"Spy On Everyone" won't change while Obama is President

[MannyGoldstein]

Last edited Mon Aug 19, 2013, 11:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Based on what I've observed, our President seems to categorize people into two groups:

1. Peers to be treated with great respect, such as bankers and other people of great wealth, and other US politicians save for non-authoritarian Democrats. These are people he can work with to solve problems, there is give and take.

2. The governed, whose opinions are of no consequence. This group includes the press, leaders of countries in the Southern Hemisphere, and the rest of us. Like sometimes-unruly children, we must be taught that he is the daddy, and he will have his way.

Witness Obama's struggle to cut Social Security, which he began a month before taking office, and continues to this day. No matter how hated this effort is by the 99%, no matter how obvious it's become that his proposals will cause some of our aged to go hungry, he continues to cook Social Security's books to claim that it needs "reforms".

Witness the freezing out, even the arrest, of those who wanted a workable solution for health insurance reform.

Witness the war of intimidation against the press.

Witness the widely-hated Trans-Pacific Partnership, a treaty so wretched and destructive that Elizabeth Warren tells us it has to be kept secret or else people would demand that negotiations cease.

Now witness Obama's pledge to "reform" Spy On Everyone, the program he's steadfastly defended. It is a program run for group 1, against group 2. The "reform", by his own admission, will only be around the program's PR, and Clapper will be in charge of it. Is this any different than putting Simpson and Bowles in charge of proposing "reforms" for Social Security? The outcome is decided, and it's not one that most Americans want.

In fact, I can't think of a single issue involving us little people that Obama's ever changed his mind on, ever stopped fighting to get his way on. If I'm wrong here, please let me know.

So I suppose that we can hoot and holler, but unless we pry the Presidents hands off of his security apparatus' levers with a crowbar, ain't nothing changing until 1/20/2017. And if, God help us, a Republican takes the oath of office that day, he or she will have some pretty awful precedents involving suppression of civil liberties and the press that will allow for some incredible mischief.

[GeorgeGist]

1. Apparently even Bo needs a minder ...

[MannyGoldstein]

2. That puppy will never need to worry about where its next meal meal is coming from

Unlike many human children in our country today.

[PowerToThePeople]

3. Truth is sometimes very ugly. n/t

[HooptieWagon]

4. Obama now owns Spy On Everyone...

...and he's going to own TPP. Neither is popular with liberal Dems (non DLCers). The DP is going to lose a lot of support by failing to oppose both policies.

[cascadiance]

7. And will the Keystone oil pipeline become known as the Obama pipeline too!...

I'm tired of only having Koch funded DLC-based choices to vote for in the Democratic primary. We really need to organize soon to work for a candidate not owned by the corporatist Turd Way or other corporatist entities...

[HooptieWagon]

9. I agree.

[Old and In the Way]

5. You've convinced me, Manny!

I'll vote Republican or 3rd Party, cuz we know we can't trust a Democratic President with a minority House and a <fillibuster-proof Senate. Plus SCOTUS has our back!

[Ed Suspicious]

18. We have no choice but to go along to get along. End of story. Eat your gruel and like it cause it

could be somewhat worse.

[MrMickeysMom]

6. Witnessing confirmed...

We are currently in the phase that see how much we can intimidate the press.

It's getting a lot of zombie water carrier responses on DU...

[Hydra]

8. Unfortunate but true

President Obama thinks he's made it into the 1% club. He hasn't. Ask Bill Clinton- The Bushes still shovel crap at him. He moved into the "favored lackey" level, and Obama will be the same. Still, they pay them well to slave away doing their PR and water carrying at that level of initiation.

You know there's something is wrong when a Democratic President is more concerned with his image and legacy than whether people are getting enough food to eat and whether the drones are killing children or not.

[HooptieWagon]

11. Who would have figured a Constitutional Scholar...

would shred the 1st and 4th Amendments? We can no longer count on Third-Way DLC to be Democratic in any way. They serve the 1%, just like the GOP. Time for real change.

[pocoloco]

16. Why in hell he ever thought they would let him

fuck Geronimo's skull is beyond comprehension?

[NealK]

24. Lol!

[msongs]

10. 3 groups - you forgot the ones that are killed w/out trial or conviction..and their wives/kids nt

[Scuba]

12. Thank you Manny, nailed it again.

[MotherPetrie]

13. K&R. Only thing I can think of he changed his mind on was gay marriage. But he let a whole lot of

damage happen before then.

[MannyGoldstein]

40. And that's also 1%er issue

If only 99%ers were gay...

[blkmusclmachine]

14. No "change."

1 Party, 2 Faces.

[L0oniX]

15. Who started this NSA DHS spy shit? ...ok ...now who is expanding it? Hey no need to worry ...

about who speaks republican talking points when the POTUS and republiDems are expanding the stasi state and attacking journalism. COINTELPRO on steriods! Is it still the Democratic party yet?

[forestpath]

17. knr. You nailed it.

[Safetykitten]

19. Manny hits the mark again!

[wildbilln864]

20. I doubt Spy on Everyone" is ever going to stop. n/t

[JayhawkSD]

21. "ain't nothing changing until 1/20/2017" Not even then...

...since Hillary Clinton is no different than Obama with respect to any of the issues you discuss here.

[MannyGoldstein]

22. So she's inevitable?

Again?

"When life looks like easy street, there is danger at your door."
- the Grateful Dead

[JayhawkSD]

34. If she runs (?!!!) sure.

She can raise more money than anyone else in the known universe.

What else is required?

[MannyGoldstein]

36. Just like 2008.

I don't think it's in the bag for her. I sure hope not!

[joshcryer]

23. She actually voted against FISA while Obama voted for it.

[JDPriestly]

30. Bill Clinton did away with Glass-Steagall and signed a bill that eased media conglomerates' pretty

near complete takeover of all media.

I do not want to have Hillary Clinton as president in 2016. No way.

Woops! Forgot to mention NAFTA while I was listing the huge problems that the Clinton administration brought our way.

[joshcryer]

31. Bill's actions speak for Hillary?

I don't want to have Hillary Clinton as president either.

I'm hoping we get a way out.

[JDPriestly]

32. Yes. Hillary will do the 1%s bidding just as Bill did. Only more so. They are a lot richer now.

I recommend seeing the film Park Avenue. I think it has a segment on a professor who experimented with students playing a Monopoly game that was rigged so that one of them would win really big. The rich one always lorded it over the other one.

I recommend seeing that film if you want to know how wealth and politics work.

[joshcryer]

33. I disagree. I think Hillary will do what's politically expedient.

Just like Obama. Anti-spying guy who voted for FISA. He voted for it because McCain was for it and he didn't want to look weak. I know that was the moment Obama went from being a principled guy to a true politician. One who does whatever is necessary to get shit done. He went on to then change his position on offshore drilling. He then went on to change his position on a lot of things. Including allowing the bigot Rick Warren to be his inauguration speaker. So quickly does politics turn you into something you'd never want.

(Yes, I fully believe community organizing Obama was not the same person, I think politics changed him dramatically.)

All that said, I think it's obvious that Hillary would continue and probably increase the spying programs. There would be overtures, she'd point out her FISA (mind you, telecom immunity, which Obama voted for) vote and speech as evidence she wasn't for the spying, but once elected she'd continue Obama-esque policies.

[JayhawkSD]

35. She voted against immunity for the telecom industry

and that was a publicity stunt. She is more of a militarist and government control freak thanh Obama is.

[Jack Rabbit]

25. It's time to grab your torches and pitchforks, people

We've got to clean up the mess that Bush the Frat Boy made and Obama didn't clean up.

[Cheap_Trick]

26. You're fooling yourself if you think things would be

any different under Hillary.

[Coyotl]

37. A good pitch for Hillary to the majority I suspect!

[MannyGoldstein]

41. I wasn't thinking that!

Did you notice my sig?

[JoeyT]

27. The TPP may well be what really puts a hurting on us.

Basically no one favors FTAs but rich neo-cons, rich neo-liberals, and all income levels of libertarians. People that make a killing on them and idiots. Everyone else hates the damned things. Bullshit FTAs was one of the most common complaints I heard about our party when I volunteered in 2008.

[bbgrunt]

28. big K and R

[bbkenn92]

29. Bullsh*t

[MannyGoldstein]

38. Thank you for your thoughtful contribution. nt

[Little Star]

39. There has been a ton of these on DU today.....

k&r for your OP Manny!

[NCTraveler]

43. Welcome to DU.

I see you are here to raise the level of discourse. Most people would never even think to use the *. How crude and simple they are!!!!

[felix_numinous]

42. Witness the demonization of anyone who has the gall

to resist or fight back. Even by our own peers (yet it is understandable they feel safer behind the oppressors rather than in front of them, history repeats itself).

Everything was going along fine until the administration we voted in to stop the Bush police state decided to turn on us.

I WANT this government to stand up against the MIC takeover, but if it is unable to do so then they should not surprised that we just don't lie down and assume the position and smile.

[MannyGoldstein]

46. They are very, very, very angry

Forcing down the plane of a democratically-elected leader is a pretty serious step.

[OnionPatch]

44. That's the way I see it too.

Unfortunately. We thought we were getting "change". What we're getting is a slightly kinder and gentler screwing.

[FiveGoodMen]

45. What we got was Dubya with an interface upgrade.

[rhett o rick]

47. I think you are being optimistic if you think that we will get

change in 2016. The Powers to Be will see to it that our choices will be between a wacko and a corporate controlled Democrat. The chances that we can elect a progressive that will have the power to change out the firmly entrenched intelligence tyrants are slim and none. THe Powers to Be will see that Ms. Clinton is the Democratic choice and she will continue Obama's pro-corporation agenda.

[LiberalLovinLug]

48. Great OP

thanks Manny.

k & r