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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsVenezuela confirms receipt of Snowden's Asylum offer, now he just needs to fly there
All he has to do know if decide when he wants to fly there. When? How?
The US Edward Snowden can come to Venezuela when he wants, the President stated today...
noticias.terra.com.pe/internacional/latinoamerica/snowden-puede-volar-a-venezuela-cuando-lo-desee-presidente-maduro,b9280699fa0cf310VgnCLD2000000ec6eb0aRCRD.html
"We told this young man, 'you are being persecuted by the empire, come here'", added the President
"Ya nos llegó la carta de solicitud de asilo (...) Tendrá que decidir cuándo vuela, si quiere finalmente volar para acá", aseguró Maduro en el Palacio de Miraflores, la sede de la presidencia en Caracas.
"Le decimos a este joven 'Usted está siendo perseguido por el imperio, véngase para acá'", agregó el mandatario.
http://www.laprensa.hn/Secciones-Principales/Mundo/Estados-Unidos/Venezuela-recibio-peticion-formal-de-asilo-de-Edward-Snowden
mick063
(2,424 posts)And my hair never was on fire.
The defense of a security state was.
My hair never was.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)A shout out to a very brave young man.
mick063
(2,424 posts)And if you were to check my post history, it would indicate I have been rather indifferent about the young man.
The extraordinary effort to demonize him, more than just about any controversial person in memory, leads me to believe he touched a deep nerve. Leads me to believe he is endangering large sums of money. Leads me to believe he is capable of political upheaval. I don't know the name of the leader of Westboro Baptist Church, but Snowden is etched into my brain as if chiseled into marble.
This tsunami of vitriol, disproportionate beyond compare, leads me to believe he is on the right track. To my recollection, I have not seen thread after thread, post after post, article after article, about individuals of greater threat or more shocking behavior. The reaction, of longer duration and equivalent magnitude, to others that have, for example, constructed an explosive with a pressure cooker. If people were to really understand the magnitude of threat to their personal lives, the political pressure to jail those that caused the economic debacle of 2008 would be of much greater import.
No, this man is quite capable of humiliating powerful people and ruining political aspirations. It is the only explanation of such a coordinated, professional, focused chorus of howls. Venezuela and Bolivia would not extend asylum offers to a mass murderer. Iceland would not bring a vote to extend citizenship to a psychotic nut. Germany and France would not be lecturing the United States based on the words from a raving lunatic.
Considering that I am relatively pissed at the financial moguls pulling the puppet strings of Democracy, presenting the façade of representation, imposing their will upon our daily life, I am all for the humiliation he has caused them.
I hope he costs them trillions with respect to their version of corporate socialism, otherwise known as "security".
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Well said!
I hope he costs them trillions too. That's OUR money anyway.
But now comes the time to ask if he is a whistleblower or a traitor.
This can only come with a fair hearing, with accurate facts presented, in transparency for the nation to observe. I personally believe our constitutional freedoms ride in the balance. Unfortunately, mechanisms are in place that will always prevent that.
One thing this War on Terror has taught me is that it has become convenient to classify material only for the purpose to err on the side of political self preservation.
I honestly don't know the severity of his crimes or if knowing all the facts, I would consider them to be crimes. Due to the secure nature of his work, I will never know. If he has indeed, legitimately endangered us, he should be apprehended and face justice.
The failure of our government to come clean with American citizens and her allies raises doubt and suspicion. Caught in a lie just once has tremendously altered my perception. For the administration, Clapper was a debacle. Clapper's lie, more than any other reason, leads me to believe that Snowden would never find justice in our nation. It is only because my belief that Snowden would not receive fair trial, would I believe he should live in asylum in South America.
I have worked in sensitive positions before. I am fully aware of the damage that can be done. I do not condone such "illegal" behavior on a whim. On the other hand, I am absolutely opposed to blanket data storage and collection. My belief so strong, that I am inclined to hope Snowden goes free. I believe this data collection to be a crime of much greater scale. Further, I would hope this to ripple into the private sector. People willingly giving up information to be the acceptable threshold. People unaware that such information being distributed for profit to be the unacceptable threshold.
ReRe
(10,611 posts).... that's our trillions in their pockets. Quite a smooth shell game they had going... Have been wondering how all our money got into their pockets.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)smear campaign backfired on them for all the reasons you stated. NOW it's about Snowden, THEY made it about him. We tried to get them to focus on what had been revealed, but it was clear some 'professional moronic Contractor' got the crazy idea that if they demonized the messenger, the message would be lost. And to think someone pays for this utter stupidity.
They made hero out of him and people will assume when they see the next smears against him, that is nothing more than propaganda and lies.
To smear someone effectively you need to have credibility. That essential quality has been lacking in those working so hard to smear this guy and as a result they produced the opposite result of what was intended.
retired rooster
(114 posts)Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)El Universal ^ | Monday July 08, 2013 03:37 PM
The White House warned on Monday that former CIA staff Edward Snowden may not be allowed to travel to any other country but the United States.
The statement came after the US citizen was recently offered asylum by Nicaragua, Venezuela, and Bolivia.
The US Government keeps in touch through relevant diplomatic channels with all countries Snowden could travel across or choose for his final destination, said White House's spokesperson Jay Carney, EFE reported.
Carney's statement has been the first official US reaction after Nicaragua, Bolivia, and Venezuela recently offered Snowden asylum.
Carney further explained there were sufficient legal arguments for Russia to expel Snowden to the United States, despite the lack of any extradition bilateral treaty.
...
http://www.eluniversal.com/nacional-y-politica/130708/washington-warns-snowden-may-only-travel-to-the-us
Sorry White House, it is his international human right to seek asylum. Now tell us more about "Boundless Informant".
Autumn
(45,802 posts)You know, sovereign nations.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)We're going to defend our economic, political, and democratic dignity, economic sovereignty. "
Evo Morales, yesterday in an interview with RT Espanol
allin99
(894 posts)interesting dude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales
Here's an interesting bit:
His opposition to the U.S. attempt to erradicate the coca trade] often resulted in him being jailed and in an incident in 1989, beaten near to death by UMOPAR forces (who, assuming he had been slain, dumped his unconscious body in the bushes where it was discovered by his colleagues).[24]
Yeah, not a guy who's gonna give into the yanks. lol.
allin99
(894 posts)"In September 2008, Morales accused the U.S. ambassador to Bolivia, Philip Goldberg, of "conspiring against democracy" and encouraging civil unrest, and went on to order him to leave the country.[52] The U.S. government responded to Morales's action by ordering the Bolivian ambassador, Gustavo Guzman, out of their own country.[53] The following day Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez stood in solidarity with his Bolivian allies by ordering the U.S. ambassador Patrick Duddy out of his country, telling him to "go to hell 100 times" and withdrawing the Venezuelan ambassador to the U.S.[53]"
lol.
and apparently after libya he said obama's peace prize should be revoked. lolol.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)allin99
(894 posts)so it was even funnier. lolol.
he sounds just like an announcement for a spanish tv show, except more cursing at the united states. lol.
Response to Catherina (Reply #5)
LumosMaxima This message was self-deleted by its author.
ReRe
(10,611 posts)And the USA can't order other countries around, unless....
the USA blackmails the country.
If you ask me, the USA shouldn't orta' do that right now.
We just might end up blackmailing ourselves into a corner.
I want to see Snowden's face next to Maduro's in Venezuela via TV or Dish or Skype.
Would definitely be the kind of "blowback" I would like to see, instead of the "terroristic" kind.
I will dance in my computer chair when he arrives there!
Thanks, Catherina, for posting this "ominous" booga booga threat from Carney.
hack89
(39,179 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)Longer but maybe China and other Asian countries won't block him.
hack89
(39,179 posts)that they don't want to loose.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)It could probably be Aeroflot all the way to Havana that way although I would have to look at their flight information to see if it's possible.
hack89
(39,179 posts)Additionally, their Havana route goes through US airspace.
kentuck
(112,300 posts)on that point. They do fly over US airspace usually when they fly to Havana.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)hack89
(39,179 posts)We would simply not let it enter US airspace.
hack89
(39,179 posts)like they do to airliners all the time. Any plane needs explicit permission to enter US airspace - it is not automatically granted.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)retaliate about if we take away theirs.
hack89
(39,179 posts)they don't care that much about him.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)It makes them lose face.
hack89
(39,179 posts)they just want him out of Moscow - they don't care what happens to him on foreign soil.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)hack89
(39,179 posts)And again Aeroflot has to decide if they want to risk US retaliation.
We can fix our request with Ireland - it was rejected on an administrative technicality.
Time will tell.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Overflight issues are at other end.
hack89
(39,179 posts)it would be needlessly pissing off Obama.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Hes already let Snowden stay in transit area for a week.
hack89
(39,179 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)So there's every expectation he'll help Venezuela.
hack89
(39,179 posts)he will do what ever he thinks will benefit him the most. If that means selling Snowden down the river then so be it. You don't rise to the rank of Lt Col in the KGB by forgetting what is really important.
Like I said - time will tell.
Autumn
(45,802 posts)rec.
Autumn
(45,802 posts)I worked in the shipping department of a manufacturing firm. I handled the Venezuelan orders on a monthly basis. A typical order would be 12 to 14 pallets boxed and shipped. The day after Chavez spoke of the devil and the sulfur at the UN I went to work and I had one pallet left to finish up, I got the pallet done and got my corner pieces to put on before I wrapped it. No one was around so I got my corners and a permanent marker and wrote Viva Chavez on 2 and Bush Sucks on the other 2. I taped them on the corners, shrunk wrapped the last pallet and shipped them off. I like to think that when they unwrapped that pallet in Venezuela someone saw it and enjoyed reading it as much as I enjoyed writing it
Catherina
(35,568 posts)We are not their enemy!
msongs
(69,451 posts)allin99
(894 posts)unless he's just saying that. b/c even if snowden is unable to make a call, he's got others he's communicating through. i'm officially lost. i give up. lol. i might have to skip a day.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)allin99
(894 posts)i see him say he got a letter
that he's offered
and at some point he references all of Latin America
and that snowden will have to decide when
but at no point does he say anything about snowden even acknowledging the offer
But this is my favorite line. lol.
"Latin America is saying to this young man: you are being chased by the Empire, Come over here,"
Catherina
(35,568 posts)That's what they were waiting for after they made the offer Friday. Now it's all official and he has it.
allin99
(894 posts)originally sent a request to.
http://www.voanews.com/content/snowden-gets-support-from-venezuela/1693428.html
They perhaps had not received it up to that point, but wikileaks had it as one of the countries he applied to according to that image.
longship
(40,416 posts)That was what Ven was saying earlier with their approaching deadline.
The big question remaining -- there are many in this very confusing matter -- is whether the Russians might assist, or turn their backs. Or, whether some "letters of transport" -- shades of Casablanca -- can be delivered to Snowden at Sheremetyevo so he can continue his journey.
But given the Evo Morales debacle of last week, Snowden's itinerary will likely have to be carefully orchestrated. There are no direct flights from Sheremetyevo to S.A. Still, apparently Raul Castro has signaled that a plane with Snowden on board may find a friendly, or at least not a hostile, tarmac in Havanna.
Regardless, it will take a third country's assistance, or blind eye, to get Snowden to safety. There may be no way to do it.
I will remain neutral, but this is one helluva story. I intend to stay tuned.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)I'm sure there's contact via the Venezuelan, Ecuadoran embassies in Moscow. Assange has been very much in the know too. They're just not blabbing about it.
That silly business about no contact was blown up by the press. Maduro didn't even make the offer until Friday and I don't know what's involved in getting to the Embassy to get the forms and fax them in. Remember it was the weekend and embassies don't normally provide consular services on weekends.
I was hoping he was already there lol.
thanks.
so i guess we're at the point:
-all offers are still on the table (Ncga, Vnzla, Blva, ever so possibly uraguay, and probably waiting for another offer from somewhere)
-i believe with all certainty any of the countries will give him the letter he needs
-putin will help in any fairly passive up to not *too* active way that he can
all es needs is either vnzla or another nation to pick him up OR
somehow, and i'm really not sure how, maybe b/c there is no reference for it in history, lol, someone to rent homeboy a long-range jet
i just don't see him getting on a commercial flight.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)Commericial? Private jet? Presidential jet? Boat?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)A plan would have to go across the Atlantic for a long time if it were to go from Africa. Not many pilots would do it.
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)To do a boat he would have to leave the Moscow airport and Russia is not going to let that happen
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)It will likely mean they will have to fly over the Atlantic from Africa to South America. Will a pilot be willing to do that? That is taking a big risk.
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)People file fake flight plans. There are plenty of non western pilots who would do that. You file in this case a flight plan to west Africa, refuel there, and then fly direct to venezuela. That is how you could get over Europe and to west Africa. The issue would be if Russia would tell the US when he left and what plane he was on.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)land.
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)A flight from west Africa to Cuba or Venezuela is nothing special to worry about
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)But in the end they can get military pilots that have to do it. I am sure they will figure it out.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Is north from Moscow to the Arctic Ocean, west past Iceland, southwest between Iceland and Greenland, a gradually curving great circle course off the NA coast to Bahamas, and south to Caracas. Its about 11K km, a good bit longer than usual non-stop Moscow to Havana flight, but well within range of a large jet.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)The pilot could still pull into land if something goes wrong. Greenland is Danish territory so it will be important to see their opinion on this. Would also have to see what the Bahamas would do.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Can detour around Bahamas if necessary...not a problem if going to Caracas. Biggest problem is cost. This would have to be a charter flight...cost is going to be $200K or more. Perhaps 16-18 hours flight time.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)But I think there were overflight problems with Baltic and Scandinavian countries on regular route.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)hack89
(39,179 posts)You can bet they all been told it would be in their best interests to stay out of it.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)hack89
(39,179 posts)defying the US government may not be wise for an international air charter that makes a lot of money flying people to and from the US.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)It would be great PR for a company working in Latin America or Middle East.
hack89
(39,179 posts)where do you think those people in LA and the ME are flying to?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)So that could be a problem to puzzle out.
allin99
(894 posts)Some rich crazy person gives him a ride in his private plane. I know it needs to be a big plane, but i think that's how he'll get there.
either that or he takes some weird-ass risk with commercial flights and gets brought down by blocked airpsace.
allin99
(894 posts)but i thought it was interesting that they wrote as if it were quite sincerely a reasonable option...
In the event that Snowden decided to come to Venezuela, Nicaragua or Bolivia, identification documents should be issued for the former agent to leave Sheremetyevo Airport, in Moscow.
Once his identity documents have been issued, the government granting asylum would send a plane to Moscow, possibly a military aircraft, to move the US citizen. Then, a flight path has to be established and the overflight of the relevant nations has to be authorized previously, lawyers explained.
Snowden's departure would give some respite to Russia; otherwise, this case would harm Moscow's relations with Washington. Further, the G20 Summit would be tarnished by the absence of Barack Obama, who would not attend the meeting if the former agent stays in Russia.
donco
(1,548 posts)how would Jack Bauer handle this?Would Jack be looking at a cruse ship?Perhaps a cargo container?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)MjolnirTime
(1,800 posts)adieu
(1,009 posts)should make sure that he flies on the plane with the largest number of international passengers. Please, please don't fly some single-engine Cessna from anywhere to anywhere.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)kentuck
(112,300 posts)It would be like something Hugo Chavez would have done. It's the type of decision that wins elections.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Tweeting about it like crazy, saying that Maduro is only doing this to cover up the fact that he stole the election from him. It's so pathetic. I think the polls showing that the majority of Venezuelans approved of Maduro's handling of things and had confidence, sent Capriles off the deep edge.
You're right, his poll numbers are going to climb after this. Everyone wants to have a cup of coffee or of mate with Snowden. It's so wonderful to see.
The increase in support for the president is attributed to direct communication with the electorate, such as Maduro's street government initiative, according to ICS director, Lorenzo Martinez.
This result is evidence somewhat that the Maduro government... has had a positive impact on the perception of the people... the political, social and economic landscape is improving, Martinez told state news agency AVN, following the publication of the results yesterday.
However, when asked how they viewed Maduro's management skills, a slightly higher figure- 56.2% of participants described the president's performance as excellent fair or good.
The 1,600 Venezuelans surveyed by the ICS between 15 to 26 June also expressed a favourable view of the economy and security, according to Martinez.
53.4% of participants stated that they feel the economy is improving, while 21.2% stated it has worsened. 24.8% said that the economy hasn't changed since Maduro took office, while 0.6% didn't know, or didn't answer.
...
As well as citing the street government, Martinez told AVN the results indicate that government initiatives to counter speculation and crack down on public sector corruption, along with efforts to enforce price controls have contributed to a positive outlook. According to Martinez, people can see solutions to their specific problems.
...
Another government initiative that Martinez said received some positive feedback from participants was the 'Safe Homeland' anti-crime program.
In its survey, the ICS also asked participants, do you think that the presence of security forces in the streets has increased or decreased? 70.7% reported an increase. First introduced in Caracas, under Safe Homeland soldiers have been deployed alongside police in some of the country's most crime ridden areas. On Thursday, the interior minister Rodríguez Torres announced that next week he will meet with churches to discuss ways that religious institutions can contribute to the initiative.
...
This work is licensed under a Attribution Non-commercial No Derivatives Creative Commons license
http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/9806
magellan
(13,257 posts)Catherina, I thought you wrote: "Everyone wants to have a cup of coffee or mate with Snowden."
And I thought, well, yeah, of cour -- waitaminute, what? Lol
I also hope he gets to Venezuela successfully and safely. But I do feel badly for him. No matter where he goes he'll be a marked man for the rest of his life. If we have no qualms about bagging a Muslim cleric off a street in the ME or droning children, we'll have no problem with going after Edward Snowden.
Historic NY
(37,717 posts)Russia won't issue a Visa because they don't want him in the country. He needs to have his revocation lifted. I don't see many countries playing games with the diplomatic protocols and agreements with passports & visa's....its almost universal for citizens traveling in or out of countries or working there.