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Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:52 PM

Ellsberg: Snowden’s NSA leak more important than my Pentagon Papers

Ellsberg: Snowden's NSA leak more important than my Pentagon Papers:

Daniel Ellsberg, whose leak of the so-called Pentagon Papers to The New York Times in 1971 exposed the secret history of the war in Vietnam, thinks Edward Snowden's leak of the National Security Agency's surveillance programs was more important than his.

"In my estimation, there has not been in American history a more important leak than Edward Snowden's release of NSA material, and that definitely includes the Pentagon Papers 40 years ago," Ellsberg wrote in an op-ed published by the Guardian on Monday. "Snowden's whistleblowing gives us the possibility to roll back a key part of what has amounted to an 'executive coup' against the U.S. constitution."

--snip--

In 2011, Ellsberg was among a group of noted whistle-blowers that penned an open letter asking that a "transparency award" given to Obama earlier that year be rescinded. They called the Obama administration's record on secrecy and surveillance "a disgrace."

In 1971, Ellsberg became the first person to be prosecuted under the 1917 Espionage Act for releasing classified information to the public. The case was later dismissed when it was revealed during trial that the government had engaged in illegal wiretapping to gather evidence against him.


More at the link!

PB

17 replies, 1553 views

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Arrow 17 replies Author Time Post
Reply Ellsberg: Snowden’s NSA leak more important than my Pentagon Papers (Original post)
Poll_Blind Jun 2013 OP
woo me with science Jun 2013 #1
Poll_Blind Jun 2013 #2
Laelth Jun 2013 #3
G_j Jun 2013 #4
timdog44 Jun 2013 #16
Segami Jun 2013 #5
morningfog Jun 2013 #9
ProSense Jun 2013 #6
uponit7771 Jun 2013 #7
morningfog Jun 2013 #8
JoeyT Jun 2013 #10
Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #11
randome Jun 2013 #12
DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #14
randome Jun 2013 #15
russspeakeasy Jun 2013 #13
LineNew Reply .
blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #17

Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:44 PM

1. So glad Ellsberg is speaking out on this.

There may be hope yet...

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:53 PM

2. And what also gives me hope is it's not just the Ellsbergs of the world who care about privacy...

This is something that crosses party affiliation lines (as much as we may not believe it) and goes into the concept of what one thinks America should be. Obviously, America and Americans are continually facing new challenges but we have the wisdom of living in an Information Age where we can examine how some of the suggested solutions have worked out and, maybe more importantly, where some of those approaches lead.

And the bottom line takeaway is that as much as Americans love for someone else to make decisions for them (look at how few of us vote in elections, for instance), we also value a couple of things and, I think, judge ourselves by them. And one of those things is the Freedom to live our lives as we desire and the privacy to do it in a manner which does not make us feel constrained or limited.

Yes, Americans are willing to allow their elected representatives to give up too many of our hard-fought Freedoms, but there's also a point, and there are no "bright lines", but there's a point where the government's influence over us just gets under our collective skins.

And I think we're getting close to a time where enough Americans are irritated to action to bring the pendulum swinging back the other way.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:01 PM

3. Better link (directly to Ellsberg's editorial).

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:04 PM

4. Somebody needs to break into his shrinks office

and get dirt on this guy!

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Response to G_j (Reply #4)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 03:18 PM

16. Yes.

I wonder if maybe a little bit of dementia is slipping in.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:07 PM

5. Kick!...

What,...no trolls?....

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Response to Segami (Reply #5)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:15 PM

9. Not yet...awaiting fresh talking points.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:11 PM

6. Maybe people

In 2011, Ellsberg was among a group of noted whistle-blowers that penned an open letter asking that a "transparency award" given to Obama earlier that year be rescinded. They called the Obama administration's record on secrecy and surveillance "a disgrace."

...should stop pretending that Obama hasn't implemented safeguards after Bush and that the U.S. doesn't have a history of surveillance. Hell the FISA court was implemented to prevent these very kinds of abuses.

Bush came under attack because he bypassed the FISA court and went directly to intentionally spying on Americans. Bush broke the law (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022973979).

The government has been collecting information for decades. The question has always been whether or not those activities violate the Constitution, even when they are in compliance with existing laws.

Smith v. Maryland, 442 U.S. 735 (1979) - No warrant required for call metadata
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022966764

Here is Congressional testimony on another program implemented in 1997.

Statement of The Electronic Frontier Foundation
Before the Subcommittee on the Constitution
of the Committee on the Judiciary
United States House of Representatives
The Fourth Amendment and Carnivore
July 28, 2000


The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) would like to submit comments to be included for the record regarding the Fourth Amendment and the issues raised by the FBI's Carnivore system.

<...>

The Carnivore system has received a lot of press recently, but the FBI has not been forthcoming about how the Carnivore system actually works. Civil liberties groups have often been quoted as noting that Carnivore is a "black box" leaving us to guess at its inner workings.

<...>

Second, analogizing pen register information from a traditional land-line phone system to the Internet is incorrect. The Carnivore system likely can capture content as well as numbers. Email addresses for example are personal to an individual rather than to a particular household. We don't know for sure, but it is possible that Carnivore has access to the subject line information of email messages. Subject lines are content. For example, "leaving work at 5pm today - meet me at the bus stop", contains a lot of information about travel plans of a target on a particular day. Carnivore can also track other content information such as the URLs of web sites visited. Seeing the URLs not only give routing information but content as well. For example, someone visiting www.eff.org could presumably be interested in civil liberties issues online.

<...>

Currently, there is little if any public oversight over the FBI's use of its Carnivore system. The FBI has not allowed the ISP to inspect the device, nor have any of the advocacy groups been allowed to examine it. In fact, the ACLU has had to resort to filing a FOIA request to try to get at the source code. Allowing the FBI to install and use a device such as this unchecked by any public oversight, threatens the openness we enjoy and expect in our society. Robert Corn-Revere, in his testimony, noted that his case is sealed. We can't even look to that for guidance.

- more -

http://w2.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Carnivore/20000728_eff_house_carnivore.html


FBI Still Hunting With Carnivore

By Margret Johnston, PCWorld
Oct 20, 2000 7:00 AM

The U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation is still developing its Carnivore Internet surveillance tool, according to FBI documents obtained by the Electronic Privacy Information Center through a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit.

<...>

EPIC filed the FOIA lawsuit after the FBI earlier this year revealed the existence of Carnivore. The lawsuit seeks the public release of all FBI records concerning Carnivore, including the source code, other technical details, and legal analyses addressing the potential privacy implications of the technology. The source code of the Carnivore system was withheld in the first batch of documents (see "Does Carnivore Eat Privacy Rights?").

Carnivore has outraged not only EPIC, but also the American Civil Liberties Union and some members of Congress. The FBI has used it in at least 25 criminal and national security investigations, according to the FBI, which maintains the system is legal.

The documents in EPIC's hands also confirm that Carnivore was conceived under the name Omnivore in February 1997. It was proposed originally for a Solaris X86 computer. Omnivore was replaced by Carnivore running on a Windows NT-based computer in June 1999. Other parts of the documents include reviews of tests for performance, and recovery from attacks and crashes for both Omnivore and Carnivore. Carnivore consists of a PC running Windows and proprietary software.

- more -

http://www.pcworld.com/article/32664/article.html


After prolonged negative coverage in the press, the FBI changed the name of its system from "Carnivore" to the more benign-sounding "DCS1000." DCS is reported to stand for "Digital Collection System"; the system has the same functions as before. The Associated Press reported in mid-January 2005 that the FBI essentially abandoned the use of Carnivore in 2001, in favor of commercially available software, such as NarusInsight (a mass surveillance system).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_(software)#Controversy

Abandoned in 2001, shortly before Bush launched his illegal wiretapping program.

For the Republican opportunists, Bush actually spied on people.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022959557

HELLO WORLD! George W. Bush illegally spied on American citizens. Read all about it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022963663

Why The NSA’s Secret Online Surveillance Should Scare You
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/06/07/2120141/why-the-nsas-secret-online-surveillance-should-scare-you/

This whole NSA story is nothing more than recycled outrage. Glenn Greenwald didn't break shit.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022967844

What can we all agree on?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022969079

Now, the claims that the current is the "most important" or "biggest" leak in American history may have to do with the fact that it comes at a time when technology is so advanced and in the aftermath of Bush's illegal spying.

The fact remains that Edward Snowden leaked classified information on a legal program.




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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:11 PM

7. Yeah if it wasn't full of sophistry it would, screw that...consider the source

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:13 PM

8. Recommend!

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:47 AM

10. Welp, under the bus with Ellsburg. n/t

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:31 PM

11. This is just nonsense.

Nixon ordered the illegal bombing of Cambodia -- and didn't bother to tell anyone in Congress that he had ordered the bombing.

Comparing that act of treason by Nixon to what Snowden did, is like comparing what the Unibomber did to the kid who is firing off illegal firecrackers down the street!!

What Nixon did was about 1,000,000 times worse than what the Unibomber did!!!

Gimme a freakin' break!

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #11)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 10:36 PM

12. And Ellsberg didn't dump the Pentagon Papers on the doorstep and then go into hiding.

Like Snowden.



Stop looking for heroes. BE one.


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Response to randome (Reply #12)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 11:38 PM

14. That didn't stop Daniel Ellsburg from saying Snowden did the right thing

Of course, you can take the position that what Ellsburg did was good, but that his judgment on Snowden is wrong. But that's just not accurate.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 11:42 PM

15. 'Accuracy' has no relation to 'position'. My position (i.e. opinion) is that Ellsberg is wrong.

Senator Al Franken says the NSA is not spying on us. Snowden says it is then disappears.

Who to believe?



Stop looking for heroes. BE one.


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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #11)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 11:35 PM

13. +1

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:40 PM

17. .

.

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