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Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:03 PM

Russia Says It Will Arrest Openly Gay Tourists

Thinking of taking a vacation to Europe this summer? If a trip to iconic city of Moscow or the edgier St. Petersburg is on your bucket list, an anti-gay law recently passed in Russia may have you thinking again. It is now outlawed to be ‘out and proud.’

In a throwback to the country’s authoritarian ruling, Russian president Vladimir Putin has signed a controversial law that punishes people for “homosexual propaganda.” The law fines people—including tourists—up to 200,000 rubles ($6,240 CDN) for “propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations.” For Canadians—where same-sex marriage is legal—it is unfathomable that Russia’s laws permit the government to arrest and detain gay, or pro-gay, foreigners for up to 14 days before they would then be expelled from the country.

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According to Voice of Russia, any display of affection between same-sex couples could cause a “distorted understanding” that gay relations and heterosexual relations are socially equivalent, and risk spreading Western liberalism. Putin claims the law doesn’t discriminate against LGBT people, but rather—in an argument riddled with faulty logic—is there to “protect children from pedophilia.”

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And how are these new laws going to impact tourism and the world’s spotlight on the upcoming 2014 Winter Games in Sochi? Will LGBT visitors—or anyone who embraces the gay community—want to visit the games? While Russia’s laws stigmatize and target the gay community, Brazil’s Ministry of Tourism is working to encourage the LGBT community to visit. Brazil, which is hosting the 2016 Summer Olympic Games, as well as the 2014 World Cup.

More at link: http://www.travelandescape.ca/2013/07/russia-says-it-will-arrest-openly-gay-tourists/

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Reply Russia Says It Will Arrest Openly Gay Tourists (Original post)
MinneapolisMatt Jul 2013 OP
Brickbat Jul 2013 #1
GeorgeGist Jul 2013 #2
LuvNewcastle Jul 2013 #30
roamer65 Jul 2013 #72
11 Bravo Jul 2013 #77
DCBob Jul 2013 #3
Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #23
geek tragedy Jul 2013 #24
Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #26
geek tragedy Jul 2013 #28
Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #33
geek tragedy Jul 2013 #37
Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #42
geek tragedy Jul 2013 #43
pnwmom Jul 2013 #95
pnwmom Jul 2013 #93
WinkyDink Jul 2013 #83
DCBob Jul 2013 #90
DCBob Jul 2013 #31
Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #35
DCBob Jul 2013 #41
Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #44
phleshdef Jul 2013 #53
treestar Jul 2013 #73
DCBob Jul 2013 #70
snooper2 Jul 2013 #112
NineNightsHanging Jul 2013 #51
WinkyDink Jul 2013 #84
silvershadow Jul 2013 #60
DCBob Jul 2013 #71
silvershadow Jul 2013 #81
bunnies Jul 2013 #4
Blackford Jul 2013 #5
sufrommich Jul 2013 #10
Blackford Jul 2013 #11
sufrommich Jul 2013 #16
dbackjon Jul 2013 #57
warrant46 Jul 2013 #100
dbackjon Jul 2013 #105
jmowreader Jul 2013 #115
ReRe Jul 2013 #62
Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #6
ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #8
Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #9
ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #12
Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #13
ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #14
Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #17
Zorra Jul 2013 #109
Hissyspit Jul 2013 #67
Cha Jul 2013 #79
WinkyDink Jul 2013 #86
treestar Jul 2013 #96
ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #7
DonCoquixote Jul 2013 #15
Nye Bevan Jul 2013 #18
Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #25
roamer65 Jul 2013 #74
DCBob Jul 2013 #80
WinkyDink Jul 2013 #88
DCBob Jul 2013 #91
WinkyDink Jul 2013 #94
DCBob Jul 2013 #98
geek tragedy Jul 2013 #110
WinkyDink Jul 2013 #121
treestar Jul 2013 #97
WinkyDink Jul 2013 #87
Scuba Jul 2013 #19
Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #20
Hydra Jul 2013 #34
Blue Owl Jul 2013 #21
Lex Jul 2013 #22
Behind the Aegis Jul 2013 #27
geek tragedy Jul 2013 #39
DonRedwood Jul 2013 #54
nykym Jul 2013 #29
cthulu2016 Jul 2013 #32
BeyondGeography Jul 2013 #36
RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #102
BeyondGeography Jul 2013 #104
RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #116
BeyondGeography Jul 2013 #117
Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #38
geek tragedy Jul 2013 #40
Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #45
geek tragedy Jul 2013 #46
DevonRex Jul 2013 #64
LuvNewcastle Jul 2013 #47
pampango Jul 2013 #68
LuvNewcastle Jul 2013 #75
pampango Jul 2013 #78
LuvNewcastle Jul 2013 #82
KamaAina Jul 2013 #48
hughee99 Jul 2013 #59
Rex Jul 2013 #49
KamaAina Jul 2013 #50
Aerows Jul 2013 #52
Rex Jul 2013 #61
dembotoz Jul 2013 #55
dbackjon Jul 2013 #56
burnodo Jul 2013 #58
dbackjon Jul 2013 #65
WinkyDink Jul 2013 #89
dbackjon Jul 2013 #106
burnodo Jul 2013 #114
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #63
Nevernose Jul 2013 #66
WinkyDink Jul 2013 #85
DallasNE Jul 2013 #69
Starry Messenger Jul 2013 #76
WinkyDink Jul 2013 #92
Starry Messenger Jul 2013 #103
MineralMan Jul 2013 #99
RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #101
Ms. Toad Jul 2013 #107
LeftinOH Jul 2013 #108
jmowreader Jul 2013 #111
markiv Jul 2013 #113
OldEurope Jul 2013 #118
Scurrilous Jul 2013 #119
EC Jul 2013 #120
RKP5637 Aug 2013 #122

Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:05 PM

1. Shameful.

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:07 PM

2. It would be a useful ...

if Olympic athletes said no to Sochi.

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Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #2)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:54 PM

30. I agree. There should be a boycott of the games.

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Response to LuvNewcastle (Reply #30)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:59 PM

72. That dumb idea was tried in 1980.

I think a better idea is for the athletes to go and wear pro-gay clothing. Shove it right in Pootie's face.

Turn the games into a big gay party.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #72)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 07:58 PM

77. And again in '84, this time by the Soviet bloc and a few other countries.

I was at the LA Games, and still have my "Let the Russians Play With Themselves" T-shirt.
(And I TOTALLY agree with your idea about the athletes putting it to Putin. That needs to be spread far and wide!)

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:08 PM

3. Who cares.. as long as they are helping our hero Eddie Snowden.

(as if this was necessary)

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Response to DCBob (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:37 PM

23. Would you consider that remark appropriate if another minorty group was being targeted?

If it was Catholics being arrested, or Jews would you still make such a comment? The OP says they are arresting a minority group for existing, your response is 'Who Cares'. That is disgusting.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #23)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:38 PM

24. Did you miss the sarcasm? nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #24)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:46 PM

26. Can you explain to me how that smilie makes a tacky inappropriate off topic joke funny?

The poster, not you of course because to address one's own post is too much to ask, seems to snark at Snowden using the arrest of a minority group as set and setting for that swipe.

I asked a question which neither you nor the other poster answered, so I will ask it again:

If it was Catholics being arrested, or Jews would you still make such a comment?

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #26)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:50 PM

28. Honestly, I see Jews joking about anti-semitism more than I do non-Jews.

The point is not to minimize the foul, rancid homophobic bigotry and persecution. It's to point out that, in general, Russia fucking sucks in terms of human freedom and that these flaws tend to get overlooked because they tweak the 'imperialists' every once and a while.

Ditto with Iran, Venezuela, etc where homophobia is miraculously overlooked by people who supposedly care about it here. Or worse, people who view it as a 'distraction' from 'real issues' which usually means 'stuff affluent straight white males care about.'



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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #28)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:57 PM

33. Yeah, is that poster LGBT? If not then 'Jews joking about anti semitism' is not analogous at all.

How about Germans joking about antsemitism? Do you see much of that? Outsiders making jokes about it when the conversation is about actual oppression of Jews?
Still did not answer my question, and the person who commented is still silent.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #33)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:03 PM

37. The joke isn't about homophobia, it's about people who hypocritically

look past homophobia when it suits them. (Conversely, one could argue that there are people who only care about homophobic bigotry when they can use it as a weapon against someone).


Certainly, there have been Donnie McClurkin and Rick Warren jokes and wisecracks delivered at Obama's expense.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #37)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:07 PM

42. And that is appropriate in this thread how? And again:

If it was Catholics being arrested, or Jews would you still make such a comment?
Third time asking that question, which still remains unanswered as you and yours spin on and on.
The other questions your refuse to acknowledge, well, that's your trip, disrespect for the very people being used as fodder for Snowden jokes. 'Hey, they are arresting all the Jews, lets go make jokes about Snowden!!!!!!'
Good stuff you got there. When you can't answer a direct question, you should look at what that is prior to typing up more crap.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #42)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:10 PM

43. Hope this answers your question

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3226953

I misunderstood where you were coming from, but now that I understand I agree.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #33)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:40 AM

95. Using sarcasm is not making a joke. It's a ironical expression by which

you express meaning the opposite of what is spoken.

Unfortunately, it is reliant on tone of voice and the subjective understanding of both the speaker and the listener, so it is subject to misinterpretation. That is why DU offers the smilie -- so that any writer can make his use of irony abundantly clear. Here, when we see a smilie saying "who cares?" the meaning is "everyone should care."

Despite the appearance of the smilie, sarcasm is NOT a joke. It's a way of expressing a serious thought.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #26)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:31 AM

93. The poster was denoting with his sarcasm smilie that everybody SHOULD care

about how Russians are arresting gay people. So I'm not sure what your problem about this is.

I would feel exactly the same if it was Catholics being arrested. That it would be terrible, and that the poster was expressing solidarity with the arrestees with his use of sarcasm.

Maybe you don't understand how sarcasm works. It means you're saying the OPPOSITE of what your words seem to say.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #24)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:12 AM

83. This was FAILED sarcasm. SARCASM would have been: "Who cares, as long as they're helping

the US govt apprehend the Abominable Snowden?"

See, implying Snowden is NOT heroic DOES NOT WORK for successful sarcasm. My sarcasm clearly mocks the US govt.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #83)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:24 AM

90. This is FAILED logic.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #23)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:55 PM

31. Sorry.. but I thought the sarcastic part was obvious but maybe not.. I'll explain it.

Some people are so hung up on the issue of NSA/Snowden they ignore other issues much more important.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #31)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:00 PM

35. And that's what you see as important when the issue is arrest of a minority group for existing?

You read this story and think 'Fodder for the Snowden Chronicles!!!!'
Good priorities which speak very highly of you and of the political views you advocate. Did you miss that sarcasm?

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #35)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:05 PM

41. Not really important..

its just came to mind.. the irony was too much to resist.

Sorry if it offended anyone.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #41)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:11 PM

44. If? Some apology.

This is one of the most shitty threads, three of you making Snowden cracks in a thread about the oppression of a minority group by a powerful government. The actual story is important, not your obsession with the Snowden story.
I asked if you'd make that comment if it was about threats of arresting all the Jews or Catholics and you did not answer that question. I don't blame you for evading the question, but you should think it over on your own time, Bob.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #44)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:43 PM

53. It takes a pair to attack a guy for doing basically what you do, all the time.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=312556

There you are, in a thread about Schumer's comments toward Putin over Snowden, and there you go attacking Schumer on gay rights when the thread had NOTHING to do with gay rights and completely ignoring Putin's atrocious gay rights record which is worse than anything Schumer ever voted for.

And then here you are today, in a thread about Russia's atrocious gay rights policies, getting mad at other posters who made jokes about Russia's aiding of Snowden when the thread has nothing to do with Snowden.

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Response to phleshdef (Reply #53)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 07:00 PM

73. +1

Subthread win

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #44)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:50 PM

70. Actually it seems some were not offended at all.

I think you need to chill out. Anyway, why would this story surprise you?? We are talking about Russia ruled by an ex-KGB officer who said he could kill someone with a ring.. which I suspect he has actually done in the past.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #44)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 10:38 AM

112. like you avoiding post #53?

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Response to DCBob (Reply #31)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:32 PM

51. What is more important than the clear possibility that we have a shadow government?

 

This is infinitely bigger than Snowden. There is a sinister conflation of issues here. It's not about Snowden. EVEN if he's a spy, a racist , or the worst person in the universe.

What if whistleblower Russ Tice's contentions are true? We already KNOW that FISA is drafting SECRET interpretations of the law that are SO BROAD they constitute new laws.

Other than environmental destruction, Im failing to see what could be more important than that the government is being run from behind the curtains.


That said, tourists (gay/straight) should opt out of visiting Russia

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Response to DCBob (Reply #31)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:13 AM

84. See my post #83. But your "explanation" is even WORSE, for to think that a Fascist state is NOT

paramount, is to be a FOOL.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 05:04 PM

60. Apparently it is. I've read the thread, which somehow devolved after it was conflated by faux

outrage (I say this as a gay man). I read your post, and saw it for exactly what it was. No need to comment further on what it wasn't.

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Response to silvershadow (Reply #60)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 06:53 PM

71. ..

thanks for the comments.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #71)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:00 PM

81. You're very welcome.

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:09 PM

4. Oh, Pootie...

yer such a card.

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:10 PM

5. The next time a wingnut complains t me about the "gay agenda...

 

I will tell them they hate freedom and are in the wrong country. They should move to Russia as soon as possible.

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Response to Blackford (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:14 PM

10. I was reading a thread on Free Republic where

someone was looking for a conservative country to move to,many of the Freepers were praising the "new" Russia as having the conservative values that they are looking for.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:16 PM

11. Funny that

 

Putin has formed a government with nearly as much authoritarian power as the USSR had under Brezhnev.

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Response to Blackford (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:26 PM

16. I think Russia has always been an authoritarian,socially

conservative country and they don't seem to be moving away from that,it certainly is ironic that freepers now find it an attractive Randian utopia isn't it.

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Response to Blackford (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:56 PM

57. But he was DEMOCRATICALLY Elected

So he can't be a dictator.


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Response to dbackjon (Reply #57)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 09:12 AM

100. Where have I heard that?

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Response to warrant46 (Reply #100)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 09:52 AM

105. Morsi, Chavez, Morales...

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Response to dbackjon (Reply #57)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 11:12 AM

115. So was Hitler

Mike Godwin is smiling now, but like Putin, Hitler took over in a time of severe economic crisis and artificially made the numbers look better before he morphed into his final form.

We joke about Somalia being a libertarian paradise, but it's not. Somalia is an anarchic system - for all intents and purposes Somalia has no government. Libertarians believe the government's only role is to protect life, liberty and property. Putin tried that - he cut taxes to the bone and deregulated as fast as he could. When Bush let the bankers kill the world economy, Russia got killed worst of all.

I just went to a hardcore Libertarian's website where I learned that the government needs to get out of the way of business. And I thought, "if your baby died because some food company decided melamine scrap was a good way to make its formula look better on a protein test, or everyone in town who went to the VFW picnic died because they ate rotten meat that had been buried in borax for a week to remove the stench, would that be okay with you?" Libertarianism worked okay 250 years ago when we were largely a nation of subsistence farmers.(Anarchy might work in Somalia, if it wasn't so hostile to life. Kinda hard to be a subsistence farmer with no water and infertile soil.) When everything you need to sustain life comes from people you have never seen, it becomes crucial that someone you can't pay off makes sure the things you buy are safe. And that, folks, is why we have a government.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 05:11 PM

62. Wouldn't that just be fine....

... if all red-state wingers would move to Russia?

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:11 PM

6. Snowden's current home....Russia

A paragon of openness, transparency and human rights.

They are utterly opposed to surveillance and espionage.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:13 PM

8. We should just make everything about Snowden.

He is, after all, the most important thing ever.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:14 PM

9. Actually he isn't

I just like poking the Snowden fan club.

It's fun.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:16 PM

12. I was also poking fun.

I had fun too.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:17 PM

13. Having fun is always good

Some folks are just too uptight.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #13)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:18 PM

14. Fun is fun. nt

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #13)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:28 PM

17. Nice to see straight folks having fun in a thread about a minority group being arrested. Fun!!!!!

I wonder at times if you folks have any idea how you sound when you play that shit on a thread like this. Clearly you don't.
Play Mad Libs with the OP. Replace the word 'gay' with the word 'Jew' read it out loud. Good fun times!!!!

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #17)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 10:15 AM

109. Nationalistic extremists, posting unrelated, off topic tripe, in order to derail a thread about

an important issue, (institutionalized, legalized homophobia), because a concerned citizen righteously exposed the dirty deeds of the MIC war machine.

But the real bottom line here is, everything is, and must be, about Obama

Did I get it all, Blue, or is there anything you'd care to add to that, to make it more accurate and/or comprehensive?

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 05:36 PM

67. Russia can be doing the right thing with regards to Snowden for the wrong reasons.

Some DUers can grasp nuance.

But it has fuckall to do with the OP.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 08:05 PM

79. Yeah, Snowden's a freaking hypocrite.. any place to run so he can

get away from bad ol USA. Who cares if it's fucking Russia?

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Response to Cha (Reply #79)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:20 AM

86. Yeah, who cares if he could end up in Gitmo without charges or trial? USA! USA!

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #86)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:41 AM

96. He couldn't

But in russia, he could end up in the equivalent and so can Russian people.

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:11 PM

7. Assholes. nt

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:19 PM

15. They host the World Cup in 2018

And the same assholes that run Fifa, the same ones mad at Brazil, are bragging that "sometimes, a littles less democracy helps ensure a World Cup."

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:29 PM

18. Arrested in Russia; executed in Islamic countries; can get married in the USA.

All things considered we live in a pretty good country.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #18)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:40 PM

25. Also in 29 US States, can be fired, evicted or denied housing or employment for being gay

directly, legally and with no other reason. So relative to arrest or execution US straight culture is great 'we don't kill our gays anymore, we just fire them!'
Also, by the way, we can marry in a handful of States, but the US itself has NO marriage equality, practices discrimination and has NO law to prohibit discrimination in Housing or Employment 21 States do. Most don 't and the Fed does not.
Pat that back!

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #18)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 07:07 PM

74. Some places in the USA.

We're ok but not the best.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #18)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 08:13 PM

80. Yet we have folks here who think this country is on the verge of Fascism.

America isn't perfect but it a far cry better than most other places on this planet.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #80)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:22 AM

88. You've never been to Europe, have you?

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #88)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:24 AM

91. many times.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #91)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:36 AM

94. Likewise. and I'd put virtually all those countries' standards of living (from freedom of the press

and speech to health-care to educational opportunities to plain old "neighborliness"/social interaction) miles above ours.

I had medical emergencies, e.g., in Portugal (twice), Amsterdam, and England, and not only was treated immediately; I was not billed at all.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #94)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 08:48 AM

98. How many have legalized gay marriage?

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #94)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 10:21 AM

110. Did you try wearing a head scarf in Paris?

Or advocating for overthrowing the monarchy in the UK?

Or having an abortion in Ireland?

P.S. Europe is a minority of the rest of the planet.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #110)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 09:38 PM

121. P.S. Ireland legalized abortion today. Better than some states!

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #88)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:44 AM

97. None of those countries have a Fourth Amendment to even quote

The potential for abuse is far greater.

As has proven to be the case in the last century.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #18)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:21 AM

87. "married in the USA"? And this all-state federal law was passed, when?

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:31 PM

19. Scuba predicts they'll get damned few.

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:32 PM

20. Russia has been in serious retrograde ever since Putin first took power

 

I remember when it happened at the end of last century. He is a snake and is driving his country to the bad old days.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #20)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:59 PM

34. I'm not convinced they left the bad old days

Old system crashed, Capitalism came in and the KGB cleaned up for while, then had Putin step in and make it all official and legal.

Not a victory for us or anyone else IMO.

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:34 PM

21. Get a room or you'll be Putin jail

n/t

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:36 PM

22. Sounds like the fundies need to go over to Russia and live out their fantasies. nt

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:49 PM

27. This is beyond disgusting.

I feel for the GLBT in Russia and the surrounding areas. And since the Winter Games are in Russia in 2014, I hope gay athletes from around the world join in a huge "kiss-in" during the opening ceremonies!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #27)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:04 PM

39. The IOC better protest this one and pronto. nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #39)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:48 PM

54. yes--i love the Olympics and watch a TON of it...willing to boycott any russian olympics

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:54 PM

29. You mean like this

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:56 PM

32. rec'ed for exposure of this terrible thing

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:01 PM

36. I really wouldn't rule out an Olympic boycott, or at the very least a major confrontation

This will be a major issue for the 2014 games; the volume will go way up, as it should. Putin's anti-gay law is world-class awful:

http://americablog.com/2013/07/russia-olympics-sochi-gay-law-putin.html

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #36)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 09:31 AM

102. We should push for the boycott to go viral starting now, IMO.

Thanks for the link.

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Response to RedCappedBandit (Reply #102)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 09:43 AM

104. If we do compete, bring rainbow gloves

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #104)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 11:31 AM

116. I wonder what the reaction would be

if athletes did that, and were subsequently arrested.

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Response to RedCappedBandit (Reply #116)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 11:54 AM

117. It could be an opportunity

If we boycott, Putin will try to bury the issue and say it's about Obama being a bully who wants to turn the clock back to the Cold War. If we go and our athletes make a stand, it could very well put Putin on the defensive and advance the cause of gay rights globally, especially if he does things like arrest athletes for wearing a glove on the medal stand.

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:03 PM

38. This is horrific and I cann't believe DU Straight Centrists bring Snowden into this without

any comment on the pogrom like laws. The centrists here are really of a low caliber.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #38)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:05 PM

40. Though we had a bit of a heated discussion above, I agree that

using homophobia as a way to score points in extraneous debates is extremely poor form.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #40)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:16 PM

45. Thanks, that's my point. Plus this is not just homophobia this is legal action against gay people

this is about arrests and detention of citizens and visitors. This thread is about why I can't go to Russia. It is not about Snowden.
Sometimes there are important issues. The number of Snowden snarks in this tread does much to define those who engage in such snark rather than speak a word against this atrocity.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #45)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:19 PM

46. I agree completely. nt

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #38)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 05:28 PM

64. Don't look now, but there's some point scoring going on below about Obama.

Apparently he doesn't care about LGBTs because he hasn't pulled the U.S. out of the Olympics. Even though this is new news and even though Obama is going to Russia in September and that will certainly be a topic of discussion. As it will be for all western countries and Putin prior to the Olympics. Putin has stepped in it this time. He won't get the facilities paid for if nobody comes.

I speak the language, I'm straight and I'm extremely wary of traveling to Russia. It has to be done with months of careful planning in the best of times. Putin has just made it known to the world exactly how dangerous it is. Finally.

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:23 PM

47. Isn't Russia trying to become an EU member?

I hope activists in Europe prevent that from happening. The EU should have some basic human rights standards from their members. Russia's behavior is unacceptable among civilized people.

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Response to LuvNewcastle (Reply #47)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 05:41 PM

68. No. They are very nationalistic and it is getting worse under Putin.

I doubt Russia and Putin want to sacrifice the sovereignty and power that joining the EU would entail. Plus Russia would then be subject to the European Convention on Human Rights which would not allow arresting gay tourists, obviously.

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Response to pampango (Reply #68)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 07:50 PM

75. I say that because someone posted a map of Europe

the other day that showed when each country had joined the EU. Russia was listed as a country that has applied to join. Now, do you actually know what you're talking about or are you just pulling shit out of your ass?

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Response to LuvNewcastle (Reply #75)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 08:02 PM

78. Check out the EU site that lists the countries that have applied to join. No Russia.

http://ec.europa.eu/enlargement/

In the interest of civility, I'll ignore your last sentence.

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Response to pampango (Reply #78)


Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:29 PM

48. How about LGBT athletes?

A number of male figure skaters are out.

The contrast with Brazil is interesting in that both are members of the emerging BRIC bloc of resource-rich nations: Brazil, Russia, India, China. (with South Africa wanting in to make it BRICS).

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #48)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 05:03 PM

59. I was wondering exactly the same thing.

They're going to have to do something for the upcoming Olympics or the figure skating competitions are going to be a mess.

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:31 PM

49. So Russia is anti-gay?

How extremely disappointing.

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:31 PM

50. I think Putin should run in the 2016 repuke primary

he's got the gay = pedophile hogwash down pat, plus Gee Dubya Boosh once looked into his soul.

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:37 PM

52. Truly awful

I hope that the 2014 Winter games are heavily boycotted.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #52)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 05:05 PM

61. +1

nt.

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:51 PM

55. they must have really developed the science of gaydar

maybe pat Robertson or Michele bachmans husband has been doing webinars for them

do they have a machine?

I do not seem to have the ability.

so that would be another job I would not be eligible for.

how would you disprove it???

I guess I should not worry--I must not appear to be gay--can't really remember another guy hitting on me sad to say the number of women who have hit on me is also extremely low as well so maybe it isn't gaydar at all but damn you are ugly dar.......





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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 04:54 PM

56. If Obama really cared about the LGBT community

He'd pull the US out of the Sochi Olympics

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Response to dbackjon (Reply #56)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 05:01 PM

58. How about a public statement from Obama condemning Russia for their homophobia?

 

I'm not going to hold my breath, but it would seem a reasonable action from a president who "champions gay rights".

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Response to burnodo (Reply #58)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 05:33 PM

65. That would be the least he could do

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Response to burnodo (Reply #58)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:23 AM

89. Really? Would you expect this before or after the one condemning Uganda's?

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #89)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 10:00 AM

106. Or Senegal, or Kenya, or Indiana

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #89)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 11:04 AM

114. As I said, not holding my breath

 

Interested to know what you think Obama should do if an American citizen was arrested in Russia for being gay

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 05:17 PM

63. This looks like a job for,...

THE SODOMOBILE!!!


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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 05:35 PM

66. Isn't Russia virtually a kleptocracy?

Ironic that the "criminals" they're looking for are gays, while organized crime is still wreaking havoc.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #66)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:19 AM

85. Oh, ABSOLUTELY! Hence, all the Putin billionaire cronies. They looted the Russian people's

industries and resources.

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 05:50 PM

69. A Throwback -- Really?

I vacationed in the Soviet Union in the spring of 1987, visiting both St. Petersburg and Moscow, and there was an openly gay male couple in our tour group and they were constantly having these little love spats. One time one of the gay men dumped the others belongings out (I remember seeing the belongings but no longer remember if it was in the hotel or the train we took from St Petersburg to Moscow).

We had different tour guides in the two cities and neither of them had an issue with gays nor did any of the people in uniform as they walked down the street arm in arm. Yes, this was the liberalized period of Gorbachev but what is this a throwback to -- the Stalin era?

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 07:58 PM

76. Musicians used to boycott South Africa during apartheid.

I hope people will put pressure on even before the Winter Games. It's sad to think of all the other problems Russia has, this is what gets voted for.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #76)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 07:30 AM

92. "Musicians like Frank Sinatra, Rod Stewart, Elton John and Queen who chose to play along

with the Bop farce did so, according to de Beer and fellow critic Peter Feldman, because they were paid top dollar to perform there."

While the UDM and the African National Congress were trying to topple the racist system, Sun City's brazen boss Sol Kerzner was trying the break the cultural boycott of South Africa by attracting top acts to his hilltop resort.

If Elton John can claim today he never played in South Africa it's because Sun City back then was located in Bophuthatswana one of the nominally independent, overcrowded "homelands" where the apartheid state dumped millions of blacks.

Yet to play Sun City, dubbed Sin City by whites who travelled there to gamble and ogle topless dancers (pleasures denied them in puritanical South Africa) was to recognise the puppet "homelands" in a way the international community never did.

"Bop was a joke," says art critic Diane de Beer, who attended several concerts at Sun City during the 1980s. "It was right in the middle of South Africa. If anyone looked at a map they would have known."

http://www.bt.com.bn/life/2008/01/13/recalling_sin_of_shows_in_apartheid_s_africa


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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #92)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 09:34 AM

103. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artists_United_Against_Apartheid

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artists_United_Against_Apartheid

Van Zandt became interested in writing a song about Sun City to make parallels with the plight of native Americans. Danny Schechter, a journalist who was then working with ABC News' 20/20, suggested turning the song into a different kind of "We Are the World", or as Schechter explains, "a song about change not charity, freedom not famine."

When Van Zandt was finished writing "Sun City", he, Schechter and producer Arthur Baker spent the next several months searching for artists to participate in recording it. Van Zandt initially declined to invite Springsteen, not wanting to take advantage of their friendship, but Schechter had no problem asking himself; Springsteen accepted the invitation. Van Zandt was also shy about calling legendary jazz artist Miles Davis, whom Schechter also contacted; with minimal persuasion, Davis also accepted. Eventually, Van Zandt, Baker and Schechter would gather a wide array of artists, including Kool DJ Herc, Grandmaster Melle Mel, Ruben Blades, Bob Dylan, Pat Benatar, Herbie Hancock, Ringo Starr and his son Zak Starkey, Lou Reed, Run–D.M.C., Peter Gabriel, Bob Geldof, Clarence Clemons, David Ruffin, Eddie Kendricks, Darlene Love, Bobby Womack, Afrika Bambaataa, Kurtis Blow, The Fat Boys, Jackson Browne, Daryl Hannah, Peter Wolf, U2, George Clinton, Keith Richards, Ronnie Wood, Bonnie Raitt, Hall & Oates, Jimmy Cliff, Big Youth, Michael Monroe, Stiv Bators, Peter Garrett, Ron Carter, Ray Barretto, Gil-Scott Heron, Nona Hendryx, Lotti Golden, Lakshminarayana Shankar and Joey Ramone.

These artists also vowed never to perform at Sun City, because to do so would in their minds seem to be an acceptance of apartheid

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 09:06 AM

99. Russia is still a regressive country.

I'm not surprised by their announcement at all. Those who look up to Russia for any reason are missing this part of the equation. Russia is not a friend of civil rights at all. It never has been, and still is not.

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 09:28 AM

101. Brilliant plan. Will be great for business.

This calls for a boycott. No olympics.

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 10:00 AM

107. Interesting.

We traveled there as an openly gay couple in the late 1980s and had not trouble.

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 10:06 AM

108. This should take Russia off the travel "bucket list" regardless

of one's sexuality. Go to tourist-friendly (and democratic) Germany or Scandinavia instead. The ban on "openly gay" tourists is barely any different than saying something like "no Jews allowed".

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 10:34 AM

111. You can take the boy out of the KGB...

Hey Russia, you want a real reform? Bar all ex-KGB officers from politics.

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 10:40 AM

113. a little perspective

 

when i was a kid, there was legitimate concern that if i visited the grocery store across town, i might be vaporized by russian missiles. there was nothing i could do, or anywhere i had the power to choose to go, where i could be sure this would not happen, no matter what i did or how i behaved. nobody ever gave a thought on how they would be treated if they went to moscow, as nobody ever considered going there

the us does not have a world dictatorship. i like pork, and occasional alcohol, most people would consider it unacceptable to persecute me for doing that here, but in saudi arabia you can go to prison for it - so i dont visit saudi arabia

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 12:01 PM

118. They better not try to arrest the German minister of foreign affairs.

He is gay, and everybody knows this.


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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 02:23 PM

119. Kick

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 04:52 PM

120. Red Square is now off my list. ... n/t

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Response to MinneapolisMatt (Original post)

Tue Aug 6, 2013, 05:24 PM

122. Right back to KGB rule and a totalitarian authoritarian state. Who would expect less of Putin and

his regime. I also would not be surprised to see a return of the cold war, seriously.

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