A Zimmerman lie that the prosecution failed to expand on.

[madaboutharry]

On Saturday night, after the verdict, attorney Lisa Bloom said on MSNBC that Trayvon's body was laying on the ground approximately 20 feet from the walkway. Zimmerman claimed that he was getting his head smashed on the sidewalk and that he "shimmied" over onto the grass while Trayvon was on top of him. How did Trayvon's body get over that far?


Zimmerman must have fabricated that his head was getting banged on the sidewalk.

[ceonupe]

1. No once

The state got ontop of the dummy and started saying the sidewalk bashes weren't that bad it's impossible for the state to claim there was no concrete.

[KurtNYC]

2. Zimmerman also asked someone to help him restrain Trayvon's dead body

Shoots him in the heart point blank and then asks for help restraining him. Perhaps he has seen too many zombie movies.

They lost this trial during jury selection IMHO.

[bushisanidiot]

3. I think whoever was there with him was the one to punch him in the nose

The injures on top of zs head couldnt have come from concrete because if where they were.
If zs story was true, z would have massive brain injury, skull fracture, on bruises to the base of his head. There were only two pinprick cuts, just deep enough to bleed. One was near his scalp, too high to fit zs scenario.

There is a lot of missed evidence/points that could have been driven home by the prosecution.
I think the whole thing was staged. The prosecution missed too much to be believable.

No dna from z on ts body.

No injuries on ts hands indicating he was in a fight.

No ground in grass stains on ts pants that would be consistent with t standing on knees and rolling around on grass/struggling. Stains would have been obvious and the kind you cant wash out.

T straddling z meant z could not have gotten to his gun that was holstered behind his back.

T could not have seen zs holster and gun behind zs back, so couldnt have reached for it.

T couldnt have gotten to zs gun that was holstered behind zs back while straddling z.

Recorded 911 call shows screaming stopped immediately after gunshot, shooter had no reason to stop screaming if he needed help restraining t.

When did zs helper arrive?

How long was helper there before police arrived?

Did helper have any relationship with z?

How exactly did the helper assist z with restraining the dead child?

Did the helper have his hands inspected for injuries?

Did the helper get searched and taken in for questioning since he interfered with the crime scene and possibly tampered with evidence?

[naaman fletcher]

4. Huh?

Why is it so hard to accept that Trayvon and Zimmerman got into a fight?

This is why everyone here is so stunned by the verdict. There has been a complete denial by people to accept the very basic facts of the case.

Trayvon and Zimmerman were in a fight, during which Zimmerman sustained certain injuries.

Even the prosecution accepts that basic fact.

Why people here deny that is beyond me.

[brush]

9. Pls check out this story in you still believe zimmerman

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023254619

This link is about a guy who got punched for calling someone a nigger in NYC and fell and hit his head on concrete ONCE, not 20-30 time like that liar claimed, and got knock the fuck out, like zimmerman would have if his story were true.

Go to that story and read it. Report back if you still think zimmerman's account of getting his head bashed 20-30 time on concrete is nothing but made up hogwash to cover up his killing of an unarmed boy.

[naaman fletcher]

10. What?

I never said I believed Zimmerman has his head bashed 20-30 times on concrete.

The fact is though that Zimmerman and TM were in a fight. Three different witnesses testified to that.

Why is that so hard to accept?

[brush]

12. I don't think it was much of a fight is what I'm saying

zimmerman greatly exaggerated what happened. On the basis of that link I posted you'd have to agree with that. I think he tried to physically restraint Martin, met some resistance and wrestled Martin to the ground, getting the back of his head scratched in the process, then shot him.

I don't believe for a minute zimmerman's 20-30 head bashes or 35-40 punched to the face or the smothering of his mouth and nose by Trayvon story.

Any fight was brief, the physically stronger and heavier zimmerman with the MMA training prevailed and shot the screaming kid.

The all white, and I have to conclude, racist jury believed zimmerman, stupidly I might add. I've been posting for months that anyone with any sense should know that you don't just get up and walk away from having your head bashed 20-30 time on concrete. You've going to be knocked out, at the very least heavily concussed.

That was a total, cover-his-lying-ass fabrication.

[naaman fletcher]

13. I agree he lied,

But they still got into a fight of some sort. Even if Zim was 100% the aggressor it would only take a few seconds of TM's arm's flailing about to inflict the minimal amount of injuries that Zim received. They were in some sort of a fight. Three witnesses said so. There is no need for conspiracy theories around Zim's injuries.

[brush]

17. So you agree he lied?

Why did he lie and exaggerate? Because he had to make it look like it was self defense for him to be justified in killing the kid. And the jury, and it seems you and many others, bought it.

20-30 head bashes on concrete and he's just gets up from that? That was the biggest lie of all the lie she told and some still believe him.

Amazing!

[naaman fletcher]

19. I didn't "buy" anything.

I said: "Trayvon and Zimmerman were in a fight, during which Zimmerman sustained certain injuries. "

There were witnesses to this fight. The prosecution agrees there was a fight.

The fact that Zimmerman exaggerated his injuries does not mean that there was not a fight, during which Zimmerman sustained certain injuries.


I don't understand why people are unwilling to accept the basic facts of the case.

[brush]

21. Not my point at all

If you're in a fight, why lie about it?

And by the way, if there was this big, huge, life-and-death struggle, where's the evidence on Martin's body? There was none — not blood or dna from when Martin allegedly punched wannabe boy 35-45 times in the face, none from when he allegedly smothered zimmy's nose and mouth with his hands, and none from the blood that surely would have splattered up from the 20-30 head bashes on concrete. And there were no marks on Martin's hands from doing all that alleged head bashing and punching and smothering. How could that be?

If all that really did happen, there was no reason to lie. Yet he did. The evidence however (obviously not even considered by the jury) shows it didn't happen. zimmy had to make it seem there was a huge fight otherwise he was going to jail for murder because he shot and killed Martin.

And even if there was a huge fight, Martin also had the right to defend himself from a stranger, a possible pedophile for all he knew, stalking him in the dark while he was just walking home and nothing else.

You seem to be still making apologies for a killer.

Like I said in my earlier post, it couldn't have been much of a fight without some zimmerman dna on Martin.

Use your head, don't let your judgment be clouded by zimmerman bias.

The city of Stanford and the entire state of Florida should be ashamed that they came up with this glaringly racist judgment to let a killer go free with absolutely no punishment.

[naaman fletcher]

32. why lie about it?

Because you are afraid of being charged with killing the kid so you turn your scuffle into a life or death struggle.

Stop accusing me of apologizing for Zimmerman. Simply stating the most basic and simple fact of the case is not apologizing for Zimmerman, it's living in the world of reality.

There was a fight, during which time Zimmerman sustained injuries.

There were witnesses to this fight.

Do you think these witnesses just, ya know, made that up?


There was a fight. It's the most simple, basic, fact of the case.

[brush]

36. Why do you keep going on about the zimmerman injuries?

The ME and the detective both testified that zimmerman's injuries were VERY MINOR — their words. The only treatment he needed was a BAND-AID for God's sake. And your hero declined a hospital visit. Some injuries.

And yeah, i think the one witness who said Martin was on top was either mistaken or lying. Another witness said just the opposite.

And like I said, it wasn't much of a fight because Martin had no zimmy dna on him at all.

I notice you keep avoiding addressing that big, piece of evidence that puts the lie to zimmy's whole story.

And by the way, take a look at this video. And if you have the guts, watch it all the way through.if you have the guts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017131778

[naaman fletcher]

37. The whole reason we are talking,

is that you disagree with my statement that there was a fight, during which Zimmerman received certain injuries.


I did not argue that the injuries were minor or not. Nor did I argue who was on top during the fight one way or the other.

There was a fight.

That is a fact.

[brush]

40. And I keep saying there wasn't much of a fight

There was a brief struggle, IMO, with the MMA-trained, heavier and physically stronger (adult male upper body strength possessing zimmerman) prevailing.

Now watch the link I sent you, and then talk to me about the absence of zimmerman dna on Martin.

[naaman fletcher]

41. OK, so there was a fight.

We are in agreement.

[brush]

47. What about the video and the dna issue?

Are you avoiding them?

[naaman fletcher]

48. Can't watch the video now

I am in a room with a bunch of people.

[KurtNYC]

5. I think the gun was out before any physical contact started

That would explain why TM winds up on top of GZ and screams desperately for help until the shot is fired. I think TM just panicked because some crazy stranger in the dark stalked him and pulled a weapon. He fought for his life and lost.

[bushisanidiot]

6. He had to have had his gun out.

That explains the blood curdling screams of a kid that has a gun pointed at him knowing there are no witnesses to what is about to happen to him.

Its sad to think that trayvon fighting off his attacker would be the very reason why the killer was allowed to get away.

[Grammy23]

22. I believe that Zimmerman almost certainly had his gun out of the holster when he

approached, caught up with or otherwise encountered Trayvon. Why else would the 17 year old just punch Zimmerman in the nose? The only thing that has made any sense at all to me is that Zimmerman took the gun out of the holster when he left his truck. In true Barney Fife fashion he began looking around for Trayvon.

They met and Trayvon probably did ask him if he (Zimmerman) had a problem. Instead of telling him the truth....that he was the Neighborhood Watch person and just out on patrol, he lied and said No. Or another possibility is that Trayvon saw the gun during their encounter, panicked and punched Zimmerman since he was already afraid that Zimmerman was tracking him. We'll never know the complete truth about this encounter other than they had some kind of altercation. What provoked that encounter we won't know either. Zimmerman's explanation makes no sense.

Having the gun out, ready to shoot, is the only thing that makes sense to explain everything that followed. Once Zimmerman realized he was not in a position to win a fight that HE started, he used the gun on Trayvon.

Which makes Zimmerman the aggressor and Trayvon the one who was defending HIMSELF.

[ejpoeta]

31. that one lady said that whatever scuffle there was ended before they got to her back yard.

Was she even called to the stand? I know that she had to call plenty of times just to get the police to take her statement.

[lumpy]

35. I didn't believe witness, Mr Good, account of what he observed Claims he could tell what color

Zimmers jacket was (red /black), and the skin color of both people, while 2 other eye witnesses testified that it was too dark to determine who was who on the ground, let alone the color of clothes. Mr. Good was a friendly acquaintance
with Zimmer when Zimmer lived in the complex. here was simply not enough time for the extended fight that Zimmerman claims. One witness testified that she was sure that Zimmerman was on top during the struggle when the shot occurred and the shooter imediately dismounted and paced around.

[LiberalFighter]

51. In my mind it would have to be.

Otherwise his gun was holstered in the back. How does one remove it when they are on their back and someone is on top of them as he claimed?

[lumpy]

53. Since Zimmerman is left handed you would think it was more difficult to get to the gun while

on his back being straddled, smothered, beaten on the head 20 or more times. He claims he wiggled his way from under Martin for several feet . Guess he wasn't as much a marshmallow as his friend from the gym testified, a super cop wantabe.

[DevonRex]

54. I agree. Zimmerman grabbed Trayvon's sweatshirt with his left hand

and his gun in his right hand. Any scuffle was to keep the gun pointed away from him. When you're that close that's all you can do if you're not trained to deal with it.

[pintobean]

8. It's quite obvious that

you didn't follow this case. Too many of your points are just wrong.

[ellenfl]

14. what helper? i agree with your post AND your name! eom

[bushisanidiot]

15. Zimmerman said there was a guy there who he asked to help "restrain" trayvons dead body

I dont know if he testified. I missed parts of the trial.
But he got there before the police did.

[ellenfl]

16. oh, him. he came out after the fact, i think. he coulda helped zimmy move

trayvon's body closer to the concrete. i guess, after all, he didn't need to.

[lumpy]

39. Zimmerman refused the mans help. Went inside to call police.

n

[pintobean]

43. That's completely false.

Where are you getting your information?
I watched the testimony.

[premium]

20. Speaking from my training,

if I ever had to shoot someone, after the subject is down, we approach with gun trained on downed subject, remove weapon from subject's reach and then handcuff, even if it's obvious that the subject is deceased, That's standard procedure for any LEO.
Zimmerman may, and I stress may, have been thinking the same thing.

[Rex]

23. What was the weapon in this particular case then?

Not the concrete, too far out of reach. The can of Tea?

[premium]

25. Let me re-phrase that,

whether or not they have a weapon visible, the first priority is officer safety, hence the handcuffing whether the subject is deceased or not.

[Rex]

27. Oh I see, you mean he was in cop mode.

Thinking he had to restrain the dead body, because that is what cops do. Gotcha I get it now.

[premium]

30. Exactly,

I shoulda said that in the first place, thanks for saying what I meant to say.
My bad.

[Rex]

33. No don't apologize at all. We all have been flooded

with information these past weeks. It has been kinda overwhelming for most of us non-legal beagles and I do appreciate (I might get crabby about the verdict) all you legal/LEO folks trying to explain to us just how BAD the prosecution was in this case and that we should all be ready for a real letdown with the verdict (since most were thinking manslaughter).

I have to admit that I am still clueless about even fundamentals of laws and police actions, thought the one that I can identify with the most is officer safety.

[femmedem]

7. Yes, to me the distance between Trayvon's body and the sidewalk

was the strongest evidence against a self-defense acquittal. Whatever happened at the sidewalk had already ended by the time Zimmerman fired the gun.

The second strongest evidence was Rachel Jeantel's testimony that she heard Trayvon saying get off, get off, indicating that Zimmerman had grabbed or otherwise laid hands on him first. I found her credible, and wish she'd been asked to restate that testimony as often and clearly as she'd been asked to repeat creepy ass cracker.

Neither of these were emphasized in State's rebuttal.

[lumpy]

45. Yes. She was discounted as a witness apparently. One of the most important witnesses ignored

because she wasn't taken seriously ? Damn there was too much left out in this sham of a trial.There was so much testimony Zimmerman embellished such as claiming that Martin sat up after being shot in the heart, with blood in his lungs and spoke words of surrender to the effect
"you got me". Martin sat up ? and said words of surrender like he was a criminal who had been on the run ? Zimmerman got his man! This from a dying youngster ? God damn Zimmerman, he is no more innocent than any other criminal.

[uponit7771]

11. There were SO MANY inconsistencies in GZ's story it wasn't even fyunny

[JI7]

18. the prosecution did miss things, but i don't think it would have mattered to the Jury

unless you can make Trayvon white the verdict wouldn't have changed.

[pintobean]

24. If they were 20' off the sidewalk, he could have used Goode's patio

Lisa Bloom couldn't have looked at any of the crime scene photos.

[lumpy]

46. BS

[pintobean]

50. Gee wiz, Lump

That sure was a neat post.

?1b79b3da202957124496e3768cfb7b67cdb10c81

[mzmolly]

26. I wondered why the F that wasn't mentioned in the

trial as well. WTH?

[wercal]

28. He was around 7-8 feet from the walk

At the 13 second mark of this video:

You can see the body (covered up) near the walk. The walk is 5-6 feet wide, and the body is 6 feet long, for reference.

[madaboutharry]

29. How could he have "shimmied"

7 to 8 feet? It is such a lie.

[wercal]

34. Ok...I'll bite

How do you think Zimmerman got the cuts on the back of his head?

Its reasonable to question the number of times his head hit the walk.

Its reasonable to question how hard his head hit the walk.

But everybody gets wrapped up in unlikely conspiracy theories instead of questioning what is really questionable. If you go off on the tangent that they weren't even on the walk, you can't even get to the sensible questions.

So please enlighten me - where did the cuts on his head come from?

(BTW, he was found face down...but is face up in all photos, due to being rolled over by EMS. Just a thought).

[madaboutharry]

38. The two cuts on his head could have easily come

from the the grassy area, or a sprinkler head. They were little cuts.

[wercal]

44. A prosecution witness named John Goode placed the fight on the sidewalk

...so what good does it do to theorize about sprinkler heads?

Isn't it very likely that Zimmerman was walking on the sidewalk?

Isn't it very likely that Martin was walking on the sidewalk?

A witness places the fight on the sidewalk.

So...obviously its all concocted, and a sprinkler head is interjected.

[pintobean]

42. I would say that the walk is 4' wide

and the body is 6-7 feet away.
The questions and answers in your video , between 1:00 and 1:26, show that TM was still alive during the CPR attempts. Kinda punches a big hole in Bernie's theory that GZ knew he was dead.

[lumpy]

49. BS. Sure, someone who is shot point blank in the heart, shrapnel in his chest cavity, lung

collapsed filled with blood, unable to breath, is able to sit up and speak and then live long enough for emergency help? Give us a break! Zimmerman's lies are just not believable.

[pintobean]

52. Who claimed all of that?

Do you know what a sucking chest wound is? It requires life.

[DevonRex]

55. I think he broke his own nose on the dog waste receptacle, too.

The witness saw him walk over to it. One quick bang on the metal box and voila a broken nose. He could have done those silly cuts on his head with his fingernails or his gun, both of which had his blood on them.