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Sat Sep 28, 2013, 06:50 PM

This is a time of shame and sorrow. It is not a day for politics.

Last edited Sun Sep 29, 2013, 01:31 AM - Edit history (5)

EDIT to add link to the full speech, RFK, April 5, 1968, given the day after the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.:
http://www.vsotd.com/Article.php?art_num=4651
AND hat tip to Robb for his original post in the GCRA group: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12624998

Except as noted, the following words are those of Robert F. Kennedy:

"This is a time of shame and sorrow. It is not a day for politics."

"I have saved this one opportunity, my only event of today, to speak briefly to you about the mindless menace of violence in America which again stains our land and every one of our lives."




"It is not the concern of any one race.The victims of the violence are black and white, rich and poor, young and old, famous and unknown."


"They are, most important of all, human beings whom other human beings loved and needed. No one - no matter where he lives or what he does - can be certain who will suffer from some senseless act of bloodshed. And yet it goes on and on and on in this country of ours."




"Why? What has violence ever accomplished? What has it ever created? No martyr's cause has ever been stilled by an assassin's bullet."

"No wrongs have ever been righted by riots and civil disorders. A sniper is only a coward, not a hero; and an uncontrolled, uncontrollable mob is only the voice of madness, not the voice of reason."

"Whenever any American's life is taken by another American unnecessarily - whether it is done in the name of the law or in the defiance of the law, by one man or a gang, in cold blood or in passion, in an attack of violence or in response to violence - whenever we tear at the fabric of the life which another man has painfully and clumsily woven for himself and his children, the whole nation is degraded."

"Among free men," said Abraham Lincoln, "there can be no successful appeal from the ballot to the bullet; and those who take such appeal are sure to lose their cause and pay the costs."



"Some look for scapegoats, others look for conspiracies, but this much is clear: violence breeds violence, repression brings retaliation, and only a cleansing of our whole society can remove this sickness from our soul."



April 5, 1968


Wake up, America, to a new call for comprehensive measures to reduce violence in America. (NYC_SKP)

115 replies, 9728 views

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Reply This is a time of shame and sorrow. It is not a day for politics. (Original post)
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 OP
brer cat Sep 2013 #1
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #2
rhett o rick Sep 2013 #3
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #15
rhett o rick Sep 2013 #23
IrishAyes Sep 2013 #25
99th_Monkey Sep 2013 #87
tweeternik Sep 2013 #89
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #93
CaliforniaPeggy Sep 2013 #4
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #5
calimary Sep 2013 #6
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #18
juajen Sep 2013 #7
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #8
jtuck004 Sep 2013 #9
LittleBlue Sep 2013 #28
juajen Sep 2013 #33
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #63
totodeinhere Sep 2013 #83
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #115
Lifelong Protester Sep 2013 #10
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #12
G_j Sep 2013 #11
Robb Sep 2013 #13
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #14
Robb Sep 2013 #16
Warren DeMontague Sep 2013 #37
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #39
Warren DeMontague Sep 2013 #40
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #41
Warren DeMontague Sep 2013 #57
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #59
Warren DeMontague Sep 2013 #62
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #67
Warren DeMontague Sep 2013 #73
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #74
Warren DeMontague Sep 2013 #75
Electric Monk Sep 2013 #21
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #60
Schema Thing Sep 2013 #45
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #46
freshwest Sep 2013 #79
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #81
YoungDemCA Sep 2013 #91
hue Sep 2013 #17
marble falls Sep 2013 #19
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #30
yewberry Sep 2013 #20
zappaman Sep 2013 #22
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #31
Electric Monk Sep 2013 #34
yewberry Sep 2013 #35
Robb Sep 2013 #38
WillyT Sep 2013 #24
demmiblue Sep 2013 #26
IrishAyes Sep 2013 #32
WorseBeforeBetter Sep 2013 #43
IrishAyes Sep 2013 #86
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #109
IrishAyes Sep 2013 #112
AngryOldDem Sep 2013 #36
Robb Sep 2013 #69
BainsBane Sep 2013 #27
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #42
BainsBane Sep 2013 #44
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #47
yewberry Sep 2013 #48
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #52
yewberry Sep 2013 #53
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #54
yewberry Sep 2013 #56
freshwest Sep 2013 #51
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #55
pintobean Sep 2013 #29
freshwest Sep 2013 #49
Bobbie Jo Sep 2013 #50
cliffordu Sep 2013 #58
eppur_se_muova Sep 2013 #61
99Forever Sep 2013 #64
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #68
Moostache Sep 2013 #94
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #65
sheshe2 Sep 2013 #66
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #70
Robb Sep 2013 #72
freshwest Sep 2013 #80
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #82
Robb Sep 2013 #71
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #76
Tuesday Afternoon Sep 2013 #77
Samantha Sep 2013 #78
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #84
Samantha Sep 2013 #100
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #103
Samantha Sep 2013 #114
cantbeserious Sep 2013 #85
RetroLounge Sep 2013 #88
YoungDemCA Sep 2013 #90
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #92
freshwest Sep 2013 #95
IrishAyes Sep 2013 #96
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #97
IrishAyes Sep 2013 #107
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #108
IrishAyes Sep 2013 #111
pintobean Sep 2013 #99
IrishAyes Sep 2013 #101
pintobean Sep 2013 #102
IrishAyes Sep 2013 #104
pintobean Sep 2013 #105
Sissyk Sep 2013 #106
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #98
IrishAyes Sep 2013 #110
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #113

Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 06:55 PM

1. Thanks for posting, NYC_SKP

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Response to brer cat (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 06:58 PM

2. De nada, brer cat.

Better to pool our resources, no?

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 07:17 PM

3. k&r thanks for posting. nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 08:01 PM

15. I miss Bobby Kennedy more than Martin or John. He was the hope my generation held so closely.

And he speaks to us still.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #15)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 08:31 PM

23. I hadnt thought of it before, but I will certainly agree with you.

One thing that comes to my conspiratorial mind is that it isnt a coincidence that these three extremely important friends of the people (enemies of the 1%) were assassinated.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #15)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 09:10 PM

25. I miss them all, but Bobby most of all, too.

And the first thing I thought the first time I ever heard (then Senator) Obama speak was, "He's our Bobby returned to us." That might seem silly to some, but it was my honest reaction and has much to do with my feelings for Barack. Both men, really.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #15)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 02:23 PM

87. Yes. I totally concur. I worked on Bobby's campaign in Oregon & California

He was a man filled with keen vision and immense compassion, for
a better tomorrow, for everyone not just a few rich assholes.

His clear blue eyes said it all, when I shook his hand.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #87)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 02:58 PM

89. Worked on Bobby's campaign in Pennsylvania ....

truly a kind, caring, gentle soul. Deeply missed still. 😢

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #87)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 03:31 PM

93. I was only twelve years old, but I did get to see him on his tour through California.

Just days, I guess, before that fateful day in LA, he made a stop at our local mall.

Even to my young self, it was devastating to have lost him so soon after King.

I don't know if our country will ever recover from the loss.



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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 07:17 PM

4. Well said, and well shown, my dear NYC_SKP...

A very powerful message.

It's too bad that the folks who really need to see and hear this, won't.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 07:18 PM

5. They are just children, Peggy. WTH is wrong with us?



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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 07:23 PM

6. Totally! It's a complete disgrace.

There's so much talk about bullying and how bad it is. How 'bout we look at where some of the REAL bullying is originating? From the gun goons - who think their "right" is somehow sacrosanct and trumps any other right claimed by anyone else.

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Response to calimary (Reply #6)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 08:08 PM

18. Agreed, calimary. What is it about our culture that makes people want to be so violent.

Why are guns seen to be "cool"? Why is "power" seen as a virtue?

SMH.

So sad...

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 07:28 PM

7. This will be controversial, but here goes!

Violence in this country is overwhelmingly caused by men.

We test men all the time for low testosterone levels. Why do we not test for high testosterone levels? Is research being done on this subject, and I'm just missing it?

I mean, it never fails that when a woman blows up, it is often, jokingly or not, blamed on her time of the month, in other words, her hormones are out of whack. Men have the same hormones as women, I do believe. What say you, DU?

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Response to juajen (Reply #7)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 07:31 PM

8. No argument here. We owe it to our children to consider every possible cause of violent behavior.

Quite possibly diet, environmental toxins, and other factors are at work.

I say lets leave no stone unturned in finding and curing the root causes of violence, gun violence and all forms of violence.

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Response to juajen (Reply #7)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 07:46 PM

9. Correlation does not imply causation. More violence is perpetrated by men, who are raised

by parents that see their role as far different from the women, and by a government that still today uses them for cannon fodder, and companies that see them as nothing but an expense. In other words, the cause may well be outside their control without some significant effort to address what they have been taught all their lives. Easier to point a finger, however...

Just ask Sheryl Sandberg - as she points out, from very early on, even on a playground, a girl who is assertive may well be called "bossy", where it is used as a pejorative. A boy behaving similarly becomes a piece of meat to watch during baseball or football recruiting season.

Men commit suicide at over 4x the rate of women too, and at an increasing rate over the past 10 years. I don't hear a lot of people getting all worked up over that.

And when dr's test for testosterone, they DO test for excess levels, btw. It's a range on the lab notes, all of them.



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Response to juajen (Reply #7)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 09:17 PM

28. What are you suggesting?

That we test men and lower their testosterone?

Good luck finding 5 men in the country who would consent to it.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #28)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 09:30 PM

33. Actually, that was my point!

We will never stop these sprees without some real research being done.

As to the war issue, I agree that war makes for really dangerous bed fellows. I have a friend whose husband had nightmares continuously and she had to calm him down at least weekly, if not nightly. She was afraid he would be violent with her, and eventually, they separated. What a shame that was. We send them to fight for our "freedoms", I guess that's the freedom to charge what we like for oil and gas, then deny them adequate psychiatric help to get over the trauma. Not even taking into account that they are so messed up, it is difficult or impossible for them to go back to work.

I don't know what the answer is, but, I know that a reasonable man is not going to equate sexuality with a hormone level that is out of balance. Of course, that's the problem. They hide any symptoms if they can, and doctors, being men, are hesitant to go there.

Ever heard of a woman going through menopause? "She's hormonal" is a common phrase. You rarely hear "he's hormonal", do you?

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Response to juajen (Reply #33)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:41 PM

63. There's no such thing as too much research or too much education.

We need more light on the subject of violence, and less heat.

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Response to juajen (Reply #7)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 11:03 AM

83. This is a very interesting topic. I agree that more research on it needs to be done.

And I say that as a male. Here is an interesting article on this topic.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/200907/sex-violence-and-hormones

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #83)

Mon Sep 30, 2013, 10:55 AM

115. The study cited in your article is interesting, makes me wonder about a solution...

Neurosci Biobehav Rev. 2006;30(3):319-45. Epub 2005 Feb 25.
Testosterone and human aggression: an evaluation of the challenge hypothesis.
Archer J.

Department of Psychology, University of Central Lancashire, Preston, Lancashire PR12HE, UK. jarcher@uclan.ac.uk
Abstract

Research on testosterone-behavior relationships in humans is assessed in relation to a version of the challenge hypothesis, originally proposed to account for testosterone-aggression associations in monogamous birds. Predictions were that that testosterone would rise at puberty to moderate levels, which supported reproductive physiology and behavior. Sexual arousal and challenges involving young males would raise testosterone levels further. In turn, this would facilitate direct competitive behavior, including aggression. When males are required to care for offspring, testosterone levels will decrease. Testosterone levels will also be associated with different behavioral profiles among men, associated with life history strategies involving emphasis on either mating or parental effort. Most of these predictions were supported by the review of current research, although most studies were not designed to specifically test the challenge hypothesis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16483890


See part in bold. Is it possible that through activities like animal husbandry or gardening; caretaking of some living thing, that young boys could become less prone to violence?

I taught in a juvenile hall facility for four years, long term incarcerants age 14-17, and I taught them to care for the planet, and we had a garden.

I think it just might work.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 07:48 PM

10. When we as a society do nothing

We ought to hang our heads in shame. Thanks of posting.

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Response to Lifelong Protester (Reply #10)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 07:55 PM

12. Bobby Kennedy was particularly skillful in building consensus and staying on point.

I saw him on his campaign swing through California just a day or two before he was murdered.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 07:50 PM

11. Thank you nt

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 07:57 PM

13. Oh, please.

RFK's most poignant speech on gun control, artfully re-edited to include no mention of guns.

Brilliant gun trollery. From a GD host, no less. Bra-vo.

Edited to add: stalking me still? http://www.democraticunderground.com/12624998

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Response to Robb (Reply #13)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 07:59 PM

14. This is not a day for politics. (nt)

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #14)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 08:01 PM

16. Is it a day for creepy stalky gun trollery?

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Response to Robb (Reply #16)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 10:04 PM

37. And using a picture of the kids in Newtown, to make an anti-gun control point, apparently.

But at least it's not a picture of Mila Kunis in a bikini, because that would be "sick" and deeply offensive

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #37)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 10:08 PM

39. "Anti-gun control point"?

How do you get that out of anything in the OP?

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #39)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 10:09 PM

40. Are you going to answer Robb's point? About, say, the shotun thread 2 days after Newtown?

Or is that not the same sort of profound unacceptable outrage as, say, a thread with pictures of attractive celebrities?

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #40)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 10:12 PM

41. This is not a day for politics.

I don't see a point that warrants a response. So I guess "no".

In any event, there's nothing in my OP that suggests anything but a need to come together to address violence.

I'm on board. Are you?

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #41)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:26 PM

57. You copied the OP except for the references to gun control, which you removed as "unnecessary"

Pretty transparent.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #57)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:35 PM

59. The speech has 1,012 words. We each had different points to make.

His selective use of particular lines is no more or less transparent or valid than my choice of lines.

As I elected to exclude the pictures of the DC shooter and the gun nuts, I also excluded the lines that Robb chose to go along with those pictures.

Thus, "unnecessary".

I see nothing wrong with our wanting to place emphasis on different aspects of a 1,012 word speech.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #59)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:41 PM

62. I'm obviously not the only one who came away with that impression.

You edited the OP, so at least there's that.

However, I do find it fascinating, in looking at this or that thread you self-deleted right after newtown, what to some minds constitutes and does not constitute an "offensive and outrageous" thread, to wit:

Thread praising a brand of shotgun immediately after a mass shooting of 6 year olds - OK.

attractive actress in a bikini - offensive, disgusting and "sick".

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #62)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:50 PM

67. I'm lost on the bikini reference.

The post-Newtown thread was in protest of the admin's decision to allow gun threads into GD.

This is well known to anyone who was paying attention. It would also be obvious to anyone who looked at my posting history pre Newtown that it was out of character, consistent with posting as a protest.

At Skinner's request and in respect to the community, I self deleted.

Most understood and thanked me for killing the post, but a few won't let it go.

Anyone who chooses to bring that up over and over again with the intention of making it look like anything more than a protest of the admin decision is, IMHO, just being obnoxious.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #67)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 12:24 AM

73. Okay.

Well, it was probably for the best, as well as for the best to edit this OP.

As it is, I'd much rather see a picture of Mila Kunis- or Brad Pitt, for that matter- than one of a shotgun. It seems I'm "sick" that way.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #73)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 12:27 AM

74. Ah, OK.

I thought it might have been something I did with a bikini pic.

I know what you mean, we have to be careful about posting provocative pictures of good looking people, I guess it's a weird form of tolerance.

I'm with you.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #74)


Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #14)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 08:24 PM

21. Your selective editing is political, in addition to being disgusting and dishonest. nt

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #21)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:36 PM

60. Robb's OP was equally selective.

You might want to read the entire speech, it has 1,012 words. There's a link in my OP.

Robb chose his words with purpose, and his pics, and I chose my words and pics with a different purpose, no less valid IMHO.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #14)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 10:31 PM

45. As you play politics.

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Response to Schema Thing (Reply #45)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 10:39 PM

46. " Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something."

From the same speech.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #46)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 01:49 AM

79. Sadly, that does not seem to be the issue tonight. I've got better things to do. (Warning: Kitteh!)

Here's my favorite cheap thrills fight video played by a pair of felines. It has suspense, menace, all the prerequisites for drama.

There's sexual betrayal, unwanted pregnancy, vulgar language, a coward, a woman done wrong, hatred, vengeance, threats of violence and police, even.

I come down on the side of the female feline. Get that two timing scrub but good, GRRR!:



This has been another post from:



Good night all.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #79)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 09:54 AM

81. Now that's love!

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Response to Robb (Reply #13)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 03:10 PM

91. Nice

Some people can be absolutely shameless.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 08:03 PM

17. K&R!!

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 08:15 PM

19. Accourding to the FBI violent crime has been fallong for thslast 30years.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #19)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 09:23 PM

30. Even 1/2 of bad is still bad. Or in this case, horrible and tragic. (nt)

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 08:21 PM

20. I don't understand.

Why would you edit Robb's thread and re-post it under your own name in GD?

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 08:27 PM

22. WTF?

Why did you repost this and selectively edit it?

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Response to zappaman (Reply #22)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 09:26 PM

31. A: To make it accessible to every DU member.

The other post was in a closed group.

And B: to remove the unnecessary parts, there's no reason to sully the central message.

Peace.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #31)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 09:33 PM

34. Anyone can read the original, even if not logged in. Only gun nuts are blocked from replying there.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12624998

The definition, for purposes of that group, is: If you think the solution to gun violence is more guns, then you're a gun nut.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=about&forum=1262

Statement of Purpose

Discuss how to enact progressive gun control reform in a supportive environment. The group serves as a safe haven in which to mobilize supporters in support of measures reducing gun violence by changing laws, culture and practice at the municipal, state, and federal levels. While there is no single solution to the tragic epidemic of gun violence, members agree that more guns are not the solution to gun violence, and are expected to be supportive of the policies of progressive gun control reform organizations.


It's not as complicated or restrictive as some of our "RKBA enthusiasts" like to pretend it is.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #31)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 09:54 PM

35. Then you should've linked to the original

and noted your edits.

I think this was a really, really lousy thing to do.

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Response to yewberry (Reply #35)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 10:05 PM

38. But he needed to "remove the unnecessary parts"!

Just a little tightening up here and there! You know those Kennedy brothers, they weren't good at public speaking.

I mean, why would anyone care that in the speech he said

"... We make it easy for men of all shades of sanity to acquire whatever weapons and ammunition they desire."


What possible reason could he have to ....

...oh.



...oh, is that the Navy Yard shooter with a shotgun? Is it the same kind the OP praised what, two days after the Sandy Hook shootings?

In fairness, it's entirely possible the bodies of those children were technically (if not metaphorically) cold by then, so no foul, amirite??

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)



Response to demmiblue (Reply #26)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 09:27 PM

32. I followed the link and find the situation very puzzling and disturbing. Totally unexpected.

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #32)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 10:23 PM

43. Meh. Not so unexpected.

Considering this beauty from December 2012:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022002711

(And yes, that was sarcasm...)

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Response to WorseBeforeBetter (Reply #43)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 02:02 PM

86. Thanks for the link.

I had no idea. Honestly. Last thing I would've expected. I don't care if admin did decide to permit a free-for-all; we're still liable for our individual behavior regardless.

I told Skp he should've explained he was reposting Robb's work with his own revisions, and that it would've been better to have asked permission first as well. Perhaps he omitted that last point knowing permission would be refused, as I can well understand why. I actually liked his OP best but that's entirely beside the point - it never should've been done in the first place.

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #86)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 09:52 PM

109. Thank you for the compliment.

Thanks for the link.

I had no idea. Honestly. Last thing I would've expected. I don't care if admin did decide to permit a free-for-all; we're still liable for our individual behavior regardless.

I told Skp he should've explained he was reposting Robb's work with his own revisions, and that it would've been better to have asked permission first as well. Perhaps he omitted that last point knowing permission would be refused, as I can well understand why. I actually liked his OP best but that's entirely beside the point - it never should've been done in the first place.


I think mine was an improvement, too. I don't think the pictures of gun nuts served RFK's words well, so I created my own mash up of RFK's speech, using most of the same pics rob used.

That's not theft, that's just adaptation and improvement over prior art. This happens all the time in the real world, and legally.

There is no ownership issue here, the words are RFK's.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #109)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 09:59 PM

112. Take full note that my compliment has been withdrawn as the hypocrisy of your behavior

grew more apparent by the minute.

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Response to demmiblue (Reply #26)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 09:58 PM

36. I don't care what the intent is. This should be locked. Period. n/t

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Response to AngryOldDem (Reply #36)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:55 PM

69. Considering the OP is a GD host, I don't think that's likely.

Although passive-aggressiveness is not expressly forbidden in the SOP, so this is probably fine.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 09:11 PM

27. Plagiarism?

That's not cool.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #27)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 10:22 PM

42. Excerpts from RFK's "Mindless Menace of Violence" speech, April 5, 1968

Given the day after MLK's assassination at the City Club of Cleveland.

It ends thusly (emphasis is mine):


...Our lives on this planet are too short and the work to be done too great to let this spirit flourish any longer in our land. Of course we cannot vanquish it with a program, nor with a resolution.

But we can perhaps remember, if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as do we, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and in happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can.

Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men, and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our own hearts brothers and countrymen once again.

http://www.vsotd.com/Article.php?art_num=4651



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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #42)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 10:29 PM

44. You lifted Robb's OP

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #44)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 10:49 PM

47. Yes, credit to Robb for the original post.

He posted in the GCRA closed group. I got rid of the pics of gun nuts and reposted it here in GD for full access.

The words are RFK's, the pics are from the Internet, everything is public domain.

But credit to Robb for his original OP!

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #47)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 10:52 PM

48. Wow, this is shameless.

What a nasty thins to do. I have lost all respect for you today.

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Response to yewberry (Reply #48)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:07 PM

52. Not really. Robert Kennedy's words can't be repeated often enough.

I just think they ought to be heard by more people, thus a new post in GD.

OP edited now to include attribution to RFK and to Robb's OP.

http://www.vsotd.com/Article.php?art_num=4651

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #52)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:15 PM

53. Apparently you think Bobby Kennedy's words needed a little editing.

What a total crap thing to do, lifting someone else's post, and "cleaning up" Bobby Kennedy's speech in order to shine a better light on your own position on guns.



You asked someone upthread if they were on board. My answer: not if I have to sit next to you.

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Response to yewberry (Reply #53)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:18 PM

54. No, actually. I didn't use RFK's words much differently in this OP.

You might like to check the two OPs.

What I did was leave out the pic of gun nuts and the pic of the DC shooter, no need to glorify either of them.

I also left out a line that Robb used that worked well for his picture of the shooter, that I didn't choose to use.

Instead, I provided a link to the ENTIRE speech, something I believe Robb failed to do.



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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #54)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:25 PM

56. Here's what you edited out of the post that you plagiarized:

"Yet we seemingly tolerate a rising level of violence that ignores our common humanity and our claims to civilization alike. We calmly accept newspaper reports of civilian slaughter in far-off lands. We glorify killing on movie and television screens and call it entertainment. We make it easy for men of all shades of sanity to acquire whatever weapons and ammunition they desire."

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #47)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:06 PM

51. Edit the OP, with credit and show his OP in a different font than your additions. No problem then.

Still glad to see it, as I had not seen Robb''s version. Now I will go and K & R his, also.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #51)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:20 PM

55. Done, thanks!

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 09:21 PM

29. K&R

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:01 PM

49. Tears. Well said. Thanks, NYC SKP

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:03 PM

50. K&R

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:30 PM

58. K&R

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:40 PM

61. I recced the original post, not this Bowdlerized version.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:44 PM

64. Shame on you.

Your selective editing of Bobby Kennedy's words is perhaps the lowest thing I have ever seen on this website.

You make Congresscritters look good by comparison.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #64)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:52 PM

68. Have you seen the entirety of the 1,012 word speech?

Any excerpt would be selective, wouldn't it? Is one selection more legitimate than another?

Here:

This is a time of shame and sorrow. It is not a day for politics. I have saved this one opportunity, my only event of today, to speak briefly to you about the mindless menace of violence in America which again stains our land and every one of our lives.

It is not the concern of any one race. The victims of the violence are black and white, rich and poor, young and old, famous and unknown. They are, most important of all, human beings whom other human beings loved and needed. No one - no matter where he lives or what he does - can be certain who will suffer from some senseless act of bloodshed. And yet it goes on and on and on in this country of ours.

Why? What has violence ever accomplished? What has it ever created? No martyr's cause has ever been stilled by an assassin's bullet.

No wrongs have ever been righted by riots and civil disorders. A sniper is only a coward, not a hero; and an uncontrolled, uncontrollable mob is only the voice of madness, not the voice of reason.

Whenever any American's life is taken by another American unnecessarily - whether it is done in the name of the law or in the defiance of the law, by one man or a gang, in cold blood or in passion, in an attack of violence or in response to violence - whenever we tear at the fabric of the life which another man has painfully and clumsily woven for himself and his children, the whole nation is degraded.

"Among free men," said Abraham Lincoln, "there can be no successful appeal from the ballot to the bullet; and those who take such appeal are sure to lose their cause and pay the costs."

Yet we seemingly tolerate a rising level of violence that ignores our common humanity and our claims to civilization alike. We calmly accept newspaper reports of civilian slaughter in far-off lands. We glorify killing on movie and television screens and call it entertainment. We make it easy for men of all shades of sanity to acquire whatever weapons and ammunition they desire.

Too often we honor swagger and bluster and wielders of force; too often we excuse those who are willing to build their own lives on the shattered dreams of others. Some Americans who preach non-violence abroad fail to practice it here at home. Some who accuse others of inciting riots have by their own conduct invited them.

Some look for scapegoats, others look for conspiracies, but this much is clear: violence breeds violence, repression brings retaliation, and only a cleansing of our whole society can remove this sickness from our soul.

For there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. This is the slow destruction of a child by hunger, and schools without books and homes without heat in the winter.

This is the breaking of a man's spirit by denying him the chance to stand as a father and as a man among other men. And this too afflicts us all.

I have not come here to propose a set of specific remedies nor is there a single set. For a broad and adequate outline we know what must be done. When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies, to be met not with cooperation but with conquest; to be subjugated and mastered.

We learn, at the last, to look at our brothers as aliens, men with whom we share a city, but not a community; men bound to us in common dwelling, but not in common effort. We learn to share only a common fear, only a common desire to retreat from each other, only a common impulse to meet disagreement with force. For all this, there are no final answers.

Yet we know what we must do. It is to achieve true justice among our fellow citizens. The question is not what programs we should seek to enact. The question is whether we can find in our own midst and in our own hearts that leadership of humane purpose that will recognize the terrible truths of our existence.

We must admit the vanity of our false distinctions among men and learn to find our own advancement in the search for the advancement of others. We must admit in ourselves that our own children's future cannot be built on the misfortunes of others. We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.

Our lives on this planet are too short and the work to be done too great to let this spirit flourish any longer in our land. Of course we cannot vanquish it with a program, nor with a resolution.

But we can perhaps remember, if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as do we, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and in happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can.

Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men, and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our own hearts brothers and countrymen once again.v


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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #68)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 04:48 PM

94. This speech always break my heart...

The entirety of the sentiments RFK put forth are still so resonant today that it makes me cry inside.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:46 PM

65. I agree

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:46 PM

66. K&R!

Thanks, SKP.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 12:00 AM

70. Allow me to add this additional section which certainly applies to our current society:

From the same speech, the same day, April 5, 1968

"Yet we seemingly tolerate a rising level of violence that ignores our common humanity and our claims to civilization alike.

We calmly accept newspaper reports of civilian slaughter in far-off lands.

We glorify killing on movie and television screens and call it entertainment.

We make it easy for men of all shades of sanity to acquire whatever weapons and ammunition they desire."


Except that, today, we don't have to look so much to far-off lands for reports of civilian slaughter.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #70)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 12:08 AM

72. Too late.

But good try.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #70)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 02:19 AM

80. I'm seeing one link that does not show that; it appears to be valid; is there a full transcript.

Also the point of this OP seems to be getting lost with peronality conflicts here at DU.

You may want to edit again, making sure that neither yours, nor Robb's, excerpts are the primary language in this OP. But a full transcript with a link for people to verify it and get this thread back to where it belongs,

The issue is the insanity in our society. I remember some years back being struck with horror by this contrast, but no more. It is the truth of so many human failures, that we have to address:



The three children on the left still have the breath of life, barely, but they are alive. The entity on the right was never alive.

What is important, America? Will you deny what you are, can you continue to turn your eyes away from the tools of death in which you feel so much pride?

This that you wrote:

'..today, we don't have to look so much to far-off lands for reports of civilian slaughter.'

You have nailed the problem we are suffering from. Desiring the power to intimidate others, does not support civil society and democracy. It utterly destroys it from top to bottom.

I feel we are being punished. Not by foreign enemies or a vengeful creator. We are being punished by simply being what we are.

It was inevitable that a nation that based its security on deadly force, would experience the same.

JHMO.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #80)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 10:34 AM

82. Full transcript added in reply #76.

I'm encouraged that you can see in the shallowness of our consumerism, among other drawbacks, the roots of our disease or, if not the roots, then the connectedness of all of these things. It's not just guns, it's despair and hopelessness, it's evidence of dysfunction in our values system.

It is a disease of our collective soul, it's endemic to America and it seems to be chronic and worsening.

We've lost our way.

RFK gave spoke those words over 45 years ago and they speak to our condition even more today than they did then.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 12:05 AM

71. "Hat tip"?

If that was your hat, you must have to squat to brush your teeth.

This is the lowest you've sunk, gunner.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 12:43 AM

76. Adding Audio Clip and Transcript: In his own words, "On the Mindless Menace of Violence in America.

Last edited Sun Sep 29, 2013, 10:24 AM - Edit history (1)

Robert F. Kennedy is better known for his spontaneous speech delivered in Indianapolis on the day Martin Luther King was assassinated. Lesser known is this speech, given the day after, at the City Club of Cleveland, April 5, 1968. The text follows the video, below.



This is a time of shame and sorrow. It is not a day for politics. I have saved this one opportunity, my only event of today, to speak briefly to you about the mindless menace of violence in America which again stains our land and every one of our lives.

It is not the concern of any one race. The victims of the violence are black and white, rich and poor, young and old, famous and unknown. They are, most important of all, human beings whom other human beings loved and needed. No one - no matter where he lives or what he does - can be certain who will suffer from some senseless act of bloodshed. And yet it goes on and on and on in this country of ours.

Why? What has violence ever accomplished? What has it ever created? No martyr's cause has ever been stilled by an assassin's bullet.

No wrongs have ever been righted by riots and civil disorders. A sniper is only a coward, not a hero; and an uncontrolled, uncontrollable mob is only the voice of madness, not the voice of reason.

Whenever any American's life is taken by another American unnecessarily - whether it is done in the name of the law or in the defiance of the law, by one man or a gang, in cold blood or in passion, in an attack of violence or in response to violence - whenever we tear at the fabric of the life which another man has painfully and clumsily woven for himself and his children, the whole nation is degraded.

"Among free men," said Abraham Lincoln, "there can be no successful appeal from the ballot to the bullet; and those who take such appeal are sure to lose their cause and pay the costs."

Yet we seemingly tolerate a rising level of violence that ignores our common humanity and our claims to civilization alike. We calmly accept newspaper reports of civilian slaughter in far-off lands. We glorify killing on movie and television screens and call it entertainment. We make it easy for men of all shades of sanity to acquire whatever weapons and ammunition they desire.

Too often we honor swagger and bluster and wielders of force; too often we excuse those who are willing to build their own lives on the shattered dreams of others. Some Americans who preach non-violence abroad fail to practice it here at home. Some who accuse others of inciting riots have by their own conduct invited them.

Some look for scapegoats, others look for conspiracies, but this much is clear: violence breeds violence, repression brings retaliation, and only a cleansing of our whole society can remove this sickness from our soul.

For there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. This is the slow destruction of a child by hunger, and schools without books and homes without heat in the winter.

This is the breaking of a man's spirit by denying him the chance to stand as a father and as a man among other men. And this too afflicts us all.

I have not come here to propose a set of specific remedies nor is there a single set. For a broad and adequate outline we know what must be done. When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies, to be met not with cooperation but with conquest; to be subjugated and mastered.

We learn, at the last, to look at our brothers as aliens, men with whom we share a city, but not a community; men bound to us in common dwelling, but not in common effort. We learn to share only a common fear, only a common desire to retreat from each other, only a common impulse to meet disagreement with force. For all this, there are no final answers.

Yet we know what we must do. It is to achieve true justice among our fellow citizens. The question is not what programs we should seek to enact. The question is whether we can find in our own midst and in our own hearts that leadership of humane purpose that will recognize the terrible truths of our existence.

We must admit the vanity of our false distinctions among men and learn to find our own advancement in the search for the advancement of others. We must admit in ourselves that our own children's future cannot be built on the misfortunes of others. We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.

Our lives on this planet are too short and the work to be done too great to let this spirit flourish any longer in our land. Of course we cannot vanquish it with a program, nor with a resolution.

But we can perhaps remember, if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as do we, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and in happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can.

Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men, and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our own hearts brothers and countrymen once again.

http://www.vsotd.com/Article.php?art_num=4651


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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 01:15 AM

77. Yes, thanks. The general well being of our nation is at stake here. K&R

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 01:27 AM

78. I believe that is the speech he gave extemporaneously

I have read that the speech he gave following Martin Luther King's assassination was one Robert Kennedy composed on the spot. That truly is remarkable. I think there have probably only been a handful of speeches of such magnitude rendered in that fashion; so few would be capable of doing so. But it also denotes that the words are from the heart and not just some paragraphs put together by a speechwriter.

His brother's assassination devastated me. Robert Kennedy's I simply could not believe. It has always been my belief he ran for President to find out more about his brother's assassination and who was involved. I believe he felt that was the only place from which he could acquire the information he desperately sought.

Martin Luther King's assassination hurt and saddened me but it did not surprise me. I think that must have been because he himself expected it would happen one day and voiced that probability openly.

Three men in our history who we will always remember but know can never be replaced -- Martin Luther King, John F. Kennedy and his brother Robert.

Sam

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Response to Samantha (Reply #78)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 11:20 AM

84. Possibly, you're thinking of the Indianapolis speech he gave on the day of the assassination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy%27s_speech_on_the_assassination_of_Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.



Whereas this was given the following day, in Cleveland: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Mindless_Menace_of_Violence

Both are very moving and the first brings tears to my eyes every time.



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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #84)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 08:35 PM

100. Yes, you are correct - thank you

I remember no one wanted him to go in and give that speech to let the people know of Martin Luther King's assassination because they thought it was too dangerous for him. He thought he could talk to the people in a manner that would console and quell a riot from happening. He was truly a man of courage to do what he thought was the right thing as opposed to the safe thing. Although he was told there was no guarantee his safety could be protected, he went anyway.

Sam

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Response to Samantha (Reply #100)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 08:57 PM

103. RFK was a visionary, he was transcendent, the best of that generation. Standing on a flat-bed truck

.

During his speeches at Notre Dame and Ball State, Kennedy focused on domestic issues, the Vietnam War, and racism. At Notre Dame's Stepan Center, a crowd of approximately 5,000 heard Kennedy speak on poverty in America and the need for better-paying jobs. When asked about draft laws, Kennedy called them "unjust and inequitable" and argued to end college deferments on the basis that they discriminated against those who could not afford a college education. His speech at Ball State was well received by more than 9,000 students, faculty, and community members. One African-American student raised a question to Kennedy that seems almost a premonition of the speech to come later that night after the horrific events of the day. The student asked, “Your speech implies that you are placing a great deal of faith in white America. Is that faith justified?” Kennedy answered “Yes” and added that “faith in black America is justified, too” although he said there “are extremists on both sides.” Before boarding a plane to fly to Indianapolis, Kennedy learned that Martin Luther King, Jr. had been shot. On the plane, Kennedy told a reporter "You know, it grieves me. . . that I just told that kid this and then walk out and find that some white man has just shot their spiritual leader." Kennedy did not learn that King was dead until his plane landed in Indianapolis. According to reporter John J. Lindsay, Kennedy "seemed to shrink back as though struck physically" and put his hands to his face, saying "Oh, God. When is this violence going to stop?"

In Indianapolis the news of King's death caused concern among representatives from Kennedy's campaign and city officials, who feared for his safety and the possibility of a riot. After talking with reporters at the Indianapolis airport, Kennedy canceled a stop at his campaign headquarters and continued on to the rally site, where a crowd had gathered to hear him speak. Both Frank Mankiewicz, Kennedy's press secretary, and speechwriter Adam Walinsky drafted notes immediately before the rally for Kennedy's use, but Kennedy refused Walinsky's notes, instead using some that he had likely written on the ride over; Mankiewicz arrived after Kennedy had already begun to speak. The Indianapolis chief of police warned Kennedy that the police could not provide adequate protection for the senator if the crowd were to riot, but Kennedy decided to go speak to the crowd regardless. Standing on a podium mounted on flatbed truck, Kennedy spoke for just four minutes and fifty-seven seconds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy%27s_speech_on_the_assassination_of_Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#Earlier_that_day


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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #103)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 11:35 PM

114. Thank you for this

When one looks back and really thinks about some of our leaders and the qualities they possessed, and then looks around and what passes for a good politician today, it is just too sad. We will never see the likes of some of these people again.

Sam

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 12:01 PM

85. Violence Has Killed Society In America - The Road To Redemption Will Be Difficult At Best

eom

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 02:42 PM

88. and a time for plagiarism and stalkery stuff, I guess

But no, definitely NOT political



RL

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 03:09 PM

90. New measures that would include more restrictions on the ownership of deadly weapons...

...such as guns.

Nice plagiarism, btw.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 03:14 PM

92. Robert F. Kennedy’s Daughter Calls for Tighter Gun Laws:

Dated January 21, 2011, Kathleen Kennedy Townsend echoed her father's words:

ABC News’ Jason Ryan reports:

At an event commemorating the 50th Anniversary of Robert F. Kennedy’s swearing-in as Attorney General, his eldest daughter, Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, made reference to the recent Tucson shooting and called for tighter gun control laws. Kennedy Townsend, who lost both her father and uncle to assassins’ bullets, said, “I believe that this department and this country have got to do a better job on gun regulation and on gun control and making our citizens safe. As my father said, we glorify killing on movies and on television screens and call it entertainment. We make it easy for men of all shades and sanity to acquire weapons, and violence breeds violence. Repression brings retaliation, and only a cleaning of our whole society can remove this sickness from our soul.”

Legends of the civil rights movement, members of the Kennedy Family and current and former Justice Department officials gathered in the Great Hall at the Justice Department to remember RFK on the 50th anniversary of his arrival as Attorney General. The Justice Department released a trove of pictures from the archives honoring him as the 64th Attorney General of the United States. Find them HERE.

The Robert F. Kennedy Department of Justice building in Washington bears his name. Today’s tribute reflected on the strides he made for civil rights in the United States.

Attorney General Eric Holder described his excitement watching the Kennedy brothers when he was a young boy, and how, years later, actions taken by RFK to integrate the University of Alabama touched his life.

more at the link: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/01/robert-f-kennedys-daughter-calls-for-tighter-gun-laws/


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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #92)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 05:29 PM

95. Excellent add. What might have been.



And what should have been.



There is a reason America is in trouble. Let's get to the root causes of this. It won't be a pleasant process, but the pain cannot be escaped.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 07:10 PM

96. Notice and request to all of DU

For the first time ever, I've removed a rec from an OP; this one because of the misconduct involved in the offering, not the content itself.

Second, I'd like to notify NYC_SKP (and incidentally anyone else so inclined) that if anyone takes a shine to something I write and wants to repost it elsewhere, kindly ask permission first ONLY since it might be headed somewhere that extreme controversy could be invited. In addition, nothing I write and post is ever to be altered in any way regardless. Should anything I write ever be 'borrowed' w/o prior request and/or permission, the guilty party will discover my Alec Baldwin side. I realize and respect the fact that admin has the responsibility and right to continue its current monitoring duties, of course; they don't need my permission for that, although they do have my gratitude and blessing.

I'm sending SKP and Skinner a DU mail copy of this post to be sure they don't miss it. I'm also asking everyone to notify me if any poster, admin or not, ever does lift my material.

Thank you.

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #96)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 08:08 PM

97. I strongly recommend two works by Larry Lessig:

Larry Lessig is perhaps the greatest advocate of net neutrality and open creativity.

Many if not all of his works are free to use, I read his book Free Culture, available for free here: http://www.free-culture.cc/

I also strongly recommend a documentary titled, "RiP: A Remix Manifesto": http://www.hulu.com/watch/88782 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1397511/

Trailer:



I recommend these because they speak to the inanity of "intellectual property" and the way corporations have stifled creativity by invoking concepts of "ownership"

In response to your reply:

In this event, there is no original work that was reposted. Nothing in the original work was original; it was a "re-mix" of Kennedy's words.

In turn, my post was a remix of the selections used in the other post, with one section and two pictures removed to make the point I wanted to make.

It would have been better to provide the attribution at first, I'll admit that, but it's there now.

Unless someone has used original language, I will not ask for permission, and I will not expect permission if someone reposts one of my posts, if that post consists of material found elsewhere.


That's all.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #97)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 09:38 PM

107. No, that's NOT all.

As freshwest noted, the issue is the insanity in our society. When you deny the existence of valid intellectual property rights, for instance, you're also a striking example of intellectual dishonesty and therefore a large part of the overall problem because you're pushing down a dangerous steep and slippery slope. Would you like it if I decided that included the non-existence of other property rights such as real estate or financial accounts and decided to just help myself at your expense? I think not! Theft is theft, buster. No way you can dress that one up no matter how much paint and perfume you pour on it.

Obviously I'm neither libertarian, anarchist, nor nihilist. But you should think about the logical consequences of ideas before you pollute the atmosphere with garbage. Otherwise all the other lofty talk you dish out is nothing more than tinkling brass. I know an empty suit when I see one.

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #107)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 09:45 PM

108. RFK's message is one of reconciliation and purpose.

Purpose above politics. Work together toward a common goal rather than fight with one another.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #108)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 09:57 PM

111. What you've done is get your licks in and then tell others to shut up and swallow it.

Now free yourself of any illusions of leadership because you've totally exposed yourself as unfitting.

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #96)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 08:32 PM

99. Jeez

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Response to pintobean (Reply #99)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 08:37 PM

101. I don't give a rat's ass if you like it or not.

There's a critical issue of principle at stake here. We're not each other's pawns, dammit! If you don't respect other people's rights, you can't respect yourself or anything else.

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #101)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 08:44 PM

102. May I use that

or is it copyrighted?

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Response to pintobean (Reply #102)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 09:07 PM

104. Where's that "puke" icon when I need it?

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #104)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 09:18 PM

105. You have to

send a permission request to admin if you want to use that emoticon.

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Response to IrishAyes (Reply #96)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 09:28 PM

106. WOW! That's some serious chit!

I wonder if we can get admin to pin this at the top of the forum.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 08:26 PM

98. President Clinton: Speech at the 25th Anniversary Memorial Mass for Robert F. Kennedy (June 6, 1993)

Well worth the read, I'm posting a few choice lines below, emphasis is mine.

The full transcript is here: http://millercenter.org/president/speeches/detail/4565

...As I looked around this crowd today and saw us all graced not only by the laughter of children but by the tears of those of us old enough to remember, it struck me again that the memory of Robert Kennedy is so powerful that in a profound way we are all in two places today. We are here and now, and we are there, then.

snip

He spoke out against neglect, but he challenged the neglected to seize their own destiny. He wanted so badly for Government to act, but he did not trust bureaucracy. And he believed that Government had to do things with people, not for them. He knew we had to do things together or not at all. He spoke to the sons and daughters of immigrants and the sons and daughters of sharecroppers and told them all, "As long as you stay apart from each other, you will never be what you ought to be."

He saw the word not in terms of right and left but right and wrong. And he taught us lessons that cannot be labeled except as powerful proof. Robert Kennedy reminded us that on any day, in any place, at any time, racism is wrong, exploitation is wrong, violence is wrong, anything that denies the simple humanity and potential of any man or woman is wrong.

snip

If you listen now you can hear with me his voice telling me and telling you and telling everyone here, "We can do better." Today's troubles call us to do better. The legacy of Robert Kennedy is a stem rebuke to the cynicism, to the trivialization that grips so much of our public life today. What use is it in the face of the aching problems gripping millions of Americans, the American without a job, the American without health care, the American without a safe street to live on or a good school to send a child to? What use is it in the face of all the divisions that keep our country down and rob our children of their rightful future?

Let us learn here once again the simple, powerful, beautiful lesson, the simple faith of Robert Kennedy: We can do better. Let us leave here no longer in two places, but once again in one only: in the here and now, with a commitment to tomorrow, the only part of our time that we can control. Let us embrace the memory of Robert Kennedy by living as he would have us to live. For the sake of his memory, of ourselves, and of all of our children and all those to come, let us believe again, we can do better.


The man was, quite simply, transcendent.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #98)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 09:53 PM

110. And you, quite simply, have betrayed him. As well as yourself.

When I feel the need for moral or intellectual instruction, I won't waste my time looking in your direction.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sun Sep 29, 2013, 10:02 PM

113. REMARKABLE: "Landmark for Peace Memorial", Indianapolis, on site of RFK's speech"

I didn't know about this before today. I stumbled upon it while doing some research into the two remarkable men.



The Landmark for Peace is a memorial sculpture at Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Park on the northside of Indianapolis that honors the contributions of the slain leaders Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and Robert F. Kennedy. The memorial, which features King and Kennedy reaching out to each other, was designed and executed by Indiana artist Greg Perry. The bronze portraits were created by Indianapolis sculptor Daniel Edwards.

On April 4, 1968, near the site of the memorial, Robert Kennedy gave an impromptu speech to an inner-city crowd about reconciliation between the races after he learned of King's assassination. Kennedy was told that riots had broken out in other cities and was advised not to make the speech, but he refused to cancel his plans. Originally Kennedy intended to make a speech on his presidential aspirations, instead he spoke of King. No riots took place in Indianapolis, a fact many attribute to the effect of Kennedy's speech.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landmark_for_Peace_Memorial



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