Valerie Plame: Edward Snowden Deserves Thanks, 'Will Be Abused'

[Generic Other]

Former CIA agent Valerie Plame said Wednesday that she views NSA leaker Edward Snowden as neither a hero nor a traitor, but that Americans should be grateful that he brought the conversation about liberty and security to the national forefront.

"I don't think [Snowden's] a hero, I don't condone what he did. At the same time he's certainly not a traitor as he was called by Dick Cheney," Plame told HuffPost Live host Mike Sacks. "In a way, we as U.S. citizens owe Edward Snowden a thank you for having brought this issue to the forefront and so that we can begin to have a serious and genuine conversation about these issues."

Plame also rolled her eyes at Cheney labeling Snowden a traitor, given the Bush administration's involvement in leaking her identity to columnist Robert Novak.

"The irony of people like Dick Cheney or Karl Rove whining and bemoaning the fact of the leak of intelligence -- given my history and certainly Dick Cheney's intimate involvement with the betrayal of my CIA identity -- is really something," she said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/19/valerie-plame_n_3466824.html?ncid=webmail1

[carolinayellowdog]

1. Plame's opinion deserves respect as coming from an intelligence expert

not that it will get any from authoritarians who have already disrespected or ignored so many others

[sabrina 1]

33. No she won't get any respect from them. They are on a mission and ANYONE who threatens

it in any way, will find themselves joining all the other former respected members of the Democratic Party.

I was told yesterday eg, that Cheney was only supporting Obama to make Obama look bad. Well the part about Cheney supporting you making you look bad is true of course. But the sheer stupidity of that latest talking point is mind boggling. It implies that Cheney actually doesn't support this massive surveillance program. And anyone who thinks that, that he is only saying he does to 'make Obama look bad', has completely lost it imo.

No one can make someone look bad if they are not doing anything wrong. But definitely having Cheney and the rest of the neocons who invented these surveillance program on you side, should cause any decent person to rethink their position.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

54. That last sentence...

"But definitely having Cheney and the rest of the neocons who invented these surveillance program on you side, should cause any decent person to rethink their position."

This one, however, "No one can make someone look bad if they are not doing anything wrong," is false.

[AzDar]

2. Ms. Plame...

[Submariner]

15. Get in line AzDar

She is mine if her old man dumps her.

[DFW]

53. I don't know how to break this to ya........

But as long as my wife doesn't find out, I'm already in line ahead of both of you!
[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[Submariner]

61. Well....that's just mean

I'm jealous. I obviously need to get out more.

[DFW]

65. LOL!!

Yeah, the world never seems to beat a path to our door, does it?

She is wonderfully nice and unbelievably smart. Easy on the eye, too, but you didn't need me to tell you that.

[DFW]

68. I have some comforting news for you, come to think of it

I think it was my wife who shot that photo, so unless fate is cruel enough to take her from me, Valerie is all yours. Don't even THINK of messing with Joe, though, if he's still in the picture--they are one very devoted couple: a word to the wise and all that .

[Submariner]

69. Here's hoping she is happy with her family then

I'll just comfort myself over a Mai Tai or two when I retire to Maui next month.

[DFW]

72. I've only been to Maui once

From what I could tell, there are worse places to retire

[backscatter712]

3. Plame thrown under the bus in 3...2...1... n/t

[90-percent]

20. Plame thrown under the bus in 3...2...1... n/t

This needs correction. This time its:

Plame thrown under the bus PART DEUX

-90% Jimmy

[WillyT]

4. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[Cleita]

5. What I want to know is why Dick Cheney isn't getting the same

justice dished out to him that Bradley Manning is getting and that Edward Snowden, no doubt will get in the future? What he exposed was far more sensitive and heinous in nature than what Bradley Manning exposed. Why are his actions not crimes too? He is not a medieval king immune from prosecution for the crimes he commits.

[G_j]

6. I'm pretty sure he is

"immune from prosecution for the crimes he commits." I cant help but think of Henry Kissinger still living the privileged life.
With Obama in office, Cheney and gang appear to be immune.

Hoping for a better future..

[Generic Other]

13. She "rolled her eyes at Cheney"

That's the harshest indictment any one in government has made to date against the treasonous slug Cheney.

[bigwillq]

7. K and R (nt)

[marmar]

8. Can someone start an "Under the Bus" thread?

I'm sure Valerie Plame is about to get tossed under.

[Generic Other]

9. You need one of those articulated busses

so there's room for everyone!



Ironically, this is a "speak no evil bus," exactly the sort they will be thrown under.

[marmar]

12. ROFL.....

[gholtron]

42. I take this bus home every day.

oposed to the redline.

[xtraxritical]

48. There's a redline in Chicago? I have not been home for a long time.

[timdog44]

55. It is down for reconstruction

for the next few months.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Mr. Plane avoid the exhaust pipe.

We are a good freedom loving bunch

[ProSense]

11. I have

"I don't think a hero, I don't condone what he did. At the same time he's certainly not a traitor as he was called by Dick Cheney," Plame told HuffPost Live host Mike Sacks. "In a way, we as U.S. citizens owe Edward Snowden a thank you for having brought this issue to the forefront and so that we can begin to have a serious and genuine conversation about these issues."

...no problem with her quote. I don't think he's a hero. He sparked a debate, but he still committed a crime. One thing is certain, the story is still unfolding.

She says: "Perhaps he could have done it in a different way, but that's not the conversation we should be having."

Well, fleeing the country and his actions in Hong Kong is why he became the story.

Oh, and I definitely agree with her comments on Cheney.

[Generic Other]

14. So she's not getting thrown under the bus with the rest of us?

Marmar will be so disappointed!

[burnodo]

19. kick

where are the attacks on Plame?

[flamingdem]

31. Context is everything

"He sparked a debate, but he still committed a crime."

Plame is smart. Seems she'd be just fine with him coming home to the good ole USA to face justice.

[marble falls]

50. My retired CIA wife feels the same way. I'd like him stand trial just to get the information ...

out and on the record in the proceedings. I'd like to know if he really is a patriot or not if he has the courage of his convictions, he really does seem to have broken the letter of the law and if the law needs to be changed his testimony will help make it change. Otherwise the issue changes from overweening NSA intelligence gathering to a turncoat's evasion from justice.

[kenny blankenship]

62. Really? Is Bradley Manning's trial about getting the warcrimes he exposed on the trial record?

Was John Kiriakou's trial about getting the details of the CIA torture program on the record?

What boundless naivete.

[marble falls]

71. Bradley Manning is being tried for breaking the laws regarding his work with intellegence ...

and keeping that which was classified secret. His defense is that there were pieces of information being kept secret that had an over riding need to be exposed to the US public. And then there are also those specific charges he's already plead 'guilty' to. Arguing that defense will require making a record of those secrets. I think I have a real good grasp of the situation, thankyou very much.

[whatchamacallit]

35. And just like that the tune changes

[JDPriestly]

36. No. I disagree.

He did not become a story because he went to Hong Kong, at least not for me.

Edward Snowden is not the story. The story is the surveillance which chills the exercise of many of our rights and is therefore, in my opinion, probably unconstitutional.

[LiberalLovinLug]

52. Exactly

She says: "Perhaps he could have done it in a different way, but that's not the conversation we should be having."

Well, fleeing the country and his actions in Hong Kong is why he became the story.

Its a bait and switch tactic used by the MSM all the time. Just like the story is not (cannot be) about the revelations Manning exposed...the story is reshaped into being about how technically he broke the law, or that he must be mentally unstable with gender issues, or else its about how Assange is an arrogant sexual deviant and Wikileaks is not a real journalistic enterprise, or any other tangent that will take the focus off of what was actually revealed and having a debate around that.

[L0oniX]

44. Yea he should have stayed here and joined Maning in a torture chamber.

[warrprayer]

16. The Decemberists

wrote a great song fo her

[Hydra]

17. Grand ironies

People like Plame, Manning and Snowden vilified and abused because of the truth coming out.

Meanwhile, the worst of us live without fear of their highly illegal actions.

Down is Up.

[Generic Other]

18. I have been channeling Orwell all day

by tinfoil hat according to another on DU. Whatever!

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."

[BlancheSplanchnik]

41. and the best people keep dying while the scum live on and on and on. n/t

[nashville_brook]

21. kr

[KoKo]

22. Wow...that's a Huge Endorsement!

[Autumn]

23. Recommended

rolled her eyes. That woman is remarkable.

[DirkGently]

24. "...thank you for having brought this issue to the forefront"

That's about the size of it.

Prepare to be re-outed by Cheney and the Cheney-esque, Ms. Plame.

[Quixote1818]

26. K and R

[kitt6]

27. From the looks of it;

Americans need one great big Nerve, anxiety pill!

[Uncle Joe]

28. I believe Valerie Plame has a nice, balanced and most appropriate point of view.

Thanks for the thread, Generic Other.

[Puzzledtraveller]

29. k&r

[kitt6]

30. Dick Cheney and Bush

are laughing at you!

[sabrina 1]

32. If anyone knows the the abuses of allowing disreputable and unethical people to have access to

people's personal information, it is Valerie Plame. Thanks to her for speaking out. She still has not received the justice she deserved. Maybe some day.

And Cheney is too stupid to keep his nose out of our business, he appears to forget that he is no longer President, I know, but Dubya was just window dressing. When he opens his mouth in support of something you oppose, you know you are on the right side.

I believe his ratings around the globe are in the low single digits. He is widely viewed as an unindicted War Criminal, a liar, a traitor for what he did to Valerie Plame not to mention all the crimes he committed.

Some day justice will be done, it may take time, but it will. They have created too many victims and while they want people to forget, they look at S. America, 40 to 50 years later, finally people are getting the justice that eluded them for so long.

[timdog44]

58. Agreed. Valerie Plame

was outed, feloniously, treasonously by Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and the unforgotten traitor, Robert Novak.

She has taken a very reasonably tack to say Snowden was not a hero nor a traitor. I agree with that. The information he exposed is the subject and should always be. All these people making Snowden more important than the story just reinforces his motives, in my opinion.

Hopefully justice will be done to the traitors Cheney, Rove and Novak.

But on to the subject of the day and hopefully of a long time to come. The spying, illegal spying, of Americans. And even worse by the mercenary groups the government has outsourced this to. Mercenaries are bottom feeders, selling their wares to the highest bidder. Surveillance in America should only be done judiciously and legally by American government persons.

[Enthusiast]

34. Valerie gives Cheney too much credit.

K&R

[Nanjing to Seoul]

37. Ms. Plame will get smeared by DUers that spout the same crap as Cheney, Graham and

Bachmann in 5. . .4. . .3. . .2. . .1

After all, Snowden ran to Hong Kong!

[L0oniX]

45. The "Snowden should have stayed here" talk is some of the most stupid shit I've seen on DU.

After what they did to Bradley Maning who would stay here?

[backscatter712]

60. Exactly! Getting out of Dodge isn't cowardice, it's common sense.

Don't think that the same shit doesn't happen in civilian jails and prisons.

If you're on the shit-list (and I have ZERO doubt that Snowden is), they'll be doing lots of harassment. In Bradley Manning's case, it was declaring him "suicidal", throwing him in the Hole, stripping him naked and harassing him every 15 minutes, 24/7 for months and months.

Maybe what would happen to Snowden would be a different, depending on circumstances, but just as much psychological torture. Snowden's marked as an enemy of the (police) state, therefore standing orders are to make his life complete hell.

[kenny blankenship]

63. And Daniel Ellsberg agrees with Plame - Snowden right to leave

Snowden would have been whisked to Gitmo or some other military brig within 24 hrs of his disclosures if he had remained within reach. There are very few places where he would be safe from immediate apprehension or assassination. Ellsberg remained free on bail during the course of his trial and was able to defend himself in the court of public opinion and could contest the things the government said about him. Compare that to Bradley Manning's 900 plus days kept in cruel and inhumane conditions before receiving a trial. We live in a completely different time.

According to Ellsberg, Snowden was smart to get out of the country. If he had leaked like Ellsberg did, his anonymity would have been blown instantly by the govt's review of Greenwald's contacts. It would not be a matter of a journalist or a newspaper being unable to hold out against the govt's demands for the leaker's identity. The government would not need their cooperation. Snowden would have been arrested immediately and he would be stashed somewhere out of the way where he'd be unable to tell his story. His revelations would be quickly buried, and his right to a fair and speedy legal process ignored. Anything he had on the NSA that he failed to dump on the public in his first batch of disclosures would never get out at all.

[kitt6]

38. It's not about the little man

Investigate the Carlyle Group!

[Douglas Carpenter]

39. knr

[Vietnameravet]

40. Cheney is certainly a criminal and so is whoever revealed the identity of V. Plame

They should be put in the same cell as Snowden and the rest of the criminals..

[sabrina 1]

43. Cheney was behind the outing of Valerie Plame He got away with it because Libby covered for him

which is why he was convicted of 'obstruction of justice'.

As for Snowden, democracies don't put Whistle Blowers in jail.

[midnight]

46. Good for Valerie Plame to point out the irony of Dick and Karl opinion on leak of intelligence.

[bullwinkle428]

47. Wow!! Sure takes the wind out of the sails of one argument that was being

made last week right here at DU!

The one that compared Snowden's actions to Cheney's exposure of Valerie Plame...

K&R.

[AndyA]

49. I have a lot of respect for Valerie Plame, given how she handled herself after Bushco outed her.

She put her life on the line for this country, and knows first hand what government is capable of doing. That makes her very qualified to comment on this sort of thing as far as I'm concerned.

I agree with her: Snowden isn't exactly a hero, nor is he a traitor. We do owe him gratitude for allowing this issue to be discussed and hopefully resolved in a manner that everyone can live with.

[timdog44]

59. My fears of Valerie Plame's outing

is - How many overseas agents were executed or disappeared because of what Cheney, Rove and Novak did?

[AndyA]

66. That's something we'll likely never know.

No doubt, outing Plame put a lot of other people at risk, including those who trusted the U.S. Government enough to help with information. So much for fighting terrorism, I'll bet a lot of people clammed up quick once they saw what happened to Plame.

Bushco should be prosecuted for war crimes and for crimes against the state. (But of course that's off the table.)

[timdog44]

67. There are a lot of countries

he and his fellow traitors are afraid to go to,

[Progressive dog]

51. Where's that damn bus?

"I don't think a hero, I don't condone what he did. At the same time he's certainly not a traitor as he was called by Dick Cheney,"
I don't see any of the Snowden, Greenwald worship there.

" that we can begin to have a serious and genuine conversation about these issues."
I don't see any rush to place blame on the President either.

[Generic Other]

64. You missed it upthread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023049249#post9

[Harmony Blue]

56. Thank you Snowden

and thank you Valerie Plame.

[Logical]

57. Kick n-t

[blkmusclmachine]

70. .

.