There's an Ugly Truth about a Faction of our Democratic Party that Needs to Be Addressed.

[KoKo]

Southerners are Easy Bashing for Dems in Power Circles...as if we are Tea Partiers...Ignorant and scroll things like "Morans" and other Ungrammatical Sayings on Signs and Car Windows and Banners and Protest Signs. AND YES....there are the Uneducated Amongst Us...who listen to Rush Limbaugh who has covered the Airwaves since Ronald Reagan (Republican) gutted the "Fairness Doctrine for Broadcasters of Media...and Bill Clinton (Democrat) did the "1996 Media Deregulation Act".. and we've seen how both of these actions by Presidents on Both Repug and Dem Sides have resulted in DUMBING DOWN of the Public ...WHO OWN THESE AIRWAVES used AGAINST US!


Indeed its getting old. And, it doesn't fit what the Democratic Party needs to be talking about.

There's an Eliteness in the Dem Party which is growing that looks down on those who aren't CHOSEN... It's something that's going to hit us in the future.

BUBBA's are ALL OVER THE USA! And Mullets didn't just belong to the South when they were in fashion....they were in pockets (see "bvar22's Map&quot and read a little of Joe Bageant's books because what he describes exists all over America as the Poor Grow in Numbers and the Education only goes to the TOP 1% for Private Schools and being recognized because you went to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT...or the other Top Universities.

For the rest of us "Down Tier University Graduates"....Our jobs went with NAFTA OVERSEAS during REAGAN AND DOWN.

ALL WAS OUTSOURCED...and the TPP and Other TRADE DEALS by Obama and the ELITES will grind us down so that we will learn how to be "Bubba's" at some point in the FUTURE if we don't stand up NOW and Force our DEMOCRATIC PARTY TO LISTEN TO ALL OF US! Not...MAKE FUN of the LESSER OF US!

DU Poster Bvar's Map! Hat Tip and thanks to Him!

[William769]

1. And some of them are just plain jealous of us & full of envy.

[KoKo]

10. I just added THE MAP...Please hit OP Post. DU'ers incredible Map of how the RW is Everywhere

amongst us! But...here it is.

[Jackpine Radical]

15. The map now known officially as

The Mullet Map.

And I'm in full sympathy with your complaint. In a slightly different context, "Flyover Country" is regarded with the same disdain by our more sophisticated and valuable contemporaries on the coasts.

[coldmountain]

30. The reverse snobbery of the term "flyover country" makes my point of it's a loser going after Bubba

Why keeping bending over backward for people with a chip on their shoulder? People who endlessly vote against their own best interest than be in solidarity with women, LGBT, minorities and yes, the educated professional class that's the cornerstone of liberal politics around the world. it's like you can't be educated around Bubba or you hurt his feelings.

[Jackpine Radical]

33. Kind of interesting that you are able to deduce so much about me & my neighbors

just from my use of the term"flyover country" to describe my part of the world. Some of us is eddicated, though. Guy down the road made it all the way into 6th grade back in '72 before he turned 18 & got drafted. People come from miles around to get his opinion on things.

[coldmountain]

85. You meant "my neighbors and me"

You're the one making fun at the expense of those less blessed.

Believe me, I had to help many employees and customers in Georgia who could not read and write. That's heartbreaking. One of my good friends had a teaching degree and lived in rural Georgia and couldn't get a job teaching because they put no money into education. When they were putting up a new middle school, they wouldn't add staff but were all excited about a middle school football team, that's all anyone cared about. She thought she might get a chance to teach after Newtown because there was so much talk about arming teachers and she is a good shot with a pistol. That's the South I know.

[Volaris]

104. I'm going to argue as follows:

because the only reason they have a chip on their shoulder is because Rush Limbaugh has been allowed to put it there UNCHALLENGED.
There is no reason an L.A. or N.Y. Liberal can't go into West Virginia or anywhere else in the "old south" as it were, and completely clean house in there, but it will take time, and it will take BALLS, and it will take the honesty to admit that in a lot of ways, American "Liberalism" has sold them out.

It will take standing on the summit of a mountaintop destroyed by Big Coal and saying "yeah, you DON'T have to put up with this if you don't WANT TO." It will take going into the most uneducated small towns and telling them that "there's no reason you CAN'T learn what (I) got to learn; small towns don't have to mean small minds, and I don't think a small mind is a thing you possess by any stretch."

A lot of these people have a lot of fear about a lot of things...it's a fear that has been put there by people who would rather use them as a source of profit than give a damn about them, and reversing that will take time and a lot of work, but I say, it's work that is well worth the effort in terms of the "long view". These are not people who will naturally side with Wall Street, and that makes them, potentially, OUR PEOPLE. That's why "flyover country" is important.

[KoKo]

47. Yes...as if "Fly Over" is what one does going from "The Hamptons" to "Silicon Valley"

to do BUSINESS. Which is what it's all about in USA these days. Wall Street to Silicon Valley!

I know that sounds simplistic...but......but.......!

[Luminous Animal]

54. One of the times that I went to a Michael Moore event in San Francisco

in '93 or '94, he advised the audience, well educated urban 20 and 30 somethings, to reach out to the bowling, bbq, and church going communities... to not disdain human beings but to have a sincere dialogue.

That is, he called out the audience for their snobbery and elitism. And oh! The protests! And the grumbling! And the umbrage!

Having grown up on a small family farm in Michigan with my grandpa subsidizing it as a long haul trucker and my dad an assembly line worker, I knew the people he was talking about. People like my mom's cousins who supported the Mondale/Ferraro ticket by wearing T-shirts that said, "Fritz and Tits." People who I loved to death and had their hearts in the right place who deserved more from the Democratic Party establishment.

[KoKo]

61. Recommend! Yes...we shouldn't all be put in BOXES and LABELED...........

We need to find our commonality...but...it's very hard these days. So much is segmented into age groups, demographics for modeling/profiling by Advertisers, Think Tanks and it matters about: Education, Degrees and WHERE the Degrees come from...and if you don't have a degree that you still have value...for your WORK and your BRAIN and CONTRIBUTION...is devalued and put into a box and packaged and preyed on by the Demographic Models and sold off to Political Organizations that Data Mine and Profile and address their Political Messages to you.

[Luminous Animal]

64. This is a very good OP Koko and a discussion that DUers should have regularly..

Thanks!

[KoKo]

100. Thanks for reading...

I was glad to read the replies. Uncomfortable in posting it...but, figured I had to say what I thought because some stuff was bothering me that I saw today, here.

[NYC_SKP]

80. Hey, KoKo, do you have a link to Bvar's OP with that map?

If there is one?

Deserves a kick, I'd say!

[Fantastic Anarchist]

2. K&R ...

All workers need to unite.

Without unity, we are turned into quibbling siblings - and they win.

If we focus our similarities and our differences at the real enemy, we will win.

[Zorra]

3. +1 nt

[DireStrike]

6. Exactly. -nt-

[socialist_n_TN]

7. True. But to focus on our real enemy......

we'll see it's a systemic thing.

However as a southerner coming from a multi-generational southern family, I always urge folks who are considering a political run to go for broke and run as a left economic populist.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

9. Preferably without a party.

[MFrohike]

23. You know

It's not the craziest idea. Southerners are pretty left-leaning on economics, moreso than most of the country. If you can neutralize the inevitable God/guns/gays, you've got a decent shot.

[socialist_n_TN]

26. Yep. And the history is there.........

Look no further than Huey Long. Not the best on social issues, (although I've heard those social issues were cynical rather than heartfelt) but DEFINITELY left populist economically. More so than Roosevelt actually.

[MFrohike]

41. George Wallace

His campaigns were a mix of Theodore Bilbo's racism and Huey Long's economics. Well, not the last one in terms of race, but you get the idea. Hell, Wallace was to left of LBJ, who was to the left of FDR and comparable to Huey (without the whole dictatorship thing).

[okaawhatever]

46. George Wallace was against segregation and had the endorsement of the NAACP for his first campaign.

He lost to a segregationsit and there's some debate about whether he said he got "out-Ni$$$ered" by his opponent. He said he wasn't going to let that happen again. I think that's why he returned to a pro civil rights more quickly than some down South.

[MFrohike]

52. True

Most of Wallace's segregation stances were probably an act, but I was just being thorough in my description.

[TBF]

29. Southern Dem is not a new term -

Texas has only been strong red the past 30 years or so ... in the 1970's Rick Perry was a democrat.

[coldmountain]

32. " Southerners are pretty left-leaning on economics" Southerners on what planet? It ain't this one!

They're fighting against a union at the VW Chattanooga TN factory right now even though heavily labor union influenced VW management wants a union?

Almost every Southerner I ever met believed in "trickle down" economics, it's in the water like fluoride.

I say boycott the South, maybe then they'll figure out their doing something wrong.

[Sissyk]

39. Please, we do want you to boycott

the south. Yes, indeed!

[MFrohike]

40. There's an idea

Why don't you get right on that? Let us know how it works out for you.

[coldmountain]

82. It worked on South Africa and gave us Mandela. What is your answer? Give Bubba a free gun and ammo?

What's your answer to fixing voter suppression and the feet dragging about implementing the ACA, etc. Kiss Bubba's ass one more time while he drives down to the voting booth to vote Tea party to punish the blacks, gays and Mexicans. Typical white Southerners have white solidarity and not American solidarity. That's the contempt the South has well earned from progressives around the world.

[MFrohike]

86. Don't you have a boycott to organize?

It'll be hard to do if you spend all day on message boards.

[coldmountain]

129. There's apps for your phone to boycott Koch brothers products like Georgia Pacific, it's a start

A phone app allowing users to identify products used by questionable companies like Koch Industries and Monsanto has generated enough demand to cause problems for the developer, Forbes reported on Tuesday.

“The workload is a bit overwhelming now,” said 26-year-old Ivan Pardo, the developer behind Buycott. “Our Android app was just recently released and the surge of new users today has highlighted a serious bug on certain devices that needs to be fixed immediately. So all other development tasks I was working on get put on hold until I can get this bug fixed.”


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/15/new-phone-app-allows-users-to-boycott-koch-brothers-and-monsanto-products/

Many people already boycott Walmart and many other Southern companies. The South does lead the nation in unemployment as a region, it's already being hurt.

[MFrohike]

133. Haha

I'm sure it was your app and not general problems in aggregate demand over the last 5 years.

[coldmountain]

136. There's going to be a general boycott of the South coming, mark my words, bookmark it

I'm hardly the only one thinking this. Think about a regional political party that is based on racism, religious intolerance with economic policies based on inverted totalitarianism and with a moral center based on folk Darwinism. Then when that regional party basically declares war on the rest of the nation by shutting down the government and waves their flag of rebellion in front of the White House, that there isn't going to be significant blowback?

Make it personal all you want but you live in the most failed region of America and blaming Yankees won't fix it. An intervention is coming, waving the Confederate flag in front of the White House while the Southern based Republicans and their Tea party radicals shut down the government made that inevitable.

[MFrohike]

137. Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Oh man, you're on a roll. There's nothing like self-righteous ignorance for comedy value.

[okaawhatever]

89. OMG I wrote this long explanation and counter argument and then refreshed and it's gone.

The summary is: This past summer, the southern dems gave you the Wendy Davis filibuster and ensuing media coverage, international magazine and news articles about her and the event, and spawned protests and live coverage of the passage of the bills. The NC dems and the clergy of the Lutheran, Methodist, Catholic, Presbyterian and Episcopalian churches marched each and every monday in moral monday protests against the republican cuts to education, welfare, immigration, schools and veterans. Each monday saw a different theme, one week veterans, then immigration, abortion, and the final week the teachers joined for a rather impressive rally. All these events made the news and threw the gop lunacy into the spotlight. Granted, the gop leadership did help with their pathetic choices for legislation. NC gave us the anti-Sharia law bill with oppressive rules for women's health attached, and the motorcycle safety bill with anti-abortion legislation attached. Not to mention a woman named Alison Lundergan-Grimes is now a serious contender to replace Mitch McConnell in the bright red state of Kentucky. She actually out fundraised him last quarter in case you missed the news.
The southern dems are gettin' it done, so to speak. I wish I could add the pics from the rallies just to remind us how much we did this summer but my computer isn't cooperating. Back off the bubbas, they're moving and shaking.

[KoKo]

99. We have alot of NC Members here on DU and "Moral Mondays" is

an example that the whole South isn't ignorant racists who can't spell and look funny.

Thanks for posting this on this thread because it's truly amazing how NC is fighting back. From being a Blue State for Obama in '08...we got devastated/blindsided by the Repug Crazies coming in sponsered by that ALEC (American Legislative Council) that our Dems and the rest of us never even knew was out there waiting to pounce!

[okaawhatever]

101. Art Pope was behind much of the political shenanignas. he is sometimes referred to as

the third Koch Brother. I saw a great article on him in the New Yorker titled "State for Sale" I think. It's amazing all the unethical and immoral steps he took to get there. Now McCrory has him in his cabinet Shameful warning to all other states. This could happen to you. Friends don't let friends vote these people in.

[Volaris]

109. What you said,

but that's a thing that most of the Democratic "Establishment" simply doesn't have the balls for.
Go listen to Chris Hedges. If he had any interest in actually running for public office, he (or someone LIKE him) could pull off what you're talking about. But again, that man has a spine.

[Jackpine Radical]

125. That's exactly the advice I offered someone who sounded me out

on what I thought of his making a run for State Assembly.

[KoKo]

48. Agree...but look how the Media we Watch divides us colluding and dolled up and ohhh

so COOL and they DO SPORTS and know the Latest BALL SCORES of their TEAMS..across GENDER LINES!

BUT...they are SOOOOO.........COOL and SO ATTRACTIVE! Do you ever see Ordinary looking Folks on our new HI DEF TV Broadcasts?

[pacalo]

4. "BUBBA's are ALL OVER THE USA!"

Anyone with a computer who reads the national news should know this already.

[KoKo]

12. Here's the Map....

[pacalo]

14. Thanks for that! I was going to search for it; much appreciated, KoKo.

[KoKo]

16. Thanks for looking for it...when BVAR posted it I thought it was incredible...

They are ALL AMONGST US...and yes...I have neighbors who don't speak to us...and when we put out a Dem Sign for National or Local Election...they suddenly put up everything Opposite to my Dem Signs.

And they don't even say HI to us when we take out our Trash Cans.... There's a WAR going on here in America. If you can't even say "hello" to your neighbor when you are both rolling out the Trash Pods...WTF?

I live in an upper Middle Class Golf Community .. ......I needed to say this because my post is about the "Elite Folks in Dem Party" and I had to fess up that I live amongst them. But, I didn't grow up amongst them...and I will NEVER be accepted by them....but, that's why I put this post out there. I grew up NOT amongst them...and that I live amongst their pitiful Arrogance and Entitlement is not a REFLECTION OF ME! It's complicated how I ended up here...but, it didn't use to be such a terrible division as it is now. I feel America is at War with it's own Population! Folks can't even speak to each other unless they belong to Church, Club, Sports Group or Gaming Group. If You Think Differently..you are "Outside the Pack." You will be Marginalized.

NUFF SAID.

[pacalo]

25. KoKo, I know the kind of people you're talking about.

I've had to deal with them a lot myself. I don't live in the upper-class neighborhood, but I live near it.

I'll never forget when my first son was in second grade, another student's mother, who lived in the upper-class neighborhood, followed me out of the school & approached me as I was getting into my car. She wanted to know if I belonged to the country club. I told her no, that I didn't live in XYZ. Her face froze. I was amused & I flashed a big smile. Believe me, I was eliminating her in my mind just as much as she was, except it was she who went through the trouble of trying to catch me before I left. Money doesn't make my world go around -- it helps, but it's not what makes me happiest.

[KoKo]

43. Back Attacha...

I had a similar experience so much like yours it's creepy.. I feel like folks with that kind of attitude somehow lost something somewhere along in their lives that they have to put folks in boxes before they want to associate with them.

[coldmountain]

140. So reverse snobbery is allright? Isn't this what it's all about? Reverse snobbery is OK

[coldmountain]

83. Look how much more red the bottom left quadrant is from Texas to the coast & Mason Dixon line south

The red out west has very little population besides Mormons. You can put a map of the Confederacy over this map, subtract out the counties that have large African American or Hispanic populations and that map would be close to totally red.

[truebluegreen]

135. I'd like to point out that the brightest red areas in the plains states and intermountain west

are mostly where people don't live. Looks like Texas is largely an exception, in this as in so many things.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

157. Correct, the total population of the plains states and intermountain west

couldn't fill the Rose Bowl.

[DireStrike]

5. South bashing is stupid for many reasons. Here are two:

1) It isn't accurate. The states are all purple.

2) If the southern states are a redder shade of purple, it is DUE TO MATERIAL CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND in the states. Not because the people that live there are stupid.

Can you think of another group in America that struggles with a history of being an economic underclass, and continually suffers for it?

Now, what would we call you if you said that group were stupid, slow, incapable of fixing their own problems, etc....?

[coldmountain]

24. The South is less educated and has more white chauvinism, it can't be denied

Last edited Wed Oct 16, 2013, 11:17 PM - Edit history (1)

Over and over again, the South and rural areas vote against their own best interests because of racism. The middle class and lower class whites would rather almost starve if they knew that minorities would starve.

Yes, there's anecdotal racism everywhere but the facts are that whites from the Northeast voted 3 to 4 times more for Obama than whites from the South.

Heck, maybe if we quit sucking up to them, reverse psychology would work better anyhow. Beside it's better to deal with them from a position of strength, it seems to be all Bubba understands. The train is leaving the station and in the wor's of their hero, "you're either with us your with the terrorists".

[leftstreet]

37. What % of eligible voters in the south vote?

Is it different from other parts of the country?

[MFrohike]

42. Funny

I like how you insult our intelligence and then make the most common mistake with a contraction. Protip: intellectual condescension goes further when you don't make rookie mistakes.

[DireStrike]

56. Due to material conditions. -nt-

[KoKo]

49. It causes BACKLASH! If you are told you are Stupid, Moran's who can't Spell" it invites

BACKLASH! When you are portrayed in Movies and Used on TV as Idiot Doofuses...(they look for that when they cast Game Shows, Reality Shows and the Nightly News for the latest Murders, Rapes and Downtrodden Victims) yet how many Politicians and Others in High Esteem can SHUT DOWN the CRAP THEY DO! Gets a sound byte on Nightly News and then the High Priced Lawyers or their Donors from the RW or even sometimes Left Wing come in and shut it down or send their PR people out to do the DEFENSE.

Crap Society... Just hire a "Spin Doctor" if you have the Big Bucks and make the payments for Lawyer by appearing on Faux News or MSM if it's a really big scandal and get your Hours of Fame...and then the story disappears off into Litigation.

FAME AND GLORY! If you make it...you can pay the Legal Bills...and if you don't you are gone from your 15 Minutes of Fame.

Simplistic...but for the most part it's the way it works these days.

[arely staircase]

8. two words

Wendy Davis.

[Doctor_J]

18. What about her?

This whole thread is confusing.

[arely staircase]

20. we are working hard in this red state to change things

we are going to kick some ass.

[Luminous Animal]

58. Good onya. One step at a time.

[coldmountain]

27. If Wendy Davis win's, it will because we went after Bubba's wife and her neighbors, Juan and Juanita

Meanwhile Bubba will fight for the candidate most like Louie Gohmert

[arely staircase]

31. exactly nt

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

127. You meant "wins". nt

[Cirque du So-What]

11. The 1% is pleased with regional chauvinism

Haven't we learned anything over millennia? The ruling classes benefit from keeping the rest of us squabbling among ourselves. Perhaps nothing strikes fear in their hearts than unity among the hoi polloi. Those who work relentlessly to ridicule on the basis of geographic locale do the rest of the 99% a great disservice.

[Luminous Animal]

65. +1

[KoKo]

81. That's really what it's about... Distracting Attention and when times get tough

It's amazing most of us can get up in the Morning and manage to function after what we've been through...and now our Challenged Education System with "Charter Schools/Teach to the Test" and Defunding our Programs that help the Poor who have been hurt by our Trade Agreements that were not "Fair Trade" but "Forced Trade" shipping jobs ever more to Third World Countries who will buy our Treasury Bonds to keep our Country Whole because we have a Trade Deficit because we allowed our Jobs to go to China and Southeast Asia (countries like Vietnam which we spent piles of money and lost so many lives trying to rebuild) as we supposedly were doing in Iraq and Afghanistan...and how long have we had troops in Korea and off Island protecting Japan?

WE ARE A MESS and our PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR THIS...while the DISTRACTION GOES ON AND ON...and they focus on our Differences in Age, Gender/Sexual Identification/Race/Culture/Class/Lifestyle and whatever other way they can segment us out to alienate us from each other who are really just PEOPLE trying to LIVE A DECENT LIFE and find some PURPOSE that FULFILLS US and a little HAPPINESS to be Alive.

[Warren DeMontague]

13. Ooooh, "elites"

I bet they eat arugula, drink lattes, and don't go to church, even.

[Doctor_J]

19. I think "elites" means

"get their news from a sourse other than Fox and hate radio". To which I say



Excuuuuuuuuuuuse me.

[Doctor_J]

17. I don't get the reason for this OP

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

21. A few days ago,

people on this message board made the correct observation that the south engages in lockstep right wing politics that drags the rest of the nation down. This was met with the usual irrational objection from this board's southern contingent. As a result, we must endure about 10 "DON'T BASH THE SOUTH!!!!"/"THE SOUTH IS AWESOME" threads for every 1 thread, or post that was/is critical of the region.

[bluestate10]

28. The southern people that are complaining mostly share a like mind with us.

They are Democrats or Liberal Independents because they share the very same core values that we from blue states call our own. What the "southern contingent" as you so dismissively call them are screaming at people like you saying they are like you, stop beating them down and help them lift up their region of the country by neutralizing, then overwhelming rightwing extremists.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

36. I'll tell you,

the problem with most southern Democrats and liberal independents is that they first identify as southern. Liberals and Democrats from other regions DO NOT make their geographic locations part of their identities. People who claim to be "on our side" become overly defensive when the obvious flaws of their region are discussed. This makes it difficult for everyone to come together when they have to walk on eggshells over this issue. I mean come on! Do you REALLY think the country at-large should strive to be more like the south?!

[renie408]

44. No

I am a liberal and a southerner. It is pretty damn lonely down here and when I come to the DU to theoretically get a chance to talk to like minded people, it gets pretty fucking old to constantly be lumped in with the stereotypical view of southerners.

I do not identify as Southern first, but I was born and raised here. For good or ill, this is 'home' for me. Why must I be constantly made to feel as if I am somehow not as 'good' a liberal as those who live in other regions when the fact of the matter is that I am most likely actually a BETTER liberal? After all, I am liberal where it ain't exactly easy. Again, like most South bashers, you need to feel superior to somebody. Since we are liberals, you can't do it based on race or sexual orientation, so you go with superiority of location. Mostly you just look like a jerk, but if that's what you need to do to feel good about you...whatever.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

51. Oh bullshit, DUers from the south are not lumped in with the conservatives from the region.

I would love it if you could produce a link that proves that southern members of this message board are disparaged, or associated with the wing-nuts in your region, I'd appreciate it.

And for the record, I don't bash the south because I "need to feel superior to somebody", I bash the south because I need the majority of working and middle class southerners to get their heads out of their asses and vote their best interests. You might not realize this, but the negative effects of having the current crop of southern politicians in power are not solely felt by just the people who elect them, they are felt by everyone.

Your region is a tremendous burden on the rest of the country, and it amazes me that you would expect people on a liberal message board to view it in a positive light.

[renie408]

53. Where did I ask you to view the South in any light?

And if you want to see what I mean about South bashing, here you go:

>>the problem with most southern Democrats and liberal independents is that they first identify as southern. Liberals and Democrats from other regions DO NOT make their geographic locations part of their identities. People who claim to be "on our side" become overly defensive when the obvious flaws of their region are discussed. This makes it difficult for everyone to come together when they have to walk on eggshells over this issue. I mean come on! Do you REALLY think the country at-large should strive to be more like the south?!<<

And yeah, bashing the South is probably the way to go if you want to influence anyone here. Good thinking on your part.

[coldmountain]

73. Funny one hears whining about political correctness all over the South except when it comes to them

Bless their hearts!

[Luminous Animal]

63. You won't get anyone's head out of their asses by bashing them.

If you are so concerned about the working class in the south, get your ass down there and organize. And when they ask what the Democratic Party has to offer them in the way of jobs, job security, and protecting Social Security and Medicare, you better have answers.

And this? "Your region is a tremendous burden on the rest of the country..."

Outright elitist privilege.

There are "regions" in San Francisco that are tremendous burdens on the rest of San Francisco, somehow I have no problem viewing them in a positive light and working hard to make the lives of those people who live in those regions, actually positive.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

111. We're also not getting to where we need to be by kissing their ass and placating them. n/t

[MFrohike]

50. Oh please

State/regional identifications are extremely common. You're essentially claiming that New York liberal doesn't identify as a New Yorker first and foremost, which is ridiculous. The same goes for California, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Chicago, individual New England states, and the Pacific Northwest. This claim is just patently ridiculous unless you've never met someone from another region when they're not in their native region (i.e. meeting transplants from other regions in the south).

It blows my mind that anyone would attack us for defending the south. I'd like to see the reactions if we had an honest discussion of the widespread segregation present in the northern half of the country. Or perhaps we should discuss race relations in California? Maybe the influence of finance in New York? Hey, we could talk about the atrocious murder rate in Chicago!

When you call us "overly defensive," it's a laugh. Any time outsiders want to have a "talk" about the south, it really means that our intellectual "betters" want to lecture us poor, dumb hicks. Well, given that Wall Street is on your turf and it's exploiting you guys too now, maybe you could try cleaning up your own backyard before carpetbagging your way into ours.

[renie408]

57. But...but...

They are from one of the 'smart' areas of the country, so they are obviously better than us dumb, head-up-our-ass Southerners!

[MFrohike]

60. A regular pack of geniuses

What does it say about someone who continually gets beaten in policy by the dumb guys?

[coldmountain]

75. The smarter areas of the country with higher wages, longer healthier lives, less broken homes

Keep being proud of holding America back, that will spite them damn Yankees.

[coldmountain]

74. Why would anyone want to be part of a construct built around a failed war to have slavery?

I don't see bumper stickers saying "American by birth and Californian by the grace of God" or West Coasters with bumperstickers saying" I don't care how you did it back East"

[MFrohike]

78. Heh

Well, I guess we could all troll message boards about regions other than our own, presumably, but that job seems to be taken.

[backwoodsbob]

115. actually that is not true

There were several posts/threads lately from people wanting their location...the west coast,to break away because it is so wonderful compared to the rest of the backwards country.

[nolabear]

35. Oh bite me twice. nt

[coldmountain]

22. Tired of bending over for Bubba!!!we need to quit compromising our ideals and go after other voters

The Democratic party has stood on it's head trying and compromised it's zeitgeist to get working class white males outside the Northern states from the Civil War and the West coast and all we have to show for it is the Gungeon and a few DINO's to the right of John McCain.

Demographics is on our side and Bubba can wait in line behind woman and minorities. No more cutting in line for Southern white males.

I fought for the excellent Roy Barnes in Georgia and Bubba voted him out over the damn Confederate flag. Many of us trusted Zell Miller and he turned on the Democrats like a snake at the NRA convention. Going after Bubba has caused heartbreak after heartbreak for progressives.

[Jackpine Radical]

34. Somebody ought to talk to you about your recurrent use of that apostrophe in "it's,"

but, being a Flyover person, I of course lack the eddication to do so.

[leftstreet]

38. ...

[Sissyk]

45. lol!

[coldmountain]

69. Best you can do? That its always smartass grammar impaired Yankees holding y'all back?

Chip on the shoulder attitudes like your's is why the South is one step above third world and I'm glad to be out of there. With all these battles with the Tea party, the apologists for the South will be out like Messerschmitts guarding the ball bearing factory defending their "honor", that once again it's not their failed region once again for the umpteenth time holding America back.

Yes, it is always the Yankees holding holding you back, if they would yet making fun of y'all, you would quit voting against your own best interests! BTW, you know the Yankees cheated in the Civil War?

[Jackpine Radical]

126. South? I'm not talking about the South.

Flyover Country is everything between the coasts, with maybe some slack cut for Chicago.

[KoKo]

55. I understand you pain about this...and your anger..but, it doesn't help when our Dem

Party Elitists (and yes...it's what it is these days) is trying to throw out their Dems Fighting the Good Battle in their Home States to try to make the change. Many of these are folks who are horrified at the RW TakeOver after the 70's when Progressive Civil Rights Supporting Dems stood up for Change and supported MLK and worked to make their states come into the Modern World like North Carolina did. There's still that hard core of states controlled by politicians that I wouldn't even break bread with at Cracker Barrell if I was Desperate....but, the PROGRESSIVE MLK and Civil Rights Dems in those States shouldn't be TRASHED as if they are less than the rest of Dems suffering in other States in the Union.

Look at Wisconsin...and other states who had radical Repugs come in and take over...and try as they could the damned Repugs hung in their with BIG MONEY from the Repug Groups who had a Green Light to GO after the Supreme Court ruled on Citizens United.

This is a USA Across the Board Take over by BIG MONEY ...KOCH BROTHERS, ALEC, Heritage Foundation Action Group and the Religious Right who has been there for Decades Building the HATE and making everything about REVELATIONS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT...which they align with those who believe in that stuff who use them and feed their hate saying we all will end up DEAD so that JESUS WILL COME. It promotes an alignment that is not healthy.

[Shankapotomus]

59. I've mentioned this before

but one of our greatest democrats is from the south: Bill Clinton. And so is Jimmy Carter whom we're all proud of. And so many great liberal activists, writers, poets all doing their part advancing justice.

If you are from the south don't feel disgusted. You have much to be proud of and are every part, sometimes a major part, of democratic successes.

In fact, if you are a democrat living in republican territory it probably makes you a more passionate democrat because you see more to get passionate about.

[hfojvt]

68. make more sense if you said LBJ

Clinton, of course, is one of our great DLCers.

And Carter? Well, back in the day, the liberal lion ran against Carter in a primary.

[Shankapotomus]

70. I thought LBJ went without saying

But also, recently, there is Wendy Davis of Texas with her inspiring stand. There should be no southern democrat political inferiority complex. They are doing great.

[Skip Intro]

62. "The people" only come into play when the ptb, on both sides,

hone and master their ways of manipulation.

Both sides seek to stir up anger toward and resentment of the other.

They keep the people split, full of animosity and anger ("engaged&quot , pitting us against one another.

The side that does it better wins.

And we lunge toward the next version.

Ain't about the people at all.

More and more the whole thing seems to have become some kind of perpetually calculated sham.

---

btw, not sure about the accuracy of that map. My home state of SC looks pretty blue/purple, but is one of the most reliably red states in the nation.

[YoungDemCA]

66. Best post in the thread.

nt

[CreekDog]

87. not really. just a false equivalency post.

a false, false equivalency post.

it wasn't the Democrats that wanted government to shut down, nor government employees to be sent home from work.

it was the Republicans, not all of them, but it was their caucus that created this mess.

this "pox on both their houses" is tiresome.

the furloughed workers know who put them out of their offices and buildings and who was content to let the essential among them work without pay.

any citizen paying attention knows which party was at most willing to raise the debt ceiling and let the government shutdown continue.

who insisted that we pay our debt and open the government without condition?

EVERY ELECTED DEMOCRAT IN OUR GOVERNMENT AND OUR PRESIDENT.

not the Republicans.

both sides fault my ass. but the "best post in the thread" is not going to give Obama any credit.

[coldmountain]

91. The "both sides do it" is a kind of propaganda. There always a better side

[YoungDemCA]

105. Where have the Democrats been the past 30 years?

nt

[Fumesucker]

114. And yet we are now cheering because spending levels below the Ryan budget are the law of the land

Go figure.

[CreekDog]

116. we aren't cheering that part

by no means.

[Fumesucker]

117. Sure we are

It was a great and stunning victory, Pyrrhus would be proud.

[CreekDog]

118. Find one person cheering the sequestration levels

I'm not cheering it, congresspeople aren't cheering that, and one of the reasons Democrats didn't extend the time period of the CR as much as Republicans would've allowed is that they want to revisit the sequester to increase funding to agencies.

What you can't seem to fathom is that liberals and progressives can have simultaneous goals and be fighting different battles at different times.

[Fumesucker]

119. Right, we're just not supposed to mention anything negative about a "great victory"

There's an OP taking anyone who sees this as anything less than an overwhelming victory to task.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023868589

[CreekDog]

122. it was an overwhelming victory against those who would've kept the government shutdown

or defaulted on the debt.

the idea that we can have a decisive battle go our way on the basis of important principles doesn't exclude the possibility that one battle doesn't mean we've won all of them.

it doesn't mean that there aren't future battles to be won or waged.

it doesn't mean all problems are solved.

but winning the argument against those who wanted to keep the government shutdown by getting the American people on our side to reopen it without condition? that's a great victory and we should be pleased at that outcome.

it's not enough, but it is very significant.

[KoKo]

67. Agree......and about SC....

it's always been about the Plantation Class and the Big Money that rules the Politicians.

It's amazing that the Governor comes from a SIKH background.....isn't it? (So one wonders if it's really about RACE or is it about MONEY and BUSINESS BACKGROUND?) In one of the most Race Baiting states in the South. But....it's the Money and the Backing that's always been there. Which is why blaming the people in States like SC only causes them to react and not FIGHT AGAINST those who are in Power. But, that takes Fair Voting and not Electronic Voting Machines (which SC has done little about) and for the MEDIA to report FAIRLY...not possible with the Newspapers there like everywhere having fewer readers and mostly owned by Out of State Conglomerates who have cut budgets and hire staff that's not really connected to the real issues there in the State.

It's everywhere...but, the PTB know how to keep the South under their Heels and in their Clutches because of the Religious Affiliations in those states and that they've felt isolated since Civil War...and have been USED because of that. Keep 'em Down and Dumb...was the program... And, it's more complicated for sure than what I'm saying ...but as I said in my OP ...It's hardly fair to blame everything on the South when we see this crap going on all over the USA as the jobs are going to other countries and our Dem and Republican Parties want even more TRADE DEALS to ship jobs Overseas along with allowing too many HB-1 VISA Applicants to stay and take away more jobs that belong here to our own citizens who can do those jobs.

[coldmountain]

71. They keep themselves down and dumb. If it wasn't for sports there would be few schools in the South

Sometimes, it takes an outsider to see the reality. In Ang Lee's movie "Ride with the Devil", the Confederate guerillas are talking with disgust and disbelief about how the Yankees are building a town in Kansas and the first building they put up is a school!

The South in general has contempt for education and intellectualism and it shows!

[KoKo]

84. Truly it's not the Whole South.. But, it's gotten very bad in the last three decades.

There are pockets in the Cities where education matters...but the rural has been left behind and having the labor force never unionized allowed the Textile Plants and others to move in and then of course they left for China and Southeast Asia in the 90's due to our Offshoring jobs to cheaper and cheaper labor forces in the Third World. The Farming Business in the rural areas which supported so many got taken over by Big Ag Business or House Building during the Boom for Resorts along the Coast and Retirement Communities for folks from other States in pockets inland. Then the Toyotas and others came in for cheap labor...

Presidential Candidate John Edwards tried to address this (as son of a Mill Worker) ...but, sadly we saw what became of him. His message seemed to die with his reputation....but, he was onto something that I think fulfilled itself in the Occupy Wall Street Movement about the "1% and the 99%" of the rest of us in America. Sad that no one else in Politics has taken up his message about that change in America. Bernie Sanders does a bit of it but he isn't from the South.


It's a changing scene.

[coldmountain]

90. It's not that there aren't good Southern people who want to takeup the fight but they have no chance

Roy Barnes
Max Cleland
Cynthia McKinney
Bill McBride
Herman Clark almost beat Gingrich in 1992 in a recount election

[KoKo]

98. I know....those are good people...

I've been here long enough on DU to see what happened to them. And, the politics in the South...is run by the PTB with a long history. But, then we see that it's all over America now. It isn't just the South...which was the point of my post for singling out just one area.

We have a big problem with Money and Power and making fun of people for us Dems just isn't going to make us look better than the alternative.

[Skip Intro]

88. Sometimes an outsider doesn't know what he/she is talking about.

Broad-brush smearing of an entire region of tens of millions of people is nothing short of bigotry.

Btw, the College of Charleston has been around since 1770, 13th oldest institution of higher-education in the nation's history.

[CreekDog]

95. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a Southerner and said the south was full of racists

but I guess he doesn't count.

[YoungDemCA]

108. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s condemnation of American racism was by no means limited to the South

It was just more obvious and brutal in the South.

[CreekDog]

120. Right. I've never said differently

and I've never posted anything that accused the South of racism while absolving other areas of the country of racism.

one thing you're doing now that's bugging me is suggesting that i did.

i didn't.

but let's be frank about the South's unique history within the United States, that's all I've been saying. it doesn't absolve Pennsylvania or Arizona or anywhere else.

[Skip Intro]

110. You just got busted on your bullshit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023868747#post9

[CreekDog]

112. No, the only bullshit is if you are saying that the South didn't have an even worse record on race

than the rest of the country.

but then again, you've consistently taken issue with ANY statement that portrays African Americans as victims of racism.

consistently.

[YoungDemCA]

107. "The South in general has contempt for education and intellectualism and it shows"

You might want to read some history about the South to understand it better .

[joshcryer]

79. That's a vote percentage map.

It shows all the votes either candidate got in a given area. It's kind of misleading.

That map would be more accurate if we had a range voting system (ie, you pick as many candidates as you want or give them scores).

As it stands now we have a simple plurality voting system (+1 vote wins).

[kentauros]

149. However,

it's far better than the standard electoral map most people like to post around here. As if the few hundred electoral votes represent the voting of entire state populations, or that each state is 100% blue or 100% red.

This map at least shows there's variation in the electorate

[lumberjack_jeff]

93. I don't think it's the PTB that are pushing rural and southern stereotypes here.

I think this is our house, and it's up to us to get it in order.

[JNelson6563]

72. The worst are the intellectually

dishonest. Damn but they shit all over discussion here all the time.

Julie

[joshcryer]

76. bvar's map is extremely misleading.

Because of the hues it hides the fact that in the United States almost all elections are simple plurality.



Elections matter.

[KoKo]

94. I think this particular map is a good illustration that we can live near or next door to

folks who think very differently politically from each other. With the partisan divides of the past decades so overwhelming plus the population and racial diversification in the last 40 years or so plus the increased mobility of those seeking employment opportunities out of the areas in which they grew up it is a challenging New America. We can find that our next door neighbors and associates can be very different from us politically. Maybe they listen to Limbaugh and other RW Radio and watch Faux News while we listen to NPR, view MSNBC or PBS with Bill Moyers or maybe watch TYT's and Malloy or others on the Left on the Internet.

But we are much less homogenized than the America of the early and mid to late 20th Century by family identification, religious affiliation and cultural, ethnic background..except in the very Deep South. (I exclude Texas from this). Yet we segment out in our identification politically more than anytime I remember in my lifetime.. This map shows that there's a lot of red...but..you can also see the shades in-between and where the pockets of the ultra party faithful tend to congregate.

That's why I think it shows how some of us here on DU can sometimes feel overwhelmed by the politics of the area we live in.

[joshcryer]

103. I think definitely that the voting system is screwed up.

The colors in the map you posted does show that we're not so split and divided as it appears.

The result of our elections however is that we do wind up split and divided. That's because we're forced to pick between two candidates, and there's really no budging on that. Someone might agree with Obamacare because it gives them good rates but then they vote for the Republican because they're afraid their guns will be taken away, etc.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

77. So that's your reaction to big news of the day?

Mmm-kayyyy

[CreekDog]

113. It's my reaction to the threads complaining about "bashing the South"

While I don't think broad brush criticism of all Southerners is correct, I also think that honesty and accuracy about the South's racial history paint it in such a negative light that some might see the truth as "bashing".

But that is the history. I wish it were different, but it's not.

[coldmountain]

147. What about the history the South is writing these days?The South is bullying the rest of the country

Ex-GOP insider unloads: Blame “neo-Confederate insurrectionists” for shutdown!

"These people are basically neo-Confederate insurrectionists. They are in substantive rebellion against the orderly government of the country. And one of the things I noticed — and it’s something that’s very common in human beings — we all try to mollify or appease the crazy uncle at Thanksgiving dinner. You know, “Don’t make a scene.” Well, I noticed in the last few years of my service on the Hill that a number of Democrats seemed to be afraid of Republicans. And Obama pretty much wasted his first term trying to mollify them. I think he’s finally stumbled upon a strategy that’s better: simply not give them what they demand. Because this is a deliberate strategy to hold the government hostage."

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/08/ex_gop_insider_unloads_blame_neo_confederate_insurrectionists_for_shutdown/

[lumberjack_jeff]

92. I think smug liberals could do worse than to read Orwell's "Road to Wigan's Pier"

To this you have got to add the ugly fact that most middle-class Socialists, while theoretically pining for a class-less society, cling like glue to their miserable fragments of social prestige. I remember my sensations of horror on first attending an I.L.P. branch meeting in London. (It might have been rather different in the North, where the bourgeoisie are less thickly scattered.) Are these mingy little beasts, I thought, the champions of the working class? For every person there, male and female, bore the worst stigmata of sniffish middle-class superiority. If a real working man, a miner dirty from the pit, for instance, had suddenly walked into their midst, they would have been embarrassed, angry, and disgusted; some, I should think, would have fled holding their noses.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2008/05/obama_and_orwell.html

[KoKo]

96. Thanks for the Link...Never heard of it and will check it out!

I'm East Coast...and outta here for tonight. So will check it tomorrow.

[lumberjack_jeff]

97. The book is public domain

you can read it here

http://www.george-orwell.org/The_Road_to_Wigan_Pier/10.html

[Jamastiene]

102. Thank you for the link.

What he says in the excerpt above describes it perfectly.

[coldmountain]

144. All those "smug liberals" put out of work by the Southern based Republican lead government shutdown.

All those "smug liberal" college students and minorities denied their voting rights today in Virginia and several months ago in Alabama, North Carolina and Texas.

All those "smug liberals" defending their country while the Southern based Republican party endangers them.

All those "smug liberals" with relatives and children in the hospital endangered by the Southern based Republican party

All those "smug liberals" who had their kids killed at Newtown because of the Southern based NRA

All those "smug liberals" who gave their lives in the Civil War or during the Freedom Rides.

[lumberjack_jeff]

146. The fact that you live in a place that allows you to feel blameless is a geographic accident.

You don't deserve any more credit for that than I do for living in Washington.

"They" "Them" and "You" when used to describe groups whose only affinity is geography is usually a lame-ass reductionist cheap shot.

The relatively high income democrats on the coasts should donate to the Arizona, Texas, and Oklahoma Democratic parties if you want change.

[coldmountain]

151. I put my time and money into changing the South

Lost several jobs when they found out I was a liberal and put up with much harassment so it's galling to hear how we have kiss Bubba's ass. Liberals have been doing that for my whole adult life and it doesn't work. The South needs to be shamed, make it so the adults can't look their kids in the eyes anymore when they explain that how it is. Make the small town princes feel it in their pockets. Make the Confederate flag hate speech. Southern liberals need to quit defending the South and join the increasing chorus against it.

[johnlucas]

106. I'm born & raised in the South & I say Southerners need to stop whining

If you don't check your own house, then don't get mad when someone else checks it for you.

The South IS the problem.

It's the core of where all this ignorance emanates.

If you look at history the proverbial South didn't just stay in the Deep South.
Texas territory was taken over by Missourians. Southerners kept going westward & northward.
Places like what is now Arizona & Montana. That whole general rural belt that keeps voting for these "Conservative" wackos.
Remember how Arizona was one of the last places to honor Martin Luther King Jr. Day?
Public Enemy wrote a song about it, remember?

The whole cause of the Civil War was the Southerners constantly raiding Natives lands to gain more power & representation in the Congress (not to mention money for themselves).
The whole Missouri Compromise thing with that Free State/Slave State borderline.
Most of this territory conquered ran SOUTH of that borderline. Big ol' giant Texas, Big ol' giant California.
More lands, more slaves, more power, more money.
The 1846 Mexican War was a Southerner's war. They just said "I'm taking this land from the Mexicans & that's that!"

The President was weaker than the Democratic bloc in Congress remember? A bloc that was pro-slave.
The Solid South even then.
Whigs were dead & the slavery-minded Democrats pretty much ran the whole government in the 1830s, 1840s, 1850s.
A bunch of disparate factions came together to oppose this virtual monopoly on power & called themselves the Republican Party.
They ran this anti-slavery guy named Abraham Lincoln for the Presidency in 1860...
...and HE WON!

The Southern power bloc KNEW what he was going to do & immediately split the country in two.
By definition a confederation can never defeat a union so the CSA got its ass whomped.
Slavery is over (at least the chattel kind anyway) & the South was demolished.
Unfortunately the union didn't finish the job & let these jackasses fester.
These jackasses end up poisoning all the accomplishment done as a result of the war & now we have the American Apartheid era AKA Jim Crow as a result of the South's sore loserdom.

Republican Party with the Missouri Compromise issue settled left the Blacks in the dust & started chasing the money thing.
60 years later that leads to a Great Depression.
An odd band of Northern Democrats (created from the initial split of the Democratic-Republican monopoly in the 1820s) were different than their Southern counterparts & they ran this rich dude from New York named Franklin Roosevelt for the Presidency in 1932...
...and HE WON!

Frankie R set the stage for the evil Democratic Party's atonement for its past with the introduction of his New Deal situation...
...which includes the Black folks oddly enough!
4 consecutive terms later, he's about to set the stage for those Blacks to serve in the military as an equal but then he dies.
So his VP Harry Truman does the job for him.
What does the South do? They split along those same Confederate lines, those same Missouri Compromise lines as before in protest.
Democrats are supposed to hurt the Negroes not help them!

A little while later, another odd Northern Democrat from Massachusetts named John Kennedy runs for the Presidency in 1960...
...and HE WON!
Ironically, 100 years after the Civil War goes on here we have this fight for Civil Rights going on in the country.
Predictably the South is split along those same Confederate lines, those same Missouri Compromise lines in protest.
They don't know whether to get behind the Democrats who are starting to warm to the Blacks more & more each day in some circles...
...or to get behind the Republicans who were their mortal enemies & were also helping Blacks through President Eisenhower.

Kennedy sees horrendous terrorist attacks done on little Black girls in a church & says he'll pass the Civil Rights Act but then he's killed.
So his VP Lyndon Johnson does the job for him.
What does the South do? They split along those same Confderate lines, those same Missouri Compromise lines as before in protest.
I SAID Democrats are supposed to hurt the Negroes not help them!
THAT TEARS IT!! This party ain't for me anymore! Kiss my ass Democrats!! I'm OUT!!

The Republican Party had watered down over the decades. They should have been as a whole first & foremost in pushing this kind of legislation but they had been ignoring Blacks' plights for the most part in their reach for the big money.
With the New Deal in place & all this good stuff coming from the newly-reformed Democrats, Republicans knew they would end up ironically like the Whigs again & the Democrats will run everything again (this time for the better).
Instead of just fading out quietly into the night, they began a strategy to court the bigots in exodus from the Democratic Party.
This Southern Strategy bizarrely turned the party which once freed the slaves into a party with a foundation of descendants from the pro-slavery class.
They use this strategy to chase the big money & roll back all the accomplishments done under FDR's New Deal Democrats with the racist generally bigoted mentalities of the South as their fuel.

About 40 years later after this strategy led to THE WORST PRESIDENCY IN AMERICAN HISTORY in George Walker Bush, the de-bigoted Democratic Party ran this guy from Hawaii via Chicago named Barack Hussein Obama II for the Presidency in 2008...
...and HE WON!!
His former pastor Reverend Jeremiah Wright said that The Chickens Are Coming Home To Roost.
The worst nightmare of the Confederate descendants...the descendant of an African slave (through his "White" mother) & an African from Kenya (through his Black father) is now The Leader of the Free World™!!!
The first Black/Multiethnic President ushered in by non-racist Whites, Blacks, & others including those Mexicans the old South fought about 150 years ago.

What does the South do? Yep you knew it. They split along those SAME Confederate lines, those SAME Missouri Compromise lines as 150-200 years ago.
The newest storefront of this Confederate faction is called the Tea Party & they are determined to stop any hint of Progress the first Black President may do.
As you know Blacks who are the First anything tend to make revolutionary change.
Being historically denied & wanting to open it up for the future makes them dangerous to any status quo.
Thurgood Marshall, Jackie Robinson, Jack Johnson, Michael Jackson, Venus & Serena Williams, Tiger Woods, the list goes on & on.

Yeah, so the South is the problem & Southerners need to be THE FIRST to call out this problem.
Quit being defensive & fix your house. Others will help you but you better call out the sludge & filth strung around your house before any work needs to get done.
Quit taking it personal. They're not talking about you when they talk about the proverbial South.
They're talking about the power structure that exists there.

On the other hand, non-Southerners don't need to heap on the snobbery.
Everybody that watches pro wrestling, NASCAR, & hunts isn't necessarily a dimbulb.
I myself watch pro wrestling (used to before it started to suck) & it taught me a lot about real life, strange as that may sound.
I'm not into NASCAR & I don't hunt but I threw those in there to help complete the example.

But this is a minor point.

The major point is Southerners need to start taking out the trash in a public way.
Outside of the backward mentalities that litter this region, it's not a bad place to live.
Let's get rid of that backwardsness so that it helps the entire nation become not such a bad place to live either.
John Lucas

[coldmountain]

132. The Republican party is a regional party that is based on racism and religious intolerance

How can people in that region expect others to not judge and not intervene especially when that regional party has basically declared war on all that is good about America and Western Civilization in general?

[DoBotherMe]

155. Excellent essay!

Dana ; )

[AverageJoe90]

161. Lots of good stuff here.

TBH, speaking as a white Southern guy(Dallas/Fort Worth raised), it does appear to me that some Southern whites DO remain a little too defensive even in this era, even if they're *trying* to understand. Yes, I think we can all agree that the majority of Southern folks are decent......but the problem of racism, especially structural racism, remains, and much more so than many realize, and the Tea Party is undeniably largely a Southern construct.

But, indeed, if we work together, then we can ALL enjoy a better future.....

[johnlucas]

162. I understand it. It's the 'nobody talks bad about my family but me' kind of thing.

But that mentality doesn't solve the problem.
They're not done yet. This shutdown was just a taste.
They want Civil War II even though the results will be even worse for them than last time.

The Confederates are just not satisfied with the idea of the United States of America.
Their unity only comes from oppressing others.
They need that social hierarchical structure & they haven't come to terms with losing that in over 150 years.
It's that real.

Inidividuals in the region may have changed but the root of Southern society STILL operates from the same place.
They're only being kept in check by the national government.
Which is why you hear so many of them want to see "smaller government".
The rich want it for less regulation, the racists want it so that they roll out their vaunted hierarchy in full fashion unchallenged.

As long as Southerners remain defensive over this criticism, nothing will substantially change in this region.
Maybe when others rail against Southern racist mentalities, they may be talking about your father & your mother, your brothers & your sisters. And it's understandable that you want to protect your family who may still operate under those backwards views.

But the plain simple fact is your father, your mother, your brothers & sisters are WRONG.
And their views are taking the whole country down the WRONG path.
Might be hard to correct family. You might be shunned from the family. Maybe disowned even. It's complicated, I know.
But it must be done if this thing is ever gonna change.

Silent shame & disgust ain't enough. Even occasional chastisement ain't enough.
It's a numbers game & those racist got to learn that they're outnumbered EVEN IN THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES.
EVEN IN THEIR OWN BACKYARD.

Time for some honesty.
You know they always say the truth hurts.
We got some salve for you to treat those wounds.
John Lucas

[Le Taz Hot]

121. I've been saying this for a LONG time now on DU

re rural areas. The insults that are thrown out by the geographical elites gets my blood boiling, not to mention the ignorant, intolerant POV about rural dwellers. We need to KEEP confronting these issues until the seemingly deaf PTB in the mainstream Democratic party gets it through their pointy little heads. We don't win the rural areas because we're not IN the rural areas. The vast majority of the time they won't even RUN a candidate, then we get accused of "only voting Republican."

[Phentex]

128. This is what I don't understand...

if the answer is to further alienate people in rural areas, how will that help anything? Where is the responsibility of those who prefer to sit back and bash southerners? Why aren't they being blamed for doing nothing about the problem they are highlighting?

I give money to candidates in other states (as well as my own) because I know how important it is to try and make a difference. Why would anyone think a boycott of said areas is a better idea?

Idiot George Bush won twice. Did we tell everyone to give up and move to Canada? No, we worked at making a change. That's what we need to do everywhere.

[coldmountain]

131. The only changes in the South have been from demographics and not from converting Bubba

For starters, a boycott would pressure big business which is less Tea party oriented to help roll back voter suppression and help implement the ACA. Rolling back voter suppression would help Democrats use the demographic gains in Hispanics, young people, immigrants and maximize the African American vote.

[Phentex]

134. How would you make this happen?

I have asked repeatedly. A boycott has been discussed over and over. Who will lead it? Why hasn't it happened? If Michael Moore can't do it, who can?

Please explain how you would make this work.

[coldmountain]

141. Maybe the next government shut down in February, it can be started.

We can go after bagger districts first. I think people are pissed enough from these shutdowns and all these Tea party shenanigans that they would make an effort this time.

[Phentex]

158. That does not sound very specific.

I was hoping you had suggestions.

Who will start it?

[coldmountain]

160. The problem is that it will hurt many poor people in the South but the Tea party also hurts them

There are trade offs and these trade offs will hurt poor people in the South in the short run. In the big scheme of things, a lost vacation in South Carolina will turn into a vacation in Maryland. Instead of buying an Alabama made Honda Pilot they buy a Detroit made Grand Cherokee. Instead of shopping at Wal Mart they buy off Costco or a small local store.

The African American community will have to be OK with this, they will be the tip of the spear and the immediate victims.

[Phentex]

163. In other words...

you have no concrete ideas. Ok, got it!

[malokvale77]

159. "Idiot George Bush"

A highly educated "Connecticut Yankee"

Blame the Northeast for giving us this disaster. LOL

Edit to add: Before Bush, Texas was pretty blue.

[coldmountain]

139. The rural areas are becoming increasingly irrelevant,soon we can win with just the suburbs & cities

The farmers and ranchers who got farm subsidies for decades but would rather give them up to screw African Americans out of food stamps made me not care about them anymore. Or the cattle people in the Dakotas who proudly had Republican representatives vote against help for Hurricane Sandy victims, I don't care and increasingly more and more Democrats won't care about them. They declared war on us first and Democrats need to take a very hardline with them.

[Le Taz Hot]

142. Your remarks are sounding very "47 percent"-like.

There is so much wrong with this screed I'm not sure where to start except to say that you are so monumentally wrong as to rival the ignorance of the teaklanners.

The VAST MAJORITY of farmers, particularly family farms, DO NOT get gigantic subsidies -- those go to Big Agra, the ones MANY of our Representatives, from BOTH parties, are beholden to.

". . . but would rather give them up to screw African Americans out of food stamps. . . "

Honest to goddess I've no idea what that means. This is what I can tell you. Sometimes I spend time at one of our local food banks to help out. If you're there during the day what you see is farmers, large and small, showing up to donate produce. Lots of it. My guess is that donations from farmers are easily 60% of the food received by this organization and this organization feeds a LOT of people 7 days a week. I've been around farmers. No, we often don't agree with each other politically but all-in-all I find that they're good, honest, hard-working people that are often the first ones there when you need a hand. I'm not sure where you got your idea of what a farmer is but it seems to not be grounded in reality. Here's one of our more famous local farmers:

David Mas Masumoto
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mas_Masumoto

and this is his farm:
http://www.masumoto.com/

Why don't you take the time and go out and talk to some sometime. You might be surprised.

LTH

[Douglas Carpenter]

123. the county I grew up in in Western PA (Erie) went for Obama in 2008 and 2012 - but my little town on

Last edited Thu Oct 17, 2013, 04:19 PM - Edit history (1)

the edge of Erie County is full of gun nuts and Tea Party crazies. In fact most of small town and rural PA is. Basically, if there is a divide between voting patterns it is mostly an urban versus rural divide. Basically the closer one lives to a city center the more likely they are to vote Democratic even in an otherwise Southern Republican strongholds. The further one is from a city center - the more likely they are to vote Republican even in an otherwise Northern Democratic strongholds. There are exceptions to this. But pretty much that is where the divide is. So, getting rid of the South is not an option anyway. But even if it were - There is still no way of getting rid of the pockets that are full of right-wing reactionaries.

[coldmountain]

130. Southern suburbs vote solidly Republican while the rest of the nation not as much

Ons thing kills Pennsylvania is off year elections, many of those suburban soccer moms don't come out like the gun nuts.

[Demo_Chris]

124. When Hitchens began his series of debates on religion...

He went to Southern religious universities-- thinking he was bringing the fight to the belly of the ignorant beast. Instead, he discovered that the people of the south were neither as ignorant nor as dogmatic as he had believed. That has been my experience as well. But even were it not, Hitchens did not begin his debates by insulting and belittling his audence, and neither should we.

Yes, there is racism and ignorance and talk radio conservatism, but the primary demographic practicing these things is the same here as it is elsewhere. If there is one group that most deserves to be written off as a lost cause it is not people from the South, but older people from every region.

[coldmountain]

138. The South is already irrelevant to Democrats winning POTUS elections

Democrats have proven they can win without having any Dixie votes at all. Having the adopted Northern states of Virginia and Florida is a big plus. This means no more "balanced tickets" with Southerners on it like LBJ, Bentsen, Gore, etc. Balanced tickets now will have Hispanics or African Americans on them.

If it wasn't for the filibuster, the South would already be irrelevant in the Senate. The day is coming when the South will have very little political power.

[LanternWaste]

143. For the most part, if I read an OP which focuses on criticizing the south

For the most part, if I read an OP which focuses on criticizing the south, I'm compelled to pat the poster on the head, say "bless your little heart... you really should read some intro books to both sociology and history before you sound even more bigoted and irrational." (Studies in Regional Sociology by John Reed, and Through the Lens by Mary Reddin are wonderful primers)

Unfortunately, reading the relevant materials takes far too much time away from assigning blame based on lack of information, and I do realize the visceral desire many have to point fingers at particular regions and pretend to themselves they've accomplished something both unbiased and wonderful... and who am I to deny someone their sacred cows and personal myths?

[coldmountain]

145. I guess we shouldn't have had the Civil War, Freedom Rides or Civil Rights acts?

When does the political correctness in regards to the South end? Does waving the Confederate flag in front of the White House while a black family lives there during a Southern led government shutdown finally get the world's attention?

[KoKo]

150. That was a terrorist act committed by what group and with what motives?

Think deeper than race. Think of it as a "stunt for profit politically and financially." Who profits? Who is behind those who profit from hate? What benefit do they get? Things aren't always what they seem.

[coldmountain]

152. It's not deeper than race as far the Tea party crowd is concerned.

Now the Koch brother, Pope, ALEC and Murdoch might use these useful idiots against us but Wall Street and global corporations aren't basically racist but the Tea party demonstrably is and the Confederacy was as well.

[KoKo]

148. Recommend.

[kentauros]

153. Here's the website source of this map

and a further analysed version based on population densities:

The Purple Election Map

Software engineer and illustrator Chris Howard created this map of the presidential election results adjusted by population density to produce a map that shows a far different picture of the country than we normally see in the simple red and blue electoral map. Mr. Howard posted his map on Facebook this weekend with a note explaining that “most of the country is some shade of purple, a varied blend of Democrat blue and Republican.”

“America really looks like this,” wrote Mr. Howard. “What really stands out is how red the nation seems to be when you do not take the voting population into account; when you do so many of those vast red mid-west blocks fade into pale pink and lavender (very low population).”

Though people have long been creating purple variations of the electoral map, Mr. Howard said he was inspired to create his map by another series of maps made by Mark Newman, a physics professor at the University of Michigan’s Department of Physics and Center for the Study of Complex Systems. Mr. Newman’s maps used the electoral maps to create cartograms showing the size of different states based on population rather than land area. To create his map, Mr. Howard said he used “the actual numbers of votes for each party overlaid with population maps from Texas Tech University and other sources.”

View a larger image of Mr. Howard’s map compared with the electoral map, a map showing results by county and a third map that displays a shade indicating the percentage won by either party rather than simple red or blue below.

Now you can better see the "islands" of blue in Texas and the South

[Dash87]

154. I would rather have "uneducated but down to earth" than "educated douche bag" any day.

Furthermore, having an education doesn't make you smart. I've seen many self-described "intelligent" nose-in-the-air people who were in fact idiots.

The South can't be any worse. I would rather see open bigotry that can be challenged than hidden bigotry that a population pretends doesn't exist. The sure mark of an idiot is that they think all others are idiots.

[Liberalynn]

156. You make some good points

It isn't just the South. I live in Western NY and am surrounded by the Tea Pukers. There are also some who are hightly educated. That unfortunately is not a safe guard against racism, greed and willful ignorance. I say willful because they chose to over look the logic and facts because it doesn't fit their own narrative.

The one's who get me are the one's who will go out of the way to say they are not racist then they start ranting that Obama was born in Kenya and how he is secretly Muslim. I think there is are elements in the TP that are just crazy and misguided and others who have been brainwashed by Fox, and still others who are just plain racist and greedy but your right it is not just a Southern Thing.