Cleveland Hero Did Time For For Domestic Violence

[Tx4obama]

Cleveland Hero Did Time For For Domestic Violence

Charles Ramsey, lauded as the hero who rescued the three kidnapped women in Cleveland, is a convicted felon with three separate domestic violence convictions.

Ramsey’s first domestic violence charge came in February 1997. He entered a no contest plea a year later and was found guilty of the count by a Cleveland Municipal Court judge. While waiting to be sentenced, Ramsey was again arrested for domestic violence.

At the time of Ramsey’s second collar, in July 1998, he was already the subject of an arrest warrant issued in connection with his failure to appear for a court hearing in the first domestic violence case. As a result, Ramsey was jailed for violating terms of his release on bond. Ramsey subsequently entered a no contest plea to the second case and was, again, found guilty by a Cleveland judge.

The domestic violence cases apparently were consolidated for sentencing in August 1998, when Ramsey was ordered to serve six months in jail, placed on five years probation, and directed to attend a domestic violence counseling program.

-snip-

Full article here: http://www.alan.com/2013/05/08/cleveland-hero-did-time-for-for-domestic-violence/

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. 15 years ago. Maybe he's seen the error of his ways.

[Warpy]

17. He and the lady in question more likely

realized if they continued to live together, one of them would be dead and the other would be in prison for life. It can happen.

Drinking might have had something to do with it, too. Some relationships are downright toxic.

[MADem]

103. 2 incidents in the late nineties (very close to each other) and a third in 2003.

They aren't reporting anything for the past ten years.

[MrSlayer]

2. Looks like he went up three times for the same incident.

It doesn't take away from what he did yesterday though.

[randome]

9. It doesn't take away from what he did but...

...I find the labeling of him as a 'hero' to be a little overdone, even without consideration of his past.

I think 99% of people would help someone who came running to them for help.

Maybe that same 99% would ignore a homeless person on the street but that doesn't inspire the same reaction. It probably should but it doesn't.

[MrSlayer]

36. I concur.

He didn't really do anything extraordinary. He was a Johnny on the spot.

[morningfog]

54. You're right, this guy was just lucky to be in the right place to get to do this.

WTF?

[backscatter712]

115. He agrees with you.

You've watched his interview, no? He pretty much said he did what any other guy would do in his place.

He shouldn't be deified, but I'll put him in my Good Guy Greg column.

As far as I'm concerned, he paid for his past crimes, and I'm guessing he chilled out a bit as he aged. If he gets in a new domestic violence incident, I might change my mind.

[Tx4obama]

20. I reread the full article and it looks to me like three separate incidences, last one in 2003. n/t

[MrSlayer]

35. Thanks.

The clip made it seem otherwise.

[Xipe Totec]

3. The mosaic pavement is a symbol of human life.

The black and white checkered floor has existed in temples since the times of ancient Egypt. More than simply decorative, the mosaic pavement bears a profound esoteric meaning. Today it is one of Freemasonry’s most recognizable symbols and is the ritualistic floor of all Masonic lodges. The pavement is the area on which initiations occur and is “emblematic of human life, checkered with good and evil.”

[txwhitedove]

38. Beautifully said.

[uponit7771]

42. amen

[CokeMachine]

114. +1000 -- Love it. nt

[Ian David]

4. I was afraid that once attention was on him, people would dig stuff like this up.

If I did something heroic, I shudder to think what people would also find out about me.

[Junkdrawer]

6. Another "Life is long and complex" fellow...

Come on - it's Black and White, Good vs Evil.

Get with the program.

[AverageJoe90]

13. Sometimes, life gets too complex to really make sense.....

....like a poorly-done '80s crime novel. n/t

[Junkdrawer]

18. Put another way, we are only capable of understanding so much complexity....

We MUST simplify to act - and that means we will always do some injustice and harm.

[morningfog]

46. Especially since people were calling out the minstrel show aspect of his interview going viral.

Time to tear down the black man who did the right thing.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

7. As a culture that's where we're at

We have devolved into a virus in tennis shoes.

[Junkdrawer]

24. Quasi-life beings capable of reproduction only by the destruction of its victims?

Let me think.....


Yeah...fairly accurate.

[randome]

11. Just tell us now and you won't have to worry about it!

We can keep secrets.

[MattBaggins]

77. no good deed will go unpunished

Besides this is a black hero. Tomorrow we will learn if he ever used welfare or food stamps. He will be attacked for being black.

[Ian David]

108. The blacker he is. the more intense it will be. n/t

[backscatter712]

116. What do you think FOX News focused on?

The instant they figured out that Amanda's rescuer was black, they pulled his criminal record and broadcast it...

[Bake]

119. Maybe that's why so many people choose not to "get involved."

Hell, I might too.

Screw those people trying to crucify Ramsey. He did a good thing.

Bake

[Brickbat]

5. OMG, people are complex and can act like a dick in one situation and a hero in another?

NO WAY.

[Inkfreak]

33. HA! If there was a like button here... n/t

[uppityperson]

100. Yup, goes to show that people are complicated vs all good or all bad.

[KamaAina]

8. The real news here

is that someone actually did time for DV.

Of course, he is African American.

[uponit7771]

44. +1

[ohheckyeah]

10. Wonderful...

a man does something that quite possibly saved four lives and now his life is an open book for nosy journalists and the American public.

Great way to encourage people to get involved.

[pintobean]

12. He paid his debt

and apparently, hasn't broken any laws since. Dragging out his record takes away nothing from what he did Monday. I don't have a clue why someone would find value in posting this.

[Junkdrawer]

14. When I read the "Well, DU thinks he's a 'hero', so I guess he's a 'hero'" posts....

my guts started to tighten.

Apparently, the creation of heroes is something best left to the Corporate Media Experts.

[AverageJoe90]

15. Yeah, I suppose.

It could just be that he and his wife were never really compatible; DV is always tragic, but it's not always a case of absolutely evil wife or husband tortures totally innocent spouse, but sometimes, rather, it's just that neither of them can get along with one another.

[randome]

21. 'Domestic violence' sounds like more than an incompatibility.

[AverageJoe90]

34. And in many case, it certainly IS more. That certainly IS correct. n/t

[malaise]

32. Sickening

He rescued four females - that's good enough for me.

[LeftInTX]

16. I have no idea why they would dig this up

Ramsey pretty much went out of his way to help Amanda Berry. He said another bystander kinda brushed her off. He was a responsible citizen and made sure that she stayed safe until the cops arrived. He also followed up with another 911 call.

ETA: I wonder if this digging up dirt is racially motivated? Kinda feels that way to me.

[Junkdrawer]

22. Racially motivated? Perhaps. More likely....

it's a "look, WE say who is and isn't a hero" thing.

[morningfog]

52. It's because racists were called out for laughing at his interview.

[Junkdrawer]

57. Good point.

[Scuba]

19. This is sad, but does not diminish what he did this week.

[wryter2000]

29. Agreed

Plus, he may have learned something in that class that taught him to take domestic violence, which he initially thought he was dealing with, seriously. I was struck by how his instinct was to respond to help a victim of domestic violence when so many people would have turned away.

[proverbialwisdom]

79. Exactly. nt

[LiberalAndProud]

23. This is one aspect of the sensationalism that I find revolting.

Yes, these were horrific crimes. But now, anyone tangentially connected to the perp(s), the victims or the rescue will be subject to online honorifics, pejoratives and a public dissection of all past sins and character flaws, both real and imagined. The guy is a hero or a villain and we will be sanctimonious in our pronouncements on his character.

What does his character, or lack of it, have to do with the case except that he acted when he saw a young woman in need? Good for him.

[kestrel91316]

25. That in no way negates the good he did in saving those women.

We do not live in a world of black and white. People can do both good and bad things in their lives.

[Nye Bevan]

26. OK, a 6' 2" man weighing 230 pounds beat up a woman.

Forgive me if my opinion of him has fallen a little with this news.

[Junkdrawer]

30. If he had only minded his own business, your poorer opinion of him....

would not have been necessary.

THAT is the message. It may not be the intended message, but that's how it will play.

[galileoreloaded]

50. why does his physical stature matter?

beating a person is beating a person.

the misanthropy here is disgusting.

[morningfog]

51. So glad you were given the opportunity. No doubt you were desperate for it.

[Nye Bevan]

74. On the contrary. I'm always sorry to hear about women getting the living shit beaten out of them nt

[morningfog]

87. You missed my point. No doubt on purpose.

You are more transparent than you likely believe.

[Dash87]

27. Nobody is perfect. Especially the people criticizing him.

[NightWatcher]

28. He paid his debt to society. Now he's helped Society out a little

[Thinkingabout]

31. Though domestic violence is a terrible thing, the actions of this man in assisting in the rescue of

these young women was a great act. He paid attention to what was happening and responded in kind. We should take lessons from him in paying attention to a possible distress sign and reacted, I would venture to say if the kidnapper had returned before police arrived Mr Ramsey would have protected the girls from him. What a hero.

[Baitball Blogger]

37. It's never too late for redemption.

[WCGreen]

39. yea, well he stood up this time...

Life is a long trail where many roads are offered. He stood up this time and did the right thing.

[Cha]

40. At first glance it seems like the jail and probation

took with Charles Ramsey.

He's quoted in an interview saying he at first thought it was a "domestic violence" situation. And, he didn't run away. That speaks like he learned his lesson to me.

Full circle with a stop off in jail. From causing it to thinking he's helping someone who's a victim of it.

[uponit7771]

43. YES!! This is what I read, he learned a lesson and was better for it and helped other...that's good

[Taverner]

48. +100

[Mutiny In Heaven]

41. And this is why so many people - especially from economically shaky backgrounds - keep on falling

through the cracks. Because there is a such a desire from all quarters to pass judgment, that there's nowhere to turn...so they move in circles. Clearly he has a patchy past, but this isn't a kidnapper or a rapist or a child abuser. I've witnessed subtle, (mostly) psychological abuse in the home so I'm not seeking to downplay the offence, but this is a man who had run ins with the law in his 20s and 30s, with the domestic assault spanning one relationship. That does not make it right, that does not make it okay, but my own father may not have convictions, but he certainly knew exactly what to say in order to cut right through to the bone. Time after time, year after year, shredding your sense of worth piece by piece and I understand that he behaved similarly in subsequent relationships.

Charles Ramsey fucked up, but I prefer to look at a former prisoner - not a man of wealth or Ivy League education - who, instead of letting prison become his home away from home, managed to pull himself together, get a steady job and steer clear since. I see a man approaching his mid-40s who filed away several sad chapters of his life when still in his early 30s. That he hasn't returned to them since suggests to me a man who is, at the very least, trying.

[PeaceNikki]

45. If I were in desperate need of help and someone offers, I don't ask for their rap sheet.

I run into their arms and accept the help. The humanity and compassion that he showed by saving the girls is not related to his past mistakes. And vice versa.

[Taverner]

47. Fifteen years is a long time

Besides, no matter how much he can be smeared, he WAS and IS the hero of this ordeal

[morningfog]

49. Why is this news? Why is this relevant? Why the fuck should anyone care?

He did the right thing, he helped save lives and end a nightmare. I commend him and don't care about his past. It is sick the way society first, laughs at him as "that funny black neighbor" caricature and now dig up shit like this.

What a sick and racist country we still are.

[tammywammy]

53. +1000! n/t

[Junkdrawer]

56. Pretty much word-for-word my boy's first take....

Something like "If Ariel Castro had a history of domestic violence, that's relevant. Adding Charles Ramsey has a history of domestic violence: Completely and totally irrelevant ... and racist."

[redqueen]

98. +1

[cigsandcoffee]

55. I can forgive a lot of things, but beating women is a deal killer for me. n/t

[Daniel537]

66. I'm certain this guy is not asking for your forgiveness.

And i too am disgusted at how we dig in to everybody's past nowadays. Somehow we're supposed to expect that everybody is squeaky-clean and we should shun anybody who was ever done wrong. No thanks, count me out of that group.

[cigsandcoffee]

68. Don't care if he's asking for it or not. This is real life, where actions have consequences.

If you beat a woman on multiple occasions - and to the rare point that it actually results in jail time - then this inconvenient fact is going to emerge when you least want it to. Don't want your hero reputation sullied in the future? Want to be an upstanding citizen, admired by others? Fine, then restrain yourself from beating a woman now, or commiting similar inexcusable acts.

The push to excuse this guy's past behaviour on this thread - as though it's meaningless - is a little bit sickening. This isn't some kind of celebratory PR push for a minority - it's real life, and in real life, being convicted of violence against women has repersussions - as it fucking well should.

[Wednesdays]

101. The Scarlet Letter is still in vogue, I see.

I thought it had faded out in the 17th century, but it looks like I was wrong.

[Shivering Jemmy]

78. "deal killer"

Who asked you to make a deal?

What were the terms of the deal?

Since you're passing it up, is the deal still open?

[cigsandcoffee]

82. It's called a 'turn of phrase'

What I specifically mean by it is that I draw a line before admiring a man who would physically assault his wife. I think it's great that the guy was there when Amanda Berry was able to courageously call for help to the outside world, and am glad he played whatever positive role in the rescue that he did - but finding out that he is the type of man who would commit violence toward a woman nullifies any lingering admiration I might feel for him.

Do I think this coming out is unfair or a raw deal for him? No. Violence toward women rightly has consequences.

[Shivering Jemmy]

85. I do not admire or villify

but I do note that he appears to have repaired that defect in his personality from more than a decade ago.

Why waste your disdain on someone who seems to have fixed what you loathe?

There are many others out there who have not.

[cigsandcoffee]

92. I don't think beating a woman is something that can be repaired.

That's something a man does or something a man would never do. If he's controlled it in himself, then kudos to him, but controlled is very different from "fixed."

If you want to admire the man for whatever part he played in this rescue, then have at it - don't mean to rain on your parade. But I found the tone of this thread to be a bit dismissive of the significance of violence toward women, and felt compelled to offer my opinion.

[Shivering Jemmy]

94. I hear you

I don't want to admire him or dislike him. It's hard to admire someone period, if I don't know them. I'll use the word in conversation, but honestly the man means less than nothing to me.

I do like and want to believe in redemption. I want to believe that our flaws and defects can be fixed. What's the point of being liberal if we don't believe that humans are salvageable?

But there is no percentage in trying to convince someone of my own biases. They are, after all, my own. And you are to be commended for your steadfast defense of women in this thread.

[leftynyc]

111. I'm sure if you were being

held hostage by an animal the first thing you would ask for from the person who was rescuing you is their rap sheet. Right? And if they had done time 15 years ago for whatever, you would refuse their help. Right?

[sabrina 1]

112. He should have just walked on by then since you can't forgive him.

If someone has a rap sheet they should avoid doing anything good in this world.

I doubt the three women whose lives he most likely saved, certainly he saved them from further horrific abuse at the hands of a cruel kidnapper, rapist and torturer, give a tinker's curse about his 'rap sheet'.

Thank the gods he straightened out his life and was not in jail when that woman begged for help. Thankfully he was there to help her and the other women and the child escape.

If you are Black and poor in this society, how dare you do anything heroic, someone somewhere will make to dig up dirt on you.

[BainsBane]

58. Whatever he has done in the past

He helped those young women yesterday. I prefer not to excavate his past mistakes because I don't want to see other people in similar circumstances fail to act out of fear of the press poking around in their lives.

[Tx4obama]

60. Maybe NOT. There was an interview on CNN with 'Angel' the hispanic man the kicked in the door...

and saved Amanda Berry.

[BainsBane]

61. weren't they both there?

Wasn't it Charles' phone Amanda Berry used to call 911?

[Tx4obama]

64. Angel said that Charles didn't show up until Amanda was out of house & crossing the street.

Amanda used the phone across the street of a woman.

[Daniel537]

67. Yeah, its starting to sound like Charles was milking this for what he could.

Not surprising.

[Turborama]

73. Why do you say that it's "not surprising Charles was milking this for what he could"? n/t

[BainsBane]

69. interesting

You could tell he was embellishing. He's a good story teller, so I knew it wasn't all true, but I didn't think he made the whole thing up.

[Tx4obama]

70. A link to one of the videos of Angel below

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017117544

[Turborama]

71. Angel has said Amanda explained details to him who she was etc, but he can't speak English

How does he know what she was saying to him?

Why has it taken until after Charles has said he won't accept the reward for Angel to start claiming he was the savior?

Charles has always said "we" and had said he wasn't the 1st one who got there.

We've always known who's phone Amanda used to call 911 while Charles called them too. What's that got to do with anything?


Why the preference to believe Angel over Charles?

[LisaL]

93. He can speak English. He was interviwed in English.

[Shivering Jemmy]

81. That is not what Angel said

in spanish.

[dogknob]

59. And? n/t

[ZombieHorde]

62. Domestic violence is a serious issue,

however, Gandhi admitted to beating his wife often in his autobiography, and many here consider him to be a hero.

Perhaps we would just be better off without heroes.

[tammywammy]

75. +1000! n/t

[Cha]

96. Ghandi admitted to beating his wife! Well, there's someone who

was redeemed. It does happen.

thanks ZH

[redqueen]

99. John Lennon, too.

Many 'heroes' have feet of clay.

Racists, however, can go pound sand.

[blogslut]

63. The Internet hate machine has no off switch.

But it does have an infrared homing device.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

65. WTF is the point of all this?

He did something to help other people in need. His past has no bearing on what happened suffice it to say that he apparently made the right choice in this particular situation. Why does he need to have his past behavior/criminal activity dragged out? Disgusting IMHO.

[CincyDem]

72. And we wonder why people look the other way and say "I won't get involved".

OMG - you mean this guy isn't perfect ? In fact, he's not even close. Imagine what we would be talking about today if yesterday he said, "Chit man, I got a record - I step up and help this little white girl and who knows what they're going to say about me. Safer to just keep quiet and sit her nibbling on my McDonald's happy meal".

I'll bet all of us have something in our past that we're not proud of...something that we would rather not be brought out into the spotlight. It doesn't have to be a felony. It doesn't have to be a misdemeanor. It could be anything each of us might feel just a little pinch of ashamed about. It's focus on this kind of history that causes people to say - maybe best to not get involved.

Rather than allowing us to focus on the good that Mr. Ramsey did for these four lives and their families - some folks have to make sure that we don't let ourselves get to wound up in hero worship. How about those families? You think THEY think he's a hero.

To the folks that think "right place, right time"...maybe...but what we'll never know is how many other people were in the right place but they turned their eyes and didn't make it the right time. We'll never know how many faces these girls looked to for help but they turned away.

Let's let him be the hero, maybe for the only time in his life, and appreciate him the way those families might. We talk about trying to share the sorrow of the Sandy Hook elementary families - let's try to share the joy of the Cleveland families for now.

We'll let everyone get back to looking down their nose at poor black folk no matter what they do soon enough. No need to rush.

[Nye Bevan]

76. "Not perfect" is picking your nose or leaving the toilet seat up.

Beating the living shit out of your wife, when you are over 6 feet tall and weigh 230 pounds, is a lot more than "not perfect".

Count me out of the canonization.

[Shivering Jemmy]

80. You posted almost this exact sentiment earlier in the thread

are you going to post it again later on tonight?

[Nye Bevan]

83. To me, men who beat up women are almost like a different species

compared to "normal" men who would never think of doing such a thing.

It's disgusting, cowardly and (to me) inconceivable.

[Shivering Jemmy]

88. I don't believe people even exist.

We're illusions of continuity that we perpetrate on ourselves.

The man he was 15 years ago was awful.

One hopes, given the data now, that that man is dead. Maybe this new man that wears his skin is a better one.

[CincyDem]

84. Your absolutely right...nose picking and seat leaving up isn't perfect

I would add reaching down into the back of your pants to achieve some serious butt cleavage scratching in public. Not perfect.

But I missed the "beating the living shit out of your wife" part of the discussion. No question there's a record here. No question he entered a no contest plea. No question that his wife's lawyer used the phrases "gross neglect of duty and extreme cruelty" in his filing (because every good lawyer knows that you always use the most extreme language in the filings because it always gets watered down).

What I haven't found, and I'm open to the possibility that it exists, is the evidence that he "beat the living shit out of [her]".

I'm not saying that we should start naming expressways or airports after the guy - I'm just saying maybe he paid his due to society (isn't that what prison is supposed to be for) and maybe it's time to let his present be his present...and in that world...he's a hero to some very lucky families.

[Wednesdays]

102. Maybe he's prisoner #24601

And we all need to go up to him and say, "A man like you will never change. A man...such as you."

[treestar]

86. He didn't lock anyone in a house for ten years.

A lot of DV charges are really muddy, too. It was also over 10 years ago.

[Number23]

89. Zero recs. that looks about right...

[Cleita]

90. So he does a decent thing and he

has to have his past muckraked like this?

[RetroLounge]

91. What's even more interesting is your smear campaign

How many more threads you gonna start?

RL

[L0oniX]

97. This ^^^^^^^^^^^

[L0oniX]

95. I don't care if it was a murdering maniac NRA member ...those women are free!

[Kalidurga]

104. What a disgusting thread.

Irrelevant doesn't even come close to describing this. And WETF, said that his rap sheet is a deal breaker WTF does that even mean? Does it mean if you are on fire and someone is willing to put it out you are going to ask them if they have a violent past? And then refuse aid if they have committed violence?

[aquart]

105. A man who had hit women rushed to the rescue of a woman he believed

to be fleeing a man like him.

That's what we call redemption.

[Cha]

106. Bob Cesca has some not nice words for...

By the way — I’d just like to say that anyone who is spreading around Charles Ramsey’s rap-sheet is a shitheel of the highest order. I’m referring to one prominent CNN anchor in particular, and his name is Jake.

http://bobcesca.thedailybanter.com/blog-archives/2013/05/the-benghazi-tiger.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-benghazi-tiger

[Kennah]

107. Let those without sin commit the first selfless act

[woo me with science]

109. Oh, look. A gratuitous, nasty thread

from a right-wing Democrat.

What a shock.

[cbdo2007]

110. He's still a hero.

[sibelian]

113. So if a person does a good thing AND a bad thing...

Then I suppose they kind of cancel each other out?

Gosh.

So his domestic violence is OK because he rescued some kidnap victims and that rescue doesn't really matter in judging his character because he beat a woman up once.

Hang on.

If the rescue doesn't count, how can it redeem the domestic violence? He's still evil.

And if the domestic violence is okay then how can it affect our understanding of the rescue? He's still a hero.

That's really complicated.

Confused.

Please explain.

Actually, don't worry. I've had a think and come up with a nice, sensible solution to this paradoxical seeming situation. Instead of thinking of good and evil as AMOUNTS of something that are kind of positive and negative like acid and alkali that make something neutral when they're mixed, I've decided that good and evil don't cancel each other out at all or really even affect each other, not being substances or qualities but ACTIONS. That way a good thing is good and a bad thing is bad, and the person doing the good or bad thing can be both good and bad at the same time. I like this solution because it means that my feelings about the ordinary people I have lived with all my life make sense, as I have noticed that the same person can be very wonderful or a complete git depending not on what they ARE but what they DO. I myself have done both good and bad things.

Maybe not very complex after all, hm?

[backscatter712]

117. He paid his penance for his past crimes. Leave them in the past. n/t

[NCTraveler]

118. Bad people do good things all of the time.

Good people do bad things all of the time.

Being good or bad is simply relative to the rest of society.

[Bake]

120. And I'll bet next time, he says screw it, I'm not getting involved.

Way to go, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, et al.

Well done.



Screw you all. No sarcasm, just in case you were wondering.

Bake