Jimmy Carter on Snowden: "He's obviously violated the laws of America, for which he's responsible."

[ProSense]

<...>

Snowden's acts may have some positive impact, former President Jimmy Carter said Friday.

"He's obviously violated the laws of America, for which he's responsible, but I think the invasion of human rights and American privacy has gone too far," he told CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.

"I think that the secrecy that has been surrounding this invasion of privacy has been excessive, so I think that the bringing of it to the public notice has probably been, in the long term, beneficial...I think the American people deserve to know what their Congress is doing."

If another country wants to give Snowden haven, "then that is their right as a sovereign nation," he said. "If the United States can acquire custody of him, I'm sure he will be brought to trial, and that's the way the law should be implemented."

- more -

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/us/snowden-lawyer-offer/index.html

Ecuador cools on Edward Snowden asylum as Assange frustration grows
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023119831

[ucrdem]

1. Kick for a good Dem

[graham4anything]

2. Jimmy Carter -"He's obviously violated the laws of America, for which he's responsible"

Jimmy of course is vilified by the same people who vilified Mike Dukakis, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton.

Do I detect a pattern?

As for a conversation, that is what adults do, and Jimmy Carter, Mike Dukakis, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton are.

When the hyperbole stops, a conversation begins.

And remember, Barack Obama put safeguards in place, that the Bush administration on purpose kept out.

So, when the adults come to the table, the hyperbole can stop, the politics of the Rand Paul Jeb Bush machine can stop,
and an ADULT polite conversation can ensure.

Leaving ego and hyperbole at the door.

[baldguy]

5. No, they just take his words out of context:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023119565

[Number23]

126. It's hilarious, isn't it? As if it's impossible to find what the man ACTUALLY said

Some of the folks riding this Snowden bandwagon make him look worse than his actual deeds and fascination with Ron Paul ever could.

[snot]

6. Who villifies Carter who also villifies any of the others you mention?

Not a "pattern" I've noticed.

[mazzarro]

68. No matter how much a corpse is dressed up, it will, nonethesess, still smell

"And remember, Barack Obama put safeguards in place, that the Bush administration on purpose kept out" - that does not obviate fact that this is not right endangers all.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

3. Finally, someone who can hold two thoughts in his head at the same time.

I always liked him, but I like him a little more every day.

[Whisp]

7. Me too. He is truly one of the Greats. Love the man. n/t

[Whisp]

4. oh oh, some people are not going to like this.

Some were hoping Carter was throwing Obama under the bus and cheering on Snowden. There is a happy thread like that now.

Reading the whole article puts a totally different light on what Carter actually said.

[fasttense]

59. How in the world can you equate cheering for Snowden as throwing Obama under the bus?

I'm glad Snowden revealed the illegal and unconstitutional spying by corporations with NSA's blessing on all Americans. I'm glad Snowden hasn't gone through a show trail here in the US. We all know since corporations own our judicial system, there is no way Snowden will ever get a fair trail.

But that's NOT throwing Obama under the bus. I kind of like Obama and wish he were the liberal he talked likes in his speeches but he's done a few good things and he certainly is better than any RepubliCON. So, cheering for Snowden does in no way equate in my mind with throwing Obama under the bus. Maybe it is throwing NSA corporate contractors under the bus, but not Obama.

[gcomeau]

95. WHAT "illegal" spying?

This was a legally authorized program.

[KittyWampus]

8. He's being so reasonable!

[flamingdem]

11. Love Jimmeh!

great potus

[Tarheel_Dem]

9. Uh oh!

Rec.

[dionysus]

92. why do you hate america! them's fightin woids.. THAT'S IT... put up yer dukes!1111!1

[Tarheel_Dem]

94. Take that, you!

Hey dion.

[dionysus]

100. hey how's it goin?

[Cali_Democrat]

10. Under the bus you go, Jimmy!!!1!1

You're dead to me!!11!(one)1!!

[savalez]

32. lol

I love the &quot one)"!

Hilarious

[mazzarro]

72. Wooow!

What a matured response.....

[burnodo]

101. what bus?

it's you people on the Obama Express who own the bus

[Cali_Democrat]

102. ...

[Douglas Carpenter]

12. here is the entire quote

Snowden's acts may have some positive impact, former President Jimmy Carter said Friday.

"He's obviously violated the laws of America, for which he's responsible, but I think the invasion of human rights and American privacy has gone too far," he told CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.

"I think that the secrecy that has been surrounding this invasion of privacy has been excessive, so I think that the bringing of it to the public notice has probably been, in the long term, beneficial."

Asked to elaborate, he said, "I think the American people deserve to know what their Congress is doing."
If another country wants to give Snowden haven, "then that is their right as a sovereign nation," he said. "If the United States can acquire custody of him, I'm sure he will be brought to trial, and that's the way the law should be implemented."

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/28/us/snowden-lawyer-offer/index.html

[flamingdem]

13. why is this missing the part about breaking the law?

??

[Warren Stupidity]

20. because it isn't

Did you mean this part:

He's obviously violated the laws of America, for which he's responsible

or perhaps this:

If the United States can acquire custody of him, I'm sure he will be brought to trial, and that's the way the law should be implemented.

they are both there.

[Go Vols]

22. Its word for word the same

as the OP.

[Fire Walk With Me]

76. Except for excluding the part against the surveillance state, making it appear Carter is for it. n/t

[ProSense]

15. Um, that's the text in the OP.

[Fire Walk With Me]

58. What a difference that makes. n/t

[loyalsister]

14. What I have been hoping to hear in this mess!!

That's the most balanced assessment I have come across. I really have been disappointed by the us vs. them pronouncements here. It's far more complicated than that and this wise old president states it perfectly.

[bvar22]

16. Thank You, President Carter.

Sounds like President Carter is very diplomatically telling Snowden,
[font size=3]Thank You.
If "they" catch you, they'll f**k you!
Find a Safe Place, and do your thing for transparent democracy![/font]

Always did like President Carter.

[Orsino]

17. Obvious to whom?

I think Carter spoke out of turn...and in the same statement in which he shows concern for human rights.

He's allowing for mitigating factors, I believe, but I don't think we need any more uninvolved public figures weighing in on who is and is not guilty of what.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. Jimmy sounds a lot like this guy!

http://www.policymic.com/articles/47355/edward-snowden-interview-transcript-full-text-read-the-guardian-s-entire-interview-with-the-man-who-leaked-prism

This is something that's not our place to decide, the public needs to decide whether these programs and policies are right or wrong.

"The greatest fear that I have regarding the outcome for America of these disclosures is that nothing will change. People will see in the media all of these disclosures. They'll know the lengths that the government is going to grant themselves powers unilaterally to create greater control over American society and global society. But they won't be willing to take the risks necessary to stand up and fight to change things to force their representatives to actually take a stand in their interests."

"And the months ahead, the years ahead it's only going to get worse until eventually there will be a time where policies will change because the only thing that restricts the activities of the surveillance state are policy. Even our agreements with other sovereign governments, we consider that to be a stipulation of policy rather then a stipulation of law. And because of that a new leader will be elected, they'll find the switch, say that 'Because of the crisis, because of the dangers we face in the world, some new and unpredicted threat, we need more authority, we need more power.' And there will be nothing the people can do at that point to oppose it. And it will be turnkey tyranny."

Edward Snowden

[flamingdem]

19. Except that Jimmy didn't sell out to the Chinese nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. Did he?

[flamingdem]

26. You know he did, even Greenwald admitted he "ingratiated himself" with info nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. So, you don't know.

What info? That we are spying on the Chinese? Which, of course, they were unaware of.

[flamingdem]

31. That information led to cooled relations between the US and China

google it, it mattered

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Simple solution. Apologize to China for spying on them.

[ProSense]

38. You have

"Simple solution. Apologize to China for spying on them."

...got to be kidding?

The Errors of Edward Snowden and His Global Hypocrisy Tour
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023112872

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. No. Then the Chinese could apologize to us for spying on us.

And, both could apologize to all the other nations they've been spying on. And, hopefully, but doubtfully, stop spying on anyone.

[shawn703]

55. Yeah the level of naivety exhibited on this forum is breathtaking sometimes

[ProSense]

21. Snowden = President Carter?

I thought he was like MLK?

[flamingdem]

23. I love these competing Jimmeh threads

[ucrdem]

29. Snowman is going down x4

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. No. But, they share the same views on spying. Do you?

[ProSense]

27. I share

"Carter's view. I think Snowden is a confused hack"

Carter's views on spying and Snowden. I think Snowden is a confused hack who will say anything to promote his distortions.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. Oh, good! I have a blue link for you!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3119565

[ProSense]

36. Cool, see the OP.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. Cool. See how Snowden and Carter agree about the NSA.

[ProSense]

41. I see how

"Cool. See how Snowden and Carter agree about the NSA."

...I agree with Carter. Snowden lacks credibility, but I'm sure he knows he's going to be prosecuted if and when he returns to this country.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. Do you agree with Carter's and Snowden's statements about privacy?

Jimmy Carter to @CNN on Snowden's disclosures: "The invasion of human rights in American privacy has gone too far."

Jimmy Carter to @CNN on Snowden's disclosures: "The bringing of it to the public notice has probably been, in the long term, beneficial"

Jimmy Carter to @CNN on Snowden: "I think that the secrecy that has been surrounding this invasion of privacy has been excessive"

[ProSense]

43. ? I agree with Carter. Those are his quotes, not Snowden's

No matter how hard you try, I'm not going to agree with Snowden, a disingenuous hack.

That's like asking if I agree with Rand Paul on drones or marriage equality.

[msongs]

44. you agree that murdering innocent people is ok if obama does it cuz its legal as well nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

45. No. Of course not.

[ProSense]

47. I can see

"you agree that murdering innocent people is ok if obama does it cuz its legal as well"

...why you stick to one-liners: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021865841



Now, back to my point about agreeing with Rand and Snowden being a similiar adventure that I'll never take.

Disappointing those who 'stand with Rand'

By Steve Benen

In March, Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) launched a high-profile filibuster on the Senate floor, bringing attention to drone strikes and civil liberties questions that too often go ignored. But as the spectacle faded, a problem emerged -- Paul didn't seem to fully understand the issue he ostensibly cares so much about.

The Kentucky Republican wanted to know if the Obama administration feels it has the authority to "use a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on American soil." Attorney General Eric Holders said the "answer to that question is no." For many involved in the debate, the answer was superficial and incomplete -- who gets to define what constitutes "combat"? what about non-weaponized drones? -- but Paul declared victory and walked away satisfied.

Today, the senator went further, saying he's comfortable with drones being used over U.S. soil if the executive branch decides -- without a warrant or oversight -- there's an "imminent threat." Paul told Fox News:

"...I've never argued against any technology being used when you an imminent threat, an active crime going on. If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash, I don't care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him. But it's different if they want to come fly over your hot tub, or your yard just because they want to do surveillance on everyone, and they want to watch your activities."

I realize it's difficult to explore complex policy questions in detail during a brief television interview, and perhaps if the Republican senator had more time to think about it, he might explain his position differently. But as of this afternoon, it sounds like Rand Paul is comfortable with the executive branch having the warrantless authority to use weaponized drones to kill people on American soil suspected of robbing a liquor store.

But flying over a hot tub is where he draws the line.

- more -

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/04/23/17881782-disappointing-those-who-stand-with-rand

[woo me with science]

112. Prosense: "The law can't...make that legal. Spying on Americans was, is and will still be illegal."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2461323

Bush is spying on Americans: opponents and activist groups. The law can't be changed to make that legal.

ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 08:53 AM
Original message
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 08:53 AM by ProSense

Bush is spying on Americans: opponents and activist groups. The law can't
be changed to make that legal. The Republicans are trying to pull a fast one with this "law change" tactic by framing the illegal spying as warrantless spying on terrorists; therefore, the law is being changed to give Bush the authority to spy on terrorist. Spying on Americans was, is and will still be illegal. Bush committed crimeS by illegal spying on Americans and breaking existing FISA laws.

I'm sure all criminals would love to have a law passed that retroactively absolves them of their crimes.

[ProSense]

117. Um,

"Do you agree with yourself? With this post you wrote?"


...pwned: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3122617

[klebean]

28. Finally...the needed perspective

"I think the American people deserve to know what their Congress is doing."

[Scurrilous]

33. Good on Jimmy!

The measured voice of sanity and reason.

[arely staircase]

37. k&r

they kinda left that part out of the other one.

[DCBob]

46. yes, common sense from a great man.

The Snowden cheerleaders wont like this a bit.

[Bluenorthwest]

48. Why? I'm surprised you agree with Carter's statement at all. Beneficial....

nt

[DCBob]

49. huh??

you must have me confused with someone else.

[great white snark]

62. I see no support of Carter coming from you.

Just the usual accusations of who and who is not a true "liberal"

[frylock]

65. the 4th amendment cheerleaders seem pretty OK with president carter's measured response

you'll also note that, unlike the supporters of the surveillance state, that President Carter also believes "...that the bringing of it to the public notice has probably been, in the long term, beneficial...I think the American people deserve to know what their Congress is doing."

[Zorra]

50. Breaking News: 8000 Occupiers broke the law and were arrested for it.

Revs. Martin Luther King and Ralph Abernathy broke the law and were arrested.

Heck, they probably arrested 50.000 of us who protested Vietnam.

Nelson Mandela spent years in prison.

Despite extreme personal risk, the courageous among us do what they gotta do to fight injustice when faced with the corruption and injustice of authority and authorities.

Snowden totally knows the consequences for what he is doing.

Honestly, I don't know the guy, he might be a total jerk for all I know, but I am grateful to him for revealing to me extensive corruption in my government.

If he was on the level, the reward for his actions will either be be a life in paranoid exile, or spending the rest of his life in a cage.

I doubt they'll allow him a book deal under the circumstances.

[ProSense]

53. Breaking: Snowden is not MLK or Mandela.

He's a disingenuous hack.

[Zorra]

74. Again, you skirt the point with a strawman argument. The point is:

Snowden knew there would be severe consequences for his actions, and apparently chose to take these actions because he believed they would be beneficial to many human beings. In this respect, he is similar to MLK and Mandela. Of course, that fact does not serve your purpose here.

He did me a personal service. I now understand that my personal electronic communications are at the disposal of the MIC, to use as they see fit, and if I, or anyone who is actually a viable candidate, tries try to run for political office against a MIC sponsored candidate, any and all of my (our) personal electronic communications, can and will be used against me (us) in order to smear me (us),

In essence, the NSA has become an instrument of domestic terrorism for the MIC.

The personal information they have at their disposal is a weapon of mass destruction for the MIC.

I"m very glad Mr. Snowden made me aware of this weapon. Now I fully understand that I can never run for political office, or I will be smeared by the MIC.

I, and everyone else except for supporters of of the MIC, such as yourself, am essentially being terrorized by the MIC.

We're all fucked, and you, apparently, could not be more pleased about this.

[ProSense]

75. Again,

Again, you skirt the point with a strawman argument. The point is:

Snowden knew there would be severe consequences for his actions, and apparently chose to take these actions because he believed they would be beneficial to many human beings. In this respect, he is similar to MLK and Mandela. Of course, that fact does not serve your purpose here.

...Snowden is not MLK or Mandela. The comparison is ludicrous.

Fleeing the country to avoid prosecution makes Snowden a coward.
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10023032645

Hero? Yes!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023084246

[Zorra]

78. I sincerely admire your stalwart dedication and loyalty to MIC policies, you persist in

pursuing a course of blatant deliberate obtuseness that is transparently contrary to all fact, reason, and logic, in order to defend whatever the MIC is to you.

Do you have a Masters in Marketing, by any chance?

[ProSense]

79. So now you're offering your own straw man? n/t

[Zorra]

81. No, that argument was already dead and closed due to deliberate obtuseness.

I was offering my compliments of your persistence and dedication in selling whatever the MIC needs to be sold on any given day.

Seriously, do you have a Masters in Marketing?

It's not a crime, you know.

[ProSense]

88. "Seriously, do you have a Masters in Marketing?"

"It's not a crime, you know."

WTF?

[Zorra]

96. You are so persistent and dedicated to selling us whatever you try to sell here on a daily

a daily basis, I was seriously wondering if you are educated in the field of sales and marketing.

Repeating the same things over and over makes the truth sink in, kind of catapults the propaganda, so to speak.

[ProSense]

99. May I

You are so persistent and dedicated to selling us whatever you try to sell here on a daily

a daily basis, I was seriously wondering if you are educated in the field of sales and marketing.

Repeating the same things over and over makes the truth sink in, kind of catapults the propaganda, so to speak.

...suggest you spare me? Labeling other people's opinions "propaganda" appears to be an attempt to discredit people who disagree with you.

I'm reminded: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3103322

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2908803
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2604246
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2640706
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2641045
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2762452
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2762454
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2908479

[woo me with science]

110. Do you stand by this post, Prosense?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2461323

Bush is spying on Americans: opponents and activist groups. The law can't be changed to make that legal.

ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 08:53 AM
Original message
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 08:53 AM by ProSense

Bush is spying on Americans: opponents and activist groups. The law can't
be changed to make that legal. The Republicans are trying to pull a fast one with this "law change" tactic by framing the illegal spying as warrantless spying on terrorists; therefore, the law is being changed to give Bush the authority to spy on terrorist. Spying on Americans was, is and will still be illegal. Bush committed crimeS by illegal spying on Americans and breaking existing FISA laws.

I'm sure all criminals would love to have a law passed that retroactively absolves them of their crimes.

[ProSense]

115. LOL! Hahaha. You're attempting a gotcha?

Do you stand by this post, Prosense?

Bush is spying on Americans: opponents and activist groups. The law can't be changed to make that legal.

ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 08:53 AM
Original message
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 08:53 AM by ProSense

Bush is spying on Americans: opponents and activist groups. The law can't
be changed to make that legal. The Republicans are trying to pull a fast one with this "law change" tactic by framing the illegal spying as warrantless spying on terrorists; therefore, the law is being changed to give Bush the authority to spy on terrorist. Spying on Americans was, is and will still be illegal. Bush committed crimeS by illegal spying on Americans and breaking existing FISA laws.

I'm sure all criminals would love to have a law passed that retroactively absolves them of their crimes.

Yup, stand 100 percent behind it.

Ever heard of the PAA: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023026724

[woo me with science]

119. Prosense: "Spying on Americans was, is and will still be illegal."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2461323

Bush is spying on Americans: opponents and activist groups. The law can't be changed to make that legal.

ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 08:53 AM
Original message
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 08:53 AM by ProSense

Bush is spying on Americans: opponents and activist groups. The law can't
be changed to make that legal. The Republicans are trying to pull a fast one with this "law change" tactic by framing the illegal spying as warrantless spying on terrorists; therefore, the law is being changed to give Bush the authority to spy on terrorist. Spying on Americans was, is and will still be illegal. Bush committed crimeS by illegal spying on Americans and breaking existing FISA laws.

I'm sure all criminals would love to have a law passed that retroactively absolves them of their crimes.

[ProSense]

121. Yes,

"Prosense: 'Spying on Americans was, is and will still be illegal.'"

... agree with myself: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022981692

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023026724

Are you sad your gotcha failed?

[Zorra]

114. I only label posts propaganda when there is either a probable right wing and/or profit

motivation behind the post I am labeling. The Third Way, for instance, is a propaganda spewing tool of the 1% dedicated to neutralizing the Democratic Party in order to make it ineffective as an opposition to control of government by profit motivated wealthy private interests.

The pro-democracy posters here have no agenda other than promoting and preserving democracy.

No one is going to pay us for defending democracy from conservatives and conservative profit interests. There's no money to be made from convincing folks here that private profit seeking interests are attempting to propagandize them for profit and control. The only motivations for us are the preservation and promotion of democracy, justice, equality, and protecting the well being of human beings from the malicious private interests for whom democracy is a serious liability.

In contrast, wealthy private interests have all the money in the world to pay people to post on the internet in order to promote their profit and power interests

In assessing a post, I always ask this question:

"What is motivating this person to post this? What does this person have to gain by posting this?"

The primary motivations for action by conservatives are , power, and control. The primary motivation for action by liberals is the improvement of the human condition.

Follow the money, do the math, and the profit motivated propagandists, witting or unwitting, become transparent.

[ProSense]

116. Please

I only label posts propaganda when there is either a probable right wing and/or profit

motivation behind the post I am labeling. The Third Way, for instance, is a propaganda spewing tool of the 1% dedicated to neutralizing the Democratic Party in order to make it ineffective as an opposition to control of government by profit motivated wealthy private interests.

The pro-democracy posters here have no agenda other than promoting and preserving democracy.

...don't make me laugh....

[Zorra]

118. OK, I won't. So that's it then. It makes me sad to see people laugh out of desperation.

Since I don't make any money by posting here, I need to go tend to life's little chores.

carry on.

[ProSense]

122. "Since I don't make any money by posting here, I need to go tend to life's little chores. "

Lalala, desperation, lalala.

[woo me with science]

120. Excellent post. Another defining feature of propaganda

is that it shifts like the wind to serve the interests of its purveyors.

"We have always been at war with Eurasia."
"We have always been at war with Eastasia."

[Laelth]

129. Great post, Zorra. n/t

-Laelth

[ProSense]

52. Is the OP

"Did you forget to include the REST of what Prez. Carter tweeted to CNN? It appears you have."

...invisible? I mean, what's with all the claims that comments that are in it aren't in it?

[99th_Monkey]

54. Drat - my bad

I was admittedly a bit hasty in posting my comment, which I am deleting now.

Thanks for pointing it out. as always, I want to be fair and truthful in
my dealings.

[Fire Walk With Me]

56. Just and Unjust Laws: According to Dr. Martin Luther King jr.

http://themoderatevoice.com/9615/just-and-unjust-laws-according-to-dr-martin-luther-king-jr/

“A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law.“

“Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust.”

“One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws”

He is using the example of certain Nazi laws. The Nazis occupied my country (The Netherlands) as well as many other countries. They made and enforced terrible laws here. For instance: It was illegal to hide Jews in one’s home from the Nazis. But, if one hid a Jew dispite it being illegal, one saved a life: Jews that would get caught would be send to and imprisoned in camps. Mostly, of course, death camps.

[savalez]

57. Kick.

[berni_mccoy]

60. Carter captures well my feelings on this.

[Life Long Dem]

61. He separates both issues from each other

NSA and human rights, and then Snowden himself who broke the law.

[Fire Walk With Me]

63. This is a pathetic, propagandist attempt to frame something to your pleasure. Carter goes on to say

"I think the invasion of human rights and American privacy has gone too far" as posted upthread.

Catapult the propaganda much?

And regarding Ecuador:

Ecuador calls Congressional Snowden threats blackmail, backs out of US trade agreement

http://boingboing.net/2013/06/27/ecuador-calls-congressional-sn.html

After US powerful US members of Congress started to threaten Ecuador with trade sanctions should it offer asylum to the NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, Ecuador pre-emptively canceled its trade agreement with the US, backing out of the Andean Trade Preference Act. They called the US threats blackmail. ""Ecuador does not accept pressure or threats from anyone, nor does it trade with principles or submit them to mercantile interests, however important those may be." -Fernando Alvarado, communications secretary, government of Ecuador.



Your position is based upon the use of selective, cut-and-paste argument resisting the counter-argument given immediately thereafter. It also fails to include the facts about Ecuador. Why are you doing this?

[ProSense]

70. WTF? He "goes on to say" exactly what's in the OP.

"Catapult the propaganda much? "

Read it again and stop trying so hard to be self-righteous.

[great white snark]

64. K&R for a great President and even better Statesmen.

[Iliyah]

66. K & R!

Thanks ProSense!

[moondust]

67. President Carter is right yet again.

Unlike most people, he has the distinct advantage of having been in a position to know firsthand what's what when it comes to national security and intelligence gathering.

[Gravitycollapse]

69. A couple more dollars are deposited in ProSense's bank account...

cha-ching.

[msanthrope]

71. Quoting Jimmy Carter makes her a shill? Where do I sign up? nt

[ProSense]

73. Yeah, it's the go-to response of people who have no point. n/t

[msanthrope]

77. Facts frustrate some. nt

[Gravitycollapse]

83. No, the 80+ threads she's posted on Snowden makes her a shill.

[ProSense]

85. Bullshit. You have no point and your desperation is showing. n/t

[Gravitycollapse]

86. Desperate is cherry picking pieces out of Carter's speech to suit your agenda.

[ProSense]

87. What the fuck are you talking about? n/t

[Gravitycollapse]

90. The part where he endorsed Ecuador's ability and right to grant asylum to Snowden.

[ProSense]

93. Can you point to the exact missing text in the original article?

The link is in the OP.

[Cha]

97. You better watch it, Gravitycollapse.. Members get their posts hidden for

spewing your kind of vapid insults.

Hidden Post..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3113122

Jury Results.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3113393

You have nothing interesting to say about the OP with Pres Carter so you resort to personal attacks.

[ProSense]

123. LOL! n/t

[deurbano]

80. "Ecuador's rationale appeared to have won support from former U.S. President Jimmy Carter."

The CNN article to which the OP links frames Carter's remarks a little differently.
.
From the original link: http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/us/snowden-lawyer-offer/index.html

<<A day after authorities in Ecuador said they would not bow to U.S. pressure as they weigh Snowden's request for asylum, State Department spokesman Patrick Ventrell denied any "bullying" tactics had been used….


…"What would not be a good thing is them granting Mr. Snowden asylum," Ventrell had said. "That would have grave difficulties for a bilateral relationship."….

…The warning sparked a strong response on Thursday from Ecuador's president, Rafael Correa, at an event in Quevedo.
"It is outrageous to try to delegitimize a state for receiving a petition of asylum," said the left-leaning economist who is known for decrying what he and other Latin American leaders have called U.S. imperialism.

And on Friday, the Embassy of Ecuador announced that the country had suspended its support for the Andean Trade Promotion and Drug Eradication Act, which provided duty-free treatment for certain products. "As we have stated previously, any political or economic consequences of our decision regarding the asylum request are outweighed by our legal and humanitarian obligations," an embassy statement said...

…Ecuador's rationale appeared to have won support from former U.S. President Jimmy Carter. If another country wants to give haven to Snowden, "then that is their right as a sovereign nation," he told CNN's Suzanne Malveaux. "If the United States can acquire custody of him, I'm sure he will be brought to trial, and that's the way the law should be implemented."

Snowden's acts may have some positive impact, Carter said. "He's obviously violated the laws of America, for which he's responsible, but I think the invasion of human rights and American privacy has gone too far," he said. "I think that the secrecy that has been surrounding this invasion of privacy has been excessive, so I think that the bringing of it to the public notice has probably been, in the long term, beneficial."

Asked to elaborate, he said, "I think the American people deserve to know what their Congress is doing."...>>


Daniel Ellsberg was guilty of breaking the law, but he got a fair hearing. Is that possible now?

[EOTE]

82. Since you're obviously such a fan of Carter's, then I'm sure that you'd agree with the other things

that he's said?

"The invasion of human rights in American privacy has gone too far."

"The bringing of it to the public notice has probably been, in the long term, beneficial"

"I think that the secrecy that has been surrounding this invasion of privacy has been excessive"

I'm truly interested in seeing how you feel about these things he's said. I'll patiently await your response.

[senseandsensibility]

91. We'll see

but for what it's worth, I agree with every word of Carter's statement. He is a great American and a hero of mine.

[graham4anything]

98. you do realize it was President Obama that made Bush's secrecy transparent, correct? And safeguards

are now in.

President Obama is always knowning what he is doing.

BTW, I love PResident Obama's tweet yesterday I gotta find the exact thing, but it was a really great, true statement.

President Obama, the #3 president of all time, will he surpass Lincoln for the second best after LBJ?

You know, it matters little.

Thank you Jimmy Carter for an adult statement.
When the hyperbole ceases, the conversations begin.

Jimmy Carter ADULT
Rand Paul, Paul Ryan the teaparty, libertarian party and republican party acting like children.
Time for adults to deal with the serious problems, bipartisian, and work together, with some compromise, to achieve
forward movement. And to cut the absolute faux hyperbole.

[dionysus]

89. well put Jimmy.

[burnodo]

103. Catherina's thread - 12:56.....this thread - 1:35

gettin' a little slower in your old age? Normally you'd have that tit-for-tat response ready within minutes!

[ProSense]

104. ?

"Catherina's thread - 12:56.....this thread - 1:35"

Wow, two different threads with different times.

Thanks for pointing that out.

[burnodo]

106. you're being obtuse

not surprising, but still...

[ProSense]

107. You're being desperate.

Understandable.

[burnodo]

108. desperate about what?

you're the one who keeps on talking about Snowden

[ProSense]

109. Oh,

"desperate about what? you're the one who keeps on talking about Snowden"

...I don't know. (wink-wink)

[burnodo]

111. Your self-amusement notwithstanding

You haven't explained yourself

[ProSense]

113. Hey, you're brilliant. Figure it out. n/t

[burnodo]

124. Figure it out?

I already did that

[railsback]

105. Carter, who was sworn to uphold and defend the laws of the land

of course understands this. Too bad so many here don't.

[Number23]

125. Just checking to see if this OP got as many recs as the one that deliberately left all of this out!

SHOCKINGLY, it hasn't!!

[ucrdem]

127. The Libertarian recruitment fair is on and folks are busy.

So many delicious swiftboat threads to rec up, who's got time for the truth?

[ProSense]

128. Strange that this OP is being attacked for leaving out information, huh?