To those who worry about how this will affect Obama.

[nadinbrzezinski]

Don't worry about him. He will be richly rewarded. And if all that matters is money, he's set. (Now historians, after the fall of the empire in particular, will not be kind to him...bush, Clinton, Reagan, but that is not in the near future)

You know who or what you should rightfully worry about? The coalition, the young who are beyond disappointed, the middle agers who simply are throwing arms in the air, the Social Security and veteran crowd who will be affected by chain CPI.

We all voted for change and hope and all that.

On the bright side, I have heard similar feelings from republicans. There is a certain malaise where people are just giving up. You know what happens when coalitions give up on Election Day? They stay home.

Now I know you will blame the hippies and far left radicals. I know that is predictable. Introspection is not the name of the game. But trust me, or not, I really don't give two shits about it...hope ain't gonna hunt that well no more...and people will stay home. You know why? They have concluded that it really matters little. It is a slow road to hell, or a fast one, but the people have no say.

That is what you should worry about...

Me...well don't care much for the process anymore. And I am not alone.

[Catherina]

1. Now it's going to morph into poor Obama against the world, missing the ENTIRE point.

How about we get on the right side of progress for once?

How about we sit home and mind our own business instead of acting like all the world's riches belong to us?

We all voted for change and hope and all that. And now we're getting some despite them.

Edward Snowden is neither the first, nor the last, to come forward. Expect more.

[Life Long Dem]

61. How about we come to the realization of the fact that Snowden didn't release anything new.

But is only making a scene.

Updated 5/11/2006 10:38 AM ET

The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.

http://yahoo.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm

[AverageMe]

66. We almost went to a second war in 1971, (other then Vietnam) four hours away

But how many of us know about that, other then the people directly involved (such as myself). There are many, many secrets that should be reveled, that those of us who did not have the courage of Mr Snowden, did not talk about.

[Coccydynia]

78. And racism and jim crow laws were old news

back in the sixties. Why did MLK waste his breath and embarrass JFK with his I have a dream speech back in 63?

[Life Long Dem]

79. I already pointed out Snowden is only making a scene.

[cui bono]

118. A scene that needed to be made.

Just because many knew what was happening and the Obama doubled down on what Bush started, doesn't mean it doesn't need to be said again. The fact that it has caused such an uproar proves that it did. These days things get out even quicker than back then what with Twitter and other social media avenues having come about and gotten so much more popular.

Does it upset you for some reason that it is now "making a scene"? I think it's a good thing. Better late than never.

[DCBob]

2. Not worried about Obama, Im worried about the carryover effect to Nov 2014 and 2016 elections.

If we also lose the Senate and the WH we are cooked.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Good, at least you get it.

Attacking part of the coalition will not fix it.

[DCBob]

9. wow, thanks for not so subtle insult.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. I stated a fact

Hippie punching has been ongoing here for ever, the party believes those damn hippies have nowhere to go...what happens when they stay home? Or decide to just participate in local elections? The ones to blame are centrists who take the base for granted and insults the base constantly

Obama can take care of himself, and he demanded we keep feet to fire and people are shocked when we do?

For the record, what people do with what has happened over the last 25 years (see, it's not just Obama) is up to the individual. I know what I will do...it's up to others what they do. Suffice to say it, I ain't getting invested in any DC pol again.

[DCBob]

14. I have never punched a hippie..

I love hippies!

[OilemFirchen]

17. "Hippie punching"

"the fall of the empire"

[Rod Walker]

21. Goddamn hippies!

[zeemike]

53. "little book of injustices"

It would not be a little book.
But I guess Narcissism is the new N word on DU....I hear it a lot.

[Bluenorthwest]

15. Define 'we'. I'm already cooked, you centrists and Republicans adore discrimination against us

so you abuse us financially and legally and emotionally no matter who the fuck is in your White Straight House. It is not my Senate. Not my nation. You straights exclude us from everything. Immigration bill? Cut the gay stuff, add a big wall, call that Democratic.
If Big Walls and No Gays is what you see as 'we' then you are 'we' with Republicans, not with me and my family.
Yeah, I know,they are worse! I'm just not sure that is really true or that the metrics matter than much.

[DCBob]

19. You have no idea how bad things will get if/when the GOP is able to take control of this country.

BTW, I'm not a centrist or a Republican. I'm a liberal with some moderate viewpoints. I don't know what you are.

[JW2020]

27. Republicans will take over again

Obama is just a stop gap to give the plebes the illusion of Democracy.

[xtraxritical]

65. Obama seems to be doing everything he can to hand the election to the Republicans.

I will, as usual since 1972, vote a straight Democratic ticket but I don't think it really matters much. I think the PTB care more about the independent voters than their base.

[HardTimes99]

71. What's amazing to me is that in January 2009, Obama had the Republicans on the

mat and down for an 8- or even 9-count. IOW, on the brink of polticial extinction as a national political party. Why he and his cohort (Rahm, et. al.) allowed those crazy bastards up off the mat will always mystify and mortify me.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

88. If Democratic Senators and Representatives really cared, shouldn't more of them speak up?

How many are going to wait until the 2014 election and, when the turn-out is lower, say that it's all out fault?

In the months going up to the 2008 election, I was sure that it was all over for the Republican Party. Not just in 2008, but forever. Then, like a boxer holding up a palooka, Obama has time and time again brought high-level Republicans into his Administration and adopted Republican policies.

[Bluenorthwest]

73. I know exactly what they have been like under both Parties, same as you do, why you think

you have the standing to tell me what I have no idea about is beyond me. Do you think that is your right as a straight guy? Because it is not.
I'm a Democratic liberal raised by Democratic liberals. That's also who i elect. A liberal does not preach at others that they have no idea in the same post that they say 'I don't know what your are'. Don't know what I am, but you know I have no idea?
So much hubris in your posts it is just hard not to be very rude to you.

[DCBob]

91. Why? Because you seem so flippant about the situation...

that being "cooked" now under the Obama administration is the same as being "cooked" under a GOP controlled government. That is complete and utter non-sense and it makes it difficult to take anything you say seriously.

[xtraxritical]

96. I don't think you are replying to my post. I said nothing like that.

[tblue]

101. All of us would be on the same side.

At least there'd be that.

[DCBob]

102. Good point.. and also probably all sitting in a dumpster.

[sabrina 1]

18. I'm worried that even if we, once again, 'vote for Democrats' which the base has

always done only to be insulted and attacked when they dare to expect to get what they voted for, we will get more of the same. I see 'democrats' supporting Bush policies, I see a Democratic administration overlooking good Progressive Dems for the cabinet, in favor of Republicans.

We still have Bush policies, some now enhanced since we threw out Republicans.

You are right to be worried about Dems losing the Senate and Congress. But who are blaming? You didn't say.

[DCBob]

23. I do believe we were legitimately moving left when we elected Barack Obama.

But the backlash from the Republicans and extreme RW put a damper on all that. Apparently they were freaked out by a black family in the WH and would have none of it. I think until we can beat down that mentality its going to be a tough slog to the left.

[Divernan]

47. Quelle surprise! You're playing the racist card! That's so last term!

[DCBob]

50. Ok, maybe I should have said..

they were freaked out a by a socialist, muslim, half-black guy in the WH. Is that better?

[bahrbearian]

93. Are you talking about a Moonwalk to the left

[DCBob]

94. Electing a half-black man, with a scary Arabic muslim name...

is quite a significant change for this country.

[bahrbearian]

95. Yes we elected a half-black man, with a Muslim name , so now we have to go Right of Center?

Why stop at an election, just to go back.

[DCBob]

97. No. My point was we were heading in the "right" direction but the RW freaked out..

and reacted by attacking him on all sorts of bogus issues and by blocking any legislation that made him appear to be a success. They have succeeded up to point by holding the economy hostage forcing some legislation that was less than ideal.

[bahrbearian]

98. He could walk Right past all of that by supporting Liberal causes, not by appeasement.

He bends to the Bogus Issues. He has a bully pulpit.

[DCBob]

99. sure.. is so easy to be POTUS and make it all happen just the way you want.

[bahrbearian]

100. The Right Direction is what he campaigned, on not what I wanted.

[Life Long Dem]

64. You see Democrats supporting Bush policies where he was illegally wiretapping?

Try again.

[busterbrown]

40. Definitely a valid concern!!

All these “hippies” and “far left troublemakers” are kind of set with their S.S. and Medicare and are ready to hunker down with their T.V., Music and Restaurant and movie nights.. I wonder what they will be thinking when the Republibaggers begin the immediate dismantling of these programs?

[DCBob]

52. I guess this was meant to be funny.

[busterbrown]

87. Not really..

If what you mentioned happens.. This could happen

[John2]

84. It may not

have dire consequences for Obama, but his actions do have consequences for future Generations and his children. This is what causes revolts, revolutions and rebellions. There are tipping points in History, when the people your decisions affect no longer tolerate Tyranny. That is when they are more prone to take violent recourses to bring about change, when nothing else works. They no longer believe in the system. So he maybe safe but he has to consider what it might be like for his children.

The older people get, it will not affect them either. For example the generation of the Civil War is dead and long gone. I doubt anybody from that era would recognize this country today, and its leaders would be shocked at the President of the United States being Obama. It is what future Generations would think of him and his descendants will feel the effects of his decisions. He will be seen either negatively or positively by people. I know which side, that I would want to be on, and that is the side of the oppressed.

[tavalon]

114. But what is "lose the Senate" or "lose the house" for that matter

We have so many third wayers and blue dogs a "majority" is only a majority on paper.

[DissidentVoice]

125. The bloody DLC again!

The DLC is responsible for the destruction of the Democratic Party.

Ever since 20 January 81, the Democratic Party has felt it needs to be as "Republican-lite" as possible.

There have been no progressives/liberals.

I realised that when Bill Clinton rolled over and played dead for the GOP on health care. I almost voted for Perot in 1996 because of the way he jumped on the "big government is dead!" bandwagon.

The whole thing on "making Democrats electable" is just "making Democrats not be Democrats any more."

[Lasher]

3. The fix is in.

Neoliberal candidates were the only ones who saw the light of day.

[CrispyQ]

123. By the 1st or 2nd debate, you can tell which candidates TPTB have selected for us to choose between.

I think TPTB deliberately chose Obama & Clinton as our choices, to give the appearance of a nation progressing, moving forward, going left. Of course, they are both wealthy corporatists who would never buck the status quo, although Obama did not sound so much like one back then.

I know a fair number of republicans & they are as disgruntled with their party as many of us are with ours. I see a big decline in the number of voters on both sides. People are getting disgusted with the obstructionism & pettiness of our well paid legislators. The whole electoral process is so corrupt & compromised with big money. Even the state level is swimming with money. It's a disgusting mess & more & more people are starting to feel that voting doesn't make a difference.

[Lasher]

126. On the record, the policies of Hillary and Obama are remarkably similar.

In November 2008 they seemed almost like the same person, insofar as policies are concerned. Go figure.

Staying home is just what Big Money wants us to do but what can you do when it all seems so futile?

[BumRushDaShow]

4. More Obama derangement syndrome. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Predictable.

More authoritarian attack the messenger bullshit.

You know I have heard these exact sentiments expressed this week by young Obama voters and older Romney voters...both feel it really matters little anymore.

[sabrina 1]

24. Yes, for those who think everything is about Obama, that is a good way to describe it ..

'Obama derangement syndrome'. People are worried about their families, their children, their very lives and future. Most probably don't care much about politicians in general, they are not their fathers, sisters, children. When it comes to the people they care mostly about their loved ones and their well being. People who care more about politicians are puzzling to me. I care only about politicians who care about and work for the people. The rest I don't give a second though to.

[L0oniX]

33. "politicians who care about and work for the people" soooooo old school.

[sabrina 1]

34. I know, I'm still stuck on that old, quaint document until something better comes along.

[Art_from_Ark]

121. It's a damn good quaint old document

[BlueCaliDem]

38. And hasn't it been the narrative around here that every ill we suffer is Obama's fault? Some don't

take into account that the president is not stronger than Congress, but Congress - especially the Republicans in Congress - appear to get a pass and all blame is laid at Obama's feet.

You are one of the DUers who is part of the brigade of the worst critics of Obama here, so yes, in my opinion and most Democrats' opinion here, there is a degree of "Obama Derangement Syndrome" happening, even to the point that those who complain so passionately have lost sight of the fact that they're talking themselves, and others, out of supporting the single party that's closest to their idea of perfection.

If this continues, the result will be a repeat of 2010, and the Republicans will be laughing at the Leftists that they're so caught up in their own perfect little world that they just sold out the country to these neo-fascists. The good thing is, the Latinos, Blacks, and Asians will pick up the slack, just as they had in 2012. And we're growing.

The "minority" in this country understand politics and political power more than most Leftists do. We understand nothing is perfect. There's no such thing, but in order to strive toward that perfect progressive country, we need a voice in our government or we'll be silenced. We understand we need a BIG voice in government if we want to see this country move forward in the way we believe is fair and right for all of us. We understand that this is still a winner-take-all, two-party system, and I'm hoping, with all of my heart, that the Leftists who waste most of their time attacking President Obama, will still see the light before the 2014 congressional elections and fight to put more Democrats, even those annoying BlueDogs who still vote 70% with Democrats, unlike Republicans and Teapublicans. Otherwise, the country is screwed and all the advances that happened under President Obama, will be eradicated, just as Bush eradicated all the good things President Clinton got through. And look where that got us.

[brett_jv]

46. Here, here ...

Couldn't have said it better ...

[Divernan]

48. 3rd Way talking points reprise - nothin' new here, folks. Move along.

[BlueCaliDem]

51. Typical EmoLefty rebuttal - nuthin' new here, folks. Move along. eom

[Bluenorthwest]

75. Except you are just name calling. Thrid Way is an actual group with actual talking points.

About Us

Third Way represents Americans in the “vital center” — those who believe in pragmatic solutions and principled compromise, but who too often are ignored in Washington.

Our mission is to advance moderate policy and political ideas. Our agenda includes: a series of grand economic bargains, a new approach to the climate crisis, progress on social issues like immigration reform, marriage for gay couples, tighter gun safety laws, and a credible alternative to neoconservative security policy.

Unlike traditional think tanks, we do not house scholars who work in silos on academic research. Instead, we are built around policy teams that create high-impact written products and innovative trainings to influence today’s debates.

Our ideas have been used by the President, members of Congress, governors, mayors and countless political candidates. Based on our record, the media has labeled us “the future of think tanks,” “incorrigible pragmatists,” “radical centrists,” and the “best source for new ideas in public policy.”
http://www.thirdway.org/about_us

See the difference? The other poster made an actual point and you just hurled petty made up internet slurs.

[BlueCaliDem]

109. The word "bitch" is technically not a slur, either. Just means female dog.

It's not what you use but how you use it, and even a blind man can read that the poster you're defending was being insulting. I will give as I get. I'm sorry that it doesn't meet your approval, but I've read some of your posts and I really don't believe that's such a loss.

[sabrina 1]

54. No, that has not been the narrative at all. He is the POTUS and does get criticism for

some of his policies, for me the most disturbing thing about this administration is the number of Republicans he has appointed to powerful positions. I don't get that at all. And that there are few to no actual Progressive Dems in his cabinet. He has favored Corporate CEOs, Bush holdovers for economic positions, and people such as Gates et al when surely we have some Democrats who are qualified to be in a Democratic Cabinety.

It's odd because if any DUer says one positive thing about Ron Paul the same people who have zero to say about the President going much further than that and returning Republicans to power after we threw them out, slam them with epithets and charges of being 'Paulites'. By that logic, the President is more than just a Comey/Ashcroftite' since he has the power to give them power and has done so.

What do you think of all these Corporate Ceos, Monsanto, Booz Allen (Clapper, Republican, CEO of Booz Allen, Director of Intel) and Republicans being in a Democratic Administration? We didn't vote for Republicans, but that is what the President is doing each time he appoints another Republican to such powerful positions.

[BlueCaliDem]

58. If you think that hasn't been the narrative, then you're either blind to tone of your own posts

of you don't want to see it.

If you're looking for perfection in any politician, you're setting yourself up for a world of hurt.

But let's not forget some unassailable facts. Despite all those Republicans in his cabinet, President Obama got a humongous amount of progressive legislation through, more than Clinton, and he got them signed into law. Of course, that was BEFORE people stayed home in 2010 {pissed off at the BlueDogs} and gave the Republicans power in the U.S. House and state legislatures and governorships. Now we pay the price for that petty act. But are you prepared for a repeat?

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. Predictable hippie punching

Good bye.

[BlueCaliDem]

108. I've always considered myself more of a Flower Power Child.

[caseymoz]

124. Close to perfection?

Don't give me that speech about nothing being perfect. That's not even what's being debated. If it were, I wouldn't have voted Democratic in every election I can remember and I wouldn't have donated hundreds to Obama in 2008 and what I could afford in 2012.

No, we're not discussing close to perfection. Close to mediocre is more like it. Close to anything honest. Close to minimally democratic. Close to respecting Constitutional rights. The President promises in his oath of office to uphold and protect the Constitution. That's the minimal he's expect to do. Read the Fourth Amendment. Is he upholding and protecting the Fourth Amendment. Yes or no?

The object, remember, is to hit the bulls eye, not come within a backyard of the target. And there's a time when your party is missing the whole target that measuring the distance compared to your opponent becomes irrelevant.

If you ask me, the only difference between Democrats and Republicans is that Democrats are smarter. Democratic candidates can pronounce "nuclear" and can usually be counted on to go a week without a gaffe. It feels better to be sure. However, I'm not sure when both parties are embracing fascism if smarter is better. All it means is that you can con your voters better.

Mark my words, the minorities are going to get screwed over more than anybody as this plays out. They are not going to fare well without an effective 4th Amendment. The War on Drugs is going to still be prosecuted disproportionately against them. It's hard, no impossible, to be treated equally when you're in prison.

However, I'll "see the light" when President Obama reverses himself on his surveillance and secrecy programs and reinstates the Fourth Amendment. It's nothing personal. If he does that, and I'll vote Democratic again. Not for anything else. Not any sooner. Don't even ask.

He's already gotten my vote twice. I gave him hundreds of dollars for his elections. I've voted for all Democratic candidates since I can remember. After this surveillance scandal, you don't have the right to ask that I do anymore.

No, President Obama hasn't "disappointed." He takes an oath to uphold and protect the Constitution, that's minimal requirement of his office. He hasn't disappointed; like Bush, he's done the exact opposite.

[Progressive dog]

83. ^^K&R^^

[MineralMan]

5. Who is worried.

I'm not. His supporters, in general, are not. His opponents are not. I don't know anyone who is worried about how "this" (whatever that is) will affect him.

Unfortunately, I suppose you won't see this, but I don't know.

But, I'm not seeing people who are "worried."

[sheshe2]

115. +1!

[CincyDem]

8. In 2008, I voted for hope. In 2012, I hoped for spine. If 2016, I'm happy...

...that I will have a different choice.

No doubt it will be the Dem but it pisses me off that I finally got to the point of voting FOR someone and after 8 years, his limited integrity has me back to voting against the other guys. Voting for a Rethug option - com'on...I'm angry but I'm not f'ing insane.

There is no question that O has more integrity in his pinky finger than any and all Rethug options. But here's the issue...on an absolutely scale, that's still not saying much. It's like saying his command of the English language is much stronger than that of a Golden Retriever or a dolphin. True, but not saying much.

I wish he had the balls to do what he said he would do.

[Auntie Bush]

44. Maybe he needs a congress that will work with him.

Dems were bummed he didn't do more by 2010 so they stayed home and look what that got us...a permanent Tea Party. Now it seems like were going to a have another 2010 like election. Good luck with that! Envisioning a Tea Party dominated congress and the SCJ's that they'd put in ... scares the HELL/SHIT out of me.

Say goodby to most all women's rights...including abortion
(That alone should scare every women to vote Dem)
Say goodby to Planned Parenthood, contraception, and Plan B
Say goodby to Gay marriage and Gay rights
Say goodby to the pristine Arctic
Say goodby to Polar bears....... sob!
Say goodby to nice pristine waters and rivers everywhere
Say hello to tar sands and oil spills in our oceans, rivers and communities
Say hello to contaminated food with less FDA agents
Say hello to an extremely conservative Supreme Court.
Say goodby to food stamps for the poor and ALL our safety nets
Say goodby to SS and Medicare as we know it.
Say goodby to ObamaCare!!!!!!
Say hello to a HUGE military budget and a decrease in everything else
Say hello to World War III and a permanent state of war.

There's a lot more but you can add them...I gotta go.

[CincyDem]

49. And maybe he needs to exert the "power of his office".

When O approaches the world with the mindset that his power is defined by others, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy...his power is being defined by others.

And they're defining it as somewhere between nil and zero.

So I'm not buying this "congress that will work with him". O and Harry have allowed the minority party to define a simple majority of 100 as equal to 60.

[Demeter]

56. Maybe Obama needs to stop lying...to himself first, and then others at home, and abroad

and renounce that stupid Peace Prize. Then we can talk.

[CincyDem]

57. OK - I'll buy that too. n/t

[John2]

122. That is my advice

to the President we elected. Why join the Evil Empire? If you can't lick us, you need to join us. It is never too late to change your ways. You are suppose to be working for us!

[RobertEarl]

11. The question of the day

How much freedom are you willing to give up so you can be free?

Put another way: We must kill some freedom so that we can save freedom.

People are walking away from action because they want to be free of the bullshit. Which is just how the masters have taught us. Good students, eh?

[Babel_17]

12. I think the young voters will be resistant to future candidates

We'll have to work extra hard to show that we are aware of their concerns. We'll need to rebuild our bridges.

Words alone won't do it so we're going to have to bring up younger activists to the fore. Another option is to get our candidates to get people with proven track records, on issues that concern the younger voters the most, onboard their teams.

Our task with other demographics will be easier by comparison, imo. They'll vote if presented with a clear choice.

Younger voters tend to take the sting of disillusionment to the point of not showing up at the polls. We're in big trouble if that attitude catches on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. imo...listening

To older voters...like the young...they are done as well.

Admitedly mine is an anectdotal sample.

[graham4anything]

31. Young voters grow up and become responsible adults. Voting is responsible.

after all, most young kids I know learned about how Dr. King working WITH the President LBJ, not against the president

and saw Dr. King fight against masks, not put one on.

Why do you think LBJ is ranked higher now, than he was twenty years ago.

[Monkie]

70. that worked out well for Dr. King didnt it, "they" shot him

maybe if Dr. King had put on a mask and fled to cuba and spread his message from there he would of had a life of peace and reached as many people as he did.
using assassinated civil rights giants for your petty points is sickening.

[graham4anything]

86. Dr. King fought AGAINST masks. The KKK wore masks. Dr. King fought against that with NO ego.

Dr. King fought AGAINST masks. The KKK wore masks. Dr. King fought against that with NO ego.

And Dr. King is and will be til the end of time millions and millions of years from now, and even after that,
Dr. King will be remembered forever.

How did it work out you have the audacity to ask?

Anyone who stands with Rand and Ron Paul is attempting to bring back the days of 1859, like Paula Deen and zimmy from
florida wish to do.

Rand Paul, David Duke, Ron Paul, Jorg Haider all believe in all the same things George Wallace did.

Thank God for Dr. King and LBJ doing what no one else did.

And they are forever immortal.

Seasons come and seasons go, and many have 15 minutes of fame.
Some have another 15 minutes of fame 30 years later.


Dr. King is for all times like the 44 Presidents, like Jesus, like Gandhi, forever remembered.

Am I the only one queasied by the response #70?
But then, this is America, and we are all FREE to say whatever we want, just like two months ago, nothing has changed,
no freedoms have been lost.

Elect Rand and Ron and Jeb, and see what will happen to ones freedom.

Dr. King gave his all, foresaw his end, stayed and fought and did not flee, and in the freedom he won 100% of what he was saying, and he will be remembered forever.

We are all born to die. Dr. King and a smidgen of other people lived 1000 years of life in their own mortal life.

Maybe you should make your remark as an OP.
I bet one would give you some very choice answers in that.
Perhaps too, you could make a post in the religious section of this board.
I bet one would give you some very choice answers too.

Maybe the people with masks are all too young or too naïve, and thought the V for vengeance was kool or something and didn't realize what they were connotating with masks based on a rightwing UK terrorists who blew up buildings and killed.

But I bet not one person connected every thought about masks and what masks mean to people who were the victims
of racism, sexism, homophobia, and every other prejudice known to mankind.

Because Dr. King fought against prejudice of all kinds, and Dr. King fought against masks.

It is truly amazing. I really think there is one major disconnect in a world where people actually are defending Zimmy and Paula Deen
in 2013, and standing with Rand and Ron.

[freshwest]

90. Shows where some stand, not with civil rights, only civil liberties. They ignore history.

If it doesn't affect one, that doesn't matter. That's as clear as it gets. The faux slavery that libertarians complain about, is not the same as the real things that loss of civil rights, power over one's body, voice and power to make a living. Those who think that standing aside from cleaning up the government, or any other institution in this country, are effectively voting for the status quo that lesser mortals have organized to change. They want to see some oppression?

Fine, stand aside, toss rocks and see how far that gets them, as those who did dirty their hands and got involved are the majority and will make the rules. If they were so rough and tough, or truly believed in any of the lofty bullshit they spew, they'd be in office right now doing something.

'Don't tread on me' was started by those who didn't care when others were trodden upon, so they shouldn't be surprised when what goes around, comes around. They still don't care, but the ones they don't care about, well, hell, they got organized and voted and created government.

Those who seek to separate the results of the sexy anarchy they promote from the right wing goals, because 'no government' is going to help out just fine, are mentally masturbating their ego. This is not a long term strategy and no amount of yelling will make it worth hearing. They are complicit in the strongest way with oppression. In fact, they're encouraged by those who intend to use it to consolidate regressive policies. And I'm sure the suckers all think they are originals, when they puke up exactly what the Koches want to see, from the left or the right. Foxnews suckers are not the only kind, but have found their kindred spirits here. Hum, how did that happen - swallowing the scandal du jour, cooked up and presented by paid shills?

Another surprise. Those who think that politicians are beneath them and not get involved, will be under the feet of those same people. Yes, you will get exactly what you deserve at their hands, because you were so offended. I'm glad all this putrid self-indulgent, infantile talk is coming out to see who the allies are, who can be depended on in a fight. Those who take this seriously enough, get in for the long haul, not consuming the circus sideshow. And the circus will leave town, and nothing of the drama will have changed anything.

Just a for my friend g4a.

I appreciate your post,

[zappaman]

92. Holy shit!

I can't express how well your "rant" has summed up this situation!
Well done!
This should be an OP.
Especially, now that some members want DU to become LU.

Bravo!

[sheshe2]

111. Bingo!

Those who take this seriously enough, get in for the long haul, not consuming the circus sideshow. And the circus will leave town, and nothing of the drama will have changed anything.

Increments, baby steps. The long haul. This will help build and change our future.

Damn freshwest, well said!

[ForeignandDomestic]

103. You couldn't be so wrong if you tried!!

I'm sure Dr. King would approve of Obama's Drone bombing that have killed children in multiple sovereign countries and the arming of Syrian Cannibals!!

[link:

|

[DissidentVoice]

127. Dr King would be horrified at his "legacy"

A modern-day martyr who took a bullet simply for standing up and saying that, yes, we ARE all created equal!

But now...in the eyes of the SCOTUS, corporations are "people."

We have "free speech zones." Dr King's "free speech zone" was wherever he happened to be preaching/speaking at the time!

"Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, we're free at last?"

No, Dr King...certainly not in the way you envisioned, and that's a horrible stain on what you gave your life for.

[graham4anything]

13. The whole point of these smears(all repudiated) are to help Gomez win On Tuesday. We already know

that is the goal

I would hope no one on DU is secretly hoping for Gomez to win.

[totodeinhere]

81. Oh come on. How many DU readers do you think are Massachusetts voters

who will be influenced by what is said here? Probably no more than a handful. I submit that nothing that is said at DU will have any affect whatsoever on the results of that election, which Markey will win in a landslide.

[JustAnotherGen]

82. +1

[sheshe2]

116. No~

We got that covered in Massachusetts! We are going to kick Gomez's ass!

Tuesday June 25th. Vote!

This is the beginning...2014 will be the end. After that we concentrate on 2016!

Thanks Graham!

[MjolnirTime]

16. Do you ever sit back and objectively view your own pettiness?

You are never going to get your way in this World.

Knowing that makes your drivel more bearable.

[Harmony Blue]

22. Everyone is entitled to their opinions

In my opinion a more liberal, progressive world is a better world. If that makes you queasy too bad.

[RC]

42. +10

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. more predictable

[Sheepshank]

32. speaking of predictability

122,000+ posts of predictability. lol

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. Well some of us do have a moral center not defined by letters

and some do not.



Another predictable attack.

Good bye. If you want to do yourself a favor, do it mutual.

[Sheepshank]

128. this is just plain funny...didn't you just dish very same predictable words on this thread?

haa haa....priceless.

As for the moral center...almost makes it sound like creamy caramel center.....may I suggest that we all have one and not just some. I'm not even sure what you mean by that?

[sabrina 1]

37. I think what she 'wants' is what all Democrats want, a Progressive, Democratic Congress and

WH. If we don't even try to get that, as you suggest, we get nothing at all.

'Aim for the sky and you might hit a tree'.

I'm with her, I want a truly progressive government because the alternative stinks as we have seen.

Not sure what you want, you haven't said.

[Bluenorthwest]

68. I just sat back and objectively viewed your transparency page.

Seeing it grow does not make your toxins more bearable, but it does indicate they will have a short shelf life.

[Egalitarian Thug]

20. What we should be worrying about now is to whom the disaffected will turn.

As it stands now, the Democrats are toast next year. We've already seen the republicans turn to 'anybody but' and send a flock of morons, charlatans, and clowns to DC. Significant numbers of republicans are no longer identifying themselves as republican and even formerly reliable spokespersons, like Jerry Doyle and Michael Smerkonish are pandering to these unrepresented, pissed off people.

[Faygo Kid]

26. At least he has held the line against the insane GOP

Not good enough, I admit, but it's not a small accomplishment.

Would that he be a transformational figure for more than his race, but that's not going to happen, folks.

"Chained CPI," indeed. C'mon, Barack, take these figures of darkness on and beat them. Oh well. . .

[Gman]

29. There are disappointments, no doubt. But

don't forget the good at the same time.

[retired rooster]

30. ...I reallydon't give two shits about it...

Would you give three shits about it?

[pasto76]

36. in the meantime pay no attention to the SCOTUS rulings, which are far more scary than NSA stuff

all the headlines right now are about SNOWDEN ON THE MOVE. who cares. I dont. I asked all the guys at work if they had heard about the SCOTUS ruling on our 5th amendment. Nope. but they know everything there is to know about snowden. awesome. keep up the good work guys.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. some of us can chew gun and walk at the same time

some cannot.

I guess the Fifth (horrible but predictable ruling in context of everything else) is more important than the fourth.

FYI the first the fourth and the fifth have been utterly gutted. Try to connect those dots.

[RC]

39. WE voted for change and they hoped we would not notice what that change was, till it was too late.

I'm still hoping it is not too late for the change we really wanted.

[Skip Intro]

41. It should be about upholding our core rights and freedoms

enshrined in our Constitution, from an out of control government that works to trample and dismantle them rather than protect them.

It is about this, not Obama or even party.

[RC]

45. Obama and the party are just bricks in the wall.

A means to the end.

[donnasgirl]

43. I couldn't agree more

You have summed it up extremely well, it is about time people call the politicians who we support on to the coals so to speak.
The people need to remover their collective heads out of the arses, and as you say I see republicans bitching about the same things you describe.
I will say what I am about to say with a high degree of certainty, it is time to drop the R and D labels and get these problems under control, and I am sorry to report that you will need the help of regular Republicans not the upper class ones the one's who live out here like the rest of us who are taking it in the shorts.

[Fearless]

55. The only thing I'm worried about are the core values of the Democratic Party

Of that I'm petrified. Obama has now rendered himself useless.

[ProSense]

59. How did Wikileaks "affect Obama"?

The President just came off a landslide win. He just returned from a well-received tour of Europe.

The glee and hyperbole over Greenwald/Snowden's attempt to embarrass the U.S. and create an international incident is a sight to behold. Everyone should have seen that the goal wasn't a debate over the NSA as much as it was to embarrass the U.S.

I mean, countries are expected to take their opportunistic pot shots.

The dust will settle on the hype and misinformation, and any issues that need to be addressed will be.

President Obama has been one of the most successful in international relations, and that's not going to change.

[humbled_opinion]

60. You know there really is a solution

That is that we back candidates that will really fix the problems not just rhetoric and stale promises of hope and change.... I am a Hillary Clinton supporter but I could easily be swayed to support Howard Dean if he engages the electorate with the Passion he had in 2004, I was stirred by his positions on our foreign and domestic policy..... My point Obama has done many good things to advance the Progressive agenda but mostly on the Social issues side, the jury is still out on his handling of the economy and I have grave concerns about his handling of Privacy issues...

That is exactly why a candidate like Howard Dean would bring the reforms to the problems that we face today...

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. I have a small circle of friends

We used not to talk politics since well, Rs and Ds, and the Bush years, well, you know the drill. These days... both sides have torn money requests up, unsigned from Email lists, and simply intend to just walk away from the whole mess. Those folks are not going to show up at the polls. I urged them to keep attention to LOCAL elections where some difference can still be made... no, not at city council silly, judge elections. They might show up for that... looking for judges that believe in that godamned piece of paper and might slow the spiraling down.

I can't quite walk away, since it pays the bills. So will keep covering mostly local politics, some national. And yes, I supported Dean back then too. I don't think I can bring myself (and I am not alone) to believe the rhetoric from any DC pol any more. It was funny, when I explained how it worked in Mexico back in the day... they all nodded. We are all with the PRI now. We make a better pretense of a "two party system." But where it matters, such as the national security state, there is no light between them. When it comes to crashing the SS system, there is very little light between them

Yes, some congressmen believe in this stuff. Some senators too. Have you wondered why none are in the committees that matter? That alone is telling. If any of those people was my rep, I would still vote for them, in the full knowledge that it is all a good play. Otherwise... well... I think I will vote my conscience from now on. Lesser of two evils ain't gonna work, SCOTUS, ain't gonna do it either. We are in a bad spiral now... I am now sure that voting ain't gonna stop it.

This is what empires do... and inevitably they all close in and eat their own close to the end.

America, love it or leave it... I guess I love the ideal too much... to just yet leave it.

[humbled_opinion]

130. Sorry I was away on vacation

but I simply love your response.... and Ditto.... keep up the good fight and I will too, so that makes at least two of us... we have a quorum .... so back to my wine until later... Peace!!...

[HardTimes99]

69. K&R for the excellent discussion you have generated. Thanks though

for starting my week on high paranoid alert

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. I remember debriefing a young kid

who saw her family murdered by the Guatemalan army, and was subjected to horrors that most here can't imagine. Well I wanted to feel sorry for her. In all her pain and all that, justifiable mind you, she said something that to this day I live with. "You are as free as you decide to be in your mind."

That is the last recourse we all have... inside our heads. It is also taught to troops around the world by the way.

[NRaleighLiberal]

74. I worry about no politician, because I've long realized that they pretty much all (with few

exceptions) are in a protected, distorted bubble, protecting themselves and bending to the will of the lobbyists, bankers, and big business most of all. With age comes the sadness and clarity of the reality that we live in.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. I understood that at 18

and then made the foolish mistake of falling for it in 2008 and buying the tripe...

In 2012 I voted for him since well, the alternative was too much to bear.

In 2016 I intend to vote my conscience, assuming I do.

As you said, they are in a bubble and the country can go to hell.

[Autumn]

80. Obama will be fine. No matter what happens to the American people

he has the power and the wealth to weather whatever may come.

[Iliyah]

85. Too bad he cares about the American people, ugh

Terrible it terrible and yes, personally I don't worry about him cause hopefully with some help from congress re:2014 the economy will get stronger and my gosh even through the grace of . . can regain the American dream which has been snuffed out ummmmmmmm doing a certain period of time.

But alas, thread after thread after thread. Vote another party then but vote.

[DirkGently]

89. No third term? n/t

[GoneFishin]

104. I was excited when BO won the first time. But I have experience with people who say one

thing and do another. I knew, after the left was called f*cking retards by his chief of staff, and regarding the left he also stated that they had no choice except to vote for BO again, that I was not going to vote for POTUS. Four years later, when he starting making promising speeches I felt that old sense of hope again, but I knew I was being had.

I promised myself I was not going to be fooled again, and I wasn't.

And, I know I am not the only one that connected the dots after the first screwing.

So like the old saying goes, "fool me once ..... err .... uh ... don't get fooled again!"

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. And this is precisely what should worry partisans

(To be fair on both sides based on some local conversations). People are giving up on the system. This is not a good thing. When people give up...it can get explosive. For the record that is one of the reasons for this police state apparatus.

[GoneFishin]

107. If the party puts up a good candidate I will work for the cause. But I am not going to

Last edited Sun Jun 23, 2013, 09:05 PM - Edit history (1)

knock myself out anymore for a slightly less to the right than the other guy candidate. I think if the party puts up a conservadem in 2016 they are going to lose a portion of their base that was a given in 2008.

[WillyT]

110. EXACTLY !!! - K & R !!!

[Rex]

112. I'm not sure why anyone should be worried.

All this hair on fire drama is silly.

[Amonester]

117. They want a repuke majority in the Senate in 15 months so they can impeach...

President Obama, and repeal all the good stuff he did, and then some more...

Then they will be happy to come here and call for revolution, I guess, and that will be it.

[Dragonfli]

119. Define "they" please, I have never read a post here advocating what you claim

Unless of course what you posted was intended simply to frighten crows away from your crops....

[tavalon]

113. That dog don't hunt

I always loved that phrase.

It's the end of empire. Never pretty.

[BrainDrain]

120. Soon it will start.....

The "look if we don't support (fill in name here) then the republicans will win the Senate/WH/state house/govenors mansion and we will all be screwed." cry of the eternal party supporter. We're DEMOCRATs and "we" have to stick together, blah blah, blah.

Big hint, No we don't.
If you want to vote for the same ole same ole, please feel free t do so. Just don't expect the rest of us to help in any way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. That is what these folks are missing

Indeed