BOOM: Austria says Morales' plane landed for fuel and audio from the plane confirms it (hahahaha)

[Cali_Democrat]

Last edited Thu Jul 4, 2013, 03:10 PM - Edit history (1)

Austrian narrative: They landed for fuel, we searched with permission

According to Austrian statements, flight FAB-001 requested permission to land in Vienna because the pilots believed they might not have had sufficient fuel. Austrians say they searched the plane with Morales’ permission and checked the passports of all passengers, but called this “routine.”


The flight crew’s narrative: We were low on fuel

Audio purportedly taken from FAB-001?s calls to Vienna air traffic control (more on the source and verifiability of the audio here) seem to have the flight crew requesting permission to land either because they were low on fuel or due to an indicator problem.“We need to land because we cannot get a correct indication of the fuel indication – we need to land,” the pilot or co-pilot says in the audio.

Austrian statements also indicated that the flight had requested to land because it was unsure if it had enough fuel.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/07/03/evo-morales-controversial-flight-over-europe-minute-by-heavily-disputed-minute/

Sorry, Evo Morales wasn't kidnapped and he wasn't held hostage because of evil Barack Obama.

Let me guess...it's not about the fuel, right?



Edit to add flamingdem's point by point debunking of Evogate:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023168312

^^^^good stuff^^^^

[Warren Stupidity]

1. Authoritarian talking point with rofl.

How unusual.

[Cali_Democrat]

3. Posting information about a plane landing for fuel is very authoritarian, isn't it

[morningfog]

26. The reason for landing has never been at issue.

They needed fuel because they were not permitted to land in Portugal/Spain/France to refuel. It was always claimed that they needed to land in Austria to refuel.

[Junkdrawer]

36. ^^^^ THIS ^^^^

The OP is taking a know facet of the story and making it sound as if it refutes Evo's account.

Pathetic.

[Cali_Democrat]

44. Oh you again....you sure have been following me around DU lately

Weren't you the one saying Morales was held hostage?

From the article.

A photo from inside the plane during the stop-over shows Morales smiling next to his Austrian counterpart, President Heinz Fischer.

Sounds like a brutal hostage situation.

[Logical]

70. "BOOM", are you 10 years old? n-t

[HooptieWagon]

82. Congnitvely and emotionally, obviously. nt

[morningfog]

95. You are being generous.

[sheshe2]

105. Boom!

You are making shit up!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023164689#post12

Flashback Obama: 'Not going to be scrambling jets' to get Snowden (Oops!)



Obama, who appeared concerned that the case would overshadow a three-country tour of Africa that he began in Senegal, also dismissed suggestions that the United States might try to intercept Snowden if he were allowed to depart Moscow by air.

"No, I'm not going to be scrambling jets to get a 29-year-old hacker," he told a news conference in Dakar. Snowden turned 30 last week.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-06-27/news/sns-rt-us-usa-security-snowdenbre95q0sw-20130627_1_president-xi-jinping-yang-yujun-president-barack-obama

I guess he changed his mind.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023164689

[morningfog]

88. Don't flatter yourself.

His plane was not permitted to take off until he consented to the search.

[KittyWampus]

92. Sorry, but the flight path was direct and only doubled back in Austria.

[Iliyah]

57. They have audio from the pilot

to Traffic Controller.

But alas, the naysayers will never believe it because it goes against what they want to believe in that the US is plain evil and the worst country in the whole wide world.

[Swagman]

74. yet the French president says you are wrong

but maybe he and President Morales just hate America. That must be it.

[Cha]

59. Ooooh, you got called an "authoritarian"!

Don't ya know.. it's "authoritarian" to post facts? That suppose to stifle the discussion?

[Warren Stupidity]

106. actually the talking point was described as authoritarian.

[kardonb]

78. gen. disc.

all this phony outrage BUSTED AGAIN . HAHAHA

[Cali_Democrat]

85. Indeed

[gcomeau]

4. They have the flight control audio genius. -eom

[emulatorloo]

19. But you are a Nazi!

Stop letting facts get in the way of Stupidity's knee jerking.

[Warren Stupidity]

108. all nazis are authoritarians, not all authoritarians are nazis.

other than that you made a valid inference.

[Warren Stupidity]

107. what is a flight control audio genius?

if it is like the genius on my itunes app it is fucking useless.

Oh, by the way, those fucking french went out and spoiled this particular line of bullshit. You all really need to move on to the next memo.

[Union Scribe]

96. That's their signature.

But I've come to realize it isn't a ROFL guy. It's someone in the phase between when the koolaid goes down and when they get zapped up to the comet.

[KamaAina]

2. They were low on fuel because

they kept getting denied permission to enter several European airspaces, so they had to keep circling around. Private planes don't have the range of a 747.

[Cali_Democrat]

5. Sure...keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. n/t

[KamaAina]

8. Why else would they have been low?

Austria isn't that far from Russia.

[Cali_Democrat]

46. The plane needs to fly back to Bolivia, right?

They thought they could have been having fuel indicator problems.

[KamaAina]

47. They would have had to refuel somewhere

which was part of the problem.

[Cali_Democrat]

50. Ya...they were over Austria and landed in Austria. n/t

[Gore1FL]

33. They circled for hours as I understand it. n/t

[Cali_Democrat]

42. Look at the flight path at the link

They turned back and landed in Vienna, they didn't circle.

[Gore1FL]

69. They showed that flight path on TRMS last night

when she said they circled 3 hours.

I don't know how to read the flight path. I only know what I saw reported:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908/#52380415

[Mojorabbit]

89. I saw the same report. nt

[maddezmom]

6. Not according to the map that accompanies the audio at the link.

[KamaAina]

17. But it did circle back

perhaps they didn't have enough fuel to get back to Moscow.

[maddezmom]

21. It was almost to Innbruck when it circled

Not sure why they didn't just go forward, request to land there if they were having problems with the fuel or fuel gauge.

[KamaAina]

24. It was nearing Italian airspace

Note how Italy is notably absent from the list of countries that did or did not grant permission in the various media accounts, which focus on France, Spain and Portugal.

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. It's in some media - eg the BBC reporting the Bolivian complaint to the UN

Bolivia has accused European countries of an "act of aggression" for refusing to allow its presidential jet into their airspace, amid suggestions US fugitive Edward Snowden was on board.

Bolivia said France, Italy, Spain and Portugal had blocked the plane.

President Evo Morales was flying back to Bolivia from Moscow when the plane was forced to stop in Vienna.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23158242

[KamaAina]

49. The BBC is still real media

not at all like our corporate M$M.

[Gore1FL]

34. TRMS said they circled for hours

If memory serves, I think she said "over 3."

[maddezmom]

35. I am just looking at the map on the link with the flight path

[BlueCheese]

12. I agree. I don't see how the Austrian and Bolivian accounts disagree.

This doesn't mean the Bolivian account is necessarily true, of course. Clearly something caused them to turn around and land in Vienna. I'm willing to bet they genuinely thought they weren't allowed to fly through France, Spain, and Portugal. Were they mistaken? The French denial sounds a little too careful, and not the categorical denial one would like.

[morningfog]

27. It may turn on the "air space use" vs. "land to refuel."

[Gore1FL]

38. One led to the other.

They circled for 3 hours, and had no direct path which would have consumed even more fuel.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908/#52380415

[Mojorabbit]

90. The french have apologized. nt

[eissa]

7. LIES!

Clearly Obama and his evil goons at the NSA have captured the flight's audio and doctored it. Any fool could see that. Down with the evil tyrant! I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!!

[Tarheel_Dem]

41. "I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!!!"

Where have we heard that?

[zappaman]

48. "It's the end of the American empire!"

"This is an act of war!!!!"

[Tarheel_Dem]

51. Firebaggery sucks!

[CakeGrrl]

77. The "Evil Obama Empire" is the answer to every thing that happens anymore

Remote controlled cars, grounded planes across the world...

Don't go to FR for the "Obama Body Count" - it will be enthusiastically posted here soon.

[Gravitycollapse]

9. If this is true, then I certainly made a mistake in my support.

[Enrique]

10. why do you believe Austria and not Bolivia?

if it's not racism, what other explanation could there be?*


*this is a PARODY of an argument made here regarding Obama.

[cali]

11. So President Morales is a liar?

[pnwmom]

13. Or he was misinformed. n/t

[cali]

15. uh, he was there. and the plane was searched.

[pnwmom]

20. The plane landed for fuel. It wasn't forced to land. And there's this:

from the article at the OP:

"Bolivian statements all seem to agree that the plane was searched by Austrian officials while in Vienna. But some – though not all – have hinted that they may not have agreed to the search. The country’s UN ambassador called the search illegal and an act of aggression, but this line has not been repeated as widely as other complaints. A photo from inside the plane during the stop-over shows Morales smiling next to his Austrian counterpart, President Heinz Fischer.

From there, Bolivians say, Spain said it would allow the flight to refuel in the Canary Islands. But they said that Spanish officials granted the permission on condition that they be allowed to search the plane.

Austrian narrative: They landed for fuel, we searched with permission

According to Austrian statements, flight FAB-001 requested permission to land in Vienna because the pilots believed they might not have had sufficient fuel. Austrians say they searched the plane with Morales’ permission and checked the passports of all passengers, but called this “routine.”

[ljm2002]

30. "It wasn't forced to land."

Well no shit, Sherlock. It was allowed to land. It needed to land somewhere for refueling, because it had not been allowed to fly along its normal course. By countries that all, coincidentally, at the same time, decided to revoke overflight permission. So the pilot in real time has to make a decision: where to head, who to ask for landing privileges, in enough time that they don't run out of fuel.

But it's just so damned amusing, isn't it, to claim "Well, they weren't FORCED to land! HAH!" Because that really proves something.

Yes: the pilots asked permission to land based on concerns about fuel. Why did they have concerns about fuel? Because they had to backtrack because they could not follow their flight plan. By any reasonable interpretation, there was duress involved. They did not have all day to think about what alternatives they might have, they needed to get resolution, as they were the ones up in the air burning fuel.

[zeemike]

62. The word twisting game here is amazing.

"Not forced to land" as if you are in a plane low on fuel you are not forced to land.
And Morales smiled...that means he wanted to land there and be detained for 14 hours.
Amazing how you can believe most anything to keep from admitting to the truth.

[ljm2002]

63. It is nothing short of astonishing...

...as if there is an influx of people just poised at their keyboards, looking for grist to support the party line... and if the grist doesn't really support their position then they will twist it and turn it and fold, spindle and mutilate it until it appears to do so.

Pathetic.

[Iliyah]

61. That would be correct

but Wilileaks is spewing much crap and some are eating it up like its gospel.

[treestar]

14. Of course he is

He's a politician!

[morningfog]

18. A lot of CYA going on in Europe today.

5 nations were involved yesterday, they are all trying to pass the buck and say they weren't involved. And all are refusing to confirm or deny US involvement.

We need some leaks to get the truth.

[emulatorloo]

22. Politicians have been known to exaggerate for effect.

I don't know the full story but pretty sure you are aware of how political rhetoric works.

[gcomeau]

25. Are you only comfortable saying that about the US government?

And the Austrians. And the French. AND the Spanish. AND THE PORTUGESE.

Yes, ALL of them can be engaged in a vast conspiracy to lie to us... but Morales? He's the president of Bolivia! He can't be dishonest! Unlike the leaders of every single other country involved here who must ALL be lying.

[DearHeart]

37. You don't think the US allies would lie for the US? They're not capable of keeping secrets for

the US? What about the CIA's secret rendition flights? Those flights crossed over the airspace of some of those countries, specifically Spain, Portugal, and France. How soon people forget.

And no, I'm not siding with Morales or with Austria. I don't believe that we have enough information yet.

[gcomeau]

43. Five nations backed by hard physical evidence in the audio recordings...

vs. one guy who called landing to refuel his plane a hostage situation.


Yeah, in this case I know which way to side.

[Iliyah]

64. Thats a new one "hostage situation"?

Who was the hostage?

[gcomeau]

67. He claimed HE was.

Literally used the phrase "held hostage". And some of the more hysterical people on this forum are just running with him on it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023159818

[Cali_Democrat]

52. It's all a giant conspiracy

It HAS to be!

[gcomeau]

53. Everything is... the man is always out to get us. -nt

[graham4anything]

28. Morales is enjoying his 15 minutes. I myself have to admit I never heard of him prior to this.

Now I have. So I guess the full press court has worked as I now know his name.

(How many in the world can name all the world leaders with out a score book?

Here in the USA we have a new election every 4 years, and a process that makes remembering ours a bit easier (all 43 men who were the 44 presidents (one is given two numbers as he was President, lost, then later elected again).

[cali]

40. that speaks only to your woeful uninformed state.

[KittyWampus]

97. Oh, so you can list the president of every single Central & South American country> LOL!

[RufusTFirefly]

58. Hadn't heard of him before? I'm gobsmacked.

That speaks volumes and explains a great deal.

Now you can add "knowledge of the name of the president of Bolivia" to your resumé

[KittyWampus]

98. WOW! So you are another DU'er who knows the name of every single president of every Latin American

country. Impressive!

[RufusTFirefly]

55. Those silly primitive cultures!! They have such wild imaginations!!

But I love their colorful garments!

[HipChick]

16. So President Morales owes the US and President Obama an apology?

[great white snark]

32. So does a certain group of shameless DUers but I expect more head in the sand blissful bemoaning.

You just can't suddenly turn off hatred.

[bluestate10]

102. Chained CPI is still out there to exploit. The DUERs that do that don't really give a shit

about poor elderly. If they did care about elderly, they would join with true democrats and work their asses of to defeat ALL republicans in EVERY election.

[tridim]

23. LOL

Neo-DU DERP.

[Cali_Democrat]

54. LOL

[Cha]

72. "Derp"

"Derp Herp"

[grasswire]

29. I'm sorry, but I find your demeanor in this matter to be very puzzling.

Hilarity, jokes, sarcasm, cheap shots, and such on many threads.

I don't understand what precisely about this very serious national security matter calls for that kind of response.

Could you explain?

[JI7]

31. what national security matter ? and i do find the whole thing hilarious also

[HooptieWagon]

39. Beats me. I guess denying a plane flyover untill its forced to land to refuel...

...somehow justifies mass surveillence. The Obama Personality Cult aren't the most logical...in fact, they are pretty unhinged when they desparately cling to hope of a "win". I guess anything to deflect from the fact that they cannot defend mass surveillence of US citizens.

[Civilization2]

65. +1

[malaise]

56. Then explain this please

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023162127

[LondonReign2]

60. He won't. He can't

[Iliyah]

71. And you don't the the full facts either

and calling someone an idiot is uncalled for.

He/she has a much right to start a thread like anyone else, and what he posted is part of the godforsaken ongoing bullshit that the Snowden, Greenwald & Assange cronies post constant threads one after another saying the same gawd damn shit over and over again.

[Civilization2]

75. Really,. calls em likes i sees em.

OP "BOOM: Austria says Morales' plane landed for fuel and audio from the plane confirms it (hahahaha)"

Childish and silly I know, but this is what was written by the OPer.

Even a cursory viewing of any major new media would inform anyone what transpired. Claiming that something that obviously happened and no one is disputing somehow blows the truth apart is idiotic (i.e. stupid).

[reusrename]

109. You're right, nobody is really that stupid.

I don't know what the deal is, but idiocy probably isn't the problem.

Jets need fuel to stay airborne, everybody, even the idiots, knows that.

Why the board is being spammed with bullshit like this OP is a legitimate question.

[Swagman]

68. Every day I become more disillusioned by DU

the very title of this thread "BOOM"..."hahahaha"...the mocking of any alternate viewpoint ..the unwritten but obvious implication that Morales is lying or exaggerating ( I don't know the facts but neither does the thread author..the twisting of a request for fuel into a complete vindication of the anti-Snow den campaign...a bit like saying a tortured man asking for water indicates he is perfectly healthy ).

...others expressing that they had never heard of Morales as though that ignorance of a leader is an indication into the veracity of his claims...

the endless campaign to score points that Snowden is a criminal and all that follows...including President Morales statements, are some sort of mass anti-US rhetoric...

we heard about Wikileaks and the "egotist" Julian Assange who is seemingly far more evil that those he exposed..who shoot missiles into groups of innocent foreigners (and they are foreigners)..

and in my head I have my own conspiracy theory that grows and grows...that there are members on here who seem to ratchet up tens of thousands of posts and every now and then divert trains of thoughts..threads..away and to the the right..ever so subtle...they agree on much which gives them credibility..enough to divert...

perhaps it's all in my head and I'm paranoid but I'm beginning to think DU is not good for my health.

[DirkGently]

81. Pathetic, isn't it? And the less it works, the more forced "Haha / LOL" we see.

[HooptieWagon]

83. Meh. Its just the Personality Cult.

They don't have the knowledge to comment on policy, and have no steadfast principles. They just cheer for the guy with the D after his name, even when he embraces Rethug policies. Hell, if Obama announced he was Anti-Choice tomorrow, they'd still cheer and call the rest of us racists, etc.

[Savannahmann]

73. How long can planes circle while decisions about permission are debated?

Most planes land with enough fuel for a divert plus one hour of flight time remaining. So what should they do since they could not enter French Airspace until the President of France finally gave permission? Perhaps they could land on the magical S.H.I.E.L.D. Flying carrier, if it was around. You have to give a reason when you ask to land at an airport you don't have clearances to land at.

[Swagman]

76. planes only hold a certain amount of fuel for a variety of reasons...

...it is dangerous to carry a lot more fuel than is needed for a flight and pilots will know every re-fueling station on the map.

An out of the blue incident like a refusal to land causes a major headache. If they were refused air space they may have diverting to a much longer route...

But this is simply Morales grandstanding and hating America for it's freedoms..surely ?

[Savannahmann]

86. I'm going to assume that was sarcasm.

If not, then I may consider moving to Bolivia. Their President is so powerful that half of Europe jumped to placate his effort at grandstanding.

Seriously, once French and Spanish airspace was denied, there wasn't anywhere forward to land at with the exception of Gibralter, and possibly Malta, and I don't know if either was in range of fuel remaining. In that situation, the smart move is land as soon as possible and then figure out the options and situations. Some people act like every plane has enough range to fly around the world, and little things like delays in permission are no big deal. It is not like a blocked road in your car. You can't just roll down the window, cut off the engine, and wait for the road to be opened. Planes burn fuel by the pound. In fact, as you probably know, the pilot can tell you how many pounds of fuel he burns per minute. Those pounds go fast with three engines running.

[liberal N proud]

79. But, but the propaganda tells people the should hate on France and Obama

[Warren Stupidity]

80. K&R ooops. You doubled down on the bullshit and uck it is splattering all over you!

[Enrique]

84. BOOM indeed

[suffragette]

103. More like a fizzle, isn't it?

[markiv]

87. Europe officially renamed 'Airstrip One' today nt

[LittleBlue]

91. Poll: How long until we see Cali_Democrat again?

Boom! Hahahaha

[Cali_Democrat]

93. You called?

[LittleBlue]

94. At least you didn't hide

[morningfog]

99. France apologizes, Portugal admits, they both blocked landing, France also blocked airspace.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23174874


This, as always asserted, was the cause for the need to stop in Austria to refuel. ANd Austria refused departure until the plane was searched. You jumped the gun with your boom.

[LittleBlue]

100. Yes, I would like an explanation here

Acknowledgement would be nice.

[morningfog]

101. Like a firecracker that went off to soon, this boom.

[morningfog]

104. *fizzle*

[Scurrilous]

110. K & R