I would avoid a store where people are openly carrying guns

[CreekDog]

Visually, there is no difference between someone with a gun that plans to use it and someone who doesn't.

The safer thing is just to avoid them and if they are in a store or wherever, I can go elsewhere.

And while this does nothing about someone with a concealed weapon, I didn't say my act would be 100% effective, just prudent. With respect to whether one is openly carrying or concealed, I'm simply in this case, acting on the information available to me, or choosing to ignore it.

I choose to act on what I can see. So be it, in this society where shootings are a fact of life, removing oneself from the presence of an openly carried gun has some logic behind it.

[djean111]

1. Earlier this year I saw a guy carrying a gun in Publix, not a security guy.

So I left.
I think it is stupid to just keep shopping and hope the gun guy is not deranged or whatever.
Or hope someone doesn't piss him off or whatever.
Life in America.

[Arkansas Granny]

2. I think I would do the same. I would be sure to tell the store manager why I was leaving.

[Chuuku Davis]

4. Right now

Open carry is not legal in Arkansas

[Art_from_Ark]

11. Thank goodness for that

Although there are some wacky state senators who are trying to change that.

[Arkansas Granny]

17. That's true now, but you never know when that might change.

The gun nuts are getting nuttier and nuttier.

[Fla Dem]

147. Me too! I would take my basket with what I had already selected to the customer service counter and

tell them I'm leaving because there is person walking around in their store with a gun. No one can know how stable an individual is, what their motivations are or how they will react to any given situation. I would rather leave than find out.

[tosh]

5. This whole "open carry" thing

seems deranged to me.

I truly don't understand it.

[Art_from_Ark]

28. Too many John Wayne movies

Too many people envision themselves as some type of rootin'-tootin', pistol-packin' hero.

[Squinch]

32. Apparently they're doing it to "educate" us that guns aren't dangerous.

Seems to me that any guy who has to open carry his big fat gun when he goes out to buy a cup of coffee is by definition an asshole whose judgment I wouldn't trust.

I'd take my business elsewhere.

[Eleanors38]

41. The other day, some controller/banners said they PREFERRED OC.

Kinda prefer concealed myself, but some controllers attach some sort of courage of conviction thingy to Open carry.

Maybe you should check with folks in Bansalot and develop consensus as to which method deserves the most character attack.

[CreekDog]

60. so you just said that gun control proponents value open carry?

maybe make sense next post?

[Eleanors38]

121. Hey, it's a poll within your castellated walls. Take a look.

[CreekDog]

126. No wonder you want to carry guns everywhere --you clearly won't get by on your wits alone

I also recommend that if you want to be seen as the tough guy you think you are:

That you not blame me for you making an argument that didn't make sense and lacked any syntax.

Remember, to serve your point of view, you must have credibility and make good arguments.

If one doesn't have those, the most they can accomplish is trolling, which of course, you would never, ever want to do in a thread about guns.

[Eleanors38]

128. Oh, you're just being silly. I'll take my deficient syntax over your sports writing.

[pintobean]

134. Maybe you should do a another poll

to show your credibility, good arguments, and non-trolling skills.

[CreekDog]

143. the recommends and responses in this thread show what most here believe

and your opposition to that, as usual, puts you on the other side of opinion here.

[pintobean]

145. Show me

where I'm opposed to anyone's opinion about how to handle seeing someone open carry in a store. Anyone can handle it the way they see fit, as long as it's legal. The fact that you have to make stuff up about other DUers says a lot about your credibility. You've done it to me twice in this thread. I think it's pretty pathetic.

[Squinch]

102. So by your logic, to call ourselves Democrats, we should probably develop unanimous

consensus about all the issues we talk about here.

Will that meeting be at your house?

PS, downthread someone says he's a gun owner and would never feel the need to carry a gun into a store. You might want to check in with him and let him know what the gungeon consensus is about what gun owning folks are allowed to say about these things. Because, you know, that's how it works, right?

[Eleanors38]

120. I see no logic at all in your verbal mix master...

I merely suggested you and your cohorts come up with some kind of consensus on OC or CC so that your aspersions and insults would be more consistently aligned; in fact, some poll is going down in Bansalot now.

Frankly, this is not all that important to me, but there seems to be pointed disagreement on your side of the moat. That someone "over here" goes into a store with or without a gun doesn't elicit much desire for insult or raise much interest.

How's that poll going?

[Squinch]

149. I am not aware of the poll, but I'll let everyone know that we're meeting at your house.

[Eleanors38]

152. As long as you're buying!

[malaise]

132. It is deranged

but lil dicks want to be seen.

[HockeyMom]

7. If you are in Florida, open carry is illegal

at the very least you could have told Publix management or call the police yourself. Personally, I would rather see open carry so I could AVOID them. You cannot avoid somebody with a gun in public when you cannot see whether they are carrying or not. Sneaky and devious, but I guess they don't want to be shunned so that is their plan.

[rl6214]

114. Sneaky and devious?

How about following the law?

[CreekDog]

12. same here basically

[Ilsa]

43. I'd leave too, and call the store and tell them why. nt

[BlueJazz]

94. The strange thing to me is: IF a person is deranged and truly wants to "Go Postal", the FIRST...

..people he/she would want to kill would be the people who can protect themselves/shoot back.

...therefore, the people who are trying to prove something (by carrying guns) will be the first ones to die.

I wonder if these yahoos think about THAT?

[Chuuku Davis]

3. Just curious, where do you live??

That you have folks open carrying in the stores?

[CreekDog]

13. why does this refer to where I live?

in recent months, I've been in several different states and another country.

[Gormy Cuss]

45. California.

I saw the doughy surburbanites lined up to go into Starbucks. Most people around them just stared. Some left.
Myself, I see a fool with a gun and no uniform I'm not taking any chances.

Apparently it's legal here only if the weapons are unloaded.

[Link Speed]

59. OK, now that is really weird

Who in the world thinks it is cool to tote an unloaded firearm? I would guess that it would be someone with a really fucked-up childhood/adolescence.

I am a gun owner and know many others. I do not know a single person who would carry openly.

Is that really a CA law? I live in serious Wine Country and have never seen any regular citizen (non-LEO, Security, etc.) carrying a weapon. Of course, half of us have them in our vehicles.

I am a combat vet, a gun-owner and carrier, but there is just no way I am going into any establishment (except ranges) if there is some idiot jerking off in public or someone openly carrying a firearm.

Heck, those two acts probably run parallel tracks.

[Gormy Cuss]

61. The reporting of the event quoted LE.

As long as they're unloaded it was legal. I agree though -- what's the point of open carry if the weapons can't be loaded other than making a statement about gun control laws?

on edit: I think this was before the law was changed in 2011.

[Link Speed]

73. It just dawned on me

So, it's legal to walk a round with a serious firearm slung over your shoulder.

Let some teen of color walk down an Oakland sidewalk with a baseball bat over his shoulder.

Hmmm...

[Squinch]

75. Or Skittles.

[rl6214]

116. Or skittles and watermelon drink.

[NealK]

84. Teen of color with a baseball bat?

[petronius]

106. That law in CA has changed - it's generally not legal to open-carry either

a handgun or a long gun (rifle, shotgun) whether loaded or unloaded. There are exceptions, of course - for example in hunting areas, or if you have a permit to OC - but overall it's pretty much prohibited...

On edit: the general prohibition on OCing handguns went into effect 1/1/2012; for long guns it started 1/1/2013.

[Gormy Cuss]

150. yep, I noted that above

The incident I witnessed was before that law went into effect but probably not by much. I think it was two years ago.

[kentuck]

6. Oh Hell Yes!!!

If they allow guns in their business, they have lost mine!!!

[djean111]

14. Florida.

I am not sure any more what is legal, it seems like a shooting gallery here.
I just left because I didn't feel like getting some fucking "right to bear arms" lecture.
I mean, what if someone threatened the guy with a shopping cart.

[Jenoch]

35. If you saw someone open carrying in Florida

where open carry by the public is illegal. You probably saw an LEO. There is a current thread about a guy in bank with a gun and a bank customer screwed up when he tried to inform the teller about the guy with the gun. It turned out to be a U.S. Marshall.

[djean111]

36. You know what? It doesn't matter to me.

It could just as easily be a nutcase. There is no way to know, without going up to a person and asking. A U.S. Marshall should be easily identified as such.
IMO the bank customer did not screw up.

[Jenoch]

44. Why should a U.S. Marshall always be easily identified?

You do realize that part of their job is to capture federal fugitives?

If you read about the bank customer, he was arrested and later not charged. He screwed up. He hands the teller a note that said "man with gun". He took the note back. He said something to the teller about a gun and then left the bank. He needed to follow up. He made something that was not a problem into a huge problem for the local police and the bank.



"You know what? It doesn't matter to me."

If it doesn't matter to you, then why are you posting on this thread?

[djean111]

48. So I should just think that a random guy with a gun in a grocery store is a U.S. Marshall?

In any event, I just left, and I would just leave if it happens again.
It doesn't matter to me if the guy with a gun could be a federal Marshall - I would just leave.
That is why I am posting in this thread.

[Jenoch]

52. You certainly can make that choice for yourself.

I'd continue to shop and not let anyone else bother me.

Apparently I can't use the 'H' word on DU, but the sight of a gun does not send me into fear mode.

[CreekDog]

64. you said the bank customer screwed up by not knowing a US Marshall when he saw one

you said it.

bank customer screwed up.

screwed up.

screwed up.

[Jenoch]

117. I did not write that bank customer screwed up because

he did not know a U.S. Marshall when he saw one. I said a bank customer screwed up when he passed a note to a bank teller with the word 'gun' on it and then took the note back and said the word 'gun' to the teller and then left the bank without explaining his actions.

[djean111]

66. Well the OP was written by someone who said they would leave the store.

I replied that this had happened to me, and I calmly left the store.
It never occurred to me that I could not make that choice for myself, don't know why it was necessary for you to say that.....

Living here in Florida, the sight of a gun sends me into fear mode. I was never much of a gambler.

And my son has PTSD because someone pointed a gun at his face and pulled the trigger - the gun did not fire, but the result was pretty bad. My son was working by himself, rehabbing an old house in Ybor City, and a guy with a gun thought that perhaps he could help himself to my son's wallet and/or tools (to pawn). So he came up behind him and said hey and when my son turned around he was looking into the barrel of a gun. When the gun didn't fire, my son ran one way and the asshole thief ran the other way. Thank goodness.

Wouldn't want to be around if a marshall was shooting at a wanted guy, either.

[awoke_in_2003]

37. In that case I would still leave...

LEOs records arent much better

[CreekDog]

63. why is a bank customer expected to know that it was a US Marshall?

is he in uniform, is he wearing a sign?

[Jenoch]

101. Of course a bank customer is not expected

to be able to identify a LEO (though I believe I could). A bank customer should not give a teller a note with the word 'gun' on it, take it back, and say the word 'gun' to a teller and leave the bank without explaining his actions. Lots of attempted bank robbers chicken out midway through their attempt at ill gotten gains. It is entirely plausible that is what the teller assumed. She could not verify what happened because the hoplophobe bank customer left the bank without explanation.

(Is the use of a word as my opinion of a person in a news story an offense worthy of hiding?)

[99Forever]

8. I don't leave when I see some idiotic jerk carrying a gun...

... I complain to the management that if they do not prohibit such dangerous and asinine behavior, I will take my business elsewhere, permanently. It's happened twice. Both are restaurants and now have "Firearms are not permitted on these premises." displayed on their entrances.

Fuck the NRA.

[RedCappedBandit]

9. Yup. I'm glad I live in a state where this shit doesn't happen.

For those who do live in those states.. might as well let the businesses know that allowing this to occur in their stores is bad for profits.

[Throd]

71. There are plenty of people packing in your state. Their guns are just hidden.

For the record, I think the open carry zealots are just a bunch of blowhards, but I'm more worried about the person that wants to hide a gun.

[RedCappedBandit]

131. We're posting in a thread about open carry.

[RedFury]

148. Perhaps.

But if you think about it can go both ways. The OC folks strike as clearly more confrontational, as in "yeah, I just stepped in front of you at the check-out 'cuase I'm in a rush and mine is more important than yours, besides, see the cannon I've got got strapped to my waist? M-A-K-E M-Y D-A-Y, Mother Fucker.

[UTUSN]

10. R#5 & K for, yip, it's going to have to be the corporate owners to shut down the gun loons

That is, like when they realize we're staying away with cash in our pockets. Like Starbucks.

[GreenStormCloud]

46. Starbucks has not changed their policy.

The CEO wrote a meaningless letter designed to fake the gun-controllers into thinking he was doing something.

[UTUSN]

57. Let's not waste each other's time with this exchange.

What part of "[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]request that customers no longer bring firearms[/FONT] into our stores or outdoor seating areas." and "[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]we do not want these events in our stores[/FONT]." are NOT a change of their policies (not a question).

********QUOTE******

[font size=5]Posted by Howard Schultz, Starbucks chairman, president and chief executive officer[/font]

Tuesday, September 17, 2013

Dear Fellow Americans,

Few topics in America generate a more polarized and emotional debate than guns. In recent months, [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Starbucks[/FONT] stores and our partners (employees) who work in our stores [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]have been thrust unwillingly into the middle[/FONT] of this debate. That’s why I am writing today with a respectful [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]request that customers no longer bring firearms[/FONT] into our stores or outdoor seating areas.

From the beginning, our vision at Starbucks has been to create a “third place” between home and work where people can come together to enjoy the peace and pleasure of coffee and community. [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Our values have always centered on building community rather than dividing[/FONT] people, and our stores exist to give every customer a safe and [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]comfortable respite[/FONT] from the concerns of daily life.

We appreciate that there is a highly sensitive [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]balance of rights and responsibilities[/FONT] surrounding America’s gun laws, and we recognize the deep passion for and against the “open carry” laws adopted by many states. (In the United States, “open carry” is the term used for openly carrying a firearm in public.) For years we have listened carefully to input from our customers, partners, community leaders and voices on both sides of this complicated, highly charged issue.

Our company’s longstanding approach to “open carry” has been to follow local laws: we permit it in states where allowed and we prohibit it in states where these laws don’t exist. We have chosen this approach because we believe our store partners should not be put in the uncomfortable position of requiring customers to disarm or leave our stores. We believe that gun policy [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]should be addressed by government and law enforcement — not by Starbucks[/FONT] and our store partners.

Recently, however, we’ve seen the [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]“open carry” debate become increasingly uncivil and[/FONT], in some cases, even [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]threatening. Pro-gun activists have used our stores as a political stage for media events misleadingly called[/FONT] “Starbucks [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Appreciation Days[/FONT]” that [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]disingenuously[/FONT] portray Starbucks as a champion of “open carry.” To be clear: [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]we do not want these events in our stores[/FONT]. Some anti-gun activists have also played a role in [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]ratcheting up the rhetoric and friction[/FONT], including soliciting and confronting our customers and partners.

For these reasons, today we are respectfully requesting that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas—even in states where “open carry” is permitted—unless they are authorized law enforcement personnel.

I would like to clarify two points. First, this is a request and not an outright ban. Why? Because we want to give responsible gun owners the chance to respect our request—and also because enforcing a ban would potentially require our partners to confront armed customers, and that is not a role I am comfortable asking Starbucks partners to take on. Second, we know we cannot satisfy everyone. For those who oppose “open carry,” we believe the legislative and policy-making process is the proper arena for this debate, not our stores. For those who champion “open carry,” please respect that Starbucks stores are places where everyone should feel relaxed and comfortable. The presence of [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]a weapon in our stores is unsettling and upsetting[/FONT] for many of our customers.

I am proud of our country and our heritage of civil discourse and debate. It is in this spirit that we make today’s request. Whatever your view, I encourage you to be responsible and respectful of each other as citizens and neighbors.

Sincerely,

Howard Schultz

*************UNQUOTE******

[GreenStormCloud]

83. Perhaps you should read it carefully.

From the letter: First, this is a request and not an outright ban.

Official policy has not changed.

From the letter:
Our company’s longstanding approach to “open carry” has been to follow local laws: we permit it in states where allowed and we prohibit it in states where these laws don’t exist. We have chosen this approach because we believe our store partners should not be put in the uncomfortable position of requiring customers to disarm or leave our stores. We believe that gun policy should be addressed by government and law enforcement — not by Starbucks and our store partners.

Official policy has not changed.

[CreekDog]

67. how do you know that people who don't want to see open carrying of guns are in favor of gun control?

do you read minds?

supporting various laws and measures to control guns is not the same as not liking open carrying in every place of business.

what evidence do you have that the people you refer to are all gun control advocates?

[msanthrope]

15. Both times I have had this happen to me I made sure I left, called and then spoke with the

manager, explaining why I had left and was calling, and then.....I YELPED the stores. Both stores later posted signs.

[northoftheborder]

16. That's what I would do also, luckily haven't had the opportunity.

[shenmue]

18. Me too

I just want to go into a store and get a sandwich and a drink, not worry about people who think they're in a movie fantasy or something.

[JEFF9K]

19. Unless those openly carried guns are drawn and pointed they are a target for people who want but ...

... can't get guns.

[CreekDog]

68. wait for them to start shooting before getting concerned?

well, no.

[Throd]

20. Point and laugh at them. They're not going to shoot you.

[Brigid]

30. You wanna take s bet on that?

I wouldn't.

[Throd]

51. I would. They want to intimidate people, not spend prison in life for first degree murder.

[truebluegreen]

70. You think George Zimmerman is the only wannabe / whack out there?

I assume for safety's sake that anyone who feels the need to OC has inferiority issues and can't be trusted. I leave.

[Throd]

74. George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin under the cover of darkness with no witnesses.

That is why he isn't in prison right now.

[truebluegreen]

86. I admit to a bad example.

Still doesn't make me think people flaunting their firearms in public are really right in the head.

[GreenStormCloud]

95. There were witnesses. The trail was heavily covered here on DU.

John Good was watching when the shot was fired. He was only a few feet away.

His complete testimoney is here:

[CreekDog]

105. "The Trail"

so much for your credibility.

[GreenStormCloud]

107. So I made a typo. Big deal.

If that's all you got, then you got nothing.

[Squinch]

33. Oh, yeah. That's sensible.

I've had guns pointed at me. I'd just as soon not have it happen again.

[Throd]

53. So have I, but not by some self-important blowhard trying to make a point.

[awoke_in_2003]

39. Yeah, and I will tell a cop to go fuck himself...

neither seems very sensible.

[etherealtruth]

21. I would leave and complain to management on my way out

Mercifully, I have not encountered this here in Michigan ... we did encounter this in Virginia. Our children were young and we simply would get the hell out of where ever we were (1990s).

they are all good guys with guns until they are psychos with guns ... I don't want to be around when that happens

[EvilAL]

23. I don't know what you mean by

your last line.
Do you think that most gun owners are prone to become 'psychos with guns'?

[etherealtruth]

25. Really ... you don't understand ...?

Last edited Thu Sep 26, 2013, 10:13 PM - Edit history (1)

To use an example from Michigan r/t to two 'good guys" with legal guns:

Pair of men with concealed-carry permits engage in shootout
this is the correct link:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/19/michigan-concealed-carry-road-rage-two-dead_n_3956491.html

This is the wrong link I originally posted
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/pair-of-men-with-concealed-carry-permits-engage-in-rolling-road-rage-shootout-b9953189z1-215267661.html

Both of these men had CCW permits and were considered "good guys with guns" ... until they were psychos with guns. Both are dead.

[EvilAL]

31. Maybe it's the 'good guys with guns'

thing I don't understand. I remember something about 'good guys with guns can stop bad guys with guns'. Which is a ridiculous statement, but it seems like you kind of expect the 'good guys with guns' (open carrying) to have some kind of predisposition to going full psycho and shooting people. I live in Canada, we have a lot of guns, but nobody can carry them in public, so maybe I'm missing something here..

[Squinch]

34. So now imagine a bunch of guys going into Starbucks and showing off their guns because they

want to make a point. They seem to all be saying that they want to "educate" the public that guns aren't something they need to fear. This, it turns out, is what the NRA told them to do.

Do you trust them? I don't know them. Maybe they haven't been irresponsible with their guns before. Maybe they have. Maybe they'll get through their Latte without shooting someone. Maybe not.

The point is that all those guys who end up shooting their foot off in line at Target consider themselves to be "good guys with guns."

[EvilAL]

77. I just don't think I'd see it that way

as if they were 'showing off their guns'. Then again I've never seen anyone with a handgun at Tim Horton's either. If it was legal here to carry, I don't think it would bother me.

[Squinch]

96. And if you saw 10 guys with guns at Tim Horton's?

Are you sure you wouldn't see it as them showing off their guns?

http://interactives.kxan.com/photomojo/gallery/8993/174463/openly-carrying-guns/group-exercise-open-carry-gun-rights/

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-appreciation-day-newtown-starbucks-2013-8

My personal favorite was when they gathered at the Newtown, CT Starbucks to "educate" the people whose 6-year-olds were shot about how they shouldn't be afraid of guns.

[Southpaw07]

42. Actually neither is dead.

Apparently not very good shots. Also odd that only one is being charged.

Thankfully NY open carry is restricted. I am pretty sure I would leave if I ever saw anyone walking near me with a firearm.

[etherealtruth]

55. Actually, you would know they were both dead had I copied the correct link to the michigan case

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/19/michigan-concealed-carry-road-rage-two-dead_n_3956491.html

Sorry, I got distracted and copied a link to a story I wasn't even aware of.

[Southpaw07]

135. No problem.

Obviously no shortage of links for idiots with guns.

[pintobean]

136. Enforcement of existing law may have prevented that incident.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023712169#post61

I wouldn't call a man who died trying to defend himself and his family a psycho.

[MsPithy]

62. Law enforcement constantly trains to fire guns in an appropriate manner.

These civilian yahoos who need to carry are idiots who think they are Harry Callahan. I will not be in an establishment with them, they are fucking dangerous.

[EvilAL]

82. Aren't law enforcement people 'civilians' too?

yahoos?
idiots?
fucking dangerous?

[Recursion]

99. The police in your town "constantly train"? Wow. Mine go to the range every 3 years

Where does your department find the money?

[tblue37]

103. Cops are lousy shots. Remember the hail of

bullets they sprayed at the truck of the women delivering newspapers? Only one--pretty much accidentally--hit either one. Or the cops who shot at a suspect in Times Square. Their shots went everywhere. I don't remember how many bystanders ended up wounded, but of course they missed their actual targets.

[Hekate]

130. It's a reference to Wayne La Pierre's statement after the Sandy Hook Elemen. School massacre

I think it was La Pierre. Anyway it was the NRA's stance that "Only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun." That's a quote. It gets referred to a lot because it is so unbelievably outrageous -- particularly since those children's bodies were scarcely cold when he said it.

So yeah -- The good guy with a gun. Inquiring minds want to know how the hell is the average person supposed to tell the difference in time to not get blown to bits by the other kind of guy with a gun. The average person is not a mind reader, and psychos and criminals typically don't wear a sign indicating their intentions or drool or lurch or do anything particularly obvious. Until they start, you know, murdering people.

[rrneck]

22. In the pantheon of things I have to worry about

that's way down the list.

[cynatnite]

24. I would most definitely leave...especially if I had one of my grandchildren with me....

How am I to know what someone's intentions are when they walk in with a gun? How can I automatically assume that they mean me or my family no harm?

[Eleanors38]

47. Intentions: esp. If they have a gun concealed. Ignorance is bliss?

[cynatnite]

65. I thought about that, too, but openly carrying gets me thinking of mass shootings...

and scares the hell out of me.

Maybe you're right...ignorance is bliss.

[Eleanors38]

100. In most mass shootings, the weapon (long gun or handgun) was hidden.

Either by taking down (easy with a pump shotgun), "packaging" in a handtruck, carrying in packs, etc. In fact, if a mass murderer approached a target in a conventional open-carry manner, he/she would likely be spotted earlier.
Stopping or ameliorating the effects of mass murders is a diff. Kettle of fish when compared with the littany of daily murders. Precautions for one only occasionally overlap with the precautions for the other.

[GreenStormCloud]

26. I would continue shopping.

Unless the guy with the gun were acting weird. Then I would leave.

[djean111]

40. I think that waiting until the weirdness starts is too late.

[katmondoo]

27. I would leave

[Duckhunter935]

29. Up my awareness and

continue shopping. It is legal but stupid. They want attention and I refuse to give it to them.

[Jenoch]

38. I'd take a good look at the guy and attempt

to figure out why he was armed. I'd continue to shop and go on my way. If the guy looked to be up to something nefarious, I'd inform the store manager and then leave. I don't believe that a man with a gun is automatticially a danger to everyone in the store.

The only stores I have been in where I have seen people open carrying a weapon on their hip is in gun stores.

[Eleanors38]

50. Same here. But I've lived in 2 states where OC is not allowed -- Texas & Florida.

[Jenoch]

56. Minnesota has had a CCW law for ten years.

The CCW permit also allows someone to open carry. I have never seen anyone do so out in public. Like I posted, I have seen people with guns on their hips in gun stores, and nowhere else.

[Eleanors38]

122. My experience as well. nt

[CreekDog]

141. so everyone who open carries isn't a dangerous person, but a Minnesota CCW holder

got it!!!

you are so awesome. we can all ignore all guns being carried openly forever now!

you have eased our minds.

[Jenoch]

142. I don't understand your point.

I never see people open carrying in Minnesota. The only people who can legally open carry are LEOs and CCWs. The CCWs are told to NOT open carry when they take the class to get their CCW so I don't really understand why the law is written the way that it is.

If my posts has helped to ease your anxiety over open carry, well I guess that's good for you.

[CreekDog]

144. just keep changing the subject, keep acting like you forgot the post you made minutes ago

just keep on moving, keep on obfuscating, clutter up the thread with new arguments that don't make sense and when confronted on their illogic, ask what the person is talking about.

[go west young man]

49. A quote from the Tao of Bruce Lee

"The greatest form of self defense is to have never found yourself in the situation in the first place".

I too would avoid anyone walking around a store with a gun.

[truebluegreen]

81. ^This^

I remember my sensei telling us a (possibly apocryphal) story about Bruce Lee. When he was at the height of his fame, living in Hong Kong, he would frequently be challenged by others, for bragging rights I guess. On one occasion, he was accosted on a dark street. Instead of engaging, he feinted, to get the other guy on his back foot, and then ran like hell.

This was, according to Sensei, appropriate and admirable behavior.

[pintobean]

54. I would avoid any building where people are openly carrying

staplers. You never know if some psycho will burn the place down.

[CreekDog]

69. disingenuous

you are saying something you don't believe to mock most people in this thread.

[pintobean]

76. Lighten up Francis

I'm not mocking anyone.

[CreekDog]

119. well that would be a refreshing change

[NealK]

91. Is this supposed to be funny?

[CreekDog]

140. he gets upset when I criticize something to the right of me.

[madrchsod]

72. i`d walk out of any store where someone would openly carry

[NealK]

78. I would leave too and let them know why.

[cheapdate]

79. I live in Tennessee, where our lunatic General Assembly has passed

something like 10 or 12 gun laws in the past few years. You can carry guns into parks, into bars and restaurants, onto your employer's property (whether he likes it or not), etc.

Whenever I see some fool with his gun at Publix, or Applebees, or whatever, my first thought is, what a douche. My second thought is, how fucking crazy is this douche? Is he fighting with his ex? Did he just lose his job?

Morons.

[toby jo]

80. How would our guy handle "Oh, look, he DOES have a dick, I didn't see it at first, but it's right

there, hangin on the outside!".

Sooner or later, somebody'd drop it.

[CreekDog]

93. has that been known to kill a dozen people in minutes?

well obviously it seems like a good analogy to you.

but that's your limitation.

[Eleanors38]

123. Thar she blows! The 231' foot Penis of Doom!

[CreekDog]

139. which is as seriously as anyone here should take any of your posts in this thread

Mr. I chose my screen name to honor Eleanor Roosevelt's gun. Not Eleanor, but her gun because when I see her, that's what most impresses me about her --her gun.

[Eleanors38]

146. You just keep tryin' and tryin' and tryin.' Well, try reading this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12593500

So long and hard have the banners tried to get rid of pro-2A Democrats, so long have they tried to turn DU into a forum for anti-gun doctrine and theology, so long have they gotten special dispensation.

Could this be the end of Ricco?

[Recursion]

85. I dunno. Guns I can see don't bother me that much.

Frankly, I'm more worried about getting struck by lightning while being eaten by a bear than about a random mass shooting (and rightly so). Besides that, anybody who isn't making an effort to hide the fact that he has a gun isn't really matching my "threat" profile.

[AlinPA]

88. Pls see my post #87 below. That wouldn't bother you?

[Recursion]

90. Keep in mind I grew up in a place where you'd see that most Saturdays

People stopping in for breakfast before they go hunting.

Now, in DC, where by definition that's illegal? That changes things. But in a place where it's legal? Meh.

[CreekDog]

89. shootings in this country are as rare as being struck by lightning while being eaten by a bear?

the statistics say you're wrong.

you'd be right if you were in Europe or Canada, but in the United States, you are far more likely to be shot than the scenario you described.

[Recursion]

92. *Random mass shootings*, the kind where a person I don't know will sneak up and shoot me

Obviously nobody actually gets struck by lightning while being eaten by a bear, but if you multiply the probabilities out it's roughly comparable (a dozen a year).

[CreekDog]

97. My OP didn't say mass, random shooting, don't play games with DUers here

the game you're trying to play is to say that I said something that I didn't.

and even if we granted your ridiculous statement, there are many, many people killed by random mass shootings in the past year.

and none struck by lightning while being eaten by a bear.

so apparently you can't read and you don't really know the probabilities you want us to believe.

maybe your argument would do better if someone else makes it for you.

to preserve your credibility. well, the credibility you had.

before you went down this road.

too late. pity.

[Recursion]

98. No, actually, very few people are killed by strangers every year, which was my point

Stop trying to force my argument into being what you want it to be rather than what I'm saying.

I argued that I'm not particularly afraid of a stranger legally carrying a gun because being shot by a stranger is about as likely as, again, being struck by lightning while being eaten by a bear. The fact that you say "nobody gets struck by lightning while being eaten by a bear" tells me you haven't taken a probability class, but there we go.

[GreenStormCloud]

109. Since we are talking about lightning.

You are more likely to be struck by lightning than you are to be illegally shot and killed by a person with a CCW.

[CreekDog]

138. so you're limiting your stat to CCW's now?

nice try.

very obvious too.

[ecstatic]

112. You obviously grew up in a culture where guns were common

I wasn't born on a farm. Nobody I know hunts. I'm a city gal, and around here, guns are used to kill people. Naturally, I'm going to become extremely concerned and worried if a stranger (or a cop) with a gun comes near me.

It's true that I'm probably surrounded by dozens of concealed carriers at any given moment, but if I don't know about it, then my instinctive aversion to guns isn't activated.

[AlinPA]

87. If someone walks into my local CVS drugstore holding a shotgun, I would do more than just "avoid".

I'd try to get out of there with my grandchildren. Carrying a shotgun or handgun in their hands is not normal.

[gopiscrap]

104. Me too!

[petronius]

108. If the gun was the only 'unusual' thing about them, then I'd go about my

business without concern. But if the person (and this applies exactly the same whether or not they had a gun) was exhibiting behavior that appeared dangerous, threatening, or erratic, I'd act - either by watching, leaving, calling security/police...

[ecstatic]

110. The open carry crowd doesn't understand that they're slowly destroying what we love

about this country. Most of us don't live in a warzone where we have to be armed to the teeth, with bullet proof vests on, etc. They don't understand that their actions are pushing us in that direction, because people won't want to feel vulnerable to the open carriers who are showing up to more and more places with their guns (in a time when there is a least 1 mass shooting every month).

If that's the type of atmosphere open carriers want, why not move to Afghanistan or wherever open carry is truly a necessity?

[Eleanors38]

124. Do you really feel pushed to "arm to the teeth" and "wear bullet proof vests?"

Gosh, we gunners are accused of being fearful, then I hear This? Well, I hope you sleep well tonight. I will.

[NYC_SKP]

111. How many times in your life have you been in a store and seen a person carrying a firearm openly?

I don't think I ever have.

[Recursion]

113. Deer season

Some stores said "leave it in the truck"; others didn't care.

[NYC_SKP]

115. I supposed it's possible that I've seen them and just not cared or been alarmed.

If I'm in the Sierras during deer season, maybe I have seen it and not cared.

If I was in a Starbucks in Pleasanton, OTOH, I would notice.

The assholes who do it to make a statement are, clearly, making matters worse for legitimate gun rights supporters.

It almost makes me think that they're not sincere.

[CreekDog]

118. and this is relevant why?

people in this thread have posted that they have seen this.

furthermore, there is among gun advocates increasing attention to these open carry type events and the talking up of the practice in general.

so this is hardly a remote possibility.

[avaistheone1]

125. I would get the hell out of that store as discretely and quickly as possible if I saw someone had a

gun. No doubts about that whatsoever.


k&r

[Hekate]

129. You've got plenty of company, CreekDog. There's a streak of madness in America's makeup.

There's some guy in Oregon walking up and down the sidewalk in front of an elementary school carrying a rifle. When I read the article several days ago, eight different residents on that street had called the cops, and the cops had let it be known that the rifleman was within his rights to do what he was doing.

Any rational person knows that the teachers and students are being terrified by his presence. Just since 2000, and counting only those where 3 or more were killed, here's the list. Not all of these names leap out at you, do they? But enough of them are right in the front of our minds that you would think it would be understood that vulnerable people are being terrified -- and he knows it, and the cops know it. Nonetheless there were DUers in that thread who vehemently defended this behavior as his "right."

Just going through this list makes my stomach hurt.

Thurston HS Oregon,
Columbine HS Colorado,
Santana HS California,
Red Lake HS Minnesota,
Amish School Pennsylvania,
Virginia Tech,
Northern Illinois University,
University of Alabama Huntsville,
Chardon HS Ohio,
Oikos University California,
Sandy Hook Elementary School Connecticut,
Hazard Community College Kentucky,
Santa Monica College California.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

Madness.

[B Calm]

133. I would be more likely to go to stores who post no guns on premises!

[tk2kewl]

137. no one open carries anywhere near where i live but i am with you on this.

[gopiscrap]

151. me too