I have considered teaching, but...

[nadinbrzezinski]

Even applied to a few adjunct positions. But we realize it will be for satisfaction, and extra spending money. The pay is horrendous. When Cali raises the minimum, McDonald's will pay better, I wish I were kidding.

We as a society speak a good game on education, but words don't feed people, nor do they keep a roof over their head. This is not just this Catholic university. It is all over, state schools, like my Alma Mater, treat adjuncts like cheap, non-organized labor, emphasis on cheap. So does the Catholic university up the hill, the UC school, and the for profits. In fact, the for profits prefer adjuncts to tenure.

The Junior Colleges have a majority adjunct staff, again they prefer it. It's cheaper.

So the end result is that good people do it as a hobby only if they can afford it. Not that all adjuncts are bad, but sooner or later you are reduced to young idealistic kids or old retirees.

So when we are told, Americans need to get a college education, I say make it so where your average prof, likely an adjunct, will get medical, dental, and at least clear 30K a year.

Locally our college profs are on food stamps and medical, no choice.

Adjuncts make about half of the teaching staff nationwide. Colleges would prefer it if most undergrads were taught by adjuncts, and leave the "real profs" for upper division and graduate students, the latter are another source of cheap labor, and lab techs.

Good news, there is a union drive afoot. Increasingly corporatized colleges and universities will fight it. It is yet another opening front in the struggle of labor.

This is not just this horrific story

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3694356

[el_bryanto]

1. I agree

It's interesting - most people when you talk about raising pay for teachers, particularly professors, the response is something along the line of those people chose that life - they wanted to do that - so the work should be it's own reward. We don't need to pay them a living wage because they don't expect it and are paid in other ways.

But we wouldn't really say that about police officers or firemen. I don't think cops are overpaid per se, but they generally do have strong unions that don't take any crap.

Seems like college professors deserve the same thing.

Bryant

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. We need a union that will demand the pay of cops

And likely get half. A cop starts at $70.000 average.

Americans truly hate education. It's a cultural thing. It's ingrained, and tenured track also see the adjuncts as lesser than.

[enlightenment]

3. Can we please leave the

"good people" canard out of this discussion?

Geeze. Adjunct faculty make up more than half of ALL higher education faculty. Not all of them are "young idealistic kids or old retirees" and the vast majority are most certainly both "good people" and good educators.

And it is most certainly NOT a hobby for many, many people.

If you're going to try and make yourself the resident expert on the situation of adjunct faculty in US higher education, please do us the favor of leaving the value judgements at home. You might also want to spend some time reading up on the issue instead of trotting out the same tired refrains heard over and over again by people who briefly consider adding "college instructor" to their CV until they realize that it isn't worth the effort.

The Chronicle of Higher Ed has many good - and freely accessible articles on this topic. The New Majority can also provide you plenty of information. The Adjunct Project is an excellent source of raw data.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Whatever pal

After researching this locally and seeing where we are, and having a few adjuncts as neighbors, and reading the chronicle of higher education, I am sure I am onto something. Oh and people who are adjuncts are on Cal Fresh and Medical, if that is their only source of income.

That is a fact jack.

[dionysus]

4. what, praytell, would you be teaching?

[Rex]

8. Wind farms.

She seems to be a total expert on those.

[cali]

12. History, I suspect

gad. I have gotten into some epic battles over the OP posting blatantly false historical "facts".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2041190

[zappaman]

13. Whoa

That thread is AMAZING!
Thanks for posting.

[dionysus]

15. Popinjay 101 would be a better choice, i think.

[HappyMe]

17. Oh! Popinjay has to be

one of the best words ever! It fits so well here too!

[Brickbat]

18. Maybe journalism.

[SlimJimmy]

22. Yes, I was summarily put on the iggy list when I dared point out that there were

riots in NY over the 1860's draft. Apparently, her history books don't include that chapter.

[SidDithers]

19. Certainly not journalism...

Creative writing, maybe.

Sid

[FSogol]

20. Facebook Researching, Historical Fiction, and calidum aer

[bunnies]

21. Plonking 101.

To be taken in conjunction with:
Mastering condescension, Faux intellectual superiority, and Crafting creative GBCW posts for internet message boards.

[maddezmom]

23. Fencing?

[Brickbat]

24. Wildfire management.

[maddezmom]

34. Or even meteorology

[doggie breath]

26. Spelling...

would not be my first guess.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

27. this whole subthread is EPIC... n/t

[Hekate]

29. LOL This whole subthread probably consists of the jolly crew on her Iggy List

Those not currently on it will soon be.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

30. if the posts in this sub-thread were comprehensive

related to her iggy list it would crash DU from sheer volume.

sP

[Hekate]

32. Bwa-ha-ha

[pintobean]

33. She'll see it

She "creatively ignores" people.

That thread also shows that she could teach about the Korean War Of 2013.

[SidDithers]

35. The metric system?...nt

Sid

[obliviously]

37. wine tasting

by the bottle?

[DevonRex]

47. Kerfunkeling with riffles.

Need you ask?

[dionysus]

48. i have never seen wadsworth laugh so hard at a thread. care for a truffle?

[DevonRex]

49. Somebody's gonna get challenged to a duel. With

Yes, a truffle would go nicely with my tea. I just bought new large cotton tea bags so I can make a nice pot of tea with my favorite loose leaf. Delicious.

[dkf]

6. The outrage is the high tuition combined with pathetic wages.

I keep asking, where is the money going? These are not for profits after all.

Yes I realize the top guy is making outrageous amounts but that isn't enough to explain what is happening.

I am mystified

[JCMach1]

7. I was recently offered an adjunct 3 hr. course for $1100 for 11 weeks...

I turned it down when the math revealed that net I would earn about $3.63 an hr. less than I made as PT grocery store clerk at 15.

That's how bad it is out there for academics.

Even most of the FT/Tenure track position here in FL pay about 30% less than what I made teaching HS when I left the States in 2003.


Though I really need the extra money, I am determined to just re-focus even more on my small business... doing extra eBay should net me far more than what I would be getting from adjunct work.

[RebelOne]

9. My daughter is a teacher at a charter school in South Florida.

She just got her master's degree and is only earning $3,000 more per year. I think a master's would be worth much more than that.

[JCMach1]

11. What a lot of people don't know about are the ongoing education obligations teachers have to do

Master's or not, all teachers have to take the equivalent of college courses (some choose to do workshops instead).

So yeah, the don't pay her much more because THEY REQUIRE HER TO DO IT.

That sucks... really, really, sucks.

And yeah, my homestate (FL) is at the rear end of the suckage when it comes to teachers/teaching.

[RebelOne]

39. Yes, she has to attend workshops during the summer vacation. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. San Diego community pays anywhere from 1100 to 1500 for the same

It depends on the subject.

History and poli sci are on the low end.

A full time adjunct, KPBS had the story last year, pulls in an amazing 16K a year. And then I am told above good people stay. If you find something better, you move. It's easy to find entry work at 20K, with no benefits. Hell, as much as I despise them Wally World and target pay better to their entry level managers.

I know two of those good people. They teach full at a private for profit. Between the two they can afford to live where they do. One of them does not get the same hours, they are in real trouble. Each should be pulling in what they pull between the two of them.

This is one of those things none wants to talk about.

[gopiscrap]

14. In many ways I agree with you. MY wife has been teaching for 30 years

and in the beginning til about 7 or 8 years ago..she was respected and valued as a colleague at the educational table. Now she is treated as the enemy. She now tells young people not to go into education.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. I can't say I blame her

[MineralMan]

16. What happened with the adjunct positions you applied for?

I used to teach at a junior college for minimal pay, too. I did it to make my house payments as I was building my career as a freelance magazine writer. I taught non-fiction writing classes. I helped quite a few people improve their writing abilities so they'd be able to communicate in their chosen professions, none of which were writing professions. I got paid for my time, and it helped meet expenses in a difficult period.

As my income from writing grew, I stopped doing that teaching. Someone else started doing it. There were always people willing to teach a class or two as a supplemental income resource. The people changed, but the need for what was being taught didn't change. So it was, and is, I suppose.

I also took a few classes, despite having a Master's in English. I was trying to improve my oboe skills, so I took the junior college band class so I'd have a place to play as I got back into playing. I took a ceramics class, which led to another art class. It was interesting, and all of those classes were taught by part time adjuncts, who were probably making a few extra bucks, too.

The bottom line is that most of those classes couldn't be offered except for adjuncts willing to teach for small pay to make a little money. Those part-time adjuncts allowed the Junior College to offer a wider range of classes, take advantage of people in the community who could teach, and improve their catalog of offerings.

It was fun. I like to teach, and I helped some people learn skills that would improve their own opportunities. What's not to like? In the process I made some money during a time when that money helped me, too.

It sounds like you didn't get the adjunct jobs you applied for. That's too bad. You could keep trying, and maybe one of them will come through for you.

[dionysus]

54. my guess is grossly unqualified.

[Laelth]

28. Full time work, of any kind, should pay a living wage.

Adjunct work, usually, doesn't come close. I did it for a few years, off and on, and it was pretty enlightening.

-Laelth

[gollygee]

31. One of my daughter's teachers waits tables at night

If you're going to rack up student loan debt, do it for a job that will pay enough for you to live and pay back the student loans.

[Barack_America]

36. Bring back the trade schools.

I value education highly, but when it comes to my son, I'll only encourage him to go to college if his profession of choice demands it. Though I have a professional ivy-league education (by chance, not design), I would not be ashamed at all if he chose trade school over college. College is too damned expensive to only get "finding yourself" and a low-paying job in return. We have to be practical these days, can any of us really afford pride anymore?

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. The race for the bottom also means a decline

For pipe fitters and carpenters. By the way, I love and respect the trades. But the plan is to suppress completely all wages.

We should all be on the streets demanding the race ends. Short term though, you are correct. It makes sense to become a pipe fitter.

[Quantess]

38. Yes, I knew an elementary schoolteacher who waited tables at night

they had a mortgage to pay, student loans to pay...

[a la izquierda]

42. Wow, that's ridiculous.

I have a PhD in history, and a good job. But, it's as a university professor, which does not pay much. So, I should just whore myself out to a job that will pay the debt, and my happiness be damned?

Gotcha.

[gollygee]

43. No

You should get paid enough to not need a second job.

[a la izquierda]

44. Oh, oh, I'm sorry.

I totally went the wrong direction!

[gollygee]

45. I didn't word it well

I'm the daughter of public school teachers and the granddaughter of a university professor. The jobs should pay enough for people to live decently. All jobs should pay well enough for people to be able to pay for the necessities of life, and if people have to spend as much for schooling as educators have to pay, they should make enough to live decently and pay for that education.

[a la izquierda]

46. Right on...

and let's just say I've been grading papers all day, so my brains are a bit cooked.

[Egalitarian Thug]

40. Please, in all seriousness, don't. n/t

[dionysus]

50. you win the thread. nt

[pintobean]

53. But, the students are curios.

[tkmorris]

56. OMG that made me chortle

I am so going to hell...

[pintobean]

57. ...

[madinmaryland]

51. I assume you will be looking to teach a course in Journalism. I hope it goes well, since you have

quite a bit of experience in that field.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Now I could do that

My MA is in history with a minor in poli sci. The economy was really bad when I originally applied, so I could teach journalism, photojournalism, history or poli sci. I might apply again, now that the economy has improved.

And in reality we see kids come into the field, who also need some tactical training.

[madinmaryland]

55. Then what are you going to teach??? You need a masters at a minimum to teach anything at a college

level.

Growing up with a parent in higher education (40 years), it is not an easy field to break into, if you do not have experience.

Best of luck.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. I might reapply

It is with the knowledge that it is spending money.