The Surveillance Speech: A Low Point in Barack Obama's Presidency - TheAtlantic

[WillyT]

The Surveillance Speech: A Low Point in Barack Obama's Presidency
His tone on Friday was inappropriately dismissive, while the substance was misleading at best and mendacious at worst.
CONOR FRIEDERSDORF - The Atlantic
AUG 12 2013, 4:41 AM ET

<snip>

Jon Stewart once reacted to a Barack Obama speech by marveling that "at 11 o'clock on a Tuesday, a prominent politician spoke to Americans about race as though they were adults."

On Friday, President Obama spoke to us about surveillance as though we were precocious children. He proceeded as if widespread objections to his policies can be dispatched like a parent answers an eight-year-old who has formally protested her bedtime. He is so proud that we've matured enough to take an interest in our civil liberties! Why, he used to think just like us when he was younger, and promises to consider our arguments. But some decisions just have to be made by the grownups. Do we know how much he loves us? Can we even imagine how awful he would feel if anything bad ever happened while it was still his job to ensure our safety?

By observing Obama's condescension, I don't mean to suggest tone was the most objectionable part of the speech. The disinformation should bother the American people most. The weasel words. The impossible-to-believe protestations. The factually inaccurate assertions.

They're all there.

* * *

The passage:

... I called for a review of our surveillance programs. Unfortunately, rather than an orderly and lawful process to debate these issues and come up with appropriate reforms, repeated leaks of classified information have initiated the debate in a very passionate but not always fully informed way.

But Obama has always had it within his power to initiate a fully informed debate. The state secrets that he guards, rightly or wrongly, are the biggest obstacle to a fully informed debate. Love the leaks or hate them, they've indisputably made Americans, including some members of Congress, much better informed than they were before about NSA surveillance, not less informed. And as any student of the civil-rights era ought to know, debate need not be "orderly" to be salutary.

The passage:

I'm also mindful of how these issues are viewed overseas because American leadership around the world depends upon the example of American democracy and American openness, because what makes us different from other countries is not simply our ability to secure our nation.

It's the way we do it, with open debate and democratic process.

But his surveillance politics and policy, whatever one thinks of it, has never been characterized by open debate. There are secret sessions conducted by Congressional committees -- and secret hearings conducted by FISA court judges -- where hugely consequential policy decisions are made. If the real world depends on the example of American openness, we are failing the world. The example we're setting is that it's okay for governments to secretly intercept the private communications data of all citizens. How would that work out in most countries? The official secrecy surrounding the NSA has already corroded U.S. democracy in real ways.

The passage:

I will work with Congress to pursue appropriate reforms to Section 215 of the Patriot Act...

<snip>

Much More: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/08/the-surveillance-speech-a-low-point-in-barack-obamas-presidency/278565/

[MotherPetrie]

1. K&R

[ProSense]

2. "By observing Obama's condescension"

He's uppity!!!

Real analysis:

EFF analysis of NSA announcements: Devil's in the details.
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10023439446

Statements:

Wyden Statement on President Obama’s Proposed Reforms to the FISC and PATRIOT ACT
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023436039

Blumenthal Applauds President Obama’s Support For Special Advocate In FISA Courts
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023435963

[cherokeeprogressive]

4. Yeah I don't think condescending is the same thing as "uppity".

[David Krout]

6. Shh. Prosense knows the author well enough to imply he is racist

Trust her.

[ProSense]

9. No, the author isn't "racist" and I implied no such thing.

I guess I should have used the word "elitist" to avoid people putting words in my mouth.

Not that using any word would prevent that. LOL!

[David Krout]

11. So there was no need to say that condescending=uppity?

What did you seek to achieve by substituting uppity for condescending?

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. Caught.

[ProSense]

15. Please, spare me. There is only one thing

driving these dismissals of the President's speech. Robinson:

Snowden’s disclosures do look increasingly like whistle-blowing, by the way, rather than espionage or treason. If administration officials really welcome the discussion we are now having, shouldn’t they thank Snowden rather than label him an enemy of the state?

Snowden fans can keep wishing.

President Obama: Mr. Snowden has been charged with three felonies.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023436454

[Jack Rabbit]

25. Mr. Snowden has been charged with three felonies

Exscuse me, but . . .



Socrates was charged with corrupting the youth and introducing his own gods to replace the established ones. Jesus was charged with blasphemy. Both were put to death for these "crimes."

Mr. Snowden may be technically guilty of treason or espionage. Some think he should get the Nobel Peace Prize. I don't think he needs a Noble Prize. America is having the discussion he wanted it to have; that might be reward enough.

President Obama also says this discussion is worth having and that he always wanted America to have it. Pardon me, Mr. President, but I don't believe that last part. You have been too much a party to keeping this matter secret for me to believe that you really wanted to have this discussion.

[ProSense]

34. You can yawn, but that's the reality.

People can continue declaring Snowden a "hero," deserving of thanks, but those charges are still the reality.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

36. Here's another reality for ya...

he's free, and his stated mission is being carried on all across the world, online and off... people are discussing the privacy pirates.

score

[kelliekat44]

46. His REAL mission is being carrie out here on DU. nt

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

47. That's right

We're all talking about the Privacy Pirates, online and in public

[Jack Rabbit]

42. Yes, the hemlock that Socrates drank was real enough, too.

You are missing the point: this discussion is neither about Snowden or Obama. It is about that government is spying on all of us and unless we're all terrorists, it doesn't have a good reason to do so.

[muriel_volestrangler]

56. Nelson Mandela was charged with multiple felonies too, and convicted

and Cheney voted against calling for his release, 24 years later:

President Clinton took aim Sunday at Republican vice presidential hopeful Dick Cheney, saying a controversial 1986 vote Cheney cast in the House of Representatives on former South African President Nelson Mandela -- while Mandela was still imprisoned in South Africa -- "takes your breath away."

The vote was on a House resolution calling for the release of Mandela from prison and for recognition of the African National Congress, which Mandela headed. Cheney voted against the resolution.

"Now all the big publicity is about in the last few days (is) an amazing vote cast by their nominee for vice president when he was in Congress against letting Nelson Mandela out of jail," Clinton said. "That takes your breath away."

Cheney defended the vote in an appearance on CNN's "Late Edition" earlier Sunday, saying the ANC "at the time was viewed as a terrorist organization and had a number of interests that were fundamentally inimical to the U.S." He said 180 House members voted against the non-binding resolution.

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/07/30/clinton.cheney/

But anything that is fundamentally inimical to the U.S. must be stopped, I guess?

[delrem]

71. Mandela off U.S. terrorism watch list -Wed July 2, 2008

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former South African President Nelson Mandela is to be removed from a U.S. terrorism watch list under a bill President Bush signed Tuesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/07/01/mandela.watch/

2008? Why didn't Pres. Clinton do something earlier?
(sorry, this is a diversion from the current topic....)

[NuclearDem]

18. Buuuuuussssssted.

[Union Scribe]

27. Oh, you don't like people putting words in your mouth?

Maybe you should stop doing it with people who write articles you don't like, then.

[cali]

53. bullpucky. that is precisely what you did by insisting that the author

was calling a black man "uppity".

That you'd deny that is not only transparent, it's ludicrous.

[bvar22]

61. Yes. You DID.

The best thing you can do at this point is to simple delete your ill considered post where you DID imply racism.

That post REEKS of frantic desperation and moral bankruptcy.

[WillyT]

7. Me Neither...

Eugene Robinson had a similar take:

President Obama’s message about the government’s massive electronic surveillance programs came through loud and clear: Get over it.

The president used more soothing words in his pre-vacation news conference Friday, but that was the gist. With perhaps the application of a fig leaf here and a sheen of legalistic mumbo jumbo there, the snooping will continue.

Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-what-nsa-reforms/2013/08/12/62e04e0c-037f-11e3-9259-e2aafe5a5f84_story.html

[mindwalker_i]

8. Yeah, if you disagree with Obama

You're a racist, calling him "uppity."

Don't like being spied on? It's just because you hate Obama

Want tougher enforcement of laws against bank than Obama is giving? You're just a hater.

Have an impression that something Obama isn't doing right? An army of carefully chosen blue links is waiting to reeducate you.

[nashville_brook]

12. +1

[pscot]

14. Not Uppity; Arrogant

He seems to be acutely aware of his own superiority. I wonder if it ever enters his head that he might be wrong. Probably not. The Superior Man is not much given to self doubt.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

28. Yup, more RACIST busted

[burnodo]

44. Yes, you implied racism

for you to deny that means you're completely over the edge

[cali]

52. spot on. that's precisely what's going on.

[cali]

51. yes, yes. it just has to be racism. Going to accuse Eugene Robinson of being

a racist too?

It would hardly be a surprise if you did.

[whatchamacallit]

60. Shameless and foul

Congratulations.

[bvar22]

64. AND

the Melt Down continues.

I know I should avert my eyes,
but like a train wreck, I have to keep watching.

[cantbeserious]

3. Kick And Recommend

eom

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

5. Must be another Rand Paul Moon Bat

who never loved Obama, nor got his pony.

Or, of course... a RACIST!

[jazzimov]

10. WHOUA!

So, what do WE do.

WE have to get active, WE have to review the NSA and CIA actions to make sure they address all our needs.

WE have to do something.

WE are the ones we have been looking for.

So, I don't want to hear anymore whining or crying until YOU have done something.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

19. You're cheershaming up the wrong tree

People are going to say what they want to say, just the same as you're going to hear what you want to hear, your attempts to shift responsibility to the left notwithstanding.

[BrotherIvan]

63. Your headline made me spit my coffee

"Cheershaming up the wrong tree" = priceless

[Union Scribe]

29. "WE have to review the NSA and CIA actions"

WE have been as far as WE can but THEY don't want us to and THEY want people to go to jail who tell us what THEY've been up to.

[Maedhros]

57. Raising awareness is doing something.

People have to realize there is a problem before they can start fixing it.

[Douglas Carpenter]

16. knr

[Autumn]

17. It was a very low point.

Last edited Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:58 PM - Edit history (1)

Recommended .

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Did speech did NOT go well

the chattering classes are not amused.

[Luminous Animal]

21. Kevin Drum: On Friday, the President Treated Us Like Five-Year-Olds

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/08/obama-nsa-surveillance-speech

The fact that Obama doesn't consider Snowden a patriot comes as no surprise. Presidents don't generally approve of people who release large volumes of national secrets. But this was really too much:

Back in May...I called for a review of our surveillance programs....My preference — and I think the American people’s preference — would have been for a lawful, orderly examination of these laws,

....

Please. Only a five-year-old would read that May speech and believe that Obama had any intention of either releasing significant information about our surveillance state or proposing any kind of serious reforms. That speech was mostly about drones—because, tellingly, Obama had been forced into it by recent news stories. In a 7,000-word speech, he devoted approximately three sentences to surveillance. It was little more than an afterthought, and his only concrete proposal, after four years in office, was a laughably buck-passing decision to set up a commission and then hope everyone would forget about the whole thing. Roger McShane called Obama's Friday press conference "surreal, in a Kafkaesque sort of way," but it was worse than that. It was a president treating us all like idiots. Does anyone seriously believe that even the very moderate reforms Obama has proposed so far would have seen the light of day if he hadn't been forced into it?

[snappyturtle]

54. Here's his 'call from back in May' NDU speech 05/23/2013

Thwarting homegrown plots presents particular challenges in part because of our proud commitment to civil liberties for all who call America home. That’s why, in the years to come, we will have to keep working hard to strike the appropriate balance between our need for security and preserving those freedoms that make us who we are. That means reviewing the authorities of law enforcement, so we can intercept new types of communication, but also build in privacy protections to prevent abuse.

That means that — even after Boston — we do not deport someone or throw somebody in prison in the absence of evidence. That means putting careful constraints on the tools the government uses to protect sensitive information, such as the state secrets doctrine. And that means finally having a strong Privacy and Civil Liberties Board to review those issues where our counterterrorism efforts and our values may come into tension.

Fairly, oh heck, it's just plain vague at best...to me anyway.

[frylock]

22. The Very Sensible People who live in the Reality-Based Real World just loved it..

they're positively giddy over Obama's white papers.

[awoke_in_2003]

41. They are pragmatic. nt

[zeemike]

23. The last paragraph in that article was kind of funny

But also probably has some truth to it.

*Alas, Obama-as-daddy-figure isn't even wise and measured with his heavy-handedness, like Cliff Huxtable. Instead, America is stuck with one of those control-freak dads. It's as if, instead of the girl in the No Doubt song not being allowed to drive late at night, she can cruise as needed, but with a location tracker. Plus her dad hacking into the email of every boy in her social circle -- not that he has time to read most of their private communications, but who knows what might one day come in handy? Did I mention she's now 31, and tried to get a restraining order, only to have a judge throw out the case because she couldn't prove dad was still listening?

I was thinking back to when his girls wanted a puppy...and as it turned out he made the choice for them, and it was not a puppy but a dog he wanted them to have...and it was apearent that the younger girl did not like the dog at all...
It struck me as odd then, but now not so much.
Funny how little things like that sometimes stick out.

[DeSwiss]

39. ....

[forestpath]

24. K&R. What a perfect description.

[limpyhobbler]

26. I'm starting to think Obama just reads what they put in front of him.

Like a sales person, or a news anchor. Or kinda like W.

[truebluegreen]

66. ...or a corporate spokesmodel....

[markiv]

30. tomorrows Two Minutes Hate: The Atlantic

they are the enemy now

[Demo_Chris]

33. Everyone is the enemy now. nt

[Enthusiast]

45. It is growing crowded under de bus.

[Cali_Democrat]

31. Thanks for the link, willy.....but I must say

It sucked.

[Demo_Chris]

32. Great read, K&R nt

[mick063]

35. I think of the wall of blue links as fingers for the dike.

They are not keeping up with the holes.


Yes, I read many of them. That is until I got the feeling they were serving the purpose of distracting me from the task at hand.

[A Simple Game]

49. There also seems to be far less amateurs to help the pro lately. n/t

[MjolnirTime]

37. boohoohoo

I predict jack shit comes from your poutrage.

[Maedhros]

58. As always, your insighful comments

enlighten us to the sharpness of your vast intellect.

[DeSwiss]

38. Arglebargle = Bullshit

- The following is offered as a public service visual-aid for ''Reality-Impaired'' Americans:



K&R

[Common Sense Party]

40. Yeah, this piece pretty much kicked the President's ass.

It's a kicking he deserves on this issue.

It was a horrible, condescending speech.

[pansypoo53219]

43. says the media that didn't do its job in 2006.

[xchrom]

48. du rec.

[WillyT]

50. Kick !!!

[Rex]

55. Considering he was dead set against any of this Security State in 2005

ya makes ya wonder what he knows now as POTUS Obama and not Senator Obama?

[Maedhros]

59. That he can make a lot of money from "speaking fees" after he leaves office

if he fluffs the Military-Industrial-Surveillance Complex while still in office?

[bvar22]

62. This sums up my feeling too after watching the "historic" speech.

I couldn't understand the Mission Accomplished parades and Congratulatory Pats-on-the-Back on DU over the weekend.

I thought it was one of the worst speeches ever delivered by a Master at making Speeches.

The tone & substance WAS:

[font size=3]"When WE want YOU to KNOW something,
we will TELL you."[/font]


...and to appoint LYIN Gen Clapper to head up the new "Advisory Group"?
Insult to Injury.

THAT had to have them laughing at the White House and NSA.

Remember back before the Re-Election in 2012,
when the acolytes were telling us we would get to see the REAL Obama after the re-election?
Well, looks like "they" were right about that.



You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS,[/font]
not by their promises or excuses.

[Doctor_J]

65. Seems to be a pattern

Great technique - zero substance. Candidate Obama fooled me into believing he was the real deal. President Obama is an empty suit, just eloquently reciting vacuous words to make the worshipers swoon, while meaning absolutely none of it. And either unable or unwilling to beat the Repukes at anything resembling a Dem agenda. Deeply discouraging

[Egalitarian Thug]

67. 100th rec. n/t

[JoePhilly]

68. The Atlantic didn't like the speech ...

I'm SHOCKED, SHOCKED I tell you.

In other news, water is wet.

[WillyT]

69. Neither Did People Normally Supportive Of The President...

Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-what-nsa-reforms/2013/08/12/62e04e0c-037f-11e3-9259-e2aafe5a5f84_story.html

[burnodo]

70. and Van Jones

that's a big one