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Tue Jun 18, 2013, 11:00 AM

So, from now on, I invoke my Fifth Amendment rights at the beginning of any conversation

with law enforcement officers -- even if I've done nothing wrong or illegal...

http://reason.com/blog/2013/06/17/supreme-court-rules-fifth-amendment-has

Supreme Court Rules Fifth Amendment Has to Actually Be Invoked
Scott Shackford|Jun. 17, 2013 4:00 pm

In a 5-4 decision the Supreme Court ruled today that a potential defendant’s silence can be used against him if he is being interviewed by police but is not arrested (and read his Miranda rights) and has not verbally invoked the protection of the Fifth Amendment.

Tim Lynch at the Cato Institute explains that the Salinas v. Texas case was intended to be about whether prosecutors during a trial could cast aspersions on a defendant’s silence during questioning that took place prior to arrest — prior to the defendent being told he had the right to remain silent. Instead, the Supreme Court determined that they wouldn’t need to rule on the matter because the defendant had never invoked the Fifth Amendment’s protection. This decision means that it’s the responsibility of the individual to know about the protections offered by the Fifth Amendment even prior to arrest and to actually verbally invoke it:


The Court said Salinas simply remained silent and did not “formally” invoke any constitutional right, so prosecutors could offer commentary to the jury. What’s most disturbing about the ruling is its discussion of “burdens.” The plurality put the onus on the individual, not the government. That is the profound error in the decision. As the dissenters noted, in the circumstances of the case, it was evident what Salinas was doing. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has complicated the law for persons who are the most vulnerable–persons who lack education, persons who do not speak English very well, persons who may suffer from mental problems, and persons who may be under the influence of alcohol. This is a bad day for the Bill of Rights.

Justice Stephen Breyer’s dissent notes that it should have been fairly clear that the defendant was invoking his Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself even if he didn’t use the words “Fifth Amendment”:


more at the link

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Reply So, from now on, I invoke my Fifth Amendment rights at the beginning of any conversation (Original post)
1monster Jun 2013 OP
Eddie Haskell Jun 2013 #1
1monster Jun 2013 #7
truebrit71 Jun 2013 #2
GodlessBiker Jun 2013 #6
1monster Jun 2013 #9
truebrit71 Jun 2013 #11
Savannahmann Jun 2013 #12
msanthrope Jun 2013 #8
corkhead Jun 2013 #10
Shrike47 Jun 2013 #3
Savannahmann Jun 2013 #13
premium Jun 2013 #4
NightWatcher Jun 2013 #5
Eddie Haskell Jun 2013 #14
NightWatcher Jun 2013 #15

Response to 1monster (Original post)

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 11:21 AM

1. Prove it!

You better be on tape.

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Response to Eddie Haskell (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 11:38 AM

7. Maybe I'll have a business card printed up that says "I invoke my Fifth Amendment

Rights!" and hand them out to everybody... More and more it feels like we all are on the

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Response to 1monster (Original post)

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 11:23 AM

2. So, until we're mirandized we MUST answer any and all questions by the coppers?

Or they can use that refusal as a sign of guilt? That's insane!

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 11:38 AM

6. Or answer none. Not a thing. It was the fact that the guy answered some but not another ...

... and that change in behavior is what can be admitted.

It is a terrible decision and will only lead people to shut down conversations earlier before they have been mirandized. People will rightly believe that if they ever want to change their mind and cut back on their cooperation, their change in behavior will be used against them. Better that they not say anything, ever.

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Response to GodlessBiker (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 11:41 AM

9. My BIL, a former LEO told my husband that when dealing with LEOs to NEVER say anything.

Period. Stop.

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Response to 1monster (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 12:15 PM

11. Exactly.

Just ask if you are being detained and if not whether you are free to go.

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Response to GodlessBiker (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 12:19 PM

12. He assumed that by refusing to answer any more.

He was invoking his 5th Amendment rights. You know, you have the right to remain silent, and to refuse to answer any questions, or stop answering at any time. He stood mute.

A book by Rex Stout of his famed Detective Nero Wolfe came to mind when I read and considered this information. Archie Goodwin the assistant was being interviewed by the police after being arrested.

I am almost certainly going to screw up the quote, so I apologize in advance. "You have my name, and from now on I'm going to stand mute. If you ask me about the case, I'll stand mute. If you ask me what I want for breakfast, sausage or bacon, I'll stand mute, so you better give me both. If you ask who I like in he world series, I'll stand mute."

He was giving the speech to see if the cop could fill out the form while Archie was talking at him, but it seems that we need such a speech memorized, perhaps printed, ourselves. Sad isn't it?

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 11:38 AM

8. No...You invoke Miranda. And the 6th while you are at it. nt

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 12:14 PM

10. I wonder if you can Mirandize yourself?

" I have the right to remain silent. Anything I say can be used against me in a court of law. I have the right to speak to an attorney..."

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Response to 1monster (Original post)

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 11:25 AM

3. Sadly, all you need to prove it is the testimony of the interviewing cop.

And people are so trusting, they frequently believe what cops tell them.

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Response to Shrike47 (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 12:21 PM

13. Cops are some of the last people I ever trust.

I would double check a cop if he said night was dark and day was light.

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Response to 1monster (Original post)

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 11:29 AM

4. Naw,

 

first thing you say is "Officer, am I being detained and if not, then I'm leaving". If you are detained than the next thing you say is, "Officer, please read me my Miranda warning and then I'm invoking my 5th amendment right and I want my lawyer."
After that, don't say another word to them.
Oh and if the cops come to you as say "Why don't we go down to the station so we can talk about............."
Unless you're being placed under arrest, you don't have to fucking go anywhere with them, unlike what Law & Order likes to portray.

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Response to premium (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 11:35 AM

5. ^^^^^ This! First ask to leave.

Don't talk to a cop if you don't have to. Many times they're just fishing for something. Ask if you are being detained, if not leave, if so ask for your rights then zip it till a lawyer is present.

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 02:40 PM

14. At that point, they taze your ass.

Best advice ... run!

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Response to Eddie Haskell (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 18, 2013, 02:41 PM

15. Then point your finger like a gun and point it at them

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