General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis is a time of shame and sorrow. It is not a day for politics.
Last edited Sun Sep 29, 2013, 01:31 AM - Edit history (5)
http://www.vsotd.com/Article.php?art_num=4651
AND hat tip to Robb for his original post in the GCRA group: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12624998
Except as noted, the following words are those of Robert F. Kennedy:
[font size=3]"This is a time of shame and sorrow. It is not a day for politics."
"I have saved this one opportunity, my only event of today, to speak briefly to you about the mindless menace of violence in America which again stains our land and every one of our lives."
"It is not the concern of any one race.The victims of the violence are black and white, rich and poor, young and old, famous and unknown."
"They are, most important of all, human beings whom other human beings loved and needed. No one - no matter where he lives or what he does - can be certain who will suffer from some senseless act of bloodshed. And yet it goes on and on and on in this country of ours."
"Why? What has violence ever accomplished? What has it ever created? No martyr's cause has ever been stilled by an assassin's bullet."
"No wrongs have ever been righted by riots and civil disorders. A sniper is only a coward, not a hero; and an uncontrolled, uncontrollable mob is only the voice of madness, not the voice of reason."
"Whenever any American's life is taken by another American unnecessarily - whether it is done in the name of the law or in the defiance of the law, by one man or a gang, in cold blood or in passion, in an attack of violence or in response to violence - whenever we tear at the fabric of the life which another man has painfully and clumsily woven for himself and his children, the whole nation is degraded."
"Among free men," said Abraham Lincoln, "there can be no successful appeal from the ballot to the bullet; and those who take such appeal are sure to lose their cause and pay the costs."
"Some look for scapegoats, others look for conspiracies, but this much is clear: violence breeds violence, repression brings retaliation, and only a cleansing of our whole society can remove this sickness from our soul."
April 5, 1968 [/font size]
[font size=4]Wake up, America, to a new call for comprehensive measures to reduce violence in America. (NYC_SKP)[/font size]
brer cat
(24,662 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Better to pool our resources, no?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)And he speaks to us still.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)One thing that comes to my conspiratorial mind is that it isnt a coincidence that these three extremely important friends of the people (enemies of the 1%) were assassinated.
IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)And the first thing I thought the first time I ever heard (then Senator) Obama speak was, "He's our Bobby returned to us." That might seem silly to some, but it was my honest reaction and has much to do with my feelings for Barack. Both men, really.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)He was a man filled with keen vision and immense compassion, for
a better tomorrow, for everyone not just a few rich assholes.
His clear blue eyes said it all, when I shook his hand.
tweeternik
(255 posts)truly a kind, caring, gentle soul. Deeply missed still. 😢
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Just days, I guess, before that fateful day in LA, he made a stop at our local mall.
Even to my young self, it was devastating to have lost him so soon after King.
I don't know if our country will ever recover from the loss.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,830 posts)A very powerful message.
It's too bad that the folks who really need to see and hear this, won't.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)calimary
(81,608 posts)There's so much talk about bullying and how bad it is. How 'bout we look at where some of the REAL bullying is originating? From the gun goons - who think their "right" is somehow sacrosanct and trumps any other right claimed by anyone else.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Why are guns seen to be "cool"? Why is "power" seen as a virtue?
SMH.
So sad...
juajen
(8,515 posts)Violence in this country is overwhelmingly caused by men.
We test men all the time for low testosterone levels. Why do we not test for high testosterone levels? Is research being done on this subject, and I'm just missing it?
I mean, it never fails that when a woman blows up, it is often, jokingly or not, blamed on her time of the month, in other words, her hormones are out of whack. Men have the same hormones as women, I do believe. What say you, DU?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Quite possibly diet, environmental toxins, and other factors are at work.
I say lets leave no stone unturned in finding and curing the root causes of violence, gun violence and all forms of violence.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)by parents that see their role as far different from the women, and by a government that still today uses them for cannon fodder, and companies that see them as nothing but an expense. In other words, the cause may well be outside their control without some significant effort to address what they have been taught all their lives. Easier to point a finger, however...
Just ask Sheryl Sandberg - as she points out, from very early on, even on a playground, a girl who is assertive may well be called "bossy", where it is used as a pejorative. A boy behaving similarly becomes a piece of meat to watch during baseball or football recruiting season.
Men commit suicide at over 4x the rate of women too, and at an increasing rate over the past 10 years. I don't hear a lot of people getting all worked up over that.
And when dr's test for testosterone, they DO test for excess levels, btw. It's a range on the lab notes, all of them.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)That we test men and lower their testosterone?
Good luck finding 5 men in the country who would consent to it.
juajen
(8,515 posts)We will never stop these sprees without some real research being done.
As to the war issue, I agree that war makes for really dangerous bed fellows. I have a friend whose husband had nightmares continuously and she had to calm him down at least weekly, if not nightly. She was afraid he would be violent with her, and eventually, they separated. What a shame that was. We send them to fight for our "freedoms", I guess that's the freedom to charge what we like for oil and gas, then deny them adequate psychiatric help to get over the trauma. Not even taking into account that they are so messed up, it is difficult or impossible for them to go back to work.
I don't know what the answer is, but, I know that a reasonable man is not going to equate sexuality with a hormone level that is out of balance. Of course, that's the problem. They hide any symptoms if they can, and doctors, being men, are hesitant to go there.
Ever heard of a woman going through menopause? "She's hormonal" is a common phrase. You rarely hear "he's hormonal", do you?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)We need more light on the subject of violence, and less heat.
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)And I say that as a male. Here is an interesting article on this topic.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/200907/sex-violence-and-hormones
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Testosterone and human aggression: an evaluation of the challenge hypothesis.
Archer J.
Department of Psychology, University of Central Lancashire, Preston, Lancashire PR12HE, UK. [email protected]
Abstract
Research on testosterone-behavior relationships in humans is assessed in relation to a version of the challenge hypothesis, originally proposed to account for testosterone-aggression associations in monogamous birds. Predictions were that that testosterone would rise at puberty to moderate levels, which supported reproductive physiology and behavior. Sexual arousal and challenges involving young males would raise testosterone levels further. In turn, this would facilitate direct competitive behavior, including aggression. When males are required to care for offspring, testosterone levels will decrease. Testosterone levels will also be associated with different behavioral profiles among men, associated with life history strategies involving emphasis on either mating or parental effort. Most of these predictions were supported by the review of current research, although most studies were not designed to specifically test the challenge hypothesis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16483890
See part in bold. Is it possible that through activities like animal husbandry or gardening; caretaking of some living thing, that young boys could become less prone to violence?
I taught in a juvenile hall facility for four years, long term incarcerants age 14-17, and I taught them to care for the planet, and we had a garden.
I think it just might work.
Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)We ought to hang our heads in shame. Thanks of posting.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I saw him on his campaign swing through California just a day or two before he was murdered.
G_j
(40,372 posts)Robb
(39,665 posts)RFK's most poignant speech on gun control, artfully re-edited to include no mention of guns.
Brilliant gun trollery. From a GD host, no less. Bra-vo.
Edited to add: stalking me still? http://www.democraticunderground.com/12624998
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Robb
(39,665 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)But at least it's not a picture of Mila Kunis in a bikini, because that would be "sick" and deeply offensive
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)How do you get that out of anything in the OP?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Or is that not the same sort of profound unacceptable outrage as, say, a thread with pictures of attractive celebrities?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I don't see a point that warrants a response. So I guess "no".
In any event, there's nothing in my OP that suggests anything but a need to come together to address violence.
I'm on board. Are you?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Pretty transparent.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)His selective use of particular lines is no more or less transparent or valid than my choice of lines.
As I elected to exclude the pictures of the DC shooter and the gun nuts, I also excluded the lines that Robb chose to go along with those pictures.
Thus, "unnecessary".
I see nothing wrong with our wanting to place emphasis on different aspects of a 1,012 word speech.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)You edited the OP, so at least there's that.
However, I do find it fascinating, in looking at this or that thread you self-deleted right after newtown, what to some minds constitutes and does not constitute an "offensive and outrageous" thread, to wit:
Thread praising a brand of shotgun immediately after a mass shooting of 6 year olds - OK.
attractive actress in a bikini - offensive, disgusting and "sick".
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)The post-Newtown thread was in protest of the admin's decision to allow gun threads into GD.
This is well known to anyone who was paying attention. It would also be obvious to anyone who looked at my posting history pre Newtown that it was out of character, consistent with posting as a protest.
At Skinner's request and in respect to the community, I self deleted.
Most understood and thanked me for killing the post, but a few won't let it go.
Anyone who chooses to bring that up over and over again with the intention of making it look like anything more than a protest of the admin decision is, IMHO, just being obnoxious.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Well, it was probably for the best, as well as for the best to edit this OP.
As it is, I'd much rather see a picture of Mila Kunis- or Brad Pitt, for that matter- than one of a shotgun. It seems I'm "sick" that way.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I thought it might have been something I did with a bikini pic.
I know what you mean, we have to be careful about posting provocative pictures of good looking people, I guess it's a weird form of tolerance.
I'm with you.
Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #74)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)You might want to read the entire speech, it has 1,012 words. There's a link in my OP.
Robb chose his words with purpose, and his pics, and I chose my words and pics with a different purpose, no less valid IMHO.
Schema Thing
(10,283 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)From the same speech.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Here's my favorite cheap thrills fight video played by a pair of felines. It has suspense, menace, all the prerequisites for drama.
There's sexual betrayal, unwanted pregnancy, vulgar language, a coward, a woman done wrong, hatred, vengeance, threats of violence and police, even.
I come down on the side of the female feline. Get that two timing scrub but good, GRRR!:
This has been another post from:
Good night all.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Some people can be absolutely shameless.
marble falls
(57,537 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)yewberry
(6,530 posts)Why would you edit Robb's thread and re-post it under your own name in GD?
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Why did you repost this and selectively edit it?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)The other post was in a closed group.
And B: to remove the unnecessary parts, there's no reason to sully the central message.
Peace.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)The definition, for purposes of that group, is: If you think the solution to gun violence is more guns, then you're a gun nut.
Statement of Purpose
Discuss how to enact progressive gun control reform in a supportive environment. The group serves as a safe haven in which to mobilize supporters in support of measures reducing gun violence by changing laws, culture and practice at the municipal, state, and federal levels. While there is no single solution to the tragic epidemic of gun violence, members agree that more guns are not the solution to gun violence, and are expected to be supportive of the policies of progressive gun control reform organizations.
It's not as complicated or restrictive as some of our "RKBA enthusiasts" like to pretend it is.
yewberry
(6,530 posts)and noted your edits.
I think this was a really, really lousy thing to do.
Robb
(39,665 posts)Just a little tightening up here and there! You know those Kennedy brothers, they weren't good at public speaking.
I mean, why would anyone care that in the speech he said
What possible reason could he have to ....
...oh.
...oh, is that the Navy Yard shooter with a shotgun? Is it the same kind the OP praised what, two days after the Sandy Hook shootings?
In fairness, it's entirely possible the bodies of those children were technically (if not metaphorically) cold by then, so no foul, amirite??
Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)
WillyT This message was self-deleted by its author.
demmiblue
(36,920 posts)IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)Considering this beauty from December 2012:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022002711
(And yes, that was sarcasm...)
IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)I had no idea. Honestly. Last thing I would've expected. I don't care if admin did decide to permit a free-for-all; we're still liable for our individual behavior regardless.
I told Skp he should've explained he was reposting Robb's work with his own revisions, and that it would've been better to have asked permission first as well. Perhaps he omitted that last point knowing permission would be refused, as I can well understand why. I actually liked his OP best but that's entirely beside the point - it never should've been done in the first place.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I had no idea. Honestly. Last thing I would've expected. I don't care if admin did decide to permit a free-for-all; we're still liable for our individual behavior regardless.
I told Skp he should've explained he was reposting Robb's work with his own revisions, and that it would've been better to have asked permission first as well. Perhaps he omitted that last point knowing permission would be refused, as I can well understand why. I actually liked his OP best but that's entirely beside the point - it never should've been done in the first place.
I think mine was an improvement, too. I don't think the pictures of gun nuts served RFK's words well, so I created my own mash up of RFK's speech, using most of the same pics rob used.
That's not theft, that's just adaptation and improvement over prior art. This happens all the time in the real world, and legally.
There is no ownership issue here, the words are RFK's.
IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)grew more apparent by the minute.
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)Robb
(39,665 posts)Although passive-aggressiveness is not expressly forbidden in the SOP, so this is probably fine.
BainsBane
(53,137 posts)That's not cool.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Given the day after MLK's assassination at the City Club of Cleveland.
It ends thusly (emphasis is mine):
...Our lives on this planet are too short and the work to be done too great to let this spirit flourish any longer in our land. Of course we cannot vanquish it with a program, nor with a resolution.
But we can perhaps remember, if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as do we, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and in happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can.
Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men, and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our own hearts brothers and countrymen once again.
http://www.vsotd.com/Article.php?art_num=4651
BainsBane
(53,137 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)He posted in the GCRA closed group. I got rid of the pics of gun nuts and reposted it here in GD for full access.
The words are RFK's, the pics are from the Internet, everything is public domain.
But credit to Robb for his original OP!
yewberry
(6,530 posts)What a nasty thins to do. I have lost all respect for you today.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I just think they ought to be heard by more people, thus a new post in GD.
OP edited now to include attribution to RFK and to Robb's OP.
http://www.vsotd.com/Article.php?art_num=4651
yewberry
(6,530 posts)What a total crap thing to do, lifting someone else's post, and "cleaning up" Bobby Kennedy's speech in order to shine a better light on your own position on guns.
You asked someone upthread if they were on board. My answer: not if I have to sit next to you.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)You might like to check the two OPs.
What I did was leave out the pic of gun nuts and the pic of the DC shooter, no need to glorify either of them.
I also left out a line that Robb used that worked well for his picture of the shooter, that I didn't choose to use.
Instead, I provided a link to the ENTIRE speech, something I believe Robb failed to do.
yewberry
(6,530 posts)"Yet we seemingly tolerate a rising level of violence that ignores our common humanity and our claims to civilization alike. We calmly accept newspaper reports of civilian slaughter in far-off lands. We glorify killing on movie and television screens and call it entertainment. We make it easy for men of all shades of sanity to acquire whatever weapons and ammunition they desire."
freshwest
(53,661 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)cliffordu
(30,994 posts)eppur_se_muova
(36,317 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)Your selective editing of Bobby Kennedy's words is perhaps the lowest thing I have ever seen on this website.
You make Congresscritters look good by comparison.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Any excerpt would be selective, wouldn't it? Is one selection more legitimate than another?
Here:
It is not the concern of any one race. The victims of the violence are black and white, rich and poor, young and old, famous and unknown. They are, most important of all, human beings whom other human beings loved and needed. No one - no matter where he lives or what he does - can be certain who will suffer from some senseless act of bloodshed. And yet it goes on and on and on in this country of ours.
Why? What has violence ever accomplished? What has it ever created? No martyr's cause has ever been stilled by an assassin's bullet.
No wrongs have ever been righted by riots and civil disorders. A sniper is only a coward, not a hero; and an uncontrolled, uncontrollable mob is only the voice of madness, not the voice of reason.
Whenever any American's life is taken by another American unnecessarily - whether it is done in the name of the law or in the defiance of the law, by one man or a gang, in cold blood or in passion, in an attack of violence or in response to violence - whenever we tear at the fabric of the life which another man has painfully and clumsily woven for himself and his children, the whole nation is degraded.
"Among free men," said Abraham Lincoln, "there can be no successful appeal from the ballot to the bullet; and those who take such appeal are sure to lose their cause and pay the costs."
Yet we seemingly tolerate a rising level of violence that ignores our common humanity and our claims to civilization alike. We calmly accept newspaper reports of civilian slaughter in far-off lands. We glorify killing on movie and television screens and call it entertainment. We make it easy for men of all shades of sanity to acquire whatever weapons and ammunition they desire.
Too often we honor swagger and bluster and wielders of force; too often we excuse those who are willing to build their own lives on the shattered dreams of others. Some Americans who preach non-violence abroad fail to practice it here at home. Some who accuse others of inciting riots have by their own conduct invited them.
Some look for scapegoats, others look for conspiracies, but this much is clear: violence breeds violence, repression brings retaliation, and only a cleansing of our whole society can remove this sickness from our soul.
For there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. This is the slow destruction of a child by hunger, and schools without books and homes without heat in the winter.
This is the breaking of a man's spirit by denying him the chance to stand as a father and as a man among other men. And this too afflicts us all.
I have not come here to propose a set of specific remedies nor is there a single set. For a broad and adequate outline we know what must be done. When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies, to be met not with cooperation but with conquest; to be subjugated and mastered.
We learn, at the last, to look at our brothers as aliens, men with whom we share a city, but not a community; men bound to us in common dwelling, but not in common effort. We learn to share only a common fear, only a common desire to retreat from each other, only a common impulse to meet disagreement with force. For all this, there are no final answers.
Yet we know what we must do. It is to achieve true justice among our fellow citizens. The question is not what programs we should seek to enact. The question is whether we can find in our own midst and in our own hearts that leadership of humane purpose that will recognize the terrible truths of our existence.
We must admit the vanity of our false distinctions among men and learn to find our own advancement in the search for the advancement of others. We must admit in ourselves that our own children's future cannot be built on the misfortunes of others. We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.
Our lives on this planet are too short and the work to be done too great to let this spirit flourish any longer in our land. Of course we cannot vanquish it with a program, nor with a resolution.
But we can perhaps remember, if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as do we, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and in happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can.
Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men, and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our own hearts brothers and countrymen once again.v
Moostache
(9,897 posts)The entirety of the sentiments RFK put forth are still so resonant today that it makes me cry inside.
gopiscrap
(23,768 posts)sheshe2
(84,070 posts)Thanks, SKP.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)From the same speech, the same day, April 5, 1968
We calmly accept newspaper reports of civilian slaughter in far-off lands.
We glorify killing on movie and television screens and call it entertainment.
We make it easy for men of all shades of sanity to acquire whatever weapons and ammunition they desire."
Except that, today, we don't have to look so much to far-off lands for reports of civilian slaughter.
But good try.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Also the point of this OP seems to be getting lost with peronality conflicts here at DU.
You may want to edit again, making sure that neither yours, nor Robb's, excerpts are the primary language in this OP. But a full transcript with a link for people to verify it and get this thread back to where it belongs,
The issue is the insanity in our society. I remember some years back being struck with horror by this contrast, but no more. It is the truth of so many human failures, that we have to address:
The three children on the left still have the breath of life, barely, but they are alive. The entity on the right was never alive.
What is important, America? Will you deny what you are, can you continue to turn your eyes away from the tools of death in which you feel so much pride?
This that you wrote:
'..today, we don't have to look so much to far-off lands for reports of civilian slaughter.'
You have nailed the problem we are suffering from. Desiring the power to intimidate others, does not support civil society and democracy. It utterly destroys it from top to bottom.
I feel we are being punished. Not by foreign enemies or a vengeful creator. We are being punished by simply being what we are.
It was inevitable that a nation that based its security on deadly force, would experience the same.
JHMO.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I'm encouraged that you can see in the shallowness of our consumerism, among other drawbacks, the roots of our disease or, if not the roots, then the connectedness of all of these things. It's not just guns, it's despair and hopelessness, it's evidence of dysfunction in our values system.
It is a disease of our collective soul, it's endemic to America and it seems to be chronic and worsening.
We've lost our way.
RFK gave spoke those words over 45 years ago and they speak to our condition even more today than they did then.
Robb
(39,665 posts)If that was your hat, you must have to squat to brush your teeth.
This is the lowest you've sunk, gunner.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Last edited Sun Sep 29, 2013, 10:24 AM - Edit history (1)
This is a time of shame and sorrow. It is not a day for politics. I have saved this one opportunity, my only event of today, to speak briefly to you about the mindless menace of violence in America which again stains our land and every one of our lives.
It is not the concern of any one race. The victims of the violence are black and white, rich and poor, young and old, famous and unknown. They are, most important of all, human beings whom other human beings loved and needed. No one - no matter where he lives or what he does - can be certain who will suffer from some senseless act of bloodshed. And yet it goes on and on and on in this country of ours.
Why? What has violence ever accomplished? What has it ever created? No martyr's cause has ever been stilled by an assassin's bullet.
No wrongs have ever been righted by riots and civil disorders. A sniper is only a coward, not a hero; and an uncontrolled, uncontrollable mob is only the voice of madness, not the voice of reason.
Whenever any American's life is taken by another American unnecessarily - whether it is done in the name of the law or in the defiance of the law, by one man or a gang, in cold blood or in passion, in an attack of violence or in response to violence - whenever we tear at the fabric of the life which another man has painfully and clumsily woven for himself and his children, the whole nation is degraded.
"Among free men," said Abraham Lincoln, "there can be no successful appeal from the ballot to the bullet; and those who take such appeal are sure to lose their cause and pay the costs."
Yet we seemingly tolerate a rising level of violence that ignores our common humanity and our claims to civilization alike. We calmly accept newspaper reports of civilian slaughter in far-off lands. We glorify killing on movie and television screens and call it entertainment. We make it easy for men of all shades of sanity to acquire whatever weapons and ammunition they desire.
Too often we honor swagger and bluster and wielders of force; too often we excuse those who are willing to build their own lives on the shattered dreams of others. Some Americans who preach non-violence abroad fail to practice it here at home. Some who accuse others of inciting riots have by their own conduct invited them.
Some look for scapegoats, others look for conspiracies, but this much is clear: violence breeds violence, repression brings retaliation, and only a cleansing of our whole society can remove this sickness from our soul.
For there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. This is the slow destruction of a child by hunger, and schools without books and homes without heat in the winter.
This is the breaking of a man's spirit by denying him the chance to stand as a father and as a man among other men. And this too afflicts us all.
I have not come here to propose a set of specific remedies nor is there a single set. For a broad and adequate outline we know what must be done. When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies, to be met not with cooperation but with conquest; to be subjugated and mastered.
We learn, at the last, to look at our brothers as aliens, men with whom we share a city, but not a community; men bound to us in common dwelling, but not in common effort. We learn to share only a common fear, only a common desire to retreat from each other, only a common impulse to meet disagreement with force. For all this, there are no final answers.
Yet we know what we must do. It is to achieve true justice among our fellow citizens. The question is not what programs we should seek to enact. The question is whether we can find in our own midst and in our own hearts that leadership of humane purpose that will recognize the terrible truths of our existence.
We must admit the vanity of our false distinctions among men and learn to find our own advancement in the search for the advancement of others. We must admit in ourselves that our own children's future cannot be built on the misfortunes of others. We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.
Our lives on this planet are too short and the work to be done too great to let this spirit flourish any longer in our land. Of course we cannot vanquish it with a program, nor with a resolution.
But we can perhaps remember, if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as do we, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and in happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can.
Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men, and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our own hearts brothers and countrymen once again.
http://www.vsotd.com/Article.php?art_num=4651
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Samantha
(9,314 posts)I have read that the speech he gave following Martin Luther King's assassination was one Robert Kennedy composed on the spot. That truly is remarkable. I think there have probably only been a handful of speeches of such magnitude rendered in that fashion; so few would be capable of doing so. But it also denotes that the words are from the heart and not just some paragraphs put together by a speechwriter.
His brother's assassination devastated me. Robert Kennedy's I simply could not believe. It has always been my belief he ran for President to find out more about his brother's assassination and who was involved. I believe he felt that was the only place from which he could acquire the information he desperately sought.
Martin Luther King's assassination hurt and saddened me but it did not surprise me. I think that must have been because he himself expected it would happen one day and voiced that probability openly.
Three men in our history who we will always remember but know can never be replaced -- Martin Luther King, John F. Kennedy and his brother Robert.
Sam
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Whereas this was given the following day, in Cleveland: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Mindless_Menace_of_Violence
Both are very moving and the first brings tears to my eyes every time.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)I remember no one wanted him to go in and give that speech to let the people know of Martin Luther King's assassination because they thought it was too dangerous for him. He thought he could talk to the people in a manner that would console and quell a riot from happening. He was truly a man of courage to do what he thought was the right thing as opposed to the safe thing. Although he was told there was no guarantee his safety could be protected, he went anyway.
Sam
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts).
In Indianapolis the news of King's death caused concern among representatives from Kennedy's campaign and city officials, who feared for his safety and the possibility of a riot. After talking with reporters at the Indianapolis airport, Kennedy canceled a stop at his campaign headquarters and continued on to the rally site, where a crowd had gathered to hear him speak. Both Frank Mankiewicz, Kennedy's press secretary, and speechwriter Adam Walinsky drafted notes immediately before the rally for Kennedy's use, but Kennedy refused Walinsky's notes, instead using some that he had likely written on the ride over; Mankiewicz arrived after Kennedy had already begun to speak. The Indianapolis chief of police warned Kennedy that the police could not provide adequate protection for the senator if the crowd were to riot, but Kennedy decided to go speak to the crowd regardless. Standing on a podium mounted on flatbed truck, Kennedy spoke for just four minutes and fifty-seven seconds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy%27s_speech_on_the_assassination_of_Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#Earlier_that_day
Samantha
(9,314 posts)When one looks back and really thinks about some of our leaders and the qualities they possessed, and then looks around and what passes for a good politician today, it is just too sad. We will never see the likes of some of these people again.
Sam
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)But no, definitely NOT political
RL
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)...such as guns.
Nice plagiarism, btw.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Dated January 21, 2011, Kathleen Kennedy Townsend echoed her father's words:
At an event commemorating the 50th Anniversary of Robert F. Kennedys swearing-in as Attorney General, his eldest daughter, Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, made reference to the recent Tucson shooting and called for tighter gun control laws. Kennedy Townsend, who lost both her father and uncle to assassins bullets, said, I believe that this department and this country have got to do a better job on gun regulation and on gun control and making our citizens safe. As my father said, we glorify killing on movies and on television screens and call it entertainment. We make it easy for men of all shades and sanity to acquire weapons, and violence breeds violence. Repression brings retaliation, and only a cleaning of our whole society can remove this sickness from our soul.
Legends of the civil rights movement, members of the Kennedy Family and current and former Justice Department officials gathered in the Great Hall at the Justice Department to remember RFK on the 50th anniversary of his arrival as Attorney General. The Justice Department released a trove of pictures from the archives honoring him as the 64th Attorney General of the United States. Find them HERE.
The Robert F. Kennedy Department of Justice building in Washington bears his name. Todays tribute reflected on the strides he made for civil rights in the United States.
Attorney General Eric Holder described his excitement watching the Kennedy brothers when he was a young boy, and how, years later, actions taken by RFK to integrate the University of Alabama touched his life.
more at the link: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/01/robert-f-kennedys-daughter-calls-for-tighter-gun-laws/
freshwest
(53,661 posts)And what should have been.
There is a reason America is in trouble. Let's get to the root causes of this. It won't be a pleasant process, but the pain cannot be escaped.
IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)For the first time ever, I've removed a rec from an OP; this one because of the misconduct involved in the offering, not the content itself.
Second, I'd like to notify NYC_SKP (and incidentally anyone else so inclined) that if anyone takes a shine to something I write and wants to repost it elsewhere, kindly ask permission first ONLY since it might be headed somewhere that extreme controversy could be invited. In addition, nothing I write and post is ever to be altered in any way regardless. Should anything I write ever be 'borrowed' w/o prior request and/or permission, the guilty party will discover my Alec Baldwin side. I realize and respect the fact that admin has the responsibility and right to continue its current monitoring duties, of course; they don't need my permission for that, although they do have my gratitude and blessing.
I'm sending SKP and Skinner a DU mail copy of this post to be sure they don't miss it. I'm also asking everyone to notify me if any poster, admin or not, ever does lift my material.
Thank you.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Larry Lessig is perhaps the greatest advocate of net neutrality and open creativity.
Many if not all of his works are free to use, I read his book Free Culture, available for free here: http://www.free-culture.cc/
I also strongly recommend a documentary titled, "RiP: A Remix Manifesto": http://www.hulu.com/watch/88782 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1397511/
Trailer:
I recommend these because they speak to the inanity of "intellectual property" and the way corporations have stifled creativity by invoking concepts of "ownership"
In this event, there is no original work that was reposted. Nothing in the original work was original; it was a "re-mix" of Kennedy's words.
In turn, my post was a remix of the selections used in the other post, with one section and two pictures removed to make the point I wanted to make.
It would have been better to provide the attribution at first, I'll admit that, but it's there now.
Unless someone has used original language, I will not ask for permission, and I will not expect permission if someone reposts one of my posts, if that post consists of material found elsewhere.
That's all.
IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)As freshwest noted, the issue is the insanity in our society. When you deny the existence of valid intellectual property rights, for instance, you're also a striking example of intellectual dishonesty and therefore a large part of the overall problem because you're pushing down a dangerous steep and slippery slope. Would you like it if I decided that included the non-existence of other property rights such as real estate or financial accounts and decided to just help myself at your expense? I think not! Theft is theft, buster. No way you can dress that one up no matter how much paint and perfume you pour on it.
Obviously I'm neither libertarian, anarchist, nor nihilist. But you should think about the logical consequences of ideas before you pollute the atmosphere with garbage. Otherwise all the other lofty talk you dish out is nothing more than tinkling brass. I know an empty suit when I see one.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Purpose above politics. Work together toward a common goal rather than fight with one another.
IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)Now free yourself of any illusions of leadership because you've totally exposed yourself as unfitting.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)There's a critical issue of principle at stake here. We're not each other's pawns, dammit! If you don't respect other people's rights, you can't respect yourself or anything else.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)or is it copyrighted?
IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)send a permission request to admin if you want to use that emoticon.
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)I wonder if we can get admin to pin this at the top of the forum.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Well worth the read, I'm posting a few choice lines below, emphasis is mine.
The full transcript is here: http://millercenter.org/president/speeches/detail/4565
snip
He spoke out against neglect, but he challenged the neglected to seize their own destiny. He wanted so badly for Government to act, but he did not trust bureaucracy. And he believed that Government had to do things with people, not for them. He knew we had to do things together or not at all. He spoke to the sons and daughters of immigrants and the sons and daughters of sharecroppers and told them all, "As long as you stay apart from each other, you will never be what you ought to be."
He saw the word not in terms of right and left but right and wrong. And he taught us lessons that cannot be labeled except as powerful proof. Robert Kennedy reminded us that on any day, in any place, at any time, racism is wrong, exploitation is wrong, violence is wrong, anything that denies the simple humanity and potential of any man or woman is wrong.
snip
If you listen now you can hear with me his voice telling me and telling you and telling everyone here, "We can do better." Today's troubles call us to do better. The legacy of Robert Kennedy is a stem rebuke to the cynicism, to the trivialization that grips so much of our public life today. What use is it in the face of the aching problems gripping millions of Americans, the American without a job, the American without health care, the American without a safe street to live on or a good school to send a child to? What use is it in the face of all the divisions that keep our country down and rob our children of their rightful future?
Let us learn here once again the simple, powerful, beautiful lesson, the simple faith of Robert Kennedy: We can do better. Let us leave here no longer in two places, but once again in one only: in the here and now, with a commitment to tomorrow, the only part of our time that we can control. Let us embrace the memory of Robert Kennedy by living as he would have us to live. For the sake of his memory, of ourselves, and of all of our children and all those to come, let us believe again, we can do better.
The man was, quite simply, transcendent.
IrishAyes
(6,151 posts)When I feel the need for moral or intellectual instruction, I won't waste my time looking in your direction.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I didn't know about this before today. I stumbled upon it while doing some research into the two remarkable men.
The Landmark for Peace is a memorial sculpture at Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Park on the northside of Indianapolis that honors the contributions of the slain leaders Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and Robert F. Kennedy. The memorial, which features King and Kennedy reaching out to each other, was designed and executed by Indiana artist Greg Perry. The bronze portraits were created by Indianapolis sculptor Daniel Edwards.
On April 4, 1968, near the site of the memorial, Robert Kennedy gave an impromptu speech to an inner-city crowd about reconciliation between the races after he learned of King's assassination.[1] Kennedy was told that riots had broken out in other cities and was advised not to make the speech, but he refused to cancel his plans. Originally Kennedy intended to make a speech on his presidential aspirations, instead he spoke of King. No riots took place in Indianapolis, a fact many attribute to the effect of Kennedy's speech.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landmark_for_Peace_Memorial