On the new pope...he is a Jesuit

[nadinbrzezinski]

This might come as news to those not familiar with the Catholic Church, and I am not Catholic, but that is good news. The Jesuits believe in education, in science. They embraced the enlightenment as part of human progress, to the point they were expelled from Nueva España, future Mexico, forty years before independence. These rabble rousers had crazy ideas about self determination you see.

Jesuits see no problem with the secular world.

In fact, if you know a thing about Liberation Theology...he was also the number two vote getter last time round. Which tells me the reform wing of the Church won this round.

And that is a good thing.

Holy Molly, from what tweety just said...a liberation theologian was elected...

[spanone]

1. k&r...

[Lex]

2. And he's a homophobe

too, Jesuit or not.

[amuse bouche]

42. Exactly

But don't mention that around here...or else

[iandhr]

44. It took them more then four hundred years....

... to apologie to Galileo. Its going to be a very long time before the see the light on gay rights.

[Lex]

45. They know the Church is withering

but they can't embrace tolerance, and that's their choice. Suffer the consequences I suppose.

[quaker bill]

87. I do not know if he is phobic

but he is clearly not a supporter of equal rights. I think these two things are different in at least degree. I don't agree with him and fully support equal rights, I am just saying there may be some measure of difference between him and some of our RW Taliban.

[MNBrewer]

109. I don't see how there's a dime's worth of difference between being phobic and no equality

[quaker bill]

132. It may be a little subtle for some here

First understand that I do not agree with the catholic stand and that our Meeting treats all couples the same in regard to marriage regardless of gender composition.

That said I can detect a difference between those who simply do not bless same gender unions, and those who would do bodily violence against the same gender oriented. I oppose both, but those oriented to the same gender can simply choose another church in the first case. There is no survival based need to be a catholic.

[MNBrewer]

141. One need not be violent to be a homophobe

[quaker bill]

152. True, but for the term to have real meaning

It should take more than lack of agreement to earn the title. Calling those who are same gender oriented "sinners" is not enough, because there are only "sinners" and "saints" in their worldview with virtually everyone falling on the "sinner" side of the divide.

Quakers do not have use for either term.

[MNBrewer]

155. well that's just peachy

[Puzzledtraveller]

89. they all oppose homosexuality!

That is never going to change, why is it surprising to so many? I don't get it.

[Lex]

93. Did I say I was surprised? I don't care if "they all are."

I'm just stating a fact that people seem all too eager to ignore, or justify by saying "they all are!"

[Puzzledtraveller]

95. I understand what you mean

Didn't mean to ignore your message, sorry about that.

[YoungDemCA]

137. One can say that about literally every Cardinal

It's part of the job description.

My point is, were you expecting differently?

[Lex]

142. Did I say I was expecting differently? And so what if "they all do it."

What kind of justification is that supposed to be anyway?

[Electric Monk]

3. and an accessory to murder?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022501213
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2011/jan/04/argenitina-videla-bergoglio-repentance

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. I will say this...every time governments do that crap

The church internally has great divisions between liberals and conservatives. His future actions will speak as to what faction he is part off and how much of a puppet or not.

The past of the order gives me some hope that the Dominicans lost.

[JDPriestly]

53. On the other hand . . ..

The greatest of these clerical orders by far was the Society of Jesus, founded in 1540 by the Spaniard Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556). Loyola, who had been a soldier, turned to religion after receiving a painful wound in battle. From the first the Jesuits were the soldiery of the Catholic church; their leader bore the title of general, and a military discipline was laid down in Loyola’s Spiritual Exercises, which set the rules for the order.
. . . .

While the Society of Jesus was the chief new instrument of the Catholic Reformation, an old instrument of the church was also employed—the Inquisition. This special ecclesiastical court in its papal form had been started in the thirteenth century to put down the Albigensian heresy, and in its Spanish form in the fifteenth century to bolster the efforts of the new Spanish monarchy to force religious uniformity on its subjects. Both papal and Spanish inquisitions were medieval courts that used medieval methods of torture, and both were employed against the Protestants in the sixteenth century.

Protestant tradition sometimes makes both the Inquisition and the Jesuits appear as the promoters of a widespread reign of terror. Certainly the Jesuits and their allies made full use of the many pressures and persuasions any highly organized society can bring to bear on nonconformists. And the Inquisition did perpetrate horrors against former Muslims in Spain and against Catholicsturned-Protestants in the Low Countries.

http://bigsiteofhistory.com/the-jesuits-and-the-inquisition-1540-1556-the-protestant-reformation

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. But that same order has been at the forefront of change, progressive liberal change,

Over the last 300 years.

[pnwmom]

26. Or he may have saved lives. Depending on which account you believe.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/pope/2013/03/13/pope_francis_i_cardinal_jorge_bergoglio_first_pope_from_americas_austere_jesuit.html

At least two cases directly involved Bergoglio. One examined the torture of two of his Jesuit priests — Orlando Yorio and Francisco Jalics — who were kidnapped in 1976 from the slums where they advocated liberation theology. Yorio accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads by declining to tell the regime that he endorsed their work. Jalics refused to discuss it after moving into seclusion in a German monastery.

Both men were freed after Bergoglio took extraordinary, behind-the-scenes action to save them — including persuading dictator Jorge Videla’s family priest to call in sick so that he could say Mass in the junta leader’s home, where he privately appealed for mercy. His intervention likely saved their lives, but Bergoglio never shared the details until Rubin interviewed him for the 2010 biography.

Bergoglio — who ran Argentina’s Jesuit order during the dictatorship — told Rubin that he regularly hid people on church property during the dictatorship, and once gave his identity papers to a man with similar features, enabling him to escape across the border. But all this was done in secret, at a time when church leaders publicly endorsed the junta and called on Catholics to restore their “love for country” despite the terror in the streets.

Rubin said failing to challenge the dictators was simply pragmatic at a time when so many people were getting killed, and attributed Bergoglio’s later reluctance to share his side of the story as a reflection of his humility.

[a la izquierda]

94. He didn't open his mouth.

He was a coward.
Archbishop Oscar Romero opened his eyes and his mouth...and he was assassinated for it.
No, failing to challenge dictators might mean one would be killed for voicing their conscience, something Bergoglio was clearly afraid of doing. Spineless priests like him let the lower clergy die for their beliefs in defense of innocent people.



Full disclosure: I'm Catholic and have a PhD in Latin American history.

[pnwmom]

96. More black and white thinking.

He was "spineless" because he didn't choose to become a martyr like Romero, even though he probably saved some lives in his "spineless" way, and there's no proof that in speaking out he could have accomplished anymore than he did.

[a la izquierda]

119. Sweet.

Well, next time I see some horrendous injustice, I'll be sure to be quiet.

Lots of priests did what their conscience demanded. The upper echelons did very little. I don't have a whole lot of patience for spiritual leaders who are supposed to protect their flocks.

Edit to add: I'm sure the mothers who lost children, and children who grew up with their parents' murderers think his cowardice is comforting.

[pnwmom]

120. It's easy to make judgments without knowing any details of the situations involved.

Not so easy to actually be in those situations, making decisions on the fly.

Since we don't know what really happened-- and probably never will -- I'm withholding judgment till I can see by his actions what kind of a person he is.

[skepticscott]

129. It's certainly easy

For the Catholic Church to do so.

[KittyWampus]

102. keeping his mouth shut perhaps enabled him to work behind the scenes to help others

[Arugula Latte]

101. He could save thousands of lives tomorrow by embracing contraception in the form of condoms

to stop the spread of AIDs. But no, the church will continue to live in the Dark Ages.

[pnwmom]

118. I read somewhere yesterday that he isn't opposed to condoms to stop disease.

But I think he would save fewer lives than you think no matter what he said because few people take the Vatican seriously on this issue anymore.

[Zoeisright]

144. Oh WOW!!!!

Not opposed to condoms to stop DISEASE? STOP THE PRESSES!! He is OBVIOUSLY so LEARNED and UP TO THE MINUTE with SCIENCE!!

Christ on a crutch. You really will reach for anything to support the Catholic church, won't you?

[pnwmom]

145. You said he should embrace condoms to help stop the spread of HIV.

I said he doesn't oppose this use.

[JHB]

4. His actions will reveal him, in whatever direction that may be.

[curlyred]

77. + 1000

[JaneyVee]

5. Can they not find a single Cardinal without a shady past?

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Nope...I will tell you why

The politics and backstabbing make the republicans look like children. I was told this, quite off the record, by a local priest who knew his chances of rising up in the hierarchy was next to nil. As a believer in Liberation theology he was lucky not to be defrocked. I wish I were kidding

[cali]

24. He has NEVER been a believer in Liberation Theology. Gads.

You post so much misleading stuff, it never ceases to amaze me.

[SidDithers]

41. +1...nt

Sid

[Laelth]

86. How can you be certain he was never a believer in liberation theology?

Personally, I don't know, but I certainly hope for the reform of the RCC, and a liberation theologian from South America might be a useful vehicle for making changes that most Catholics know are essential to the survival of the institution. Not all the Cardinals are stupid. They know some change is in order. Let us hope that's what they've opted for with Francis I (a new, and radical name for a Pope).

-Laelth

[cali]

153. Because it's been reported specifically over and over for years

that he rejects Liberation Theology

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/03/14/the-politics-of-pope-francis/

But I do want to add that the new Pope has spoken out against such institutions as the IMF and has been an advocate for the poor.

[ashling]

8. How do you think they got to be

oh never mind

[pnwmom]

28. Archbishop Romero of El Salvador was a saint, speaking out against his dictatorship.

So they killed him.

[Rozlee]

92. If I believed in saints, I'd be all for canonizing him.

The Vatican sent Romero to El Salvador originally thinking that he'd serve as their tool to put a damper on the liberation theology movement. Instead, he became radicalized by the cruelty he saw daily against the common people.

"Brothers, you come from your own people. You are killing your own brother peasants when any human order to kill must be subordinate to the law of God which says "thou shalt not kill." No soldier is obliged to obey an order contrary to the law of God. No one has to obey an immoral law. It is high time you recovered your consciences and obeyed your consciences rather than a sinful order. The Church, the defender of the rights of God, of human dignity, of the person, cannot remain silent before such an act of abomination. We want the government to face the fact that reforms are valueless if they are to be carried out at the cost of so much blood.

In the name of God, in the name of this suffering people whose cries rise to heaven more loudly each day, I implore you, I beg you, I order you in the name of God: stop the repression!"


Archbishop Romero was assassinated the day after he gave this speech to soldiers, begging them not to follow orders from their superiors to fight against El Salvadoran peasants. The Vatican never did much more than express outrage. The priests and nuns that followed liberation theology were on their own.

[pnwmom]

97. I'm not a fan of the Vatican, but I am curious

about what you think they could have done BESIDES expressing outrage?

Sent their shock troops?

[Rozlee]

98. Possibly leaned more directly on the right-wing governments AND the

Reagan-Bush Administration that was enabling them. As it was, they only criticized the murder of the Archbishop but never aggressively followed up on any investigations. They just allowed D'Aubuisson and his death squads to whitewash the whole thing. Many factions in the Vatican made no secret of the fact that they viewed Liberation Theology with antagonism. John Paul II was openly hostile to it, stating that it was influenced mainly by Marxism. How can Marxism be worse than what they had with death squads and genocide?

[pnwmom]

116. What does "lean more directly" mean besides speaking out more?

I really am wondering what kind of powers you think they have.

[Rozlee]

135. Basically all it means IS actually speaking out more.

Here in the United States, 24% of our population is self-described as Catholic. A good place to start would have been to openly try and hold Reagan and Bush I accountable for the carnage in Central America. The Church has a bully pulpit for preaching against abortion and homosexuality. Too bad they couldn't turn that hateful rhetoric around into accountability in urging the US to stop sending aid to murderous despots south of our borders. We had an evangelical wing that sent donations to help right-wing "anti-communist" causes south of the border back then. The everyday American didn't even know that people were being slaughtered by the tens of thousands in Central and South America. They'd hear of raped nuns and vaguely worded "death squads," but the right wing controlled the dialogue.

[pnwmom]

140. Yes! I have been very upset with the Bishops in the US for not speaking out more.

And for losing what moral credibility they had with their handling of the sex abuse crisis.

But I don't hold Bishops living under a military dictatorship to the same standards.

[Swamp Lover]

6. And he is the anti-Christ, and he is a secret Muslim, and he is a Marxist...

oh wait. That's the description of Obama on Free Republic. With so many Freeper-esque, hate filled posts on DU today, it's hard to keep things straight.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. So where exactly did I use names? FYI, you have

[amuse bouche]

47. You forgot homophobe

or was that on purpose?

[Purveyor]

78. What, 'they' haven't found out about his family harboring hitler in Argentina, yet? pending, I'm

sure. Every KNOWS about Argentina...

[skepticscott]

99. The plain and simple fact is

that if the new pope were a member here and posted his complete and honest views on gay marriage and gay rights in general, he'd be tombstoned faster than you can say Ave Maria. If he were a Republican politician espousing those views, he'd be savaged. So why does his homophobia get a free pass with so many supposed progressives?

[Swamp Lover]

103. ..."and posted his complete and honest views on gay marriage and gay rights "...

Why is the word "skeptic" in your name when obviously you have the gift of vision? You are able to see into people's heart? Wow! No wonder you are in a position to be arrogantly judgemental.

[skepticscott]

106. He wouldn't be a cardinal

and wouldn't have been elected pope if he didn't espouse the Catholic party line on gay marriage, and pretty much everything else. It doesn't take clairvoyance to know that. Just common sense, a mind untroubled by the need for apologetics and an ability to look objectively at the way the RCC works.

[Swamp Lover]

111. I remember a Senator and candidate promising opposition to gay marriage, an end

to Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as closing Guantanomo. Now, troops still in Iraq, war still on in Afghanistan, Guantanomo still open for business, but a reversal on gay marriage.

A Senator and candidate has different powers, leverage and responsibilities than does a president. A cardinal has different powers, leverage and responsibilities than does a pope. It took Nixon to open China. We will have to see what Pope Francis does with the church.

I mean, "we will have to see", those of us who aren't blessed with psychic powers.

[skepticscott]

114. And one group operates in a democracy

And the other in an authoritarian hierarchy, with unalterable doctrine dictated by the immutable and sacred word of god. Why you think this is even a remotely valid analogy is a mystery.

When your new hero announces that the Catholic Church will embrace homosexuals completely, and allow them to marry in the church, and will allow women to be priests,o you let us know. Until then, the sensible among us won't be holding our breaths.

[Swamp Lover]

115. Seemingly I'm corresponding with a child, not old enough or sophisticated enough to

realize a universal church is in a constant state of change.

Have your parents explain the Second Vatican Council to you.

[skepticscott]

121. I'll let YOU explain

what Catholic doctrines and teachings were altered as a result of Vatican II. What changes of the moment that allowing female priests or gay marriage or the use of artificial contraceptives would be came out of that wonderful change from within thingie? Enlighten us with your sophisticated knowledge.

I know you won't be able to, so I'll help...none. None at all. And that was the "biggest" change the RCC has ventured in the last 50 years.

[Swamp Lover]

123. Talking to bigots is useless.

[skepticscott]

125. I asked you for facts to back up your claim

And not surprisingly, you failed to provide any. Even less surprisingly, you fling the "bigot" label at anyone with the temerity to expose your "arguments" with facts and logic.

And yes, talking to hard core apologists is useless, at least as far as enlightening THEM goes. But those reading will note well your failure to back up your claim with anything but snark and personal attacks.

[corneliamcgillicutty]

131. He has been pope for little more than one day and is being crucified on DU. I'd say that's

very Christ-like.

[skepticscott]

159. Let's put it this way

He's getting the same treatment on a liberal, progressive website that a Republican president with the same views about women and gays, who had only been on the job one day, would get.

Well, actually...not quite the same treatment. A few more people here are praising him than would if he were a Republican president. Well, actually a lot more than a few. Tons.

[ellie]

9. My cardinal didn't win.

I adopted Cardinal Stanislaw Dziwisz.

[HereSince1628]

12. "...he was also the number two vote getter last time round" so What Cardinal broke his vow

to keep the process of a secret conclave a secret???

Hmmm, Cardinals aren't really overly good about keeping vows any more than the 50% of persons religious that can't keep the vow of celibacy

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. These things have been filtering out for years.

[HereSince1628]

32. maybe but not an excuse for breaking a solemn vow

To be honest I wonder if that's really true? Was a cardinal actually willing to go on record about breaking that vow?

[No Vested Interest]

62. Wouldn't have to be a cardinal.

There are many other people involved in a conclave, from security to clerical to housekeepers, etc.

[gateley]

76. I read it was cardinal (don't know if he was ever identified) who released his journal notes

(or something) after the last conclave. They know there are always leaks -- it's politics! This time they were worried some might go through Twitter withdrawal! I forgot who said that, but it was probably accurate.

[undeterred]

13. Yes, the Jesuits are the best and the brightest Catholic order.

Think Loyola University, among others.

[charlyvi]

16. I was educated by Jesuits.

Some of the most liberal people I've ever known. Of course, that was back in the day. Graduated from Loyola Water Tower Campus (Chicago).

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Jesuits still are pretty liberal

[jsr]

147. I'm surprised nobody mentioned Robert Drinan, the Jesuit congressman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Drinan

In 1970, Drinan sought a seat in Congress on an anti-Vietnam War platform, narrowly defeating longtime Representative Philip J. Philbin, who was serving on the House Armed Services Committee, in the Democratic primary. Drinan went on to win election to the House of Representatives, and was re-elected four times, serving from 1971 until 1981. He was the first of two Roman Catholic priests (the other being Robert John Cornell of Wisconsin) to serve as a voting member of Congress.[2][3] Drinan sat on various House committees, and served as the chair of the Subcommittee on Criminal Justice of the House Judiciary Committee. He was also a delegate to the 1972 Democratic National Convention.

Drinan was the first member of Congress, in July 1973, to introduce a resolution calling for the impeachment of President Richard Nixon, though not for the Watergate Scandal that ultimately ended Nixon's presidency. Drinan believed that Nixon's secret bombing of Cambodia was illegal, and as such, constituted a "high crime and misdemeanor". However, the Judiciary Committee voted 21 to 12 against including that charge among the articles of impeachment that were eventually approved and reported out to the full House of Representatives. As a member of the Judiciary Committee, Drinan played an integral role in the Congressional investigation of Nixon Administration misdeeds and crimes.

Throughout Drinan's political career, his consistent support of abortion rights drew significant opposition from Church leaders, who had also repeatedly requested that he not hold political office in the first place.[2][4] Drinan attempted to reconcile his position with official Church doctrine by stating that while he was personally opposed to abortion, considering it "virtual infanticide,"[5] its legality was a separate issue from its morality. This argument failed to satisfy his critics. According to the Wall Street Journal, Drinan played a key role in the pro-choice platform becoming a common stance with politicians in the Kennedy family.[6]

In 1980, Pope John Paul II unequivocally demanded that all priests withdraw from electoral politics. Drinan complied and did not seek reelection.[2] "'It is just unthinkable,' he said of the idea of renouncing the priesthood to stay in office. 'I am proud and honored to be a priest and a Jesuit. As a person of faith I must believe that there is work for me to do which somehow will be more important than the work I am required to leave.'"[7]

[nadinbrzezinski]

148. Thanks, I knew of him, but pesky profs did not mention the Jesuit part.

[jsr]

157. So was Bill Clinton

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_clinton

and the guy who came up with the Big Bang theory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

[No Vested Interest]

65. Georgetown, Marquette, Xavier, Fordham, Gonzaga, etc., etc.

[Dorian Gray]

127. Boston College!

[WilliamPitt]

130. Holy Cross

[Aerows]

14. I hope

that he ends up being an improvement over Pope Palpatine. If he would focus more on working with the poor and lay off the rhetoric towards gays and lesbians, not to mention contraceptives, it would certainly be an improvement.

[VanillaRhapsody]

18. according to his Wikipedia he renounced his Liberation Theology roots!

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Many who did, did not really do

You have a guy who lived in a small apartment and took public transport to work. Actions will tell you and I all we need to know...but I will gladly watch this one.

[JDPriestly]

56. Time will tell. The rest is just gossip and hype.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Yup, but that is all we have

As is, I think the church is ripe for a schism...but that s just me.

[JDPriestly]

84. Yes. I correctly predicted the next pope would speak Spanish. That was clear

to me. That is the language of devout Catholics today.

I also do not feel very optimistic about the future of the Catholic Church outside of Latin America. It hold too tightly to too many irrelevant, anachronistic ideas -- like no female clergy and no birth control as well as taboos on gay marriage.

Those rules just cannot work in our society in which we have so much information literally at our fingertips and in which we measure everything and reduce so much to numbers. We value facts that can be verified. That is rather incompatible with the Catholic religion and maybe with many religions in general.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

124. Are you talking about the same Latin America in which some countries have legalized same sex

unions and elected female presidents before the USA? I don't think you know much about contemporary LA. Oh and we also have lots of information at our fingertips out there BTW.

[JDPriestly]

150. I'm talking about the Latin America that has the largest number of Catholics

in the world. That is the Latin America south of our border.

I realize that parts of Latin America are liberal, but it does not change the fact that the last hope of the Catholic Church is to hold onto its many members in South America. Great numbers of Europeans are very, very cynical about the Catholic Church.

[jsr]

74. A jerk who rides a bus >>> A jerk who requires a chauffeured limo

no matter how you look at it. And indications are this new guy is not a jerk.

[VanillaRhapsody]

160. So if Rumsfeld rode a bike he would be a better guy?

[jsr]

161. Carbon footprint wise

[VanillaRhapsody]

167. How does that overcome the Hundreds of thousands of deaths he caused?

I'd take his carbon footprint for their lives back....his personal carbon is definitely killing less...

[Posteritatis]

108. I imagine his Wikipedia article will say a lot of things until the edit wars die down. (nt)

[Brickbat]

19. "In fact, if you know a thing about Liberation Theology..."

It's obvious many people do not. It's a modern political movement that uses the teachings of Jesus Christ as a framework for the struggle of the poor and oppressed. Many in the church dislike it because of its stress on politics and bringing religious ideals into the political world.

"A liberation theologian was elected"? Hardly. Bergoglio rejected the theory of Liberation Theology for the reason many in the hierarchy do: it politicizes religion. I've seen some reports saying he fought to keep the Jesuits out of the Liberation Theology movement. This is hardly a win for any reform wing that may or may not exist among the cardinals.

[reformist2]

46. You don't have to sign up for liberation theology to be a champion of the poor.

[msanthrope]

21. I was educated by Jesuits. You are so completely wrong in your assessment of them as a good

and liberal force that you made me laugh until I cried.

He is no Liberation Theologist. He is an Italianate Pope--a true insider. He was Ratzi's pick, and he will be repressive and keep the faith.

You make a fatal mistake with Jesuits when you think their education makes them liberal.

[Ikonoklast]

51. <------Educated by Jesuits.

The Superior General of the Order of Jesus isn't called "The Black Pope" for nothing.

"God's Army" is there to advance and protect the orthodoxy of the Catholic Faith, no matter what, no matter who is pope.

They may have some outspoken liberal-thinking members (who are usually ordered to shut up before too long), but, as a whole, are one of the most conservative Catholic religious orders.

OP knows nothing of the Jesuits.

[theKed]

79. One of the founding doctrines of the order:

"That we may be altogether of the same mind and in conformity [...], if [the Church] shall have defined anything to be black which to our eyes appears to be white, we ought in like manner to pronounce it to be black."

[REP]

72. "The ends justify the means"

Jesuits are not benign.

[skepticscott]

100. Exactly

Ratzi "retired" so that he could be sure that his successor would continue in the same vein. He would not have been elected if he hasn't been Ratzi's man.

[cali]

22. wow. so much wrong with this op.

Jesuits are also known colloquially as God's Marines, God's soldiers and God's storm troopers, both because their founder, St. Ignatius was a soldier and because of their dedication to spreading the faith by any means deemed necessary.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/8424576/New-pope-one-of-Gods-marines

And how about this little item?




Although in the first 30 years of the existence of the Society of Jesus there were many Jesuit conversos (Catholic-convert Jews),[50] an anti-converso faction led to the Decree de genere (1593) which proclaimed that either Jewish or Muslim ancestry, no matter how distant, was an insurmountable impediment for admission to the Society of Jesus.[51] The 16th-century Decree de genere remained in exclusive force until the 20th century, when it was repealed in 1946.[52]

Yes, the Jesuits have a history of being involved in the Sciences, but it's ridiculous to state that they have no problem with the secular world in the context of their absolute devotion to the Pope and considering that they adhere to such things as no use of birth control even to prevent AIDS.

As for liberation theology, Bergoglio rejects it.

Bergoglio is an accomplished theologian who distanced himself from liberation theology early in his career. He is thought to be close to Comunione e Liberazione, a conservative lay movement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Bergogli

There are certainly admirable Jesuits- Teilhard de Chardin comes to mind, but Bergogli appears to be quite conservative.

[MattBaggins]

29. The Mission was a great movie

What ever that has do with what you wrote.

[JDPriestly]

60. The Mission was about the Jesuits in South America. That was the point of the movie.

The Mission is a 1986 British drama film about the experiences of a Jesuit missionary in 18th century South America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mission_%281986_film%29

[RedCappedBandit]

31. "Jewish ancestry.. an insurmountable impediment..."

Wow, that is so incredibly ironic LOL.

[msanthrope]

36. I know, I noted above that you make a mistake when you confuse the Jesuit's

education and love and learning with liberalism.

[Bigmack]

38. Also... "shock troops of the Papacy"... nt

[Brickbat]

40. From Ignatius' Rules of Obedience for Jesuits:

"That we may be altogether of the same mind and in conformity...if [the Church] shall have defined anything to be black which to our eyes appears to be white, we ought in like manner to pronounce it to be black."

[MattBaggins]

48. Do you have any info on the Popes education?

What schools did he go to? I have only found that he did his doctorate in Germany. Just wondering what his upbringing and background really is.

[HiPointDem]

133. also noted for their intelligence operations.

[MattBaggins]

23. You said it "Liberation Theology"

How long will it be till Rush Limbaugh is calling him Pope Lenin?

[cali]

25. One more time: Not a proponent of Liberation Theology

[AtheistCrusader]

30. Exactly. Why does this keep getting attributed to him?

[MattBaggins]

35. Doesn't matter

There is a whole cottage industry dedicated to falsely connecting Liberation Theology to Communism. I do not think he is either but I am willing to bet that sometime next week you will see Pope Francis ---> Social Justice---> Liberation Theology---> Communism.

Just think Glenn Beck. It will be stupid but when does that stop the right?

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. First Rush would need to learn what the hell

We are talking about...should I send Rush a copy of the Sermon on the Mount?

[Brickbat]

68. He's not the only one.

[NYC Liberal]

34. By all accounts, this pope has REJECTED liberation theology.

He's also rabidly homophobic and has opposed birth control.

[rurallib]

37. that's what i understood also

[charlyvi]

39. Um....Daniel Berrigan he ain't

Activism
[edit]Protests against the Vietnam War
Berrigan, his brother the Josephite priest Philip Berrigan, and the famed Trappist monk Thomas Merton founded an interfaith coalition against the Vietnam War, and wrote letters to major newspapers arguing for an end to the war.
In 1967 Phillip was arrested for non-violent protest and sentenced to six years in prison. This, and his belief that his support of POWs during the war was not acknowledged and appreciated, further radicalized Berrigan against the U.S. government.
Berrigan traveled to Hanoi with Howard Zinn during the Tet Offensive in January 1968 to "receive" three American airmen, the first American POWs released by the North Vietnamese since the U.S. bombing of that nation had begun. The event was widely reported in the news media and has been discussed in a number of books.[4]
In 1968, he signed the “Writers and Editors War Tax Protest” pledge, vowing to refuse tax payments in protest against the Vietnam War.[5] In the same year, he was interviewed in the anti-Vietnam War documentary film In the Year of the Pig, and later that year became involved in radical nonviolent protest. He manufactured home-made napalm and, with eight other Catholic protesters, used it to destroy 378 draft files in the parking lot of the Catonsville, Maryland, draft board on May 17, 1968.[2][6] This group came to be known as the Catonsville Nine.
Berrigan was promptly arrested and sentenced to three years in prison,[7] but went into hiding with the help of fellow radicals prior to imprisonment. While on the run, Berrigan was interviewed for Lee Lockwood's documentary The Holy Outlaw. Soon thereafter the FBI apprehended him at the home of William Stringfellow and sent him to prison. He was released in 1972.[8]
Berrigan later spent time in France meeting with Thich Nhat Hanh, the exiled Buddhist monk and peace activist from Vietnam.
[edit]Plowshares Movement
Main article: Plowshares Movement
On September 9, 1980, Berrigan, his brother Philip, and six others (the "Plowshares Eight&quot began the Plowshares Movement. They illegally trespassed onto the General Electric Nuclear Missile facility in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, where they damaged nuclear warhead nose cones and poured blood onto documents and files. They were arrested and charged with over ten different felony and misdemeanor counts.[9] On April 10, 1990, after ten years of appeals, Berrigan's group was re-sentenced and paroled for up to 23 and 1/2 months in consideration of time already served in prison. Their legal battle was re-created in Emile de Antonio's 1982 film In The King of Prussia, which starred Martin Sheen and featured appearances by the Plowshares Eight as themselves.
Berrigan is still involved with the Plowshares Movement.


Father Daniel Berrigan is arrested for civil disobedience outside the U.S. Mission to the U.N. in 2006
[edit]Other activism
Berrigan maintained his opposition to American intervention in Central America, through the Gulf War in 1991, the Kosovo War, the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, and the 2003 invasion of Iraq. He is also a pro-life activist and opponent of capital punishment, a contributing editor of Sojourners Magazine, and a supporter of the Occupy movement.[10

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Berrigan

I have my doubts whether any Catholic priest would be allowed to do this these days within the framework of this church. A pity.

[Apophis]

43. And he's anti-gay and anti-women's rights.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. I do not expect perfection, but certainly an improvement.

Trust me, the man who in my opinion should be pope...could never make it in the current environment

[LTR]

64. It's a start

There was as much chance of a liberal reformer becoming pope as Sinead O'Connor. The Catholic hierarchy consists of old men very much stuck in their ways.

At least Pope Francis will likely drag the church kicking and screaming into the 20th century.

[ucrdem]

82. You know it really is a fresh start.

And I agree with the OP that the first Jesuit and first Latin American pope bodes well for Catholics and the world. When my parents' were in college, the hierarchy was pretty conservative, at least in the US, politically and theologically, with a lot of Cold War baggage spilling into the aisles.

But that was long ago and at least regarding communism, other faiths, and of course other languages, it's a whole new ball game, and the Jesuits who ran my college were a bunch of bearded anti-war protesters on motorcycles, some of them. I still remember seeing one tootling around near campus on a Sunday morning on his bike. And the nuns were breaking all the barriers except of course getting a decent paycheck.

Anyway the point of this ramble is that conservatives of any religious organization typically tend to dominate the hierarchy; that's to be expected, but not always, and from what I've seen and heard today we might see some surprising changes soon. It's happened before, in 1958, and really took off in 1961, when, as now, we also had an energetic and inspiring Democrat in the WH. So I'm hopeful! Enthusiastic rec.

[zappaman]

50. I'm confused.

Is he or is he not a Jesuit???


OP says so and is a trained historian, yet some here are saying he is not.

Which is it?

[caraher]

54. I think the dispute is about whether he adheres to liberation theology

There's no doubt that he's a Jesuit.

[zappaman]

57. So this...

"Holy Molly, from what tweety just said...a liberation theologian was elected..." may not be accurate?

And who is Molly?

[caraher]

61. Yeah, may not be accurate

And of course, it's really Holly Moly. She gets mistaken for Holy Molly all the time...

[charlyvi]

66. He's a Jesuit.

But not a follower of Liberation Theology. The two are not interchangeable.

[quakerboy]

69. I have yet to see anyone say he isnt a jesuit

But i have seen many challenges to the various beliefs of what exactly being a Jesuit entails.

Seems like there are some promising signs and some discouraging ones. No real surprises, either way. And likely enough, even if this pope does have reform in his heart, we probably won't see it till the last pope dies and can no longer contradict him. Even if he does get to wear the red shoes, he will be in a shadow.

He can hardly be a worse pope than many of his predecessors. All in all, it seems like a win win. If he continues to drive the church too conservative, the Catholic church will shrink in size and influence, and thats not such a bad thing. And if he takes a more liberal direction, it will help people, and thats not such a bad thing either.

[michigandem58]

59. Scientists don't believe in creationism /t

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Neither does the Catholic Church

They see no conflict of a universe billions of years old and well doctrine. It's not the 19th century anymore. In fact, one of the leading cosmologists is a Jesuit and works at the Observattorio Romano. Yup, he's a top notch astronomer.

[Posteritatis]

104. The Vatican's rejected creationism for longer than most DUers have been alive. (nt)

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

67. I was educated by Jesuits and the are not all followers of liberation theology. Neither

is this man.

[Brickbat]

70. From the Rules of Obedience for the Jesuits:

"That we may be altogether of the same mind and in conformity...if shall have defined anything to be black which to our eyes appears to be white, we ought in like manner to pronounce it to be black."

[HiPointDem]

134. and yet, there are lots of jesuit priests who've been scientists. a partial list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jesuit_scientists

[charlyvi]

71. At least he's not an ex-Nazi.

Faint praise, etc.

[whistler162]

73. But he is of Italian decent so

he probably has a third cousin or uncle who was a Black Shirt or knew one!

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. Oy

[whistler162]

117. Hey the haters need something to latch onto!

[Purveyor]

80. Bet his family hide fleeing nazi after ww2, argentina and all! /sarcasm eom

[RoccoR5955]

81. He's also a war criminal

In Argentina's Dirty War.

http://consortiumnews.com/2013/03/13/dirty-war-questions-for-pope-francis/

From the article:
Bergoglio, now the new Pope Francis I, has been identified publicly as an ally of Argentine’s repressive leaders during the “dirty war” when some 30,000 people were “disappeared” or killed, many stripped naked, chained together, flown out over the River Plate or the Atlantic Ocean and pushed sausage-like out of planes to drown.

The “disappeared” included women who were pregnant at the time of their arrest. In some bizarre nod to Catholic theology, they were kept alive only long enough to give birth before they were murdered and their babies were farmed out to military families, including to people directly involved in the murder of the babies’ mothers.

Instead of happy talk about how Bergoglio seems so humble and how he seems so sympathetic to the poor, there might have been a question or two about what he did to stop the brutal repression of poor people and activists who represented the interests of the poor, including “liberation theology” priests and nuns, during the “dirty war.”

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. There are conflicting stories of his role during it

And the church, might be cultural, has apologized for their role, but was not fully brought to account for it.

The truth and reconciliation commision has not fully faced to the role of the church, and sadly this is not the only place where that happened. The church is still somewhere between untouchable and infallible culturally speaking. The apology is enough for most in Argentina.

I think this guy is an improvement... What also strikes me, as an outside observer, is that the American lay community is way to the left of not just the church hierarchy, but the laity in the developing world...who is far less tolerant than American Catholics. Given this reality I suspect an American pope, or one American progressives will 100% agree with is but a dream, a distant dream.

Remember, I grew up in a country that was (is) mostly Catholic, and some of the Bishops ( let alone parish priests) are down right reactionary. In fact, some of the Reforms of the 1960s never reached the hinterlands. So in a strange way, for the south (as in Africa and LatAm, where the church is growing) this guy is a liberal, a reformer. For the American laity, he is a conservative. Though I suspect not as bad as Ratzinger.

Interesting times are ahead, but I look at this guy as a hope to move the growing concerns of the Church to the left and away from the hyper conservatism of those churches. Oh and let's dream, Dolan got elected...if you think Dolan could lead the church to a more tolerant view of birth control...you are dreaming. Moving it to tolerance of secular education for girls in Ghana or Belize will be down right revolutionary. This is what the Jesuits excel at.

[RoccoR5955]

91. Had Dolan been selected pope

I would be calling him the Wall Street Pope.

I hope that you are correct in your optimism, however if history is any judge, my pessimism will rule!

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. I expect better, not grand

We are talking of an organization of billions with strong conservative forces resisting change.

[Laelth]

85. I remain hopeful that your analysis is correct. Only time will tell. n/t

-Laelth

[B Stieg]

88. You mean "the soldiers of Christ"?

Who ran a little shindig called the Inquisition? Those guys?

[Arugula Latte]

90. Shhhh! Pay no attention to that minor blip in history ...

You're being impolite!

[nadinbrzezinski]

110. Alas those were the Dominicans,

Not the Jesuits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom%C3%A1s_de_Torquemada

[Arugula Latte]

112. No -- Not just the Dominicans. The Jesuits participated plenty, especially in the later years

of the Inquisition.

[nadinbrzezinski]

113. Not in the Spanish Office of the Holy Office

They were part of the administration of the Italian side of the house, a few remain to this days as part of the administration. They were not blood thirsty enough for the Spanish side of the house. Which is what most think about when inquisition comes to mind.

The Jesuits were more worried with issues of doctrine, egg heads and intellectuals that they are. The Dominicans got their hands dirty..and the Spanish Inquisition was a whole different animal than the Italian one. Why the Italian Holy Office lives to this day as a pretty sedate debating society while the Spanish Holy Office was gone by 1812, ok the Napoleonic invasion helped to push a pretty sclerotic organization off.

Yes, there are differences. But when people think inquisition and Autos de Fé, you are mostly talking Spain and Portugal. That was Dominicans.

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. That shindig was run by Dominicans

At least in the Americas...and Spain

And they persecuted people like Francisco Clavijero who was a Jesuit and a free thinker.

Here, a little on the founder of that mess


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom%C3%A1s_de_Torquemada

I know, I know...there are no differences in the orders... and to this day the Dominicans are to the conservative side of the house with some even members of the Opus Dei.

Maybe I should shhh and forget that I actually know these things...to appease people who don't

Oh and full disclosure, I was born and raised in Mexico and hold a Masters in Mexican History. My thesis actually involved a lot of work on the waning days of the Holy Office, that be the Inquisition for you. I got to read the interrogation transcript of Fray Fernando Teresa de Mier, the last criollo to ever face the dungeons of the office of the Holy Office in Mexico City...they were not kind. But it was a distant shadow from the Autos de Fé of the 16th and 17th century.

[jsr]

122. Don't Jesuits have to take a formal oath of obedience to the pope

because the Vatican is afraid of them being too independent?

Now Jesuits have to pledge obedience to... a Jesuit.

[fascisthunter]

126. I was Taught by Jesuit Priests

[WilliamPitt]

128. "...a liberation theologian was elected..."

All the way wrong. This new pope is a foe to liberation theology.

I say this as a Jesuit-educated Catholic.

[YoungDemCA]

136. I am intrigued...

Do you know much about him, WilliamPitt? Had you heard of him before he became Pope?

[WilliamPitt]

138. Not hard to find the info

A doctrinal conservative, Francis has opposed liberation theology, abortion, gay marriage and the ordination of women, standing with his predecessor in holding largely traditional views.

As archbishop of Buenos Aires beginning in 1998 and a cardinal since 2001, he frequently tangled with Argentina’s governments over social issues. In 2010, for example, he castigated a government-supported law to legalize marriage and adoption by same-sex couples as “a war against God.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/14/world/europe/cardinals-elect-new-pope.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0

Liberation theology has been on the run within the Church for a while now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

146. And a populist

Will be better than Ratzinger, I hope. Regarding some issues, the church will either be pulled kicking and screaming (unlikely to be honest, growth concerns are not Europe or North America) or ultimately might face a schism.

Having grown in a country with that still..somewhat growing concern, the conflict on abortion makes the one here look like a walk in the park. The laws of Baja California Norte and San Luis Potosí are those of personhood at conception, (pushed by a church with leaders that would love to go back to the 18 century, oh never mind separation of church and state) while it's very legal in Mexico City. Yes, women are facing murder one for a spontaneous abortion...usually the poor, and of native Ametican decent to boot.

Forgive me, my reaction to where he is coming from came from Mathews initial response. Time will tell if Francis will want to go back to the 15 century, or join the rest of us in the 21st in social policies. Either will further alienate Catholics somewhere within the church. I hope what a fellow Jesuit once told me, that some who resigned it, did so to protect others from above.

There is the politics in the church, that make my local city hall look open and fully transparent. Byzantine...does not start to describe it. We will see where things go, and who is the Pope does actually matters to those outside the Church in small and large ways n's ecumenical relations.

[Roland99]

139. Pope Francis’ Junta Past: Argentine Journalist on New Pontiff’s Ties to Abduction of Jesuit Priests

Democracy Now interview with one of Argentina’s leading investigative journalists, Horacio Verbitsky


Pope Francis’ Junta Past: Argentine Journalist on New Pontiff’s Ties to Abduction of Jesuit Priests
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/3/14/pope_francis_junta_past_argentine_journalist

AMY GOODMAN: Horacio Verbitsky joins us on the phone now from his home in Buenos Aires, an investigative journalist for the newspaper Página/12; Page/12, it’s called in English. He is also head of the Center for Legal and Social Studies, an Argentine human rights organization.

We welcome you to Democracy Now! I wanted to just begin by you laying out for us what you believe is important to understand about the new pope, Pope Francis.

HORACIO VERBITSKY: The main thing to understand about Francis I is that he’s a conservative populist, in the same style that John Paul II was. He’s a man of strong conservative positions in doctrine questions, but with a touch for popular taste. He preaches in rail stations, in the streets. He goes to the quarters, the poor quarters of the city to pray. He doesn’t wait the people going into the church; he goes for them. But his message is absolutely conservative. He was opposed to abortion, to the egalitarian matrimony law. He launched a crusade against the evil when Congress was passing this law, and in the very same style that John Paul II. This is what I consider the main feature on the new pope.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, now, Horacio Verbitsky, that would be true of many of the cardinals elevated during the period of John Paul and now also of Benedict XVI, this basic conservatism. But in the case of Bergoglio, there’s also the issue, as you have documented and many—and several other journalists in Argentina, of his particular role or accusations about his involvement in the dirty wars in Argentina. Could you talk about that and some of the things that—because you’ve been a leading investigative reporter uncovering the relations between the church and the government in terms of the dirty wars?

HORACIO VERBITSKY: Of course. He was accused by two Jesuit priests of having surrendered them to the military. They were a group of Jesuits that were under Bergoglio’s direction. He was the provincial superior of the order in Argentina, being very, very young. He was the younger provincial Jesuit in history; at 36 years, he was provincial. During a period of great political activity in the Jesuits’ company, he stimulated the social work of the Jesuits. But when the military coup overthrow the Isabel Perón government, he was in touch with the military that ousted this government and asked the Jesuits to stop their social work. And when they refused to do it, he stopped protecting them, and he let the military know that they were not more inside the protection of the Jesuits’ company, and they were kidnapped. And they accuse him for this deed. He denies this. He said to me that he tried to get them free, that he talked with the former dictator, Videla, and with former dictator Massera to have them freed.

Full transcript at link.

[Catherina]

164. Top Human Rights officials in Argentina dismiss Verbitzky's claims as slander

I've read a ton of accounts about his alleged complicity and there are even many people saying he had no involvement whatsover, including Adolfo Perez Esquivel who won nobel prize for for documenting the atrocities "Perhaps he didn't have the courage of other priests, but he never collaborated with the dictatorship. Bergoglio was no accomplice of the dictatorship. He can't be accused of that."

The instant rumors about Pope Francis, the page 28 retractions are a tad too convenient. A few days ago I read the scandalous allegations gem in the UK Daily Mail that so many people take as gospel these days. As I skimmed it, I was struck by all the whimpy "documents appear to show", "documents appears to reveal", "documents suggest", "alleged"...

In that same article, it states that Beroglio dismissed the 2 priest from the order and that shortly after he dismissed them, they were picked up and became convinced he betrayed them. I'm confused as to how he could have betrayed them when they were already on the Junta's radar and a layperson they were associated with gave their names, under torture, to the Junta. And the claim that he withdrew his protection is silly. They both requested to leave the order, Bergoglia accepted and expelled them accordingly. How can he be to blame if they gave up any protection being members of the order could give them? I think it's dishonest of Verbitsky to twist that into an accusation that Bergoglio withdrew his protection. What did they expect? For him and the Jesuit order to take up arms to go liberate them?

I also tend to believe Bergoglio's version that he went to the Junta and pleaded for them because they were the only 2, out of 6000, who survived. Obviously someone went to the Junta and interceded for them and if it wasn't Bergoglio, then let the brave soul who did come forward.

What do we do with all the people who stated that Bergoglio wasn't involved and on the contrary, saved their lives? Dismiss them? Jorge Rafael Videla, the Junta leader at the time, was tried and convicted. During his court testimony and in subsequent interviews, he named several priest collaborators but Bergoglio's name never came up once.

More:

n 2010, Bergoglio declined to appear in court after being called to testify as a witness in the trial of 18 military officials who ran the Naval Mechanics School, where detainees were often taken and tortured. It was the same detention center where Yorio and Jalics were taken after their arrest on suspicion of associating with leftwing guerrillas in the Buenos Aires slums where they worked under Bergoglio.

Citing “clerical immunity” granted by Argentine law, Bergoglio insisted on giving testimony in his church offices and told investigators that he personally intervened with the country’s military rulers on behalf of the young priests. A transcript of his four-hour interview has been published online by Argentine rights groups, and attorneys close to the case verify its accuracy.

...

The criticism of the new pope for not doing enough has prompted several prominent Argentine rights activists, including Nobel Peace Prize winner Adolfo Perez Esquivel, to come to his defense in recent days.

“There were some priests and bishops that helped the dictatorship, and others who spoke out and died because of it. But Bergoglio wasn’t a collaborator,” said Graciela Fernandez Meijide, a politician and prominent human rights investigator whose 16-year-old son vanished after being snatched from his bed by soldiers in the middle of the night.

...

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/03/17/world/popes-alleged-inaction-in-argentinas-dirty-war-is-scrutinized/

Former judge Alicia Oliveira goes even further, describing the claims against the Pope as an “outrage”. In an interview with the Perfil newspaper, she says that she saw Bergoglio twice weekly during the dictatorship, adding: “He was not in favour of the dictatorship, he even helped people try to leave the country.

“Once there was a young man who could not leave because he was a marked man, but he looked like Bergoglio so he gave him his identity papers, his clerical collar and his clerical robe so he could escape.

http://www.perfil.com/politica/Alicia-Oliveira-Garre-sabe-todo-lo-que-hizo-Bergoglio-20130315-0019.html

That man slipped across the border using Bergoglio's identity papers.


Oliveira was the Secretary of Human Rights of the Argentine Chancery under Rafael Bielsa and Néstor Kirchner.

Graciela Fernández Meijide, a human-rights activist and former member of the national commission on the disappearance of persons, told the Argentine press last week that “of all the testimony I received, never did I receive any testimony that Bergoglio was connected to the dictatorship.”

http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-headlines/SS-2-63399/SS-2-191502/

RIO DE JANEIRO, Mar 19 2013 (IPS) - Brazilian theologian Leonardo Boff, a leading exponent of liberation theology, the progressive current in the Latin American Catholic Church, does not believe reports that depict the new Pope Francis as collaborating with Argentina’s 1976-1983 dictatorship.

In this interview with IPS, Boff acknowledged that it was a “controversial issue,” and that there were contradictory accounts. But he said he believed prominent human rights defenders in Argentina who denied that Archbishop Jorge Bergoglio, elected pope by the Vatican, had any ties with Argentina’s military regime.

...

Q: In Argentina, the election of Bergoglio was criticised because of his supposed complicity in the abduction of two Jesuit priests during the dictatorship.

A: I know that in general the Argentine church was not very prophetic in denouncing state terrorism. Despite that, there were bishops like (Enrique) Angelleli, who died in a shady manner, (Jorge) Novak, (Jaime) De Nevares and Jerónimo Podestá, among others, who were openly critical.

But with regard to Bergoglio, I prefer to believe Adolfo Pérez Esquivel, a Nobel Peace Prize-winner, and a former member of the National Commission on the Disappearance of Persons (Graciela Fernández Meijide), who say that allegation is slanderous. They didn’t find a single mention of Bergoglio’s name on documents or legal accusations.

On the contrary, he saved many people by hiding them in the Colegio Máximo de San Miguel (Argentina’s main Jesuit training centre). Besides, it runs against his known character – he is strong but also tender, and poor, and he continuously speaks out against social injustice in Argentina and for the need for justice, not philanthropy

...

http://www.ipsnews.net/2013/03/qa-what-matters-isnt-bergoglio-and-his-past-but-francis-and-his-future/

Chris Trotter, a left wing journalist who got taken in, nailed it here in his recent article Mea Culpa – The Pope Is Not A Fascist

In that article O’Shaughnessy levelled a number of serious accusations at the then Archbishop Jorge Bergoglio – all of which he has been forced to retract.

...

On that day, all over the world, left-wing journalists (myself included) had registered the fact that the new pope was an Argentine; that he had been born in 1936; and that he had been a senior Catholic prelate in Buenos Aires during Argentina’s “Dirty War”.

Immediately, we Googled “Bergoglio” and “Dirty War”, and – Bingo! – up popped O’Shaughnessy’s 2011 article. Twitter ensured that the story was up-and-running before the Pope had finished blessing the cheering crowds in St Peter’s Square.

...

So we kept trawling the Internet. What had Wikipedia to say about Jorge Bergoglio? Ah ha! It seems he was in involved in the Junta’s abduction and mistreatment of two Jesuit priests. Followers of “Liberation Theology”, these radical clerics had gone to work in the slums, come into contact with leftist revolutionaries, and paid the price.

Now we had more than enough! The new pope had consorted with fascists. As the Archbishop of Buenos Aires, he had not only failed to protect his flock, he hadn’t even protected members of his own Jesuit Order!

...

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/03/18/mea-culpa-the-pope-is-not-a-fascist/

Wiki has since removed that information. Ironically, they got it from the Guardian.

Then to add insult to injury:

The Guardian’s credulity is mirrored in the online circulation of incorrectly captioned photos that claim to show Bergoglio giving Communion to dictator Jorge Videla, when in fact the priest in the photo is someone else.

http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/03/15/pope-francis-bergoglio-argentina-dictatorship/

Sadly the harm is done. The Guardian's falsehoods are printed everywhere now and it's gospel truth to many that Bergoglio hid war criminals in his summer home. None of the articles based on the Guardian's article even mention any corrections or retractions.

You know that old saying that a lie will get halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on?

Where does this story come from? One man, Horacio Verbitzky, an advocacy journalist and leftist militant, who repeats the same discredited accusations any time the former Cardinal Bergoglio makes the news.

When he did so prior to the last papal conclave in 2005, John Allen, CNN's papal analyst, debunked it with one phone call to the Argentine headquarters of Amnesty International, which denounced the allegations as baseless.

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130319/NEWS/303190324

[Zoeisright]

143. Then why is he a homophobe?

Sounds UNeducated to me.

[awoke_in_2003]

149. on the new pope... he is a homophobe...

just like all the ones who preceded him.

[SunSeeker]

151. He sounds like an improvement over Ratzinger.

But that's not saying much.

[Javaman]

154. Being a former catholic..

Yes, Jesuits are for education, but that's not why pope frankie was selected.

plain and simple, he was chosen to clean house.

Jesuits have a much earned reputation of being taskmasters and take no quarter from anyone.

Notice he's from South America. A non-Italian. They wanted someone from "outside" the papal state to not be influenced directly by the other members of the immediate circle.

Put simple, he's there to put doctrine back into the clergy and to be a "cleaner".

The guy is 76 years old and won't be around for long and the Cardinals know that.

Once he does what he's been selected for, that then paves the way for either the next pope or more than likely the one after that to institute reforms.

the church works glacially slow. no reforms will be done this time around. The church is going through way to many lawsuits and controversies left in the wake of ratzo.

The last thing that will happen is for the church to be more open. They are circling the wagons, retiring priests, bishops, cardinals, etc, while getting their financial house in order and streamlining things.

I wouldn't be the least surprised if the "devils advocate" is returned.

Once the dust settles in 10, 20 or 30 years aka a new round of priests and nuns come in, then and only then will "change" no matter how small will happen.

in other words, don't hold your breath for any "startling announcements".

[nadinbrzezinski]

156. I am not.

I expect for things to be better in the cleaning house department.

I expect doctrine not to change for another reason I mentioned in another OP. the church is not growing in NA or Europe. It's growing in the economic south. I grew up in a country in the economic south. Having a pope that accepts the secular education of girls in Ghana or Belize is good...maybe condoms due to AIDS. Accept social policy more agreeable to American Catholics...not so much.

This is why I foresee a schism in the future. Growing areas of the Church demand that social policy...

[Bluenorthwest]

162. Argtentina legalized marriage equality. We have not.

So how can you frame such policy as 'agreeable to Americans' and not to South Americans? Does not even make sense. US Catholics funded and passed Prop 8. So your generalization seems either dated or just a tad on the US centric side.

[nadinbrzezinski]

166. Since Argentina is all the economic south

Wonders, never ever cease.

But you know what...you have become what you critique them for, something about pot and kettles.

So...join the rest of the bigots and gun nuts there.

Good bye....the iggy list is a god place for bigots too.

[Warren DeMontague]

158. I think the Jesuit thing is a good sign.

Not happy about some of the other stuff, or historical "Dirty War" questions.

But, yes, taking someone from that wing of the Church is, in and of itself, a positive IMHO.

[Catherina]

165. See post 164

The allegations were so serious that I dug and dug. It's pure slander.

[Bluenorthwest]

163. If you know anything about Liberation Theology, you'd know Francis opposes it as much as

he does human rights for minorities he does not like. It is in my opinion very shady dealings to claim Francis is that which he is not as part of some mitigation of his bigotry and sexism.
"A doctrinal conservative, Francis has opposed liberation theology, abortion, gay marriage and the ordination of women, standing with his predecessor in holding largely traditional views. As archbishop of Buenos Aires beginning in 1998 and a cardinal since 2001, he frequently tangled with Argentina’s governments over social issues. In 2010, for example, he castigated a government-supported law to legalize marriage and adoption by same-sex couples as “a war against God.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/14/world/europe/cardinals-elect-new-pope.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0

Why not be honest in your attempt to mitigate the bigotry and sexism of this man? He opposes liberation theology yet you and others keep trying to associate him with it as a supporter. It is not honest to do that.