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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsObama: ‘I Don’t Think Mr. Snowden Was A Patriot’
President Barack Obama said Friday that he didn't believe Edward Snowden, who leaked classified information about National Security Agency data collection programs to several news publications, was a "patriot."
The president said in a press conference that he had signed executive orders offering whistleblower protection to the intelligence community, so there there were "other avenues" available to someone like Snowden "whose conscience was stirred and thought they needed to question government actions."
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/obama-i-dont-think-mr-snowden-was-patriot
Wait Wut
(8,492 posts)Then again, today's 'patriot' isn't what I was raised to believe was a patriot.
Tikki
(14,557 posts)Tikki
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)to take a huge personal risk - a risk of being waterboarded, stuck in solitary confinement for months - to let the people here know that their government is breaking the law, specifically the constitution. The people defending the government for breaking the law/constitution are NOT patriotic. By that, I mean that they are not helping the country.
leftstreet
(36,108 posts)HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)One of the things about the neocons is that they thought it was funny how they could hide terrible things like moving to the dark side right out in the open.
The meaning behind U.S.A. P.A.T.R.I.O.T. act of 2001 is just such a thing, and the neocons were basically correct, few people in the US really care to look closely at anything and readily accept a deception.
U.S.A. P.A.T.R.I.O.T. stands for Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism.
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)So there is some bipartisanship there.
I think only one brave soul said no the first time around.
Unfortunately
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)Which mostly goes to suggest that the pattern of giving superficial attention to important documents reaches into the Congress.
Of course such dereliction of duty is just what any cabal of evil doers depend upon when they implement shock doctrine to destroy the rule of law.
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)and feigning ignorance at the time may be true to some extent, however, that doesn't fly today.
Robbins
(5,066 posts)If he was a patriot why not face up to what he did,force a public trial,and accept responabilty.Instead he runs off to russia responable for more abuses than the NSA scandal.Being upset over program and running to russia undercuts any credibilty snowden has.I just
can't believe all the support he has on here.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)Bradley Manning
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)the information would be discussed globally. If he was looking to effect change, he has done so in a brilliant manner.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)quite the chess player that Mr. I-don't-want-to-live-in-a-country-that-spies-on-its-citizens-so-I'm-defecting-to-Russia.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)for asylum? Our government put pressure on them not to accept him. Russia was where he was, and is seemingly where he will stay. Not because of HIS desires, however.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)If he had simply released the FISA court stuff (which wasn't new, but did draw important attention and renewed efforts to amend/repeal the PATRIOT ACT) I would have more sympathy for him, as would a lot of other Americans. If he had stayed here and faced the music he would have gotten ten years at most, and had a pretty good chance at acquittal or a hung jury.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)I don't believe you actually would have more "sympathy" for him. How much "sympathy" do you have for Bradley Manning?
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)I think he actually revealed some crimes. However, I think Manning's release of unrelated documents makes him criminally liable. 10 years minus time served is about right for Manning. Snowden needs the book thrown at him for his china/Russia adventure.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Or your respect? I mean, let's be honest-- you'd despise the guy even if he'd stayed in the states and been arrested. How many "sympathetic" things did you say about Bradley Manning?
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)hope he will be in prison soon.
traitor that he is.
Marr
(20,317 posts)I don't get it personally, but whatever floats your prison barge.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)In their time, but given time, the judgements are often reveresed.
Ever ask yourself that question of a historical figure who was horribly mistreated and pilloried in their time, how could people back them have been so narrow minded, or worse...
And then take it a step forward, and wonder how you would have acted?
Now is one of those times, and would give you a good indication of how you would have acted then based on your actions today.
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)So I was glad to hear he got multiple offers, especially in that it will inspire others that they won't have to resign themselves to torture, or worse in American prisons.
In fact, that is actually the best outcome of all thus far.
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)And that you don't even get it, PRICELESS
treestar
(82,383 posts)1. Snowy is a civilian
2. Snowy can avoid suicide threats
And still no excuse for not using the whistleblower protections.
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)It's easy for you to casually suggest the man spend the rest of his life in a small cage. Perhaps he'd like to, oh I don't know... see the sun occasionally?
If a person discovers government wrongdoing, why in the hell would you expect them to
a. go through the government appointed cover-up channels and
b. give that government an easy opportunity to lock them up for the rest of their life?
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)Rep today, unfortunately
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)In Russia, a hotbed of oppression and suppression of free speech.
That alone discredits any claim to his 'cause'.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Would you have preferred "pranced away?" How about "skee-daddled?" Or "skulked off?"
I remember "cut and run" being used on TV shows like Dragnet and Bonanza.
The GOP didn't invent the term.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)It's an indirect insinuation, and there was no need for it.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Have a good one!
Amonester
(11,541 posts)Noticed it here too.
Weak attempt, failed, then ran away.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)This place has gone crazy lately. I expect someone on the board next to post. "These colors don't run" USA USA
Have to look twice to make sure I am at the right place anymore.
Amonester
(11,541 posts)I agree the level of hair-on-fire hyperbole is quite stunningly high.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Remember when she was a freshman, and the GOP caucus put her up to insinuating that John Murtha was a coward with her "cowards don't cut and run" bullshit? Yeah, she's really someone to emulate, isn't she?
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)to protect from having your visceral reactions?
Are there other triggers people should be aware of when posting?
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)The phrase gives me the creeps.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)That term's been around for years.
Are you down to trying to accuse people of not being 'real' Democrats?
Cha
(297,220 posts)doesn't mind Putin's Russia.. so I think the term is apt.
"These nations, including Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador have my gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations."
http://wikileaks.org/Statement-by-Edward-Snowden-to.html
.
bowens43
(16,064 posts)Obama's opinion on this issue is irrelevant.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)irrelevant.
ok.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)He has as much right to an opinion as any other citizen on the subject, perhaps even more so since he is the one who must try to get this mash up that Congress has cobbled together and abandoned to work. Funny how people like to pretend that Congress doesn't exist or isn't relevant. That nothing they do or don't do is germane to any issue at hand.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Knee jerking appears to be epidemic.
Logical
(22,457 posts)"She physically cannot stop. It is like she cannot say "I might of been wrong" "
...I'm not "wrong." Snowden fled to Russia. Just because he's your hero doesn't mean he's everyone's.
Aug 8, 2013
News reports about my interview with The Guardian are misleading, and they do not reflect my complete opinion. Let me be clear. I do not agree with what Mr. Snowden did. He has damaged American international relations and compromised our national security. He leaked classified information and may have jeopardized human lives. That must be condemned.
I never praised Mr. Snowden or said his actions rise to those of Mohandas Gandhi or other civil rights leaders. In fact, The Guardian itself agreed to retract the word praise from its headline.
At the end of an interview about the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington, I was asked what I thought about Mr. Snowdens actions. I said he has a right as an individual to act according to the dictates of his conscience, but he must be prepared to pay the price for taking that action. In the movement, we were arrested, we went to jail, we were prepared to pay the price, even lose our lives if necessary. I cannot say and I did not say that what Mr. Snowden did is right. Others will be the judge of that.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023427908
to you maybe. Your opinion is pretty irrelevant in the scheme of things.
dkf
(37,305 posts)That's the new regime we are expected to bow down to.
Forget the constitution. This is no longer relevant to the law of the land of secret laws and secret courts and secret evidence.
msongs
(67,405 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 10, 2013, 12:55 AM - Edit history (1)
Edward Snowden is a modern day Paul Revere with a thumb drive full of news that Tyranny is coming!
Edward Snowden's Dad Calls Him 'Modern Day Paul Revere'
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/edward-snowdens-dad-calls-modern-day-paul-revere/story?id=19554337
Hmmm... who knew how influential a DU meme could be
millennialmax
(331 posts)usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Poster likes to post this in almost every thread.
Don't ruin it for him!!!!
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)so palinesque
sheshe2
(83,759 posts)Every time I see him post that I feel like ing~
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)Thats what has the totalitarian pirates shitt'n all over themselves.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)The KGB (or whatever they are going by these days) is undoubtedly using more carrot than stick, for now.
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)PATRIOTS
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)There is no excuse for not using the whistleblower protections. Had he tried and not succeeded, then he might have a case.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Interested in following protocol in revealing wrong doing then he could be considered a patriot, as it stands he is a thief and spy, he has been charged with espionage along with other charges. Do I think his puppet masters wants him to return to the USA, more than likely not, Snowden would probably reveal the puppet masters.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)And I am NOT just talking about the President. There seems to be gobs of Official America that skirt the oaths they have sworn to.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)The President is the one who said it.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Progressive dog
(6,904 posts)Patriots don't run from their country.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Which shows how different our concepts of "patriot" are.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)don't you?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)There may be an innocent explanation, but I don't know what that would be. Poppy should tell what he knows in regards to that day -- a memory which brought back a chuckle to him at the funeral for Gerald Ford.
Poppy Bush brought up JFK Assassination and ''Conspiracy Theorists'' at Ford Funeral
And people wonder why Corporate McPravda barely grumbled when the same guy, years later, pardoned Caspar Weinberger and the rest of his Iran-Contra traitor co-conspirators.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)you consider this to be proof? and the documents you posted show him turning someone in for threatening Kennedy.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)No theory. Just facts:
TO: SAC, HOUSTON DATE: 11-22-63
FROM: SA GRAHAM W. KITCHEL
SUBJECT: UNKNOWN SUBJECT;
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT
JOHN F. KENNEDY
At 1:45 p.m. Mr. GEORGE H. W. BUSH, President of the Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company, Houston, Texas, residence 5525 Briar, Houston, telephonically furnished the following information to writer by long distance telephone call from Tyler, Texas.
BUSH stated that he wanted to be kept confidential but wanted to furnish hearsay that he recalled hearing in recent weeks, the day and source unknown. He stated that one JAMES PARROTT has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston.
BUSH stated that PARROTT is possibly a student at the University of Houston and is active in political matters in this area. He stated that he felt Mrs. FAWLEY, telephone number SU 2-5239, or ARLINE SMITH, telephone number JA 9-9194 of the Harris County Republican Party Headquarters would be able to furnish additional information regarding the identity of PARROTT.
BUSH stated that he was proceeding to Dallas, Texas, would remain in the Sheraton-Dallas Hotel and return to his residence on 11-23-63. His office telephone number is CA 2-0395.
# # #
This is another FBI memo, dated the following week, in which a "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency" was briefed in regards to the feelings of the pro- and anti-Castro Cuban communities in Miami.
Date: November 29, 1963
To: Director
Bureau of Intelligence and Research
Department of State
From: John Edgar Hoover, Director
Subject: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
NOVEMBER 22, 1963
Our Miami, Florida, Office on November 23, 1963, advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U. S. policy, which is not true.
Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President's policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President's death represents a great loss not only to the U. S. but to all of Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba.
An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that these individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination.
The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963, by Mr. W. T. Forsyth of this Bureau.
# # #
I don't know what role, if any, George H.W. Bush played in the assassination of President Kennedy. I do know Poppy Bush has never explained these memos. He's never explained why he didn't warn the Secret Service or the FBI BEFORE THE ASSASSINATION. He's never even admitted where he was the day JFK was killed. Seeing how he would go on to become President, as would his dim son, I believe it's vitally important that we learn the Truth.
Do you have any ideas about these documents from the National Archives, arely staircase? What are your thoughts, if any?
Oh, and BTW: Poppy said to the New York Times of April 14, 1990: ''Lets forgive the NAZI war criminals.'' Guy's into moving on, Big Time.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)And you are right, it was afterword. But it would seem like he was sharing info that he thought might be relevant to the case, hardly the act of a man in on a conspiracy to frame Oswald. I think the reason Poppy has been silent about his activities at that point in his career is that he was indeed already working for US intel. at that point. I think he probably was involved in the Bay of Pigs somehow.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Oswald's white Russian friend and apparent CIA minder was an associate of George HW Bush. After deMohrenschildt's death by shotgun in the mouth, investigators from the House Select Committee on Assassination found an address book containing an entry for "Bush, George H. W. (Poppy), 1412 W. Ohio also Zapata Petroleum, Midland" as well as kids' names and birthdays. It really is a small world.
"The Last Investigation" (New York: Thunder's Mouth Press, 1993), p. 358n, by Gaeton Fonzi.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)like I said, I do think he (Poppy) was CIA way back. But I think it is a huge leap to go from that to Kennedy assassination conspiracy. BTW - I am sorry if I have been rude to you in the past. I think your theories are a little out there but you have always been civil and I not so much. I will try to keep my differing opinions polite.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Footage from Love Field on 22 November 1963, found, IIRC, in a dumpster outside ABC Dallas in the late 90's:
Vince Palamara: An important discovery was made by this correspondent during review of video of the Dallas trip shot by the ABC television affiliate in that city. During the start of the fatal motorcade at Love Field, Secret Service agent Don Lawton begins to jog alongside the presidential limousine. He is immediately called back by his shift leader and commander of the follow-up car detail, Emory P. Roberts.
Video: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/171830/secret_service_jfk /
Afterward, in William Manchester's book, Death of a President, we see the "official story" of what was supposed to have happened to all the Secret Service agents:
"Kennedy grew weary of seeing bodyguards roosting behind him every time he turned around, and in Tampa on November 18 (1963), just four days before his death, he dryly asked Agent Floyd Boring to 'keep those Ivy League charlatans off the back of the car.' Boring wasn't offended. There had been no animosity in the remark." (1988 Harper & Row/Perennial Library edition, pp. 37-38)
The thing is PRESIDENT KENNEDY NEVER SAID THAT.
Not until 35 years later do we learn the truth, though, when the great investigator Vincent Palamara asked the Secret Service agents who were there what happened in 1963:
Agents Go On Record
PS: Thank you for the kind reply, arely staircase. Due to the subject matters when writing about the crimes of the national security state, I very much appreciate it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)He doesn't approve of Snowden's actions, either.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)you have proved the poster that you are responding to is correct.
MADem
(135,425 posts)One who had something very specific to say about Snowden's actions, fwiw.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)that is what a patriot looks like.
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)Another patriot
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)He's the one who broke the law of the land by passing secret gov information, much more sensitive than what snowden revealed, troop movements, to we the people.
It's a very popular story in America, you should read up on it, I think you will like it.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)Listen my children and you shall hear
Of the midnight ride of Paul Revere,
On the eighteenth of April, in Seventy-five;
Hardly a man is now alive
Who remembers that famous day and year.
Try google, you'll get a lot of info on him.
Good luck, and enjoy.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Kinda like Al-Qaeda is coming. The NSA warns of such tyranny. Snowden gave up our troop movements.
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)You really gotta read up more on your history.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)Cha
(297,220 posts)Berkshire_Boy 5 hours ago 9 upvotes ?+
Cue Glenn Greenwald ranting about how Snowden would have been water-boarded or some such thing if he had not run for his life after spilling the beans. POTUS has it right on this one.
Except snowden ran before he spilled. The Iceland gig didn't work out for him so now he's Putin's Puppet but no worries..
"These nations, including Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador have my gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations."
http://wikileaks.org/Statement-by-Edward-Snowden-to.html
We're talkin' "the first" here!1!1
Amonester
(11,541 posts)I guess Snowden doesn't know a peep about how great human rights GLBT and other groups have in Russia.
No courage, and ignoramus to boot.
Cha
(297,220 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Apples to oranges I guess.
rug
(82,333 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid