General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo, those preferring a diplomatic soution were wrong when they wanted it
AND wrong when Obama wanted it?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Our love of peace was never any deeper than our hatred of him.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)last1standing
(11,709 posts)I called for diplomacy and was insulted. Now, I'm glad diplomacy is working and am being called a racist and told I don't want diplomacy. What's your opinion on that?
Avalux
(35,015 posts)If others are doing that, they're wrong.
last1standing
(11,709 posts)He's now trying to justify it with weasel words but the meaning hasn't changed a bit. He's pretty much calling people racists then shrugging while mumbling, "just saying..."
Avalux
(35,015 posts)I chose to write something else and not address the racist part. Reading it again now, I agree that what the poster wrote was not appropriate.
last1standing
(11,709 posts)How can anyone have an honest discussion after being called a racist? That kind of comment serves one purpose, that of dehumanizing the opponent for a quick and sleazy score.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Neo-DU will not be allowed to rewrite their history.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)Even Bush said that
tridim
(45,358 posts)And a diplomatic solution was reached. DERP^2.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)The general public at this time would not tolerate a politician saying, "we will go to war even if a diplomatic solution exists". No matter what the plan or intention is, they will always say they prefer a diplomatic solution. It doesn't mean that what is said isn't sincere. Im just saying, its also expected and been used insincerely
tridim
(45,358 posts)Whatever the fuck that means
sibelian
(7,804 posts)What did he do?
Avalux
(35,015 posts)He could have said "I'm the decider" and done whatever the hell he wanted. He didn't, and I give him credit for being prescient enough to see another option and allow the situation to unfold. If the outcome is a diplomatic solution, of course he had a hand in it and deserves credit.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)It's on the path to being a possibility. More so than yesterday, much more so than last week.
So it's a good thing...right?
last1standing
(11,709 posts)It's a great thing that this is happening and I'm happy for Obama to take credit, rightly or wrongly. I'm not happy to sit down and shut up as morons call me racist in their need to keep the flames of hatred stoked.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)can you provide some kind of evidence linkage wise?
last1standing
(11,709 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)that pretty well covers it, no?
There are all sorts here like rapists, that's for sure.
A couple came out and admitted it a while back, so yah, I'm pretty sure there are some racists too. *gasp!
last1standing
(11,709 posts)We both know that so we now both know you support it.
I find both your motivations sickening.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)some were sexist, some were racist, all kinds got the hammer.
so don't tell me they don't exist here. that's nonsense.
I'm am not going to accuse anyone specifically and never did.
If you can't see that for what it is, then, have fun with your last straw of whining that Syria may not be bombed after all.
last1standing
(11,709 posts)Like the thread I linked, these are weasel words used to justify sickening behavior.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)the usual threads about Obama is a Warmongering Blood thirsty Ferengi Evol Souless Being
and now another bone has to be had to chew on. a much lesser one, but damn, those teeth need to be sharp for the next non scandal.
have fun.
last1standing
(11,709 posts)It's one or the other. Otherwise you wouldn't keep trying to divert from the truth.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)last1standing
(11,709 posts)That's a classic example of a personality that really feels inferior. Maybe that's why you can't admit to being wrong.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Over that OP?
last1standing
(11,709 posts)Disgusting.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Please note the genesis of that sub-thread was a declaration we hate Obama. We've also been told we're sexually aroused by Putin and have no sympathy for dead children.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Obama got himself in a very difficult position with his push for a military attack on Syria. The Brits didn't support it, the UN wasn't going to support it, Congress wasn't going to support it. I give him credit for embracing the Russian initiative; that gives him a way to step back from the brink.
I don't know anyone who should be eating crow right now except perhaps the crowd that was cheering on the necessity of attacking Syria. That's apparently off the table, at least for now.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)show me cheering for bombing, please.
becuase I'm pretty sure you saw that, *ahem, elsewhere.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)the pro-war contingent had so shamefully lost its mind. Then, when you are shown that the pro-war contingent was in fact making accusations of racism -- you endorse those accusations.
Yours is bigger than mine --
Whisp
(24,096 posts)I have seen more of that from the dreadful Boggers and others that think the President is a good, thinking man, than 'cheering for war'. good lawd.
but you have your fun and glory with that racism thing, you got nothing else seeing as Syria looks like it might not get bombed and Obama isn't a blood dripping evil wall streetin' MIC lovin' sucka like some hoped.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)And while I believe Syria won't get bombed I'll be so bold as to predict any efforts to reduce its stockpiles will A) be dragged out well past Obama's tenure if at all and B) all but unverifiable and C) Obama will be content to leave it that way because this whole thing was based on a "red lines" comment he never seriously considered.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)*scratches head.
*scratches dog's head (he liked that)
*went over and scratched the neighbour's head (he didn't like that so much)
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Even if you prefer not to.
polichick
(37,152 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)They wanted cupcakes.
As Obama has been sending for years now.
DesMoinesDem
(1,569 posts)Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)and blame Obama first, last and always.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I never thought Obama wanted to invade or attack Syria and I still do not think he wants to. Not unless Congress decides we should.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)that both Obama and Kerry prefer using diplomacy?
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Or maybe it was 11-dimensional chess. I don't know.
All I know is what I hear them say.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)quite the distinction.
but if you are one that thinks this admin should be totally transparent in everything - and some do - they should have discussed everything on CSPAN for your approval. All the ifs ands or buts about resolving this situation should have been made public so everyone knew, even Pootie Tootie and the Asshats (good band name).
groan.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I thought that term had negative affects, which had to do with starting unneeded wars.
This was not to start a war. It was to intervene in a war that already existed and had gone beyond human decency.
If you think we can be total pacifists and survive, that's delusional. If we let off the message that we won't do anything about chemical attacks, they would increase.
Plus Pooty Poot was not cooperating until recently. That gave hope that had not existed before.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)a person who advocates for military action. That is what he has been doing, perhaps it is not what he is, but a look at his voting record, Yes to Iraq and all that, suggests that he is shall we say, decidedly hawkish in many circumstances.
polichick
(37,152 posts)We wanted a diplomatic solution.
We still want one, now that Obama wants it too.
But we don't think it was all a master plan by a 3D chess-playing Superman - so we're wrong.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)Am I glad things are working out so far? Yes.
Am I an "all's well that ends well" kind of person? Not so much. How you get from A to B matters.
pampango
(24,692 posts)He used a naval blockade of Cuba as part of the means to achieve it, but it ended with a diplomatic solution.
Those who wanted a diplomatic solution without any military involvement were not wrong, but neither were those, including Kennedy, who thought that applying military pressure would help facilitate a diplomatic solution.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)pay attention.
I supported (still do) the president on this and he has went about it in a manner that has made more progress than doing nothing, just striking as soon as he could, or going back again to face a veto.
Those who wanted him to do nothing or the same thing as last time would have ended up with the same thing as last time.
Nothing.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)What do you mean by that? What did he do?
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Sent ships, said he would strike, brought in congress to authorize the strike and basically said no matter what they did he could still strike.
In other words - he carried a big stick and got the Russians' attention and that of Syria and the rest of the world.
Last year we just asked nicely for the UN to please let observers in, and got a veto.
This year he tried a harder tactic, and got results. Suddenly people are paying attention, even here on DU, whereas before it was hardly mentioned.
Worked didn't it? Look at all the threads on it, how Syria is reacting, etc.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)They still might elude us.
Just remember that Russia has been blocking any resolutions of even the weakest sort at the UN regarding Syria. Suddenly they seem a bit more willing not just to cooperate, but to even acknowledge that there is a problem.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)My question pertains more to the fact that those who sought a diplomatic solution at all were repeatedly accused of lacking moral fibre for not wanting to bomb Syria and avenge the deaths of innocent children. Via a teensy weensy goal-free messagey bomcing campaign. Now suddenly we're expected to believe that diplomacy was the goal all along when nothing whatsoever supports that hypothesis other than a series of emotionally charged assertions.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Pretty simple, actually. It is not the goals that differ, but the methods. Oh, and the fact that Obama's methods actually accomplish the goal, while the methods of his detractors flap around on the ground.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)I don't see a brilliant master plan, but I will give him credit for taking this diplomatic track now. It also gets him out of the horrible box he painted himself into with his horribly unpopular (British parliament, US Congress, US public) threat to strike militarily.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,437 posts)but it might have taken the threat of force to get here. I mean, what incentive did Syria (and Russia) have to come to the table without a threat of force against Syria, particularly since they want to have the US raining missles on them as much as most of the public here in the US and around the world did? It seems as though diplomacy was still occurring throughout this whole process as well and I think that it's fair to say that we'd already have missles flying by now and there wouldn't be any talk about consulting with Congress if we had President McCain or President Romney calling the shots. I never was particularly for or against strikes and just as relieved that we might not actually strike them- but this thing is still far from over.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)Saying he's PNAC. Saying he hires, funds, trains and arms Al Qaeda in Syria. Calling Obama supporters Al Qaeda fans. That actually happened.
THAT WAS FUCKING WRONG.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Meanwhile, Obama continues to fund, train, and arm rebels in Syria. So while the threat of overt attack recedes for now, the covert war continues.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)Fuck that shit. AFAIC that's fucking crazy talk. That's my opinion. Crazy talk. Woo. Batshit.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)He is, however, funding, training, and arming other rebel elements. Publicly for a few months, covertly, for who knows how long. We are already players in this little war.
Now watch them demand links or deny they said it.
Skittles
(153,193 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)When it has been in the works several months.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)pursuing a diplomatic solution now.
That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.