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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOK, Blue Dogs. You're up.
We talk, beg, plead, cajole until we're blue in the face.
And, then they do what the hell they want anyway.
I'm done. There's simply no reason to fight to vote, deal with Republicans trying to take away my vote, stand in horrendous lines, be attacked when I ask for a DEM ballot in Republican hell, just to have my own party betray me over and over.
I'm finished.
Blue dogs can thank me now for staying home in 2014. I'm not going to bother voting, nor will I cajole my family into going to the polls.
Let's see the Blue Dogs win an election without Progressives.
still_one
(92,394 posts)stupid as many Democrats in Congress are, compared to the republicans it is still the better choice.
Does that make me happy? NO
However, until progressive actually take back the party by winning local elections and moving up, not much will change
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)'progressives'.
tblue
(16,350 posts)more than they hate Republicans. They couldn't care less about what we want. They've got other priorities and we are just in the way.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)tblue
(16,350 posts)They believe a certain politician just can't help but dance the Blue Dog Jig because Republicans are so mean and unreasonable. He's forced, you see, to do these awful things he just hates doing.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)as long as a Democrat is talking about screwing seniors.
They're driving voters AWAY from them, the only change we will see is 2010 writ large.
You think voters were angry over Obamacare? Just wait until the DEMs finish screwing with seniors.
You ain't seen nothin' yet.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Tea Party whack jobs and Republicans who believed the lies told to increase Republican turnout.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)Keep telling yourself that.
You're looking at 2010 writ large.
Good luck.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)and I'm not a teaparty hack and neither are any of my friends/family who are also angry about Obamacare. I'm afraid the Party Faithful will be in for a HUGE shock at the backlash the Democratic party will experience in 2014.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)and then stayed home in 2010?
Or, are you a liberal who wanted Obamacare to do more and are angry that it does not?
And you voted in 2010. right?
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)so, yes, I voted in 2010 as well. I did NOT want Obamacare because right now I'm not getting insurance coverage because I can't afford it. Right now that's free. Next year I get to pay to not have insurance. Yep, I'm pissed.
The point is, a lot of people hate the MANDATED insurance that will be foisted on us and they are not teabaggers, conservatives, Republicans or Randians.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)The mandated insurance coverage includes subsidies for those who can't otherwise afford it.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)We'll be paying $380.00 a month with a $12,800 out-of-pocket expense PER YEAR. And get this -- out-of-pocket is described as the following:
The most you pay during a policy period (usually a year) before your health insurance or plan begins to pay 100% of the allowed amount. This limit never includes your premium, balance-billed charges or health care your health insurance or plan doesnt cover. Some health insurance or plans dont count all of your co-payments, deductibles, co-insurance payments, out-of-network payments or other expenses toward this limit. In Medicaid and CHIP, the limit includes premiums.
http://www.coveredca.com/
Those "subsidies" are in the form of a tax break and that's ONLY if your income is low enough to qualify. We won't but that doesn't mean we can afford the premiums either. It's estimated that the opt-out will be about $1500 for the both of us -- WAAAAAY cheaper than $4,560 ($380.00 X 12) PLUS the $12,800 out-of-pocket expenses for a grand total of $21,920 per year.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)And.......and.......and....
Voting for the least of the bad results in Nancy Pelosi saying chained CPI isn't a cut, it's just a "change" in how benefits are figured.
No. More.
Blue Dogs got the President they want. Good luck with that.
Call me when a real progressive runs for office.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)I would, it sums up my position perfectly,especially the part where the naders and Kuciniches all want to run for president, but they do not run for lesser offices that would make actualprofess (like mayors, governors, and even school board)
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)If you were a real progressive, you'd step away from the key board and find the candidates you want.
Getting Dems to stay home is part of the GOP's strategy, not a true progressive's strategy.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)Good luck, Blue Dogs.
Here's your chance.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)give their seats to Republicans.
That'll teach'em.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)when you fight to put a Democrat in office so that they propose screwing seniors.
Good luck with that.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Do you have any idea how many times this has been predicted?
I'm guessing not.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)'nuf said.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)But at least you picked a good old boy.
He was a Dixiecrat who was too dumb to know he was supposed to become a Republican.
In the end he went insane.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)Bwahahahahahahahahahahhaha, the Minority Leader of the DEM party in Georgia switched parties the day after the 2012 election.
The LEADER of the party.
Tell me again where the differences lie?
Oh yeah, he was a Blue Dog.
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)that apparently has the big plan to kill turnout, I guess to help clean up the destroyed TeaPubliKlan brand enough for the show to go on. Can't risk dominance, even the firmest dangler and most obsessive wiper won't be able to spin the shenanigans to turnover control to the multinationals and funnel riches to the wealthy if the Democrats dominate.
How are you going to enrage voters to the polls? You aren't. The left has been trying to talk numbnut corporate sell outs from suiciding the party but folks like you just keep hollering that people aren't clapping hard enough to revive poor Tinkerbelle.
I have to wonder do you guys really think everyone is that stupid or are certain folks making such statements that challenged themselves.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... may well damage the Democratic Party beyond repair.
I'm beginning to believe that was the plan all along.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)Been there, done that. Look at Georgia.
Half the DEMs changed to the republican party once they got in charge in this state. They were "Blue Dog DEMs" which is nothing more than a Republican masquerading as a Democrat.
on edit:
Don't believe me? See Zell Miller.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)It's Turd Way Corporate shills too. All the way to the very top.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)Turd Way Corporate Shills = Blue Dogs.
Let's see them win an election without progressives.
They know it's not possible.
Keep telling Progressives to sit down and shut up.
We will.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)For me, sitting down and shutting up isn't an option. Nor is not voting. But not voting for those that have fucked me over IS an option. That's the one I choose.
RC
(25,592 posts)They'll will win with the Conservatives that think/say they are Democrats, voting for them.
DU has a bunch of that stripe. 3rd Way, Blue Dogs, Three dimensional chess explanations for caving. The various political 3rd way figure worshipers.
Hint people, just because you are to the Left of the Right-wing extremists does not automatically make you a Liberal, or even a Democrat.
nessa
(317 posts)If you stay home, they don't know you exist. They don't know if you are an angry republican, an angry dem or someone who just doesn't care. That doesn't send any kind of message.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)It sends the message that I'm done fighting to vote in Republican Hell.
Staying home.
Finished.
Nite Owl
(11,303 posts)we didn't leave them. When the President refuses to listen and turns on us it would be like accepting abusive behavior. I'm not going to do that.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)us "fucking retards" will get out of their way now.
The friction was laid bare in August when Mr. Emanuel showed up at a weekly strategy session featuring liberal groups and White House aides. Some attendees said they were planning to air ads attacking conservative Democrats who were balking at Mr. Obamas health-care overhaul.
Fing retarded, Mr. Emanuel scolded the group, according to several participants. He warned them not to alienate lawmakers whose votes would be needed on health care and other top legislative items.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)solving a problem.
That is simply not allowed in a hair-on-fire OP about how terrible Dems are.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)It's dawning on you that Blue Dogs can't win without duping progressives?
That you've told us progressives to sit down and shut up one time too many?
This is the line in the sand for many, sweetie. And, the leader of the Democratic party just jumped right over it.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)What others (including me) have suggested is that you stand up and get loud to find real progressive candidates.
It's pretty clear what your intentions actually are, and getting a more progressive clearly is not part of it.
And that's the only reason I engaged you in the first place.
Enjoy your stay, Sparky.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)Obviously, he's a liar.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Obama is not running in 2014.
Still can't name the blue dogs in Congress that upset you ... dead give away.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)you are cementing my resolve.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)who probably does not vote for Dems anyway, is going to stay home.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)THIS is why you're about to see 2010 writ large.
Blue Dogs so cocksure they can go it alone.............good luck with that.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)of the truth.
No actual Democrat would want to see another 2010.
But we will take another 2012.
And that's what's going to happen. Lacking any ideas, the GOP has nothing to run on.
Their only hope is to try every method possible to suppress the vote.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)Obama and Pelosi are taking care of that.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/12/pelosi-im-not-thrilled-with-obamas-fiscal-cliff-proposal----but-its-not-a-benefit-cut.php
Pelosi was responding to a question about Obamas main concession to House Speaker John Boehner: a measure called Chained CPI that would re-index Social Security payments to a lower level of inflation.
Though Chained CPI would reduce lifetime benefits relative to the current cost of living adjustment formula, Pelosi said she does not consider it a benefit cut.
No, I dont, consider it a benefit cut, she said. I consider it a strengthening of Social Security.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I remember these posts from 2009. And they think we will fall for it again.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)The OP has doubled his post count since this morning.
And sadly, some here still have not figured it out.
Amorphous outrage is the best kind.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)you Blue Dogs gettin' worried you can't carry the day?
You're right. You need all hands on deck or you lose.
Good luck with that.
treestar
(82,383 posts)You're the one not worrying about that.
What an attitude. You're never going to get anywhere, ever, with anything. We don't need such hands on deck. We need people who will fight, not roll over for Republicans so they can get even more of the world they want.
But we know you are trying to discourage everybody with this stuff.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)More name calling and republican politics!
That'll do it!
treestar
(82,383 posts)And helping Republicans.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)there's one issue with your idea.........
It's you Blue Dogs who hold Republican politics.
We're the "fucking retards," remember?
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... have a persecution complex.
First, he writes an OP in which he's basically going to sit down and shut the fuck up (by not voting).
Then, when people here suggest that he get UP and get involved finding true progressive candidates .... what does he hear??
"Shut the fuck up"
Sad really.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)and that error follows with all the rest of yours.
But, there you go, Blue Dog. You have all the answers.
They'll come in handy when you need to win in 2014.
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)How do you guys keep spinning this fable and have the nerve to chastise folks for not believing it?
This is the plan, the multi-year dance is all about getting it through and possibly getting the TeaPubliKlans to take some of the blame or at least to piss off some of their partisan loyalists by getting a little revenue.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)of the Blue Dogs who created the meme.
The problem they are having is that less and less are falling for it.
Flashmann
(2,140 posts)It doesn't occur to you that for the real powers,those who own the politicians,your reluctance to vote is one of their desired results?To them,your non vote is as good as a vote FOR their agenda.
I've been of the opinion,for years,that part of their game plan is to muddy the politcal waters with so much bullshit,that it turns off voters to the point they do exactly what you might do.You will have effectively let them manipulate you into passively,by your own non-participation,support the very policies you,as a Dem,hate.They count on people like you disenfranchishing themselves.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)We fell for it year after year.
The result is that Barack Obama is now enacting THEIR agenda for them.
Tell me again why I should vote for a Democrat?
Flashmann
(2,140 posts)Why would you not?What is the alternative?
My threats?If you perceive any sort of threat in what I wrote,you have a problem,in a severe reading comprehension deficit.I merely suggested that you take a deep breath,pause and think.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)Pelosi was responding to a question about Obamas main concession to House Speaker John Boehner: a measure called Chained CPI that would re-index Social Security payments to a lower level of inflation.
Though Chained CPI would reduce lifetime benefits relative to the current cost of living adjustment formula, Pelosi said she does not consider it a benefit cut.
No, I dont, consider it a benefit cut, she said. I consider it a strengthening of Social Security.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/12/pelosi-im-not-thrilled-with-obamas-fiscal-cliff-proposal----but-its-not-a-benefit-cut.php
Flashmann
(2,140 posts)Vote for the repub running for the same seat that wants to do much more damage.Don't vote at all.Either works toward the same end.Just man up and do one or the other,and do it without so much damn whining.As someone else already pointed out,that'll teach 'em!
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)This progressive is sitting down and shutting up now, as instructed.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)and pushing a discredited and debunked neoliberal agenda.
We are really screwed as a country because the vast majority of our elected officials in Washington are the enemies of the American people because they don't serve them.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)they are using human beings as bargaining chips.
You just can't get any lower than that.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)or is your involvement limited to voting once every 2 years? Let somebody else do it?
Sid
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)Now THAT'S funny!
They make all kinds of progressive promises while campaigning, then stab us in the back when in office.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)You're quite the entitled little f*ck. I've worked my entire life to elect Democrats to office.
And, my "thanks" for that is to sit by and watch a man I admired, that I worked my ass off to get elected and re-elected, tell me to eat cat food while he cements his "legacy" at my expense.
Yes, it's someone else's turn to stand in line and get screwed by a Democrat. I've done it for a lifetime and I'm moving out of your way. Have a turn.
I'm old. I'm tired. And, I'm sick of being screwed royally by the people I supported.
Have. At. It.
Step. Up.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)I'm glad you find Seniors being forced to eat cat food so damned funny.
This "fucking retard" is stepping out of your way.
Your turn.
Marr
(20,317 posts)He's in Canada, IIRC. Pretty odd, admonishing others for 'not being involved enough'.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)It's just too funny!
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)I'm just refusing to be your cat toy any longer. I'm reaching out with my claws and scratching your eyes out.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Your sad little OP is competing with about 10 other "I'M OUTRAGED!!!!" OPs.
And as you can tell, no one is really paying attention to yours, other than a couple of us who decided it might be fun. And it has been.
If you are going to try and inflame outrage on the left, there are a few things you need to do.
1) You need a link to some topic that liberals care about. Its best to not use YAHOO or obvious right wing sites. Good sources are FireF=DogLake, Huffpo, or CommonDreams (a favorite DU outrage site)
2) A generic rant about unnamed blue dogs doesn't cut it. If you are going to rant about blue dogs you need to name a couple who are actually in congress now. Throwing out Zell Miller is a dead give away.
3) You need to pretend you care about some liberal causes so that when you respond to people, you can toss those in as a way to demonstrate how sincere you are.
If you don't follow these basic faux outrage principles, people will come to see what all the outrage is about, and then leave for a better place on DU to be outraged.
Last point ... one of the reasons I keep responsing to your OP and kicking it to the top is that doing so helps push other (far better prepared) faux outrage OPs down the list.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Good luck, Blue Dog.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Glitterati
(3,182 posts)Occulus
(20,599 posts)how "unelectable" they are, and then proceed to rub our noses in it by pledging YOUR support for... you guessed it... BLUE DOGS WHO, ACCORDING TO *YOU* AND EVERYONE LIKE YOU, ARE "ELECTABLE."
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)for the latest prime example that the biggest Blue Dog of all ran out of the race.
Response to Occulus (Reply #78)
SidDithers This message was self-deleted by its author.
treestar
(82,383 posts)in every odd numbered year, threatening not to vote in mid-terms and letting Republicans win. This is just like DU2 in 2009.
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)Must be nice to snipe and guffaw with none of your skin in the game and pretty easy to cheerlead other people's future put up for phony ass grand bargains.
Look we get this is a cool game theory practice and a interesting hobby for you but this is OUR LIVES AND OUR MONEY, so it isn't fucking play time for us.
Why the hell don't you tend to your own affairs or is this your Harper victory lap?
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)If Democrats help Republicans destroy a main pillar of our party, there will be no party. It'll be in as much disarray as we see repubs in today. Of course, that IS part of the oligarchs plan and we all know who the Republicans and Third Way Democrats serve.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)It wasn't hard to figure out the Democratic Party has been infiltrated.
The last real Democrat who got the presidential nomination was John Kerry.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And I get it...why I am an independent.
But what you were told of finding the progressive and voting for him/ her sends far more of a message.
Regardless, you know where you should vote where it directly impacts you? No not the Federal elections you silly...if you are that bummed out, I get it...your local boards, your local judges...those elections matter a lot more than people think. You knw why? You want a progressive in Congress? Where do you think those politicians first run at?
So you want to give up on the Feds...sure whatever...I think you are correct by the way...many people will stay home...ths has miscalculation and throwing the base all over...but do get involved locally.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)to play any kinds of games with people's lives.
Choosing between paying for a doctor visit instead of food is hard enough already.
He has no right to cause stress to old, sick people like me.
It's NOT kabuki for us - it's life and death.
I just spent 6 days without my meds because I couldn't stretch my social security check through a 5 week month.
Not. Fucking. Funny. Cute. or Smart.
Just. Stop!
I've worked my whole life to elect Democrats. Pardon me if I'm too tired to keep getting up while being kicked in the teeth by those same people day after day.
No. More.
Not. Another. Day.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)No. I just told you a real fact...you don't want to vote in federal elections...by all means. I gave up being a democrat a while back, because the party at senior levels has been back stabbing the base for years....decades even.
Where these illusory progressive pols cut their teeth, as well as republicans, blue dogs, and yes greens...is at those local boards nobody pays attention to, well except the media.
<----- we are it...so we pay attention to these lovely boards non seem to care about until...well...it affects their lives.
You know where the DLC started this take over effort of the democratic party? 1985. Care to look at a calendar and realize this will be a generational fight. It has been, and it starts at your local school board and city council.
Many of us, on the progressive side, have been urging "good democrats" to stop paying so much attention to the top and develop those political cadres at the bottom for now fifteen years...this is predictable.
Without that pressure from the bottom...well then.
And yes, this is politics 101 by the way.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)What I need is a Democratic party that doesn't make me out to be a liar every time I try to convert a Republican voter.
Obama and Pelosi make it impossible to do anything at a local level when they give away social security.
I haven't a hope in hell of convincing anyone to vote for a DEM who will give away social security and everything else.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/12/pelosi-im-not-thrilled-with-obamas-fiscal-cliff-proposal----but-its-not-a-benefit-cut.php
Pelosi was responding to a question about Obamas main concession to House Speaker John Boehner: a measure called Chained CPI that would re-index Social Security payments to a lower level of inflation.
Though Chained CPI would reduce lifetime benefits relative to the current cost of living adjustment formula, Pelosi said she does not consider it a benefit cut.
No, I dont, consider it a benefit cut, she said. I consider it a strengthening of Social Security.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)You need to work for it!
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)not anymore.
Time for the Blue Dogs to step up. They can do it without us "fucking retards."
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)You already lost.
And I am not a blue dog, likely to the left of you.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)I've actually had quite a good life.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Because we in are in this mess since Republicans never stay home. With about 49% of the voters with them, that means they can run things because Democrats throw hissy fits because they don't get their way, allowing republicans to gain footholds (see 2010). Anyone who can't see that is not really a progressive, as I prefer to think of those as smart people.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)that's why I'm staying home - because I'm NOT a republican and I don't vote for politicians who act like one.
treestar
(82,383 posts)is the answer? That's just silly. Deal in reality. Sarah effin Palin got 48% of the vote, was it? Nearly half the country is idiotic wing nuts, so let's give them even more power. Yeah that will cause progress.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)I'm counting on the Blue Dogs carrying the day.
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahha!
treestar
(82,383 posts)If you really were a progressive, why would you do what would make things worse?
Sorry, I just hate attitudes like the one you express. It allows Republicans to make even more progress. They don't do this. They grab onto every bit of progress they make.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)you need more than Blue Dogs?
Yeah, sorry, I'm not enough of a "fucking retard" to keep pulling my weight while you folks call me names.
Enjoy.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I guess you'll be happy to let Republicans continue gerrymandering, proposing to make fetuses into persons and changing the electoral college so as to advantage the Republicans - let's have a Republican President too then. At least Blue Dogs can get elected and they don't cry about it when they have to deal with the Republicans.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)Now go pull your weight.
Oh, here's a clue.......you just aren't going to win many over to your side by calling them "fucking retards" and cutting their social security.
UBEEDelusional
(54 posts)even write in a name if you have to.
'Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.'
John Quincy Adams
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)unless it's a qualified write in.
Georgia has the worst ballot access for write in candidates in the country.
If you write in an unqualified candidate, it's simply thrown out. No need to go to the polls.
UBEEDelusional
(54 posts)Now I understand.
Makes sense on your part.
You really should consider moving to a more liberal state, life is to short to live in such a place.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)my life is here.
Not moving. Especially not for the likes of Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi after today.
UBEEDelusional
(54 posts)and fewer asshats!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)When potus gets a mandate ovet his promose to defend the big three...this is not a hisifit
Parties change. As to the OP...he missed tne historic lesson, but so did you. The lesdons, mind you, are different
tjwash
(8,219 posts)Your concern is extremely touching...and FWIW, you are all very cute when you are mad.
That said...could the 4 members that are pulling this shit please put your fucking sock-puppets away? They are starting to get boring as hell.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)That's why Obama can't win!
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Glitterati
(3,182 posts)Obama couldn't get a Supreme through the nominating process if he tried.
See. Susan. Rice.
G_j
(40,370 posts)unethical redistricting also contributed, but low turnout was the final straw: pure hell; http://www.ncpolicywatch.com/2013/04/02/the-wrecking-ball-keeps-pounding/
KharmaTrain
(31,706 posts)...and with the possibility of the Senate falling to rushpublicans in 2014 staying home only plays into the teabaggers hopes. The way to get a bigger place at the table that progressives and liberals now lack is by having larger representation in Congress...building a stronger base that can be the makers and breakers on deals in Congress. Right now that doesn't exist and sitting home in 2014...where Obama's not on the ballot...is punishing possible additional progressive/liberal voices and votes...more seats at the table.
In 2010 many Democrats stayed home...and we're still dealing with the after-effects. Want even more teabaggers? Stay home in 2014. Want to hurt progressive/liberal causes, stay home and think you're "punishing" Democrats and end up with more budget slashers and right wingers.
There's a strong justification to feel pissed...I am as well, but the time to voice our objections is now. Email, send letters, make phone calls...let your representatives (especially Democrats) know what you feel. Instead of pouting and threatening to take your ball and go home...it's time to get in the game!
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)when they behave like Republicans.
KharmaTrain
(31,706 posts)...and help the rushpublicans get a bigger majority in the House and take the Senate. Knock yourself out...
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)nothing else is working.
Voting for the lesser of 2 evils has never worked.
KharmaTrain
(31,706 posts)I'm looking for people to get out in the streets...not hide in their basements. Best of luck to ya!
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)I assume the republicans are going to screw me.
Now, I can quit hoping the DEMs won't help them.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... Cone of Silence true believers use when you are saying something they just don't want to hear. Of course, when the Democrats get handed their ass in 2014, which becomes more likely with every betrayal, you'll make a convenient scapegoat for why they lose. Seems Democrats and Republican politicians have at least one thing in common, neither is EVER responsible for the results of the corrupt horseshit they pull. EVER!
Mark my words.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)For once, I'm going to sit back and enjoy watching the Blue Dogs get their asses handed to them.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)On some, I hold my nose. On others, I give my nose a break.
"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)Thank you for reminding me, Tierra_y_Libertad.
Buffalo Bull
(138 posts)The answer to your question is somewhere in the answer to my question.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)but it sure as hell didn't matter, did it?
Thanks, Supreme Court.
Hey, I can even post a picture of me and Al Gore at a private fundraiser!
Buffalo Bull
(138 posts)New York State was in Gore's column from day one.
My premise is as follows If You voted Gore with enthusiasm or if you voted Nader with regrets you would be most likely to vote for the blue dog.
My advice will be to vote for the Blue Dog. If a few more house seats the house GOP will be even more stubborn and in the Senate as well As far back as Gingrich the hard core right gained its clout in off year elections not in the Presidential years.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)but I supported Gore all the way. It was clear that W was a Cheney puppet and an idiot!
I wouldn't call it enthusiastic, but there was no way in hell I was going to "give" Georgia to Bush without a fight.
Buffalo Bull
(138 posts)Ralph Nader had always been a hero. Even though New York was not contested, and I know no one in Florida, I feel I may have encouraged some misguided soul in the land of the dangling chad to vote for Ralph.
tabbycat31
(6,336 posts)There are some districts (there was a thread about rural voters last week) that are just not winnable by a progressive. Would you rather have a Blue Dog who votes with the party 85% of the time or a Republican and 0%. Take your pick. 2010 was the result of a lot of progressives staying home.
Not everywhere is San Francisco.
Disclaimer-- I work on campaigns for a living and frequently get sent to Blue Dog districts. I've seen this firsthand more than once. This is a hot button issue for me.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)When Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi gave away every liberal/progressive request in Obamacare.
We'll stay home.
And, honey, I live in Georgia. The birthplace of Blue Dogs.
And, now that the Republicans control Georgia, every one of those Blue Dogs changed parties. After they spent DEM party money to get re-elected.
Blue Dogs = Republicans in DEM clothing. And, the DEMs still get no "party votes" 85% of the time OR 1% of the time.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Precisely how many of these supposed "blue dog districts" have ever had an actual progressive candidate ran with FULL Democratic Party support.
Here's the more likely scenerio, an actual progressive announces a bid for the Democratic nomination in a "blue dog district," the brilliant "strategists" at the DNC or DLC or Third Way Central cuts their legs out from under them before they barely get started.
Now, it's time for you to tell me that which I have witnessed with my own eyes, didn't really happen. Thanks in advance.
tabbycat31
(6,336 posts)My job is to look at the raw numbers and figure out exactly how many votes that the Democrat needs to win and where those votes are coming from. In fact I am working on a spreadsheet of past district performance for a state assembly candidate right now. I then figure out who is going to vote, who is not going to vote, who is definitely for us, who is definitely for the GOP (that varies by state as many don't have partisan registration), and who is persuadable.
The last district I was in was a blue dog district, and my candidate was super progressive. Because it was a presidential year in a district the president got his ass handed to him in 2008 (and 2012's loss was 29 points), the DCCC did not pay attention to us, even though they should have. The incumbent was a freshman teabagger who took out a 28 year Blue Dog in 2010. One of those who stayed home happened to be an Obama staffer. Before I went to this district, I knew (from doing my homework and my interview) that it was a blue dog district and to tone down my own liberalness before coming here. At an early fundraiser, my candidate endorsed marriage equality (a poll was done this week and that district only has 31% support for marriage equality) and that resulted in a long meeting with the campaign manager telling him to tone it down and not to touch gay rights or abortion with a 10 foot pole. I also knew that the voters I were looking for were the ticket-splitters, as the presidential campaign would focus on the sporadic Democrats. We did not have the DCCC's support financially but we did have the support of the state party.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... no, an actual progressive never gets a shot with full Democratic Party support. Instead, they back only DINOs, because it's "safer."
Thanks.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)put succinctly.
tabbycat31
(6,336 posts)In the district I worked in (which was referenced in the thread about rural voters), you needed a Blue Dog to win there. In other districts, that is not the case. There is limited resources that the national (and state parties) have. Due to the extreme gerrymandering of districts, they are not going to put $$ into a very Democratic district (where most of the progressives run) or a very Republican district (where the Democrat is seen as a sacrificial lamb). They look at the swing districts and the data about that particular district. As a staffer, I learned early on (I've been at this for 4 years now) that I am probably not going to work for a super progressive candidate that can run as one because if the seat is that safe, the candidate will not staff up.
However, if you look at the candidates with full party support in 2012, you will see people like Tammy Baldwin and Elizabeth Warren, who ran in DSCC targeted races. I would hardly call either one of them Blue Dogs. In 2010, I was sent by the DSCC to work on their targeted race for Jack Conway, who was as progressive as you can get for running in Kentucky (he was endorsed by DFA and MoveOn, hardly Blue Dog organizations).
A good example of a DCCC progressive who won in 2012 was Sean Patrick Maloney, who ran in the NYC suburbs. His district is a classic swing district that I am quite familiar with (I grew up there). In the district I was in (a rural, southern district bigger than New Jersey), he would be about as popular as Obama if not less popular (openly gay).
Here are the non-incumbent candidates that the DCCC officially backed in 2012. If you scroll down on that link, Alan Grayson's name is on there. http://www.dccc.org/pages/redtoblue
99Forever
(14,524 posts).. but save the same old tired excuses for someone else. "Conventional wisdom" is nothing more than an excuse for DINOs getting the big bucks to run on. We get it. You "campaign strategists" think we are stupid, too damn stupid to be offered the choices we actually want, so we get milquetoast, Republican Lite candidates instead. It's the same all the way up ladder, to the very top, and then we are stuck with someone claiming to be a DEMOCRAT offering up OUR hard-earned Social Security as a gift to the 1%.
You're going to have to find someone else to run your game by, 'cause this "player" is onto the scam.
tabbycat31
(6,336 posts)She could use all the support she can get as she has an uphill battle, in a progressive state. Her name is Barbara Buono and she's running for governor of New Jersey.
betterdemsonly
(1,967 posts)but not ok to vote third party? At least a third party voter isn't completely abdicating responsibly.
The truth is the Bluemutts and the "New Dummycrats" probably like the fact that you are not voting at all.
I will definitely vote for progressive dems. Social security privatizing types. Not.
I voted for Gore in 2000. Having said that Obama has proved lesser evil to be bogus. Romney could not have gotten a majority to support chained cpi. The dems would have fought him.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)I'll think about it. Until then, it's hold my nose and learn to live with the stink of compromise and corruption.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)There are more than two choices.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)Republican, Republican Lite (Blue Dog DEM) and Neil Boortz wannabes.
Not much choice in Zell Miller Land.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)I'm stuck in a purple part of California and I often have the same choices as you. I don't know if your state has an initiative process but in CA, even if I've no one from which to choose in local or even state races, there are always initiatives to vote on. Allow me to offer you a (modified) proverb: Those who do not vote are no better off than those who cannot vote. Something to think about.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)When I walk into a polling place and ask for a DEM ballot, I get laughed at by everyone in the place; made fun of. Yes, I live in republican hell - where they vote 90% R.
I don't have to endure that kind of bullshit to vote for someone like Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi who are willing to throw me and my child, on survivor benefit social security for my deceased husband, to the wolves.
I have no reason to further endure that kind of pain to vote for these people, and I simply have no intention of doing it.
On top of that, my family doesn't go to the polls unless I hound them for weeks leading up to an election. I'm done. These are multiple DEM votes thrown out the window so that Barack Obama can have a legacy.
I wish him luck. But, that's all the DEMs will ever get from me. The Blue Dogs are going to have to carry the day - until they change parties, anyway.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)No...they can't win without progressives. But chances are they also can't win without moderates.
So the moderates also get a say.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)I don't plan to help elect any more Blue Dogs.
Or anyone. I'm done. They're on their own.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Not this shit again. It is just like 2009.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)the Republicans are ecstatic.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)The prize is dangling before him, but he is unable to reach out and take it.
For the 20th time.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)to repeat and rinse the SS cuts.
treestar
(82,383 posts)And he won't have to do this shit to keep the government running. This is happening pure and simple because the Rs hold the house. And they never stay home. And they have the advantage of not caring if the government shuts down.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)Voting for the lesser of 2 evils is no choice.
treestar
(82,383 posts)If you want to look at it that way, it certainly is. You'll see the country pull to the right again. Well, if that's what you want. Republicans do not get in their own way like this.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)not here. Not ever again.
Come on, Blue Dogs, get it together!
treestar
(82,383 posts)Your staying home gives them an advantage. It is not a matter of settling - individually we don't have the power to dictate but only the power to drop out. It's something the Republicans do not do. They are busy gerrymandering and winning state houses and proposing ridiculous bills (see NC and the religion). Because they don't do this crap.
Progressive candidates don't win because Progressives give up.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)you might want to consider how many voters you alienate with name calling and stupid republican stances.
It's gonna bite you on the ass big time come 2014.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)The lesser of two evils results in the law of diminishing returns.
It's true with both sides. The country is stuck in a political deadlock. People are not voting FOR candidates....they are voting against candidates.
I see all the time people asking why would Republicans who are middle class or poor vote for Romney? Well they really don't like Romney very much. Romney's negatives were pretty high even within the GOP. They just hate Obama more for other reasons. Guns and religion for example.
Same reason many here admit they only voted for Obama because of the Supreme Court and to keep Romney out. So we are just as stupid.
If this is the way Americans vote every 4 years...I dont see how we can be surprised we never seem to have a president that represents the people. Our votes for our entire lives are based on keeping the other side out of power. George Washington warned us about this very clearly. He thought this is why political parties are rather dangerous to democracy. Instead of voting for ideas and for people, you are voting for a party whose ideology is controlled by a few elitists at the top. It's a herd mentality.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)En Masse. If the Republicans can have their "tea party" wing, we can too. Heck, we already are. We need to field as many progressives as possible, and the strongest ones possible. Hoping that actually can happen.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)are the ones ruining the party along with Obama. They talk of games and posturing and playing chess with people's lives. They belittle people who are hurt or disappointed in our leaders. I don't believe in staying home on election day, but those accusing you of trying to depress turnout need to look at their own behavior--which is far more toxic than any despair.
Glitterati
(3,182 posts)They just don't understand that namecalling, belittling, ugliness is what turns voters away.
But, that's OK, we're the "fucking retards," not them.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)decayincl
(27 posts)And feeling more betrayed.
senseandsensibility
(17,130 posts)if they could. And if no one but repugs vote, they will.