Whistleblower My Ass: Snowden's Russia Connection Confirmed by Putin

[michigandem58]

Some time ago, I wrote about a story that Edward Snowden was in contact with Russian authorities well before his arrival in Moscow and while he was still in Hong Kong. Now, Vladimir Putin has confirmed it...

Russian President Vladimir Putin has admitted that Edward Snowden contacted Russian diplomats in Hong Kong a few days before boarding a plane to Moscow but that no agreement was reached to shelter him and he decided to come to Russia on his own without warning. [...]

“Mr. Snowden first appeared in Hong Kong and met with our diplomatic representatives. It was reported to me that there was such an employee, an employee of the security services.

But if you ask Snowden's worshipers, this in no way shows that Snowden willingly took Russian shelter or that he gave or sold US intelligence to Russia. Because you know, the Russian government said so - a peculiar stand for people who do not believe that evidence of meta data collection doesn't also mean that the government is reading your emails and listening to your phone calls without a warrant. Apparently, Putin's government is to be trusted; Obama's, not so much.

http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2013/09/whistleblower-my-ass-snowdens-russia.html

[hobbit709]

1. Here we go again

[silvershadow]

57. I know, right? nt

[nikto]

83. Can't we all get along...

...with stupid fuckheads?

Let's just accept their stupid fuckheadedness,
and move on.

Snowden is neither devil nor angel (he is just trying to survive now), but he did do all of us a service
by revealing what The Empire is actually doing above and beyond our consent.

I'm outa' this stupid thread...

[Enrique]

2. this slime reflects badly on Obama

just so you know.

[Cali_Democrat]

10. Obama wrote this?

[Enrique]

44. of course not

but it still reflects badly on him. It makes it look like to support Obama you have to slime people.

[CakeGrrl]

62. Wow. Major logic fail here!

You might want to revisit the definition of "sliming". This is more like unpleasant fact - at least for those who want to lionize Snowden as some heroic whistleblower.

[Mojorabbit]

72. Not a logic fail. It really does make you all look ridiculous.

Only an idiot would not have tried to contact Russia if they were boxed in and needed a place to go and Russia was an option. I am sure he tried to contact a whole slew of countries. This has been posted multiple times and is as stupid now as the first time.

[tsuki]

104. Amen. nt

[bunnies]

3. I liked your old username much better.

Broke up with Dean, eh?

[seabeyond]

4. definition of a traitor would be....

nothing much more than that. yea... lets worship.

[shenmue]

5. As usual

People just catcall instead of addressing the issue. Snowden is a crappy spy, not the new savior of our country. He produced nothing good for us and only made worse the situation with the Russians. Thanks, guy!

[HangOnKids]

95. Savior of our country?

Really that is fucking hilarious! Love how you addressed the issue and didn't catcall.

[Union Scribe]

6. So in a screed about not trusting Russia or Putin

the dolt blogger you like so much relies on... info from Putin. Well done.

[cthulu2016]

7. So the clod who writes this blog believes Russia when

convenient while laughing at Russia's chronic dishonesty?

[SidDithers]

8. DU rec...nt

Sid

[Cha]

9. Yes, it was not for nothing that snowden was praising Russia on Human Rights..

too bad the facts make him a liar.

[leftstreet]

11. That blog is really creepy

All the debate at DU over the credibility of sources like RT or ALJ, yet this 'blog' passes muster?

weird

[Egalitarian Thug]

13. This poster pimps his blog here (and probably everyplace else he's allowed) in every post. n/t

[leftstreet]

16. It's like Joseph Goebbels publishing Teen Beat

[7962]

23. Now THAT just made me burst out laughing!

I mean, just picture that.....

[Maedhros]

25. The blog belongs to michigandem?

That explains much.

[grasswire]

43. agreed -- it smacks of Tucker Carlson

Same kind of ugly innuendo and speculation.

[Whisp]

63. not creepier than Snowden and his human rights champion, Putin.

but to avoid That Lump of Epic Fail, The Snowed Ones will crit the OP and the article instead.

Putin, the Champion of Human Rights

lawd love a duck.

[Marr]

12. Don't you have a war to sell? /nt

[davidn3600]

14. Cool story!! .... So how does this change the fact the NSA is spying on us illegally?

[sulphurdunn]

26. It doesn't

anymore than picking a fight with Syria, but it makes a good distraction and gets the NSA out of the news cycle, at least the fight with Syria does.

[Thinkingabout]

29. How is does the NSA spy on us illegally?

[Pholus]

68. He is talking in the pre-9/11 meaning of the word.

Certainly, after Congress and the President conspired to make it legal so that "the gloves could come off," it became legal.

Of course, that sucks worse.

At least many of our finest exports can now be sold domestically so they can be used as they were meant to be used!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-transparent-state-enemy-western-surveillance-technology-in-the-hands-of-despots-a-802317-2.html

[Thinkingabout]

69. You have the wrong information, try reading the Fourth Amendment and then the FISA

Act and its history, the FISA ACt was enacted before 9/11.

[blackspade]

73. And then amended after.

And maybe you need to keep up with the news about the NSA Surveillance....

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/eff-victory-results-expected-release-secret-court-opinion-finding-nsa-surveillance

[Thinkingabout]

74. If you was getting creditable news and know the correct information then you would know it is not

Illegal spying. You are apparently repeating incorrect information some of the news medias wants you to believe, facts are facts.

[blackspade]

77. So the EFF acquired documents from the FISA court that are incorrect?

So you are claiming that official FISA documents are false?
And the the EFF is not a credible source?
If facts are facts, please present yours rather than your unsupported opinion.

[Thinkingabout]

84. You are upside down on this, again read and understand the Fourth Amendment and read

And understand the FISA Act, they are both worth reading. BTW, I do believe the Fourth Amendment and know the FISA Act was enacted.

[Pholus]

87. I've read them. The parts I'm allowed to at least.

That you're not worried about that last bit says more about you than it does about me.

[blackspade]

89. You didn't answer my questions.

Please explain your assertions.

[Sand Wind]

15. Kick

[sheshe2]

17. K&R! nt

[HardTimes99]

18. Oh, look, it's the cut-n-run liar posting his lies again - nt

[DevonRex]

19. Wall Street Journal: (Haha, Putin is a fucking liar) Snowden couldn't go to Cuba

because the US voided his passport. Good God. The US voided his passport while he was in Hong Kong but he still flew to Russia. Putin isn't even bothering to lie well. He wants the whole world to know this was his operation. He's a typical sociopath. He wants credit for his "kills." Just like a serial killer. Which he is. Ex-KGB asshole.

WSJ:
http://blogs.wsj.com/emergingeurope/2013/09/04/putin-says-snowden-was-in-touch-before-coming-to-russia/?mod=WSJ_hps_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsTop

"The Russian leader said the next time he heard about Mr. Snowden was two hours before the Aeroflot flight that brought him to Moscow was due to land. He had initially planned to connect with a flight to Cuba and ultimately to Ecuador where he had obeen promised asylum, but was stopped in his tracks when the U.S. voided his passport.

Mr. Putin, who was in the KGB during the Soviet Union, criticized that decision as poor tradecraft as it stranded Mr. Snowden in Russia where U.S. agents would be unable to get to him.

“Representatives of the American special services–and I hope they won’t be angry–but they could have been more professional, and the diplomats as well. After they found out that he was flying to us, and that he was flying as a transit passenger, there was pressure from all sides — from the Americans, from the Europeans — instead of just letting him go to a country where they could operate easily,” he said.

Mr. Putin said Russia would not consider returning Mr. Snowden to America to face trial as the two countries do not have a formal extradition treaty."

[Thinkingabout]

33. what f**king idiot did not know his passport could be revolked if he committed a crime in the US?

[DevonRex]

47. Oh hell. He was an FSB agent all along. Russia was his planned destination.

Cuba already said they would have taken him no matter what the US did. Russia took him without a passport. Remember, at first he stayed at the airport because he did not have a passport so he couldn't enter.

So Putin's story today is very different from the facts. He flew to Russia without a passport because it had been revoked in Hong Kong. Now Putin is saying it was revoked after he got to Russia. They knew he didn't have one before he left the Russian embassy in Hong Kong. And since Cuba NEVER said he couldn't come, this was all a PR stunt by Putin and Snowden. They made a big deal about asylum. It's all bullshit.

[Thinkingabout]

54. Are you saying Snowden did nit know his passport could be revoked? Then ignorance of the laws is

Not a defense so it falls on Snowden.

[DevonRex]

58. No. I'm saying that he knew it would not matter

because he always intended to go to Russia. He is a Russian agent. So he flew to Hong Kong, stayed at the Russian Embassy, and flew to Russia.

They cooked up a long public relations stunt to hurt the US as much as possible, with the asylum bid and him staying in the transit zone. But it was all bullshit to make Russia look good and us look bad. And of course Snowden got asylum and is living there. And turned over all that stuff he stole.

[Skraxx]

66. Certainly Seems Plausible

And fits the data, IMO it fits better than "principled heroic human rights freedom fighter....who flees to repressive human rights violator Putin with a trove of stolen top.secret data that had nothing to do with domestic spying".

[DevonRex]

75. Besides the fact

that he could have flown straight to South America. There are nonstop flights. His excuse was total bullshit. That because he had a clearance he couldn't fly to SA but could fly to HK. Yeah, right.

[truebluegreen]

42. Don't recall having to show my passport to leave a country

but I sure have to show it when I arrive....or I might get stuck in a transit zone in an airport.

[DevonRex]

56. Use your head.

Snowden's passport was revoked while he was staying in the Russian Embassy in Hong Kong. Russia knew he didn't have a passport. It was arranged that he fly from HK to Moscow to Havana.

Castro has recently come forward to say that Cuba NEVER said Snowden couldn't come to Havana. So Snowden didn't have to stay in transit in the Moscow airport. After all, it was Russian officials arranged the trip in the first place.

Therefore, this was a planned PR stunt. If Russia really didn't want Snowden, and if Snowden really didn't want to be in Russia, Putin would have had Snowden on that plane to Havana no matter what. And if Cuba didn't want him, Snowden would have been stuck in their transit zone or smuggled out to Venezuela on a damned fishing boat.

This is neither rocket science nor brain surgery. The first rule of Putin is that he does what he wants to do. Really, it's the first rule of humankind. People usually do what they want to so. But with Putin, it's guaranteed that every move is to his benefit. Every single move.

[Cha]

59. Of course, it was a planned fake out that willfully goes Whoosh

over snowden heads.

[DevonRex]

71. What more does Putin have to do? Put it on Times Square?

In big lights: Snowden Is A Russian Spy And We Played You!

Or make it a musical on Broadway? He really loves using our media to screw with us. Next it'll be the Arts. Make no mistake. He views all these things as weaknesses. He loves our freedoms because he can exploit them. He restricts freedom in his own country because he doesn't want any avenue that can be used against him.

And people here believe him over Secretary of State John Kerry. What the hell?

[truebluegreen]

85. Not according to reports I've seen

which state that Snowden left Hong Kong before they were notified of his passport status.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/nsa-leaker-edward-snowden-seeks-asylum-ecuador/story?id=19466318

Or you can believe the widely-quoted word of an anonymous senior administration official.

Don't believe I will.

P.S. the fact that Putin is an authoritarian despot who does what he wants doesn't make our actions pristine, in this or anything.

[Recursion]

98. Most countries other than the US do passport stamps on exit

Mostly to make sure you didn't overstay your visa; that's one of the reasons we have so much trouble catching people who overstay their visas here, because we don't stamp on exit, so we have no idea who has and hasn't overstayed in the past.

[leftynyc]

101. I had to show my passport

when I checked into my flight from NYC to Athens just last month.

[Renew Deal]

107. I've had to show it to leave

Even in Canada

[DisgustipatedinCA]

20. I think you can make good money if your ass is a whistleblower.

Sure, it will be carny sideshow money, but there's a demographic that will definitely pay to see you whistle out of your ass. Godspeed.

[Fuddnik]

40. You beat me to my post.

But, I'd pay $5.00 to see him do it anyway.

[QC]

81. It's already been done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_P%C3%A9tomane

[Fuddnik]

41. Here, pull my finger.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

45. Does your ass play those 80's style MIDI tunes like they had in some car horns back then?

Or do you have the 320Kbps MP3 ass upgrade?

[Capt. Obvious]

21. This should be posted in LBN

[zeemike]

24. Or better yet

In creative speculation.

[Maedhros]

22. I'm confused.

The story so far is that Snowden traveled to Hong Kong and then on to Moscow en route to an undetermined destination (originally cited as possibly Iceland). Upon arrival at the Moscow airport the heat was turned up on Russia to extradite Snowden to the U.S. and he feared to leave the airport lest he be detained and deported. Multiple requests were made by Snowden for asylum in South America but none were granted. Eventually an asylum arrangement was reached with Russia with the condition that Snowden not leak any more information.

How does

...no agreement was reached to shelter him and he decided to come to Russia on his own without warning.

prove that Snowden was working for the Russians? It fits the prior narrative. All it shows is that he attempted to negotiate an asylum agreement prior to traveling to Moscow, which is entirely understandable. It does not imply that Snowden was spying for the Russians.

[sulphurdunn]

32. Dammit!

Are you doing that critically thinking stuff again?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

27. No logic behind your thesis.

Just because he contacted Russia from Hong Kong after he was already on the run does not mean that he was not a whistleblower.

Sequence of events:

1) Whistleblowing

2) Run to Hong Kong

3) Contact Russia

4) Go to Moscow airport (technically not Russia)

Clear enough.

[pinboy3niner]

30. Consider the source

[Bernardo de La Paz]

34. What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Not everybody is a brilliant as you or as totally clued in as you are, so why not spell it out (if your point has any merit)?

To begin with, which source? The OP michigandem? The article writer? The article website? Eric Snowden? The NSA? Putin?

Then, what makes the source noteworthy and worth torpedoing the message by shooting the piano player?

[giftedgirl77]

60. Snowden's first name is Eric?

Hmm I guess we do learn something new everyday.

Don't jump my shit, I'm being sincere I had no idea that is his first name but I can see it. Thanks.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

92. Thanks for catching my error. Snowden's first name is Edward. Sorry. nt

[giftedgirl77]

99. I had no idea...

No apology needed. Guess I should have been paying closer attention

[pinboy3niner]

61. Whoa! There's no need for gratuitous snark.

Similar theses by the same source (obviously the blogger, as the OP author adds no comments) have been posted many times and critiqued by members here repeatedly for their logic fail and other issues. Some here have suggested that anything by this blogger should be considered as coming from an illegitimate source and locked by hosts.

Based on this record, this blogger's screeds are notorious for their obsession with attacking Snowden on spurious grounds with no logic required.

I was agreeing with you on the lack of logic, and alluding to this record.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

91. Thanks for the clarification and background. nt

[treestar]

36. #2 is what shows us he was not a whistleblower

If he was, he would have the guts to face the charges. Had he used the Whistleblower Protection Act, there would have been no charges.

People who jumped on the hero bandwagon right way should have cut their losses as soon as they learned he fled to China. Hanging on to him after that is just stubbornness.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

37. Read up on that WPAct. It turns out to be little use. Recent news article on HP explaining that. nt

[kimbutgar]

28. Snowden is a traitor he gave our national security secrets to Russia

Since the beginning of this snowdon thing I have struggled to try to understand the real story. The more I read of both sides I've come to the conclusion he is a spy and traitor to the us. He is no hero but a coward. Sno den probably gave our state secrets to China also. Little weasel coward.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

48. Can you show any credible evidence for your strong assertions? Other than innuendo (went to Moscow).

[zeemike]

55. No he did not.

He released them to the world in the press.
If he was a spy he would have given them to Russia and we would not have known about it because there is no advantage at all for Russia to know what the world knows.

[Adrahil]

103. Ummmm...

He did not release all the information he had to the press.

That information is with him in Russia.

And yes, there IS an advantage for Russia, since it would make some techniques of intelligence gathering no longer useful. If I can make enemy's system useless, that sure would be useful to me.

[zeemike]

105. And it is with Greenwald and probably other places too

And how does it help them to know how we gather information on our own people?...They don't care about that, they care about how we gather information on them.
The only benefit knowing that is that they can copy it to use on their people...which they may already do.

[Adrahil]

106. That's not the only information he has....

... and you should know it.

If the "domestic spying" were the only thing at issue here, I'd be more sympathetic to that traitorous little scumbag.

[zeemike]

108. And you know this how?

Because those who are doing the succulence told you so?...
If you have some inside info please tell us where you got it, unless that will go against your terms of service.

[blackspade]

76. I seriously doubt that if he gave....

the Russians or Chinese anything, it was information that they didn't already know.

What I'm still surprised about is that no one who is pissed about Snowden is railing on the leaker that told Al Quada that the US was listening in on their calls in real time. Where is the outrage and traitor condemnations about that?
Is that the sound of hypocrickets?
Chirp, chirp.

[kimbutgar]

86. You don't think the world has known the US is spying on them for a long time?

As far back as the 50's the US has had surveillance operations all over the world. Nowadays it's the privatized military industrial complex and their contractors (started under Bush 1)who are providing more improved and invasive intelligence reports to sell the Government for profits.It's offering candy to a baby. Privatize the government and make a massive profit. Halliburton, GE, and so on. Snowden is a good distraction figure to look over there, instead of looking at the bigger picture who benefits and profits? Because with these folks it's all about the benjamins.

[blackspade]

90. Of course I do, that was my point.

The specific methods are likely known to them as well.
You seem to have reversed course from the comment that I responded to.

[Savannahmann]

31. Question, Is the Government spying on us?

The messenger is a dead horse to beat. The question was, is, and will remain, is the Government spying on us all? The answer is yes.

[leftstreet]

35. Obama said No

Obama To Leno: 'There Is No Spying On Americans'

by Greg Henderson
August 07, 201312:44 AM


President Obama defended the US government's surveillance program, telling NBC's Jay Leno on Tuesday that: "There is no spying on Americans."

"We don't have a domestic spying program," Obama said on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. "What we do have is some mechanisms that can track a phone number or an email address that is connected to a terrorist attack. ... That information is useful."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/06/209692380/obama-to-leno-there-is-no-spying-on-americans

[mick063]

38. Another Snowden circle jerk

Don't worry. I have not read a single word in this thread.

Tear down the Utah facility.

[Harmony Blue]

39. Snowden is a hero

when my generation takes over the country we will undo the crimes of the Bush and Obama administration.

[madrchsod]

46. putin`s interview is on rt`s youtube page

[Doctor_J]

49. still slandering snowden to try to prop up the president?

That one is really worn thin. At least find a reputable source.

[woo me with science]

50. Oh, look. Another fountain of bullshit propaganda,

with the predictable, familiar ~20 recs.

[Harmony Blue]

67. Yup +1

the same usual cabal that lives in their isolated bubble DLC world. How sad and pathetic.

[delrem]

51. Well, I LIKE to be spied on, legally or not. And I LIKE war, of aggression or not.

I'm thankful that Snowden blew the whistle on the NSA spying, because that spying makes me feel secure.
And I'm thankful that the US Pres. is going to ramp up the Syrian war, and I'm on the edge of my seat with anticipation for what comes next - because war makes me feel secure.

It's just the way I'm made, I guess, that I LIKE it that gov't reasoning, interpretations, and sources are all totally secret, because (refrain) secrecy makes me feel secure. And it's a feature of US democracy.

But even though I like what Snowden did, because he showed me just how secure I am in the bosom of the NSA, Homeland Security, and the CIA, I despise Snowden for not facing the music - and the fact that he won't face the music proves that he's a traitor and should be put to death. Given a fair trial first, of course, like Manning.

[backscatter712]

52. Unrec for McCarthyist propaganda.

[stonecutter357]

53. K&R

[Whisp]

64. The Snowed Ones are not gonna like this one bit.

so they will start the usual distraction and nervous giggling.

[Swede Atlanta]

65. And your point is exactly what?

I don't care if Snowden had this whole thing staged as a psycho-drama.

The point is he has exposed for the American people and the world the fact that our government is engaging in unconstitutional (sorry Supremes but you got this one wrong), nefarious and seditious behavior. Everyone that works for the NSA should be behind bars.

[blackspade]

70. While this is an interesting addition to the story.....

It doesn't support your or the writer's theory that he sold crap to the Russians.
What it does show (and the author points this out) is that Snowden sought out Russian asylum.

And no, Putin is in no way to be trusted. He was the head of the KGB for fuck sake.
Personally, I think that Snowden made a grave error going to Russia.
I would have taken my chances almost anywhere else.
Now he is a pawn in Putin's chess game with the West and is, I would wager, pretty expendable depending on the circumstances.

But none of this takes away from the information that he has provided Greenwald and by extension the US electorate.
I'm glad that I now have a much better idea about the unconstitutional shenanigans that the Feds have been up to.
It's time to put a stop to it.

As for Snowden, He will be back in US custody in due time, so you can save your vitriol for the Nancy Grace and Faux News flogged trial.

[whatchamacallit]

78. Is that a request? n/t

[99Forever]

79. Good grief.

Wadda clown.

[Warren Stupidity]

80. You blow a whistle using your ass?

Weird.

[Cha]

82. Tweet: Greenwald: "Obama forced Snowden to stay in Russia by revoking his passport!" whine lie whine

Danielle @DCPlod

Greenwald: Obama forced Snowden to stay in Russia by revoking his passport!
Putin: Snowden sought asylum in Russia while in HK. Oops. 8:13 AM - 5 Sep 2013

25 Retweets 8 favorites Reply

http://theobamadiary.com/

[sheshe2]

88. ...

Move to the lifeboats! Emergency!

Green-walled in Snowed-in sinking fast! Credibility?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Zip!

[Cha]

93. Greenwald lied and threw in a major whine.. what's

new?

The whole thing is sickening, she. Big scam to bring down the USA

Smartypants @Smartypants32

This NEVER has been abt privacy => Latest Snowden leak: US is spying on al Qaeda

http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/2013/09/latest-snowden-leak-us-is-spying-on-al.html?spref=tw …4:35 AM - 5 Sep 2013

25 Retweets 5 favorites Reply

Smartypants @Smartypants32

"Latest Snowden leak: US is spying on al Qaeda"

snip//

"But while we've all been talking about Syria, where the intelligence gathering of several countries is helping answer the questions about the Assad regime's use of chemical weapons, the most recent Snowden revelations have clearly gone off the rails.

First of all, we learned that NSA spies on foreign governments (OMG!). But the latest leak published by the Washington Post is really disturbing. Apparently some of the documents Snowden stole show us that the US is spying on al Qaeda"

h/t http://theobamadiary.com/2013/09/05/a-tweet-or-two-from-some-of-the-smart-folk/#more-135784

[sheshe2]

102. Thanks Cha,

smartypants nails it~

I suppose that journalists find it irresistible to pass up the chance to report on how al Qaeda is responding to drone attacks (they're trying to avoid them...another ginormous "DUH?&quot , but don't you really have to wonder when at least one of them is going to stand up and ask the obvious questions about what Snowden's REAL motives were in stealing this stuff? Both his and Greenwald's original explanation that this was all about an individual's right to privacy are nothing short of absurd at this point.

With Snowden now ensconced in Russia and being handled by an alliance between Putin and Wikileaks, there's really a MUCH bigger story here that the media is totally ignoring.

http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/2013/09/latest-snowden-leak-us-is-spying-on-al.html?spref=tw

So this is how Green and Snow are going to bring the USA to it's knees?

[Cha]

109. Precisely, she..

"With Snowden now ensconced in Russia and being handled by an alliance between Putin and Wikileaks, there's really a MUCH bigger story here that the media is totally ignoring."

they'll ignore it until it falls on them like a brick wall.

[krawhitham]

94. K&R

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

96. I believe Snowden a helluva lot more than the NSA.

[Whisp]

97. so you believe Russia is a bastion of human rights like Snowy said?

how very interesting.

[Dustlawyer]

100. These people do not live in the real world! WTF is he supposed to do to blow the whistle

on NSA spying and either get the death penalty, die in prison, or escape to a country that won't turn him over. To do the latter he HAS to talk to them. He has to try and make arrangements for a place to stay. Do we know for sure if he gave it to them, they took it from him, or he still has it? No we don't know ny of these things for sure. Personally, he could have given them the launch codes for all I care, I would rather know what he has revealed already! Our government currently is run by the Rich, for the Rich, and presently, it is involved up to its neck in economic class warfare!