the United States, then get "kicked out of office for excessive talking." For Maines, who instead grew up to be the Dixie Chicks' lead singer, then the most vilified woman in Dixie, and now, at age 38, a fledgling solo artist, the story proves one thing: "I was born outspoken. It followed me my whole life."

For nearly seven years, though, in the wake of the Chicks' last album, 2006's Taking the Long Way, she was uncharacteristically quiet. Instead of recording new music or touring (outside of scattered Chicks dates), Maines was at home: raising two kids while her husband, former Heroes star Adrian Pasdar, pursued his acting career; gardening in her lush Brentwood backyard; folding laundry while she listened to Howard Stern on the radio. "People have a very romantic idea of what they'd do if they could sing," she says, displaying no apparent exertion as she trots up a nearly vertical section of a hiking trail in the Santa Monica Mountains, a few minutes from home. "But I'm a mom, and it takes a lot of time." She claims, with a laugh, that she put out her rock-dominated solo debut, Mother, largely to get people to stop bugging her to make new music. "I didn't think I had time in my life for this," she says. "I sing all the time. But maybe nobody's hearing it, because I'm singing in my car or in my house or whatever. I don't need the roar of the crowd, and I don't need to hear cheers to feel validated."



Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/natalie-maines-a-dixie-chick-declares-war-on-nashville-20130530#ixzz2i3Ml3f00
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

[johnlucas]

46. They showed eggs (balls), man. Their reward for speaking truth to power is coming

They will recover & because they showed courage in the MIDST of a situation when it counts, they'll get an extra boost when the recovery takes place.

John Lucas

[Are_grits_groceries]

58. Guess what?

I have spent most of my life pushing against the racist haters down here. The other Southerners here on DU probably have done that also.
I have gotten into blistering arguments with many of my relatives and old friends. AND I no longer visit with them. I will not put up with any of their racist bullshit and preaching about 'Christian' values. Maybe you think I should visit every chance I get and rail at them. These are people I grew up with and used to be close to. If you think it has been easy walking this path, think again.

I have no family anymore. I don't want a family with those values but that doesn't make it any easier. I am basically alone except for one or two people who I talk to every now and then. My problems do not come close to that of the minorities who have been devalued for decades. I am not a victim. The minorities are the ones who have had the lion's share of the hate.

I have worked with different people and groups trying to help. Progress has been made. Then after 2008, the loud nasty nutjobs let loose. When nobody in the GOP admonished them for anything, they got crazier and crazier. Nobody quit pushing back and gave up on everything.

I have never made excuses or even hinted at any approval for any of the South's racist past and present shit spewing. I am continually landing on people who start with that crap.

I do know one other fact. There are other people like me who are working in ways to keep cleaning up this toxic spill. I can't undo the South's history. I don't want it ignored either. We have to remember how inhumane people were and are.

However, I WILL NOT fight that damn war all over again. I am over it and point that out to anyone who thinks otherwise. There is a new one with the same background that is dressed up in many guises that I am fighting.

Except for the jackass hard-core RW nutjobs, I rarely talk about it with anybody. But boy howdy, do I hear it on DU. Some people here are obsessed with it. They wish every soldier had been shot or hung. They long for us to secede. I CANNOT do anything about the past and neither can anybody else here. We need to focus on the problems that began in that time and have been carried forward into this time.

You want me to atone? How? I try by giving whatever I can in time and energy to keep moving forward and pulling others with me. What else do you want? Should I go to some Conferderate grave and dig up whoever is buried their and roll their bones up and down streets with a sign saying shame on it? WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM THOSE OF US WHO HAVE BEEN TRYING?

AND I am not going to 'bash the South.' Do you know how counter productive that is? I will take out after anybody who starts with their hate. However, preaching against this entire region hits EVERY single person no matter how many caveats you make. That only serves to make people stop listening. How well do you respond to lectures about the faults of your family when you know what they are and have been trying to correct them?

I AM SENSITIVE ABOUT IT. You know why? Because I read it here every damn day as if nobody knows the problems, facts, and whatever is occurring. WE LIVE HERE. I don't need lectures about what is wrong when I have seen it for years. There is no let up here. It's as if you think those of us who live here forget from one day to the next and have to be reminded. I taught school and
I will always be haunted by what a lot of my students had to go through. If I tried to ignore what is around me, memories of those kids remind me over and over what is at stake.
Every single nerve I have has been rubbed raw by the shite I deal with living here and with the constant harping about THE SOUTH.

I AM THE SOUTH TOO AND SO ARE THOSE KIDS. We have every right to stay here and fight for our own place and more. But nooooo. That's not good enough. Some here want us to just pick up and move. I WILL NOT CEDE ONE INCH TO THOSE RACIST BASTARDS.

Now, I think I have made myself crystal clear.

What we need in the South is support to fight this fight we are in. We do not need to be hit from those we agree with. That help very rarely comes.

So have at me and have at the South. People are going to do it anyway. I should just sit shiva on you as I have with most of the people I knew. Guess what though? You matter to me whether I matter to you or not!

[cordelia]

65. Outstanding post. As always.

[LiberalLoner]

70. + a gazillion.

[kentauros]

83. I truly wish we could rec individual posts!

My intuition says that it still won't get through the thick skulls around here, but we still have to try. It's just too bad they go for the methods of tearing down their allies versus boosting them up. We need all the positive help we can get. Telling us we're part of the problem does no one any good, other than the Rightwing.

Thanks again!

[johnlucas]

99. Here's the thing. We're NOT Bashing YOU

I made the point in this post from the thread There's an Ugly Truth about a Faction of our Democratic Party called I understand it. It's the 'nobody talks bad about my family but me' kind of thing.

Here's an excerpt from it that I believe underlines what you just told me here.

As long as Southerners remain defensive over this criticism, nothing will substantially change in this region.
Maybe when others rail against Southern racist mentalities, they may be talking about your father & your mother, your brothers & your sisters. And it's understandable that you want to protect your family who may still operate under those backwards views.

But the plain simple fact is your father, your mother, your brothers & sisters are WRONG.
And their views are taking the whole country down the WRONG path.
Might be hard to correct family. You might be shunned from the family. Maybe disowned even. It's complicated, I know.
But it must be done if this thing is ever gonna change.

Silent shame & disgust ain't enough. Even occasional chastisement ain't enough.
It's a numbers game & those racist got to learn that they're outnumbered EVEN IN THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES.
EVEN IN THEIR OWN BACKYARD.

Look at what I put in bold there.
I KNEW this is part of what's fueling the hurt feelings of Southerners on Democratic Underground.

I will personally tell you right here & right now, Are_grits_groceries, that I'm proud of you.
I'm THANKFUL for you.
It takes courage to make a break like that & it can get lonely traveling that road.

YOU are the South that we want.
YOU are what the South is supposed to be.

I said somewhere or other one of these posts here or the other thread I mentioned that the South is not a bad place to live outside of that old racist mentality.
I hate cold weather & I'll never move from this region unless apocalypse comes.
My roots are here as well.
But this old guard has got to be purged & we're not gonna be able to do that dancing lightly around the issue.

You are NOT alone, Are_grits_groceries.
You have all these progressive people as your friends.
But because you identify as Southern before Progressive or even Democrat, you take unnecessary offense when people PROPERLY call out the problem.

When people here complain about the Democratic Party getting pulled further & further to the right.
When people wonder why the rich aren't taxed properly leaving the burden on the "middle class".
When people complain about the Military Industrial Complex.
Don't they know that it ALL stems from one source: The South.

It's this political structure we're trying to destroy. That we NEED to destroy if we're gonna get lasting progress in this country.
From the VERY BEGINNING of the country, Southerners have impeded progress.
They have been compromised with & catered to & they STILL act up.
Because the Union didn't finish the job in 1865, this evil contingent was allowed to fester & grow back.

The whole reason for the political parties' existence root on the Black people.
Every time you deal with the Black people, the parties shift, change, rearrange.
We're the people that change the entire political structure of the country & always have been.

Federalist & Anti-Federalist AKA Democratic-Republican basically rooted on non-slaveholding states arguing AGAINST counting Black slaves as population for House of Representatives & slaveholding states arguing FOR counting Black slaves as population for House of Representatives.
The compromise was the 3/5 rule. And as you see it was a little over half to give even more favor to the Southern slaveowners.

The Democratic-Republican Party breakdown in 1824 comes in the aftermath of the 1820 Missouri Compromise which tried to settle the complications of the Black slave/Westward expansion issue due to the 3/5 rule.
That line that was drawn up from the Missouri Compromise said everything below is Slave State, everything above is Free State.
Every time they raided Natives' land going westward the slaveowners wanted each new territory to become a slave state so they would have more representation (and hence more power) in the government.
Those 3/5's add up, don't ya know.
In the aftermath of the breakdown the Southern slaveowners got behind Andrew Jackson in the newly forged Democratic Party while the anti-Jackson faction forged the National Republican Party soon to be known as the Whigs.

The Republican Party of 1854 was the latest attempt to curb the Southern slaveowners' unchecked power in the government after the Whigs broke down in the face of the Mighty South.
By now the South had made BIG stakes in the Manifest Destiny westward expansion campaign.
Big ol' Texas to give so much representation power & now big ol' California not to mention big ol' Arizona Territory & Utah Territory (just straight jacked these lands from the Mexicans!).
All of this below that Missouri line meaning all of those Slave States to pile on the South's already obscene power.
(They were merciful with the free state provisions of the Compromise of 1850 so long as they got the Fugitive Slave Act to help catch those runaway Negroes)

This can't go on so here comes Republican Abraham Lincoln running on a slavery-busting platform & lo and behold wouldn't you know that the Democratic slaveowning South revolted against the country? Whodathunkit?
The Emancipation Proclamation becomes the Emancipation Realization & chattel slavery is finished much less that sick 3/5 rule.
The Republicans in the wake of Lincoln backlash (assassination) usher in Reconstruction making the former slaveowners get nostalgic for the times before the war (the glory days of Antebellum).
Your former Slave is now your State Senator. Now THAT'S Affirmative Action!
Unfortunately, the Republicans didn't finish the job & after 1877 left Blacks in the lurch as they concentrated on big business & big money interests.
State Senator is now Sharecropper. Damn.

Then Northener FDR reforms the Democratic Party in 1932 with the New Deal in the wake of a half-century of Republican business/money excess (it was greatly depressive).
Guess what? FDR includes Blacks in on the action! Wow.
Then he plans on desegregating the Military to let Blacks serve as equals for once (see Red Tails for more info).
Well death makes that a little difficult so his VP succeeds him & finishes the job for 1948.
And inevitably here comes the South shifting away from this New Deal Democratic Coalition.
Strom Thurmond? States' Rights Democratic Party? Dixiecrats?
All because someone wanted to help the Black people huh. It's THAT serious man?

Then Northerner JFK takes it further as he plans to pass the Civil Rights Act to finish off old business that turned State Senators into Sharecroppers.
More including Blacks in on the action! Amazing.
Well death (assassination) makes that a little difficult so his VP succeeds him & finishes the job for 1964.
And inevitably here comes the South not only shifting away from the New Deal Legacy but leaving the Entire Democratic Party ALTOGETHER!
George Wallace? Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever?
All because someone wanted to help the Black people? Priorities man priorities!
The hapless Republicans pick up these bigots in a Southern Strategy to regain footing in the wake of the New Deal Legacy.
Yet another shift in the parties due to the Black folks.

Then in 2008 the ultimate nightmare as Barack Obama, a Black man, becomes President of the United States under the Democratic Party banner.
The ultimate dealing with the Black people.
We're seeing the political structure transform overnight just because of his existence in that office.

You see all that? I broke it down through each era & EVERY SINGLE TIME you're dealing with Blacks, those in the South who want to limit those Blacks (seen as lowly slaves), & those others who want to cancel out that limitation.
That's what the political parties rest on.
That's what the political structure rests on.
This is the root of what drives policy in the entire nation.

So YEAH as you can see it don't get any better until we defeat this enemy of E Pluribus Unum.
If I were you, I would do a lot less identifying with "The South" & start identifying more with JUSTICE.
I'm from the South just as much as you.
I'm probably MORE from the South than you are since I have Native American ancestry that may be Cherokee, may be Creek.
When they "bash the South" they ain't bashing me & I don't take it personal.
I know what they're attacking & I join them in the attack.

This time, if we finish the job, The South will only have positive connotations.
John Lucas

[kentauros]

100. Here's the thing. coldmountain IS bashing us in the South.

Here's the post to prove it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3876637

I bet it gets surreal for minorities to see whites arguing among themselves over who is more racist

Gee, one would think Southern whites were the biggest victims of bigotry from the arguments.

It's pretty obvious though that the Confederate flag waving Southern based Tea party has gotten the attention of the world and there will be blowback against the South. Maybe it's time for Southern Democrats to quit being human shields and apologists for the racists.

Do you see what I highlighted there? In coldmountain's own words, he/she/it is BASHING those of us in the South. It's not criticism; it's bashing. Can't get any clearer than that.

[johnlucas]

101. Brush it off! The mission is the eradication of that evil power that rests within the South

You're not gonna get far worrying about stuff like this.
Your over-identification with the land you live in prevents you from executing Mortal Kombat's 'FINISH HIM!' on this evil structure.
Yeah, I'm putting it in comic book terms. Good vs. Evil. Superman vs. Darkseid. Fantastic Four vs. Doctor Doom.

Do you have the courage to 'FINISH HIM!'? Or are you gonna spend wasted time looking for offense because somebody bashed the region that's politically at the root of all impediments to progress in this nation?
FINISH that sucker!



John Lucas

P.S.: I said FINISH HIM!

[kentauros]

103. First off, using gamer and superhero comicbook examples is weak.

I'm not a gamer and never cared for super-hero comics, am not exposed to MK, or not purposely so, and thus your use of all that is lost on me.

Next, I'm not worried about people like coldmountain. I'm simply attempting to point out that people like him/her/it are part of the problem in making progress in the South. When someone creates post after post and thread after thread declaring their utter hatred and contempt for a region, what do you think that does? It draws off our energy in focusing on working to help turn the South blue, and pisses people off in the process. How is that helpful to anyone but the Rightwing?

And why do I have to keep pointing that out? Why are people like coldmountain so dense? Although I think I can answer that. coldmountain has yet to post anything positive about the South. It's been a solid, 100% negative tirade against anything in, of, or related to the South. And then, we're supposed to shrug that challenge off without comment? Right...

Now then, about this quote:
"the region that's politically at the root of all impediments to progress in this nation"

There is no one region at fault. That is a point we've all been attempting to get across only to have it dismissed by those intent on bashing, denigrating, and generally making no effort to build bridges and help.

You know, I made a thread about getting people to help us turn the South blue. And you know what? Not a single one of the detractors on any of these bash-the-South threads showed up to offer their help. Sounds to me like they truly do want us to fail.

So, what's stopping YOU from helping us out? I already know coldmountain will never offer any help, but you could prove me wrong and help us Turn The South Blue!

[johnlucas]

108. I showed the history in many posts on this thread.

Use the wave-hand smiley all you want.
I know the history.
It's the South. It has always been the South.
There IS one region that fuels all of this.

I'm not going over the whole backstory again. I posted it here many times.
You can check for a more detailed version in my post history.

In 2014 just like I have done in 2012, 2008, 2006, 2004, 2002, 2000, 1998, & 1996 I will do my part in running these Republicans out of power (yeah I skipped 2010 to my great regret. overwhelmed with disappointment at Obama).

What does that do to me when I see posters declaring utter hatred & contempt for a hateful & contemptuous power structure in this region?
It makes me happy, that's what it does.
Happy happy happy to paraphrase a certain duck hunter.

Conflation is messing you up.
You're conflating their hatred & contempt for the power structure IN this region for hatred & contempt for the PEOPLE in this region.
It is YOU who should be leading the way in expressing that contempt for that contemptuous Confederate force that powers the modern-day Republican Party.

The Republican Party used to be the party that freed the slaves after the Civil War then became the party of descendants of the slaveowners after the Civil Rights.
You KNOW who they are & you KNOW why they are what they are.

I'll HELP them so-called "bash the South" because it needs bashing.
It needs to be rebuilt & refurbished. And I am unapologetic in wanting to see this happen.
I have lived in the South all of my life, I got roots going way back here in this land.
When they start "the bashing" it don't bother me one bit.
I know the purpose of the bashing. I know what's being bashed.
It motivates me not demotivates me.

They BUILD the bridge when they "bash".
And once we "bash" the South up good enough, it'll shake out the disease that plagues the South.
Then the South will be in the recovery room healing from its "bashes" & becoming a stronger body in the end.

Before you can turn the South Blue, you need to turn it Black & Blue.
Handwave!

John Lucas

[Aerows]

114. Insulting Southern Democrats and distancing them

from the party is *definitely* the way to get more Democrats elected. Wow, you are a genius. I never thought of the approach of berating people in a broad brush and then lamenting why they didn't vote for my candidate.

Apathy does so much for voter turnout.

[kentauros]

123. No thanks.

...

[cordelia]

181. I'll pass on your very peculiar offer, but thanks just the same.

[Aerows]

113. I've made one or two "Turn the South blue"

and "turn my state blue" posts. We need to encourage each other in these states that it IS possible, and work towards that goal. We need to support Democratic candidates despite how far-fetched it may seem we will succeed.

Yelling at people in the South because we haven't individually, singlehandedly done it all by our selves is ridiculous, and nothing is gained by pissing people off and discouraging them.

If I was a Southern Democrat that was on the fence and wandered into DU seeing all of these posts, I'd think "fuck it. We can't win anyway and the party doesn't even support us".

That's a fact. I'm made of sterner stuff, and I defy anyone to strip my energy - but I do detest those that seek to drain others of their commitment to the party and to getting Democrats elected.

[johnlucas]

122. Tell you what. You work the concilliatory end. I'll work the annihilatory end.

No such thing as a Southern Democrat on the fence.
That ship sailed 40 years ago.
No Southerner who's a modern-day Democrat will have anything politically in common with the modern-day Republican Party.
If they're on the fence after all this, then they can stay on the "gosh darn" fence.
We're bulldozing the fence anyhow so they'll be part of the mulch.

If you want these wackos fueled by the Confederates in the Republican Party to unravel Obamacare or any other even half-progressive plan, then sit & sulk about slights to the South.
I'm beyond that. I know that destroying the Confederate remnants will be good not only for the South but the entire country.
You work on your concilliation. I'll work on the annihilation.

One way or another the job will get done.
John Lucas

[Aerows]

125. Your attitude

is as much a problem as the attitude of those that you seek to "annihilate". Hate has never begotten anything but hate, but working together in friendship and community has accomplished much. You don't become a community by automatically seeking to detest the person you are speaking to by making snap decisions about them based upon skin color or the region the hail from. You don't become a community by automatically making judgments based upon folks religion, or their sexual orientation.

You become a community that respects each other by ... here's a novel idea, respecting each other. Ranting about "annihilating" people isn't going to help you very much with people that aren't extremists of your point of view, and they certainly won't help you influence anyone with the opposite extremists view. On the contrary, you just encourage more polarization.

This is very much a fool's errand for a big tent party of Democrats, because in areas in the South, we need every vote we can get, and it doesn't matter who is casting the (D) vote.

[johnlucas]

134. I don't hate Southerners. I hate the Confederacy which is rooted in The South

There's a difference.
That whole honey vs. vinegar thing. Yeah I know.
Honey ain't worked for 50 years so it's time for the vinegar.

That's just it. Conflation.
You think because I'm dead set on annihilating the Confederacy that I'm dead set on annihilating Southerners.
You're holding too much kinship with the Confederates.
You're not one of them. You're not the target of the annihilation.
Neither is any Southerner who is working for Progress.

But I will do my best to annihilate the Confederate power structure that marries racism & classism together in ways that destroy any positive potential for this nation.
I don't apologize for that & I WILL not apologize for that.
I'm not nostalgic & I don't feel sentimental.
I want to see that legacy dead & buried.

If they haven't been clued in all this time, they AIN'T gonna be clued in.
You may have the patience to humor those diehards. I got better things to do.
Offer the opportunity for them to work for progress.
If they insist on regressing instead, tell them to get ready for the bulldozer 'cause we're tearing down that building.

Dr. Martin talked about the Fierce Urgency of Now.
I ain't got time to wait for them to come around.
They got a brain & they better start using it.
The bulldozer's coming.
John Lucas

[Aerows]

148. You aren't from the South

and a Southern community, are you?

[johnlucas]

189. So Georgia's not the South, is it?

Do the words "The Low Country" ring a bell?
Who's Doug Weathers?
Who's John Rousakis?
Ever been to the Johnny Mercer Theatre?
Who are the Boatwrights? And the Wells? And the Frasiers?
Darien's on Exit 49 on I-95.
Pooler's on Exit 102.
Ellabelle's right there on Ga. Hwy. 204.
Lyman Hall. Button Gwinnett.
Do you know about Montgomery Crossroads? How long do you travel on it before you get to Sandfly?
Ever been to Sweet Melissa's?
What do they sell in the City Market?
Ever been out to Reidsville to pick the peaches?
How many Mexican communities are there down Hwy. 196 on the way to Glennville?
Do you know exactly WHERE that fruitcake shop is in Claxton?

I told you I was born & raised in the South & have lived here all of my life.
John Lucas

[aikoaiko]

200. The 912

[pnwmom]

210. He's said repeatedly that he is. n/t

[Aerows]

153. P.S. There are a lot more of us

that are in a community together that respect honey between us, than take kindly to vinegar directed at us by people that aren't in the community. Were I you, I'd ask if there were any African Americans HERE that respected their white, GLBT, non-religious neighbors and those that were Native American and other than Protestant. I think you would be shocked that our community does, and we want to work together. We don't want shit-stirrers coming in and making things harder.

And we are in the Deep South. I don't care what you have seen on TV, we are different. I have no idea if there are a million communities like us that have had enough, but many in ours have.

Remember that little white town known as New Orleans? I grew up there.

I know my neighbors, one is Cajun, one is Hispanic, and the couple down the street are from Chicago and they are black. Imagining this pure white bullshit that some entertain in the South is detrimental, and lunacy.

Oh, and hey, I'm out and proud.

[Texasgal]

164. Right?

My neighborhood is quite diverse as well. I am wonderful friends with the people next to me ( Hispanic ) The people beside me ( Muslim Family ) The Drag Queens behind me and the three (Black families) down the street that bought their houses together so that they could stay close to their Mother.

People that spend no time here don't get it.

[Aerows]

165. I'll help my neighbors to the polls

to get rid of our representative, and I think many also will, too. He's a teahadist Freshmen that is an idiot. We won't make that mistake again.

This assumption that the South is a bubble of Republican idiocy is foolishness. I am fired up to help take on a contender take the Senate seat and a seat in the House, and help others to do so, too.

[pnwmom]

212. It's foolishness not to recognize that white Southerners

are far more likely to consider themselves tea party members than white people in other regions of the country.

But I don't understand why that makes progressive Southerners defensive. This isn't about them.

[renie408]

192. Oddly enough, the only people I EVER hear talk about the Confederacy are here on the DU.

I live thirty minutes south of Charlotte, NC, I work in SC, I was born in Charleston, SC, lived in Atlanta most of my childhood and this is the furthest north I have ever lived. Where is this GIANT Confederate presence you are ranting about? The only Confederate flags I see are on TV. I see the occasional Confederate sticker on a car.

I promise you don't get much more Southern than I am. My sisters did the debutante ball scene in Charleston. I am a direct descendent of Oliver Hart. On my father's side my family owned slaves and had a plantation, much to my shame. I have lived here my whole life and it HAS changed dramatically in my lifetime. No one blinked at mixed race couples in my son's high school. When I was a kid it was a HUGE deal that I had an African American friend over to spend the night in the 8th grade. They may not be changing fast enough to suit you, but they are changing. And racism and bigotry exist everywhere. This constant harping here on the DU is annoying and offensive and STUPID.

I am not implying that there are no problems here or that the South is some bastion of liberal ideals. Far from it. But for those of us trying to fight the good fight in our 'real' world to have to feel attacked when we come here is wearing, to say the least.

[pnwmom]

209. John Lucas isn't hating PEOPLE. He's hating a political philosophy

that destroys people. There's a huge difference.

[johnlucas]

235. They know this, pnwmom. But they have kinship with the Confederates in the South.

It's a simple case of "nobody talks bad about my family but me".
Very simple. Always was.

It's communities & neighborhoods.
Ain't that easy to just separate yourself from family & friends.
These are the people who they interact with on a day-to-day basis.
Whether or not they hold the same political views, these are the people they have to deal with in their communities.
And if it's a small town this effect is exponentialized.

When I or anyone else attacks the Confederate Southerners in the South, these other Southerners see it as an attack on their family.
Hence all the irrational reactions of offense.
They believe outsiders should not be the one to correct the problem.
Only Family can correct Family.

Let 'em have that view.
I'm not one to coddle that "bull-shoot".
I'm dedicated to the destruction of the Confederate political philosophy that fuels the modern-day Republican Party & that party's influence on national & regional policy.

I want it DEAD.
F'n DEAD.
I'm cold-blooded on this thing & I hold no sentimentality.

Pussy-footing with that crap is why my people had to deal with the Klan & Rosewood & all that strange fruit.
The Union didn't finish the job in the 1800s & we had to suffer.
We didn't finish stamping them out in the 1960s & 1970s & the whole nation had to suffer.
It's time to finish the job.

Fierce Urgency of Now.
FINISH HIM! Flawless Victory. Fatality.

John Lucas

[Uncle Joe]

240. You don't attack political philosophy, you attack "locations;" which is all inclusive of every

every political philosophy under the sun.

From your post #6.

I made my points about this South thing in the following post

In the thread named There's an Ugly Truth about a Faction of our Democratic Party I write a reply called I'm born & raised in the South & I say Southerners need to stop whining.

Southerners MOST of all need to make it shameful for these views to continue take root in their communities.
The only reason why they continue to exist is because not enough of them DIRECTLY call that bullshit out in those bigots' faces.
I'm not talking about being ashamed in secret & staying silent but calling out those racists anywhere anytime anyplace.
Not just in public places but in communities too.

They need to put social pressure on these bigots to stamp out that ignorance.
Financial pressure even. Withdraw business relationships.
Not just individuals but whole families need to do this.
Once bigots feel they don't have any backup they begin to adapt so as not to be ostracized.
At the end of the day human beings are fickle.
There ain't that many who REALLY hold true to their purported views.
When things get unpopular enough & they get tired of feeling like an outsider, they'll change. Lickety split.
So long as they think they have cover in their communities, the behavior won't change.
The power in numbers & all that.

It's why you won't see them spout the same mess in public that they did in the 1960s back.
They talk in code because on the national stage those slurs cause tangible blowback.
Southerners have to be on the front lines to make sure that even CODED bigotry won't be tolerated.
Those cowards hide behind the anonymity of the internet to get their hatred out.
They're weak & just delaying their extinction. They know they're ultimately doomed especially in the outcome of 2008 & 2012.

It's up to the non-racist Southerners to hasten that extinction first & foremost.
I believe they must still feel kinship with these folks & that's why they take it personally when non-Southerners bash The South.
You should be THE FIRST to bash The South so you won't be associated with that backward mentality.
Get over that 'Nobody talks bad about my family but me' impulse & help eradicate the political power of this faction.
This faction that is the core of all of the regressive mentalities polluting public consciousness & policy in this nation.

I'll say the same about Americans in general calling out the wrongness of their nation first & foremost before any other.
I don't cotton to that 'pro-America right or wrong' nonsense either.
Sweep the porch of your own house first.
I even feel this way on a interpersonal level.
When you did wrong be the first to own up to it & atone for it.
And don't grouse & gripe when people call out your fixable faults.
When I'm in the wrong, I gotta have the courage to say "I F'd up" FIRST before anybody else.
Just like the Dixie Chicks did I'll denounce Bush myself FIRST before any other nation.
And Southerners gotta do the same to those racist Confederate nostalgics.

I'm Black & I'll call out the faults of Georgia before others point them out to me.
If you're interested in Truth, this process doesn't bother you.
John Lucas

If anything the Dixie Chicks should be an example of what not to do, if you seriously want to persuade any state, people or the nation to your cause.

Had the Dixie Chicks criticised Bush for his policies, they would've been fine, but they implicitly attacked Texas as well which is home to hundreds of thousands to millions of people that would agree with them in regards to Bush's policies.

The implicit attack against Texas from abroad also rippled as an attack against the South and other parts of the nation, this is why Maines felt compelled to clarify that she was a "proud American."

Furthermore, Bush and the Republicans play the same game as you and some others here of attacking or demonizing "locations" precisely because "divide and conquer" whether it be based on skin color, gender or arbitrary regional lines works to the Republican advantage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_chicks

"Just so you know, we're on the good side with y'all. We do not want this war, this violence, and we're ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas."[40]

(snip)

The comment by Maines angered many country music fans and was financially damaging. Following the uproar and the start of a boycott of Dixie Chicks' music, which, in turn, caused the Chicks' cover of the Stevie Nicks song "Landslide" to fall sharply from No. 10 down to 43 on the Billboard Hot 100 in a single week. It dropped out of the entire chart the following week. Maines attempted to clarify matters on March 12 by saying, "I feel the President is ignoring the opinions of many in the U.S. and alienating the rest of the world."[45]

The statement failed to appease her critics, and Maines issued an apology on March 14: "As a concerned American citizen, I apologize to President Bush because my remark was disrespectful. I feel that whoever holds that office should be treated with the utmost respect. We are currently in Europe and witnessing a huge anti-American sentiment as a result of the perceived rush to war. While war may remain a viable option, as a mother, I just want to see every possible alternative exhausted before children and American soldiers' lives are lost. I love my country. I am a proud American."[46][47]

(snip)

President Bush responded to the controversy in an interview with Tom Brokaw on April 24:

The Dixie Chicks are free to speak their mind. They can say what they want to say ... they shouldn't have their feelings hurt just because some people don't want to buy their records when they speak out ... Freedom is a two-way street ... I don't really care what the Dixie Chicks said. I want to do what I think is right for the American people, and if some singers or Hollywood stars feel like speaking out, that's fine. That's the great thing about America. It stands in stark contrast to Iraq ...[53]

The Democratic Party is stronger when it is united because it represents a broader spectrum of the American People than do the Republicans.

The Republicans thrive on division because their base is narrowly focussed, regionlism aka; racism's twin only serve to aid the Republican Party.

[aikoaiko]

158. If annihilation is what you truly want why aren't you hitting northeasterern and ...

...west coast white Democrats just as hard when racism isn't "annihilated" there.

[pnwmom]

211. Because the South is the regional stronghold of the tea party.

If the tea party membership of the South were no higher than it is in the rest of the country, it would be on the way to extinction. 63% of the tea party caucus in Congress is from the South; the midwest is next highest with only 19%.

However, recognizing that the tea party base is in the South doesn't reflect on Southerners who aren't a part of the tea party. There's no reason for progressives there to get so defensive. We're criticizing the tea party and its place in history. It isn't the only reality in Southern politics -- but it is a poisonous reality that needs to be uprooted.

[coldmountain]

242. The West Coast and Northeast whites voted for Obama 3 to 5 times more

[johnlucas]

264. You go to the root when you wanna bring down the tree. Not the branches.

The Southern Strategy enacted by the Republican Party collected the bigots who once voted loyally for the Democratic Party.
The bigots fled the Democratic Party based on LBJ signing the 1964 Civil Rights Act & 1965 Voting Rights Act into law destroying the Jim Crow system forever.

Once the Republican were successful in this Southern Strategy to get bigoted Southerners into their fold, that bigotry became a MAGNET for bigots of all stripes to join the party.
Gay haters, Muslim haters, Asian haters, Hispanic haters, Jew haters, Union haters, Poor haters, Peace haters.

That's why the current Republican Party has degenerated into a generally hateful mean-spirited party over the past 50 years.
It wasn't always like this for the Republican Party.
They weren't like this in the 1950s & even the first part of the 1960s.
But when faced with what they thought was an irreversible loss of power, they desperately courted the Dixiecrat bigots for support.

You lay with dogs & you're gonna wake up with fleas.
And now the fleas have pretty much sucked the life out of the dog.

To make sure the Northeast & West Coast don't get to wallow in their bigotries we must destroy that MAGNET of bigotry.
It all started with the Black haters from The South.
Take out that root strength governing the Republican Party & weaken that party's ability to magnetize the bigots in other parts of the country.
No more broadcasting this ignorant mess on talk radio & Fox "News".

The Republican Party gives ORGANIZATION to these bigoted views.
Once bigots lose that organization, they will be scattershot & isolated.
We won't stop their personal bigotry. That's not the point.
The point is to stop their personal bigotry from influencing national & regional policy.
As long as they have the political body to organize & disseminate their views, they will have influence on policy.

You make sure this is done when you rip the roots of this evil tree from the ground.
It's the South, aikoaiko. It's the South.
Rip that away from the Republicans & watch the dominoes fall in other parts of the country.
John Lucas

[aikoaiko]

272. Actually if you cut the branches off of most trees, they'll die off.

But my main point is not to quibble over your metaphors and analogies.

Civil Rights, historically speaking, has not been won through annihilation, but by winning the center, the moderate, the reasonable over to our side, and through incrementalism with a few notable jumps in law.

Its just odd to me to see talk about annihilation when racism is tolerated in the northeast and west coast.

[johnlucas]

274. Root's faster

And I see you missed my whole point about the South's bigotry backed by the Republican Party is a MAGNET for bigotry across the nation.
You take away that political organization & you take away Rush Limbaugh & Fox News which decreases that hatred across the nation.

Get to the root & you'll fell that bad bad tree.
Incrementalism??? Did you hear what Martin said?
The Fierce Urgency of Now.
Cut the root.
John Lucas

[Uncle Joe]

276. The South is not a tree, it's a forest, good trees and bad trees, so how are you going to

destroy it?

[pnwmom]

207. That is not what is going on here. What is going on

is that when people like John Lucas correctly point to the South as the regional stronghold of the tea party, the base of operations that is fueling the spread of its political and philosophical ideas across the country; and to the fact that the tea party is just the latest reincarnation of the Southern radical right, some DUers here misinterpret that as an insult directed at them as Southerners.

No one in the South who is not a tea party person -- especially Southerners who actively work against the tea party -- should be taking it personally when people correctly point to the South as the region from which the tea party arose and which still gives it strength. If the tea party membership in the South were as low as it is in every other region in the country, it would be on its way to extinction.

[Hoyt]

256. +3

[pnwmom]

206. I wish you'd put all this in a new OP, John Lucas. Thanks for the post! n/t

[johnlucas]

261. In many posts in my history I have referenced this timeline. Here's one of them

I highlighted this in my Journal but here's the original link.
It's called A long story about The Southern Strategy.

See, I want to know why Spider-Man became Spider-Man.
Where did plain ol' Peter Parker end & the radioactive spider-bitten Peter Parker begin?
Where did that weblined red suit come from? What inspired him to make those web-slinger ducts?
Who wrote his theme song in the 1960s "Spider-Man Spider-Man! Does whatever a spider can!"

I got to know the origins of a phenomenon.
I got to know where it all comes from.
That's how you fully deal with a situation.

When I read my history I find out it goes back to the very beginnings of this country.
I find out that the political parties were formed & continue to change based on how the nation interacts with the Black people.
I find out it's the defining force behind everything else that operates in this nation.
You want marriage equality, check Black people's fight for their equality.
You want to strengthen the labor movement, check Black slaves in the abolition movement.
You want to stop the drug war, check Black people & how certain drugs were criminalized due to fears of those Blacks.

It's very comic book like. The entire machine of this country deals with the Blacks.
It's the source defining problem: A bunch of slaveowners spouting off about liberty.
The oppressors talking about shedding their oppressors.
The embedded hypocrisy that has flavored everything in this nation even today.
This nation was founded on a racist classist origin.

As much as Black people have gone through hell here, we have fought & STILL fight to make this nation live up to its advertising.
We're the conscience of this place.
I laugh at Blacks who try to separate the Gays' plight from their own.
Ain't nothing separate about it. Civil Rights is Civil Rights. Equality is Equality.
We should be on the front lines fighting FOR their rights alongside them.
Trayvon reminded you that we ain't in the club ourselves to be trying to push others out of the club.

There should be no such thing as a Black Conservative. What are we conserving? This old oppression??
EVERY Black by default should be Progressive given the history of this nation.
The descendants of those African slaves should want nothing LESS than Liberty for all.
To be liberal, to be free. FREEDOM is the goal for the un-free slaves.

The enemy of that freedom rests within the Confederacy which thrives on that old hierarchy.
They're still fighting that war.
The Southern Strategy is real & this "Tea Party" mess is just the latest manifestation of that strategy.
Remember how Confederate lovers always talk about the Confederate Battle Flag being about Heritage Not Hate.
Check the name of one of the Republican Party think tanks. The Heritage Foundation.
The group behind this ridiculous government shutdown strategy. Heritage Action.
Yeah, who's heritage?

That heritage has been inherited & passed down for too many generations.
It's time to disinherit that legacy & that philosophy.
And I will not coddle & softshoe those who hold onto that legacy & philosophy.
It's Adapt or Die time. Either they get on board or they get boarded up.
John Lucas

[pnwmom]

262. +1000. nt

[Uncle Joe]

215. You skipped over Plessy vs Ferguson which enshrined Jim Crow Laws as being Constitutional.

No President came from the South during the era that court was nominated and the Republican North dominated the Senate which approved them.

The only Democratic President was Grover Cleveland from New Jersey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plessy_v._Ferguson

Plessy v. Ferguson (1896), is a landmark United States Supreme Court decision in the jurisprudence of the United States, upholding the constitutionality of state laws requiring racial segregation in public facilities under the doctrine of "separate but equal".[1]

The decision was handed down by a vote of 7 to 1 with the majority opinion written by Justice Henry Billings Brown and the dissent written by Justice John Marshall Harlan. "Separate but equal" remained standard doctrine in U.S. law until its repudiation in the 1954 Supreme Court decision Brown v. Board of Education.[2]

Now according to Wikipedia Brown; a Northener was a capable jurist but Plessy vs Ferguson wasn't one of his highlights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Billings_Brown

Brown was born in South Lee, Massachusetts, and grew up in Massachusetts and Connecticut. His was a New England merchant family. Brown entered Yale College at 16, earned a bachelor of arts degree there in 1856. Among his undergraduate classmates were Chauncey Depew, later a U.S. Senator from New York, and David Josiah Brewer, who became Brown's colleague on the Supreme Court. Depew roomed across the hall from Brown for three years in Old North Middle Hall, and remembered "a feminine quality [about Brown] which led to his being called Henrietta, though there never was a more robust, courageous and decided man in meeting the problems of life[.]"[2] After a yearlong tour of Europe, Brown attended a term of legal education at Yale Law School and another at Harvard Law School. Many lawyers at the time did not earn law degrees, and he did not.

(snip)

After lobbying by Brown and by the Michigan congressional delegation, President Benjamin Harrison appointed Brown, a Republican, to the Supreme Court of the United States on 23 December 1890, to a seat vacated by Samuel F. Miller. Brown was unanimously confirmed by the Senate on 29 December 1890, and received his commission the same day. In an autobiographical essay, Brown commented "While I had been much attached to Detroit and its people, there was much to compensate me in my new sphere of activity. If the duties of the new office were not so congenial to my taste as those of district judge, it was a position of far more dignity, was better paid and was infinitely more gratifying to one's ambition."[2]

(snip)

Brown's legacy is diminished by his authorship of the Court's opinion in Plessy. However, "to simply focus on Justice Brown, or dismiss him as a bigot, avoids the greater issue . . . in Plessy, Brown was merely reflecting not only an accepted view of race but also a judicial philosophy that claims dispassion while protecting the entrenched."[9] Brown will always be linked with Plessy, but in the context of his entire life perhaps he should not wholly be defined by one decision—deplorable as it is—out of the thousands of cases he capably handled during three decades on the federal bench.

And the lone dissenter to Plessy vs Ferguson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Marshall_Harlan

John Marshall Harlan (June 1, 1833 – October 14, 1911) was a Kentucky lawyer and politician who served as an associate justice on the Supreme Court. He is most notable as the lone dissenter in the Civil Rights Cases (1883), and Plessy v. Ferguson (1896), which, respectively, struck down as unconstitutional federal anti-discrimination legislation and upheld Southern segregation statutes. These dissents, among others, led to his nickname, "the Great Dissenter."

Harlan was born into a prominent Kentucky slaveholding family whose presence in the region dated back to 1779. Harlan's father was James Harlan, a lawyer and politician; his mother, Elizabeth, née Davenport, was the daughter of a pioneer from Virginia. After attending school in Frankfort, Harlan enrolled at Centre College, where he was a member of Beta Theta Pi and graduated with honors. Though his mother wanted Harlan to become a merchant, James insisted that his son follow him into the legal profession, and Harlan joined his father's law practice in 1852. Yet while James Harlan could have trained his son in the office as was the norm in that era, he sent John to attend law school at Transylvania University in 1853, where George Robertson and Thomas Alexander Marshall were among his instructors.[3]

(snip)

In 1896, the Supreme Court handed down one of the most famous decisions in U.S. history, Plessy v. Ferguson (1896), which established the doctrine of "separate but equal" as it legitimized both Southern and Northern segregation practices. The Court, speaking through Justice Henry B. Brown, held that separation of the races was not inherently unequal, and any inferiority felt by blacks at having to use separate facilities was an illusion: "We consider the underlying fallacy of the plaintiff's argument to consist in the assumption that the enforced separation of the two races stamps the colored race with a badge of inferiority. If this be so, it is not by reason of any-thing found in the act, but solely because the colored race chooses to put that construction upon it."[16] (While the Court held that separate facilities had to be equal, in practice the facilities designated for blacks were invariably inferior.)

(snip)

"The white race deems itself to be the dominant race in this country. And so it is in prestige, in achievements, in education, in wealth and in power. So, I doubt not, it will continue to be for all time if it remains true to its great heritage and holds fast to the principles of constitutional liberty. But in view of the constitution, in the eye of the law, there is in this country no superior, dominant, ruling class of citizens. There is no caste here. Our constitution is color-blind, and neither knows nor tolerates classes among citizens. In respect of civil rights, all citizens are equal before the law. The humblest is the peer of the most powerful. The law regards man as man, and takes no account of his surroundings or of his color when his civil rights as guaranteed by the supreme law of the land are involved.... If evils will result from the commingling of the two races upon public highways established for the benefit of all, they will be infinitely less than those that will surely come from state legislation regulating the enjoyment of civil rights upon the basis of race. We boast of the freedom enjoyed by our people above all other peoples. But it is difficult to reconcile that boast with a state of the law which, practically, puts the brand of servitude and degradation upon a large class of our fellow-citizens, our equals before the law. The thin disguise of 'equal' accommodations for passengers in railroad coaches will not mislead any one, nor atone for the wrong this day done."

"Surroundings" and "color" are the key words surroundings, would apply to your home and of course color to your race, judging someone by the former is no different than judging by the latter.

Regionalism and racism are twins, neither serve any useful purpose except to create division and national destruction.

JFK was greeted and welcomed by a 100,000-150,000 people of all colors in Texas during his last hour.

Furthermore as I posted downthread the South left the Democratic Party for additional reasons aside from civil rights, the War with Vietnam being a primary example something which Southerner Martin Luther King protested against just before his death.

The nation was being torn apart from that conflict, I do believe if MLK had survived, Nixon may not have to power in 1968.

[Aerows]

111. +1000

I couldn't have said it better. Several of the people in this thread are from the South and are compassionate, strong liberals, myself included (and you and many others).

Berating people because we can't change everything immediately, and certainly cannot change the past, is a fruitless endeavor, unless the endeavor is to divide us.

[YoungDemCA]

121. A+++ post

Seriously.

[CitizenLeft]

187. I'm so sorry you feel overwhelmed by hostility towards the South in general

I'm an African-American, a Northerner all my life. While my mother's family originated in New England, they traveled extensively when she was a child because my grandfather, a Methodist minister, moved from one small town to another every 2-3 years. My mother told me horror stories of their treatment in Indiana and Kentucky, in particular - not even the deep South. I and my family have experienced racism here in Ohio, too.

I've only visited southern states a few times, but never felt comfortable on those visits - I always felt like a foreigner, even though no one directly made me feel that way. Here is an example: in 1981, I visited a boyfriend for a weekend, and we went to a movie in the Atlanta suburbs - a nice suburb, actually. The SECOND the credits started to roll, he grabbed my hand and literally dragged me, running, out of that theater. When we got to the car, I asked him, WTF was THAT about? He told me: he was fearful for our safety. I said, are you kidding me? No - he was deadly serious. We high-tailed it out of that parking lot and neighborhood as if we'd stepped into a scene in the Walking Dead. This was a tall, strong athlete, professional NBA player, actually, a minor local celebrity, though he didn't play for the Hawks. And yet, he didn't feel safe in a neighborhood that was right next to his own.

My high school was 98% white. We had "race riots" that were really more personal than race-related, but no one was hurt and it lasted 10 minutes. I was called a n----- getting off the bus a few times, and while a child, 10-15 of us were bussed to an all-white school and hoo-boy, that was an experience. I've witnessed my mother being mistreated in that subtle way you see in the North. But through all of this, I've never felt unsafe, ever. Not in my own state.

What am I trying to say? Not sure. I'm just sorry you had to defend yourself. I have no animosity towards Southerners in general. But I would never choose to live in the South. It's not personal against you, especially when I know there are many Southerners who feel exactly the way you do and try to offset the racism and ignorance. But the idea of living in any state south of Virginia makes me squirm. Please don't take it personally, it's has to do with everything you dislike about living there yourself, that you see and hear and know needs redress. But it's your home, and while it's a different context, I get pretty damned defensive about Ohio and Cleveland bashing - sets my hair on fire. I LOVE where I live, and I get pissed when I hear Cleveland jokes, and "WTF is wrong with Ohio?" posts that pop up here on DU during every election cycle.

BTW, I felt like an alien in Texas, too, and in Tennessee. The one place in the South I felt safe was in New Orleans (1992)... until I wandered on foot into Lafayette park with "tourist" stamped on my forehead. But even then, that was different. I didn't feel as though I might be lynched or dragged behind a car in Lafayette park.

For what it's worth, I'd also never live in Wyoming, Idaho, Utah or Montana. Beautiful states, just as are Georgia, the Carolinas, Tennessee, Kentucky... but why would I want to move somewhere I'm not wanted?

So, I guess I'm just trying to say, I hear ya, and we're simpatico in many ways. And for what it's worth, I've never "bashed the South," I just... don't feel welcome.

[Are_grits_groceries]

193. I can understand and respect your views.

We will never stop trying to change this region.
I want a place where everybody can feel comfortable and respected.

[lunasun]

218. Yes CitizenLeft that is the difference There is racism and disrespect everywhere but unsafe is the

reason that I as an "other" the Op asked to hear from would not go past the Mason Dixon line anytime soon
. I fear trouble where I know I am not wanted by the majority who seem to feel superior yet threatened by non whites and anything could happen .
Somewhat the same with Wyoming or Idaho I agree . Arizona too yet none of these as much as the deep south - Hey I am just telling it like I see it and have felt it down there
All my tourist $$ went to NYC, Las Vegas and California this year . I go modern places to enjoy my self not someplace I have to look over my shoulder in fear and talk is about a 150 yr war and succession

Call this bashing if you want + I wish it would change but it doesn't seem safe to me . I know whites do not get it because they are all nice and polite to each other and think New Yorkers or people from Vegas are the ones who do not have proper manners,
But sorry smiling faces don't make it
especially with a history of violence and racial division
and a lot of the faces really were not even smiling and those visits south were all preteaparty. The hate is too overt and ramped up now
why would I want to move/visit somewhere I'm not wanted? exactly!
nothing against those who live there

[CitizenLeft]

246. yes... and this reply is for Are_Grits_Groceries too...

I have a group of friends who I rented a cabin with... crap, it's been 10 years now. But I'm the only woman of color in this group, and it's not an issue in any way and has never been. But we rented this wonderful cabin in Tennessee, near Pigeon Forge, and had a wonderful time. But our 3 Southern friends - one from Kentucky, Tennessee and North Carolina - felt it necessary to apologize for the behavior and appearance (Confederate flag apparel and/or gear) of our Southern hosts walking about when we went into town (I think you would've done this too, AGG). It definitely had a different feel, like being abroad, at least it did for me, and - I think I can speak for her on this - my fellow Ohioan who I drove down there with. I'm aware of the opinion of defenders of the Confederate flag - that they're patriots, etc. etc. Well, no... that flag is a symbol that I - me personally - and my family, and my loved ones, should be enslaved. That's what that flag means to me. And when you wave it in my face - or wear it proudly on your body - you're telling me EXACTLY how you feel and EXACTLY what you want me to think and EXACTLY what you are.

There's no way around that.

[johnlucas]

267. The Confederate flag is not only what you feel about it, that's what it IS

It is not JUST a feeling that the Confederate flag stands for the subjugation & enslavement of Blacks, it is EXPRESSLY EXPLICITLY A FACT that the Confederate flag stands for this.

They can't wash that away. They can't rewrite history.
The flag means exactly that. When Lincoln an abolitionist won the Presidency, the slaveholding states broke from the nation IMMEDIATELY. They knew what he was going to do & they protested in the worst way possible.

The entire 1860s Confederacy stands for our people's debasement, our people's subjugation, our people's disenfranchisement, our people's imprisonment, our people's slavery.

It's heritage all right. A heritage of evil. A heritage of hate.

The Confederate flag is a traitor's flag. Nothing patriotic about it.
These Sons & Daughters of the Confederacy & their sickening Civil War reenactments...
...trying to relive the bad ol' days. Endlessly.
That's that sickness of the Confederate mindset of The South.

Occasionally I see a Black men wear T-shirts from Dixie Outfitters (confederate flag in the logo) & I'm like what's with these Negroes?
Another Byron Thomas in the mix??? Suckas don't know their doggone history!



It ain't just what you feel, CitizenLeft...
...It's what it IS.
John Lucas

[renie408]

194. Sing it, sister.

What a great post!

The thing is, it IS changing. Maybe not fast enough, but it is happening. And racism is everywhere. The people who are pointing fingers at the South are kidding themselves if they think that this problem doesn't exist where they live.

[SaveAmerica]

205. Girl, that was beautiful. We seem to meet back at the same posts, sadly.

I don't know what else to say except to tell you you are not alone in your thoughts. I only wish that I live closer to you and we could work through these attitudes together (because I am you, just across the mountains in NC). You're not alone, there are plenty of Dems and Progressives throughout the south (no matter what kind of flack our states get). Seek some out if you haven't already, there's power in numbers and I think we are watching the end of these hate groups before they can do any true damage.

Peace, Grits, peace...

[nolabear]

222. Brilliant. Thank you for saying what I've been grasping for.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

224. This is incredibly powerful!! Nearly made me cry. Thank you so much for sharing!!

[pitbullgirl1965]

228. Excellent post.

n/t

[Chief D]

81. Thanks johnlucas

I too endured living and surviving Georgia (in the 60s, and 70s). Left there in the 80s and only return to visit family. So many things haven't changed. Fresh coat of paint, new highways over dirt roads, new buildings, but IT's still there lurking just below the surface, just below the conscious. Thanks for sharing.

[johnlucas]

104. You're welcome Chief D

You're exactly right.
Fresh coat of paint sums it up just right.

There's a difference in how Black Southerners view this place & White Southerners view it.
I don't doubt the positive efforts the majority of the White Southerners here did in trying to change the old South.
I commend them for it & I'm thankful.
But I don't hold these ties like the White Southerners do.

I'm ABSOLUTELY in favor of changing this structure BECAUSE it has NEVER been good for my people here.
I don't hold any nostalgia or sentimentality to this place.
I want a TRULY new South & a TRULY new Southern culture.
Not this fake new South with its genteel storefront still hiding the Klan sheets behind the curtains.

Do you know how many older White folks try talking to me & I can just feel that bigotry hidden underneath?
It's like they're trying to get along with "the Blacks" in this new age & you'll hear them randomly offer words about that "nice black lady" over there or "nice black man" over here.
We were talking about rising food prices. Where did all this talk about random black folks come from? Why are you pointing out so specifically about this black person here & this black person there?
You can tell they're ultimately uncomfortable with Black people with their tight lipped smiles.
How many times did I have to bite my tongue at work listening to older White folks try to tell me that the Civil War was not about slavery & that the Confederate Flag was just as bad as the American Flag?
How they would bring these topics up out of the blue no matter what the conversation was about?

I don't want that phony genteel Paula Deen crap.
I want a TRULY new South.
Unlike with White Southerners, there's no family/community/social ties for me here.
I'm an Afro-Futurist on this thing (thanks Wikipedia!).
I'm about making a brand new culture in place of what was once here.
The past is depressing for my people in this place so we only have the future to look forward to.
Things can only go up from here, right?

Time to make a new South.
Bash up the old one & refurbish it into something TRULY great.
John Lucas

[Chief D]

112. Empathy, truly misunderstood by most

Agreed...in the mental health field, the term Empathy emphasize that true empathy is, seeing with someone Else's eyes, hearing with someone Else's ears and feeling with someone Else's heart. It's more than just walking in someone Else's shoes. Many cannot truly "empathize" with what we went through in the South and other continue to endure. Most of what i see is sympathy instead. Having only sympathy for a cause is dangerous because it's very superficial and when many feel that they've done just enough because they sympathize with a cause, they move on to other endeavors or causes. This also applies to LBGT issues, women issues, the poor, the homeless and the list goes on. While those left in whatever dynamic are left to wonder, where are those who truly understand their plight.

[johnlucas]

126. Excellent point you make, Chief D

Sympathy vs. Empathy.
I believe empathy is a weak trait in human beings by default anyway.
People only look through their own senses & experiences.
It's understandable. That's all you have to understand the world.

It takes lots of practice to become empathetic.

But I don't sit here waiting for those who aren't Black to empathize with our experiences.
I'll be waiting forever if I do that (every Black learns this sooner or later).
I just say they can't understand & get on with the mission.
I got no time for feeling salty.
I have to do to the evil Confederate beast what they do in Mortal Kombat & FINISH HIM!



John Lucas

[SaveAmerica]

208. "Still feel kinship with these folks"?...You need to say you "F'd up" because

of this stupid, ignorant pile of garbage post. I have worked side by side with people of all races to turn my county, district, and state around in NC MOSTLY because of my desire to make sure hate was stamped out, disparaging treatment between races was turned around, and that the military in our district had representatives who were treating them as they should be treated.

You have no idea what I've done to call out and put down the racist voices in my neck of the woods. And, until you are familiar with what every single southerner has done for his or her state, I suggest you don't paint everyone with your crazy ass paintbrush. And take a page from my book; I don't judge all southern people based on the actions and words of some, and you shouldn't either.

You know what? Your words have made me recall just how proud I am of the work I've done with my friends here. We don't play, we take charge and get things done, we don't allow hateful words and actions from anyone where we are.

Kinship with racists? That you would even suggest such a thing...

[johnlucas]

259. Yeah, kinship with fellow Southerners many of whom are racist

You see yourself as a Southerner first & foremost which is why you & others like you have been grousing all over this thread.
A thread which asked for the opinions of non-Whites like me nonetheless.

It's kinship because of community. These are your family members, friends, neighbors, the people who you shop with, the people who you do business with.
It's very hard to absolutely separate yourself from the members of your community in every sense.
While you may see their views as wrong, this is still your community.
These are the people you have to deal with on a daily basis.
There's relationships here to be considered & it's hard to get things done if you're absolutely ostracized.

Same thing with brothers & sisters who fight & feud with each other but will stand together to keep a non-family member from fighting & feuding with that brother or sister.
The brother & sister may have beef but they gotta deal with each other on a regular basis.
They come from the same mother & father. They have family get-togethers.
They won't let no outsider do damage to their blood no matter how much they can't stand their blood.

It's the same thing as what happens in this clip between Goku, the Saiyan hero of Dragon Ball Z, & Vegeta, his archrival & the Prince of the nearly extinct Saiyan race.
Goku & Vegeta once had a fight to the death & Vegeta still harbors revenge for losing that fight & being spared by Kakarrot—Goku's original Saiyan name.
Vegeta still wants to kill Goku but these outsider killer Androids threaten to kill Goku before Vegeta gets his chance.
What does Vegeta do?
He fights off the killer Android & says "Nobody kills Kakarrot while I'M around. Destiny has reserved that pleasure for me."

When you witness attacks on the Southerners who give the South its bad reputation, you step in protecting your family even if you're NOT one of those types of Southerners.
That's EXACTLY what's going on.
Before you are a Progressive, before you are a Democrat even, you are a Southerner, & you will defend the South's honor no matter who attacks it.
Even if you don't agree with things being done in that South, you protect it because it's your family, it's your society, it's your community.

You know we're not attacking Southerners like you but Family First before everything else.
Kinship.
John Lucas

[SaveAmerica]

265. I've already established that you don't know me NOT ONE BIT!

So stop assuming you do. None of your comments are worth responding to except to say; YOU ARE WRONG. In every way.

Never fear, Mr. Lucas. I see right through you and can determine that you, more than anything I have or haven't done, have done more harm to anything helpful in the Democratic cause. Thankfully you are in the minority.

[johnlucas]

266. Those who see themselves as Southerners above all respond with anger

All this grousing is unnecessary.
You all wouldn't pipe up with all this outrage if I wasn't hitting the nail on the head.

Why would people RIGHTFULLY railing against the "Conservative" Confederates in the South make a Southern Progressive angry & defensive?

Makes no sense UNLESS kinship's involved.

"YOU DON'T ATTACK MY SOUTH! YOU DON'T ATTACK MY SOUTH!"

That's all I'm hearing out of this outrage.

The topic asked for Black folks' opinions & opinions of other non-White populations on their perspective on the South situation.
Yet this thread is dominated by a host of White Southerners up in arms protesting for no reason.
What reason do they have to protest for? This ain't about them. They ain't the Confederates.

Seemingly it doesn't matter if we make clear the distinction between EVERY Southerner & the general Confederate nostalgic mindset that's heavy in the Southern region.
No, all the Southerners come up here in outrage derailing the conversation talking about their hurt feelings.

Save it.
The South will continue to be attacked because it's a problem.
And no amount of hurt feelings is gonna stop me or anybody else from solving this long overdue problem.

Their ignorance almost caused us to go into default.
Our money system would have gone haywire.
People got messed up in this shutdown.
And it will not be the last time. They're not done by a long shot.
The Confederate-powered Republican Party will continue to obstruct & cause general havoc for as long as Obama is President.
The next step is a phony game of impeachment.

I'm not gonna let them do this unchallenged so I will call them out plain for what they are.
No candy coating. No sugary filling.
Can't solve the problem if you don't identify it.

We're in the majority not the minority & whether your feelings are hurt or not, we're killing the Republican Party & the Confederate system that powers it.
You can help out if you want.
John Lucas

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

223. Excellent, indeed! I'm black. From Georgia. I can't absolve my black brothers and sisters who won't

get involved in the process. More of them need to vote. They don't. I know they feel powerless, but that's no excuse. Georgia has had many opportunities to turn blue for Obama had more blacks simply turned out. (It did once under Clinton.) We need to do better. Can't place all the blame on Rethugs until we get our shit together and get involved. It's getting better, but we have to participate in local, state and especially midterm elections.

[JDPriestly]

284. Thanks. It's about daring to change your culture. It can be done.

[Tx4obama]

8. Your OP says: "BTW, I don't want to hear from whites!"

Well, this is a discussion board and the General Discussion forum is open to ALL DUers to state their opinions.

And if someone is going to bash us Southern Democrats then I am going to speak up.

[Eleanors38]

10. The peculiar institution of segregation crops up right here.

[texanwitch]

11. Not everyone who votes republican in Texas, is a native born Texan.

Lot of out of state republicans move here and bring their votes.

Texas was blue at one time.

Bill Hobby a was Lt. Governor for 18 years.

Not republicans are white either.

I found this whole southern hating sad.

There are republicans in all states, that is why the congress is full of them.

I have never voted republican, I am a yellow dog democrat.

I guess some people just need to hate.

Democrats need to stick together not fight.

This subject gets really old.

It started with Bush, and I hoped it would go away.

Bush was a yankee and we still get blamed for him.

[JDPriestly]

12. I'm white. I lived in the South. I hated it. Jim Crow was an abomination for everyone who lived

there. It intimidated everyone, no exceptions.

I have no respect of Southerners who don't do everything possible to correct the stupidity of their political leaders on the right. Granted there are nice Southerners, but the culture represses criticism, punishes intelligence and promotes stupidity. Those strong enough to rise above that culture are or at least were so exceptional that we don't (didn't) even notice them. They did not make themselves heard.

I hear things have changed, but when I see the Republicans the South elects into Congress, I do not believe it. There are crazy Yankee Republicans, but the Southerners are so self-satisfied about their backwardness.

[Tx4obama]

14. So your answer to the OP question regarding blaming us Southerners for the shutdown is ?

OPer's question:

"I would like to know if African American and other minorities think that the Southern region of America should get much of the blame for the shutdown and this extraordinary and unprecedented fight against our President?"

I believe the BLAME falls on all the REPUBLICANS in The HOUSE from ALL OVER the USA - not solely on The South.

[JDPriestly]

17. I agree with you. All Republicans in the House are to blame. But the South so solidly sends

huge numbers of Republicans. Based on my experience there, it has to do with deep cultural problems. I found that whites amongst themselves were very snobbish and often mean. I know that is an overgeneralization. There are and were exceptions. But the exceptional people, thanks to the very conservative culture, had great difficulty organizing themselves to speak out.

I wonder how Southerns would respond if Martin Luther King were alive today and speaking to the very conservative Tea Baggers in the South.

Northern conservatives can and probably will get voted out of office. But the Southerners just keep holding on and coming back. Bad pennies, keep coming back to Congress.

I think I stepped on a lot of toes, and I know that the problems in Congress are not entirely due to Southern representatives, but knowing what I know about the South, I just don't think we will get anything better from that area of the country. It's sad, really sad. But it's the culture.

[Sissyk]

80. You haven't lived in the south since the 50's!

1950's. Do you know how long ago that was?

Also, do you live close to one of the over 80 hate groups that California has? If so, do you do all you can to see they are shut down?

[Texasgal]

144. what a pantload.

You just admitted up thread that you haven't lived in the South for years. Just how would you know anything about the "culture" here?

You have a very narrow opinion my friend. If you are simply basing your opinions on elections than surely you have turned your head to some northern areas as well.

[Aerows]

172. +1

We've had some pantloads from the North, too. Dividing us up by region and blaming each other solves nothing, though. This isn't directed at you, Texasgal. This isn't directed at JDPriestly. This is directed at shit-stirrers among us that would like to see nothing more than a Democratic party as fragmented as the Republican one currently is.

Of course they are going to throw a sudden fit. Democrats kicked their asses, and they fear their asses getting kicked completely out of relevancy, as well they should be, so they try to play on North/South arguments.

Good luck. Over play your hand, and over playing your hand doesn't work the second or third time around!

[cordelia]

178. + another 1

[johnlucas]

27. Nobody's bashing Southern Democrats. They're bashing the racist South

If you're not a part of the racist South, you have nothing to protest.
Don't put yourself in solidarity with that ignorance.
That 'I love the South right or wrong' mentality is the EXACT same thing Democratic Underground spoke against with Americans holding that 'Love America right or wrong' during the Walker Bush fiasco.

I'm an American & I'll denounce what my country does when it does wrong.
I'll criticize my country when it does wrong.
If I'm interested in any real justice I have to.
I can't sit up here being indignant because someone outside the U.S. RIGHTFULLY dares to call the United States out on its crap.
This ain't Kim Wayans from In Living Color talking about "Don't nobody betta say nothin' bad 'bout Miss Jenkins!"

Quit taking it personally & help us eradicate the problem.
I'm from the South & I'll be the first to call out what's wrong with this place.
If I want it to get better, I have to.

John Lucas

[Tx4obama]

28. Yes, the OP does bash us Southern Democrats that live in the SOUTH

Did you even read the OP where it says...

I would like to know if African American and other minorities think that the Southern region of America should get much of the blame for the shutdown and this extraordinary and unprecedented fight against our President?

[johnlucas]

40. What's the name of that place where the Confederate Battle Flag comes from?

You know this flag.



What region of the country did that come from?

Wait wait hold on.
What's the name of that place where that flag sits atop the South Carolina capitol building?



What region of the country is South Carolina in?

Wowowo...hold on.
What flag did you see outside the White House during Sarah Palin's & Ted Cruz's recent rabble-rousing campaign?



What region of the country is that flag from?
What was that flag about?
Which people did it symbolize the oppression of?
Is the main occupant of that White House one of those people?
Do you think there's a connection between what that flag stands for & the current rebellion of a political party that houses those who hold that flag so dear?

YEAH. IT'S THE SOUTH, Tx4Obama.
IT'S THE SOUTH.

YEAH. The Southern region of the United States of America is the headquarters, the home base for all this political structure that hampers Progress in this nation.
HAS hampered progress in this nation from the Very Beginning.
They don't unite. They are confederate. They were confederate before the Constitution was made!
They were confederate since 1776.

That's why the country had to do all those compromises.
And eventually why those compromises were never enough.
Why the union eventually had to overrun those belligerent confederates time & time again.
The Confederates don't believe in the UNITED part of the United States of America.

I spell it out for you in this post here called I'm born & raised in the South & I say Southerners need to stop whining.

FDR had the support of the virtually the ENTIRE NATION during his 4 terms INCLUDING the South because of his New Deal.

What screwed up the progress of the Second Bill of Rights FROM that New Deal?
The South which got mad that FDR's follower Harry Truman was going to follow through & desegregate the Military.
They were going to help the Blacks & all of sudden these jackasses wanna vote for racist Strom Thurmond in 1948.
Everybody benefited from the New Deal but as soon as you help the Negroes here's comes the South F'ing things up for everybody.

You look at the electoral maps in these links. You tell me why 1948 was so different from the previous results & why it was those same Southern states of Confederacy revolting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1932
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1936
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1940
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1944

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1948

JFK was going to follow in the footsteps of FDR & bring more progress in the vein of the New Deal legacy.
What screwed up that progress?
The South which got so mad at JFK for proposing the Civil Rights Act to help Blacks have their rights recognized that they killed him (killed in the SOUTHERN state of Texas).
The South which got so mad at his follower LBJ for following through & passing that act that they left the Democratic Party in exodus.

Look at this aftermath of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. What region are the states who voted against LBJ in this picture?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1964

And ever since this exodus they have been working through the Republican Party to get back at the Blacks & anybody else they equate with the Blacks to arrest, halt, & reverse any progress that makes life better for all American citizens.

It's THE SOUTH, Tx4Obama & you KNOW this.

They are actually standing in the way of universal health care for all citizens!!!
This is in the spirit of the New Deal, of the Great Society, which gave us Social Security & Medicare.
This is what FDR, the reformer of the Democratic Party, the reason why we all are here in support of the Democratic Party, stood for in his time in office.
He's the guy the South got behind. The whole country was behind FDR.
Why is the South so against his legacy now?
Why are they willing to starve just as long as they can see a Negro starve?

They won't unite, Tx4Obama.
So they must step aside. They must go dinosaur. They need to 'get out of the way' as Joe Biden said last year to that little punk at the VP debates.

Instead of spending your time sore at others railing RIGHTFULLY against this backwards ass region, help turn this place forward.
Don't take it personal. The region is sick & needs to be healed.
When this confederate, traitorous, regressive, backwards, crack-brained mentality is PURGED from this region, then you won't see anybody go off on the South anymore.

In my state of Georgia, I'm sick of seeing Jack Kingston, Saxby Chambliss, & Nathan Deal heading up the government.
I hate that old Confederate mentality that fuels the Republican Party around here.
So I call that crap out. Georgia IS backwards.
I don't cry about others putting Georgia down because it NEEDS to be put down.
Once it improves I won't need to put it down anymore.

I simply don't believe in 'my homeland right or wrong'.
John Lucas

[Tx4obama]

41. The WHOLE SOUTHERN REGION of The USA can NOT be blamed for the GOP HOUSE shutdown

... and ONE guy with a flag at The White House is ONE GUY - not the WHOLE SOUTHERN REGION.

The OP even questioning that The REGION of the SOUTH should be blamed for the shutdown is RIDICULOUS.

We Southerners are INDIVIDUALS and MILLIONS of us are DEMOCRATS and we are NOT responsible for what the Republican NUTS do.

[Behind the Aegis]

42. Of course that flag was removed in 2000.

But, we don't want to interrupt the hate-fest.

[johnlucas]

45. Oh the Confederate Flag ain't gone in my state of Georgia.

Look at this, the current state of Georgia flag.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_%28U.S._state%29



Now look at the original full-membered Confederate flag of November 1861.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America



Most people think it's all gravy now that the big Rebel X got taken down.
They ain't fooling me. The Confederacy still lives in these states & that's my sign.
The Georgia flag is STILL the Confederate flag.

Excerpt from the Wikipedia link about the Georgia flag above.

The flag's design is based on the First National Flag of the Confederate States of America, which is nicknamed the "Stars and Bars".

From the design alone you can see that the Confederates believed they were the REAL Americans.
It looks almost identical to the well known U.S. flag design even down to the original circle of 13 stars.
After the South's defeat you see the battle flag flown in protest.
They're still fighting. They're still in rebellion.
Pragmatically in some places they may go underground, they may hide it with a lesser known flag of the Confederacy, but that same spirit still lives on in the South.
They STILL think they are the REAL Americans & I ain't talking about Hulk Hogan.

John Lucas
Here's Mississippi for you by the way.

[Behind the Aegis]

50. And yet...the picture you used is almost 14 years old.

Funny that. Well, not really.

[johnlucas]

51. Did you just read the headline & comment or did you read the message along with it?

The current Georgia flag is a Confederate flag.
Doesn't matter if it ain't the Battle flag.
It's still a Confederate flag.

So saying 14 years old as if implying that this is the New non-racist South is fruitless.
Besides the flag is only 10 years old. Not 14.
It was adopted in 2003.
I live here. I remember that big blue flag with all the other little Confederate flags at the bottom.

That's why I put those Wikipedia links right before the picture so everybody can read the history for themselves.

The South is the Heart of this Beast.
Wanna politically kill that beast? Gotta kill that heart.
John Lucas

[Behind the Aegis]

52. Your original post was 14 years old.

Keep up.

If you think the South is the heart of the beast and not racism, that is your issue, not mine.

[johnlucas]

55. What's 14 years old? What are you talking about?

First you say my picture. Now you say my post?
This site wasn't even here 14 years ago.
I have no idea what you mean by this 14 years old stuff.

Racism is my point & the South politically is the heart of this racism beast.
They keep this bigotry politically vibrant enough to influence national policy.
Yeah, the South. The heart of the beast.

Read the shorthand history right here.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3869010
It goes back to the very beginning of the country.

When the Constitution was first put together to end the 1st Confederacy, these Southern slaveowners would buck against the Union even then in those 1780s.
They had to make compromises like the 3/5 rule to appease them.
Later it was the Missouri Compromise of 1820 & then the Compromise of 1850.
Not enough so when they didn't get their way they tore the country apart in the 1860s with a 2nd Confederacy.
After that ass-whoopin' they have been trying to stick it to the Union ever since.
This "Tea Party" shutdown is just one of the many symptoms of this ancient cleave.

It's The South, man. Can't really get around that. The Elephant's too big (pink too).
John Lucas

[Behind the Aegis]

56. Really?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3876761

14 years old!

If you think the South is the problem, that's your issue, as I have already said, it is racism, not a region.

Pink? Sly, but not very clever. Fascinating though.

[johnlucas]

93. Oh I figured out what you're talking about. South Carolina.

You're talking about those South Carolina pictures. Hahahahaha.

Well...here you go.
The stories come from 2011.

South Carolina Governor Rejects NAACP Push To Remove Confederate Flag
Gingrich Defends South Carolina's Decision To Fly Confederate Flag At Capital




That should make it a little more up-to-date for your satisfaction. 2011.
Confederate Battle Flag's still there at the state capital.
You were saying...

John Lucas

[Aerows]

127. Yeah, the pink

was interesting. Freudian, metaphorical or intentional?

[johnlucas]

43. Yes, they can. The South is the base of operations for all that madness

The Republican Party would have went out of business if it wasn't for the racist South in the 1960s & 1970s.
That racist South also gave you that Moral Majority bull where Jerry Falwell, Pat Roberson, Bob Jones & the rest of those freaks come from.
Remember the religions that were practiced in the South now.

As the Republican Party grasped on to those bigots to remain in power, the party became a magnet for bigots of every stripe, from every region.
The Ebenezer Scrooge greed of the core Republican business class mixed in with all-purpose bigotry of the South & like-minded associates turned the Republican Party into a general party of meanness.
War-mongering, social safety net-cutting, rights-denying, money-hoarding mean asses.

The Scrooges will always be few in number so they need the bigots for political manpower.
And the core of those bigots rests within the South.
Once you break the South, that bigotry magnet stops pulling & the entire political structure of the Republican Party collapses into Whigdom.
Personally the bigots can have their wrong-headed views but politically they would never be able to enforce that lunacy on the public ever again.

Once you kill the Republican Party on the national level eventually the regional levels will fall.
So you're in the right place for this to happen.
Once Texas goes reliably Democratic nationally, the national Republican Party will start playing taps.
A few more national Democratic Presidential wins each with 8 year runs & the national side can never come back leaving the regional variants leaderless.
Eventually without strong leaders the regional Republican Parties will collapse.
They will be politically in the wilderness & eventually the tide of numbers against them force them to change or go out in a blaze of glory.

It ALL rests with politically killing the Confederate South.
Then the dominoes will begin to tumble.
John Lucas

[Uncle Joe]

202. Take another look at the flag pic in the OP, there are at least three U.S. Flags to one Confederate

Flag, should we be trashing the United States?

There is also a fourth Stars and Stripes Flag in the pic as well over the White House should we be trashing President Obama for having the same flag flown as the Tea Hadists?

Not to mention the same looney toon holding the Confederate Flag is flying a Marine Corps Flag I guess we better trash the Marines as hating Obama or being against the Democrats as well.





Furthermore the South didn't kill JFK, they turned out in record numbers to applaud, cheer, welcome and support him during his final hour.

Either Oswald killed JFK or as many believe there was a conspiracy, but it damned sure wasn't "the South."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFK_assasination

On November 22, after a breakfast speech in Fort Worth, where President Kennedy had stayed overnight after arriving from San Antonio, Houston and Washington, D.C. the previous day,[14] the president boarded Air Force One, which departed at 11:10 and arrived at Love Field 15 minutes later. At about 11:40, the presidential motorcade left Love Field for the trip through Dallas, which was running on a schedule about 10 minutes longer than the planned 45 minutes, due to enthusiastic crowds estimated at 150,000–200,000 persons, and two unplanned stops directed by the president.[15] By the time the motorcade reached Dealey Plaza they were only 5 minutes away from their planned destination.

Having said that you must believe in the biggest conspiracy of all time, not only that 150,000-200,000 people in Texas viewing the motorcade were behind the assassination of JFK but to include all Southerners watching it on T.V. people at work, sleeping, eating, using the bathroom, doing pretty much anything as long as they were Southern makes them culprits which kicks up the assassins to tens of millions.

After 1964 there were many dynamics going on to dampen Southern enthusiasm for the Democratic Party other than civil rights, the war with Vietnam being one of them.

The nation was being torn apart by the War with Vietnam in all regions.

One Southerner to come out against the war with Vietnam was Martin Luther King, of course he died before the election of 1968.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr._Memorial


By the time of his death, he had refocused his efforts on ending poverty and stopping the Vietnam War.[17][18] In 1968, he was backing the Memphis Sanitation Strike and organizing a mass occupation of Washington, D.C., called the Poor People's Campaign.[19] King's assassination in Memphis on April 4, 1968 disrupted the Campaign and led to unrest in cities across the US.[20] King was posthumously awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1977 and Congressional Gold Medal in 2004; Martin Luther King, Jr. Day was established as a U.S. federal holiday in 1986, and was first observed in all states in 2000.[21][22][23]

Martin Luther King was killed by a man from Illinois so using your logic perhaps we should trash the state of Illinois?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Earl_Ray

James Earl Ray came from a poor family in Alton, Illinois, and left school at age 15. He joined the US Army at the close of World War II and served in Germany.

A regionalist willing to condemn tens of millions perhaps a hundred milion people not because of their character but based on where they were they born or live, is no different than a racist willing to condemn an entire people because of the color of their skin.

[cordelia]

68. Simple answer: Yes they are.

Any progress we've made here is ignored, including the picture from 14 years ago of the confederate (sic) flag over the Statehouse in SC.

Was it up there too long? Yes! It never should have been there to begin with.

[johnlucas]

110. The Confederate Flag is still there, cordelia. These 2011 articles tell the tale.

South Carolina Governor Rejects NAACP Push To Remove Confederate Flag
Gingrich Defends South Carolina's Decision To Fly Confederate Flag At Capital

Pictures come directly from the stories.
2011.




Two Thousand Eleven.

John Lucas

P.S.: Twenty Eleven.

[treestar]

107. I read a lot of anti-America posts on DU

without ever personally taking offense as an American.

America has done some rotten things - I can handle that.

[johnlucas]

109. Exactly.

For example I agreed with this headline from the British press.



They were right & I didn't cry about the message because it came from a non-American.
John Lucas

[TroglodyteScholar]

180. Bingo

I'm a white man born and raised in the South (AL, TN, LA, GA). Just wanted to chime in to say I like pretty much all your posts in this thread and agree with you 100%. Keep doing what you do!

[johnlucas]

191. Thank you TroglodyteScholar

Together we will destroy this evil Confederate system that derails Progress in this nation.
Much respect to you.
John Lucas

[coldmountain]

31. You show us your respect for African Americans. More concerned about your privilege

Maybe in way that's the point. Many white southern DUer's show more concern about them being called a racist than fixing the problems in their troubled region. I would say you're an enabler of your fellow Southerners, blaming Yankees instead of owning up.

[cordelia]

69. Why do you continually use the presumed pejorative term "Yankee"? n/t

[coldmountain]

85. Yankee is such a perjorative term that New York named it's baseball team "Yankees"

BTW, one of the most valuable teams in all of sports.

To many, Yankee has meant liberator.

[cordelia]

171. From one of your fellow bashers.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3877493

[giftedgirl77]

182. For the record as a mixed race family

living in a relatively average size town in SC my youngest son has felt all of the wrath of racism from the black kids for having a "white" mother they get really confused when he explains that I'm hispanic. We live in a small neighborhood of maybe 30 houses equally divided between white, black, & Hispanic & have no issues at all with any adults.

Every now & then we may see some rebel flags but as far as blatant racism no. We didn't even have an issue when my son told his little league coach that he wasn't comfortable with the praying before games. My son said he would just sit on the bench, instead the coach just stopped doing them.

With that being said, I think the over the top blanket stereotyping of the south is a bit much.

[Hoyt]

53. No one is blaming Southern Democrats. They are blaming the majority conservatives who

put the idiots in office.

I live in the South, and by god it's time for a change - here and anywhere else right wing philosophy holds us back.

[kentauros]

76. "No one is blaming Southern Democrats."

No one, except for the OP:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3876637

I do agree that it's time for a change down here. But posting divisive crap, and being a divisive poster to begin with, only helps the Right. I'm not pointing to you, just the mountain with the lower temperature OP

[Hoyt]

79. Sorry, I get his point, and he's not blaming Southern Dems.

He's suggesting southern DUers quit defending the "south" in the recent threads ("south " being the majority yahoos who elect these fools and perpetuate hatred, callousness, bigotry, warmongering, jingoism, etc. ).

I live in the South, went to school here, and don't see it divisive to state the truth - - southern conservatives have hurt this country and will continue to do so. Since they are in the majority here, the South is a problem for progressives.

With that said, he/she could have posted a bit clearer so as not the offend anyone.

[kentauros]

82. This is not a case of unclear wording on the subject:

"Maybe it's time for Southern Democrats to quit being human shields and apologists for the racists."

That's to-the-point blame. I do not read it as anything but. Only a master of obfuscation would say there's no blame in that sentence.

[cordelia]

168. Correct.

[Tx4obama]

138. Please reread the last part of the OP again...

... where it says: "... the Southern region of America should get much of the blame for the shutdown... "

That does NOT say 'republicans' or 'conservatives' - it says 'the Southern region'

It totally dismisses the fact that there are MILLIONS of democrats in the Southern region and WE are not to blame for the shutdown!

And considering the length of time that the OP has been up and has not been edited it shows that the OP is trying to bash everyone in the region of the South.

[Hoyt]

141. Seriously, you are being too much of a "strict constructionist." Read the OP as a whole.

I don't feel bashed by OP. If I did, I'd probably get my response hidden by the jury.

Have a nice weekend. We love you.

[leftstreet]

9. 'and other minorities' Like...?

[JI7]

13. gays , atheists etc

[Tx4obama]

15. But the OPers says 'no whites'

I know many WHITE LGBTers and WHITE Atheists

[kentauros]

16. However, there is one kind of white minority:

People with Albinism.


Not to be without empathy or compassion for those with that condition, just pointing one means to get around the exclusionary ruling above

Oh, I would guess the rule also means anyone with the last name of White can't talk to him/her/it, either

[Tx4obama]

18. Warning: Breaking Bad SPOLER - below

Well, Walter 'Heisenberg' White won't have to worry - since he died

[kentauros]

19. I've never had an inclination to watch that show,

so it's not a spoiler, really. Which one was he, by the way (as if I know any of the characters/actors)?

[Tx4obama]

22. Brian Cranston - the main man.

I didn't watch it when it first came out.

But my elderly aunt did - it was her favorite show.

She talked me into watching it and I'm glad she did - it was awesome.

After it ended I re-watched all five seasons in one week.

My aunt died this past June - so she never got to see the last eight episodes.

It was really hard watching this year's final season knowing that I was watching her favorite show and she wasn't

[coldmountain]

26. “Breaking Bad’s” racial politics: Walter White, angry white man

“Breaking Bad’s” racial politics: Walter White, angry white man

Walter's brutal meltdown shows genius way "Breaking Bad" deals with white privilege, and men who can't get enough
BY TODD VAN DER WERFF

"What’s interesting about this is that “Breaking Bad” is not an exceptionally non-white show. People of color are barely represented in the series’ universe, even though Albuquerque’s population is nearly half Latino. Sure, there are recurring characters of Latino descent, including Hank’s partner Steve Gomez and Jesse’s longtime girlfriend Andrea Cantillo, but the fastidious and terrifying Gus Fring is the only Latino character in the show’s run to make his way to regular character status, and he was killed by Walter after a harrowing game of cat-and-mouse. “Breaking Bad’s” four most important characters—Walter, Jesse, Skyler and Hank, in roughly that order—are all white, and though the center of the show is one family that’s eventually torn apart by Walter’s choice to break bad, it still has always seemed a little weird that the show has so few important Latino characters, particularly when one of the main villains over the course of the series has been a Mexican drug cartel.

There are reasons within the show’s structure for this to be the case. The series has always been relentlessly focused on Walter and how his actions affect the circle immediately surrounding him. To that end, it makes a certain amount of sense for the series’ Albuquerque to feel slightly underpopulated. (This underpopulation problem was most noticeably an issue in the first two seasons, when it sometimes felt like only 15 people lived there.) Walter doesn’t notice others around him because he’s so focused on building his empire. Similarly, the series has gotten less “realistic” over its run and has become something like Walter’s tortured soul making itself into pulpy reality. Thus, the show isn’t terribly interested in representation so much as it is in making the contents of Walter’s head into its setting.

But the foremost reason for this to be a show primarily about a middle-aged white guy is because it’s perhaps the last of the great antihero dramas. The antihero drama movement, kicked off by “The Sopranos” in 1999, with important roots in 1993’s “NYPD Blue,” has had shows that weren’t strictly about white men. “The Wire,” for instance, had antiheroes who were both white and African-American, while “Damages” (which is not a very good show but is very good at playing up antihero tropes) was centered on Glenn Close. But for the most part, this has been a movement dominated by singular white men, whose combination of ruthlessness, inherently sympathetic nature and sexual charisma has led them to deeper and darker things. The subtext of so many of these shows has been about that white guy taking what he was always owed, be that money or sex or power, and regardless of if that man was conventionally attractive—like Don Draper—or a little schlubby—like Tony Soprano—there was something thrilling and sexually dangerous about it."

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/22/breaking_bads_racial_politics_walter_white_angry_white_man/

[Behind the Aegis]

36. Apparently, gays don't count. There's a shocker.

Neither do atheists or Jews.

[Aerows]

119. Yep

Here's my shocked face.

[cordelia]

174. Here's my shocked gay face to go with yours.

[Aerows]

177. I swear these have to be people

that are trying to divide Democrats as badly as Republicans have done to themselves and their own party. I don't think they realize yet that we aren't as dumb as their supporters, and pretty much believe they can kiss our ass if they keep trying to denigrate the fine Democrats we call friends on this site and in our party

[coldmountain]

20. Hispanics, Asians, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs,immigrants from Africa and the Carribean, Native Americans

No whites in the discussion.

[kentauros]

21. Too late!

[coldmountain]

25. I bet it gets surreal for minorities to see whites arguing among themselves over who is more racist

Gee, one would think Southern whites were the biggest victims of bigotry from the arguments.

It's pretty obvious though that the Confederate flag waving Southern based Tea party has gotten the attention of the world and there will be blowback against the South. Maybe it's time for Southern Democrats to quit being human shields and apologists for the racists.

[Tx4obama]

30. So, you think that ALL Southerners should be blamed because ONE idiot waved a flag in DC at The WH?

Are actually accusing Southern Democrats of being apologists for racists?

Wow!

Considering how many offensive statements are on this thread if it was mine (thank goodness it isn't) I'd do a self-delete.

[coldmountain]

32. The Confederization of the Tea party was hardly just a few people

The Tea Party, the debt ceiling, and white Southern extremism
The goal, methods and passions of the Tea Party in the House are all characteristic of the radical Southern right
BY MICHAEL LIND

The Tea Party movement takes its name from the Boston Tea Party of 1773, when American patriots dumped British tea into Boston Harbor to protest British imperial power. But while New England was the center of resistance to the British empire, there are few New Englanders to be found in today’s Tea Party movement. It should be called the Fort Sumter movement, after the Southern attack on the federal garrison in Fort Sumter in South Carolina on April 12-13, 1861, that began the Civil War. Today’s Tea Party movement is merely the latest of a series of attacks on American democracy by the white Southern minority, which for more than two centuries has not hesitated to paralyze, sabotage or, in the case of the Civil War, destroy American democracy in order to get their way.

The mainstream media have completely missed the story, by portraying the Tea Party movement in ideological rather than regional terms. Whether by accident or design, the public faces of the Tea Party in the House are Midwesterners — Minnesota’s Michele Bachmann and Joe Walsh of Illinois. But while there may be Tea Party sympathizers throughout the country, in the House of Representatives the Tea Party faction that has used the debt ceiling issue to plunge the nation into crisis is overwhelmingly Southern in its origins:



http://www.salon.com/2011/08/02/lind_tea_party/

[johnlucas]

48. Whoomp there it is!

About that Midwest part?

Remember how the Ku Klux Klan set up shop in Indiana.
Plus over the years people migrate & move around.
So we see the natural occurence of the Middles & the West.
But most of it predictably is in THE SOUTH.
Chance occurence in the Northeast 'cause you'll always have your random wackos.

John Lucas

[Tx4obama]

176. So, the chart shows 63% of 40 House teabaggers = 25 asshole House members

You really shouldn't be bashing the whole region of the South because of the actions only 25 republican assholes

[johnlucas]

195. Who elected those 25 A-holes? And where were they from?

Southerners elected those 25 assholes.
And Southerners are from The South.

You can't dispute that math. Them numbers don't lie.
It's a problem & you know it.
Not a minor one either.
It's the most pressing problem in the political thought.

Once it's solved many other problem will fall like dominoes.
John Lucas

[Tx4obama]

196. So, should we blame YOU for 'everything' 'everyone' does in your state?

Don't you see how silly that sounds?

[Doctor_J]

250. Those 25 assholes almost shut down the government

and are from the south. that's the point. The only point.

[Uncle Joe]

251. Only one person was responsible for shutting down the government and that was Boehner.

He wouldn't allow a vote.

[Doctor_J]

255. Because of the tiny minority of teabaggers, whom he fears.

as johnlucas points out, we are NOT insulting southerners as in every person. However, if for some reason Crooze had to defend his seat in a special election against wendy Davis next month, he would win in a landslide. The absolute dumbest, most toxic and malignant person in the Senate would crush a very bright, capable woman. The South, overall, as johnlucas makes clear, is racist, ignorant, and dragging the whole country down. I agree with Lucas, the region and the states should be ridiculed instead of coddled. On the upside we may jar the sane southerners into getting rid of idiots like Cruz and Perry and the rest of the secessionists and traitors. The potential downside is minimal since it can't get any worse for us electorally in the region. We're not insulting Southern Dems. We're attacking the confederacy on the whole because they elect nut jobs and traitors overwhelmingly.

[Uncle Joe]

257. Wasn't Cruz just recently elected? Why would they have a special election? It seems to me his

seat is safe for the time being.

Also Wendy Davis is running for Governor of Texas next year.

Regionalism and racism are twins, the former has no moral advantage over the latter and nether serve any useful purpose except to divide and conquer the nation along regional lines something for which the Republicans thrive on.

Regionalism is a resort of the lazy minded; spouting simple, self righteous answers to complex questions and in the process dumbing down the people by only building psychological barriers between the speaker and the listener (s).

[Doctor_J]

258. They wouldn't. it's just a hypothetical. the point being that a

terrific candidate like Davis would get clobbered by a stupid loser like Raphael. This points to a systemic problem, which needs to be addressed

[johnlucas]

281. Thank you Doctor_J! Glad somebody said it!

How did Texas go from Ann Richards to freakin' George Walker Bush to daggone Rick Perry???
How did this happen?

Ann Richards was quality.
And all of a sudden they put the son of the man she ridiculed in office?!?!
Ann Richards said that George Herbert Walker Bush couldn't help it. He was born with a silver foot in his mouth.
But then Texans voted in the one who had the silver booties???

What the hell happened?!!

PLEASE let Wendy Davis win Texas & turn that state Democratic so we can be rid of these damn Confederates.
We got to quarantine those no-hopers & gather everyone outside of them.
The elections of Barack Obama proved that you can do an end run around this bigot block.
Once we break the stranglehold on Texas the whole Confederate South will begin to fall.

First thing's first is getting those "britches" out of the House in 2014.
Then getting behind the Democratic nominee (probably Hillary whether people like it or not) in 2016.
After that holding strong onto the Congress for 2018.
Then re-electing that new Democratic President in 2020.
Holding onto the Congress for 2022.
Then starting ANOTHER 8 year run for the Democratic candidate in 2024.

We pull that off, the Confederate South will be dead.
Turning Texas over is the key & I cannot WAIT until I see the tide turn there.

[Art_from_Ark]

33. That poster won't do a self-delete

He likes to fomenter la merde

[Tx4obama]

34. Looks like it. Time for me to wander off and find a thread 'Meno puzzolente e più dolce'

[AverageJoe90]

35. Hate to say this, but good points notwithstanding.....

Our friend ColdMountain is probably more at home amongst the social-justice types on Tumblr than here in DU's "Big Tent".....and this IS coming from somebody from Texas, btw.

[Art_from_Ark]

38. It seems like he has a super big grudge against the South

The South is a diverse area. My part of Arkansas, which is home to Wal-Mart, Tyson's, Daisy BB Guns, and the main campus of the University of Arkansas, is MUCH different from the stereotypical image of the South. My county votes red, but a lot of that is because of all the people who have moved down from Michigan, Iowa, Illinois, Ohio, and other Northern states.

[AverageJoe90]

39. True.

I mean, sadly, our little corner of the country does have a pretty dark side to our past, and to be honest, racism remains quite a bit more of a problem than many realize. Though, TBH, it doesn't help to blame an entire region for the actions of some, as this OP appears to have been framed(even if not intentionally), nor does it help to exclude any group from conversations about racism & related issues, regardless of who is excluded & who is doing the excluding.

[coldmountain]

86. "pretty dark side" is putting it quite mildly

Basically the original sin of the nation and beyond our borders.

[kentauros]

63. I had to chuckle at your continued obstinance :)

Thanks for making me laugh! Being called a bigot here on DU is a new one for me

[cordelia]

67. What's surreal is seeing hate-filled posts like yours - and others-

on a supposedly progressive site.

So, you think you own the site now, dictating who can post based on race?

What other minorities?

[Eleanors38]

214. "Southern democrats... shields and apologists... for racists."

Yeah, I think you have revealed yourself completely.

Some folks use the charge of "racism" as a shield.

[Bluenorthwest]

72. But the only group which faces legal discrimination in the

entire South along with some other States is GLBT Americans who come in every racial makeup that exists. GLBT people are a minority and in every Southern State it is perfectly legal to discriminate against us in housing,employment and rendering of service.

This makes me think you do not care much about the actual issues, the real harm done, the true laws and the injustices they create.

[Aerows]

116. Speaking as one

in MS, no less, you said a mouthful.

[yuiyoshida]

75. I wonder how many fall into those

categories, It be interesting to know.

[AsahinaKimi]

77. It really does not matter, sis...

Everyone contributes.

[yuiyoshida]

78. mochiron!

sou desu, ane chan.

[Art_from_Ark]

219. Eee?

ゆいさんときみさんは姉妹ですか？

[yuiyoshida]

225. not sister by birth or blood..

But she is so close to me, I consider her my sister.

[Art_from_Ark]

226. Naruhodo

親友で、姉妹関係とほとんど同じです。

[yuiyoshida]

227. un..

sou desune

[Sissyk]

88. How to you know here who is who?

Are you saying you must be a black gay to be in this conversation?

[Sunlei]

37. self-segregation of counties, neighborhoods, voting districts, along with gerrymandering

by political party and race. some states have more 'self-segregation' than others, imo southern states if you look at the census at the county level there is still a lot of separation by race. I think republicans as a party are more willing to tolerate, pander to, old southern style racists if in the end it means another republican voter.

Still, only about half of American voters vote. No matter where people live, what color they are doesn't matter at all. If people would just break the 'chains', make the effort & vote.

[JustAnotherGen]

44. I think we

Are sitting this one out. You asked from black DUers and other minorities - but as a black DUer - that flag creates a visceral dark reaction from deep within. And I know it's history and that it was flown by another "country" who saw my ancestors as non human.

Other than that - I'm sitting this one out.

[johnlucas]

49. Don't worry JustAnotherGen. This Black will handle the situation

Luckily I was born in the mid-late 1970s so the impact on me is less impactful than someone who lived through it in the bad ol' days.
I welcome the challenge because I want to see what that flag stands for destroyed, demolished, & defeated.

John Lucas

[M0rpheus]

57. :)

[JustAnotherGen]

60. ;-)

1973. My Uncle Doug and my brother went to SC State ate Orangeburg - generation apart. Interesting about when SC decided to "own" that flag again eh?

[orpupilofnature57]

54. Antebellum isn't an era, it's a mental disease .

[Phentex]

59. It won't totally come out but you can treat it

With lemon juice or vinegar. In an extreme case, try bleach but that might be harmful.

[datasuspect]

61. some of the worst racists i've ever met were yankees

[Bluenorthwest]

73. Why is it ok to call other people 'yankees', a word not used

by those you paint with the word but used only by those who want to disparage that group?
I note that Southerners, while whining that others disrespect them by pointing out actual facts, often puke out the word 'Yankees' which has all the bells and whistles of a slur. I note that there is no counterpart 'nickname' that is used toward Southerners. So they call people names then get upset if we point out all the anti gay laws or the history of Jim Crow. Call me a Yankee again, it just proves how right the South is when it whines about being disrespected.....

[Iggo]

66. Trashing ****** thread.

[Bluenorthwest]

74. My last word on this: My Mom was from the South my Dad

from way up North. I was raised way out West. As a child, I once asked them about all the 'North and South' verbiage that got tossed around and Dad told me this "All of that stuff about the North and South is something people do back East. We don't worry about that out here."

[Generic Other]

84. I was surprised at my negative reaction to the confederate flag in front of the white house

I think it was because the flag represented something ugly to me, and it seemed so wrong to wave it in front of a black man's home. An insult to the memory of Lincoln as well.

As for the shutdown, Republicans across the country bear the blame for that bit of kabuki theater. No point singling out one region.

[NuclearDem]

89. I would think when discussing racism of southern whites you might want to hear from southern whites.

Not the racist ones, but the progressives who were either raised in racist families or who still have to fight it in their communities.

[coldmountain]

129. I wanted to hear what non whites thought about whites arguing about southern racism

Of course many can't tolerate that for some reason.

[agentS]

90. There's plenty of blame in the entire GOP to go around

Boner, who is NOT a Southern politician, has a lot of blame here. He let this mess get out of hand in the House and we all will pay a price.

The Southern politicians standing with the Confederate flag, well they fail Optics 101 and pretty much guarantee no more than 1% of US will vote for 'em. They'll get the Uncle Clarence vote, and they Uncle Ruckus vote, and nothing else.

You never see Progressives, Greens, Blue Dog Dems, Left Wingers, Lefties, or Unions do shit like this these days. No one's perfect, sure. But no one is as tone deaf and dumb as the GOP.

[wercal]

91. I grew up in the South

It wasn't remarkably different than many other places I have lived since then. Our culture is fairly homogeneous...we all watch the same national broadcast television, eat at the same national chain restaurants, etc.

Any difference between the south and the rest of the nation are merely a matter of degree. Strongly red states are usually only 50-55% red, when you look at the election results...vice versa for a lot of blue states.

I'm white...there were a lot of black people in 1970's and 1980's Alabama...I remember some of my scout leaders telling racist jokes, and it was clear to me that blacks and whites lived in different places. But we went to school together, the result of busing.

Now I live in Topeka, KS...proud home of Brown V. Board, the crumbling of separate but equal schools, and the force behind busing in the deep south.

You know what happened in Topeka? White flight. The school district in the original case (USD 501) now struggles, as much of its tax base heads a mile or two west, into a 'rural' school district that now sports a 5A high school (98% white). So, in Topeka, home of Brown v. Board, not only do whites and blacks not live with each other...they don't go to school with each other either. And they don't work with each other either, quite frankly.

So I'm a little tired of getting lectures about how backwards the deep south is. I've seen the most overt racism in my life in Kansas, not Alabama.

[HooptieWagon]

92. Yes, southern Democrats are responsible for electing....

Sarah Palin, Rick Santorum, Scott Walker, John Boner, Eric Cantor, Paul Ryan, Michele Bachmann?
It seems to me that DU's "South bashers" should STFU and clean up their own backyards.

[Blue_Tires]

95. Cantor is VA

which I'm sad to admit...

[HooptieWagon]

98. Ahhh, I thought he was PA.

Theres still many POS republicans I didn't name elected from "blue" states. Hell, solid blue California elected Ahhnold gov. twice. And they gave us Reagan. We all do what we can, no need for self-righteous region-bashing.

[yurbud]

94. whites across the country adopt the confederate flag as the closest they can get to a swastika

without upsetting the neighbors.

[Lex]

96. I saw a confederate flag flying in Buffalo NY

while travelling once and I will never forget that. Ugh.

[yurbud]

142. I've seen them in Oregon, California, Idaho...

[Blue_Tires]

97. You know, there IS an African-American forum to pose this question to...

I'd probably try to find a way to frame the question more thoughtfully before proceeding, though...

[Jamaal510]

186. +1

[Prism]

102. As a gay man

I think South bashing is a way for some
people to feel righteous and superior on the cheap. It costs nothing to look down upon and condemn those perceived as cultural lessers. It also makes it easy to ignore problems in our own neighborhoods as we throw stones at others from afar.

It's a bit of ugliness and, yes, hate. I don't cotton to hate in any form, no matter what the justification.

There are many, many lovely people and places in the South, and I won't be tossing that baby out while others pee in the bath water.

This strain of hate on our side is angry and ugly, and I loathe when people do it.

[Aerows]

117. I'm a gay woman in the South

and I loathe it even more. Talk about feeling marginalized. You can't even come on DU without being marginalized.

[Prism]

118. I hear you

And I'm glad you speak out =)

[Aerows]

128. I won't stop

because we need to elect Democratic candidates down here, and all of this ranting and raving about how evil white Southerners (on a Democratic message board, no less) is counter-productive. We need every vote we can get, and we have some opportunities in 2014 to take back the House and gain in the Senate.

I refuse to let people bash me into a position that *I* am the problem, and that my fellow Democrats - White, Black, Red, Yellow or Blue - don't matter. We all do if we want to turn this thing around. I'm the first to tell you that there are some horrible people in my state, but if I keep focusing on them instead of the decent people that can be turned around, I'm wasting my time.

I want to make sure we work smarter than that, not harder for no gain. The shutdown should have taught these very Democrats on this board that - the R's did everything under the sun, worked hard to defund Obamacare, and failed. Smart people would have noticed that all they needed to do to have functional government was to ignore the stark-raving crazies and get on with the business of governing intelligently.

[lumberjack_jeff]

105. I suspect, but do not know...

... that the most dependable democrats are african americans in the south - the "southern democrats" that coastal liberals berate for their ineffectiveness.

We talk about "southern democrats" envisioning "southern whites" without wondering what african americans in the south think about this broad brushing.

I'm sorry that you didn't want to hear from me. C'est la vie.

[treestar]

106. But it looks like you heard mostly from whites

White southerners make the mistake of taking "South bashing" personally. It's about how the South was the place where slavery remained and racism flourished. It's the early South's gift to the nation. Now it's spread all over, in the form of the Tea Party.

It's a mere historical construct, and some people are so sensitive, they can't be objective about the influence of the South as a whole, and in historical perspective - from times their ancestors may not even have been there yet.

It's the rare black person you'll hear crying about "South bashing." Though believe it or not, I have a wingnut who actually claims that there are blacks who preferred the old ways and thought of the Confederacy as "their home," as an attempt to explain why blacks fought for the Confederacy in the Civil War. This idiot argues that black students did better in segregated schools.

And what does the nutcase in North Dakota trying to take over that town want but a pre-civil rights era Southern town?

[YoungDemCA]

120. "Now it's spread all over, in the form of the Tea Party"

Wrong. Racism is-and has been-a national problem.

[treestar]

133. Still the Yankees can get some credit

For putting an end to slavery and not having to be defeated in a war to get rid of it.

Sure there are racists elsewhere, but it's not quite the same. It's not based in the same historical context.

[YoungDemCA]

149. "It's not based in the same historical context."

Duh. Yet that doesn't make racism from non-Southerners-including and surprisingly, I might add, from educated, self-described "progressives"-any less horrible.

I'm not defending the South's racist history, btw. There's a difference between defending something, and explaining why it has historically been the case.

[pnwmom]

135. Then why is the tea party so much more prevalent in the South?

http://www.salon.com/2011/08/02/lind_tea_party/

The mainstream media have completely missed the story, by portraying the Tea Party movement in ideological rather than regional terms. Whether by accident or design, the public faces of the Tea Party in the House are Midwesterners — Minnesota’s Michele Bachmann and Joe Walsh of Illinois. But while there may be Tea Party sympathizers throughout the country, in the House of Representatives the Tea Party faction that has used the debt ceiling issue to plunge the nation into crisis is overwhelmingly Southern in its origins:

SNIP

[YoungDemCA]

145. Because there are less liberal and secular voters in the South

Not because there are more Tea Partiers in the South.

And there's a definite difference in demographics between voters and the total population, in the South and elsewhere, and an even bigger difference between ideological activists (who dominate party primaries) and the general population.

http://www.people-press.org/2011/05/04/section-3-demographics-and-news-sources/

According to this, 38% of "Staunch Conservatives" are Southern-which is very close to the 37% of the American population being Southern.

[pnwmom]

151. The fraction of the population comprising the tea party

is much higher among whites in the South than elsewhere.

[YoungDemCA]

156. How higher is "much"?

Curiously vague of you to say that.

Also, the Tea Party-and the hard Right, for that matter-does not have a monopoly on racism among whites.

[pnwmom]

160. I'm not being vague. I already gave you the link with the pie chart.

63% of the tea party reps in Congress are from one of four regions in the country -- the South. No other region comes close.

http://www.salon.com/2011/08/02/lind_tea_party/

[cordelia]

173. Nothing the least bit vague about your hate for the South and its people.

You've made that crystal clear.

[pnwmom]

175. More garbage from you, I see. n/t

[Tx4obama]

166. 63% of 40 House teabaggers = 25 asshole House members

There are MILLIONS and MILLIONS and MILLIONS of Democrats and sane folks in the South that those 25 assholes do NOT represent.

[johnlucas]

124. Doggone right you ain't gonna see us Blacks crying about "South bashing"

And when others bring up places outside of the Deep South with racist attitudes I laugh because where do you think those people ultimately came from?
What's on the east side of Kansas? Missouri! Just to remind you there's a city in Missouri called Kansas City.
They better look up the 1820 Missouri Compromise & recognize how much of a Southern diaspora spread throughout those Plains & Southwestern States. Right there in the name "South-western".
Arizona was one of the last ones fighting the recognizance of Martin Luther King Jr. Day.
Public Enemy wrote a song about it.

The proverbial South didn't just remain in the South. They spread out.
But the root mentality & structure built in the South carried over with them in their spread.
Texas was settled by people from Missouri!
Cowboys from Texas went all the way up to Montana with the cattle runs.
The Klan ran strong in Indiana which is right above Kentucky.
Why is Kid Rock from Detroit, Michigan rocking Confederate Flags at his concerts?
Why did Kid Rock switch from rap in the spirit of Vanilla Ice to the country-and-western rap when he said he had to go back to his roots?
Country and Western? Doesn't that pretty much tell the whole story right there?
From North Florida to Idaho is a big affinity for this type of music loved in the South.
Why are so many White supremacist groups concentrated in isolated rural areas like North Dakota & Idaho anyhow?

If they don't want to face the reality of this situation that's fine.
But the South needs that disease purged.
"Bash" away.
John Lucas

[pnwmom]

167. Funny, I was just reading about that diaspora. I'll be back

in a minute with the link.

Maybe you already saw this. But in case you haven't . . .


http://www.salon.com/2011/08/02/lind_tea_party/

The four states with the most Tea Party representatives in Congress are all former members of the Confederate States of America. The states with the greatest number of members of the House Tea Party caucus are Texas (12), Florida (7), Louisiana (5) and Georgia (5). While California is in fifth place with four House Tea Party members, the sixth, seventh and eighth places on the list are taken by two former Southern slave states, South Carolina and Tennessee, and a border state, Missouri, each with three members of the congressional Tea Party caucus.

If states with significant white Southern diasporas were included, the Southern proportion of the House Tea Party caucus would be even bigger. Many of the other states with Tea Party representatives are border states with significant Southern populations and Southern ties. One is Maryland, a state with Confederate sympathies during the Civil War, which, because the Census Bureau defines it as “Northeastern,” is responsible for the only Northeastern member of the Tea Party caucus, Roscoe Bartlett. The four Californian representatives come from the Orange County area or inland California, both regions whose political culture was shaped by Southern political culture, in the form of the “Okie” diaspora that settled there during the Depression.
In the entire House Tea Party Caucus, there is not a single representative from New England.

SNIP

Contradicting the mainstream media narrative that the Tea Party is a new populist movement that formed spontaneously in reaction to government bailouts or the Obama administration, the facts show that the Tea Party in Congress is merely the familiar old neo-Confederate Southern right under a new label. The threat of Southern Tea Party representatives and their sidekicks from the Midwest and elsewhere to destroy America’s credit rating unless the federal government agrees to enact Dixie’s economic agenda of preserving defense spending while slashing entitlements is simply the latest act of aggression by the Solid South.

[johnlucas]

190. Thank you for this

It is LITERALLY the Elephant in the room.
Being that the Elephant is the symbol of the Republican Party.



Nobody's fooling me. I know where the problem is.
The "Okie" diaspora. See? It's all lined up.

Another storefront of that saaaaaame ooooooold enemy that EVERY BLACK PERSON knows all too well.
You can't fool us no matter WHAT disguise you put on.
And they wonder why Blacks vote the way they do.

I would suggest these offended Southerners at Democratic Underground spend less time feeling offended at our strikes against the Confederacy & help us FINISH the job in destroying it.

These suckers won't be satisfied until they start another Civil War.
This government shutdown is not the last of them.
Rebels without a pause.

Fightin' the system like a new modern day robbin' hoodlum.
John Lucas

P.S.: Elephant in the room

[Tx4obama]

199. Btw, the Salon article/chart is from Aug 2, 2011. There was an election in 2012.

Some TPers were not re-elected and some left the TP caucus.

There are only 40 TP House caucus members now.

[pnwmom]

204. It's good news that there are fewer of them.

And hopefully in 2014 there will be fewer still.

[JI7]

146. i have heard from many Right Wing Republicans that Blacks and Whites got along in the south and it

was the liberals from outside who pushed "things" in the 60s that ruined everything.

[johnlucas]

293. There's lies & then there are DAMNED lies

Blacks & Whites got along so well that my grandmother worried when I spent time hanging with a friend in a nearby town that wasn't so friendly to Blacks in her day.
Yeah, they got along alright.
Got a long NOOSE to put around our necks, that's what they got a long.

Any American that says the word "liberal" in disdain is CONTRARY to what the so-called Land of Liberty stands for.
Lib is Lib. Free is Free. Freedom is Freedom. Liberty is Liberty.
EVERYBODY in the Land of Liberty should be Liberal.

Yeah the liberals FREED us from that damned Jim Crow system & I'm thankful for them.
Those liberal liberators trying to make this country Progress into a more perfect union.

Con is Con. Conservative is Confederate.
And I'm not going for that Con game. No confidence in that confidence game.
John Lucas

[Aerows]

115. Are you *trying* to suppress Democratic voter turnout

in the South? Because if I was a Southerner that wanted a better government and wandered in here as a newbie or on the fence, I'd think "Fuck it. We can't win, and even the party doesn't support us. I guess I'll do nothing."

You need to stop with this shit. We have an uphill battle as it is without this kind of nonsense that tells us all white people in the South are useless and don't give a shit.

The first step to getting idiots away from the microphones is to get their asses out of government and to elect sane people. This kind of thing is ENTIRELY counter-productive to that goal.

And I AM a minority that can be discriminated against: I'm gay in MS.

[Hoyt]

131. I think most people coming here honestly will not be offended by someone saying south is on whole

run by too many racist/bigoted/ignorant conservatives, and that needs to change.

To elect sane/decent people in the south, you are going to have to be prepared to tell some folks to go screw themselves.

I really think this crud has gone on far too long to make nice (except in some areas of the big cities where the majority get it).

That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of racist/bigoted/ignorant conservatives elsewhere.

[Aerows]

132. Oh, you absolutely have to not invest energy

into the idiots that wouldn't want help if their own house was on fire and a firetruck pulled up that wasn't full of white, straight Christian men. They'd just find a way to blame the neighbor's for starting it, and the government for not sending out a truck full of white, straight Christian men.

You will never reach them. You have to get the people that are fed up with the tea baggers, and there are more than a few around here that are waking up to the idea that they are lunatics.

[Hoyt]

136. I hear you. And will accept that it might be best not to offend (too much) those who might change.

If they are truly fed up with the Tbaggers, heck I'll hug em and buy them a beer or something.

Have a good weekend.

[Aerows]

159. Get ready

I'm going to rally as many of them as I possibly can.

[Tx4obama]

137. I think the majority of DU Southerners would (and should) be offended by the last part of the OP

... which says: "... the Southern region of America should get much of the blame for the shutdown... "

Of course all of us Democrats agree that we need to turn the red states blue, no one is going to argue with that.

But trying to put the blame on ALL folks in the South for the 'shutdown' is disgusting.

[Hoyt]

139. I didn't take it as blaming all folks, and fully understand what the OP was getting at.

The government officials in the South -- elected by right wingers -- are "blocking up the halls."

[YoungDemCA]

152. As are right-wingers everywhere...

My late grandfather, for example, was as Tea Party hard-right in his political views as they come.

He was a fourth-generation Chicagoan who moved to suburban California. His great-grandfather (IIRC) came from Philadelphia. Not exactly a Southerner.

His second wife-my step-grandmother-was born in Southern California. Her ancestry is French Canadian. Not exactly Southern, either.

I have staunch Tea Party-supporting relatives-my uncle and aunt-who are from California but live in an affluent suburb outside of Columbus, Ohio. Not much of a connection to the South there.

Right-wingers are everywhere.

[Tx4obama]

155. See Comment #150. There's the evidence. The whole region is being blamed. n/t

[Texasgal]

161. People act like

there are no Teabaggers or Rupukes anywhere else except the South.

[coldmountain]

150. Only if one has a chip on one's shoulder and looking for a fight

With 62% of Tea Party members from the South it's hard for the South to escape blame.

[YoungDemCA]

154. 62%?

Source?

[Tx4obama]

170. It is only 63% of the House teaparty caucus. 63% of 40 House teabaggers = 25 asshole House members

All of this South bashing over 25 asshole republicans is ridiculous.





p.s. The 63% number is coming from a pie chart on Salon.com regarding the 40 House teabaggers.
http://www.salon.com/2011/08/02/lind_tea_party/

[Tx4obama]

183. Btw, the Salon article/chart is from Aug 2, 2011

There has been an election since then.

The number of teaparty caucus members in the House stated in the Chart is not current.

Currently there are only about a total of 40 teabaggers in the House caucus.

[Texasgal]

162. Sure, I blame teabaggers. I think everyone does.

So? As a democrat that lives here I have to "accept" some sort of blame in your narrow world?

[Tx4obama]

184. It is NOT 62/63% TP members, the OLD Salon chart is about TP 'U.S. House caucus members'

Btw, the Salon article/chart is from Aug 2, 2011

There has been an election since then.

The number of teaparty caucus members in the House stated in the Chart is not current.

Currently there are only about 40 teabaggers in the House caucus.

[sofa king]

130. Hooray for "historically-informed Americans," a definite minority.

Jubal Early's division had already ransomed the town of Gettysburg for 1500 shoes three days earlier, and had not got them. There was no shoe factory in Gettysburg, and no warehouse of shoes, and this was known to the Army of Northern Virginia.

Harry Heth himself knew it because he sent a unit looking for shoes the night before the battle. They came back shoeless, with information that enemy troops had been seen but not engaged--as per their standing orders at the time. The next morning, Heth went into Gettysburg looking for a fight, and got it.

Heth was a master of report-writing and one of the few individuals on a first-name basis with Robert E. Lee, two advantages which he used to the greatest possible effect.

For example, in 1862, Heth did an excellent job of getting himself promoted to major general by writing himself into the position of a divisional commander in his report on the Battle of Giles Court House and subsequent actions. Heth, a brigadier in command of two small regiments (three to five regiments made a brigade, which put Heth in command of a demi-brigade sized force) and a handful of cavalry and artillery, divided his force into two "brigades" of one regiment each supplemented with a gun and a couple squadrons of horses. Heth won his little battle (future President Rutherford B. Hayes was one of the few wounded on the Union side, while one George S. Patton was wounded on the southern side). Heth then had his subordinates submit reports as brigade commanders instead of regimental commanders. That automatically made Heth a sub-theater commander, an army commander, and a divisional commander, all with half a brigade of troops in a "battle" that had a combined 76 casualties on both sides.

Soon after submission of those reports Heth was made major general and brought into the Army of Northern Virginia by his friend Robert E. Lee.

Weeks after Gettysburg Harry Heth wrote his report of the battle and required some sort of justification for why he moved somewhere he wasn't supposed to be and why he fought when he wasn't supposed to fight. He said he was looking for shoes, which also drew attention to the poor state his troops were in, and partially justified their comparatively poor performance on the battlefield in subsequent days.

Heth's contemporary, John Mosby, observed decades later that, "If Hill and Heth had stood still, they wouldn't have stumbled."

In other words, it's hardly news that a bullshit-American today believes the bullshit that a bullshit-anti-American told 150 years ago. But don't you believe it!

http://johnsmilitaryhistory.com/lewisburg.html
O.R., Vol. XII, p. 491
http://ehistory.osu.edu/osu/sources/recordView.cfm?page=491&dir=015
http://encyclopediavirginia.org/shoes_at_gettysburg#start_entry

This doesn''t qualify me as a real minority, but if you want my opinion anyway, yes, the Old Confederacy is the rotten heart of American hatred. I see how it works every day, and I wish for the day when such awful behavior becomes exceptional, unexpected, and vilified in the Old South. Currently, it is not.

[Hoyt]

140. +1000000. Cool post. Thought you were crazy until I got near the end.

[juxtaposed]

143. I agree with Lucas, Chattanooga last week, this crap needs to be stopped.

I travel all over the south and this is a daily scene from billboards, signs and flags it's down every highway and most roads.
At one time I'd shoot a picture, but it's so common now I don't bother.



Tea Party Tampa
http://www.flickr.com/photos/juxtaposeesopatxuj/sets/72157623866339758/

[johnlucas]

280. Confederate flag is common down here

I see little car plates, belt buckles, shot glasses all with that Confederate flag commonly in stores around the region.
Like buying a stick of gum. All around. Convenience stores, truck stops.

I already mentioned Dixie Outfitters in another post in this thread.
The T-shirts supposed celebrating "Southern heritage".
Oh it's Southern heritage alright. Southern Confederate heritage.
Rebel flag on that too.

They fly that traitor flag & people wonder why they always work against the country?
They're STILL salty over Civil War & Civil Rights. They HATE it.
The resentment is STILL strong. The only difference now is they check themselves a little more so as not to arouse backlash from the National government.
But they have been waiting for their revenge for decades & they sit on this year after year.

That's part of what all the gun-mania is all about. Revenge fantasies.
Fortunately, this ain't the 1860s anymore.
They pull that secession bit again & they'll find out just how deep space-age weaponry has gone.
These recent wars should show them how outmatched they are if the U.S. Military ever turned their weapons on them.
Drones anyone? Bunker busters?

I have no patience for those wanting to coddle that bull-shoot.
Time to eradicate it once & for all.
The government shutdown is just one of the many games.
There'll be more shenanigans pulled that may irreversibly wreck this country if they're not put to an end soon.
John Lucas

[juxtaposed]

297. we can call it out at so many places.. This is not that hard to do, what do you feel we as in

a lot of us should do? As in finding a starting point. I'm game for anything legal, but we should know the limits on that aspect. Public displays of what is wrong is embarrassing. The photo I posted with the flags is only there b/c it is accepted in that area.

I'm game for a lot of things. I'm not in your area, but travel all over the south.

[juxtaposed]

298. du blocked my private email to you?

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[YoungDemCA]

147. OK-let's grant this: Why are Southerners TODAY more likely than non-Southerners to express racism?

Assuming that this is true, of course.

Is there something in the water down South that makes people racist?

History? There's plenty of racist history to go around nationwide. I can tell you about my state of California's rather sordid history of, at various points, racial conflicts between whites, blacks, and a wide variety of different immigrant groups (Asians, Latinos...)

Blaming individuals for their situation-without looking into the historical social context-is something the Right does. Dismissing entire regions-"California, home of the fruits and nuts", "Taxachusetts", is also something the Right does. Why do people who are supposedly on the "progressive" or "enlightened" Left also do this?

[Aerows]

169. Shit-stirring

by people that don't really care about the Democratic party and just like to agitate so that we can't come together.

[sofa king]

179. I think it's poverty and fear.

Most Southerners are the inheritors of the damage caused by at least three massive, widespread economic depressions which disproportionately fell upon the South and which kept most Southerners poor from the Civil War until after World War II. Southerners who have anything today--who are not that many by comparison to the numbers who live in the Old Confederacy now--can look back to parents and grandparents who had nothing, and prior ancestors who lost everything.

All that time, white Southerners gamed the system to make sure that someone always had it worse than they did--in the middle of the tragic conditions described above. They know what they did. Many of them still know how they did it, and that's why we're seeing a resurgence of Jim Crow laws throughout Republican states as they quite deliberately plot to do it again.

That also means that white Southerners know, at least at some dim level, that they fucked over minorities in the South, badly. And that makes them scared, because they know exactly what they themselves would do if they felt they were in similar circumstances--because they went and did it, and were completely crushed for it, and spent a hundred years rebuilding after it.

They fear because they know what they have done and continue to do, and in their hearts they know what the result of doing that can be.

I live among them. I see the fear and racism every day. They don't fear the people they oppress nearly as much as they fear the repercussions for the oppression they practice--that is what frightens them, that the true American ideals of freedom and justice will one day flame anew and consume them for what they have done.

[Aerows]

188. I disagree

Some of my family members grew up in the Great Depression and worked as farmers. You can't just assume that everyone had it fantastic and that the generation after that had it fantastic, too (I hope the idea that the GD was fantastic is noticed as irony).

[sofa king]

239. No, that's not what I meant.

If the case you cite was within the boundaries of the Old Confederacy, then the white farmers who struggled through the Depression in the South only needed to look to the corners of their own lots to see how much worse their sharecropper neighbors had it. Minorities almost invariably toiled on smaller plots, with worse lighting, soil and water, often with larger families and numbers of dependents.

The fear of an uprising against oppression has always been right in the white Southerner's back yard--often quite literally.

[JustAnotherGen]

263. +1

And it's why someone of my grandfather's education and wealth had to yes sir and no ma'am ignorant poor white people who perceived themselves as his "better" because of the color of their skin. They got their rocks off on it and we all know that to be the truth.

The only thing those people had was the color of their skin. But it was something to brainwash the idiots into going along with the wealthy and powerful Southerner's agenda.

And the IndieTeaPublicans have tapped into that today with President Obama as a target. North, South, East, West . . .they are racists with a chip in their shoulder that they didn't get a freaking pony. All the Republicans did was expand their Southern strategy.

[johnlucas]

287. And that foolish White skin color solidarity was here at the beginning of the country

Poor European-descendants in the Colonies instead of becoming united with the subjugated African slaves & displaced Native tribesfolk decided to clique up with the rich European-descendant folks in the manor on the hill.
They looked at their common national origins & decided that the rich Whites would be their family & look after them.
They have supported the evil regimes of the rich landowners ever since.
Helping them raid Natives' lands, supporting the slavery system even if they themselves were not yet allowed to vote.
And once they were allowed to vote still going along with this Manifest Destiny madness.
Fighting the Union for this slavery thing even if they themselves never had any slaves.

Sure maybe individuals broke off & challenged this corrupt system but the grand majority went along to get along.
The feeling of being superior to somebody else was addictive.
No matter how low they may be as long as somebody else was lower they were satisfied.

Let me guess, JustAnotherGen. The Whites never called your grandfather 'Mister', did they?
If they called themselves showing any respect, it was at best 'Uncle' wasn't it?

To HELL with that Southern Heritage!
I wanna see that crumble to the ground!
Dismantle the Southern Strategy.
John Lucas

[JustAnotherGen]

289. Because of his standing

He was indeed - Richard . . . and his father was Aaron. But I think they were a little 'fearful' of our family. There's some oddball (violence for survival) history there - but the fact that he was Richard and someone 20 years his junior would be a miss or a mister is enough for me.

You'll find this interesting:

Sure maybe individuals broke off & challenged this corrupt system but the grand majority went along to get along. The feeling of being superior to somebody else was addictive.

Yep- and ironically they were a few Republicans who made sure my grandfather and his brothers - as well as his father could 'vote'. Be it getting the literacy test in Portuguese (common to give it in a foreign language) in advance so they could 'pass it'.

[DinahMoeHum]

216. Sofa King, I absolutely concur. Years ago, Salon published

a story about the massacre of mill workers in Honea Path, SC in 1934:

http://www.salon.com/2010/09/07/southern_labor_history/


Very important point here: The white churches FAILED the southern white workers BIG TIME during those labor struggles. In contrast, the African-American churches played a critical role in the civil rights struggles of the 50s-60s.

Question is, how the fuck long must we cater to these people (both rich and poor), who today still cop these racist attitudes and act out in fear and hatred?? There will come a point when many of us will say: Enough - Fuck This Shit. We all must work together in our nation and move forward together in the world NOW. If that requires wiping our shit-stained shoes on these people as we move forward, so be it.

[MFrohike]

198. Lack of hypocrisy

Racism has never hidden itself in the south, unlike other sections of the country. The only reason right-wing southern politicians speak in code these days is because their likeminded brethren around the country get squeamish when they are direct. It also doesn't hurt that the south is a fragmented media market in a country where the major outlets are convinced that news only happens in NY, LA, and DC. It's a lot easier to fly under the national radar in FL, GA, or TN than it is in New York.

[Aerows]

163. Demographics of my neighborhood

Understand we are kind of in the sticks so we don't have a LOT of neighbors, but just in my area: 2 Black, 6 White, 2 Hispanic, 1 Cajun, and me 1 Lesbian (gay).

I'm trying to get us all to get out the vote - the Cajun lady next door needs to be driven to the polls since she broke her hip and reliably votes D, so do I. Her husband is frustrated by the stance in Congress, and is planning to vote our nutjob Palazzo out of Congress. The 2 from Chicago, a retired Captain of the Police force is also fed up with Palazzo. I'd vote for Palazzo as soon as I pierce my foot with a hot needle. See, this is how we get numbers. Take them to the polls, help them cast a vote on their own conscience, and quit worrying about people that don't vote your way. Help those that do - not for votes, because you care, and it is the right thing to do.

[Raine1967]

197. PHUCK ALL THIS. I want to know one thing:

The congressman began with an anecdote from the Civil War. "I would liken this a little bit to Gettysburg, where a Confederate unit went looking for shoes and stumbled into Union cavalry, and all of a sudden found itself embroiled in battle on a battlefield it didn't intend to be on, and everybody just kept feeding troops into it," the congressman said. "That's basically what's happening now in a political sense. This isn't exactly the fight I think Republicans wanted to have, certainly that the leadership wanted to have, but it's the fight that's here."

What turdwad compared this shutdown battle to the civil war? This was a terrible analogy -- and I blame the person who said this for making is tangentially about THAT WAR.

That in and of it self was dog whistle bullshit. This isn't about the south, it's about someone saying this garbage and somebody else protecting that identity.

Who said this?

[alphafemale]

201. I have lived in GA and SC since 85. I see more racism when I visit friends and family up north.

Yeah...seriously.

Pat yourself on the back all you want.

Do it until you break your damn arm even.

Typical comments from up in the North

"How can you stand to be around all those black people?"

"Do dressing rooms smell bad since all those blacks use them?"

"I can't imagine having to work with black people."

In my experience the blatant ignorance is much worse up north.

Where I have live the population of black and white has almost always been near parity.

You HAVE to get along.

Pack your ignorance up and sell it down the street. You ain't selling that shit to me.

[morningglory]

213. I am from a big family in the South. Five boys are the oldest with two girls

born at the end. The three oldest siblings are racist republics. We four youngest are FDR dems. Our parents were liberals, having lived through the depression. It seems to reflect the demographics in the country today, with the younger population being more liberal. Now there are 7 children of the older 3 who are teabaggers, have no sense. You can't even talk to them. I have had to ask a niece to stop sending me stupid hateful emails. She blocked me off of her Facebook stuff. The children of us younger 4 are very liberal. HERE IS THE KICKER: one grandchild of one of the most racist older brothers is on facebook. He does theater. He is very sweet. I love him. I have gathered from some of the sweet things he posts that he is possibly gay. This week he posted a photo of his birthday party with maybe 9 friends, 3 of whom are black. He is in the band at school. His grandfather brags about the athletic prowess of his male descendants. This possibly gay child is a ray of sunshine, and I know he is loved by his grandparents. We live in Florida. This teabagger stuff is going to bust wide open in a few years, as the young kids have gone to integrated schools, and are exposed to a more open culture.

[LostOne4Ever]

217. This is idiotic

Using sweeping generalizations against the south while ignoring that there are MANY MANY people down here who are very progressive and MANY MANY people from the north who are just as regressive as the worst teabagger is flat out stupid and illogical.

Such closed minded bigotry and black and white thinking is the exact opposite of what liberalism is about. You are falling into the same trap as those you claim to fight.

[Uncle Joe]

221. It's not illogical, it's purposeful to cause division, first it was divide by region, now it's an

attempt to segregate and divide by race, I suppose next there will be an attempt to divide by gender.

Too many posts of this nature by the OP for it to just be idiotic, in my opinion.

[Sissyk]

230. Uncle Joe wins the internet!

I agree with you. This poster's ultimate goal seems to be to divide the dems! That's all he or she has done since he or she has been here.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

220. I'm black. I'm from the American south. When I see the Confederate Flag. When people argue on

behalf of "States Rights". When they swear that none of that means that they're arguing on behalf of white supremacy or racism or slavery or a time when blacks were treated as less than human...

...well, I just have to call BULLSHIT!!

Oh, and one more thing...

None of this just happens in the American south.

I've experienced the most racism on the shores of New Jersey and in the Northside of Chicago. In Southern Los Angeles and in Boulder, Colorado.

It is absolute nonsense; it is utterly ridiculous to continue to argue that racism, bigotry, stupidity, ignorance are characteristics of Southern people. BULLSHIT!! I've witnessed these characteristics in people all across these United States of America.

Racism--in ALL forms--exist in every facet of American life.

The worst form of racism is subtle racism exists in places NOT in the American South. And people from the North, Midwest, and West have a tendency to believe that just because they may not see the KKK or wave the Confederate Flag or act like Paula Dean that racism doesn't exist. It's simply not true. Subtle, implicit racism is the worst kind in my view!

[coldmountain]

229. Yeah,but California, New Jersey,Colorado, didn't vote against Obama

Every Southern state but Va and Fla did vote against Obama. New Jersey just elected a black Senator. Yes, there is racism everywhere but the south is the worst.

[Sissyk]

231. lol!

You wanted to hear from blacks. You just heard from one and didn't listen to one thing he or she wrote.

Stir, stir, stir.

[coldmountain]

232. So if whites all over have as much racism why voting difference?

Why does the South suck so much at voting for blacks.

[Sissyk]

233. What does that have to do with you ignoring

what a black democrat is telling you in the above post that you ignored? That is what you wanted, right? Some reason I don't think so.

Are you really trying to say Democrats can't be racist? Or that other states have a plethora of black politicians?

Stir, stir, stir.

[coldmountain]

241. Many other black Democrats agree with me about Southern racism

Cory Booker was just elected in one of those racist northern states. Lets see when Ga,La,Ms, Ky,Al, Tn,Ky, elect a black senator.

[Behind the Aegis]

247. MS - Hiram Rhodes Revels, Blanche Kelso Bruce, and currently serving...

Tim Scott -- South Carolina

[coldmountain]

249. Tim Scott a Republican was appointed by a Republican governor, not elected

Be quite interesting to see if Tim Scott gets primaried.

[Uncle Joe]

234. How dramatic is your voting difference when from a total of 1948 Senators nationwide, only 3

Last edited Sat Oct 19, 2013, 01:50 PM - Edit history (1)

African Americans have ever been popularly elected?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_United_States_Senators

The United States Senate is the upper house of the bicameral United States Congress, which is the legislative branch of the federal government of the United States. Eight African Americans have served in the United States Senate.[1] No African American served in the elective office before the ratification of the Fifteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution in 1870. The Fifteenth Amendment prohibits the federal government and state governments from denying any citizen the right to vote because of that citizen's race, color, or previous condition of servitude. Of the eight senators, three were popularly elected, two were elected by the Mississippi State Senate, and three were appointed by a state Governor. The 113th United States Congress marked the first time that two African Americans have served concurrently in the Senate.[2]

(snip)

As of 2013[update], there had been 1,948 members of the United States Senate,[6] but only eight were African American.[7][8] Sheila Jackson Lee, an African-American member of the United States House of Representatives, said "I frankly think it's a shame, and I think it is reflective of America sometimes still idling in the past."[9] While 58 nationwide organizations exists to elect female candidates to the United States Congress - including EMILY's List and the Susan B. Anthony List - no such organization exists to elect African-American candidates.[9] Also, many African-American members of the House of Representatives serve majority-minority districts.[9] These congressional districts are gerrymandered, limit serious challenges to their re-election, and limit their abilities to represent a larger, more diverse constituency.[9]

How dramatic is your voting difference when only four African American Governors have been elected to any state since Reconstruction, one of them, the first coming from Virginia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Paterson

Paterson was the first black Governor of New York and the fourth in any U.S. state (following Reconstruction-era Louisiana Gov. P. B. S. Pinchback, former Virginia Gov. Douglas Wilder, and current Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick). The Lieutenant Governor's office remained vacant until September 22, 2009, when the New York Court of Appeals, ruled in a 4-3 decision that Paterson's appointment of Richard Ravitch was constitutional.[47] Prior to this appointment, under the state's constitution, the president pro tempore of the state senate, Malcolm Smith, would have been next in the line of succession for the Governor's office.[48]

[Tx4obama]

252. It is now FOUR. Cory Booker won the NJ U.S. Senate election this week :)

There is still much work to be done.

We currently have only 20 female senators out of 100 in the U.S. Senate.
In 1992 there were only two female U.S. Senators (that were elected by the people) - we've made some progress since then but not enough

[Uncle Joe]

253. I believe we are making progress but it's a marathon for sure.

Peace to you, Tx4obama.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

273. Not arguing against that, but I will maintain that as a black person that at the very least...

in the South, racism is blatant and therefore, I see it and know where I stand. In other places, racism is subtle. Not knowing that one is racist is the worst kind of racism because it is that kind of ignorance that is the most difficult to overcome. It is the most institutionalized and imbedded into the system. When one doesn't realize that racism exist--it is psychological--and that, for me, is the scariest because it is hard to demonstrate to someone who can't even see for himself/herself that it racism exists. It is therefore the most difficult form of racism to eradicate.

[Glassunion]

236. Nope.

I currently live north of the Mason-Dixon Line, however Georga is still my home.

To say that the south should get the blame is a lazy and self-centered statement in my opinion. Looking for blame is the lazy man's game. You see a problem, you fix it, not piss and moan about who's to blame. Instead of seeing the problem and saying "What can I do to help?", the lazy toss their hands in the air and say "It's not my fault"

[Uncle Joe]

237. Here's the official state song of Georgia.

[Glassunion]

238. My favorite song by Ray

He did it the best

[coldmountain]

243. the song was written by Hoagy Carmichael and Stuart Gorrell

just saying

[Uncle Joe]

245. Yes Carmichael and Gorrell were both from Indiana and Ray Charles from Georgia loved the song.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoagy_Carmichael

Born in Bloomington, Indiana, Carmichael was the only son of Howard Clyde Carmichael, of Scottish ancestry,[citation needed] and Lida Mary (Robison). He was named Hoagland after a circus troupe "The Hoaglands" who stayed at the Carmichael house during his mother's pregnancy.[4] Howard was a horse-drawn taxi driver and electrician, and Lida a versatile pianist who played accompaniment at silent movies and for parties. The family moved frequently, as Howard sought better employment for his growing family. At six, Carmichael started to sing and play the piano, easily absorbing his mother's keyboard skills. He never had formal piano lessons. By high school, the piano was the focus of his after-school life, and for inspiration he would listen to ragtime pianists Hank Wells and Hube Hanna. At eighteen, the small, wiry, pale Carmichael was living in Indianapolis, trying to help his family’s income working in manual jobs in construction, a bicycle chain factory, and a slaughterhouse. The bleak time was partly spelled by four-handed piano duets with his mother and by his strong friendship with Reg DuValle, a black bandleader and pianist known as "the elder statesman of Indiana jazz" and "the Rhythm King", who taught him piano jazz improvisation.[5] The death of his three-year-old sister in 1918 affected him deeply, and he wrote "My sister Joanne—the victim of poverty. We couldn’t afford a good doctor or good attention, and that’s when I vowed I would never be broke again in my lifetime." She may have died from influenza, which had swept the world that year.[6] Carmichael earned his first money ($5.00) as a musician playing at a fraternity dance that year and began his musical career.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Gorrell

Stuart Graham Steven Gorrell (September 17, 1901 – August 10, 1963) is best known for writing the lyrics for the song "Georgia on My Mind".

Born in Knox, Indiana, Gorrell attended Indiana University; there he became friends with fellow student Hoagy Carmichael. After hearing Carmichael play the newly composed melody at a party, Gorrell stayed up all night with Carmichael working on the song and ended up writing lyrics for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_on_my_mind

Ray Charles [edit]

It was not until Ray Charles' 1960 recording on The Genius Hits the Road, that the song became a major hit, reaching the number one spot for one week in November 1960 on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100. On March 7, 1979, in a mutual symbol of reconciliation after conflict over civil rights issues, he performed it before the Georgia General Assembly (the state legislature). After this performance, the connection to the state was firmly made, and then the Assembly adopted it as the state song on April 24.

Just saying.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

248. Like anywhere else we need to get real Democrats elected

We don't want Democrats who 'feather their own nest and pretend to be republicans so that they can stay in office.

Through hard work it is possible to turn the tables.

We need to constantly be on the doorstep talking to people. Issuing them with the correct information to counteract right wing lies. Infiltrate the churches and organizations which spit right wing propaganda.

[ScreamingMeemie]

254. You are not the boss of me. I will post where I want.

Oh yeah, and

[coldmountain]

260. I asked blacks what they thought

and southern whites told me! I think several of them told everybody. The reason Republican racists dominate the South is Yankees are meanies and not a lack of morals among a large voting bloc of their fellow white Southerners. Like Shakespere said "Thou doth protest too much".

[lunasun]

269. Summarizes largest portion of thread which negated the intent

Guess you learned you can't ask that around here in GD without interception

[johnlucas]

275. They have derailed this entire thread

I hope you got the answers you were looking for from us inbetween all this noise.
"Thou doth protest too much" is absolutely right.
Makes me wonder what's REALLY going on.
This is not a fight they should be having as supposed Southern Progressives.

John Lucas

[Uncle Joe]

278. American Progressives don't believe in segregation, we do believe in open debate to all races and

genders.

[lunasun]

268. Oh yes if OP asked to hear from those LGBT or women raped that would be your reply too

[ScreamingMeemie]

270. No. The OP was a self-serving piece of BS...

[cordelia]

271. Precisely.

[Rex]

277. You don't want to hear from whites?

My my my. SO we cannot even post a reply in your thread!? Like I just did? Why are you being so discriminatory? Just a standard practice with you?

[coldmountain]

285. So what I've discovered is the that the big problem in the South is bigotry to Southern whites

Yes, ask what African Americans and other racial minorities think about whether Southern racism is still a big problem in the direction of the nation and Southern whites go crazy. I think that proves something. I guess we all have to mull over what that means.

[Rex]

292. So you discriminate in a thread about discrimination?

Amazing.

[coldmountain]

291. I wanted the opinions of those being discrimated against, I guess that's Southern whites

[Ash_F]

283. I have a feeling a lot of White people are posting in this thread. /nt

[pecwae]

286. If you actually only wanted

to hear from AAs why not post this in the AA group as suggested by Blue Tires #97?

[Mr Dixon]

288. IMO

I'm never going there

[gopiscrap]

295. welcome to DU