Wanna hear something crazy? My daughter loses her food stamps if she takes more than 5 credits

[Flying Squirrel]

at the community college (she's a freshman). Unless she's working at least 20 hours per week as well.

She lives at home with me, and we both currently qualify for food stamps.

So let me get this straight. She's expected to work MORE at the same time that she is taking more credits.

Guess that's why they call 'em starving students, huh?

[mahina]

1. That is nuts!

Sounds like somebody doesn't want people to get educated!

[hfojvt]

32. maybe they should be educated at the library

instead of expecting the public to subsidize their tuition.

Logically, if you can afford college classes, then you can afford food.

[Flying Squirrel]

36. You sound like you're on the wrong message board

Spewing RW talking points. Here's some logic for ya - if you're poor, you qualify for financial aid. So you're not paying for college. See, there's this thing called the American Dream that they try to tell us is still real, where poor people get the chance to advance and not stay poor their entire lives. That means education, which they would not be able to afford if it were not subsidized. Now if you had the choice to hire someone who went to the library and read a bunch of books, and has no degree to prove they know anything, or someone with a college degree relating to the profession, who are you going to hire? Oh, I guess my intelligent but poor daughter should just work at menial labor her whole life while her brain atrophies and her soul slowly dies. Don't say that's not what you meant, I read your other posts on the subject. I don't care how long you've been here, you're on the wrong message board. Bye now.

[hfojvt]

42. I have two college degrees myself

yet since I quit my job for the military industrial complex, I have spent my life working menial labor.

You think all people working menial labor have atrophied brains and dead souls?

Yeah, unfortunately that is NOT a rightwing talking point. It's a leftwing one - the one that says the working class (you know, the ones doing those menial jobs that are so far beneath your daughter) are a bunch of braindead a$$holes. Braindead - brain atrophied (check), a$$holes - soul dead (check).

Yeah, here are some examples of how much my brain has atrophied from mopping floors and cleaning toilets.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/169

solidarnosc

[hedgehog]

53. There are plenty of menial jobs that people mighrt enjoy doing -

if they were able to feed and house their families on the wage! For now, going to college isn't a guarantee of a decent wage, but it's the best bet.

[hfojvt]

59. a job people might enjoy doing

In general, I have not taken jobs because "I think I might enjoy doing that".

Many people, I am sure, like myself, take a job because they need a job, not because they somehow enjoy doing what the job entails. Sure I have applied for some jobs, like statistician or librarian (I have applied for a lot of those) that I thought I MIGHT enjoy, but I seem to not get about 90% of the jobs I apply for. You goto work at the job you have, not the job you want.

A "decent wage" also means far, far more than just "feeding and housing a family". A decent wage means living in style, not just surviving.

[KansDem]

2. Must be a national trend

We have something similar taking place here in Kansas.

Kansas Changes Food Stamp Requirements To Mandate Work

--excerpt--
In Kansas, the policy change is being greeted warmly by conservative Republicans, who dominate state politics. State Rep. Travis Couture-Lovelady (R-Palco) told The Huffington Post that he sees the shift as a way for those receiving government assistance to get jobs instead of remaining in an assistance program.

"Government assistance should be just that, a safety net, not a long-term way of life," Couture-Lovelady said. "Government assistance should be a hand up, not a hand-out. Individuals who take short-term assistance to avoid long-term dependency need to maintain empowerment over their lives, and a work requirement does just that."

Progressives in the state say the policy change will only hurt the less fortunate. Topeka Councilman Chad Manspeaker (D), a leader of the state's progressive movement, told HuffPost that the policy shift will force more adults in the state to turn to soup kitchens and food pantries in order to eat. He said this will put an additional strain on nonprofits, along with shifting the expense to local governments, which fund many of the emergency food programs.

"We have not shifted the long-term problem," Manspeaker said. "There aren't jobs out there, and we don't solve it by starving them."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/04/kansas-food-stamps_n_3868477.html

Oh, but this GOPer thinks that there are jobs. You just need to know where to look!:

State Rep. J.R. Claeys (R-Salina) told HuffPost that part-time jobs are available around the state and that those looking to meet the minimum work requirement just need to know where to look.

"The jobs that are 20 hours a week are in the service and retail industries, and those jobs are not hard to find in any part of the state," Claeys said.

So, cheer up! You can make a living working 20 hours a week at WalMart of McDonald's!

[TalkingDog]

25. People should call it what it is: State Sponsored Slavery

If they are working for anybody Corporation or small business where profit is an outcome, it's slavery.

[hfojvt]

33. Chad got elected to city council?

Way to go.

But I still think he is wrong about this.

If they cannot find a job, the law allows them to do job training.

If they don't want to do anything and just want a free meal ticket, then I have little sympathy for them. I work too hard at my own job. It's your city, your county, your state, your country, your world - get out there and contribute to it, even if it is not all fun and games.

[Skittles]

3. see, they REALLY try to hold you and your daughter accountable

instead of, you know, holding people who start sensless wars and crash the economy accountable

[LuvNewcastle]

4. I've got another one.

I live in public housing. If I take more than 9 hours, I'll lose my housing. I understand why they have it set up that way; they don't have enough public housing to put up all the struggling students as well as the people on public assistance. But these regulations also hurt people who are working to make their financial situation better so they can move out of these places. There's all sorts of little caveats like that in federal regulations that deal with getting help. It would be socialistic to help out people who aren't totally indigent, you know.

[SoCalDem]

6. Because struggling students may be situationally/temporarily poor

and they may be reserving low income housing for older poor people who cannot work., for handicapped people who cannot work, or for single moms with very small kids.

Traditionally, students have teamed up with other roommates and shared expenses.. Not as easy as it once was, though..

[LuvNewcastle]

8. I understand it; it makes sense that they do it that way,

considering the limited amount of places they have for rent. Most of the people living where I live are fairly young, though. I think a lot of them would go to school if they could. Under the system we have, however, I suppose they can't do things any other way. Besides, with the economy we have and the prospects we have for the future, I really don't know how much good it would do for any more people to get degrees.

[SoCalDem]

12. My son had people with degrees applying for $15 hr maintenance jobs

He felt bad, but the jobs were for trainees, so he was unable to accommodate the higher qualified people

[TalkingDog]

27. Yep, try getting a minimum wage job with a Masters Degree. You might as well have leprous sores.

n/t

[Chan790]

26. We need more public housing.

We also need to remove the stigma of living in public housing...everybody up to the poverty line should be entitled to a free government domicile if they want one and people up throughout the middle-class should be able to get subsidized housing on a sliding-contribution scale.

Shelter is a right. Nutritious food is a right. Safety is a right. Selfishness and other conservative values are not rights.

[kestrel91316]

57. [phone]

[hedgehog]

52. This could easily be worked out if someone wanted to -

based on family income and/or prior residence in public housing.

This is where student loans can really bite - someone gets enough in a Pell grant to pay for tuition, then goes on the hook for thousands of dollars in loans each semester for housing!

[Jamastiene]

5. Yet, they always make provisions for more wars.

Every time the budget comes up, they start complaining about the poor and cutting more and more already meager programs for the poor. Yet, they always seem to have plenty of money when they want to drop bombs. It infuriates me.

Your daughter is being punished for being a hard worker. That's how our system is set up. Those who work hard are punished while those who don't even bother trying can reap the benefits with no penalties. Those jerks in Congress have no clue what they are doing. They have no idea how to manage these programs in any reasonable way. They are so obsessed with cutting services for the poor and pinching pennies to save up for more bombs that they cannot think straight long enough to come up with a program that makes any sense.

I hope she can come up with a way to take less classes and still jump the right hoops to not lose food. It is a shame she is having to deal with such nonsense simply because she is trying.

[negoldie]

7. Same ole

I ran into this problem back in the mid nineties when I returned to school as a grad student. I had to work at least twenty hours a week to qualify. Note that I had a work-study job on the books for ten hours a week. The other 50 hours was spent bar tending and surveying, off the books. But don't cry for me the IRS caught up with me and I paid dearly, a $390 tax bill costs me over three grand.
As an aside I also took out about five grand in loans of which after paying for ten years now I only owe the banksters twenty five grand due to interruptions in payments, late fees, overdue fees, whatever they wish to charge. They (banksters involved in student loan sharking) will never let you go. I'm retired 60 years old, disabled and they still take $170 a month out of my disability check. Now I've spoken to three different attorneys, and to a person they all agree. There is nothing I can do about it. So for the rest of my short life (i have colon cancer) I'm still paying for that grad degree that I got to use all of four years.

[Mnemosyne]

9. That is heinously criminal, imo. So sorry to hear of your illness, negoldie.

[gopiscrap]

23. Welcome to DU

I don't things will change until we either have a major revolution or depression

[Hydra]

37. Welcome to DU!

And sorry to hear you've been screwed by the system. I hope you'll stay and lend your voice to us in that regard, because we have some very comfortable people here who think the people down here have done this to ourselves.

[rl6214]

45. The student loan can be discharged

I am in the process of doing just that. How often is your disability reviewed? If it is every five years it can be discharged. If it is less than five years, all you need is your DR to sign a form saying your condition has lasted at least five years and that it will last at least another five years.

[iamthebandfanman]

10. Yep!

welcome to the real world eh ?

I was shocked a few years ago when I applied for SNAP and was told the same thing...

"Oh, youre a full time student?"
"Know anybody you could do extra work for 20 hours a week ? Clean a house, do your families laundry, anything I could put down?"


Well, if I could find a job I wouldn't need 'em now would I ?

[historylovr]

11. K & R

[QC]

13. You in Florida?

One of my students had to drop out in order to keep his food stamps.

Insane!

[el_bryanto]

14. I had a job the whole time I was in school

Thought it was actually pretty healthy to have some time I wasn't 100% focused on schooling. Waited tables, worked in a library (both school and public actually), worked in a cafeteria (and boy is that a crap job), was an RA. Didn't hurt me any.

Bryant

[Butterbean]

21. I did as well. Still, my fundamental problem with this "regulation" is

that people should be able to work towards better lives for themselves if they can, in any capacity they can, as much as they are able and desire. People on the right scream about getting people off the system and not making them lifetime dependents, well then....let them effing go to school so that they can WORK TOWARDS INDEPENDENCE.

I just can't wrap my head around the intellectual disconnect here. We want you to get off public assistance and better yourself and pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. Oh, but you're not allowed to get too much schooling, and if you do, you'd damned well better be working a ton while you're at it.

When I was in college carrying a full load and working 20 hours a week, I was single with no kids. Lots of people on SNAP have children, which in and of itself is a full time job. What the hell, man? When are they supposed to sleep? Never?

This is what frustrates me to no end. There is absolutely no LOGIC in laws and regulations like this. None. It totally lacks foresight and looking at the bigger picture.

[CK_John]

15. Cyber-era is taking effect need to close 1/2 of all colleges because there are no jobs,

she should get into arts and crafts.

[Puzzledtraveller]

16. <<SNAP caseworker

That is correct, full time students who are not at least working 20 hrs per week or have primary care of a child under 12 are considered ineligible students. This rule has been in place for a long time.

[Capt. Obvious]

19. Really long time

as I just added below - it's been like that since I was in school.

[kath]

39. BUT - if she has a work/study job ( even for just a few hrs/week), then she qualifies ( depending on

Income level, of course) if she prepares more than half of her meals separately from you ( which makes her her own SNAP household of one person).
I KNOW this is true for students living out of the parents' home, not sure how her living with you changes things - check the regulations to be sure.

[kath]

40. See this site:

Since she's living with a parent, eligibility for a more-than-half-time student depends on whether she is over or under age 22, even if she does have a Work/Study job. and even if she does prepare most meals separately from you.
http://www.masslegalhelp.org/income-benefits/food-stamps/college

[Adrahil]

17. Dammit, that pisses me off. >:-( nt

[Capt. Obvious]

18. That was the case when I was in school in the 90's

I remember thinking - if I work more than 20 hours I won't need the stamps.

[marsis]

20. On the flip side

my daughter graduated second in her high school class. She got about $1,000 in scholarships for college. Her friend, bottom 25% of her high school class, got a free ride in collage ONLY because she got pregnant in high school. She couldn't handle the classes and dropped out. Now my daughter has $50k in student loans. Seems like we punish success and reward failure in this country.

Broken priorities?

[kcr]

22. Wow, what program is that?

What pays for all of college just because you get pregnant as a teen? More details, please.

[TalkingDog]

29. Srsly. That sounds almost TOO GOOD(?) TO BE TRUE.

n/t

[Chan790]

30. I'm doubting they're talking about a government program.

A lot of prestigious schools offer a number of hardship full-ride scholarships every year to "promising students from difficult situations who have overcome hardship." providing them an opportunity to get ahead and break the cycle of poverty.

He may have had a bad experience, but I support those programs. They work. My friend Dwayne is becoming an engineer on such a program, the son of two HS dropouts living in the Marcy projects in Brooklyn on the full array of NYS social services. His kid will have a better upbringing in a nicer place for it, D's life-earning potential several times more than it would be if he wasn't afforded this opportunity to attend Fordham on the charity of the alumni of that institution.

The way some self-identifying Democrats talk, you'd think it would be better to perpetuate a permanent underclass if doing so might save them a dime or a quantum of aggravation. They even gripe and oppose hand-ups that don't even personally negatively affect them.

[marsis]

31. I am all for

helping the underprivileged but that particular girl , although we love her, was in no way a good student and did not become one. This was 15 years ago and I do not remember all the details. I believe it was a state sponsored program to help single mothers. I do believe in helping people up the ladder, maybe this was just one of those "fell through the cracks thing" but it affected us directly.

Fact is, it did happen and all I said is true. I am glad there was aid for that girl but give me a friggin break, where was the help for the great student? My daughter did go on to earn a few thousand more in scholarships and a Masters degree but her debt is outrageous 15 years later. What is the lesson here?

I am not sure if that program is still in effect. If so, maybe the moral of the story is make sure your daughter gets pregnant (at least in Illinois) if you want affordable education so people around here can feel good about themselves.

[kcr]

34. You're all over the place, there.

You're all for helping the underprivileged, except for when you're not. It was 15 years ago, you don't remember all the details, but you're sure everything you say about it is true. Hmmm.

And where is help for the great student? If your claim is there are fewer opportunities for excellent students, then you're going to have to back that claim up. The fact that your daughter is in debt is not evidence that underprivileged people have it better or programs benefiting them somehow take away from the more privileged folk. If you truly think it through, I think you'll realize that even with the debt, your daughter probably comes out ahead of that friend of hers. Also, I'm interested in hearing how you think that the fact there was some program that existed 15 years ago that you're not even sure of on the details that may or may not even exist anymore affects you directly? Do you think your daughter's debt wouldn't exist today if it hadn't? I'm not understanding that one. I don't see how attacking programs for the underprivileged is going to solve the problem of skyrocketing tuition and predatory lending practices.

[dogknob]

24. One you are down, you are supposed to stay down n/t

[Drale]

28. I was denied Unemployment because "I was a student"

It was complete bullshit, and his boss refused to reverse the denial. It was complete bullshit all around.

[RebelOne]

50. Did you contest it?

That happened to me once because a former employer refused to pay unemployment benefits. I contested it and won.

[Drale]

51. No I should have but at the time my mom said not to

and I ended up just taking more classes then normal and finishing my degree so I didn't look for another job at the time. But looking back at it, I should have contested it just on principle.

[L0oniX]

35. The good news is ...we have money for war.

[drhobo]

38. system needs an overhaul

too many people exploiting public assistance and don't need it

too many honest people being denied assistance they do really need

[kiva]

41. That sounds pretty normal to me,

pretty much everyone I went to school with, and most of my students today, have that sort of a schedule.

[Sirveri]

43. They want her to take out student loans or live in the dorms.

If you're taking the loans then they want you to take out enough to survive without assistance. I'm guessing that the theory there is that every student would then apply for and get SNAP even when they don't really need it.

[rl6214]

44. I took a full load in college

While working full time, living on my own and paying for everything. YMMV.

[Flying Squirrel]

46. Man, I am sick and tired of people acting like nothing has changed

Since they went to college.

[rl6214]

47. Take a breath, that's why I put YMMV

You don't know if I went last week, last month, last year or last decade.

My wife went to school on grants, my son on student loans.

YMMV

[Lars39]

54. *Everbody's* mileage has varied, ie gotten worse, because wages haven't kept up with inflation.

[LanternWaste]

55. The precise relevance being...?

The precise relevance being...?

[rl6214]

60. I'd say pretty much the same as everyone else that has posted in this thread

Are you asking the same question of everyone that has posted in this thread?

Yeah I thought so.

And the relevance of your pat to this thread being?

[badtoworse]

48. I worked 20 hours per week while I was in school and carried 12 or 13 credits

It didn't kill me.

[JPZenger]

49. It sounds illogical...

I believe the rationale behind it is that college students are naturally low income, as far as their own household at college. If we made it easy for 10 million full-time college students to qualify for food stamps, it would drastically increase the cost of the program.

There should be exceptions to make it easier for people to start taking classes after having been on food stamps for a period of time. There are other exceptions for some public benefits -- which are designed to help people make the transition to raise themselves up, so they no longer need the benefits over time.

[glowing]

56. I quite often loaded my credits... Guess it's changed since I've

gone to college... I normally took 19 to 21 credit hours, this included labs which only counted as 1 credit and I worked 32 hrs a week (considered full time that I got bennies and vacation and such).

Normally 1 class would equal 3 credits and 1 lab would equal 1 credit (even though it was a 3 hr time block just like the course work corresponding with it).

And I had a boyfriend, a shared apartment with a roommate, and found time to get drunk, high, and have sex...

If she can't handle a couple of classes plus work 20 hrs, then I'm not sure what is wrong with her because that is much less than a normal 40hr work week in the real world.

She's lucky she qualifies for the food stamps and college assistance, I had to work, take loans, and pay my way thru all of it. Granted some things were cheaper 10 yrs ago, but not all that much.

Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me!

[WolverineDG]

58. I worked while I was in college

Part-time, sometimes carrying 18 hour course loads. Didn't get food stamps either.

Just about everyone I knew in college was in the same boat & we survived.