Will we be blamed for the coup in Egypt?

[East Coast Pirate]

Last edited Sat Jul 6, 2013, 09:07 AM - Edit history (1)

We've been funding their army for years and you know we didn't want the Muslim Brotherhood in power.

Conservative Muslim Egyptians are furious about this and will only get angrier as it sinks in that they lost their chance to rule Egypt. That anger most likely will be focused on the U.S. before long. This may sound like a conspiracy theory to some but everyone knows we back the Egyptian army.

I'm not sorry to see the Muslim Brotherhood out of power. They would have been very oppressive toward anyone who didn't fall in line. They would have been every bit as bad as Iran. But that doesn't change the fact that the U.S. is pulling the strings in the Middle East. (When that happened to us in the 18th century we responded with violence. Of course when we did it, it was justified.)

Don't forget that Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's mentor, and Ali Mohamed (the guy who actually planned 9/11) are Egyptian. This is a very dangerous situation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Mohamed

[backscatter712]

1. Given the millions of people who were in the streets and Tahrir Square supporting this revolution...

I can't say I find it in me to complain very much about this.

Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood overreached, started oppressing women, Coptic Christians, etc. etc., and the people finally said "Hey, we didn't vote for another asshole to bring the same shit Mubarak did!"

But yeah, the Muslim Brotherhood's back underground, and they're likely to start using insurgent tactics. I doubt they'll have much popular support though.

[dipsydoodle]

6. doubt they'll have much popular support though.....

other than maybe 50% of the population.

[pampango]

19. Prior to the first round of the 2012 election Morsi was polling at around 10%. He then won 24.78%

of the vote. He won in the second round 51.7% to 48.3%.

It is unfortunate that the liberal candidate, Hamdeen Sabahi, finished third (barely by 24% to 21%) to Ahmad Shafiq (backed by the military) missing the final round of the election.

Here is a report from Juan Cole written while the counting of the first round votes was still going on.

As I write it is mid-afternoon on Friday, and there is a reported surge for the leftist candidate, Hamdeen Sabahi. He is now said to be in second place, ahead of former Aviation Minister and Air Force General Ahmad Shafiq. Sabahi won big in Alexandria, which had been trending fundamentalist, but which is a modern Mediterranean port city with a big, organized working class, who appear to have swung to him (perhaps along with a lot of government workers and the secular middle class, along with committed revolutionaries). Al-Nil television’s correspondent is reporting as I speak that Sabahi also took Port Said, a smaller port city.

If Sabahi can maintain his narrow lead over Ahmad Shafiq, the resulting run-off will give Egyptians a choice between a leftist secularist and a Muslim fundamentalist, both of them from the opposition to Mubarak.

If Shafiq can pull back ahead of Sabahi, the resulting election would be a huge catastrophe for Egypt. If Egyptians have to decide between Mursi and Shafiq, they’ll have a stark choice. They could give the Muslim Brotherhood two of the major branches of civilian government and risk a swift move to Islamic law and one-party dominance. They could split the ticket and support the secular Shafiq, who is very much a creature of the old regime and of the Egyptian military.

A Mursi-Sabahi contest, in contrast, will be much smoother, though still contentious. Sabahi was a steadfast foe of Mubarak, and was involved in the key Kifaya! (enough) movement of 2004 and after, which laid the foundations for the revolution. As a critic of imperialism and of Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians, he might have some support from some of the Muslim fundamentalists who focus on that issue. And his insistence on social justice obviously has wide appeal across ideological groups.

Egyptian voters in a Mursi-Sabahi match-up would have a real choice between a pluralistic system and a return to virtually one-party rule. They’d have a choice between Muslim Brotherhood emphasis on private property/Turkish-style Neoliberalism and a more socialist policy (a la Hollande in France, perhaps). And in any case, both candidates would have a claim on opposition to the old Mubarak regime, and so an extreme polarization and “a further revolution”, as promised by the New Left, could be avoided.

http://www.juancole.com/2012/05/egypts-presidential-election-between-revolution-and-counter-revolution.html

Cole was right. The final round choice between the Brotherhood's Morsi and a candidate aligned with the overthrown Mubarak regime was a disaster and allowed Morsi to squeak out a 51-49 win.

Egyptians never got the final round choice between a "leftist secularist" and a "Muslim fundamentalist"', a "Muslim Brotherhood emphasis on private property/Turkish-style Neoliberalism and a more socialist policy." Morsi was either very lucky to face the most flawed candidate possible (and barely beat him) or he should have been thankful that the military's candidate enjoyed a late (legitimate?) surge in the first round to give the military a candidate in the final round.

Morsi was fairly elected and his overthrow is a terrible precedent for Egypt's democratic future. His popularity does not need to be exaggerated, however. He was polling at around 10% before the election, surprisingly to some got almost 25% in the first round and then barely beat a candidate widely associated with the hated Mubarak. Morsi was fortunate to be facing another flawed conservative in the final round. We will never know whether he would have been defeated by the leftist candidate.

[warrant46]

2. Never use a bee hive as a Pinata

LOL

[cali]

3. unlikely. and you don't provide so much as a shred of evidence

let alone proof.

[KansDem]

4. If we get another president who is friends and business partners...

...with the Saudi Royal Family, I could see an increased risk. The long and short of it is, we are fast becoming a world pariah with third-world countries and now our allies in Europe.

I'm a bit confused by this statement: When that happened to us in the 16th century we responded with violence. Of course when we did it, it was justified.

Did you mean "18th century?"

[East Coast Pirate]

5. I did mean 18th.

Not enough coffee. I'll fix that.

[Squinch]

7. All the "I have no reason to think this but what if...?" threads are pretty wildly irresponsible.

[East Coast Pirate]

9. Isn't this a discussion forum?

I don't know everything and sometimes learn more by being proven wrong than by being proved right.

How is this thread irresponsible? I'm not calling for another 9/11. I was pretty angry when the last one happened. But since Ali Mohamed (the man who planned 9/11) worked for our military, the FBI, the CIA and the Egyptian Islamic Jihad simultaneously, maybe we should speculate about where we're headed now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Mohamed

[Squinch]

10. I have no reason to think this, but what if the Egyptian protests were started by UFO's?

Or Beanie Babies that came to life and grew and grew and grew till they were giants??? Huh??? What if that???

If you think there's something there, find it and then post. Otherwise you're blowing smoke.

[East Coast Pirate]

16. I changed it.

Happy now?

[Squinch]

17. If you felt you needed to change it, why are you snarking at me?

[East Coast Pirate]

18. Because you were snarking at me.

Women...

[Squinch]

22. Good lord. "Are you happy now?" indicates you think someone else caused your actions.

Which is ridiculous.

Either you changed your post because you got my point and realized your post was irresponsible, or you disagreed with me, in which case you shouldn't have changed your post.


Oddly enough, I just had a very similar conversation with a 10-year-old when we were discussing personal responsibility.

[East Coast Pirate]

23. Espresso or French Roast?

I'm going with espresso.

[Squinch]

24. And this, DU readers, is what passes for discourse these days. So sad.

[East Coast Pirate]

25. Last word.

[RudynJack]

11. Yes it is a discussion forum

which means people can rightly call out ridiculously stupid, mindless posts.

[East Coast Pirate]

13. Yes, questioning authority is always mindless and stupid.

[RudynJack]

14. Not always.

But sometimes.

[dembotoz]

8. lets hope no smoking guns appear--real or manufactured

I do like the beehive as a piñata analogy

wow and the spell check did the little squiggle thing on top of the n


some parts of the world will blame the us no matter what--easier to blame us than to say you fell out of favor in your own country

[East Coast Pirate]

15. That was pretty much my point.

They will blame us.

[JoePhilly]

12. And what about Naomi?

[dipsydoodle]

20. What about her ?

[JoePhilly]

31. Exactly ... what if SHE started the coup?

As long as we're speculating.

[Squinch]

27. Will YOU break the chair????

[Duckwraps]

21. I would think radical Islam will blame us. Why not? nt

[Trajan]

26. Who the fuck is 'we' ? ...

If 'we' includes ME then 'we' did nothing of the sort ...

These kinds of blanket generalizations are patently ridiculous ...

[East Coast Pirate]

28. Them.

[Baclava]

29. Why not. It seems "We" already were blamed - for putting the Muslim Brotherhood in power

[Catherina]

30. On the contrary. They were not very impressed with our statements and actions

that supported Morsi.