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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCops ignored or didn't follow through on calls to the house in Cleveland
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Elsie Cintron, who lives three houses away, said her daughter once saw a naked woman crawling on her hands and knees in the backyard several years ago and called police. "But they didn't take it seriously," she said.
Another neighbor, Israel Lugo, said he heard pounding on some of the doors of Castro's house, which had plastic bags on the windows, in November 2011. Lugo said officers knocked on the front door, but no one answered. "They walked to side of the house and then left," he said.
Neighbors also said they would see Castro sometimes walking a little girl to a neighborhood playground. And Cintron said she once saw a little girl looking out of the attic window of the house.
Israel Lugo said he, his family and neighbors called police three times between 2011 and 2012 after seeing disturbing things at the home of Ariel Castro. Lugo lives two houses down from Castro and drew suspicion after neighbors reported seeing naked women on leashes crawling on all fours behind Castro's house.
Lugo said about two years ago his sister told him she heard a woman pounding on a window at Castro's home as if she needed help. When his sister looked up, she saw a woman and a baby standing in a window half covered with a wooden plank. His sister told him and Lugo called the police.
Later, Lugo's mother called the police because Ariel would park his school bus in front of their home and bring bags full of McDonald's and drinks into his home. They wondered why he needed so much food. Police again responded but didn't enter the home.
A third call came from neighborhood women who lived in an apartment building. Those women told Lugo they called police because they saw three young girls crawling on all fours naked with dog leashes around their necks. Three men were controlling them in the back yard. The women told Lugo they waited two hours but police never responded to the calls.
<snip>
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/07/missing-women-cleveland-brothers-arrested/2140359
So what do you do if you repeatedly call the cops and nothing is done? I'm not sure how you can see things like women on leashes in the back yard or women that look trapped in a house that should have only one occupant and not follow up.
This is what makes Ramsey a hero. He could have ignored the screams and signs too, but he didn't.
SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)malaise
(269,365 posts)and a few African Americans. They don't give a flying fugg.
Baitball Blogger
(46,787 posts)TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)The cops didn't care because of the neighborhood demographics!
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)elleng
(131,457 posts)timing between unanswered calls, knowledge of caller about earlier calls, but surely elevate calls from local police, to county, state, and federal authorities.
AWFUL.
GeorgeGist
(25,327 posts)Pigs.
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)I thought they lived there as well...?
All right, I'll be the first to say it: what kind of a sick, twisted porn collection does this dirtbag have? And if he has one, I'm sure we'll be told it did not affect his behavior in the least.
Renew Deal
(81,901 posts)I don't know if the other guys live there or not.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Melinda
(5,465 posts)Unless of course, you are poor, unemployed, living in a poor area of town, and/or are of color... then it's fuck you, I got mine.
[font size=8]Those women told Lugo they called police because they saw three young girls crawling on all fours naked with dog leashes around their necks.[/font]
Where was God then? ARGH!!!!!!
Renew Deal
(81,901 posts)That's the worst of them all. The others you can argue aren't as clear, but this one is cristal clear and it was IGNORED.
"The women told Lugo they waited two hours but police never responded to the calls."
Berlin Expat
(951 posts)might not have responded to that particular call - the girls on leashes naked in the backyard - because they either figured it was a crank call, or just some folks playing kinky games around the house.
They should've have responded, and the failure of the CPD to do so is a strike against them, but either of the two reasons I mentioned above is very likely the reason they didn't respond.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)sleep at night after seeing something like that. I would be calling the police until they showed up or I would be calling the media. How do you ever "unsee" something like that?
Melinda
(5,465 posts)I'm ignorant and have ever been there, but based on what I've taken in the last few days, it seems as if 2nd class citizens don't matter there.... the poor don't receive any kind of supportive LE services. It seems tactile, it feels palpable, is it culturally entrenched there that the poor don't matter? If so, people must find ways to become immune to the disregard from those that are suppose to protect them, right? After all, they don't really mean much in the scheme of things... just throw them away, like so much trash. They are taught not to care. Monstrous.
I can not express how angry I am, how much I want to.... I can't say it. I just can't. But I know that my own horrors at a young age seem not to matter right now. These young women need so much now and will require much much more support than imaginable in the future. They will never be able to unsee what special hell has been visited upon them - not ever.
And I hope ALL those responsible for these poor girls hell will pay over and over and over again. I am so anti-violence and all that entails but today I hope they suffer greatly when ultimately held accountable.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)you posted.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)domestic violence and the "couple" shld sort it out themselves. Crawling on leashes, twice? WTF?
reformist2
(9,841 posts)magellan
(13,257 posts)His own son, along with friends and neighbors invited inside the house, didn't suspect what was really going on. And his son knew the basement and attic were padlocked. I'm not sure there was ever enough evidence to justify the police doing a followup or forcing their way in...but if it looks like they weren't proactive when they should have been, I'm sure it'll come out.
LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)the cops might have raided the place.
Lived in an apartment many years ago. The neighbors had a very loud party on a Tuesday night. Complained, and they ignored it. Called the cops, waited two hours, nothing happened. Called the cops again, and said "I smell pot". Cops there in 5 minutes.
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)An ounce could have saved those girls many years.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)including the attic and the basement. They would have looked for any speck of evidence of drug use or growing. You know if they saw a padlocked basement and attic, and were looking for drugs, those padlocks would be broken off those doors in mere seconds.
warrior1
(12,325 posts)But speculating, did the police just not care about the neighborhood to try and find out about these complaints?
Just going by what the people are saying, they could be embellishing their stories, but what they are saying is pretty specific.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)would have kicked the fucking doors in and too fucking bad. And at least one of them would be carrying a .45
if they were told any ONE of those stories and the cops failed to go into the home.
cops leave, doors busted. in a hot fucking minute.
I am in no way blaming anyone for not being willing to have done this, btw.
galileoreloaded
(2,571 posts)would get no sympathy from me if they took a couple rounds each right in the pumpkin.
you buy your ticket, you take your ride, and we have laws against that shit for a reason.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)how ya think we got the drug dealers next door to move away?
galileoreloaded
(2,571 posts)elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)I just don't care.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)I wouldn't blame the cops for not responding to that call, but the other two make me wonder why there was no response.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)whatever
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)I'm willing to bet he can put some McDonalds down, then you will have some explaining to do when you kick in his door.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)thanks - I needed that
opiate69
(10,129 posts)elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)opiate69
(10,129 posts)Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)opiate69
(10,129 posts)SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)have "stories" to tell.. I am sure the FBI will follow up on any credible ones. There is always the "CNN-effect", where people want their moment in the sun, to tell a story to a camera crew, and become momentarily "famous".
There could also be a degree of collective shame for NOT noticing/following through on long-ago suspicions, and it's pretty easy after-the-fact to claim that police never came.
The three who have been freed will tell their stories when they are up to it, and that's when we will find out what happened..or not.. I don't need to know the gory details.. I am happy they are safe now, and hope they can get back some anonymity.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)At present, all we're getting are press interviews of second- and third-hand info from people in the neighborhood. They may be 1,000% accurate, but we cannot yet confirm it. When the cameras and microphones swarm into town, one has to take that attention-thing into account.
One of the items is a neighbors saying that some people told him that they saw things, and said they called the police and nothing happened. For me, that's not enough (yet) to convince me that all of that took place. It may turn out to be true. It may turn out to be at least semi-false, and the truth is even more horrible! Either way, I'm ready to cast my rage where it is deserved, once I know the truth.
The Boston bombings were a reminder that info is always in flux at the beginning of a story. I'm trying to keep that in mind.
That being said: I raise a toast to all the brave people who made this rescue happen! The victims, the neighbors, and the police!!
mythology
(9,527 posts)I don't know that we will ever know if there was a legitimate reason for the police to have done further investigating before now. But I do know there are a lot of people who want their 15 minutes of fame, or perhaps to alleviate feelings of guilt for not having seen something.
Baitball Blogger
(46,787 posts)"drew suspicion after neighbors reported seeing naked women on leashes crawling on all fours behind Castro's house."
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)Nay
(12,051 posts)ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)What's sick is that both officer were (rightfully) fired, appealed, and were reinstated. With Balcerzak serving as President of the Milwaukee Police Officer's Association. Long history of corruption within that police force (see: Lawrencia "Bambi" Bembenek)
lunasun
(21,646 posts)I think....many of his victims were minority and he lived in an apt.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)The police didn't listen. They didn't do their jobs. They didn't care to do their jobs. They were lazy, incompetent, and useless.
This goes well beyond embarrassment for the department. This is an extremely severe, inexcusable, and dangerously negligent, callous disregard for human life and public safety. There ought to be an external, independent investigation of every last call, who received it, when, who made the calls, how often, etc., and etc., and every last police officer on the force involved who failed these women should not only be terminated immediately, but should also be facing charges as accessories. Their failure here was criminal and there is no possible excuse.
There are officers on that police force who now belong in jail for a very, very long time. Were I living in that city, I would never, ever again trust any police officer on that force, and I definitely would never call them for any reason. I'd just handle it myself, take my chances with a jury afterward, and hold up their behavior in this case as an affirmative defense against any and all charges for how I handled it. This breach of trust should make every jury in every case upon which this department's testimony would ordinarily result in a conviction throw out all their testimony as tainted. I hope their force suffers the aftereffects of this abortion of justice for at least a generation. It will take at least that long to restore the lost trust.
THIS is a good reason, a sound reason, to never ever trust police. They are not there to keep you safe; they are only there to clean up after the damage is done.
FUCK the police. Useless pig thugs, the lot of them.
Melinda
(5,465 posts)Thank you for this, and thank you again.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)with 45 women missing in Cleveland, couldn't they investigate the complaints? Get a warrant, maybe?
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Last edited Tue May 7, 2013, 08:59 PM - Edit history (1)
a drug deal. That would've brought SWAT officers, flashbangs, dogs, and possibly an armored personnel carrier.
Jesus. Fuck.
gvstn
(2,805 posts)Listen between 0:30 and 0:45
The cops tried to blow of Charles too! "I call the police, and I went through some shit with them, you wouldn't believe, they thought I was lying."
http://www.buzzfeed.com/superhoodnews/charles-ramsey-on-amanda-berry-kidnapper-i-used-8k0t
Logical
(22,457 posts)The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)was make the people put things back.
More than once. No paperwork from the bank but they had keys - BofA uses two keys for all of their foreclosed properties and thieves know it. Cops shrugged, had them put things back in the house since they had zero paperwork, and sent them on their way.
And not just once.
I don't call them anymore. If I see someone stealing something there is nothing I can do about it anymore.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)We'll see what info comes out in the next while, but holy shit, if a report women on leashes and naked in the backyard led around by these ugly animals, by gawd those police are either stupid or have a deal with the castros to 'share'.
wouldn't be impossible.
Phillip McCleod
(1,837 posts)..trolling for petty drug-dealers and traffic control..
..they might've actually caught these fuckers a decade ago.
so much for CSI and Columbo.
WCGreen
(45,558 posts)They are constantly laying off police and then rehire them.
Cleveland is a city built for 1100k with only 325k living there. Tons of empty space.
They do their best. I know a lot of the City Council people and they do what they can to keep it going.
There are about five or six islands of viable communities outside of downtown and the rest is pretty much no man lands.
It's easy to cast blame but most of those cops and fire fighters and EMT people are dedicated professionals who work 12 shifts.
Phillip McCleod
(1,837 posts)i know hero-worship of cops and soldiers is *in* right now, but i don't subscribe to it because i've known members of both who were anything but. fact is, here as in the UK (i believe there was a thread about this here on DU recently) beat cop to detective.. it's the lowest common denominator, by design. keeps 'em obedient and not too ambitious, i believe.
that said i don't place blame just at the feet of the pigs, but of politicians, too, for being cowards in the 'war' on drugs, etc. that's what stretched the cops thin.. and many of them are anti-drug war for the same reason.
it's easy to cast blame when over and over and over the cops were called to the house .. with reports of *naked women crawling around in collars* and worse. i'm not blaming donut-loving cops, but i am blaming a 2-tiered criminal justice system that is more likely to accidentally kill the wrong person in a SWAT raid than to save three women from sexual slavery.
WCGreen
(45,558 posts)and I can tell you they do their best with what they have. I grew up a few miles away from that neighborhood. I'm not going to get into it with someone who has no idea what is going on.
Phillip McCleod
(1,837 posts)..yeah.
but there's specifics and then there's generalizable observations that might lead to policy.
there's also 'doing the best we got' and 'being a predominantly conservative *tool* for whatever whim is passed as law'.
there's justice, and then there's what we've got. i might not live where *you* live, but i've been alive long enough to know the pro-cop propaganda is just that and i'll call it what it is, thank you very much.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)I suppose what's interesting that regard is still that if there were multiple reports made that it was not passed up to detectives from the beat cops. I'm a public servant myself, in parks and recreation, and I still realize that for many people those 12 hour shifts become a matter of routine such that the incredible is too easily dismissed.
madokie
(51,076 posts)"This is what makes Ramsey a hero. He could have ignored the screams and signs too, but he didn't."
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)WCGreen
(45,558 posts)They are right off the highway. A lot of vacant houses in the area.
diabeticman
(3,121 posts)ellie
(6,929 posts)yeah, everyone who said they called the cops is lying. Fucking police.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)Weird.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)He did mention it in the same interview.
Fucking scenario is straight out of a horror movie, anyway.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Some of the other neighbors were definitely freaked out.
It pretty much does seem that way. I think I read that both the basement and attic were padlocked so you've got to wonder what living conditions were like.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)I don't know how you move on after something like that. I really feel for these people. This really is some of the worst shit imaginable.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)I think as noted above race was likely a factor in terms of police responsiveness.
bitchkitty
(7,349 posts)Last edited Wed May 8, 2013, 11:11 AM - Edit history (1)
In both cases, I thought that the operators were very curt with them - to the point of being downright rude. If they can't handle talking to emotional people, they should quit their jobs and let better qualified people take their place.
Cleveland PD sounds like it's a swamp of incompetence.
progressoid
(50,030 posts)bitchkitty
(7,349 posts)I meant Cleveland. I guess I had Dahmer on my mind.
progressoid
(50,030 posts)"Dahmer on my mind". That sounds like a terrible song.
Response to Renew Deal (Original post)
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