Trayvon Martin bombshell

[n2doc]

The medical examiner is now saying the reason why Trayvon could not have been on top of Zimmerman is that Trayvon was shot in the back.

According to the former assistant coroner, the results of Martin’s autopsy clearly showed that, despite Zimmerman’s statements regarding their altercation, there was no feasible way for Martin to have been on top of Zimmerman when the gun was fired, because the bullet entered Martin’s back.
Bao claims that the prosecution never actually asked him the questions that were crucial to the success in the case, and that he changed his opinion from the time he initially examined Martin and the time he was on the stand. Bao and his attorney say they believe he was fired for questioning the way the case was handled, and possibly for not going long with the desired narrative.

Bao testified in court that the amount of marijuana that was found in Martin’s system at the time of his death would have had little to no effect on his ability to reason—even though initially he had stated that the drug could have possible impaired his mental state.

Can the Feds step in yet?

Or will this be another Emmet Till case?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/14/1238828/-Trayvon-Martin-bombshell

[LittleBlue]

1. How could this possibly not come out at trial?

Surely entry/exit wounds can be determined even by amateurs.

[MH1]

25. Did the prosecution ask that question?

Obviously the defense wouldn't have asked.

If Bao is now saying something different than what he said at trial, wouldn't he be admitting to perjury? So it doesn't seem likely that it ever came up at trial, and if it didn't come up, it's because the prosecution didn't ask. Why wouldn't the prosecution ask that basic question? Hmmm...

[pintobean]

33. Yes, it was asked.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023645749#post142

[MH1]

49. Thank you. Ok I see below where you found this OP to be bull.

As you posted below, the original article doesn't say that Bao is now claiming TM was shot in the back.

If Bao WAS claiming that, in light of the recording of his testimony, it would make ZERO sense.

It still seems he is admitting to not being 100% truthful at trial due to being pressured to "not say things". Although "I have no fact; I have zero opinion" is pretty hard to pin down as perjury.

[Heather MC]

104. Not Perjury if he was never asked the Question

We all know Trayvon was killed in cold blood. No matter what the out come of the trial was. We also know the Florida Justice system is a fucking joke.

Sadly this trial became less about the Dead Victim and more about protecting Gun owners rights.

But be patient George Zimmerman is on a faster Clock than the rest of us his Justice is coming. And no I am not making threats about GZ I am merely saying what goes around comes around.

[MoonRiver]

156. I don't know about karma.

I do know the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Zimmy is proving that axiom to be totally correct.

[ISW]

112. The trial was in Florida where non whites have no rights.

[GreenStormCloud]

162. Even easier in this case. There was no exit wound. The bullet stopped inside Martin. N/T

[Rex]

2. Entered his back?

Why was this not brought up? That would be the grossest miscarriage of justice, that I've heard of in recent times. Especially since one of the homicide detective wanted to charge Zimmerman with murder.

Shot in the back. Why am I not surprised?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

4. Something doesn't smell right. Pretty basic forensics

To not mention while you are on the stand as expert witness.

[Daniel537]

8. Indeed

And the whole suing for $100M, kind of makes me skeptical of this guy. We'll see where this goes.

[n2doc]

9. A witness is only supposed to answer the questions they are asked

Nothing else. If they start to expound on other things, the Judge will stop them and direct the Jury to ignore what they said. This guy is saying the Prosecution didn't ask him that question, which to me (if true) is misconduct on their part. Certainly the defense lawyers weren't going to ask.

[aikoaiko]

44. He was asked the correct question and he answered it. See post #42

[LisaL]

71. You do realize that in written autpsy report, the wound was to the chest, front to back,

with no exit wound. So it would be impossible to be shot in the back. Or you don't realize that?

[Cha]

146. I also read that the Prosecution is being accused of intentionally losing

this case.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/11/trayvon-martin-medical-examiner-claims-prosecutors-intentionally-lost-case/

[pnwmom]

21. And he signed the autopsy report saying the bullet entered the chest. n/t

[wild bird]

35. Exactly.

If he signed the autopsy report with the findings that the bullet entered the front and he's now saying that Trayvon was shot in the back, this guy is admitting to forging an official govt. document, lying, malfeasance, and who knows what else.

Also, there was no wound in the back so, are we to believe that Trayvon was running away, GZ shot at him, the bullet went past Trayvon, then did a 180 degree turn and struck Trayvon in the chest?

If this Dr. Bao had any reputation left after the trial, he doesn't now.

That's why I'm calling bullshit on his statement.

[DearAbby]

119. Do you remember how strange his testimony

He would not vouch for the procedures of the facility...he went out of his way. Also remember him saying he had changed his report, I don't know what the changes were, because that question was never asked. The Trial went on as if nothing had changed.

[wild bird]

124. Yeah, this guy was all over the place on the stand.

But his statement that Trayvon was shot in the back is pure bunk, the diagram, the hoodie the shirt, expert testimony all points to Trayvon being shot in the chest, with no exit wound in the back.

If it's true that this Dr. is saying this, I don't know what his game is.

[DearAbby]

135. I am sure his evidence will come out in this trial

and we can all evaluate it then. Just he seemed to really go out of his way to disassociate himself with the facility. There is more to this than just the autopsy.

[jwirr]

29. I read yesterday somewhere that the bosses all the way up to the state wanted it suppressed.

Said their attitude was Trayvon "deserved what he got". It is hard to believe that today we could see this kind of unjustice happening - the kind that was routine in the 50-60s.

[Jackpine Radical]

88. Two things--

First, the witness cannot answer questions that are not asked; that is, he is prevented from offering information ad hoc.
But--most importantly--in this case he was explicitly asked if he disputed that Martin was shot in the front, and he said that he did not.

Listen to the video above, past the 42 minute point. It's clear. I have no idea what this new stuff is about.

[hack89]

14. What did the written autopsy report say? nt

[Rex]

15. Well

"According to the former assistant coroner, the results of Martin’s autopsy clearly showed that, despite Zimmerman’s statements regarding their altercation, there was no feasible way for Martin to have been on top of Zimmerman when the gun was fired, because the bullet entered Martin’s back."

You tell me.

[hack89]

16. I found the written report. Bao said Martin was shot in the chest

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2013/07/05/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf

[Rex]

20. Then someone is lying their pants off.

Can't be both.

[hack89]

24. Bao sketched the chest wound in the report.

the drawing does not show a back wound.

[Rex]

34. Well it is a huge stretch to believe that this would have been ignored all this time.

Had the gunshot been in the back. Still, I can see Zimmerman shooting someone in the back.

[pintobean]

109. Here's a screen grab of the autopsy report drawing.

[LisaL]

50. Gunshot wound to the chest.

Directly front to back.

[gopiscrap]

3. this is what happens when you let fucking gun nuts with a shit load of money

bastardize our legal process!

[gopiscrap]

5. Bet you the MSM won't touch this

[malaise]

19. They will - Rev Al will be on this

if we don't hear about this on Karen this afternoon

[gopiscrap]

38. I hope so, but that is cable

I want it on the big three (NBC, CBS, ABC) having it on MSNBC is like preaching to the choir.

[wild bird]

76. Preach what?

The autopsy report, the one Bao signed, clearly states that the bullet entered the chest and did not exit, in other words, Trayvon was not shot in the back.

[G_j]

6. After that lengthy trial, it was never revealed he was shot in the back??

it just can't get more absurd..

[hack89]

22. Considering the official autopsy report written by Bao said Martin was shot in the chest

you have question this latest revelation.

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2013/07/05/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf

[pscot]

7. This claim should be easy to verify.

[maddezmom]

10. So is Bao claiming a coverup?

http://t.newsone.com/newsone/#!/entry/report-medical-examiner-shiping-bao-claims-george-zimmerman-shot-trayvon,5233b57eda27f5d9d01fabde/2/media/2

Because he is contradicting his own report?

[arcane1]

11. I'm curious about the phrase "he changed his opinion"

[maddezmom]

13. Yeah, seems like a big stretch from gunshot to the chest with no exit wound

To being sot in the back.

[Octafish]

12. Gosh. I guess the prosecutors did want to mess up the case.

Didn't a bunch of DUers get lambasted for bringing that up?

[gopiscrap]

39. yup I was one of the ones who kept

on insisting that the prosecution was sandbagging!

[pnwmom]

17. Then why did Bao sign the autopsy report saying the bullet entered the chest?

And why did he confirm that in court? This makes no sense.

http://newsone.com/2718172/report-medical-examiner-shiping-bao-claims-george-zimmerman-shot-trayvon-martin-in-the-back/

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

143. Because someone got to him. Hmmm.....

[hack89]

18. The official autopsy report that Bao wrote says Martin was shot in the chest.

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2013/07/05/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf

[LisaL]

55. And it says projectile was directly front to back.

Signed by the very same Dr. Bao.
So if he is claiming otherwise now I have to as as to WTF he is talking about, considering his written autopsy report clearly says shot to the chest, front to back.

[arcane1]

57. He's not claiming otherwise

See posts 41 and 51.

This is made-up bullshit.

[LisaL]

59. Oh yea.

Internet conspiracies at their best. There is not enough tin foil to go around.

[pintobean]

23. That's total bullshit

It goes against all the testimony and photo evidence. Including his own testimony. There was only the entry wound in the chest. There was no exit wound. It's pretty fucking basic.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. I think Zimmy was guilty but this is pretty basic stuff.

Numerous people have seen the body...

[pintobean]

41. Tracing the source in the OP

back a couple steps leads to an Alternet story that doesn't mention the shot in the back bs. It's basically the same story that was posted on DU a few days ago.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/trayvon-martins-medical-examiner-prosecution-threw-case

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023645749

[arcane1]

54. Ah, you beat me by 10 minutes!

Post 51

[Rex]

61. "$100 million dollar lawsuit against the state of Florida."

Nah, has nothing to do with it.

[maddezmom]

101. Thanks for the link

[Grey]

27. something I have never understood.....?

The oath you swear to in court says - in part, The truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth. Why then can you not tell the whole truth? Why must you only answer the questions asked?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

36. You are limited to the questions asked, but I think you can appeal to the judge.

Attorneys have ways of cutting off witnesses that are saying too much, but the other side should be alert and draw out the testimony on cross or re-cross. If I were a witness and felt I was being shut down, I would turn to the judge and say something like "May it please the court, I would like to expand my answer."

[99th_Monkey]

28. So that entire trial was a complete SHAM <-- Calling Eric Holder ~nt

[wild bird]

90. The only sham here is Dr. Bao.

Here's the autopsy report, the same one that Dr. Bao signed stating that the bullet entered Trayvon's chest front to back with no exit wound.

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2013/07/05/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf

If there's no wound in the back, how did GZ shoot Trayvon in the back?

[99th_Monkey]

105. "the bullet entered Martin’s back"

Is Bao's most recent statement on the matter.

Didn't you get how the subtext in the article is how Bao was
being pressured all along to follow the prosecution's "narrative"?

This to me explains why his story seems to have changed and
morphed from the incident, up to the trial, and now post-trial.

Actually, the fact that the story DID change, back and forth,
over time like is has <-- this suggests that there WAS pressure,
otherwise why would his story change, putting his career at
risk and all ... unless he's just a complete moron weirdo
attention whore or some such. <--is this what you are suggesting?

[wild bird]

111. That's exactly what I'm suggesting. nt.

[99th_Monkey]

114. Seems like way more of a "stretch"

than to simply believe your lying eyes.

HINT: The prosecutors threw the case. <-- you don't think this is true?

[wild bird]

118. My opinion?

I think they were so outclassed and inept that they unintentionally threw the case.
But then, maybe they did purposely throw it, only they know, but this so called revelation that Trayvon was shot in the back, despite all the evidence pointing to the bullet entering the chest, both physical and expert testimony, is bullshit.

[99th_Monkey]

123. You've made yourself clear

I think this is where we agree to disagree, and move on.

toodles :hi"

[wild bird]

125. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Are you saying that Dr. Bao is telling the truth when he says that Trayvon was shot in the back, despite all the opposing evidence, both physical and expert testimony?

I'm so confused.

[99th_Monkey]

126. We both know physical evidence can be tampered with

and/or doctored, including photos. Given this indisputable fact, yes,
I believe Dr. Bao was pressured, went along for awhile not knowing
what else to do, but his heart wasn't in it, so he waffled, made his
employer nervous enough to fire him (unwisely in my view), for
threatening to go off-script.

I hope this helps diminish your confusion at least a little.

[wild bird]

128. Yes it does clear it up.

In this case, Dr. Bao is the only one making the claim that Trayvon was shot in the back without any evidence, and now it seems that even that so called statement by him is being walked back.

Here's the post by Arcane1

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023667173#post51

[99th_Monkey]

130. As usual, the Devil is in the details

Thanks for the additional info ... it does give pause.

[wild bird]

137. No problem. nt.

[GreenStormCloud]

163. Both the hoodie and the T-short have the bullet hole in front.

They were both shown in court. No bullet hole in the back of either of them.

[99th_Monkey]

164. Lots of things were "shown in court", as in "show"

I think "show" is the pivotal word. <-- which was my point.

I think the whole trial is a very bad joke on America, and a travesty
to the our fundamental notions of color-blind justice and due process.

I don't trust any of it.. Seriously in need of a "redo" ... as in Retrial by
DoJ.

[WinkyDink]

30. OFGS. Did this Bao character not have Free Will when he was initially interviewed? GMA*B here, man.

[wild bird]

31. I'm going to have to call bullshit on this.

The prosecutors had these pictures and never posed the question to him? And why did he wait until he was fired to bring this up.
Sorry, but this stinks like week old fish left in the sun.

[Jeroen]

32. WFT? of the day n/t

[nolabear]

37. Oh Lord; they're gonna dig that poor child up.

Insane cluster fuck of an excuse for a legal system.

[WinkyDink]

40. Nope. Can't re-try Z.

[nolabear]

43. Yes, but wouldn't you want to know?

I don't know; maybe it wouldn't be possible to tell. But it seems it would be important to find out if there's any basis for the claim. I can barely form the thought it's so painful but if it was my son, I'd want to know.

[LisaL]

69. Know what?

Seriously, you are that gullible? Did you watch any of the trial? They even had experts on discussing how far from the chest clothing was to obtain the gun powder pattern.
The wound was to the front. Defense and prosecution both agreed to that.

[X_Digger]

84. Apparently some folks *are* that gullible.

They even showed the sweatshirts.





eta: added pics

[nolabear]

106. Please don't call me gullible. It squashes any discussion.

I may be wrong. I may have posted in haste and expressed an anxiety. But I'm not a fool and you'd get much further with me if you had addressed me rather than high-fiving the previous post, and simply made your point.

[Monster_Mash]

148. Anyone remember the band Kriss Kross?

[X_Digger]

159. I won't post the photo, but you can google it..

One of the first responder's cell phone pic of Martin's body was leaked.

Martin was not wearing the shirts backwards.

[nolabear]

107. As a matter of fact I was away for much of the trial. So thanks for insulting rather than informing

You've been so helpful.

[LisaL]

68. Are you people really that clueless?

The autopsy was done. Direction of wound was front to back.
Nobody is going to dig anybody up. This is all made up nonsense.

[nolabear]

110. You're very good at dissing. Why do that rather than simply inform?

I have no issue with being wrong, but Jesus, who'd want to talk to anyone who throws around such contempt? It just throws us into trading irritation rather than educating, being educated, or enjoying the give-and-take.

[aikoaiko]

42. Prosecutor: "What was cause of death?" Bao: "Gunshot wound to chest"

how the hell can he say he wasn't asked the right question?

see 6:46 minute mark.

[99Forever]

45. You do realise...

... that "the chest" has both a front and a back, don't you?

Or perhaps you don't.

[LisaL]

48. His autopsy says the direction was from front to back.

So get a clue already.

[99Forever]

52. The response was about ...

... "the right question being asked."

Get your own fucking clue.

[LisaL]

56. Seriously? Show me where someone was shot in the back, yet autopsy says person was shot in the

chest.

[LisaL]

60. Learn your anatomy, please.

[pintobean]

62. The right questions were asked.

Read through the thread, there's even moving pictures with audio.

[Skittles]

145. Zimmerman is a murdering bastard regardless of direction

[Kennah]

64. Read the report signed by Bao

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2013/07/05/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf

Entrance: Left chest, intermediate range
Direction of projectile: Directly, front to back
Exit: None

[aikoaiko]

65. Keep watching the video. He was using plain English

He later described the entrance gun shot wound with gun powder marks beginning around the 8 min mark.

[WinkyDink]

113. Bwahaha! No! The back is called...wait for it...the back! (The word wasn't "torso.")

[XemaSab]

46. THERE WAS NO EXIT WOUND

Trayvon had ONE bullet wound that was to the chest.

It doesn't take a medical examiner or a forensics expert to figure out the direction the bullet came from.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf?hpt=hp_t2

[LisaL]

47. Exactly.

This guy was fired (I have no clue if wrongly or rightly) and I don't know WTF he is talking about now.
The wound was to the front. The hole in the clothes was in the front.

[Voice for Peace]

80. as much as I'd like an actual bombshell to prove Trayvon's innocence once and for all,

I'm afraid Dr. Bao is a little kookoo.

He seemed a bit cracked on the stand.
This lawsuit even more so.
Probably the reason for his firing.

[Estevan]

91. "Prove Trayvon's innocence"??? wtf?

[Voice for Peace]

120. I know, agree. But there it is on the books.

If Z was acquitted for self-defense, it means Trayvon was guilty of being the aggressor.

It's bullshit but it's there.

[Tigress DEM]

149. Innocent of "fighting back" against a man with a gun following him for no reason.

Zimmerman's "defense" was that he only fired in "self defense" because once he got in close Trayvon started fighting back and Zimmerman has wounds that seemed consistent with an altercation.

The defense with the second judge somehow suppressed part of the law that is still present with the "stand your ground" law. The part RIGHT before it pretty much states that if you are pursuing someone then you aren't "standing your ground". Made the jury deliberate a false situation under the law because really the law didn't apply because Zimmerman was the aggressor.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

92. Yes, he was a horrible witness

on the stand...nearly incomprehensible. He did not seem confident, and there was also an unfortunate language barrier.

[arcane1]

51. Something dishonest is going on here, not with the case, but with the reporting.

The Dailykos link in the OP links to a Freakoutnation story, which claims that Alternet's story has the shot-in-the-back statement. However, if you click on the Alternet story, it says no such thing.

Freakoutnation's story, quoting Alternet:
According to the former assistant coroner, the results of Martin’s autopsy clearly showed that, despite Zimmerman’s statements regarding their altercation, there was no feasible way for Martin to have been on top of Zimmerman when the gun was fired, because the bullet entered Martin’s back.


The same quoted paragraph, from the original Alternet story (linked to by Freakoutnation):
According to the former assistant coroner, the results of Martin's autopsy clearly showed that, despite Zimmerman's statements regarding their altercation, there was no feasible way for Martin to have been on top of Zimmerman when the gun was fired.

Here's the Freakoutnation story linked to from Dailykos:

http://freakoutnation.com/2013/09/13/medical-examiner-trayvon-martin-was-shot-in-the-back/

Here is the alternet story, linked to by Freakoutnation:

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/trayvon-martins-medical-examiner-prosecution-threw-case


Two possibilities here:
Alternet scrubbed the statement about Martin being shot in the back

or

Freakoutnation pulled that statement right out of their ass.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

67. Why would a place like "freakoutnation" risk it's reputation just for a few clicks of web traffic?

[arcane1]

74. It looks like it WAS in the original Alternet story, but was taken out.

From the very bottom of the Alternet story:

Editor's Note: An earlier version of this story said that Dr. Bao claimed Martin had been shot from the back. That cannot be verified at this time. Reports indicate that he did however say that examiniation of the wound revealed that Martin could not have been on top of Zimmerman at the shooting, and the physical evidence indicated that Martin could not have been the aggressor.

[pintobean]

81. When this story was posted on DU

on Wednesday, I went looking for other sources. I searched Google and Bing. There were plenty of stories about the lawsuit, but everything that mentioned BAO changing his story lead back to the WFTV story as its source. Bao's lawyer told that to that tv station, but they're the only ones he told it to. That story did not mention the shot in the back claim.

Either someone made it up, or it was said and WFTV didn't mention it in their report. I'm going with someone made it up, because it's too ridiculous - even for a lawyer. Of coarse, Bao could have said that to someone, but his credibility was destroyed at trial.

[arcane1]

89. It's interesting that the "no way Trayvon Martin could have been on top" part is still around

But that of course doesn't automatically mean he was shot in the back. He could be implying that Martin was standing, or on his back, etc. Or he could be full of shit

[Spitfire of ATJ]

96. Or on his knees at gunpoint.

[cui bono]

86. Thanks for taking the time to get that info. n/t

[Spitfire of ATJ]

94. I'm too subtle,...it's the only answer.

[Bunnahabhain]

53. Zimmerman should never be allowed within 10 feet of a gun

but anyone taking these recent statements of Bao seriously needs to follow the old saying that goes something along the lines of, "People wondered if he was stupid...until he said something and then it was confirmed." Really folks do not make yourself look stupid here and give this any credence.

[Shemp Howard]

63. Just check Trayvon Martin's clothing.

This is so simple. Someone should check Martin's clothing. Without any hard evidence of a shot in the back, bringing up Emmett Till is irresponsible. Just as those who immediately said that Zimmerman must have been acting in self-defense were (and are) irresponsible.

I guess what I'm saying is this. Report the story. But have some hard evidence before getting folks all riled up.

[LisaL]

66. Don't you freaking think that it all was done already, considering the trial is over.

For crying out loud.

[Shemp Howard]

70. Sure!

I'm quite certain that Martin's clothing was carefully examined by everyone involved.

My post #63 was my perhaps too-indirect way of saying that the original post is BS.

[pintobean]

75. Just being a stooge, Shemp?

Welcome to DU.

[Shemp Howard]

79. LOL, and thanks for the welcome.

Nice to see that there are still some people who recognize the name. Shemp was one of my favorite comedians of all time, but he was usually overshadowed by his costars. So picking that name was my little way of honoring him.

In fact, I was going to name my first son Shemp, but my wife vetoed it (just kidding).

[yuiyoshida]

141. Welcome to DU!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

174. Hi!

[world wide wally]

72. Zimmerman upgraded from dirty little coward to absolute fucking coward

[shenmue]

73. I think this is one of those cases...

where everyone can guess what really happened, but the courts messed it up, and it will be tough to get them to do anything else unless there's a civil suit. I certainly hope his family sues for wrongful death. The rules about the burden of proof will be different, which makes it harder to sling as much confusion and b.s. (God willing).

[aikoaiko]

77. As one would imagine from alternet they are retracting "in the back"

Editor's Note: An earlier version of this story said that Dr. Bao claimed Martin had been shot from the back. That cannot be verified at this time. Reports indicate that he did however say that examiniation of the wound revealed that Martin could not have been on top of Zimmerman at the shooting, and the physical evidence indicated that Martin could not have been the aggressor.

[Voice for Peace]

82. much better

[Botany]

78. The fix was in from the get go

Now I know why the state's attorney was smiling @ the post trial presser.

[pintobean]

83. Maybe you should browse through the thread.

The story is false.

[Yo_Mama]

85. This is BS - there was a written autopsy report

If Bao were really saying this now, he would be admitting to felonies.

There's something wrong here, and it's got to be with Bao or people misrepresenting what he is saying. Here, for an example, is a Daily Kos article about what the autopsy report reveals:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/28/1219387/-The-Trayvon-Martin-Autopsy-Report-and-the-U-S-Supreme-Court#

The second fact is that the autopsy report reveals that the bullet traveled in a direct line from the front to the back of Trayvon's 158 pound body.

Then there would be poweder evidence, etc. It is just not possible that what the OP discusses is true.

[Baitball Blogger]

87. My eyes popped out of my head.

Justice for Trayvon!

If that is so, there should be no question in anyone's mind that a special federal agency should be established to find out what else goes on in this county that gets swept under the rug.

[wild bird]

97. The story's bullshit.

Here's the autopsy report signed by Dr. Bao.

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2013/07/05/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf

Read through the thread, the story's been proven false.

[Baitball Blogger]

115. Thanks wild bird.

I read over the posts after I posted. I'm glad you all are on it. It isn't uncommon for assholes to create misinformation to keep the level of uncertainty high.

[wild bird]

121. No problem.

I hope I didn't come across as an asshole with my last sentence, if so, apologies.

[Baitball Blogger]

122. No, not at all!

You were great.

[pintobean]

99. Did you watch any of the trial?

There's no doubt that he was shot in the chest.

[Baitball Blogger]

117. I've been following your posts, pintobean.

Living in this county I have been a victim of government fraud and conspiracy, so nothing would surprise me.

However, I have been reading your posts and it helps to remain grounded. I think you all have successfully debunked this story. I wonder if dailykos is going to allow the article to remain on its website?

[pintobean]

127. I'm a little irritated about this.

If I came across as a jerk, it wasn't intentional. Well, one of my posts was intentionally condescending, but the person that was directed at is kicked out of this thread, now. Anyway, this is the second thread on this story and both of them have gotten a lot of recs. In both threads, the whole premise of the changed story has been shown to be false. Yet, neither OP has made any changes to their OP. I feel that it's misinforming this community.

There's nothing wrong with posting a news story that turns out to be false, but when it's shown to be false, that should be noted. I've thought about starting a thread to correct the record, but I feel that would be calling out the two OPs - both of them members that I respect. Besides, my threads drop like rocks.

[Baitball Blogger]

129. Let it be comforting to know that some of us are listening.

These things are important to get right.

[pintobean]

131. Thanks

[Hoyt]

93. Zimmerman is a murderer that got lucky, but Bao is full of it. His testimony was awful, and

I think the case turned when he started babbling. The whole prosecution team should be terminated and tarred-and-feathered for letting Martin and his parents down.

[wild bird]

98. +1000.

You called it perfectly right.
The funniest part of this whole thread is that some here actually believe this, to use your word, crud.

[PoliticAverse]

95. Please learn the basics about the case so you don't fall for BS like this. I really miss the unrec.

All the physical evidence and testimony indicates Martin was shot in the chest.

[Stupefacto]

100. If this is a "bombshell," why isn't it in the NYT, Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, etc.?

If the Daily Kos message board the closest you can get to a mainstream publication to consider this allegation a "bombshell," I don't see this going anywhere.

[dkf]

102. It's scary how many think this is plausible.

[LisaL]

133. Apparently somebody can claim anything, no matter how absurd, and some people will believe it.

[Motown_Johnny]

103. Zimmerman is a murderer, but this can't be real.

It wasn't just the medical examiner's testimony that confirmed the gunshot wound to the chest. There were the tests on Trayvon"s clothing that concluded the muzzle of the gun was near to, but not in contact with, the hoodie.


I'm not buying this.

[wild bird]

108. Bombshell?

Maybe you should change the title to

Trayvon Martin dud.

[Ecumenist]

134. REALLY? I don't see how this is funny in the least. Your idea of mirth is sick and

twisted to say the least. to minimise the gravitas of the OP is one thing but to post "Trayvon Martin Dud' and to top it off with a <<<<LAUGHING SMILEY>>>> (WTF??!) is about 500 miles beyond the pale. This is a kid, pushing up daisies FOR NO FUCKING REASON and YOU seem to find it funny....NICE. Stay Classy..

[pintobean]

138. Maybe he's bothered

by the fact that the story has been shown to be false, and the OP has not corrected the record. I know I am. Maybe it's better to just laugh about it. I don't think the laughter is directed at Trayvon. More likely Dr. Bao. I have found him to be very amusing.

[wild bird]

139. That went right over your head.

The story turned out to be a dud, nothing more, nothing less.

Everyone else knew what I meant, funny you would interpret it this way.

Sorry you took it the wrong way, but I'm not going to change it just because you got miffed over it.

[Ecumenist]

140. Yeah, I wonder how you would feel if it were your relative or child on the business

end of a headstone.... I will say it again, CLASSY...

[Monster_Mash]

150. Take a deep breath....

I think you would be hard pressed to find someone in this thread who thinks that the death of Martin is funny.

There is humor to be found in the stampede over an obviously bullshit story.

[The Wizard]

116. Exhume the body (NT)

[Dragonfli]

132. It is already another Emmet Till case, double Jeopardy protects him now, unless the feds move on

differing charges pertaining to civil liberty violations or possibly hate crime violations (I am unclear as to exact details lacking an education in Federal law).

There was an unfair trial of non-peers that based a decision on a racial belief in an "inherent violent nature" they shockingly appeared to attribute to all black teenage children. Also, the police and other principalities appear to have collaborated to falsify the evidence in order to facilitate such an outcome.

The damage to justice was already done.

There will continue to be more such "Emmet Till cases" until the criminal enabling of racism at the local police and prosecutor levels is ended with a truly blind justice system across all such jurisdictions, that battle is not going very well.

Bringing the relevant conspirators to justice may modify the actions of other jurisdictions, but judging by the statistics and the success rate of such unjust practices, such an outcome from this travesty seems unlikely.

[JustAnotherGen]

152. +1

I don't believe that there will ever be courtroom justice served to Zimmerman though. . I do believe that everything comes full circle though - everything. He has declared loud and clear to the universe what he is. When you are that - it comes back tenfold and in some of the oddest ways.

[YarnAddict]

160. Just curious

In what way was the trial unfair, and who were the jurors "non-peers" of?

[Dragonfli]

165. It was a jury of all non black racists that assumed a child was violent simply because he was black

So incredibly violent in their little minds, that a fully developed adult outweighing him by 50 lbs. had no way to avoid being killed be the "dangerous black child" that was UNARMED without killing the child in cold blood with a firearm.

Just curious, do you always miss the obvious?


A jury of people that would view me as not their peer and even somehow inherently murderously violent (and apparently possessing super human strength) simply because of the melamine content of my skin are not peers, are also rather stupid, and possibly even my enemies in their minds.

All white juries have been doing this for a very long time and appear to always get away with it, hence the reference in the OP, read up on the reference and perhaps you will be able to see what is right before your eyes.

[YarnAddict]

166. I thought the trial was fair

The judge seemed to be trying to be scrupulously fair to the prosecution. If I recall, she virtually begged Z-man to testify, and wouldn't let his attorneys answer for him. If he had testified, (which he appeared to want very badly to do,) the outcome would certainly have been different.

And a jury of one's peers is the right of the defendant in a case, not to the victim. Our judicial system is set up in such a way that the defendant is given "an edge." Things like "innocent until proven guilty," the prohibition against double jeopardy--Those are good things that you would be very thankful for if you were ever on trial.

OJ Simpson was found not guilty by a jury of his peers. Do you think that because the victims were white, he should have been tried by an all white jury?

[Dragonfli]

167. It is your opinion, but many know the reality of outcomes when black people are being vilified

and there is also an all white jury, notorious and obvious even. There have been movies and books chronicling the practice, you must be somewhat aware at least on some level.

In this case they decided to vilify the victim rather than the murderer, they most certainly did argue that this kid was some uber violent drug crazed super-human strength wielding villain based on his skin tone.

The jury believed this nonsense, even tho absurd, and most definitely because it wasn't a white child being vilified.

Legally correct and fair are not the same thing, you may well be correct that the trial was legal, but it was most obviously far from fair.

[rl6214]

136. Seems like this guy is changing everything he said

Is he incompetent or just an idiot?

[cpwm17]

144. I watched his testimony a couple of days ago

He sucked. It was a disaster. He needed to be fired. The CT'ers may still support him.

It's yes to both.

*edit: Though, I'm not sure if he really claimed that TM was shot in the back. I'm not sure where that claim originated.

[rl6214]

155. I think elsewhere in this thread that comment is shown to be a lie

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

142. Many people believe that Trayvon was shot in the back.

[Monster_Mash]

151. Based on what?

The wounds on his body and clothing are in the front...

What evidence do they use to refute that? ... or is it more of a hope and wish sort of thing?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

168. Ask them. I don't know. That's what they believe and apparently Dr. Bao does too.

More inclined to believe them than the racist Zimmerman worshippers.

[Crabby Appleton]

169. Do you have a link to a source

supporting your contention that Dr. Bao believes Trayvon Martin was shot in the back. He testified in court Martin was shot from the front.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

170. Oh, I thought that someone just posted upthread that he thought Trayvon was shot in the

back. I'll go back and read again but not right now. I need to get to work. Later.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

171. Read the OP...

"According to the former assistant coroner, the results of Martin’s autopsy clearly showed that, despite Zimmerman’s statements regarding their altercation, there was no feasible way for Martin to have been on top of Zimmerman when the gun was fired, because the bullet entered Martin’s back."

I guess I assumed that if the bullet entered his back he must've been shot from the back and I know that there were a lot of people who called in to talk shows and here on DU and elsewhere who believe that he was.

I don't know what I believe. All I know is that a racist asshole with an axe to grind was pursuing an unarmed black kid who was walking home from the store in the rain, confronted him, murdered him, and got away with it. And his racist, gun-loving cheerleaders are still cheering him on, even in this thread.

I really don't give a damn about logistics. That Zimmerman remains a free man and that there apparently was a deliberate cover-up and obstruction of justice should be most concerning.

[Crabby Appleton]

172. The OP isn't Dr. Bao

the OP posted a link to story whose original source retracted the "in the back" claim.

Read the thread.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

176. The thread hasn't been updated, and I don't have time to go back over and over

again on a thread with all these replies if it hasn't been updated. It's not my responsibility to update the thread. It's the OP's.

Nevertheless, the issue has been corrected. See my post above.

Regardless, as I said, the issue for me is moot. It doesn't matter how Trayvon got shot. It matters that an unarmed kid is dead and the killer is free...and said killer is dangerous. That is clear. He continues to pose a threat. And he continues to keep his gun. And yet, his cheerleaders egg him on. It's like they want him to kill again and get away with it.

[pintobean]

173. This is why the OP should be updated

You are being deceived by omission. You shouldn't have to go through all the replies to find that this story is bullshit. Here's what it now says in the OP's source:

The source for this story has now edited the part about Trayvon being shot in the back out of the story and said at this point this can not be verified.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

175. Well, thank you. I stand corrected. However, it is the case that there are many

who think Trayvon was shot from the back. I think it's a moot point.

[pintobean]

178. Yes, the "they"

that you are not part of and can't identify, but you are "more inclined to believe".

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

179. Why the hostility? I didn't say I believe them. I think it's a moot point.

I don't care HOW Trayvon got shot. To me, it makes no difference. Trayvon is dead. A racist asshole killed him. That's the point. Not *HOW* he got shot.

And if you think I'm a liar, then fuck you! You can go straight to hell. I have seen here on DU and have heard people call into radio stations with the theory that he was shot in the back. I didn't say I believed that, but I have heard it. And so what? For me, it makes absolutely NO difference.

Again, an unarmed black kid is dead. And I don't give a flying fuck HOW he died. He is dead. And his killer roams free with his gun in tow.

To hell with you if you think it's more important to argue about this stupid, inconsequential shit.

You're now on IGNORE. Enjoy replying to yourself.

[pintobean]

181. .

Response to Monster_Mash (Reply #151)

Mon Sep 16, 2013, 06:52 AM

Star Member Liberal_Stalwart71 (15,106 posts)
168. Ask them. I don't know. That's what they believe and apparently Dr. Bao does too.

More inclined to believe them than the racist Zimmerman worshippers.

[fadedrose]

147. Oh good grief

Those poor parents.

I even feel sorry for the hood-winked jury...

There are experts on what marijuana can or can't do. Call them in too to absolve the drug of blame and put it where it belongs - the anger and rage of
GZ, and pinpoint who in the prosecution should be in jail...

[B Calm]

154. GZ was fighting with his wife when he shot Martin, but for some unknown reason

that wasn't brought up at the trial either. To me that was evidence that George Zimmerman took his anger out on Trayvon Martin!

[pintobean]

157. ***UPDATE*** Your source has noted the retraction

The source for this story has now edited the part about Trayvon being shot in the back out of the story and said at this point this can not be verified.

That excerpt is from your link in the OP.

Dailey Kos, FreakOutNation, and Alternet have all made the correction. When will you? DU deserves facts.

[NYC_SKP]

177. This is what happens when we use "Kos" as a source.

No wonder this place gets so excited so often. Gosh, we must look really silly to anyone watching.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

180. And you Zimmerman cheerleaders will take joy in the death of an unarmed black kid.

[Boom Sound 416]

158. FAIL

[Donald Ian Rankin]

161. I think this can probably be safely dismissed and ignored as a conspiracy theory. N.T.