I grew up playing Grand Theft Auto...

[Gravitycollapse]

For several months I spent about 3 hours a day playing GTA III and completed all of the missions. I was also obsessed, as were many of my friends, with Grand Theft Auto Vice City and Grand Theft Auto San Andreas. All of this occurred while I was between the ages of 13 and 18.

I moved to college before GTA IV came out and I could no longer afford video games or a TV.

I do not think I've become a violent person, per say, even though I spent hundreds or even thousands of hours on the games.

However, and this is the kicker, I have no doubt in my mind that the game altered my perception of reality. That it altered how I view firearms, gang culture and violence against women.

Our personalities are not formed by a few life interactions. They are created through an immeasurable number of events and trends. What this means is my game playing did not define any explicit sort of violence in my psyche. But that doesn't mean it had no effect at all.

What did I experience with GTA?

Digital versions of:

Murder
Rape
Assault
Sexual exploitation
Spree killing
Theft (of course grand theft auto among many other forms)
Organized crime


But, most importantly, I experienced all of these things incredibly removed from the real life consequences. What does that do to young people of impressionable age? Well, it can't possibly lead to anything positive. So, at best, the game play does nothing. Yay, your child has made it out in one piece.


If I ever have children, they will never be allowed to play these types of games. They also won't be allowed to own or use firearms even though I myself grew up around firearms. Not because I am afraid I will raise a bunch of sociopaths. Life would be much easier if all of the violence was so obvious. No, I would not let them play out of fear that such violence will exist subliminally within them and that this violence would be expressed in ways nearly undetectable.

The aggregate of these little pieces of violence is what constitutes the true violent forces in society. That is what's referred to when we talk about rape or gun culture. It is not the fear that a few perpetuate violence in grand gestures that are easily thwarted. It is the fear that most violence is perpetuated covertly in ways that are almost impossible to control or prevent. The only way to prevent the pervasive culture of violence is to meet it at the source.

[seabeyond]

1. Again, we never allowed in this house. My boys get why and clearly understand the line.

I am thankful they were so easy on this. Football, basketball and strategy games work for them. And neither can play hours and hours upon hours. Well, oldest can a bet in his basketball game, I think. And mind craft I think.

Thanks for being honest about your experience. I don't get how people can say what thy watch, play and listen to does not effect who they are. I know just being on du has effected who I am

[cynatnite]

2. I agree to an extent...

We have a teenage boy who loves gaming. We put a lot of limitations on him because we do think extensive unsupervised playing of games of this stripe can be harmful.

Having said that, we export violent entertainment around the world. You won't see the same level of violence or apathy towards violence in other countries that you see here in the states.

There is something within our own culture that lends itself to be more violent and apathetic towards violence. I honestly don't know what it is.

Someone smarter than me can probably answer that.

[JaneyVee]

3. Otoh, living vicariously through it may prevent seeking out violent fantasy.

[Gravitycollapse]

5. Any expression of violence perpetuates violent tendencies.

It is not the case that one can safely perform violent acts. Simply by committing the violent acts, even if it is in a fraudulent world, wires the brain to accept violence as an acceptable means of conflict resolution.

[Humanist_Activist]

22. Evidence? Studies are inconclusive and contradictory on this point...

so your assertion is just that, your assertion, either show us evidence or shut up about it until you have such evidence. Unproven assertions have no place in this discussion.

ON EDIT: You also misrepresented what is in GTA in at least one aspect, I frankly question whether you played them for any extended period of time at all.

[Coyotl]

4. So did Darrell Issa

[SheilaT]

6. How old were you when you were playing it?

My younger son, now 26, played it. I wasn't too crazy about the game, but I had already put lots and lots of restrictions on him and knew that every so often I had to ease up.

When he showed me the game, I actually found it hilarious.

Example of my restrictions: My sons were not allowed to watch PG-13 movies until they were 13, and no R rated movies until they were 16 or 17. I was very vocal to all the other moms about this. As a consequence, when my kids were over at someone else's house and they wanted to show a movie, and it was a PG-13 when they were 11 or 12, or an R one at age 15, I always said yes. Always. Because one, I wasn't going to tell someone else what they could or could not show in their own home, and two, they got the forbidden fruit every so often. The odd movie I normally wouldn't allow was not going to hurt them. But a steady diet is something else.

It's crucially important to monitor what your kids see and do in the early years.

[Nine]

7. Nice, balanced post.

My husband, a very kind and gentle and not-violent man, is playing GTA 5 as I type. I've become accustomed to it as he has played earlier versions in the past, but I admit I was shocked the first time I watched him play. I worried (and still do somewhat) that it would affect his psyche in some subtle ways.

[ErikJ]

8. Alexis, Navy shooter played it 16 hours a day. It drove him mad

and obviously influenced him to do what he did.

[keroro gunsou]

9. obviously.

either you're missing the sarcasm tag or your degree in psychology that you got as a prize from a crackerjack box is missing...

sorry, but, people who use try to blame a person's bad behavior as a result of a video game really bother me.

i played GTA3, Vice City, and San Andreas upwards of 10 hours a day for several months (i'm a completist... shoot me) and you don't see me shooting up the real world.

people that play games and then go out and do something fucked up were probably fucked up to begin with.

[Logical]

10. You have no idea either way. Nt

[ErikJ]

12. Everything you do, experience or see has a long term mental effect.

Thats why I dont like watching scary or violent movies. Just as I dont feed my body any junk food. Perhaps he internalised it more than most. But one thing for sure, it could have added to his precarious mental state. I know Japanese play a lot of these games with no murderous effects but then they dont have the availability iof guns as the US does.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

16. Sheeze,...and here I am with the Hellraiser, Evil Dead and Phantasm series....

Boo.

[Humanist_Activist]

21. You may have a precarious mental state that requires being protected...

most normal people, however, don't. Also you make an assertion in your previous post without evidence.

[ErikJ]

23. I forgot to mention-he played video games 16 hrs a day on very large screen.

One of his friends told a reporter this. The Connecticut school shooter also spent most of his time playing violent video games. I dont ENJOY violent video games or movies and I see them as a total waste of time just like spectator sports. I seem to always have a shortage of time as it is.

[Humanist_Activist]

26. Question is, was his mental illness manifested in his obsessive playing of such games?

Or did the games cause him to be violent? As I said, the research is inconclusive and contradictory. I think of spectator sports as a waste of MY time, but certainly wouldn't judge others based on my aesthetic likes and dislikes.

[Quantess]

32. That was a bold claim, but,

Several studies have conclusively shown that children's behavior is most definitely affected by what they see, hear, and experience.

[Humanist_Activist]

33. "conclusively shown", and these were repeated studies, with a consensus reached?

Because I have yet to find them, you make these claims, back them up, what I've seen is contradictory and inconclusive.

ON EDIT: I don't doubt such studies exist, what I'm saying is that there are just as many studies that show the opposite, hence nothing "conclusive" can be asserted here outside of "we don't know".

[Quantess]

34. Yes, in studies involving CHILDREN.

I'm not a child psychologist, but I do have a masters degree in a field where I read an enormous amount of articles and textbooks about child development. I'm specifically talking about research involving young children.

However, for adults or even teenagers, it is much more difficult to draw any conclusions. Adults and teenagers have reached more advanced cognitive stages and have also learned more about the world in a broad sense.

I'm making my claims based on actual studies I have read. If you are just guessing "what I'm saying is that there are just as many studies that show the opposite" then I have no interest in discussing this with you. You're probably out of your league, here.

[Humanist_Activist]

35. Again, there are actual studies showing no negative effects, or showing that correlation doesn't...

equal causation.

We encounter chicken and egg problems, along with others, and please, shove the fake degree shit to the side please, I'm certainly not claiming to be an expert, and you shouldn't either, we are both nobodies on the internet, and I have a Masters in BS as well.

[Humanist_Activist]

37. You are the one who mentioned "conclusive studies" so either put up or shut up. n/t

[Quantess]

38. You demand proof that studies have conclusively shown that young children

are affected by what they see, hear, and experience in their environment?

Sigh... this is why I say you are ignorant on the topic. It's a sunny afternoon where I am, and I do not have time to convince willfully ignorant people right now. Maybe when the day winds down I will find one of several thousand sources to cite for you.

[Humanist_Activist]

39. OK, wait a minute, I think we are talking about two different things here...

first off, everything, from single celled organisms to humans, are affected by their environment in all those ways. I'm assuming you were restricting this to the subject of the thread, about the affects of video games, and had conclusive studies on the purported negative(aggressive) affects they have on children, teens, and young adults. That is what I'm arguing against, any claims on those types of studies being conclusive.

[Quantess]

42. Yes, there does seem to be some disagreement about what we're actually debating.

First, I am not specifically talking about violent video games.

Second, I'm not exactly arguing with anyone, here. I'm offering well founded, pretty universally agreed upon information, that children are sensitive to their surroundings. Birth to 3 years are especially formative. Childhood and pre-adolescence are also very formative periods.

The studies, for example, can be a group of 5 year olds first watching a violent puppet show, and then the children interact and play with each other after seeing violent puppet show, and the researchers observe the children's behavior. I have read several of these types of articles, and the results are always that the children reflect the behavior of what they have just seen.

Adults and adolescents can also be susceptible, and studies have shown this, too. But the studies get a lot trickier when there are longer time periods after the stimulus. Adults usually also have more self control and judgment. Adults also have a whole lifetime of experiences to draw from, not just one violent video game or puppet show.

I am saying that young children should not be allowed to play violent video games. Adults can probably handle it just fine.

[Humanist_Activist]

46. Well, I would agree, largely, in addition, most mature games are far too sophisticated...

and complicated to be understood by 3-5 year olds, simpler puzzle games and the like would be more their style.

Not to mention being able to memorize the controls, read instructions on-screen, and able to even hold the controllers could pose a problem. This isn't the NES with one control pad and 2 additional action buttons, after all.

[keroro gunsou]

40. um....

well, in japan, knives are the killer's tools of choice... so, the lack of available guns is not an issue if some loon wishes to commit violent crime.

[Nevernose]

11. I don't remember any rape scenes in any of the GTAs

And I've played them all, starting with the first one (which was kept in the back room and sold inside of a paper bag). Maybe I'm wrong.

Granted, all of that other stuff is there, too, but the inevitable result of committing any of those games in the GTA universe is death or jail. So how come people don't internalize the consequences?

I do agree with you about parenting: my kid is 17 now, and I still don't play GTA when she's in the room.

[Vashta Nerada]

14. That's because rape scenes in GTA don't exist.

[Electric Monk]

17. Is that some kind of freudian typo? re: "committing any of those games in..."

Blurring the line between games and crimes is kind of the overall problem being discussed, but it's interesting how you'd substitute one word for the other.

[Vashta Nerada]

13. You won't let your children play GTA?

Good. It's rated "M" for mature. It's not made for kids.

Parents are responsible for keeping violent video games away from their kids.

[hunter]

15. My girlfriend handcuffed a pimp to a urinal and beat the crap out of him.

I was standing outside the door claiming "rough sex."

It was a very bad day, a day that only got worse.

Nope, my wife and I didn't allow GTA in our house.

But I was straightforward and honest with my kids. My wife and I both told them why we don't like violence and stupidity. We'd seen too much in our sometimes clueless young adulthoods, and much more in our professions.

My mom was honest with me too. She was a kid during World War II living near the dockyards. Her parents were welders, building Liberty and Victory ships. Her daycare providers were hookers and party girls. Her mom was a part-time party girl too.

"Hey sailor, wanna dance!" Grandma would dance and allow some groping for a drink while grandpa was working double shifts plus.

Totally NOT romantic...

[laundry_queen]

18. I agree that it rewires kids' brains

My ex-husband had an office in our house. The kids used to go in there to hang out with daddy once in awhile. One day I walked in and he was playing GTA with our 2 year old sitting on his lap.

I'll admit, I totally lost my shit. I completely freaked out.

He thought I was being ridiculous. I don't think I was. He's now my ex. I have no idea what he does with the kids when he has them. It worries me.

[Riftaxe]

19. The first GTA

bored me to tears, never played another in that series. Apparently quite a few people enjoy it, but even as someone playing PC games since the 80's i never saw anything particularly special or interesting in it.

But if anyone wants to watch:

Murder
Rape
Assault
Sexual exploitation

Might I suggest the Lifetime channels, it is their bread and butter (and only slightly duller then QVC...)

[Humanist_Activist]

20. Where was the rape? Also, and this is important, Children SHOULDN'T play these games...

they are rated "M" for mature.

[Behind the Aegis]

24. I don't play, but does this qualify? (TRIGGER WARNING!)

[Humanist_Activist]

25. First off, whoever recorded that needs to know how to do sound editing...

and second, no, its him crouching against a pedestrian, that is literally the crouching button, to be used to take cover or lower your profile during fights.

Its called having a sick imagination and using what's available in-game. Notice that the actual animation has NO relation to anything we would call rape, penetration, or sex.

GTA games are ultimately sandbox games, you can do damn near anything in them that the programmers thought of, and some things they didn't. PC versions also have unofficial mods that expand capabilities, but, within the vanilla games, nothing related to rape can be found.

[Behind the Aegis]

28. Yeah, the sound sucks.

I didn't record it, nor have I played the game, but I noticed a "ding" sound occurs once the female employee falls to the ground. Just watching, it would appear to be "beating" the employee, but, as I have said a few times, I haven't played the game, so I don't if ripping off clothes can be done. Maybe it is the equivalent of an "Easter egg." I do find this comment interesting...

PC versions also have unofficial mods that expand capabilities, but, within the vanilla games, nothing related to rape can be found.

Perhaps it should have been written:

"Within the vanilla games, nothing related to rape can be found, but PC versions also have unofficial mods that expand capabilities."

It might allow for the OP to explain his comments.

[Humanist_Activist]

30. That dinging sound was an in game alert telling the player he can buy food there...

Notice that he's at what looks like a fast food counter, one of the ways to heal in the game is to eat food. He ignored what the game suggested and jumped the counter.

All mods would have to be sought after and downloaded or programmed/made yourself. Also, most mods still have to abide by any limitations of the game engine, unless you reprogram the game's code entirely, but that is just making a new game, and is far too much effort for most people.

As far as ripping off clothes, that's not possible in the vanilla games, while your main character can change clothes, no unclothing occurs in GTA IV, however in San Andreas, you can strip him to boxers, but that's about it, and even change the boxers to a variety of patterns, but nothing further. In fact, I would say that the GTA games are far tamer, sex wise, than many RPG's, for example the Dragon Age games, which allow the main character to have romantic relationships with various characters in game, both same sex and opposite sex. This even has a story angle(romance subplots). The "sex" in these games, is quite tame, even compared to PG-13 movies, nudity is mostly suggestive, with the characters hugging in their skivvies, I guess, is the best way to describe it, not exactly porn.

In GTA, its even tamer, and funnier(there are subplots for dating girlfriends), its a camera outside the house/apartment with suggestive noises and voices coming from said apartment/house. Of course, there is an exception, the notorious "Hot Coffee" mod in San Andreas, the first game to feature dating as a mission subtype. In the vanilla game, once a girlfriend likes you enough, she invites you in, cue what I said above. However, originally Rockstar was going to have a sex minigame where you are to try to pleasure your girlfriend, the scene in question was you and her in various sex positions, but still fully clothed. They cut this from the retail game at the last minute, to avoid an "AO" rating, but left the code on the game disc, some modders found it and reactivated it, leading to a recall and reissuing of the game by Rockstar with the code missing.

Again, the key is this, GTA games are ultimately user controlled, you could, quite possibly, spend days, weeks, or even months, playing, and not advance the plot one iota. Your character has a few basic things they can do, run, jump, attack, climb, etc. and with those, and a world with few limits, you can do practically anything you wanted, and the programmers try to anticipate everything possible.

[B Calm]

27. I grew up having real life BB gun wars. We wore several layers

of clothing.

[Niceguy1]

29. we used oranges

In the orange groves.....



Good times

[Drunken Irishman]

31. I grew up in a very liberal household...

My parents pretty much decided against policing what I watched and what games I played. I remember going to the dollar theater and watching Casino at the age of ten.

I think I turned out well. I was never rebellious ... for the most part. I enjoy horror movies, but on the whole, I'm decent.

But I'd wager most would look at my upbringing and suggest I lacked any type of discipline. My parents, tho, just realized there was a good chance I'd watch those movies or play those video games behind their back no matter how many times they told me I couldn't- so, best to do it in the open with the clear understanding that none of it was real.

[Bluenorthwest]

41. GTA is not for kids, just like some films are not for kids. Should all movies be made for kids?

Is it wrong that some films contain adult themes that are not appropriate for 13 year olds? All arts must be for the K-10 crowd? Shakespeare, it has got to go, being utterly jam packed with murder, rape, acts of violence and filthy jokes.
I tell you what amazes me about the sermons about video games. They never mention actual sermons or religion or 'Scriptures' that are filled with rape ordained by God, human trafficking ordained by God, mass murders some ordered and assisted by God..Fucks like Pope Francis say horrific things and people beg their kids to hear them. Folks here adore Rick Warren and Donnie McClurkin, Mrs Obama's favorite 'gospel artist' who declares bloody war on gay people and commands his followers to take off the gloves and attack us to the death. This man was employed by the Obamas as surrogate at an all ages event. But DU's bigot crew did not mind that a bit 'it's just church talk'.
Hypocrites.

[DonCoquixote]

43. 13 to 18

And there we have the problem, there are 4 years you should never have gotten a rated M for Mature game. These games are made for the 18 to 40 bracket, the same people that watched the Sopranos and breaking Bad.

But no, now you attack the games, even though whoever bought those games for that teenager could not or would not read a label. But of course, let's demonize the video games, not the fact that people refuse to think on what is real and what is NOT real.

[wercal]

44. I've never played it

But I watched somebody play the original version. It looked 'cheesy'....but the clips I've seen of the new one are disturbingly realistic.

[snagglepuss]

45. Thanks for sharing your thoughts about GTA after your own experience.

I was really horrified today hearing that the new GTA includes a graphic torture scene where there is a choice or gouging out eyes or cutting out a tongue and something else. I am stunned.