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Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:01 AM

Alan Grayson says, "This is not about President Obama. This is not about Snowden.

This is not about President Obama. This is not about Snowden. This is about us. This is about our conception of how we want to live as a free people. And again, it grossly offends me to have the government surveilling individuals' e-mails, their photos that they post online, every single telephone call that they make.


This comment was made to a question posed by Martin Bashir:

Mr. Grayson, do you find it a little bit galling to see conservatives who embraced these programs and, in fact, far worse, and now they suddenly have a problem with this because, of course, there's a Democrat in the White House.


Interesting that Republican Conservatives embraced the NSA/FBI spying when a Republican was president, and now the Democratic Conservatives are embracing the spying because a Democrat is the president. Can we spell hypocrisy?

The discussion between Bashir and Grayson was on MSNBC and forwarded via email by "Alan Grayson for Congress".

https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/graysononbashir?refcode=Jun2413NoCuts2013&amount=50

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Reply Alan Grayson says, "This is not about President Obama. This is not about Snowden. (Original post)
rhett o rick Jun 2013 OP
forestpath Jun 2013 #1
woo me with science Jun 2013 #2
Zorra Jun 2013 #3
Octafish Jun 2013 #6
Enthusiast Jun 2013 #22
rhett o rick Jun 2013 #35
Doctor_J Jun 2013 #42
ConservativeDemocrat Jun 2013 #43
eridani Jun 2013 #56
Zorra Jun 2013 #62
ConservativeDemocrat Jun 2013 #67
eridani Jun 2013 #68
davidthegnome Jun 2013 #73
PufPuf23 Jun 2013 #46
tavalon Jun 2013 #4
Le Taz Hot Jun 2013 #23
tavalon Jun 2013 #75
cynzke Jun 2013 #26
tavalon Jun 2013 #76
rhett o rick Jun 2013 #38
ancianita Jun 2013 #49
whatchamacallit Jun 2013 #5
rhett o rick Jun 2013 #12
L0oniX Jun 2013 #14
cynzke Jun 2013 #19
rhett o rick Jun 2013 #21
cynzke Jun 2013 #65
bobduca Jun 2013 #66
cynzke Jun 2013 #74
uponit7771 Jun 2013 #30
Marrah_G Jun 2013 #53
siligut Jun 2013 #7
WillyT Jun 2013 #8
Skip Intro Jun 2013 #9
silvershadow Jun 2013 #10
Catherina Jun 2013 #11
L0oniX Jun 2013 #13
navarth Jun 2013 #15
ReRe Jun 2013 #16
Enrique Jun 2013 #17
sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #18
Le Taz Hot Jun 2013 #25
rhett o rick Jun 2013 #37
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #20
limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #24
Bake Jun 2013 #27
Mustellus Jun 2013 #28
TalkingDog Jun 2013 #29
zeemike Jun 2013 #31
marions ghost Jun 2013 #32
rhett o rick Jun 2013 #34
marions ghost Jun 2013 #36
ancianita Jun 2013 #50
timdog44 Jun 2013 #33
felix_numinous Jun 2013 #39
JDPriestly Jun 2013 #40
Doctor_J Jun 2013 #45
nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #47
chimpymustgo Jun 2013 #54
Babel_17 Jun 2013 #71
Doctor_J Jun 2013 #41
MelungeonWoman Jun 2013 #44
NorthCarolina Jun 2013 #48
idwiyo Jun 2013 #51
bigwillq Jun 2013 #52
Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #55
Hell Hath No Fury Jun 2013 #57
cantbeserious Jun 2013 #58
Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #59
fascisthunter Jun 2013 #60
DirkGently Jun 2013 #61
DRoseDARs Jun 2013 #63
99th_Monkey Jun 2013 #64
blackspade Jun 2013 #69
delrem Jun 2013 #70
Dragonfli Jun 2013 #72

Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:08 AM

1. K&R

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:21 AM

3. "This is about our conception of how we want to live as a free people."

Another battle in the war for the soul of the Democratic party and the country.

IMO, it always generally comes down to this:

Progressives vs. Conservatives

From the outset of this country it was the same:

Rebels vs Tories

Jefferson and Madison vs. Adams and Hamilton

Democratic Republicans vs. Federalists

Democrats vs Republicans

Liberals vs Authoritarians

The People vs. the Banksters

Etc.

Here at DU, we have a microcosm of this battle for the soul of DU, the party, and for the country, and in essence, the battle here boils down to the same thing:

Liberal Progressives vs Authoritarian Conservatives

Liberal Progressives want the greatest amount of individual and collective privacy and liberty possible, and Authoritarian Conservatives want to sacrifice liberty and privacy for perceived safety and security.

"This is about our conception as to how we want to live as a free people."

Rep. Grayson rocks.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:32 AM

6. + Democracy

Thank you, Zorra! Thank you, Mr. Grayson!

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Response to Zorra (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:49 PM

22. Well said, Zorra...nt

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Response to Zorra (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:34 PM

35. Well said. Thanks for posting. nm

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Response to Zorra (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:29 PM

42. The model's been broken though

Now you have people who were, 5 years ago, sane left-of-center citizens, getting on board with everything this president does. This includes secret domestic surveilance, cuts to SS benefits, destruction of public schools, state-sanctioned torture, and so on. The personality cult has become a real danger.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:35 PM

43. Do you truly imagine you aren't just preaching to the choir?

You divide the world into two sides, your "pure good guy" side and the "evil bad guy side" (with a "huuuurrrrr, derp derp derp" for good measure). Most laughably you prefer the good guy slave-owning Jefferson vs those terrible Adams and Hamilton non-slave owning puritans, and pretend you are in a "battle for the soul of the Democratic party".

In truth though, you're just the mirror image of a teabagger, preaching to the choir while pretending you have moral agency in your terribly terribly uncomplicated world.

This is indeed about our conception as to how we want to live as a free people. Most Americans want to live free from the fear of people who will try to murder them for their political views (a.k.a. terrorists), and do not mind at all paying law enforcement to track these people down, including giving them limited authority to look at the outside envelopes of mail, and the outside "metadata" of email, when properly supervised by the courts. Others want our government to have no such ability, but fail to explain how the NSA's power over keeping a database of private details of your life is any different than that of the IRS, which maintains millions of private records on citizens used to support our tax system. That latter issue is no problem for Libertarians, since they'd get rid of the IRS (and the U.S. government and tax code), but it presents a terrible problem for actual Democrats.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

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Response to ConservativeDemocrat (Reply #43)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:39 PM

56. I want to live free of conservative terrorism

The NSA doesn't give a shit about that, and can't even be bothered to pay attention to many warnings about the Tsarnaev brothers. Not to mention totally blowing off "Bin Laden determined to atack in the US.

I also want to live free of the corporate dictatorship that NSA is upholding.

Right wing threats & attacks since 2008
http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/guns-democracy-and-freedom/insurrection-timeline

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Response to eridani (Reply #56)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 08:51 PM

62. Yep. Free of conservative terrorism, and conservative control on every level. nt

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Response to eridani (Reply #56)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 01:19 AM

67. You linked to a "Page Not Found"

Don't tell me. Let me guess. It was some froth-at-the-mouth conspiracy theory?
The NSA is "not paying attention to" the Tsarnaev brothers - who were actually investigated by the FBI, and released because there was no probable cause, which you say doesn't exist?
Obama, both king and puppet of the NSA's upheld corporate dictatorship, was behind 9/11?

I'd say inquiring minds want to know, but quite frankly, I'm not interested in fact-free ranting.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

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Response to ConservativeDemocrat (Reply #67)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 01:26 AM

68. I just checked the link and it works fine

Our "intelligence" can't be bothered to pay attention to the information they already have. Why do they need terabytes more information to ignore.

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Response to ConservativeDemocrat (Reply #43)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 11:00 AM

73. Actual Democrats?

How would you define such a thing as an "Actual Democrat"? As far as I can tell, the party has far too wide of a tent to be terribly specific about it. Unless, of course, you exclude either liberals, or conservative democrats. I have been a registered democrat since I was old enough to vote - and I find this big brother surveillance to be absolutely offensive not only to me as a democrat - but to me as an American.

Setting aside political parties for the moment, any American ought to be offended by this gross over-reaching of the federal government. The Patriot Act is despicable enough, but now it is somehow perfectly alright that the NSA is keeping records of every phone conversation, every email... investigating people who haven't done anything wrong? This is after the many instances of the abuse of prisoners of war, a number of which had never been charged with any crime. This is after the despicable treatment of Bradley Manning, the witch-hunt for Julian Assange, the arrests of so many people who haven't actually broken any laws or really done anything wrong.

Open your eyes. None of this is properly supervised or properly regulated - under which conditions I might be more willing to support the NSA and the President's administration in this particular area. The only way to properly supervise or regulate such an immense project is to be held accountable by the American people. Civilian authorities - not military, nor even federal, but a group that does not have a financial or political agenda here other than that of justice.

To sacrifice freedom for safety is beyond a grave mistake - accepting conditions under which we lose our personal freedoms in favor of government surveillance pushes the door wide open for any number of grievous abuses of the constitution and of our rights as Americans. No one has the "right" to read my emails, or listen in on my phone conversations without a warrant, without some kind of just cause.

The records maintained by the IRS are financial, they relate to employment and income and are used for tax purposes. The records maintained by the NSA here, could be used for any damn purpose they please - and who is to tell them what is unacceptable here? A congressman or Senator who has to worry about their own skeletons?

As a proud member of the non-koolaid drinking community, I must insist that your concept of reality is rather narrow. As a student of history, I would point out that when Government authority knows no bounds, when they over-reach in such a manner, tyrants are enabled. This was the case with Stalin, with Hitler, with Chairman Mao, with the Catholic church and both the inquisitions and the crusades.

I'm all for protecting Americans and saving American lives - but not at the cost of freedom, not at the cost of our civil rights.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:46 PM

46. Nice summary! Yes, the rhetoric of Rep. Grayson rocks.

Sad that there are those that profess for the USA, Democratic Party, and the Earth that would diminish the potential platform at Democratic Underground of Grayson and like minded pols.

"This is about our conception as to how we want to live as a free people." Yes!

Unequal treatment under the process of law and neo-liberalism (along with most "isms") need to disappear.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:28 AM

4. Where are the gang of five.

I thought they got up early and went to bed late, whether for money or obsessiveness. The naysayers are just a little late this morning. But I think I've decided that I will look at this thread this evening and each of the ones who show up are going on my ignore. I'm tired of seeing their names.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:51 PM

23. Allow me to be the first to volunteer.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #23)

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 01:08 PM

75. I'm actually talking about the paid ones

the ones who truly disagree, like you, I don't mind hearing from. I'm about to ignore the gang of five and I'm not going to say who they are because that's against community standards. I don't like this place to be an echo chamber, so I use ignore very sparingly. I have five ignored. To choose to double that takes a lot of thought. I've listened to these little Rush Limbaughs (and remember, you aren't one of the ones of which I speak) all week and realized, that paid or not, it was costing me to much to see their posts.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:59 PM

26. Ignore OK!

Everyone has the right to post here and express an opinion whether some like it or not. I am a liberal democrat but I don't march to any one tune. What I am tired of is people (on both sides) who don't like what other people are expressing, think those people should be censured, not allowed to comment at all.

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Response to cynzke (Reply #26)

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 01:12 PM

76. Not you either

I think this should be a forum of thought and discussion with many ideas brought up and hashed out. The gang of five is either paid or just not of use in a discussion forum. They are, for all intents and purposes, here to stir up shit. And it's wasting my bandwidth and time. I don't do this lightly, but these five, of which you are not one, are going to be put on ignore. Which doubles the number I have on ignore. As I said, I don't do this lightly but these five are just automatons, not having conversation but rather squelching it with their talking points and I am done with them.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:38 PM

38. So you dont agree with Rep Grayson? nm

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Response to tavalon (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:13 PM

49. WHO are the gang of five? Would you please name them, cuz I can't guess...

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:30 AM

5. There are people on this board posting hard and fast as they can

to make sure the truth of that message is blotted out.

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:03 PM

12. It's the authoritarian mentality that wants to punish whistle-blowers,

investigative journalists, protestors, Occupy, and liberals. They want the security of the authoritarian state.

Remember our founders were the criminals and the Loyalist Tories were the authoritarian conservatives that sided with the strong authoritarian King George.

We are clearly in a class war between the open-minded of the 99%, and the 1% and their conservative minions.

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:14 PM

14. Military, police and NSA blog grunts.

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:42 PM

19. Hogwash!

People expressing a different opinion does NOT blot out a message. Oh look, I expressed an opinion and we are all still here. Someone disagrees and you go off the deep end. The main thread is intact and everyones comments are posted. No one gets censored and no one's message is blocked by an opposing opinion.

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Response to cynzke (Reply #19)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:46 PM

21. People posting fast and furiously mimicking the Corp-Media's attempts at distraction.

People ignoring the elephant in the room and disparaging those that want to talk about it.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #21)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:53 PM

65. Well

No one should disparage other bloggers just because they hold different points of view. That is wrong. But every one here is free to talk about the elephant if they want. You just type about it and post. No one can stop that. No one is being deprived of bringing forth their opinions here. You can type out a lengthy post about the NSA and Prism and the next blogger could post their Grandma Tilly's peanut brittle recipe. Granted that would be a little weird and out of place, but it wouldn't detract from your previous comments unless it was someone who really loves peanut brittle. You can't filter out other comments and opinions. But that does not keep you from posting what you want and sharing it with others.

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Response to cynzke (Reply #65)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 12:10 AM

66. But I can filter out all the authoritarian NSA apologists

ignore works wonders to filter out those who seek to use dishonest rhetorical tactics to smear.

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Response to bobduca (Reply #66)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 04:40 PM

74. My Point Exactly!

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:30 PM

30. +1

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Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:47 PM

53. I don't see them anymore

So DU is much more enjoyable.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:38 AM

7. The GOP wants to make everything a partisan issue . . .

But as stated in another thread, presidents and the party in charge changes, the NSA just keeps going on with business as usual.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:45 AM

8. K & R !!!


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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:49 AM

9. K&R!

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:50 AM

10. K&R

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:03 PM

11. Thank you Representative Grayson! Keep it on track! n/t

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:13 PM

13. Tell that to all the cops, military and NSA government shills here...

who have been busy reframing and distracting.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:22 PM

15. I continue to celebrate the return of Rep. Grayson

And I too will check the thread later.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:31 PM

16. K&R

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:37 PM

17. I remember seeing that and loving Grayson's answer

Bashir and Karen Finney were trying to get Grayson to play along with their partisan angle, and Grayson declined. Good for him.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:42 PM

18. There are extreme partisans on both sides, but most Democrats I know, and a majority on DU have

not changed their positions just because a Democrat is in the WH.

Bashir SHOULD have asked another question:

Don't you think it's a bit galling that Democrats who opposed these programs when a Republican was in the WH are now embracing and defending them?

Grayson understands that this has nothing to do with parties, or should not have. The future of this democracy trumps party loyalty and does for most Democrats and to be fair, I did meet Republicans during the Bush era who were also concerned about the programs he was initiating.

In fact most of the Whistle Blowers who risked their careers and others who tried to stand up to Bush, were Republicans. This is why I have come to hate TV. It fosters the 'our team' v 'the other team' attitude which is so dangerous I see now because it divides people and while the people are divided the criminals are quietly continueing to rip this democracy apart, mostly for money, knowing that at any given time, they will have at least HALF the country goaded into defending them.

Good for them for a perfect plan. But so very bad for the country. The one thing they fear the most is that the people will finally wake up and stop the 'team' bickering and start looking at what is ahead of all of them on the road into the future. I have even come to believe that this is why Paul is used to attack people who oppose these policies with. Because he could bring both sides together on a few of these issues. And that is their worst fear.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #18)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:53 PM

25. ^THIS^

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #18)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:36 PM

37. Great point. nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:44 PM

20. Hey, NSA. I'll put this in terms you'll understand....

We are on a "Need To Know" basis.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:53 PM

24. Grayson is one cool dude. Seriously it's time to stop playing politics and address the issue. nt


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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:23 PM

27. Agree it's not about Snowden. But it IS about Pres. Obama

It's ALL about him and what we want our country to be like.

Bake

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:24 PM

28. Its very simple.....

Its the difference between Total Rove Awareness, with Karl listening in to the DCC, or Total Plouffe Awarness, with the RNC being monitored.

Or maybe we should rethink the whole thing.....

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:30 PM

29. I guess that makes Grayson a "Paulite" and a "racist" instead of a StellarWind detractor

Jus' sayin'.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:32 PM

31. Thank you Mr. Grayson.

I wish just half of democrats had the guts to speak out as you do...and if they did we may not be in this state of affairs.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:36 PM

32. Here's the video that's up on the ALan Grayson website:

#at=26

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #32)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:28 PM

34. Thanks for posting. nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #34)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:35 PM

36. K&R

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #32)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:19 PM

50. K & R

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:39 PM

33. Agree with Grayson totally.

Am so glad he is back doing what he does best. Stand up for the American people. Doing his job. And this is about us. This mass surveillance and metadata gathering is just plain wrong and totally unconstitutional. The thing I have not seen yet is what surveillance is acceptable. I am a believer that some surveillance is needed. I have not varied from that. I also have not varied on the fact that mercenary bottom feeders should not be involved in the process at all. They play for money and will play with any one. So, they need to be eliminated, along with many hundreds of thousands of personnel who have high security clearance, only because they are doing this illegally. I don't think many, if any, attacks have been averted by this mass data gathering. "They" say it has, but most of those assertions have proved to be false. So, again I ask, what surveillance is acceptable? To me that is the big question.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:29 PM

39. K&R

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:21 PM

40. I do not understand Bashir and other members of the press

who are not protesting this surveillance.

My metadata would not interest much of anyone outside of knitting and gardening companies. And I willingly gave them my information.

But if I were a member of the press, a journalist, I would be livid.

Why aren't we hearing from the journalism professors and professional organizations about the problems with tracking journalists' calls?

Why aren't lawyers screaming?

I can understand that individual journalists and lawyers might be intimidated, but their professional schools and organizations? Where are they?

Where too are the corporations whose business contacts are being identified through metadata and whose encrypted communications are being "saved"?

Where are they?

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #40)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:43 PM

45. I have four words for you

money, money, money, money

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #40)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:53 PM

47. hubby and i are credentialed presd

We are livid...we work for public access and public radio

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #40)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:03 PM

54. Excellent points. The silence and lack of focus is frightening. eom

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #40)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 09:55 AM

71. Large numbers of the top members of the press know who's paying their salaries

Much of the press no longer has connections to the rabble rousing, reforming, good government, roots that used to sustain good journalism.

Now, they graduate a good school and they have great skills at networking. They eventually find a job at the subsidiary of a giant corporation. That subsidiary likes to fancy itself a purveyor of news.

They read the copy they are given and eventually learn how to write their own that will get approval from their bosses and peers.

The state of investigative journalism tells the tale.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:24 PM

41. Grayson didn't get his pony

ratfuck ratfuck ratfuck ratfuck

K/R

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:43 PM

44. K&R

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:02 PM

48. K&R

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:42 PM

51. K&R

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:43 PM

52. ANTI-OBAMAIST!!!!!1111

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:10 PM

55. knr - YES some of the Republicans are being hypocrites - but I never thought I would see Al Franken

an any number of prominent liberal Democrats side with the all encompassing surveillance state against the Constitution and basic civil liberties

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:41 PM

57. Nice to see -

someone gets it.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 07:56 PM

58. K & R

eom

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 08:02 PM

59. Under the bus, he goes!

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #59)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 08:38 PM

60. they don't have a bus, they have a tiny minivan

Last edited Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:16 PM - Edit history (1)

they are losing their pathetic battle of propaganda, their efforts to inflate their size and strength is now nothing more than a used up balloon hanging on a fence post at a frat party.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 08:47 PM

61. Be interesting seeing them try to fit Grayson under the Partisan Apologist Bus


He's about 6' 6."

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:27 PM

63. But but but, Greenwald once associated with a porn site! RELEVANT and undermines concerns!

Also, racist.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:28 PM

64. This is downright awe-inspiring, for Grayson to weigh in like this.

Thank you Alan.

You and Sen. Warren would make a great ticket in '16?
You two are equally smart, gutsy and willing to make a
stand for common sense and for the constitution; so you
may have to flip a coin for who's POTUS & who's VP.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 01:30 AM

69. +1000

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 05:01 AM

70. Mr. Grayson: the cause of this dissonance is that R's and D's are identical on these issues.

The cause of this dissonance is that R's and D's organizational powers are *identical* on these issues.

All the while the people are being played and there is no organized voice of common sense to oppose it.

This is why we're getting fucked over.

Even though Pres. Obama says he "welcomes this debate", the debate isn't happening, it isn't being led by either D or R parties. Instead, these parties are playing the people. This might well be the most important debate of the 21st century, were it to occur, but it won't happen if we allow what is currently happening to continue, by allowing our politicians to be bought and branded.

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Response to rhett o rick (Original post)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 10:08 AM

72. kick /nt

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