ZIMMERMAN TRIAL: Day 10, Monday, July 8, 2013

[GreenStormCloud]

Lets group the trial posts into one big thread and not have a bunch of different threads.

Trail streaming live, no commentators or commercials: http://www.mediaite.com/uncategorized/live-zimmerman-trial-jury-selection-day-6/

Scroll down to the big picture of Z & click on it.

[itsrobert]

1. I am not sure what more evidence or witnesses the defense can bring in?

Unless Zimmerman testifies himself.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

3. I'm assuming that they'll try to bring on some medical expert....

....who claims that the injuries sustained by Zimmerman could be indicative of having one's head bashed into concrete repeatedly, although I'd doubt he/she would able to testify to that using a straight face.

[customerserviceguy]

354. Certainly they have their own medical expert

Also, I've read that they have a weapons expert who will try to support the TM-on-top-GZ-on-bottom posture of both when the gun fired. It would go a long way towards refuting the idea that GZ was just out to take target practice on those he suspected to be hoodlums that evening.

Also, if there were any other witnesses that the prosecution DIDN'T want to hear from, because they supported GZ's claims, we can certainly expect O'Mara to call them forward. And I suspect that there will be some backdoor way to get TM's "state of mind" prior to the incident into there, too. Gotta go for that "scary black man" thing with a female jury.

[pintobean]

2. Defense expects to conclude their case Wednesday

https://twitter.com/renestutzman

[GreenStormCloud]

4. Sandra Osterman called.

Mark Osterman's wife. He is a friend of Z.

[chelsea0011]

6. calls him "Georgie"

[Tommy_Carcetti]

203. Old Georgie?

[itsrobert]

5. Wife of Zimmerman's best friend

The defense is really reaching with this one.

[Shrek]

8. What can she offer that's relevant?

Anything?

[HipChick]

10. more lying

[chelsea0011]

12. But she said she wouldn't lie

[HipChick]

13. and I guess we are supposed to believe it...

George has already told different lies

[itsrobert]

11. She says she hears "Georgie" screams

this is just stupid.

[razorman]

192. I don't see the point of bringing in some of these witnesses, including the mothers

of Martin and Zimmerman. Each testified that the voice screaming for help on the recording was that of her son. What else would a mother say? So, what was the point?

[qazplm]

202. sometimes by not doing it

you signal to the panel that even the mother of the victim didnt say it was her boy.

That's why you do it. Same the other way, it's to remove that argument from play.

[razorman]

330. Sounds reasonable. But, any jury would not put much weight on such testimony.

After all, any mother will side with her son. It is only natural. I am sure that both of these mothers firmly believes in her son's innocence.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

7. My feed is freezing like crazy today.

Very annoying.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

17. Seriously, does anyone have an alternate feed?

Both the Mediate.com and WildAboutTrial.com are freezing like crazy.

[madaboutharry]

19. Google Trayvon Martin live feed and

scroll down until you get to Naples News. Their feed is great.

[madaboutharry]

9. Testimony from a best friend is not going

to make much of an impact on the jury. This is just ridiculous.

[Just Saying]

24. Agree.

She has nothing to add IMO.

[itsrobert]

40. CNN expert thinks this is helping the defense

because "Georgie" humanizes Zimmerman.

[Pelican]

158. Testimony from a mother is different?

[calimary]

221. Unfortunately, there's a slew of them who've come and all vouched for the same thing.

I just hate this. Looks to me like that murdering vigilante bastard is gonna get off. It will be a damn shame and a miscarriage of justice, and mind you - it's just my opinion. What I'm seeing looks like a pretty slick defense presentation. To ME - I think the SOB is guilty as sin! He MURDERED that kid with no provocation after stalking him and menacing him, and he had a gun so I'm sure it made him feel like Marshall Dillon or Rambo or Clint Eastwood back in the "go ahead, make my day" days, or some such.

Dear God I hope I'm wrong. But as I watch the trial, I can't help but think "Georgie" is gonna beat the rap. And go back to his gunslinging again. And what seems TO ME as malice aforethought - Zimmerman had it all "figured out" ahead of time based on earlier prejudices and assumptions of the moment that the kid was a nogoodnik and he was going down. And maybe "Georgie" will even feel vindicated because the jury in effect will have said it's perfectly okay what he did. While that innocent kid is in a grave, having been "armed" only with a bottle of iced tea and a pack of Skittles.

Cold blooded killing, is what it looked like to me. One party winds up needing a fucking Band-aid and the other party is shot - TO DEATH.

Dear God I hope I'm WRONG!!!!

[chelsea0011]

14. We are putting money from the book sales in our savings account to give to George

afterwards. Good grief

[TorchTheWitch]

30. why aren't they giving it to him now?

Seems like if they had any intent to give all the proceeds to him they already would have been doing that. The guy has no job and no way to pay the bills. They use his story to make money for themselves and now they claim that they'll give him that money they've already been earning all this time at some future date. Uh huh.

What a liar.

[madaboutharry]

15. This witness wrote a book defending him.

Oh Pleeze.....

[HipChick]

16. those 'tears' sure dried up quickly

[Jim__]

18. I can't believe the jury will give any credibility to this first defense witness.

There is no doubt that the person screaming on the tape is Georgie.

[chelsea0011]

20. and she just said "I felt I knew it was him"...she's a waste of time

[madaboutharry]

21. This is not going to assist the defense.

She comes off as a liar.

[itsrobert]

23. Seems like she has selective hearing loss

My next question is, "When did you last have a hearing exam?"

[Just Saying]

25. Exactly!

And she seems to think "asshole" is a term of endearment.



Who cares what this woman feels?

[avebury]

22. She is so full of sh*t! nt

[chelsea0011]

26. It's funny to me that experts aren't allowed to testify as to whose voice

is on the tape, but anyone else can testify whose voice it is.

[Duckwraps]

41. I thought they did, but

stated that the state of the art of voice recognition would not allow them to say one way or the other??????

[csziggy]

88. There were two audio experts the prosecution wanted to put on

That said they excluded Zimmerman as being the one who screamed. But Florida uses the Frye standard and the result of a hearing about those experts excluded them from testifying.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/zimmerman-defense-wins-frye-hearing-state-voice-experts-excluded/-/1637132/20674074/-/ctn8npz/-/index.html

[premium]

92. And the fact that just about every expert voice analyst

said their methods were junk science might have has something to do with the judge's decision.

[whopis01]

211. Florida used to use the Frye standard - not any more

But it wasn't changed in time for this case. As of 7/1/2013, Florida no longer uses the Frye standard.

[csziggy]

216. Ah - I knew there was a Frye hearing for this case - didn't know it changed

Thanks!

[TorchTheWitch]

27. FOR THOSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO WATCH BUT CAN'T WATCH LIVE...

crokerqueen123 on YouTube puts up the whole trial in segments every day, so you can watch it all at your leisure.

http://www.youtube.com/user/croakerqueen123/videos

[JustAnotherGen]

33. Thanks TWT

Back at work today so can't watch live.

[1monster]

61. Thank you!

[KurtNYC]

196. Very handy and you can skip the sidebars etc by scrubbing through and

looking for the shot of GZ standing up because they always cut to GZ when the jury enters.

[TorchTheWitch]

265. I've watched all of the trial there

since except for a little while today I haven't been able to watch live. It's unbelievable how much less time it takes when you can cut out the sidebars, breaks and all the other bits of nothing happening.

And the best part is you can pause it whenever you want to go take a bathroom break so you don't miss anything!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

28. Zimmerman's BFF Mark Osterman being called back to the stand.

I'm sure he'll get questioned likewise as to opinions on the screams.

[avebury]

29. I would love to know how much Osterman

has coached Zimmerman and/or encouraged him in his vigilante efforts.

[TorchTheWitch]

34. He's the one that told him to get a gun

This dude gives me the willies.

Anyone remember what department he works for? I can see his best friend the cop having a lot of influence as to how he was treated by the police. Makes me think it was him that Zimmerman was on the phone with right after the shooting when we know it was neither 911 nor his wife. People had been thinking it was his father, but I have a big suspicion it was this dude.

[avebury]

38. Cell phone records could prove what number he called.

I would love to see what number he called. That could make for an interesting interview with the person on the other side of the call.

[Lurks Often]

66. Pretty sure he is a Federal Air Marshal

and the Federal Air Marshal service has VERY high standards, it's supposed to be one of the hardest of the Federal law enforcement training schools to graduate from.

[premium]

80. He is a Federal Air Marshal

and it is one of the most demanding of academy's to pass.

[grantcart]

355. That's not accurate. I have clients that were Marshals and moved to

Border Patrol and so on and they all thought said that Air Marshals was the easiest.

The training time at the Academy is a fraction of ICE, Border Patrol and Customs LEOs.

https://hraccess-assessment.tsa.dhs.gov/Forms/PTATrainingGuide.pdf

While Air Marshals go 43 days the others go at least 4 months.

They probably have a higher standard for marksmanship and physical fitness but have less need for law, operations and language training.

Also it has the lowest morale of any Federal LEO, there is literally nothing to do.

The office in Las Vegas used to have over 400 agents and is now down to less than 70. Most of the most talented ones went on to other agenices and were never replaced.

[Lurks Often]

358. We're probably both right

the "higher standard for marksmanship and physical fitness" was my basis for it being difficult, but I will also agree that classroom training is less then that of other agencies.

[grantcart]

359. agreed

[chelsea0011]

31. Everyhting Osterman says about law enforcement and safety makes sense but

Zimmerman isn't in law enforcement.

[Just Saying]

35. That's what I don't get

He said these same type of things when he testified for the prosecution and I kept thinking, "Yeah, but he's not a cop." No wonder Z was delusional.

[riverwalker]

32. Osterman reminds me of someone

[TorchTheWitch]

46. his facial expressions are so creepy looking

I had to stop looking at him. There's something so weirdly like an animal or an alien with the strange things his face does.

[targetpractice]

50. He sure is sweating a lot.

Haven't noticed other witness sweat like he is.

[TorchTheWitch]

58. Neither have I

Courtrooms are usually frigid, too. He's either got sweat gland problems or he's nervous as hell. Then again, I don't remember all this perspiring when he was on the stand before. It's pretty gross. Then again, I hate sweat. Horses sweat. Woman just... glisten. LOL!

[yeoman6987]

113. He sure is sweating a lot.

Normally when a person is getting questions asked and the individual is sweating it means nervous and trying to BS....I know that is not the case for all, but it can be somewhat normal.

[riverwalker]

55. hyper animated

creepy and trying way to hard

[Ninga]

36. Personally, all the Ostermam blah blah blah about this gun and that gun and right gun and

wrong guns is not working for me...and additionally, the continuos playing of the screeming makes is more plausible that it was young Trayvon....

Yikes more gun talk...not good.

And on edit: he is an Eddie Haskle smart ass type...

[Just Saying]

44. It creeped me out

Especially because this is a trial about a kid that was shot and he seems way too happy to talk about guns.

Besides, he already testified. There's nothing new being covered.

[itsrobert]

48. But odds are there is at least one gun "nut" on the jury

this is playing very well with that juror. All they need is one.

[Just Saying]

87. Possible

But they're all women which I think is good.

[uponit7771]

51. yeap, now he's not trying to answer the threat question...

[HipChick]

52. This doesn't add up..

George Zimmerman had an internal holster meaning his gun was inside his waistband. Yet he claims Trayvon saw his gun? In the dark?

[Lurks Often]

71. A inside the waist band (IWB) holster has the gun's grip above the top edge of the pants

and would be visible if the covering garment rode up during the struggle. The photo of the holster indicates it is a IWB holster.

[yardwork]

121. Zimmerman insisted that his gun was not visible

In transcript of his questioning at the police station, Zimmerman says his gun is never visible. He says he walks around WalMart with it all the time and nobody ever noticed.

[Lurks Often]

126. I also mentioned a covering garment.

as I stated in my last post, the grip would ride just above the top edge of the pants. He would wear something worn outside of the pants to cover the grip, such as a long shirt or the jacket he was wearing the night of the incident

[yardwork]

129. No evidence that Martin ever touched the gun

The gun that was used to murder Martin didn't have his fingerprints or DNA. The only person who says that Martin touched the gun is the killer, who has made numerous lies in an effort to save his worthless butt.

[Lurks Often]

187. Which has absolutely nothing to do with my posts

, which were in a response to a question by another poster about the holster.

[Just Saying]

90. While simultaneously holding

One hand over his mouth and one over his nose and saying, "you're gonna die tonight motherfucker."

[louis-t]

176. That's what I kept asking.

[Ninga]

60. Last round of questions by Bernie were directed to clearly

establish that "citizens" do not have the same authority as officers.

[chelsea0011]

37. "It sounds like George" I'm shocked he said that

[Jim__]

39. Have Trayvon's parents testified as to whether the screams sound like Trayvon?

I haven't listened to the whole trial. But, I hope the prosecution had them testify to that.

[Ninga]

42. Sadly, His Mom has...

[Jim__]

47. Thanks. True that it's sad; but, at least the jury has heard testimony that counters this bullshit

... from "Georgie's" friends.

[itsrobert]

45. His mother and brother

very credible witnesses. Especially his brother.

[TorchTheWitch]

49. His mom and older brother did

It was hard to watch.

[cpwm17]

54. To my ears

the screams sound like a young adult hispanic male rather than Trayvon Martin. I think I hear a slight accent, which I also hear on GZ's phone conversation.

[itsrobert]

59. Wow and the FBI cannot tell at all

And you don't even know Zimmerman. You must have dog like hearing.

[cpwm17]

68. Voice recognition is a subjective experience

What we experience as sound in the human brain is not what the FBI can study. Many subtle voice differences can only be determine in the human brain.

You'd be denying reality if you claim that the human brain can't determine subtle differences in the human voice.

[itsrobert]

76. And you are denying reality if Humans don't see or hear things differently

Why do you think sports fans argue about play and ref/ump calls until they are blue in the face?

[customerserviceguy]

361. Good example

It's because sports fans are prejudiced to side with their own team, and see things in the most favorable light for their side. That's pretty much happening here, too, the reich-wing seizes on their points, we latch on to ours, and only the jury's opinion counts.

[Just Saying]

93. Zimmerman has an accent?

I don't hear it.

The voice sounds young to me and I believe it was Trayvon. Have you ever heard Trayvon's voice?

[premium]

98. I've heard him speak several times

I haven't heard any accent at all. The only time I've heard Trayvon's voice was on the recording, I didn't hear any accent there either.

[cpwm17]

101. To my ears he has a very subtle accent

No, I haven't heard Trayvon's voice. It would be nice if a sample was available.

[Just Saying]

125. Here's some audio of Trayvon's voice

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/t/video/exclusive-audio-voice-trayvon-martin-19352398

Not that any of us are voice experts, but people can form their own opinions as I imagine the jury will.

[cpwm17]

148. That link didn't work on my computer, but I found it at Huffington Post

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/07/trayvon-martin-voice-audio-abc_n_3403994.html

It was only a brief Trayvon Martin sample, but I still think it was probably GZ screaming.

[Just Saying]

343. Sorry it didn't work for you.

But I'm glad you found another.

I think it's Trayvon. For one thing, the voice sounds higher and younger than Zimmerman's. But I'm no expert and screaming because you're afraid for your life maybe everyone sounds higher.

But, I have trouble believing the guy trained in MMA, with a 40lb weight advantage AND a gun was the one screaming. Plus Zimmerman claims Trayvon had his hands on his nose and mouth at the time so how was Z screaming? (There was no blood on Trayvon's hands. ) Just one of many cases where Z's story just doesn't add up for me.

I think Trayvon was screaming for his life right up until Zimmerman shot him.

[JVS]

365. On the 911 call he made he seemed to have a slight Southern drawl.

[cpwm17]

368. That's true

I noticed that also.

[louis-t]

181. How do you hear an 'accent' in screaming?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

200. Zimmerman says he's white, not Hispanic.

[Lisa D]

337. To my ears

it sounds like the screams of a teenage boy rather than George Zimmerman. I also hear no accent--just a terrified kid.

[cpwm17]

348. Fair enough

In a trial, when in doubt, the advantage goes to the defendant.

Regardless, assuming as I believe that it was GZ screaming, it still doesn't make GZ innocent. GZ acted in a way that was very intimidating to TM – unprovoked. By GZ's own admission, GZ made no effort to make TM feel at ease, such as stating his purpose for following TM.

GZ started the confrontation, even if TM started the fight; and GZ brought a gun, which he then used to kill TM when things quit going his way. That should be a crime.

In a civilized world carrying a gun around a neighborhood should be a crime, but the gun nuts control our laws.

[premium]

53. No bias in this thread at all.

Nobody here has any clue as whether the jury will convict or acquit.
I have my own opinion on his guilt, by my opinion means squat on this case.

We'll all know soon enough.

[itsrobert]

56. You seem upset

that things aren't going Zimmerman's way. Explain why these defense witnesses are credible.

[premium]

63. Upset?

I don't know where you get that, I'm laughing my ass off on all these "experts" here who probably have none to very little experience with the Criminal Justice System beyond watching Law & Order.

[itsrobert]

64. You mean like my 26 years as a police officer?

n/t

[premium]

67. I'll see your 26 years as a LEO

and raise you my 30+ years as a Federal Law Enforcement Officer who has testified in numerous criminal trials.

[itsrobert]

69. But you just said I have none

I didn't question your experience. Did I?

[premium]

74. I never said you specifically, did I?

Let me clarify, most here got their info from shows like Law & Order.

[Just Saying]

97. We're discussing the case as we see it.

And likely as the jury may see it as they are citizens most likely without Leo experience.

Why get on these threads if you think everyone is so beneath you? Honestly, condescension doesn't add to the debate.

[premium]

103. And neither does calling witness' liars

or calling lawyers creepy, skelator.

[Just Saying]

109. They are discussing how they feel about the credibility of the witnesses.

Although I agree with you on the name-calling.

This is a political message board. You're going to get all kinds of opinions.

[premium]

114. True.

And I've been guilty of that myself from time to time.

[Mariana]

99. You were perfectly clear. nt.

[Just Saying]

106. When one makes broad statements about an entire thread.

It's actually not clear who he's directed it at. Perhaps it's better just to debate the issues than to tell everyone in general that they don't know anything?

[itsrobert]

116. Thank you

nt

[premium]

107. Thank you. nt.

[Kingofalldems]

140. How the hell do you know where

people get their information?

[premium]

150. Educated guess judging by most of the comments,

even though they're opinions, which we're all allowed to give.

[Mariana]

96. Premium didn't say anything like that.

He said nothing whatsoever about your particular level of experience. He certainly didn't say you had none.

If you really are in law enforcement, I do hope you don't just make shit up, the way you did here, when you're filling out reports and testifying in court.

[itsrobert]

105. Define the word "all" please

I don't know where you get that, I'm laughing my ass off on all these "experts" here who probably have none to very little experience with the Criminal Justice System beyond watching Law & Order.

Thank you.

[Mariana]

128. "all these "experts" here..."

He didn't say, or mean, all the people on the thread or on the forum. He was talking about all the people with those particular traits, i.e, "experts" with none to very little experience with the Criminal Justice System beyond watching Law & Order.

C'mon, man, this is basic reading comprehension. If you aren't one of the "experts" with none to very little experience with the Criminal Justice System beyond watching Law & Order, then he obviously wasn't talking about you.

[itsrobert]

134. But I don't know their experiences

But he/she does? Seems like he/she is over generalizing. Do you not at least agree on that?

[premium]

151. I'll clarify one more time,

it's my opinion, judging by most of the comments on this trial so far, that most of the people who think that they know what went on that night know very little about how our Criminal Justice System works outside of shows like Law & Order, CSI, etc.

[itsrobert]

154. Excellent

good day, sir.



I said, GOOD DAY!

[premium]

156. You have a good day also.

Finally starting to cool off here, it's only supposed to get to 106.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

205. Just keep keeping it real like you do.

I have noticed much in the same. And I have noticed you use IMO and IMHO in your comments.

And 30 years plus-your input is valuable for those who want to understand the process-or learn something.

[Voice for Peace]

353. Nobody knows what went on that night, regardless of their law enforcement or legal credentials.

You are guessing just as all of us are guessing.

There is no value in demeaning others' opinions
unless they are directed unkindly at you personally.

It doesn't uplift or educate anybody, or help
people see your point of view.

Even if you have that experience, doesn't make you
an authority on this case, any more than myself.

People here are engaged in trying to understand
what happened.

Often people without the baggage of being experts
can see things more clearly than those who are
firmly locked in their I know how it is box.

[riverwalker]

70. jury was bored during both Ostermans

testimonies, according to a reporter Tweeting from court, saw no one taking notes.

[uponit7771]

79. We're not on the jury, People who chase others needlesly with a gun LOSE the benefit of the doubt

...with me

regards

[premium]

85. Maybe with you,

but you nor I have any idea what the jury will think.

[Ninga]

91. I keep thinking that the all female jury - after listen to today's gun lecture by the defense

just might be ready to say "nothing to see here, time to move on"

[premium]

95. How do you know these women aren't gun owners?

After all, this is FL.

[Ninga]

104. I would imagine its possible for all of them to be....and highly responsible gun owners as well...

Does not in any way mean they find this testimony relevant or believable.

In fact, it might be better if they were gun owners!

[premium]

110. Could go the other way also

they may find it relevant and believable, we just don't know at this point.

Regardless, we should know whom they believed, the state or the defense.

[Ninga]

122. Of course. I just think responsible gun owners do not walk around like Zimmerman.

[Ninga]

139. The more this witness keeps trying to minimize Zimmerman's tone and swearing

it sets up a dangerous situation with the jury thinking she is being non-truthful, causing the jury to start thinking yep, it's Trayvon.

[WinkyDink]

167. I agree that time will of course tell, but people like to discuss big cases. Maybe you don't. So?

[premium]

178. I don't mind discussing them,

and I don't mind that others have opinions, I just find it amusing that think most are of the mind set that he's done and the jury is going to convict him, especially people who seem to know little about how our Criminal Justice System works.

How many here were convinced that Casey Anthony was going to be convicted? How many thought that O.J. was gong to be convicted?

I also don't like the name calling of witness' when just about everybody here knows nothing about them, but, that's just me, everyone is allowed their own biases or opinions.

In short, nobody knows what the jury will decide, I have my own opinion due to my observations of how the trial has progressed so far, but I too, could be wrong.

[NatBurner]

57. these gun nuts scare the hell outta me

and i'm a gun owner

i'm more afraid of getting shot by one of these kooks than an actual criminal

if trayvon looked suspicious, then i'd make these damned fools shit their pants

[Ninga]

62. I say, keep playing the screening, keeps sounding younger and younger each time I hear...

[Just Saying]

112. I thought the same thing!

It's possible the more they play it the more the jury will be thinking that, too.

[Ninga]

124. Love your screen name cause you really are Just Saying (too!)

[madaboutharry]

65. I don't see how parading his friends out to claim that it is him screaming

on the tape is helpful. They know him as a friend, not with the intimacy of a familial relationship.

[avebury]

73. If I were on the Jury I would be wondering

when the Defense would present some actual evidence. A parade of friends wouldn't get very far with me.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

82. In a normal prosecution, they wouldn't actually have to present actual evidence.

However, since this is a case where the affirmative defense of self-defense has been raised, the defense has to put forward a plausible argument of self-defense (nothwithstanding the state's burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt).

So it's a fair question from your point.

[uponit7771]

83. +1, especially his "close" friends

[customerserviceguy]

356. The last thing the prosecution put on

as part of their case was TM's mother. The defense HAS to refute that, and give the jury the impression that she's only hearing what she wants to hear. They'll get into meatier witnesses in the next couple of days or so.

[madaboutharry]

72. Uh oh, she is being hostile.

Didn't they tell her not to do that?

[Ninga]

75. O Mara setting up to call Tracy Martin who said that it didn't sound like Trayvon.

But...

How many fathers have EVER heard their child scream for their life in such a bone chilling desperate way? How many fathers - while in shock -!cpu
D believe such a sound could come from their child?

[madaboutharry]

78. Calling Tracy Martin would be a mistake for the defense.

[Ninga]

86. If Tracy is able to articulate the shock - same as the brother did - maybe...

[avebury]

77. Rousseau thinks that Zimmerman was out on

FMLA leave? How on earth could he be out of work that long on FMLA leave? That comment really got my attention. If true, it definitely makes Zimmerman look worse because it would have been a total abuse of that type of leave.

[chelsea0011]

84. what is fmla leave?

[itsrobert]

89. Family Medical and Leave Act?

I think. It would use to take care or assist an immediate family member.

[avebury]

94. Family Medical LeaveAct

Zimmerman's injuries would not even come close to qualifying him for FMLA Leave. I would love to know more about that to determine if fraud was involved.


http://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/



The FMLA entitles eligible employees of covered employers to take unpaid, job-protected leave for specified family and medical reasons with continuation of group health insurance coverage under the same terms and conditions as if the employee had not taken leave. Eligible employees are entitled to:

Twelve workweeks of leave in a 12-month period for:
the birth of a child and to care for the newborn child within one year of birth;
the placement with the employee of a child for adoption or foster care and to care for the newly placed child within one year of placement;
to care for the employee’s spouse, child, or parent who has a serious health condition;
a serious health condition that makes the employee unable to perform the essential functions of his or her job;
any qualifying exigency arising out of the fact that the employee’s spouse, son, daughter, or parent is a covered military member on “covered active duty;” or
Twenty-six workweeks of leave during a single 12-month period to care for a covered servicemember with a serious injury or illness if the eligible employee is the servicemember’s spouse, son, daughter, parent, or next of kin (military caregiver leave).

[uponit7771]

81. Who Zimmermans age would scream so wildly like that!? That doesn't sound like a scream from a 30yr..

...old person

[Ninga]

119. Yes, especially while having to think about what to do...screaming for your life and thinking could

be mutually exclusive activities.... When my son was burned, I had to stop my screaming because I could not think of what to do...I had to make myself calm down, because my brain wasn't working.

[yardwork]

138. While holding the loaded gun.

After tracking the "suspect" and reporting him to authorities and being told that LEO were on their way.

Suddenly the armed man is in terror of his life? The 27 year old 200 pound man who goes to MMA training three times a week? terrified of a 17 year old holding candy?

Pathetic.

[avebury]

100. Just how many "friends" are the Zimmerman

defense team going to trot out? If I were on the jury I would be thinking - "Is this the best that they can do?"

[riverwalker]

123. my thought exactly

like who is the next witness, his mailman?

[madaboutharry]

102. She gave him money and bought him clothes and food,

but she doesn't think it would have a bearing on her testimony.

This testimony is really ridiculous.

[avebury]

108. Does anyone know where you can find the

twitter comments coming out of the courtroom?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

115. There have been comments here with this live feed:

http://wildabouttrial.com/george-zimmerman-live-stream.html

However, no updates over the past hour. Usually they update every couple of minutes.

[Just Saying]

118. You might try searching

#trayvon or other key words.

[riverwalker]

127. this guy is in court

found him just searching keywords #zimmermantrial9 #Zimmerman etc. and see where it goes

@bobkealing

[hedgehog]

111. Someone here pointed out that anyone who screamed like that would likely

do some damage to their voice. Was Zimmerman hoarse or complaining of a sore throat at any point?

(My apologies to the DU'er who pointed this out that I didn't note your name! )

[riverwalker]

137. he did the walk through the next morning

and didn't sound hoarse at all. Incidently, Osterman was there with him for the walk through with the police.

[avebury]

117. Freudian slip?

From Prosecutor - "that Omara paid for" sorry "Omara played for"

[madaboutharry]

130. Amazing how resistant these friends of George Zimmerman all seem

to have hearing problems, except when it comes to identifying the screams.

[uponit7771]

131. It benefits the PA to play these words of Zimmerman

[avebury]

132. How on earth can these witnesses possibly

say (with a straight face) that they don't hear Zimmerman swearing? These witnesses are not doing Zimmerman any good. The Prosecutor is doing a good job at showing that the defense witnesses are full of sh*t.

[Ninga]

133. Keep Playing the tape Bernie! Zimmy's friends are not sound too confident...

[avebury]

135. That is exactly what I just was thinking! nt

[Marrah_G]

136. What strikes me most is the complete disconnect these witnesses have

No one seems the least bit upset that an unarmed teenager was shot while walking home. They listen to the tapes and not one of them shows any recognition that the gun shot heard took a child's life.

Even if my friend killed someone in self defense.... I would STILL be upset that a kid died at that sound.

[Ninga]

144. Keeping digging a hole...I can almost hear the jury think "really"? Matter of fact?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

227. They're bigots. A black kid was murdered. They don't care. There's little value in the humanity of a

black male.

[HipChick]

141. Does'nt the defense have anything but liars to put on the stand today?

[itsrobert]

142. Witness: Calling someone an "asshole" is not ill will

or angry. Says her sons use it all the time.

Probably, those "asshole" liberals.....

[uponit7771]

143. Zimmerman in response to hearing 911 scream for 1st time - "...That doesn't even sound like me..."

Zimmerman didn't recognize it was HIM screaming?!

He was the only one who could be screaming that night, why in the WORLD would he say that?!

regards

[KurtNYC]

198. and the screaming ends when the guns is fired

so if it IS GZ then he is screaming basically "HELP! I'm about to pull the trigger. HELP! I can't stop myself from shooting this kid. HELP!"

[JustAnotherGen]

250. I agree

It would be a crazy scream - but that's what it sounds like to me. If it's George he was definitely saying that.

[JVS]

367. "doesn't even sound like me" is consistent with many people's reactions to hearing their own voices.

http://bodyodd.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/02/17557410-why-you-hate-the-sound-of-your-own-voice?d=1

[uponit7771]

369. Not in that context

[riverwalker]

145. says it was "wind" not running

all defense witnesses say that it was wind, and not Z running on the phone. Wonder if anyone looked into the weather statistics for that night?

[itsrobert]

146. I heard the winds were real light

n/t

[madaboutharry]

147. Here:

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KSFB/2012/2/26/DailyHistory.html

Not very windy at all that night.

I saw this chart on the live feed before court started this morning. I don't see how this would help the defense.

[avebury]

149. IF the defence cannot come up with anything but

numerous "friends" then they can't be coming up with much of a defence. The more "friends" the Defense puts on, the worse things look for the Defendent.

[Ninga]

152. Especially friends with check books that testify that he heard from his attorney clients

that a defendant should be well dressed in order to make a good impression.

[GreenStormCloud]

153. John Donelly, physician's assistant (PA), husband of Leeann Benjamin, up now. N/T

[Marrah_G]

155. Talking about what a day in the life of a combat medic has what to do with this case?

ugh........

[GreenStormCloud]

163. Establish Donnelly's experience.

Experience with the way men sound under extreme stress.

[all american girl]

159. Is he trying to say that George was in combat?

Oh, I don't think so. Now I'm getting annoyed.

[Jim__]

161. I think he's trying to backdoor this guy as an expert on screaming and voice recognition.

[GreenStormCloud]

166. I think that is where he is headed. N/T

[all american girl]

157. I don't understand "Georgie's" friends

None of the listen to what was happening to their friend? None of them listen to the tapes at all? I call hokum. And this friend who bought him clothes for the trial...why couldn't zimmerman's family do that? Doesn't that just seem strange? Are they trying to portray him and his family as being so poor they couldn't afford clothes? Again, hokum.

[avebury]

160. Does anyone know if there is anyone that is tweeting

about jury reactions today? I know someone commented seeing a tweet that the jury seemed bored earlier.

[Ninga]

165. If I were on this jury, after being sequestered for two days, I would be squirming and even

might be losing my patience with how this is droning on and on.....big defense mistake to not limit Georgie's friends to a few genuine sounding witness. Ms Benjamin didn't help him.

Less is more, too much sickeningly sweet.

[avebury]

172. I found @bobkealing on twitter and

read through is tweets today. He indicated (and I would agree) that what is happening is a series of character witnesses being portrayed as fact witnesses.

[Ninga]

173. Liar, liar, pants on fire! Donally testify's that he never discussed the tape with his wife

witness Benjamin.... Who believes that?

[riverwalker]

162. lemme get this straight

Zimmerman friend (Donnally, a PA "litigation expert" and husband of last witness is testifying that because he was a medic in Vietnam he is an expert in ....yelling?
He taught George how to tie a Winsor knot in his tie and was so touched.
Defense is crashing and burning.

[itsrobert]

168. Has Zimmerman been mentally evaluated?

Seems like he has a hard time taking care of himself.

Next witness is going to tell us how he/she wipes Zimmerman's butt after "doo-doo".

[Saturday]

171. This guy deserves an academy award for his acting.

Poor Georgie. Oh wait, he's alive and Trayvon is dead.

[Jim__]

174. Wiping the tear from his eye may have been over the top.

[GreenStormCloud]

351. You've never seen a combat vet tear up over old memories?

He was a medic in Vietnam. He talking about the screams in combat which had to have brought back some very painful memories. He may be mistaken about Z doing the screaming, but I will cut him slack on the tears.

[madaboutharry]

164. None of his friends "listened" closely to the tape because they didn't want to.

Not very credible. I think the jury is going to just ignore all of the testimony about the screaming.

[itsrobert]

177. They tried to not watch/listen to things on purpose

and tried not to pay attention to discussions on television/radio.

Very credible.

[bettyellen]

201. seems like every witness was coached to say that.

[bravenak]

169. He listened to the tape two days ago!

This stinks to high heaven.

[Jim__]

170. Right! Was he scheduled to testify prior to Saturday?

How lucky for the defense that he thinks the voice was Zimmerman's!

[bravenak]

189. I'm not believing this guy.

He seems super coached.

[Ninga]

179. Well he slipped up and said he had heard "parts" of the tape prior...And he and his wife didn't

Talk about the tape.....liar.

[bravenak]

186. Right!

Me and my husband gossip like teenagers. There's no way they just ignored the elephant in the room.

[Ninga]

188. ....says the jury full of women...... :)

[uponit7771]

175. Is the defense filibustering the trial with this crap?! What point are they making?!

[madaboutharry]

180. "Trying to give them information"

That is the same thing this man's wife just said when she testified. But, they didn't "really" talk about the case to each other.

[Saturday]

190. They're making the point that Georgie has lots of odd friends...

and they're all willing to lie for him.

[uponit7771]

193. lol...

[Myrina]

210. Well, according to expert witness Ashley Banfield on CNN:

(paraphrasing) ... "Why did the prosecution only have TWO witnesses claim it was Martin's voice, when the defense keeps bringing ONE after ANOTHER after ANOTHER? Why only TWO? Why can't more people claim it was Martin? Unless it's because it WASN'T Martin!"

.... and her idiot co-host "Try this test, go into a WalMart and yell 'Mom'. See how many heads pop up. Every mother thinks when she hears yelling, it's her child."


What a couple of assclowns they are!!

[avebury]

182. From @bobkealing:

My sense is they have not gotten a lot out of this morning. Refused AM break“@RealJRWilson: @bobkealing What is the main jury reaction?”

bob kealing ?@bobkealing 59m Alternate e-13 just looked at the ceiling while listening to this call-again. A lot of repetition on both sides this morning re calls.

bob kealing ?@bobkealing 1h Zimmerman appears detached this morning; sitting a good distance from Don West. Facing BDLR and jury.

Richard Hornsby ?@RichardHornsby 1h For those wondering, what we are witnessing is parade of #GeorgeZimmerman character witnesses mascaraed as fact witnesses. #zimmermantrialRetweeted by bob kealing

[Ninga]

185. Thx

[Generic Other]

183. He bought all the fancy suits for Zimmerman

$1700 worth of suits. $3000 in donations to the defense fund.

Man is threatening to have a Vietnam flashback on the stand???? OMG.

[yardwork]

191. Meltdown by the dee-fence

[Gin]

184. God...Vietnam is part of this trial...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

194. .......

"God damn you Walter! You fuckin' asshole! Everything's a fuckin' travesty with you, man! And what was all that shit about Vietnam? What the FUCK, has anything got to do with Vietnam? What the fuck are you talking about? "

[JVS]

366. I was thinking the same thing

[Shrek]

195. Saw this tweet

Diana Tennis@TennisLaw

Twitterverse very protective of this witness. If Jury has same opinion of vet veracity and reaction to testimony - very effective witness.

[avebury]

199. I didn't find him to be a very effective witness.

I am turned off when an attorney tries to bring emotion into the trial mix and that is exactly what they did with bringing up the whole Viet Nam history. This guy has poured a lot of money into Zimmerman trying to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

Edit to add: There is a huge difference from hearing men scream in Viet Nam and not hearing Zimmerman scream in anywhere near that type of situation prior to that night. If he had never heard Zimmerman at a time that Zimmerman thought his life was in danger then how does he now that he heard Zimmerman's voice as the screamer? Talk about apples and oranges.

[customerserviceguy]

362. You've heard of "guilt by association"?

O'Mara is trying to establish virtue by association. So far, we've heard a Vietnam veteran and a Federal Sky Marshall testify positively in favor of GZ, and they both knew him personally. Who did the prosecution bring up who trashed Zimmy, or praised the character of Trayvon Martin?

You've got to worry about the jury disliking the defendant if you're his attorney, and this is a way to kill two birds with one stone.

[patrice]

197. Thanks for doing this for those of us who can't bear to watch it myself.

I don't like what Zimmerman's face is doing to my balance.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

204. Apparently, the defense wants to show the jury cartoons:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/08/usa-florida-shooting-idUSL1N0FE0IR20130708?feedType=RSS&feedName=financialsSector&rpc=43

State seeks to halt animated re-enactment of Trayvon shooting

By Barbara Liston

SANFORD, Fla., July 8 | Mon Jul 8, 2013 11:15am EDT

(Reuters) - Prosecutors asked a Florida judge on Monday to block the jury in the George Zimmerman trial from seeing an animated re-enactment of the shooting of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, saying the video distorts the events of that fatal encounter.

Defense lawyers want to show the video to the six-woman jury that will decide the fate of Zimmerman, who is charged with second-degree murder and has pleaded not guilty, saying he shot Martin in self-defense.

State prosecutors argued that the video fails to show the Kel Tec 9mm pistol that Zimmerman, 29, a white and Hispanic neighborhood watch volunteer, used to shoot Martin, 17, once through the heart.

Prosecutors also objected because they said the animation video shows details of the fatal struggle based on the animator's "approximations," including the number of blows during the fight and how each body reacts to those blows.

[avebury]

206. Are they serious!

It would be nothing more then a fairy tale. I wonder when the jury will get fed up with having their time wasted.

[riverwalker]

207. PDF of the motion here

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2013/07/08/animation.pdf

[riverwalker]

208. good lawd, surprised Pixar not involved too

Is based upon data collected when the witness journeyed to the scene of
the murder and instructed two unnamed employees of Defendant's law firm to
don "motion capture" suits while the witness directed them where to position
themselves and what actions to take, again based upon the aforementioned
approximations;

[itsrobert]

240. They could do a movie and Travyon

could be played by Samuel L. Jackson and Zimmerman can be played by Gabriel Iglesias

[uppityperson]

283. Good grief

[JimDandy]

214. A reenactment is something Zimmerman

should be the one to do. If he doesn't take the stand, he shouldn't be allowed to have someone else do a reenactment of the scene. But, but, but judge, he can't do the reenactment because he's too fat play the buff Zimmerman who shot the boy...

And there you have it...another reason why Zimmy was fattened up...so, if he decided to take the stand, he could never be called to reenact what he did and therefore avoid imprinting in the jurors' minds a simulated image of him killing Trayvon.

[avebury]

209. It does look like they are setting it up to call

Trayvon's father to the stand to try to get him to say that it was not Trayvon yelling for help. I think that he was probably a father who was in denial and didn't want to admit that it was his son.

[GreenStormCloud]

212. I don't think that is where they are headed.

At this point, I don't think they want TM's parents on the stand any more.

[avebury]

218. It could set up the Prosecution to put Trayvon's Dad on the stand.

I would have taken his reaction to hearing the tape as No more in the order of OMG No, my son!

If the Dad can get on the stand and deliver really emotional testimony about how he was in such disbelief that his son was dead and how gut wrenching it was to hear the tape - this whole thing was backfire on the Defense.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

224. Surprised they used Serino to get in Martin's words

Wondering what exception to hearsay that would fall under.

But since the prosecution gets a rebuttal case, they'll get to call Martin if they want. Might work in their favor, as it would leave the jury with one of the freshest testimony as the parent of the victim.

[uponit7771]

231. What is a "rebuttal case"? Thx in advance and for your expertise

[Tommy_Carcetti]

235. After the defense rests, the prosecution can present additional witnesses....

...to testify to issues that were raised during the defense case.

It works the same with closing arguments. Prosecution gives its closing statement, then the defense, and then the prosecution gives a rebuttal to the defense's closing argument.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

213. Don't tell me they are looking to call Tracy Martin (Trayvon's dad), are they?

Gee, I'm sure that will make them look just swell....

[LittleBlue]

215. Devastating to the prosecution

His own father said it wasn't Trayvon's voice

[Tommy_Carcetti]

217. And Zimmerman said the voice didn't sound like him.

So without expert testimony, the testimony over whose voice it was by witness recognition is pretty much a wash.

Not really "devastating" for either side. The jurors will just have to use logic as to whose voice they believed it to be.

[LittleBlue]

222. A draw doesn't help the prosecution

The state has to prove murder beyond a reasonable doubt. The prosecution cannot persuade on the assertion that it's Trayvon's voice when his own father says it wasn't. Absolutely devastating.

There's a reason the defense attorney paused after that answer, I could feel the hammer blow through the television.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

226. Prosecution helped bring out the context in cross.

And they can call Tracy Martin in the rebuttal phase of their case, which might actually be to their benefit.

So not as big a deal as you might think.

[customerserviceguy]

357. If the prosecution called Tracy Martin

(and I'm not sure if they can, being as he was not one of the original witnesses when it was their turn) that would expose him to cross examination by O'Mara. While the prosecution could count on TM's mother to be sympathetic, they might not feel that way about Tracy Martin under cross-examination. All he'd have to do is blow up once at O'Mara, and the jury will think, "like father, like son". I'm sure O'Mara's been studying all the ways to push Tracy Martin's buttons, if he had the opportunity.

[uponit7771]

228. But LESS devastating than GZ saying "that doesn't sound like me" when confronted with the screams?!

regards

[LittleBlue]

239. Right, so how does any of this help the prosecution?

That's my question. This voice issue can be summed up thusly:

1) Zimmerman says "that doesn't even sound like me"
2) Trayvon's father says it wasn't Trayvon
3) Travyon's family member didn't object
4) Trayvon's other family said it is Trayvon
5) Zim's family says it is Zim


If I'm on the jury, this whole thing is a wash. But washes help the defense, not the prosecution. The prosecutor needs to convince them beyond a reasonable doubt. How could anyone be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt by this mishmash of testimony?

[uponit7771]

246. Zimmerman should know FIRST HAND it was him screaming for help not TM's dad....Zimmerman is the one

...that said he was screaming for help not TM's father.

That's the reason why that comment SHOULD..>SHOULD be so devisstating to the defense

[Hoyt]

263. Since he says he screamed for help, help, help, I think Zman royally screwed up.

Unless, someone else was screaming, it had to be Martin or Zman. Zman said it wasn't him. I think that is much more damming than Trayvon's dad mumbling it's not Trayvon when he first hears a tape of his son being killed for the first time.

[uponit7771]

219. Zimmerman upon hearing the screams for help - ",....that doesn't even sound like me..."

[avebury]

220. I don't necessarily look at it that way.

I look upon as a devastated father in total denial over his son's death. Think about it, if Trayvon had not been sent to his Dad's place that night he would be alive today. The Dad could be experiencing a boatload of guilt.

[uponit7771]

229. right because Serino is NOT ..NOT being so definative about Tracy saying NO to his questions vs...

...no to the playing of the tape of his son screaming

[uponit7771]

223. Does anyone ELSE have a bad feeling about Serino?! Why is he being so direct in the defenses favor?!

...now it seems like Tracy wasn't very definitive about the answer to the question about his son!!!

Why does that override the "...that doesn't sound like me..." response to the screaming from Zimmerman?!

Serino basically said he didn't pay much attention to that statement from Zimmerman!!!

WTF?

[woolldog]

230. Serino is the one who recommended a manslaughter charge against Zimmerman.

But he does seem more neutral that you'd expect from a police officer. They usually go out of their way to help the prosecution and not to help the defense on the stand.

[uponit7771]

232. ...my understanding is later he said he was pressured by the black LEOs in his PD

[woolldog]

245. interesting....

do you have a link?

Because he sounded awfully skeptical of Zimmerman's story during the interrogations I saw.

[uponit7771]

252. Google key words "Serino pressured to press charges" link inside

http://www.gopusa.com/news/2013/07/02/sanford-investigator-testifies-black-officers-pressured-him-to-file-charges-against-zimmerman/

[woolldog]

258. Thanks. nt

[HeroInAHalfShell]

262. do they?? that sounds a little corrupt to me...

sounds like the defense is ALWAYS guilty in their minds...

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

233. Because it's collusion. The police fucked up and now need Zimmerman to cover their own mistakes.

Zimmerman should have been arrested and charged. Something happened to that crime scene. I believe that there is a great deal of collusion. That's why the cops are helping Zimmerman. They have a stake in this case. They could be sued for misconduct and negligence.

[uponit7771]

238. +1, they drug tested the dead person but NOT the shooter, that goes towards their whole mind

...set and the reaoson why TM's mother is really upset

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

264. Martin's father didn't have Crump there to advise him I would guess.

As far as accents go ,voices are altered sometimes without the awareness of the speaker.
Take the British accent for example- you may have noticed in many cases it is not there when the musician is singing-it being the British accent , oh, Elton John or Paul McCartney examples. Some people can alter their voice at will ,others cannot. Most actors can.

Every person processes a high pitch sound usually expressed through fear of something terrible about to happen that is imminent ,or say in battle such as a sword having been lunged through the body .On the part of the second ,it may only happen once.

Person's who lose an accent ,say because their locality changes ,example somebody from Alabama moving to southern California -eventually the Alabama accent isn't there anymore.
The voice in the manner of speaking ,-changes.
A traumatic experience can change or alter a voice in a matter of an instant.

That's the key.

Lastly ,I happened to notice that neither Martin's mother nor Zimmerman's mother claimed that one or the other definitively knew that voice because when one or the other was about to be punished by being spanked or in the olden days back in the last century sometimes a strap was used when the child was very bad -,the child's voice came on in just that way when he was little. Or after having fallen off of a tricycle or fallen out of a tree -regarding sound of the voice on the recording. There was no point of reference with regards to a point to fact by either
Zimmerman's mother or Martin's mother.

I really don't think the jury will lend much credibility to either testimony about who thinks who it was. Going with the science is the best way to go on that one.

[woolldog]

225. The bald headed prosecutor,

Bernard I think is his name, is just awful.

[uponit7771]

234. "...doesn't even suonds like me ...", Serino was NOT definative about that HURTING Z but Martins wor

....words go to Z's favor!?

Come on...soemthings wrong here

[uponit7771]

236. Serino " ... it was someone just hearing their own voice...", doesn't accept that to be a denial !?!

WTF!?!?!?

Why would someone make a comment liek that in that situation!?!!?!?

[avebury]

241. It is really hard to believe that Serino was a Detective at the time.

I would really question Serino's credibility.

[uponit7771]

244. Yeap, and a comment like what Z said would've been jumped on later. The context was around ...

...z being smothered by TM...Serino basically said he doesn't see where TM smothered Z and Z replied "...that doesn't even sound like me..." as a defense and NOT some errant comment.

WTF is wrong with Serino!?

[uponit7771]

242. PUT HIS HEAD DOWN AND WAS CRYING DURING ANSWER!? They guy was distraught!? They didn't ask

...the question again?!

[uponit7771]

243. BOTH detectives are VERY definitive in favor of the defense!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

268. Methinks it's guilt. Guilt that he has to lie for Zimmerman. Guilt that an unarmed black kid is dead

[Tommy_Carcetti]

269. I think the poster is referring to Tracy Martin.

Obviously he wasn't in a proper state when the question was asked.

I'm certain now he'll be called on the state's rebuttal and will help add some proper context behind his answer.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

306. Thanks. I hope so.

[avebury]

247. It is appalling that the Detectives are so willing to cut

Zimmerman slack on his statement that it was not his voice but are so sure that a devastated parent was obviously saying it was not his son's voice.

I am so tired of Zimmerman getting such a free ride in this trial with the victim is the one actually being put on trial.

[uponit7771]

249. AMEN!! Also, according to Serino Z was responding to his "smothering" Claim being challenged at the

...time and it wasn't just some errant statement

Screw Serino...

I don't trust him now....he said the "sound like me" statement was he response of someone hearing their voice....that's BS...the line of questioning had NOTHING do with just some comment around Z's voice

[itsrobert]

251. Obviously they had no bias

by all the drug test they made Zimmerman give.

Oh wait, they didn't.

[WinkyDink]

248. First this gym guy goes "Mm-hmm," then he says "Absolutely." YES or NO, Nitwit.

[WinkyDink]

253. I can't listen to this def. lawyer. I can't figure out what this gym guy is intended to prove.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

257. I guess it's that he was a crappy teacher and/or Zimmerman was a crappy student?

I don't know.

I don't see how this helps Zimmerman.

This entire day has been a waste. First the random parade of Zimmerman's friends, then allowing hearsay testimony as to Tracy Martin's statements without a proper context, and now this guy.

Oh wait, the gym guy's gonna kick O'Mara's ass now. Maybe there is a point to today after all...

[Hoyt]

287. To me, Zimmerman trained to beat the hell out of someone, or shoot them if that wasn't working for

him.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

254. Not sure where the defense is going here.

It's hard to ignore that Zimmerman had some form of MMA training and he was not a helpless little daisy on that night.

[uponit7771]

256. Front loading like the PA did? I think they'er trying to frame the MMA training because to me it ...

...doesn't make sense that a 200lb man with 3 times a week mma training and a gun can beat up a 150-ish lb 11th grade kid....so they're trying to frame the first punch being the most devastating

[GreenStormCloud]

259. The defense is heading towards showing that Z was still a fat slob.

At least I think that is their intent.

[uponit7771]

261. lol, When i saw Z's enactment he looked pretty fit to me...didn't look like he was all over the plac

[TorchTheWitch]

281. why would they do that?

He could have been a quadriplegic and he'd STILL have far exceeded Martin in advantage - Zimmerman had the gun and Martin had no weapon.

After the defense harping on Martin's height trying to make it appear that it was Martin that was the big guy of the two they'd be a million times the fools for turning that on it's head and suddenly it was Zimmerman that had all the body mass advantage. Then again, they manage to go out of their way to look like fools.

[uponit7771]

255. According to Zimmermans FP Zimmerman trained MMA 3 times a week!!

[itsrobert]

266. I didn't know Zimmerman's MMA trainer was Paul Ryan

n/t

[Ninga]

260. oh boy, stuck in a doctors waiting room and reading this is making me sick. My blood pressure will

be through the roof.

[uponit7771]

267. A YEAR OF MMA TRAINING?! He got beat up after a YEAR of MMA and BOXING training?!

[avebury]

270. OK what on earth was Zimmerman doing 3 hours a day

3 days a week?

When I have been in serious gym mode (and I am not an athlete) I would have made a ton of progress in one year. If this guy is insinuating that Zimmerman did not achieve much in one years time then he needs to be giving Zimmerman back his money.

This guy is not a good advertisement for his gym.

[all american girl]

296. I call BS.....this guy is comparing zimmerman to a person who has been well trained for years.

In feb 2012, I started working out 3 days a week, about 1 hour each. When I started, when I punched my son (18 years old) in the arm, he would laugh at me. By June, he was complaining that I was hurting him....he was a bit proud of his mommy . The workouts that I was doing was Zumba twice a week and aerobic boxing kicking thingy class....

In a year, he was never going to be at a competitive level, but he was going to be in much better physical shape.

[Marrah_G]

273. I know right?

My son does Kempo and MMA, or at least he did up until a couple years ago when he started college. I can't imagine how incompetant a gym has to be if someone goes for a year, 3 days a week and can't get an unskilled teenage boy off of him.

I think this witness will backfire on them.

[HeroInAHalfShell]

289. so your son was out of shape and didnt know anything about MMA and learned it all in a year

and is nothing but muscle right now?

I don't get your point?

[Marrah_G]

297. That's not even close to what I said.

A year of MMA, 3 times a week, 6 hours a week should leave someone with enough skill to be able to get out from under a much smaller opponent with no fight training at all.

[HeroInAHalfShell]

299. so you would put anyone in that workout and expect a certain result?

how in shape does a person look after a year of MMA?


BTW wasn't it said that he took a couple months off? so it wasn't a full year?

[Marrah_G]

308. I've seen even those not in great shape learn basic skills in less time

In fact, I never saw anyone who was committed to training not learn basic skills.

I'm just not buying the story. Period.

[HeroInAHalfShell]

313. would you say that losing 90lbs in about a year is good?

[uponit7771]

340. +1 on the basics...especially training 3 days a week 2 - 3 hours a day!!!

[uponit7771]

339. Almost a year Z was IN SHAPE and knew more than Trayvon Martin did!

[uponit7771]

338. Hopefully, 10 months of MMA and LITTLE to NO progress!?!

[avebury]

271. How on earth can a person work out 3 hours a day, 3 days a week for a year

and not get into some type of shape?

[HeroInAHalfShell]

272. bad eating habits.

[Incitatus]

363. From the photos it appears his real eating problems occured after the charges were filed.

He didn't look the out of shape person he does now.

[GreenStormCloud]

275. According to the trainer...

...he improved, lost a lot of weight, but still had a huge way to go. He went from a 1/2 to a 1 on a scale of 0 to 10.

[uponit7771]

277. 1 is 100% better than no training at all

[Saturday]

291. According to Mr. cocky trainer.

After all, no one is in as great as shape as him. *eyeroll*

[GreenStormCloud]

294. Please show where the trainer said that. N/T

[uponit7771]

279. Sounds like Z got into good shape but his training is saying he sucked at training

[Tommy_Carcetti]

274. So today we've heard from Zimmerman's sugar daddy and the world's worst MMA trainer ever.

I guess the defense is attempting to skate on the prosecution's case and are just buying time to write the closing argument?

[GreenStormCloud]

276. No. They are setting up that TM would be able to knock Z down.

And that Z would be able to "shrimp" and get to his gun while TM is on top of him.

[uponit7771]

278. +1, yes...1 year of MMA trainging...3 hours a week and Z was still a 1?! Yeap, he's stank

[HeroInAHalfShell]

280. if a 1 is bad for a year of training, what should his number be after a year of training?

[uponit7771]

282. depends on how dedicated the person, 1 is still 100% better than 0..tm had zero training

[HeroInAHalfShell]

285. even with a lot of dedication, results take time. Doesn't just happen over night.

But you are correct, at least he was an active person. Better than a bunch a lazy people who eat horrible food.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

286. Just like love.

Love takes time.

[itsrobert]

284. And he does not encourage for people to work out at home by themselves

or go for a run.

okey dokey.

[avebury]

288. Zimmerman sure picked the wrong gym.

He might have been out of shape and overweight but it is amazing that he made so little progress in one year. I wonder if he paid a flat fee or had to pay by the class. Paying by the class would have encouraged the gym to drag things out.

And remember - this is a guy that wanted to be a cop!

I studied karate when I was in my 20s. Warmups, form and sparring were all a part of the classes from Day 1. I am in no way an athlete but by working hard I had my brown belt within a year and a half because I loved it and had so much fun. You progress by being challenged to grow in your skill not by being babied. I always wanted to work out with people who were a lot better the I was.

[uponit7771]

292. +1, I don't believe for a SECOND this guy let him go .5 in a year. Either way it's better than the..

...training TM got which was zero

[HeroInAHalfShell]

301. Have you ever wrestled with your friends?

you don't need training to be able to take someone down and hit them...

[HeroInAHalfShell]

293. do you think his metabolism may play a factor in this?

maybe your metabolism is faster than his? maybe you eat better than him? These factors vary for everyone. 2 people can do the same workout but that doesn't mean that will get the same results.

[Nevernose]

316. 300 hours

And never learned to throw a punch. The next trial should be Zimmerman suing to get his money back.

[uponit7771]

290. 1 year of MMA trainng and boxing > zero, don't beieve for a SECOND now Z was beat up by 150lb

...skinny 11th grade kid

[HeroInAHalfShell]

295. well it wasn't a full year, he did take a couple months off..

9-10 months of MMA training at 3 days a week, not every day either..

I've seen small, light(not heavy) people run circles around bigger people and take them down. Big trees fall hard. Small and quick can do a lot against big and slow.

just from what I have seen.

[uponit7771]

298. Yes, TRAINED people...Trayvon was not trained for 10 months and 2-3 days a week... TM was a skinny

...150lbn 11th grade teenager

[HeroInAHalfShell]

300. I never said I saw a TRAINED smaller person take down a TRAINED bigger person...

I said I have seen smaller people take down bugger people. period.

[uponit7771]

303. True, I have too... I coachd for a while...the kid who trained 95% of time had the advantage over...

...the one who didn't

[HeroInAHalfShell]

307. 5%.. so you're saying there's a chance(Jim Carrey reference)

[uponit7771]

310. Of course, there's always a chance of something. Not PROBABLE but anything is possible.

[GreenStormCloud]

312. TM was 158 lbs and a 10th grader.

He was not doing well in school.

[uponit7771]

314. My understanding was his grades were good, he got suspended for stuff like graffiti and being late

...to school....overall wasn't a bad kid relatively speaking

[1monster]

349. A 3.75 GPA is not doing well in school?! You only need a 3.5 to be Dean's List.

[all american girl]

302. No, he went from Oct to around Nov time frame, and then took off for a couple of months.

[uponit7771]

305. True, he trained around 10months before he killed Trayvon with a gun

[HeroInAHalfShell]

317. I see what you did there.

[GreenStormCloud]

304. Will the jury believe the trainer?

They are setting up to have TM knock Z down and get on top of him. First punch extremely powerful - often decides the fight. Mount, ground & pound - extremely difficult to get out of unless you are highly trained. "Shrimping" may have enable Z to get some freedom with his hips. The trainer is saying that Z was still soft.

They are setting themselves up to introduce TM as a young street-fighting thug with a chip on his shoulder.

That is going to be very difficult for the prosecution to counter.

[uponit7771]

309. They can't, if Z was knocked down where he said he was sucker punched there's no way TM ended

...up 50 ft away from the "T" where his car was.

Z said TM sucker punched him at the T...

TM's body was 50ft away from the T

[GreenStormCloud]

315. That is an entirely different question.

The trainer is only addressing Z's physical skills, not locations.

[avebury]

318. The prosecutor should have ended his

cross examination something along the lines of:

Well that would explain why Mr. Zimmerman felt a need to carry a gun.

[GreenStormCloud]

322. The defense would have loved it. N/T

[avebury]

324. If it is the position of Zimmerman's defense team

that Zimmerman was incapable of defending himself it makes it far more likely that Zimmerman had his gun out when the tracked Martin and more likely that he jumped the gun and shot Trayvon. Zimmerman wasa the agressor from the first moment.

[uponit7771]

331. good point...

[frylock]

347. refresh my memory. which of the two had priors for assault?

[GreenStormCloud]

350. Irrelevant to the question asked.

The trainer testifed that Z was physically soft. He did not testify about priors. In fact, I don't thing Z's priors have been raised in the trial.

[customerserviceguy]

360. They would only be raised

if GZ himself got on the stand. That's not going to happen.

[HeroInAHalfShell]

311. wow. 90lbs in almost a year isnt too bad..

[Tommy_Carcetti]

319. Wow. The defense gone and done it.

They are calling Tracy Martin.

Should be interesting to see how this turns.

[madaboutharry]

321. I don't get this.

[HeroInAHalfShell]

325. Isn't it good that Tracy Martin gets to say that he didn't say no?

instead of everyone just hearing that he supposedly said no that wasn't his son.

[madaboutharry]

327. What I mean is that I don't get the defense calling him.

[HeroInAHalfShell]

329. oh ok.

[GreenStormCloud]

333. I am very surprised about it.

I think that will be a major mistake for the defense.

[avebury]

320. I cannot believe Omara has the gall! nt

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

334. Why are you surprised? He went after Sybrina and didn't even blink an eye! SICK FUCK!!

[avebury]

335. I think it ended up working for the Prosecution

so Omara really didn't gain anything from it.

Edit to add: The only thing that would have made it sweeter is if they could have ended court today after Tracy was on the stand so that the Jurors could think about his testimony all night long.

[GreenStormCloud]

352. That is his job.

He has to present the most vigorous defense possible. That means he can't soft-pedal a prosecution witness.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

364. Of course that's his job. I'm not disputing that. He's still a sick fuck!

He and his lying, murdering client.

[uponit7771]

323. WTF is this about?! Tracy NEVER EVER said he said that was NOT TM's voice

[avebury]

326. Tracy is holding up very well.

I think that he is credible and stoic. Omara is not going to get any kind of a victory out of this.

[uponit7771]

328. True, I'm REALLY REALLY not liking Serino at this point. Do you know if he was demoted?! Don't under

...stand his motivation at thsi point other than covring his butt

[avebury]

332. Who is hear is thinking that Omara was sitting there

thinking "Oh sh*t, why did I do that?"

[Hoyt]

345. Maybe defense attorney is tired of the smug, lying, murdering, sack of dung.

[GreenStormCloud]

336. I don't see that the defense accomplished anything calling Mr. Martin.

Bad move on their part.

[Lurks Often]

344. Maybe not

1. By calling him as a witness, they get to control when he testifies, better now (for the defense) then on the last day of testimony.
2. Right now the defense is calling into question the manner of how the voice id was done by Martin's family in that it was not done by the police and it was not done in a manner recommended by the police chief and FBI expert.
3. Laying groundwork to imply that the entire trial is politically motivated since the City Manager and/or Mayor are not normally involved in police work.

They also deposed Ben Crump over the weekend. Did Crump say something that will allow the defense to bring into evidence something that would cast serious doubt on the testimony of Martin's family or Rachel?

[uppityperson]

341. WOULD YOU START A NEW THREAD AS THIS ONE IS TOO LONG TO DOWNLOAD?

Thanks.

[madaboutharry]

342. agree

[avebury]

346. Omara needs to remember that Zimmerman IS NOT a

law enforcement officer.

Edit to add:

Omara wants to have a guy testify about how LEOs react to incidents like this. As I said, Zimmerman is not a LEO.

Evidently the Jury cannot be relied up on to use common sense.