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Archae

(46,327 posts)
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:56 PM Mar 2013

I am finding this all hard to believe...

Apparently now being accused of rape means being 100% guilty.

I keep seeing one guy after another being released from jail, after spending 5-25 years in jail for rapes they didn't do.

But in this "all men are rapists" mentality, they are all 100% guilty.

(I'll be labeled a "rapist apologist" in 3-2-1...)

42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I am finding this all hard to believe... (Original Post) Archae Mar 2013 OP
A point of reference? Nt Tien1985 Mar 2013 #1
Beautiful example... Archae Mar 2013 #9
In your second example . . . markpkessinger Mar 2013 #16
Yes, they are guilty of statutory. Archae Mar 2013 #18
It is their responsibility to know n/t markpkessinger Mar 2013 #20
If the girl lies, how can they? Archae Mar 2013 #21
are you kidding? any question, ask for a damn license. talking about jail time. really too much? seabeyond Mar 2013 #22
If they make a decision to have sex . . . markpkessinger Mar 2013 #23
^^ this ^^ defacto7 Mar 2013 #28
SMH, ....and people here say men don't need any education to prevent rapes! bettyellen Mar 2013 #26
So you're arguing against statutory rape laws now geek tragedy Mar 2013 #37
Sadly... pipi_k Mar 2013 #39
Not sure how these are great examples.. Tien1985 Mar 2013 #19
Oh poor you. Maybe it's a backlash from when no woman was ever raped. Sheldon Cooper Mar 2013 #2
Petulant, wilful misunderstanding. Again. sibelian Mar 2013 #14
blah blah blah Sheldon Cooper Mar 2013 #29
And this was prompted by *what* exactly? gcomeau Mar 2013 #3
i find it hard to believe that anyone would be rational to post this garbage, too. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #4
+1 nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #15
I'd call it a failure of the court system, not an "all men are rapsists" issue. uppityperson Mar 2013 #5
I remember a post of yours that got hidden, about a year ago, that could best be described as Hentai Electric Monk Mar 2013 #6
If an innocent person is found to be sent to prison... Generation_Why Mar 2013 #7
That's not going to work. nt. sibelian Mar 2013 #12
3-2-1...dumbass. n/t demmiblue Mar 2013 #8
Alert Results: Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #10
Obviously, there are cases where the accused aren't found guilty. The Duke Case was an example. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #11
I remember that. Archae Mar 2013 #13
complete nonsense....... bowens43 Mar 2013 #17
There are times when accusations are false. And there are times when rapes go unreported. JVS Mar 2013 #24
Rape penalites should be increased Riftaxe Mar 2013 #30
Who said all men are rapists? UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #25
That one guy Cali_Democrat Mar 2013 #27
Exactly who's been saying thucythucy Mar 2013 #31
I haven't seen anyone claim that all men are rapists. MineralMan Mar 2013 #32
The claim that "all men are potential rapists" is very common DU, in fact Orrex Mar 2013 #33
I can't remember seeing that on DU, either. MineralMan Mar 2013 #34
With respect, I think that you missed my point. Orrex Mar 2013 #35
No. I got it. I was just extending the discussion. MineralMan Mar 2013 #36
Whoops--looks like I missed your point. Orrex Mar 2013 #40
false rape claims. same as other crimes. 2-3%. this is important for people to know and understand seabeyond Mar 2013 #38
And now an 8th-grade girl has a topless picture going around. Archae Mar 2013 #41
STOP THE PRESSES! UNDERAGE KID DOES SOMETHING REALLY STUPID! markpkessinger Mar 2013 #42

Archae

(46,327 posts)
9. Beautiful example...
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:25 PM
Mar 2013

I have yet to see just *ONE* person condemning this woman, it's painfully obvious she did this whole scheme so she could sue the school and cash in.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50143485n

She still doesn't give a damn about the years Brian Banks spent condemned as a rapist, because this woman wanted easy money.

Meanwhile, still without all the facts in yet, a couple guys have been judged to be 100% guilty in raping a 13 year old girl.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022540373

markpkessinger

(8,396 posts)
16. In your second example . . .
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:42 PM
Mar 2013

. . . the case from Torrington, CT, I haven't seen anywhere where the accused have denied having had sexual contact with the girl. If indeed they did, then by definition, they are guilty of statutory rape because the girl was underage.

Archae

(46,327 posts)
18. Yes, they are guilty of statutory.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:50 PM
Mar 2013

BUT...

Did they know the girl was only 13?
My nephew has told me about girls 14, 15, who will lie and say they are 18.

Look up Traci Lords.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traci_Lords

She lied about her age when she made her first porn movie.
Were the other actors in those movies "raping" her?

Archae

(46,327 posts)
21. If the girl lies, how can they?
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:55 PM
Mar 2013

Are all boys supposed to demand a birth certificate from now on, from the girl they are set up on a blind date with?

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
22. are you kidding? any question, ask for a damn license. talking about jail time. really too much?
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:57 PM
Mar 2013

markpkessinger

(8,396 posts)
23. If they make a decision to have sex . . .
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:02 PM
Mar 2013

. . . with someone they don't really know, and thus don't know her age for certain, then they are undertaking the risk that she may be underage. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for this line of argument. I mean, blind date or not, it's not like anybody's forcing them to have sex.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
26. SMH, ....and people here say men don't need any education to prevent rapes!
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 12:36 AM
Mar 2013

this subthread is exhibit A.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
37. So you're arguing against statutory rape laws now
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 10:45 AM
Mar 2013

because you feel it's important to defend those poor innocent men who don't know they're having sex with a 14-year old?

Here's an idea: don't fuck someone if you don't know how old they are.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
39. Sadly...
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 10:49 AM
Mar 2013

we really can't trust anyone.

I remember having to show Mr Pipi my license before he would allow himself to get really involved with me, even though we had known each other by way of a group we both were members of.

I know I didn't look my age and he wanted to make sure I was at least older than 35, which he didn't believe I was. I was actually 46 at the time.

Best policy...ask for proof. Always.

Tien1985

(920 posts)
19. Not sure how these are great examples..
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:50 PM
Mar 2013

There are lots of people condemning the woman from the Brian Banks case--here on this thread there are people saying those who make false accusations should face tough penalties (which I support, fwiw). Plus I looked up a few articles, read the comments, there is more than enough condemnation.

As far as Torrington, so far, the argument is whether it was statutory or not. Even the people bullying the girl are calling her a "snitch" not a "liar". We are people, not the jury of this case. We only have a few facts to go on, and people will decide what they think both now and as more facts emerge. If this case turns out to be a false report do you think people here will refuse to reevaluate their first assessment? If you do, I disagree with you.

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
2. Oh poor you. Maybe it's a backlash from when no woman was ever raped.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:03 PM
Mar 2013

She always did something to cause it.

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
5. I'd call it a failure of the court system, not an "all men are rapsists" issue.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:07 PM
Mar 2013

If "all men are rapists" there would be many more in prison. I'd call wrongful imprisonment a failure of the courts.

 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
6. I remember a post of yours that got hidden, about a year ago, that could best be described as Hentai
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:08 PM
Mar 2013

Did you find that hard to believe too, that people not into Hentai might not find it as hilarious as you did?

Anyone who doesn't know what that means, do a google image search with safe search off. I'm not going to post a link.

 

Generation_Why

(97 posts)
7. If an innocent person is found to be sent to prison...
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:09 PM
Mar 2013

Everyone involved in making that happen should have to serve the same amount of time.

With no statute of limitations.

It would cut down on some of that shit.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
10. Alert Results:
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:33 PM
Mar 2013

At Tue Mar 26, 2013, 06:15 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I am finding this all hard to believe...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022571870

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

This claim that there is a widely held belief that "all men are rapists" and that many rape cases are phony is pure Mens Rights woo. This is also incredibly insensitive to the DUers who have been speaking of their sexual victimization in the last couple of days. It's also stupid,nasty flamebait of the lowest order.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Mar 26, 2013, 06:29 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: The alerted post is nothing more than disruptive shit-stirring. The OP has no sense of community standards. HIDE IT!!1!!1
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Stop trying to censor everyone who says something you disagree with, alerter. Also, waving your arms and going "men's rights" every time something pisses you off, makes you look lame. It's not some sort of argument-winning trump card. Most people outside of HoF don't know what that means, or give half a shit. Personally, I disagree with the OP, but that doesn't mean it should be hidden.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Not to agree in any way with the post, but it is something that should be argued with rather than banned.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Agree with alerter 100% - I am a sexual assault survivor and a feminist and I have had it with this crap on DU

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
11. Obviously, there are cases where the accused aren't found guilty. The Duke Case was an example.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:35 PM
Mar 2013

And fuck, that was a mess on DU.

Archae

(46,327 posts)
13. I remember that.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 09:40 PM
Mar 2013

And like a few (VERY few) cases pointed out here at DU, the "dumb rapist jocks" were all judged to be 100% guilty.

JVS

(61,935 posts)
24. There are times when accusations are false. And there are times when rapes go unreported.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:08 PM
Mar 2013

And there are times when people go free because there is not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

False accusations are bad.
Unreported rapes are also bad, but that is somewhat mitigated by the fact that it is the victim's decision whether s/he wants to go through the process of prosecution or not.
People going free because of reasonable doubt is appropriate under our legal system.


Something I find morally objectionable is the vehement rejection and attempt to silence particular stories because they don't fit a desired narrative.

Riftaxe

(2,693 posts)
30. Rape penalites should be increased
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 05:41 AM
Mar 2013

and required by law to prosecute, false rape accusations should have the same penalties and also be required enforcement.

It might take a few years to shake out the chaff, but perhaps it will address the seriousness of both crimes.

Neither crime should ever be less a penalty the willful homicide. Up to that i am quite comfortable with.

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
32. I haven't seen anyone claim that all men are rapists.
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 09:42 AM
Mar 2013

So, you start off with an incorrect premise there.

Rarely, someone is wrongly convicted of rape and then ends up being released after serving time. That's rare, though. I notice that you provide no links to such cases.

Rape is wrong. It is that simple. Men who rape are criminals. It is that simple.

Orrex

(63,212 posts)
33. The claim that "all men are potential rapists" is very common DU, in fact
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 10:07 AM
Mar 2013

Of course, 99 times out of 100 it's men claiming that women have made that claim, so...

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
34. I can't remember seeing that on DU, either.
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 10:15 AM
Mar 2013

Rapes happen. Clearly. Generally, it is men raping women. I think the number of people in prison for rape who are men outnumber those who are women overwhelmingly.

What does that mean? It means that some men rape women. Sadly, it happens far, far too often, and often goes unreported, so we have no idea, really, just how many rapes occur.

But, all men are not rapists, obviously. Are all men potential rapists? I don't think so. I'm a man, and I can absolutely guarantee that I wll never rape anybody, nor have I ever raped anybody. It's not in my makeup at all.

But, I don't see people saying that, anyhow.

Eliminating rape from our society is probably not possible, but it's a worthy goal. I'm in favor of trying to do just that.

It may well be that some men think that women consider all men to be rapists or potential rapists. If so, those men are mistaken.

Orrex

(63,212 posts)
35. With respect, I think that you missed my point.
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 10:36 AM
Mar 2013

I Googled the phrase "potential rapist" and found that it pops up fairly frequently on DU, but it's almost always used by a man claiming that some woman/women said that all men are potential rapists.

In the rare instance when a woman uses the phrase, I find that she's usually quoting a post by a man who'd made that claim.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
38. false rape claims. same as other crimes. 2-3%. this is important for people to know and understand
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 10:45 AM
Mar 2013

with the purposeful agenda of the mens right advocates spreading the false number at 45-75%

FBI statistics
FBI reports consistently put the number of "unfounded" rape accusations around 8%. In contrast, the average rate of unfounded reports for "Index crimes" tracked by the FBI is 2%.[2] However, "unfounded" is not synonymous with false allegation.[3] Bruce Gross of the Forensic Examiner says that:

This statistic is almost meaningless, as many of the jurisdictions from which the FBI collects data on crime use different definitions of, or criteria for, "unfounded." That is, a report of rape might be classified as unfounded (rather than as forcible rape) if the alleged victim did not try to fight off the suspect, if the alleged perpetrator did not use physical force or a weapon of some sort, if the alleged victim did not sustain any physical injuries, or if the alleged victim and the accused had a prior sexual relationship. Similarly, a report might be deemed unfounded if there is no physical evidence or too many inconsistencies between the accuser's statement and what evidence does exist. As such, although some unfounded cases of rape may be false or fabricated, not all unfounded cases are false.[4]
[edit]British Home Office study (2005)

A 2005 study, "A gap or a chasm? Attrition in reported rape cases" was the largest and most rigorous study to date commissioned by the British Home Office on UK rape crime, from the initial reporting of a rape through to legal prosecutions. The study was based on 2,643 sexual assault cases (Kelly, Lovett, and Regan, 2005). Of these, police departments classified 8% as false reports.[5]
The researchers noted that some of these classifications were based simply on the personal judgments of the police investigators and were made in violation of official criteria for establishing a false allegation. Closer analysis of this category applying the Home Office counting rules for establishing a false allegation and excluding cases where the application of the cases where confirmation of the designation was uncertain reduced the percentage of false reports to 3%. The researchers concluded that "one cannot take all police designations at face value" and that "[t]here is an over-estimation of the scale of false allegations by both police officers and prosecutors." Moreover, they added:

The interviews with police officers and complainants’ responses show that despite the focus on victim care, a culture of suspicion remains within the police, even amongst some of those who are specialists in rape investigations. There is also a tendency to conflate false allegations with retractions and withdrawals, as if in all such cases no sexual assault occurred. This reproduces an investigative culture in which elements that might permit a designation of a false complaint are emphasised (later sections reveal how this also feeds into withdrawals and designation of ‘insufficient evidence’), at the expense of a careful investigation, in which the evidence collected is evaluated.[6][7][8]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape

Archae

(46,327 posts)
41. And now an 8th-grade girl has a topless picture going around.
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 03:50 PM
Mar 2013
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014436134

This is why I ask for all the facts to be in before an accusation and/or judgment is made.

A 13-year old girl takes a picture of herself topless, and sends it around?

markpkessinger

(8,396 posts)
42. STOP THE PRESSES! UNDERAGE KID DOES SOMETHING REALLY STUPID!
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 05:10 PM
Mar 2013

Dude, what you don't seem to get is that it simply does not matter how sexually precocious a 13-year-old is, or how seductive she might be, or even how much she is (alleged) to have "wanted" it. NONE of that in any way mitigates the responsibility of any adult, when choosing to have sex, to be certain of the age of their potential sexual partner. And if they choose to have sex with someone of whose age they are uncertain, then they are undertaking the risk that the person might be underage, and thus are assuming the risk of criminal prosecution that goes along with that. PERIOD. There are no "Yeah, buts" in this. There are no mitigating factors. Statutory rape is statutory rape.

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