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Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:26 AM

You saw their boobs? Now go fuck yourself.

That sums up how I feel about that stunt. And I think MacFarlane is brilliant, but that was a nasty bit of work and the more I've thought about it the more disgusted I am.

Amy Davidson, in The New Yorker, is a lot more eloquent:

Seth MacFarlane and the Oscars’ Hostile, Ugly, Sexist Night

Watching the Oscars last night meant sitting through a series of crudely sexist antics led by a scrubby, self-satisfied Seth MacFarlane. That would be tedious enough. But the evening’s misogyny involved a specific hostility to women in the workplace, which raises broader questions than whether the Academy can possibly get Tina Fey and Amy Poehler to host next year. It was unattractive and sour, and started with a number called “We Saw Your Boobs.”

“We Saw Your Boobs” was as a song-and-dance routine in which MacFarlane and some grinning guys named actresses in the audience and the movies in which their breasts were visible. That’s about it. What made it worse was that most of the movies mentioned, if not all (“Gia”), were pretty great—“Silkwood,” “Brokeback Mountain,” “Monster’s Ball,” “Monster,” “The Accused,” “Iris”—and not exactly teen-exploitation pictures. The women were not showing their bodies to amuse Seth MacFarlane but, rather, to do their job. Or did they just think they were doing serious work? You girls think you’re making art, the Academy, through MacFarlane, seemed to say, but all we—and the “we” was resolutely male—really see is that we got you to undress. The joke’s on you. At a moment when Sheryl Sandberg, the Facebook chief operating officer, talks about how women have to “lean in” in the workplace, Seth MacFarlane pops up from behind to say, “So we can see your boobs.”

The song was part of a larger skit whose premise was that William Shatner, as Captain Kirk, sends MacFarlane a message from the future about the dumb things he might do while hosting the Oscars. But that premise is not an excuse. Getting Charlize Theron and Naomi Watts to pre-record looks of mortification didn’t help, either. (It was hard to tell watching at home, unless you were keeping track of what each woman was wearing, that these weren’t live shots.) It just seemed like a way for MacFarlane to make fun of viewers for being prudish and not “getting it.” (See, the cool girls think that it’s funny!) We got it. It just means that there’s a whole army of producers to blame. Also, future Uhura should have a word with future Kirk.

<snip>

There are many variations on misogyny, and MacFarlane by no means confined himself to a single one. (A Buzzfeed post called “6 Sexist Things That Happened at the Oscars” was revised, in the course of the evening, to “9 Sexist Things.”) “Django Unchained,” he said, was “the story of a man fighting to get back his woman, who has been subjected to unthinkable violence. Or as Chris Brown and Rihanna call it, a date movie.” Relationships are complicated, and it can take a woman more than one attempt to leave an abuser. But if any woman who goes back is told that she has forfeited sympathy and can be written off with mockery—that the whole thing is now an amusing spectacle—then we’ll end up with more dead women. There are surely better things to joke about. Instead, we got a borderline anti-Semitic Teddy bear asking where the post-Oscars orgy would be. The answer was Jack Nicholson’s house; maybe not the same Jack Nicholson house where Roman Polanski raped a girl, but still, not funny.





Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2013/02/seth-macfarlane-and-the-oscars-hostile-ugly-sexist-night.html#ixzz2M1EA1Qap

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:35 AM

1. Sure it was a childish skit

but most men are rather childish when it comes to boobs.

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Response to Bay Boy (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:36 AM

2. lame and inaccurate excuse. It was misogynistic and

demeaning.

Try reading the New Yorker article.

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Response to Bay Boy (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:16 AM

31. Yes...yes they are...

OK, they're visual. I get that. They enjoy round, fleshy objects.

My big problem is with the word "boobs" itself.

And:

tits
titties
knockers
"the girls"
ta-tas
jugs
cantaloupes

and other demeaning names for them



They are breasts.

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Response to pipi_k (Reply #31)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:30 AM

42. I can see your dirty pillows. Everyone can.

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Response to Ian David (Reply #42)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:42 PM

231. It's alright. I didn't want to sleep tonight anyways.

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Response to Ian David (Reply #42)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:32 PM

353. SCHEDULING IAN FOR ASS KICKING

*EGREGIOUS*

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Response to pipi_k (Reply #31)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:37 PM

143. Steve Martin did a skit (I think on SNL) where he listed such names and followed with...

 

... "They should never be called any of those things. They should only be referred to as 'Hooters'."

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Response to pipi_k (Reply #31)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:43 PM

207. It wasn't the use of the word boobs that was the problem

It was the time and place. The Oscars are a place to supposedly honor artistic merit.

The lack of gender inequality in Hollywood is obvious when you look at the number of women in jobs behind the camera, or how women are paired with men old enough to be their grandfathers in roles where the characters are obviously supposed to be roughly the same age.

Having this song and all the other not funny sexism from MacFarlane really rubbed it in the faces of every woman trying to do serious artistic work. Or any work. As if to say the only thing that matters is their looks.

It would be like being at a work event where exceptional work was being honored and some clown came out and sang about all your female coworkers tits.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #207)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:10 AM

283. Yes ! Nt

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Response to Matariki (Reply #207)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:01 AM

304. Exactly. I am SOOOO tired of this shit I could scream. I did not watch the Oscars, and am so

happy I didn't. Is this what it has come to? Joking about breasts when honoring exceptional work? I fuckin' give up.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #207)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:59 PM

321. Exactly. The public demeaning of women under the cover of "jokes" is what racists do when they

insist that black people laugh at their "jokes" with them. No. Never.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #321)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:16 PM

352. Won't laugh, won't do it. Won't "lighten up."

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Response to Bay Boy (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:53 PM

157. ahhh...

The classic (classless) "boys will be boys" argument.

Why am I not surprised?

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Response to chervilant (Reply #157)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:34 PM

205. In which the "so that makes it all OK" is implied. Oy. Will they never get a clue?

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Response to Squinch (Reply #205)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:47 PM

209. Probably not in this lifetime. n/t

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Response to chervilant (Reply #209)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:06 PM

216. Sadly, reading through the rest of this thread proves your point.

It really is sad. They absolutely think this is about people not having a sense of humor. Or about people having an issue with boobs.

At least I think they really think that. It is possible that they are being astonishingly passive aggressive, they understand that they are being mysogynistic asses and are fighting for their right to continue to be mysogynistic asses.

One never knows.

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Response to Bay Boy (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:30 PM

204. So they need to grow up. You know, like people do.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:38 AM

3. You think he's brilliant?

What do you enjoy from him? The Oscars were probably the least offensive thing he's ever done.


Personally I don't find him funny, I wasn't offended I just think he's a hack. I'm all for being crude and offensive but if you're not funny you just come off looking like a prick.

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Response to ForgoTheConsequence (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:09 AM

23. This, IMO...

is the difference between someone like Seth MacFarlane and George Carlin, for example.

George Carlin could be crude and offensive on occasion (well, quite a bit, really) but at least he was witty. His jokes contained a lot of truth that people probably didn't want to admit to...and they were thought-provoking as well.

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Response to pipi_k (Reply #23)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 07:28 PM

338. Agreed, Carlin was always witty and had great insights into society.

McFarlane can't quite pull off satire because he is neither very witty nor very insightful. He just isn't that funny. He doesn't make you think .

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Response to ForgoTheConsequence (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:34 PM

354. I had never heard of him before he was named the host

and honestly, I am not impressed

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:39 AM

4. Tar and feather me, but I thought it was funny.

Because to be frank, we did see their boobs in those movies. I'm a woman, and if I did a movie where my boobs were shown and someone mentioned it later I wouldn't be upset, because it's something that I did in fact do.

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Response to Zephie (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:41 AM

6. Yeah, bare breast in a rape scene (Jody Foster) are a riot

Bare breasts in the context of the life of a tormented woman who killed herself, just a hoot.

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Response to cali (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:02 AM

15. So... why are you mad at the audience?

Shouldn't you be mad at the director of the movie?

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #15)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:08 AM

22. huh? those were excellent movies. Why the fuck would I be angry at the directors?

And I'm not mad at the audience either. duh.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #15)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:30 PM

80. The director wasn't the one going "HEE HEE HEE BOOBIES!"

But nice attempt at false equivalency, just the same.

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Response to cali (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:57 PM

112. way to miss a point and that isnt what she said

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Response to cali (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:28 PM

136. I can't believe they showed that scene while they sang and danced....oh wait....

Nice strawman though...(shame it doesn't have naked boobies though....)

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Response to Zephie (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:01 PM

115. And wasn't this stunt a commentary, at least in part...

...on Hollywood's dedication to (male) fanservice? That end of it strikes me as potentially clever.

S.O.B. ought to be made fun of, and those film makers ought to be ridiculed by name, rather than just listing actresses who've appeared topless. That part comes across as slut-shaming.

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Response to Zephie (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:09 PM

260. To have the whole of your effort reduced to a part of your

body being objectified is pathetic.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:41 AM

5. not sorry to say

 

I thought it was funny

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Response to GRENADE (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:42 AM

7. well, people who think women are just objects do think that misogynistic

dog shit is funny.

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Response to cali (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:08 AM

21. Thank you so much for telling us all how to think.

It's such a tedious job and you make it so much easier for us. I was also going to say that I thought it was funny, but you sure showed me. You totally have a sense of humor I want to emulate.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #21)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:30 AM

41. Please report for Re-Education

We're just proving that the left can be just as humor-impaired as the right.

Was it sophomoric? Sure. But that doesn't mean that it's NOT funny!

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #41)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 04:40 PM

188. I'll have to be re-re-re-educated.

The first few times didn't take.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #188)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 04:46 PM

191. After the first three times you should just give up...

Sign with an agent and declare yourself eligible for the draft.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #191)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:14 PM

262. Maybe you could both find an island with a deserted brain

and claim it.

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Response to WCLinolVir (Reply #262)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:40 PM

273. I'm sensing a Lord of the Flies sort of thing coming on...

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Response to cali (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:14 AM

27. Maybe it's the move makers themselves.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #27)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:46 PM

102. Maybe the movie makers and the actresses were not to blame for Seth's joke

I saw all those movies and the fact that breasts were shown didn't seem like something to point a dirty little finger at like a giggling pre-teen boy.

If Seth wants to say that stuff why does he have to do it while the world is watching at a time when that kind of misogyny is frowned on?

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Response to cali (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:19 PM

130. have a nice day

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:46 AM

8. It was cheap and demeaning to the professionals involved.

The choice of host was the primary reason this is the first Oscars in years that I did not watch more than 3 minutes of. I expected him to be tasteless and rude and edgy.

But for him to insult professionals who made a choice was very ugly. Worse than the jokes he has made about the Kennedys being killed. Worse than the jokes he has made about Margo Kidder's mental illness. Worse than his strange obsession with jews.

I watched Ted and there is not a single joke in it that does not rely on either shock value or the out right theft of other comedies material.

The guy is a testament to our times. Ugly and cheap and successful as fuck.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:07 AM

17. "The guy is a testament to our times. Ugly and cheap and successful as fuck."

 

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Response to HangOnKids (Reply #17)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:14 AM

29. Exactly my thoughts as well.

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Response to HangOnKids (Reply #17)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:04 AM

305. Indeed he is. nt

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:15 AM

30. And the Academy Awards Committee was FULLY AWARE OF HIS PREVIOUS WORK.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:43 AM

48. If I could K&R a comment...

Or even just your last two sentences... I would.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:18 PM

265. Wrapped up in a slimy ooze of narcissism.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:49 AM

9. In context, the skit made him "worst host in Oscar history"

If you saw the whole opening, you get that it was stupid and childish on purpose.

We also got to hear Bassey, Streisand, Adele and Zeta-jones on the show. Talented women were represented.

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Response to Beaverhausen (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:18 PM

70. Yeah, I didn't watch the skit but from what I've read

Capt. Kirk from the future is showing Seth why he will go on to become the worst host, right? I don't think that context is mentioned in the New Yorker piece, is it?

If so, the author is either being clueless or disingenuous by not giving that context, imo.

Having not seen the whole thing (and not really wanting to), I don't know if that context made the skit any better or not. However, from what little I've seen of Family Guy (I'm not a fan), that's what Seth does all the time. Someone says something and then there's an extended flashback riffing off that comment, often through a song and dance number. They do that over and over in most of the episodes I've seen.

That's one of the reasons I'm not a fan of Family Guy...that just grows tiresome for me after a while.

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Response to Beaverhausen (Reply #9)


Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:54 AM

10. Thank you for this post.

This is why we are talking about it so often. I see too many that do not even kind of get what the issue it.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:06 AM

16. You bet. It's an excellent analysis of why this was so

ugly.

And you're right, many don't seem to grasp the issue.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:56 AM

11. I didn't see it

but it sounds pretty awful. It's dismissive of those women's performances to reduce them simply to "seeing their boobs." It sounds like he was anti-Semetic and a bunch of other kinds of offensive as well.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:56 AM

12. There's a joke to be made here -

But who didn't expect that kind of shtick with Seth MacFarlane? I don't think the guy qualifies as a misogynist only because he hates and despises everybody indiscriminately.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:07 AM

19. But he didn't spread it around equally; women got by far the worst of it.

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Response to cali (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:21 AM

34. I guess that's fair -

I just don't like the humor of "everybody sucks."

Bryant

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:59 AM

13. I was not offended

I'm a woman, and I thought the Los Angeles Gay Men's chorus singing "we saw your boobs" was kinda funny.




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Response to Loryn (Reply #13)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:07 AM

20. Did you also find MacFarlane's assertation that he ISN'T a part of that chours funny?

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Response to bighart (Reply #20)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:41 AM

45. Yes, it was...

He was playing off society's inherent homophobia.

If you knew anything at all about Seth MacFarlane, it's that he's a very outspoken advocate for gay rights and for gay marriage in particular. But he's also going to joke about it. For example, MacFarlane on "Real Time" after Maher points out that MacFarlane advocates gay rights: "I like a good ass fuck as much as the next guy."

He's a comedian. He tells jokes.



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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #45)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:08 PM

165. Honestly I am not familiar with him or his work.

Don't watch much TV. I just found the whole thing sophomoric and distasteful.

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Response to bighart (Reply #165)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:46 PM

174. Sophomoric is pretty much MacFarlance's schtick...

He's not for everybody, but that's just comedy.

I could name every great comic you can think of, and there would be a host of people who would say that "so and so isn't funny." True Confession? I've never been able to get into watching "The Office," even though friends whose comedic sensibilities I always trust told me that it was freaking hilarious. Meh. Nothing.

But if you're easily offended, I can almost gaurantee that Seth MacFarlane will offend you.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #45)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:29 PM

267. I have watched Family Guy and the repeated message is that woman who are attractive

have value as being objectified. The blatant violence and misogyny that the main character directs at his daughter is not mirrored in the sexual identity of any other character, and is based on her looks. At least be honest. If it smells like a turd, and came out of an asshole, it probably is one.

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Response to WCLinolVir (Reply #267)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:41 PM

274. So you're suggesting the Peter Griffin is role model for parents?

Really?

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Response to Loryn (Reply #13)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:10 AM

24. Shame on you for not falling in line!

You're obviously one of those wimmin hating women. Wouldn't you rather be told what you can and can't find funny?

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Response to Loryn (Reply #13)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:21 PM

169. What if a chorus of straight men sang that song?

The gay rights and women's rights movements should have common ground. Unfortunately, these gay men chose the big bucks rather than moral ground.

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Response to Loryn (Reply #13)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:53 PM

236. Well then you're a horrible horrible

misogynist! Even though you're a woman... bad bad bad.



Sorry, but I don't see what the whole fuss is about. Seth McFarlane is a comedian. Not saying I find him to be particular funny all the time, but excessive political correctness is annoying. I mean he's made 9/11 jokes in Family Guy. Really, should we be surprised that he makes these jokes? They do what they do so people will talk about them.

Anyways, men getting kicked in the balls seems to be funny (well, it's not really), but people don't really scream sexism on that. I demand an inquiry!

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Response to Proles (Reply #236)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:38 PM

268. Well another false equivalency. I didn't see Seth getting kicked in the balls.

Feel free to ask why not.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:01 AM

14. K&R

Thanks for posting this.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:07 AM

18. Maybe the can even it out next year.

With a tribute to Harvey Keitel's penis.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:28 AM

36. We saw your junk

Not enough oscar nominated males show their stuff in movies...........

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Response to thelordofhell (Reply #36)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:35 AM

43. Yeah, that's why I only put Harvey Keitel.

I don't think Ron Jeremy gets invited to the Oscars.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #43)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:58 AM

58. True, but there's always Viggo Mortensen!

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Response to historylovr (Reply #58)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:06 PM

60. Yeah, that's right!

We're almost there.

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Response to historylovr (Reply #58)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:51 PM

106. Mmmmmmm, Viggo.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:10 AM

25. Saw the first part of it and then changed the channel

I thought it was about the stupidest thing I'd ever seen on TV and decided to watch a movie instead.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:10 AM

26. Seth was many things, but "scrubby" he wasn't! As for whether or not the actresses in the song

had made "art" or were exploited----funny how men are 99.9% of the time not making similar "art," now, isn't it?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:14 AM

28. Alerting ...for using the words "boobs" and "fuck" n/t

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:16 AM

32. Makes me want to see it...

I think, judging by Seth's animated shows, he's always jabbing at people who take themselves too seriously and wants to take them down a lot...and Hollywood actors and actresses take themselves WAY too seriously...they make more money than God, and they have to have their special little night to let the world shower some more praise for them.

As for her defense of Rhianna, that's fucking absurd.

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #32)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:49 AM

53. how is defending rhianna absurd?

Making light of domestic abuse is not funny in any context. I don't care how many times she goes back to this man, it is not her fault that he beat her. That whole "she asked for it for going back" is one of the reasons women don't try to get away or seek help. It's domestic abuse-shaming and it's very sad.

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Response to backtoblue (Reply #53)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:55 AM

56. She has more money than God, she can leave...

She's not some poor woman stuck in a relationship...someone so high profile is sending a bad message to women, especially young, impressionable women, that getting beaten by some thug is ok.

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #56)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:22 PM

72. Domestic abuse affects all classes.

It's more prevalent among lower income couples but it is not exclusive to them.

There is a severe amount of psychological manipulation going on in these relationships. Please look into the dynamics. It is a lot more complex than it seems.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #72)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:37 PM

87. Complex YES! But $$$$ Helps In Walking Away

 

If the woman has the money to walk away and stays she is a farking idiot. R was not expecting Brown to feed the children or pay the rent. She had the ability to walk away and toss his ass to the curb. Most of the women I have encountered in my law practice who stay are beholden to the man to make financial obligations. They stay because they have NOWHERE to go and they need the financial support. R on the other hand has EVERY option at her disposal. She stays because........ she is a farking idiot.


The cover story on Rolling Stone with her was just sad. You can see it in her eyes.....she is really dim. A 25 watt bulb. Nothing is happening behind those head-lights. Sad, maybe she should read more and stop making horrific records.

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Response to HangOnKids (Reply #87)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:44 PM

98. $$ also helps her abuser to find her. let's not forget he's got money too.

The main reason these women stay is not always for financial reasons. There are several factors that can tether an abused person to their abuser.

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Response to HangOnKids (Reply #87)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:45 PM

99. Abusers get into your head. Convince you that you deserve it.

That their violence is really a sign of love.

Feel free to insult her if you think that's helpful. What is helpful IMO is examining what drives so many women, rich and poor, and some very intelligent, to stay with and return to men who abuse them.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #99)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:25 PM

133. And movies and books sell that fantasy to women

Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey are stories about abusers who do it out of love and all the women need to do is accept it and shower them with enough love and they will change. And MILLIONS and MILLIONS of women eat these stories up.

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Response to joeglow3 (Reply #133)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:45 PM

208. How does the popularity of Fifty Shades of Grey relate to the idea that wealthy women are

not immune to domestic abuse? What is your point here?

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Response to Squinch (Reply #208)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:46 PM

277. That there is something beyond just avoiding poverty that keeps women with abusers

Personally, I think society has conditioned women that the fairy tale store is the man who is perfect, except for one flaw. She will stick with that man and endure his abuse until she ultimately cures him and they live happily ever after.

Christian Grey is a sadist. Someone who is into dominating will use pain as a form of punishment, but it is ultimately done out of love for the person and is generally viewed as a means to correct a behavior. While this is not something I am into, to each their own. A sadist, on the other hand, inflicts pain because the pain of others brings pleasure to them. Christian mentions MANY times over that he gains great pleasure in inflicting pain on Ana (and all his other women). This becomes even more disturbing once you learn he was molested as a 15 year old by an older women. While I don't think the author was smart enough to realize what she was doing, she created a textbook example of an abuse victim who in turn becomes an abuser.

Now, Ana wants to endure all this abuse because she loves him and recognizes he is perfect in every way, except for his desire to cause her physical pain for his own pleasure (at some point in Fifty Shades Darker, she is upset with herself because she thinks she loves him enough that she should not be bothered with him wanting to cause her pain for his sexual gratification).

All in all, she gets the dream life once she cures him and they get married and have a kid.

Any sane person would look at this as a disgusting normalization of abusive behavior. The real life Ana's end up, years later, running for their life in the middle of the night, with their three children in tow, to get to a shelter. The reality is that the rate that women gobble this book up, along with Twilight (sadly, a book normalizing abusive behavior for teenagers) and many others shows that there is some societal conditioning that affects more than just low income women.

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Response to joeglow3 (Reply #277)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 07:47 AM

292. You seem to be very familiar with this book which you find disgusting. Me? I have not read it.

However, I still don't see how this fictional account or your armchair psychoanalysis, which you seem to think applies to all women, relates to the question of how wealthy women are not immune to domestic abuse.

It seems as if what you are saying is that the fact that this book is popular means that all women have a secret willingness to endure pain and punishment in order to get the "dream life" where "they get married and have a kid." That we are conditioned to endure abuse to find the "happily ever after."

However, this point of view - about the meaning of a fictional story - is so astonishingly ignorant, so speciously uninformed, so belittling to anyone who would actually believe it, that I refuse to believe it is a point of view that you actually hold.

So I guess we'll have to leave it at that.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #292)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 09:56 AM

301. This is not an uncommon theme in "romance" novels

The story of the broken man who keeps tabs on his women, follows them around, and performs many other abusive behaviors who is eventually cured after the woman loves him long enough.

There was a comparison done with the main protagonist in Twilight between his behavior and signs of abuser from the National Domestic Abuse Hotline and he hit every single one. Now, take a look at the demographics of who is reading these books and going to these movies. Clearly, there is something societal going on. What it is, I do not claim to know. Maybe it is that society has beat down women's collective self esteem. Maybe society has conditioned them that they need to grab on to and keep whatever man they have because it is shameful to not have a man. Whatever it is, I do find it disturbing to think that so many people do not find this type of story repugnant.

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Response to joeglow3 (Reply #301)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:16 AM

303. There are a ton of books out there which portray men as serial killers.

I guess that means that as a society we all have a need to be serially killed.

And of course, it means that those who actually ARE killed by a serial killer were asking for it. There was something they did that made the serial killer kill them. They may even have read a book about someone who was killed by a serial killer. Which clinches it. Because reading a book about a serial killer means they secretly wanted the serial killer to kill them.

Clearly, there is something societal going on. Maybe society has beat down everyone's self esteem so they think they deserve to be serialy killed.

Like I said. This position belittles the person holding it.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #303)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:07 PM

315. Keep being obtuse.

Go to any Twilight message board and post all the documented similarities between Edward and a typical abuser and watch the adament defense and lambasting you will get. Look at all the "I love Christian Grey" groups, etc. on message boards and watch the similar abuse you get for mentioning him as a sadist.

Nice try though.

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Response to joeglow3 (Reply #315)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:12 PM

316. Back at ya.



And don't consider rethinking your philosophy about women, because after all, it is based on the definitive sources of Twilight and Fifty Shades of Gray.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #316)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:15 PM

317. Women are lining up to defend these fictional abusers

and give us excuses like "they do it out of love." This is the EXACT SAME THING a typical abuse victim does and says. Why is that?

I have never seen someone running around defending serial killers (except their court appointed attorney).

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Response to joeglow3 (Reply #317)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:18 PM

318. Dexter.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #318)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:34 PM

319. One is an individual some think is righting a wrong and the other is just a POS...

...who likes to beat the shit of women for their own sexual gratification. You are comparing apples and tires.

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Response to joeglow3 (Reply #319)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:51 PM

320. You are suggesting that the serial killer may be justified.

Really, this is too dumb. I'm out of this conversation.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #320)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 04:13 PM

323. I never said that. I said normal people are more empathetic to vigilante justice

than to dudes beating the shit out of chicks to get off sexually.

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Response to joeglow3 (Reply #323)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 04:19 PM

324. "than to dudes beating the shit out of chicks to get off sexually." todays porn

you mean.... ?

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #324)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 04:41 PM

329. Not that I watch a lot of porn, but is that common in mainstream porn?

To the tune of the porn film being one of the greatest selling films of any genre of all time?

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Response to joeglow3 (Reply #329)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 09:17 PM

349. As a woman, degreed, fairly well read, I can say I pretty much agree with your analysis.

As a former English teacher at the high school and college level, I've seen that personal reading tastes of either college educated or non-college educated, tend toward confirming readers' current emotional 'habits' and 'maps' of their inner lives, not their outer lives. Reading examples like yours don't show that anyone's anywhere near in abusive relationships -- and I'm not claiming or thinking that you say that -- but that readers can identify with women who struggle with pain and redemption through some immersion in pop fiction. The shared readings give women some base for talking about their varied lives with each other. It's not a stretch to say that all these readers are normal by DSM IV standards but, like all of us, have their share of garden variety issues and some private need to 'grapple' vicariously.

Or they just like to read. Maybe they all want to form a bigass national book club.

(Off-topic, but I'm glad to see any book titles soar. Seeing people do the right thing for the wrong reasons still gives me hope about the educability of Americans. Reading an entire book shows a sympathy for intelligence, appreciation for the printed word, narrative arcs, detail and concepts. Hell, atheist that I am, I'm even happy to see anyone read the bible at length. Anyone's extended concentration in reading is to be appreciated.)

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Response to ancianita (Reply #349)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:40 PM

355. you know what i saw with the book. they have become popular with new writers for kindles.

Last edited Thu Feb 28, 2013, 07:45 AM - Edit history (1)

not established authors, but people trying it out. all of a sudden these and other books, not the normal well established story line type books have become popular with the authors. i read tons of books. i get them free books off kindle. this book has a barely 3 star on amazon. that is a horrible rating for a book on amazon. i have not hear one person that thought the book was any good. but, it took hold and the whole nation promoted a really lousy book. and a lot of people bought it.

just like the tattoo girl. that book was a flop. they gave the books away at first. then they hyped and sold and still it was a lousy written book, but people bought into the hype.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #355)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:24 PM

356. I was suprised to see the likes of Walmart and Target cave and carry the books

These national chains regularly refused to carry "offensive" CD's and movies. Yet this poorly written, hardcore porn in print format was carried because so many people wanted it. Goes to show any business will sell any morals they claim to have if there is profit to be made.

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Response to joeglow3 (Reply #356)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:34 PM

357. but, if you watched what had happened

just like with the poorly written tattoo girl, it is all about media selling it to the people. it was in articles in the news, promoted thru cnn... a fad. swept across the nation until enough people that read it saying it was a horrible book, were heard.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #349)

Thu Feb 28, 2013, 01:44 PM

358. It really does make me sad

I agree you in that I like to see people read. However, history (all the way back to greek mythology) shows us that movies, books, etc. do influence us. Look at attendance at beaches the year after Jaws came out.

My wife likes to read a lot of genre's, including romance novels. She had the Shades trilogy and I skimmed the first two books and could not get past how (besides being incredibly awful writing) hardcore of a sadist he was and that she showed Ana "fixing" him for their happily ever after. Sadly, this is a theme I have seen waaay too many times in many other romance novels.

I am even more disturbed that Twilight was primarily geared to teenage girls and sold the same story. I can't help but strongly believe this is sub-consciously teaching young female readers this behavior is okay because it is motivated out of love and the man will eventually change if you are just patient and shower him with love and sacrifice everything in your life (family, friends, etc.).

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Response to redqueen (Reply #99)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:38 PM

144. Been There Done That

 

When I was broke and had 3 kids I stayed because I had nowhere to go. When I had money and one of these assholes came on board I kicked his ass out to sea. She is young and beautiful and RICH. Please stop blaming the man here, she is a COWARD.

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Response to HangOnKids (Reply #144)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:45 PM

276. Sick. nt

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #56)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:38 PM

88. I'm glad you feel privileged enough to cast judgement, Joeybee

Tells me pretty much everything is going okay in your neck of hte woods, and that's great!

It's actually quite difficult for many people to leave an abusive relationship because, despite what Ayn Rand has taught us, people have these things called "emotions," and they do not always work in a person's rational self-interest. This doesn't make a person a "bad example," it makes them human.

If you expect a person to work exactly how you want them to work because you see them on TV, that says a lot more about you than it does about them.

But like I said, nice to see everything is coming up roses for you.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #88)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:46 PM

153. Joeybee Was Voicing An Opinion

 

WTF does everything coming up roses have to do with this? And TV has what to do with this? You are all over the page. Ayn fucking Rand? Really?

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Response to HangOnKids (Reply #153)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:53 PM

185. It's what's starting to pass for discourse around here, I'm afraid

Try to link you opponent to something you know everyone will find distasteful, no matter how ridiculous.

Example:

You speak English. You know who else speaks English? Republicans. You know who supports Republicans? Stormfront. You a NAZI? Get out of here you NAZI bastard! You disgust me!

oh, and remember! never, ever make a mistake, or you'll be tagged for life, because as we all know, people never, ever change, and nothing feels better then righteous outrage. Even when it over something completely ridiculous or made up!

Have a good day you NAZI fuck!

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Response to HangOnKids (Reply #153)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:53 PM

269. Not hard to follow. Try a metaphor.

Joeybee was passing judgment on someone he/she knows superficially and ascribing motives and character flaws because Joey would do something different. Good for Joey. The reality is we are all different. I have not walked a mile in Joey's shoes so I will not pass judgment. I can only hope at some point Joey doesn't either. People try to heal issues in their own way. This woman has a very public life, something so few of us have had to deal with, and coping with an issue such as being beaten. I may think she has a bit of denial to think herself safe with him, but I don't have the history, only statistics.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:19 AM

33. This...

 

What made it worse was that most of the movies mentioned, if not all (“Gia”), were pretty great—“Silkwood,” “Brokeback Mountain,” “Monster’s Ball,” “Monster,” “The Accused,” “Iris”—and not exactly teen-exploitation pictures.

Did dudes get boners watching Silkwood? Monster? The Accused? If so, we are certainly more fucked up than I ever thought.

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Response to zaireeka (Reply #33)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:31 PM

176. I'm willing to bet...

...that the pause button is used. And then Holly Berry in Monster's Ball is transported in their brain to a completely different fantasy.

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Response to Bay Boy (Reply #176)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:57 PM

239. Wouldn't Swordfish be a better example

of Halle Berry's boobs? Now there was gratuitous boobage.

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Response to SwankyXomb (Reply #239)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:11 PM

245. I haven't seen either movie

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:27 AM

35. "the more I've thought about it the more disgusted I am."

Are you outraged as well?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:28 AM

37. ABC and the producers are as much to blame as McFarland

It was no surprise to them. They approved the scripts. Level the blame equally.

The Oscars are, at best, a two hour show. Maybe two and a half. If it was kept to a sane length rather than the bloated commercial-laden product it is now, we wouldn't be inundated with a bunch of lame acts and drivel. Want an example? The Super Bowl. Only one lame act there -- the halftime show. Easily avoidable. Otherwise the action is centered on the field and reported accordingly. Oscars can be the same way instead of the way-over-produced show it is now.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:29 AM

38. Does anyone remember laughter?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:30 AM

39. First Beyonce... Now Seth...

Fucking place is turning I to a commune for the boring.

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Response to trumad (Reply #39)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:17 PM

68. No shit.

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Response to trumad (Reply #39)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:51 PM

233. The boring and the perpetually outraged

RL

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Response to trumad (Reply #39)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 07:54 AM

294. I guess your born-again feminism only extends

to comments made on DU?

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #294)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 09:41 AM

297. Yeah it does actually.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:30 AM

40. I smell Olive Garden breastfeeding Pit Bulls in this thread. nt

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #40)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:22 PM

266. lol

I agree.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:39 AM

44. I didn't see it, but really, the point of breasts in movies is almost

always just to show breasts. The point is for the audience members who are attracted to women to think, "I saw her boobs."

Almost always, they add absolutely nothing to the story. Next time you see breasts in a movie, ask yourself what they add? Would the story be different if the camera angle excluded the breasts of the actress?

Breasts in movies is usually just a Playboy break.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #44)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:43 AM

46. Not in the movies he mentioned. Silkwood, The Accused, Gia

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Response to cali (Reply #46)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:46 AM

51. I have not seen most those, but I have seen Monster,

and the breasts added nothing to the story.

What did the breasts add to the story in those other movies? How would the story be altered if the camera angles blocked the breasts?

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #44)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:43 AM

47. Katherine Hepburn went a whole career without so much as a peek

If she can do it, everyone else can.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #47)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:52 AM

54. Yes, and separate beds were the Hay's Code standard as well

And Katherine Hepburn in pre-code Hollywood got to play such roles as this:

In the RKO film Christopher Strong, Katharine Hepburn plays an aviator who becomes pregnant from an affair with a married man. She commits suicide by flying her plane directly upwards until she breaks the world altitude record, at which point she takes off her oxygen mask and plummets to earth. Strong female characters often ended films as "reformed" feminists, after experiencing situations in which their progressive outlook proved faulty.



It was all just so wonderful 75 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Code_Hollywood

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Response to cali (Reply #54)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:23 PM

74. Good plan...

Take the least-known and least-characteristic of Katherine Hepburn's films and try to use it to make a point. A point, which, I might add, is utterly irrelevant to the conversation.

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Response to cali (Reply #54)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:24 PM

76. Thank you.

Audrey Hepburn.... what a nonsensical comparison.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #76)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:08 PM

118. Wrong Hepburn. nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #118)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:52 PM

234. Wrong Hepburn doesn't matter to the outraged

all that matters is the outrage itself.

RL

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #118)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:46 PM

278. Yeah, cause ***Katherine*** was a young actress when boob shots were all the rage.



Seriously:

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Response to redqueen (Reply #278)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 03:09 AM

290. Actually there was a fair amount of nudity or semi-nudity back then.

The most famous nude was Hedy Lamarr in Ecstasy, though that was a Czech film. You'd probably find more nudity in the European films though there was some nudity in the early US silents.

And a lot of the so-called 1920-1930's Pre-Code films were pretty risque, which was why the Motion Picture Production Code/Hays Code came into effect to put an end to that. An example is on YouTube somewhere with Claudette Colbert in the biblical Sign Of The Cross talking a milk bath. No full nudity but pretty damned close.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #44)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:43 AM

49. Yep. The actresses get it, too.

Everyone gets it, that is why it worked.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #44)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:10 PM

166. In college I used to watch a lot of movies on the weekends with a group of friends.

It was mostly comedy. some action movies. One of the tendencies we noticed is that from the mid 70s up until about the late 1980s nearly every movie intended for teens or older had a nude scene of some sort. Unless it was explicitly a family movie, it seemed that there was always some gratuitous scene of bare breasts. With movies from the 90s and 00s this was not the case. I think it had to do something with the advent of the VCR and Internet making it possible for people to easily view all the nudity they wanted and no longer having to rely on movies as a source.

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Response to JVS (Reply #166)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 05:43 PM

198. Interesting point. nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:46 AM

50. I'm a straight male and it even bothered me

Maybe the shots of the women in the audience were staged (as someone said), but I felt sorry for them. It felt humiliating to me.

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #50)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:23 PM

73. Theron did not look impressed when they cut to her. I thought it was childish, but no surprise,

this is the guy behind 'Family Guy' (yuck).

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Response to Mnemosyne (Reply #73)


Response to Mnemosyne (Reply #73)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:12 PM

220. You saw that she came out later in the opening and danced, right?

She was in on it. It was meant to be tasteless.

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Response to Beaverhausen (Reply #220)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:04 PM

259. No, did not know that. Damn she's good. nt

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #50)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:02 PM

344. I saw a short moment I appreciated

When they focused on Jennifer Lawrence she applauded. I'm not sure if it was her intention to join the sentiment that some actresses have recently had in taking pride for not showing their breasts. But it came off that way to me.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:48 AM

52. Why would anyone expect differently of MacFarlane?

No matter what one thinks of his artistic abilities or societal insights, he makes a living by being obnoxious and foul-mouthed. That's his 'thing'.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:52 AM

55. I didn't see the Oscars this year and I refuse to look up this skit on YouTube

so I'm making this comment solely based on what I've read.

For those in this thread that are proclaiming that the people who didn't find this skit humorous have forgotten what humor is, are just as demeaning as any misogynist. Overall, I don't think MacFarlane or his brand of humor is at all funny. That doesn't mean I have a lack of humor, it means, I find different things humorous. I don't think singing a song about the top actors in their fields showing their "boobs" is funny. Women lose out on rolls in Hollywood if they won't agree to "show it all." So yeah, they have a choice but it's not a very good one. They can work or not. Heck of a choice, huh?

To completely deny the point that women are treated differently in the Hollywood system, that we are under-represented, which is a large part of this article, and instead attack Cali for having a lack of humor means you're the one missing the point.

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Response to justiceischeap (Reply #55)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:29 PM

137. That was actually the point that McFarland was making with the song...

 

He was making fun of the segments of our population who giggle and chuckle at that sort of thing. He does stuff like that all the time, makes an outrageous joke not because the joke itself is funny but because it points out our own perverted (no pun intended) point of view.

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Response to NewYorkTaxPayer (Reply #137)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:00 PM

160. You might as well have written this excellent post in Swahili

The outrage brigade does not do nuance.

Cheers!

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Response to Vinnie From Indy (Reply #160)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:24 PM

173. The "outrage bridgade" has every right to be outraged

just as you have every right to mock them/us about our reaction to what we consider humorous. And how do you know that no one in this thread speaks Swahili? Not only have you insulted those that were bothered by the skit by referring to them as the "outrage brigade" but you've insinuated they don't speak a second language, that could indeed be Swahili.

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Response to justiceischeap (Reply #173)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:34 PM

247. Excellent....

..... example. Oh the irony.

The OP screed reminds me of something I would read on Drudge or Breitbart, IOW so skewed by a point of view as to be laughable.

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Response to Vinnie From Indy (Reply #160)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:53 PM

237. Exactly

Outrage is all that matters.

RL

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Response to justiceischeap (Reply #55)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:02 PM

257. +1000

Thank YOU!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:56 AM

57. +1. Glad I missed it. nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:00 PM

59. Sorry but all of this "sexist/mysognistic" bullshit really fries my chips..

...any time men talk about boobies, or women's bodies DOES NOT MAKE THEM SEXIST PIGS....

They were fucking jokes for fuck's sake and a vocal group of DU'ers desperately need to get the fuck over themselves before they turn this place into a complete and total fucking void where no-one can say ANYTHING for fear of pissing someone's radical agenda off.

I care deeply about equality between the sexes, my only child is a young woman, but really, you want to go to war over Seth McFarlane and the mother-fucking Oscars????


Fucking. Get. Over. It.

(A bigger issue to get riled up about would be as a result of looking at Helen Hunt. A woman of true natural beauty that now looks awful due to botox/plastic surgery because of the fear that 'Hollywood' won't hire woman over a certain age...THAT is a much bigger issue to discuss than Seth Mcfarlane's hysterical opening number..)

Alert away...

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #59)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:12 PM

64. i'm sorry but i don't find this position radical on a progressive board.

This is a mean post.

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Response to backtoblue (Reply #64)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:48 PM

154. It's an excellent post

Some need to stop whining

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #59)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:16 PM

66. Good perspective. I applaud you for going against the grain.

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #59)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:51 PM

105. Actually I think

There is a connection there.

I really don't expect anything else from Seth McFarlene, so I'm not surprised or outraged by this.

But I do see a pretty clear connection between using plastic surgery to maintain a "youthful" apparenace and turning every actress's performance into "we got to see you naked" joke. It's seems cause and effect to me.

Again, not particularly surprised, nor do I have the energy to be upset by this.

Jokes are only jokes if they're funny though. What was funny about it? I read a lot of comics, and I prefer comedies to many other genres. I don't see what made this performance "funny", much less worth defending so adamantly.

For my part, because of the connection I see above, I see the whole thing as kind of sadly morbid. Not worth my ire, but probably adding to the real issues at hand.

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #59)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:45 PM

151. Yes. Professional women should just suck it up when their craft is reduced to making jokes about

their boobs in front of their peers. Are you teaching your daughter that it's okay for a man to make jokes about her boobs at a work social event?

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #151)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:46 PM

152. Yes. She makes dick jokes all the time. Your point?

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #152)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:49 PM

155. To her coworkers? My friend, that is not only unprofessional

but she is engaging in sexual harassment.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #155)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:55 PM

158. Um, NONE of the professional women you mentioned were at work at the time....

...were they?

No. They were at a social gathering.

Next?

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #158)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:06 PM

164. It was a work event in a social setting. I've been to plenty and never has the emcee

taken to the stage to mock their co-workers private bits.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #164)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:58 PM

240. Nope. It was a social event.

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #240)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:01 PM

242. Nope. It is an award ceremony for collegues who are in the same field. The parties come

after the event. Just like less glamorous jobs.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #242)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:07 PM

244. So it was a social event then...none of the "victims" of this heinous skit

..were paid to be there, right. Typically one gets paid when one works, no?

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #164)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:49 AM

288. The private bits that I saw were 30 feet tall at the local cinema.

Not so private any more.

And for what it's worth, Helen Hunt has world class talent and craft.

As an aside, she's absolutely gorgeous.

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #158)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:54 PM

213. Right. The Oscars have nothing to do with their work. Purely social.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #151)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:41 PM

178. How much time have you spent thinking about it, and how much time do you think

any of the actresses are spending thinking about it...


Oh, they are not...They are working on other roles, or out dining at $500 a plate lunches, or taking a cruise in the porche...

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #178)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:48 PM

182. I haven't spent much time on it at all. Your point?

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #182)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:49 PM

184. my point went like a mile past you already...

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #184)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:11 PM

219. It must have been moving REALLY fast, because I didn't see it either.

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #184)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:34 PM

272. Your point was like the emperors new clothes, visible only to you.

I think the fact that you think you can qualify for someone else the value and meaning of this incident or any other says it all. Nothing. Pointless.

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Response to WCLinolVir (Reply #272)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 06:27 PM

333. Here are my sound effects for his point:

Vroooooooommmmmmm vrooooooooooommmmmm.


Is that childish of me?


Anyhow, welcome!

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #59)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:16 PM

167. must be a slow 'news' day

got to react to something.

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #59)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:18 PM

168. +100000000. Makes DU look a haven for the humorless

Bitterness and poor social skills on parade.

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #59)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:49 PM

211. The minute you grow a vagina you can tell women to "Fucking. Get. Over." sexism

Okay?

The issue is NOT about men 'talking about boobies' - it was about reducing women's value to their looks/body parts at an event that was SUPPOSED to be about honoring artistic merit.

Like presenting an 'Employee Of The Month' award to a female coworker while a clown sings about her tits. Are you incapable of grasping how insulting and undermining of the person's actual accomplishments that would be?

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Response to Matariki (Reply #211)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:52 PM

212. I hope you grow a sense of humor first...

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #212)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:55 PM

214. You're being defensive.

Instead of 'manning up' and admitting that you don't have a clue what it's like to be the target of sexism and therefore are in no position to dictate what women on DU should or should not find 'funny' vs sexist - you just persist in your boorish behavior.

So 'eyeroll' right back at you.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #214)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:03 PM

243. Project much?

Your insults have no effect on me, and I don't believe growing a vagina is necessary to understand sexism any more than you growing a pair of balls would be required for you to understand how to "man up"..

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #243)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:03 PM

258. True

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #243)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:42 PM

275. Well I'm sure you would say the same to an African American.

Or would you?? If you are a male, you do not have the same experience as women. Man up is not the same as dealing with sexism, but your simplistic analogy says how little you have thought it through.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #211)


Response to Matariki (Reply #211)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 07:54 PM

342. +10.000

Why oh why can't people get this simple concept. You explain it so simply and beautifully. I get it.

I think certain people just don't f***ing want to get it. They are purposely obtuse. It is disgusting and disheartening.

I am so sorry for the shit you have had to put up with for your very rational posts. So many people have been purposely misunderstanding them.

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #342)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 09:39 PM

351. Thanks Smirkymonkey

I can't always tell if I'm failing to explain myself clearly, if a person simply disagrees, or if someone is being deliberately obtuse. It's always reassuring when someone let's you know they've understood what you meant. Thanks.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #211)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:30 PM

346. +1000

God, I cannot tell you how sick and tired I am of men telling us to "get over it".

It makes me want to puke.

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #59)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:25 PM

271. Physician, heal thyself. WOW. Did I miss a war??

I'm glad you "care deeply about equality" because you have a daughter. If there was a litmus test, you passed.
Oh sorry, you used the word boobies.
The only people here who seem to bent out of shape are the people trying to tell others that they have no sense of humor, and we should just "fucking get over it". Have you tried decaf? Deep breathing? Because we seem to have touched a nerve here, out of proportion to the subject and views expressed. Get over what by the way? Because this false equivalency of female outrage over men talking about womens bodies, which is not the same as the subject of this post, seems to be a broad spectrum antibiotic for the ills of sexism that are uncomfortable.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:08 PM

61. Why no comment on my post #9?

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Response to Beaverhausen (Reply #61)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:09 PM

62. Because that doesn't fit in with the outrage meme that this tread is supposed to be about...

..

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Response to thelordofhell (Reply #63)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:19 PM

222. I hear Fox News has very high ratings...

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:15 PM

65. Jury results on your post


At Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:02 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

You saw their boobs? Now go fuck yourself.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022429757

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

I am being told to go and perform coitus on myself because I saw a skit on television. I believe that not only is this physically impossible it is possible one of the most stupid things I have ever seen on DU. Time to grow the fuck up.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:13 AM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Dear alerter, I don't think this this post is directed at you.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: This is a discussion board. The alerter may not like the topic and may have found the skit funny, but that doesn't mean the essay should be censored by a jury. Articles and essays from the New Yorker are legitimate sources for discussion even if the alerter is enraged by people discussing the topic.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: It's just an opening thread and not directed to any one person. I think the alerter should grow up and read the entire thread.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I think cali is talking to Seth, not to the alerting member.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Stupid, whiny alert.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

I'm glad I was on this jury, I might have missed your post otherwise. I was juror # 1

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Response to Autumn (Reply #65)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:16 PM

67. Then you missed the entire point of the alert...

...the alert was as specious as the poutrage in the OP

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #67)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:26 PM

78. I don't think the six people on that jury missed anything

I'm not going to censor a poster for posting an article from an acceptable source. IMO it was not directed to the alerter or anyone in particular. I saw it and I don't take what cali said as a CS violation. sorry

Try trash thread

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Response to Autumn (Reply #78)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:40 PM

89. Yeah, they kinda did....

...let me spell it out for you...it was a stupid alert over a stupid post...

Get it now?

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #89)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:44 PM

95. you are right, it sure was a stupid alert

I got that when I voted leave.

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #89)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:05 PM

117. Now the genius who alerted can't alert again for 24 hours.

Brilliant.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #117)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:12 PM

122. OH NOESSSS!!!!!

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #122)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:14 PM

124. Sounds like someone needs a binky.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #124)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:16 PM

126. Nah...just sick and tired of the over-reaction and near-constant man-bashing that is allowed on DU..

..nowadays...

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #126)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:17 PM

127. The power is yours.

Sign out and don't read it.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #127)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:25 PM

134. Nah, I'd prefer to stay and try and fight back against the poutrage...

..and keep folks focused on more relavant things than musical numbers on a television show..

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #134)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:30 PM

139. I missed your OPs on all those things.

Is there a link?

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #139)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:34 PM

141. Wait, they have to be OP's..I can't just respond to individual threads?

Is that the new standard? Good to know...

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #141)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:37 PM

142. I don't know.

Do you wish to be taken as a frivolous waste of time?

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #142)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:39 PM

145. Sez the person that keeps replying to my posts...

...But, to be clear, in your mind, UNLESS someone starts an OP, any post in response to an OP should be seen as a "frivolous waste of time", yes?

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #145)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:40 PM

147. I'm kicking the thread on my break.

You can always stop replying.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #147)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:42 PM

150. I can't help myself...must...have...answer...to...strawman..

Your turn!!

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #150)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 04:55 PM

194. Don’t You Have More Important Issues To Think About

http://birdofparadox.wordpress.com/derailing-for-dummies-google-cache-reconstruction/#moreimportantly



When you’re beginning to feel backed into a corner, you could do worse than to trot this one out.

As with the best of all these techniques, this step operates on several levels. First of all, it communicates to the Marginalised Person™ that you think the entire debate is trivial and below consideration, indicating you entirely disregard their feelings and emotions. Secondly, you disown responsibility for your part in the debate and anything that you’ve said that may have been discriminatory or offensive.

Finally, you reinforce your Privilege® by suggesting that it is Privileged People’s® job to set the agenda for the Marginalised Group™. After all, how could they possibly know what issues they should prioritise for themselves, they’re far too inferior and stupid! You, with your objective, ractional Privileged® perspective, on the other hand, know exactly what is most important and it is definitely not confronting you with your own bigotry and ignorance!

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #194)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:51 PM

279. LOL.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #194)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:49 AM

308. I love this. n/t

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #126)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:55 PM

280. "near-constant man-bashing"

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #67)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:48 PM

181. really? you wasted folks' time as a way to make a point?

love the abuse of the jury system. It's so cute- not to mention that you've worked yourself all afroth over this and you accuse me of "poutrage". Man, I do so love irony.

Several choice British slang words come to mind, dear.

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Response to cali (Reply #181)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:53 PM

235. Several come to mine too...wanna guess what they are?

..and trust me, the only frothy one here is you...

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #235)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 06:04 AM

291. lol, not terribly, pumpkin.

try harder, that was truly pathetic, sweetie.

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Response to cali (Reply #291)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 09:41 AM

298. Oooh...i'm crushed.....

....dissed on an anonymous interweb forum...how will I cope...??

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Response to Autumn (Reply #65)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:44 PM

179. As you surmised, the post was not directed at any DUer

though upon reading through some of the comments.....

And thanks for posting this and your vote.

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Response to cali (Reply #179)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 04:21 PM

186. Very welcome. Of course it wasn't directed at anyone, that was easy to see

I'm not sure why anyone would think that.

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Response to cali (Original post)


Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #69)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:26 PM

79. Here ya go...



Oops. Typo.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #79)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 09:46 AM

300. INFIDEL!

those are not penzey's spices!

but nice rack otherwise dude

time for my 2 cents... for whatever it's worth

this is silly. seth mcfarland specializes in juvenile humor. he is also very good with satire, which i believe was the whole point of that musical number. we need to grow up as a country.

and when i think of great actresses, the last thing i'm thinking about is there secondary sexual characteristics. mostly because i have yet to see a pair of breasts win an award for acting... for the record, my favorite actress(es) kathrine and audrey hepburn (no relation), dame maggie smith, dame judi densch, and elisabeth sladen.

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Response to EastKYLiberal (Reply #69)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:32 PM

82. Sure, because people who object are calling for McFarland to be executed.

That's what you mean by 'capital offense', right? But by all means, look up some titty images on the internet.

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Response to Sheldon Cooper (Reply #82)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:28 PM

225. 'cause that'll show US. (...sigh...)

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:19 PM

71. I thought it was funny and catchy

they shouldn't have to show their boobs

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Response to 2Design (Reply #71)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:34 PM

84. Women are often unclothed when raped

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #84)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 05:24 PM

196. not necessary to get the story point across

same as them show men genitalia more in films now - it really does not move the story forward and makes me not recommend the movie

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Response to 2Design (Reply #196)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:24 PM

201. But yet you think rape scenes were funny and catchy in that song?!

:WTF: are you serious?

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #201)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:56 PM

238. What rape scenes were they singing about?

Oh, that's right..THEY WEREN'T....

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:24 PM

77. I admit I laughed but felt bad about it later........

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:31 PM

81. Exposed breasts during rape scenes are SO FUNNY

Anyone thinking this skit was funny or not offensive is agreeing with what I just wrote: women's naked bodies doing rape scenes are fine as the butt of demeaning, sexist "jokes," and if we don't agree, then we need to lighten up and get a sense of humor.

As others have noted, the scenes shown were from first-rate tv and theatrical movies, performed by some of the best actresses who ever lived.

I would be very surprised if Theron and Watts knew about the rape scenes being shown. Both have done work for women's charities and issues.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #81)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:37 PM

86. Yeah, because that entire song was about the context in which the boobs were seen yes?

This is beyond absurd...

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #86)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:44 PM

96. Several of the scenes shown were RAPE scenes

Defending this is absurd and appalling.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #96)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:11 PM

121. Wait, they showed the rape scenes as they sang and danced?

You must have been watching a different Oscars broadcast than the one I saw...

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #121)


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #96)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:24 PM

132. Here's the thing...

The rape scenes (or any other scene involving female nudity) are gratuitious. Hollywood managed to go for years without showing female nudity and managed to create some damned fine movies. Would Casablanca have been improved by a scene with Rick and Ilsa doing the nasty, featuring multiple full-frontal shots of Ingrid Bergman? How about a shower scene in Citizen Kane? And just for the ladies, how about The Shawshank Redemption not cutting away right at the moment that Andy Dufresne is being raped in prison?

Question: If nudity is SO important in depicting those rape scenes, why didn't we see Tim Robbins' johnson?
Answer: Because our society is sexist, and so we only see women naked (until very recently).

The fact is that Hollywood has been using boobs to drive their box office from the moment the Hays Code was dropped in 1968 (and they skirted the Code as much as possible before that). Did Jane Russell become a Hollywood icon because of her acting skills? Or was it because of her rack and her willingness to wear spray-on sweaters. How about Mamie Van Doren? How about a host of current actresses who couldn't get arrested for their theatrical skills, but can make a living in Hollywood for their clothing-optional approach to their career?

It's stupid and sophomoric.

And what did MacFarlane do at the Oscars? He pointed out the obvious -- in a correspondly stupid and sophomoric manner.

I find it the pinnacle of hyprocrisy (not yours, necessarily) that Hollywood strips these actresses naked to bring in more revenues and then is shocked -- shocked and offended -- when Seth MacFarlane points out the obvious.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #96)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 04:43 PM

190. what scenes were shown?

way to make shit up.

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Response to Beaverhausen (Reply #190)


Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:33 PM

83. It seems a good choice to have not watched

I have not watched an award show of any sort since the early 70's. I think awarding entertainers is is ridiculous. Why to we pay so much for entertainers, athletics and shower them when praise and piss on those that enlighten, educate and protect?

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Response to Lebam in LA (Reply #83)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:24 PM

131. Those are fighting words here on DU. Take a look

at this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022423954

My response (#14) prompted someone to put me on Ignore. Apparently it's not ok not to be enamored by a bunch of overpaid Hollywood types engaging in an annual orgy of public self-congratulations. My comments were misinterpreted as a slam on anyone who works in that industry. Absolutely ridiculous.

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Response to LibDemAlways (Reply #131)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:30 PM

138. Guess I'll keep my opinion to myself

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Response to Lebam in LA (Reply #138)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:39 PM

146. No, it's important that all voices are heard. I'm glad

you spoke up!!

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Response to LibDemAlways (Reply #146)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:39 PM

249. Thanks

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:35 PM

85. It was also incredibly fat-shaming

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:40 PM

90. On the plus side, if this is one of the top things that DUers are outraged about,

everything in this country must be going pretty well in general, these days.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #90)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:11 PM

120. It is a nice switch from the "Obama's gonna cut my SS after he drone strikes me!" threads. nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:41 PM

91. Aw, lighten up!

If anyone knows anything about MacFarlane, they would know this was his kind of humor. I thought it was a riot. Anyone who bitches and moans about this needs to get a sense of humor. Hey, it's not like it was a secret that they were topless - and big freaking deal that they were! People need to stop being so uptight. There are other things worthy to bitch about. This definitely wasn't one of them.

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Response to Rider3 (Reply #91)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:45 PM

100. Well, you hit every single "bingo" square there, I think

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #100)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:09 PM

218. Lol! He did, didn't he!

Maybe that's what we need to do. Just respond to these things with a list of all the bingo phrases that were used in the response.

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Response to Rider3 (Reply #91)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 07:58 PM

343. Grow the fuck up.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:41 PM

92. Jesus, seriously? I am not sorry I missed it.

That is fucking disgusting.

The folks in here who are excusing it as "just comedy" and saying people need to lighten up seem to have no empathy or compassion at all.

I would rather be perceived as lacking humor, than be perceived as lacking empathy and compassion.

Thanks for posting this, cali.

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Response to MadrasT (Reply #92)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:45 PM

101. I'll stand right next to you, and proud to do so.

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Response to MadrasT (Reply #92)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:18 PM

221. I would be truly worried if I were being back slapped by those who are insisting that this crap

can't be objected to.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:44 PM

93. One last point to make here....

How hypocritical of you. You say, "nasty bit of work and the more I've thought about it the more disgusted I am." Yet the very next thing you state is to "go fuck yourself." Think about that for a moment.

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Response to Rider3 (Reply #93)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:38 PM

227. How is that hypocritical?

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Response to Squinch (Reply #227)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 04:30 PM

327. Because...

Basicaly, in the first breath, he's stating that performance was offensive. Yet, in the next breath, he tells us to go fuck ourselves? You don't see that? I thought that was loud and clear.

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Response to Rider3 (Reply #327)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 05:30 PM

331. So are you saying that you think the word fuck is offensive?

I still don't see the poster's hypocracy.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:44 PM

94. The Guardian said...

Between Seth MacFarlane and the Onion, Oscars night was a festival of misogyny. Comedy doesn't always have to have a message, but it does if it's offensive about groups who are still in the minority – otherwise it's just bullying


Yet MacFarlane was not the only criticized element of the night, which may well disappoint him, considering moral outrage appears to be his bread and butter. During the ceremony satirical newspaper the Onion tweeted, "Everyone else seems afraid to say it but that Quvenzhané Wallis is kind of a cunt, right?" For the first time ever, the Onion issued an official retraction and apology.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/26/seth-macfarlane-onion-oscars-misogyny


Disgusting. That sums up how I feel about that shit too! k&r

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Response to Little Star (Reply #94)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:50 PM

104. My God.

If you weren't aware of the full extent of the War on Women, you should be now.

(Not you, Little Star, just the general 'you'.)

This kind of 'joking' is one example of the dehumanizing propaganda that is used to enable the 'more important' issues that so many people seem to still not realize are connected to this.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #104)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:55 PM

109. i'm learning redqueen.

I cannot believe some of the tactics and blatant sexism that goes on here sometimes. I haven't posted much over the years but have recently become more involved. I feel like I'm being attacked anytime I even mention something being even slightly misogynistic.


Calling a little girl such a vulgar term is dispicable and child abuse.


thank you for all of your posts!


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Response to backtoblue (Reply #109)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:13 PM

123. Aw, thank you!

I get attacked a lot for my strong stance against letting the 'little' forms of misogyny slide. I even have people stalking my posts and seemingly putting a lot of effort into smearing me. It's fucking bizarre. Anyway posts like yours mean a lot, so thank you.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #123)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:05 PM

345. I appeciate your posts as well redqueen.

I surf a lot at work, but can't post due to the fear of being monitored. However I do appreciate your thoughtful posts.

I am a big fan and supporter - don't give up the good fight! Thank you for all your excellent posts!

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Response to redqueen (Reply #104)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:15 PM

125. And there we have it. It's so frustrating. Ugh!

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Response to redqueen (Reply #104)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:19 PM

199. And people have the fucking audicity to wonder why we seem angry?

And wonder why we aren't all sweetness and light with a more pleasant "tone"?





I wonder how people can NOT be pissed. That is what I wonder about.

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Response to MadrasT (Reply #199)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:23 PM

223. Somehow they are failing to make the connections.

Sexual harassment starts in elementary school. Street harassment is only now being pushed back against. Rape is a pandemic. Male violence against women is a pandemic.

The constant objectification of women and sexist/misogynist insults and messages.. .well they clearly couldn't be connected to that other stuff in any way, laws no.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #104)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:26 PM

224. So that tweet was part of a propaganda campaign now?

 

Seemed more like a bad joke that fell flat. Sometimes a cigar . . . and all that.

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Response to RZM (Reply #224)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:43 PM

252. Yeah, oppressive 'jokes' are just for fun.

People who tell oppressive jokes which don't criticize the oppressors aren't reinforcing or enabling oppression at all. No way.



You're reading too much into the word 'propaganda'. It's part of the myriad of messages that tell us that girls and women are less than. Using the C word about a fucking 9-year-old girl is beyond the pale, and anyone who tries to play that shit off with 'just a joke' is beyond deluded.

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Response to Little Star (Reply #94)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:58 AM

309. I just read the entire Guardian essay. Jesus. I am doubly glad I missed the Oscars; I never

watch them because I'm not a TV/movie/movie star fan. I also have never listened to MacFarlane, as far as I can remember. I just cannot think of any conceivable reason why a booby-fest joke routine would be funny at all, especially in the venue of the Oscars, where those at the top of their game are honored with awards for their proficiency. How anyone can view this as anything but a jab at women is beyond me. This is EXACTLY what men do to denigrate women -- especially as they reach the pinnacle of achievement in a field, which the Oscars supposedly represents. It's a way of dismissing and belittling female achievement.

I don't buy the idea that he was mocking the use of boobs in movies to draw in audiences. If that were truly his aim, he would have done something like mock the use of men's chests or dicks to draw in female audiences, and then related it to the boob fixation in movies. That's what Carlin would have done, and it would have made the relevant people uncomfortable. THAT'S edgy comedy. All MacFarlane did was reinforce men's booby fixations.

And whoever did the C**T tweet at the Onion, about a NINE-YEAR-OLD GIRL, should be fired and dragged through the streets. Honestly. The brutality of the human race never ceases to make me sick. No, it's not as brutal as the murder of a 14-year-old for adultery after her father rapes her, but can't anyone see that this shit is NOT FUNNY?

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Response to Nay (Reply #309)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:00 PM

310. I agree

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Response to Nay (Reply #309)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:12 PM

311. This is EXACTLY what men do to denigrate women

yes. it is. and it is clear. what would be nifty if the really clever, smart women of hollywood not tell the producers, fuck you, no boobs, this is what we are reduced to as you try and convince us it is about our art.

it is used as a weapon against us to demean, belittle, degrade is. in short... put us in our place.

no.

and then yes, yesterday along with this garbage and so much more in meta, there was also a thread about a gyno using his pen with a camera in it to take pictures on put out on the net.

that along with the 14 yr old girl, and a 9 yr old girl called the c word... a word we women are supposed to accept as ok cause the brits use it, about did me in.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #311)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:39 PM

347. +1000

The comment about the 9 year old girl was unexcusable. As were all the others.

I am so sick of this crap. It's disgusting and rude.

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #347)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 09:17 PM

350. the thing, men have no handle and control over women any other fuckin' way. the more they get in

colleges, the more confident and independent and empowered, the less control by man. the more we learn that there is not all these god like difference, that their is no reason for this superiority and men lose their status and control, the more desperate they are.

demean, belittle, humiliate, shame a woman in her sexuality is the ONLY thing they have left. and that is why we are being hit hard and fast today. so different than just a couple years ago.

a gender of desperation

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Response to Nay (Reply #309)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 06:46 PM

334. Didn't see the show either, but sadly I did go and look up the song on you tube.

I'm sorry I did.

Isn't it fascinating that all of the women he mentioned in the song were powerful women in hollywood, and all of the roles he singled out were great achievements in important roles? Gosh, whatever can he have been doing with those careful choices?

The song intentionally reduces powerful women and strong performances to boob shots. It also has the added benefit of embarassing these women of achievement a venue in which their work is judged. Seth must be very proud. Cause he put them in their place. That oughta keep them from getting too uppity.

And by the way, Naomi Watts and Charlize Theron looked like they had been slapped when their names were mentioned. They weren't the "gals who can take a joke" some posters here have portrayed. They were mortified.

And yes, he did specifically mention, in his jolly jaunt, Jodie Foster in the rape scene in The Accused and Hillary Swank in Boys Don't Cry.



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Response to Squinch (Reply #334)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 07:34 PM

339. but did you watch what happened before and after the song?

If not, then you missed the context. It was supposed to be tasteless. It was supposed to be childish and stupid. That was the whole point. In the entire skit it was part of, he was named the 'worst Oscar host in history' because of it.

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Response to Beaverhausen (Reply #339)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 07:49 PM

341. That was a handy way to work in a song that did all the things I described.

It's saying, "I know it's so naughty but...
... I'm going to reduce these serious actors to body parts."

The purpose is still to reduce the serious actors to body parts.

Say the joke was that he was named the worst oscar host in history because he took a poll of wardrobe people and they made a list of actors with the smallest dicks, and Here it is!"

And he proceeded to sing a song about the tiny dicks of Al Pacino and Robert DiNero and Leonardo DiCaprio, would that be funny? Especially if they showed any of them being made extremely uncomfortable by it?

I suspect that many here would have found it astonishingly mean and disrespectful of people of high achievement.

And no, it would not have anything to do with the use of the word "dick."

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:44 PM

97. No wonder I don't watch the Oscars

anymore. I had no idea it had become so tasteless.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:50 PM

103. Maybe it's just me wishing out loud here but....

if we as a society would stop with the constant "Boobs are naughty" mentality and GROW THE "F" UP ALREADY!!! then maybe "boob jokes" would go out of style. I know, I know.....wishful thinking....

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Response to Foxman58 (Reply #103)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:23 PM

171. Yeah, it is wishful thinking,

 

A lot of "reality" is that way.
There are those here that need all the misogyny, real or made up, as they can find, so they can play the part of the victim, as an excuse for their bullying. They don't really want the unequally to be equalized.
Actual, strong women in real life don't seem to have all the misogamist problems as some seem to here.

I haven't watched the Oscars in years. Way too much narcissism for me to stomach. Makes me wonder about those watching and how vicarious their lives are.

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Response to Foxman58 (Reply #103)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:40 PM

177. I don't think boobs are naughty...

...I think boobs are awesome!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:54 PM

107. I find McFarlane NOT funny, not brilliant, just lame

I didn't find his Com Central roast funny. I don't find his cartoons funny. He was less than funny on SNL (although the Gangnam Style skit was hilarious in spite of him).

He's just not funny.

Bake

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:55 PM

108. Seth isn't the only one to blame.

Who is in charge of the Oscars?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:56 PM

110. I am much more outraged by the "Boobs" being blown apart...

..and their owners killed by American Drones and other American Weapons,
in MY name, financed by MY Tax Dollars, and directed by Politicians I helped elect.

...and The Boobs being starved and thrown out in the street by austerity implemented by the agents of the 1% running BOTH Parties in Washington.

I just can't Get-It-Up to be outraged by what some comedian says out in Hollywood trolling for laughs from the least common denominator.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:56 PM

111. So next year they'll do one with male actors called "We Saw Your Balls"?

I'm not holding my breath...

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 12:58 PM

113. I'm a fairly nihilistic person, but a little Seth McFarlane goes a long ways...

Last edited Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:51 PM - Edit history (1)

I can enjoy only one of his cartoons at a time before I get an uneasy, somewhat self-disgusted feeling.
It's the feeling that other people tell me that they get after watching pornography or true crime accounts. I have no problems with either of those, but I find McFarlane's loathing and misanthropy a bit too much to take.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:01 PM

114. This is all getting slightly too puritanical for me

Yes, it's childish. The entire notion of it is childish. But the definition of misogynistic is literally "having or showing a hatred and distrust of women". Clearly that did not happen in the skit. Seeing women as sexual objects is not misogynistic. There is a false dicotomy drawn between two kinds of sexualization of women. One which is belittling and one which is not. That is more the issue here.

In one case you have a man, who is clearly portrayed as superior to women in every way, and the "ditzy" or "naive" women who clearly depends on the man for everything because they are so emptiheaded that they're helpless and live only to serve man.

In the other case you don't have that. You have a guy who is giggling over a woman's chest. Just the same as women and girls giggle over certain bits of male anatomy.

To say that the skit was in the first category is to give Seth MacFarlane power over women or to assume that he has such power. He doesn't. Likewise these women are strong, empowered individuals, not emtpiheaded stereotypes. Certainly there will be those who giggle right along because they see women as inferior but a vast majority of people who giggle will do so because of the word "boobies", the ridiculousness of the skit, and the childlike, puritanical notion that sex is somehow wrong or hush-hush and therefore starting at "booobs" is naughty. The fact is that it's not naughty. It's sexual. And sex is both empowering and natural.

Is Seth MacFarlane being ridiculous, of course, but is he a misogynistic bigot? No. Definitely not. He's poking fun at a social taboo.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #114)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:26 PM

135. Stop being reasonable!!! I am outraged that you are not similarly outraged!!!

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Response to Fearless (Reply #114)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:40 PM

148. outrage trolls

 

they parrot caricatures of what THEY think liberal/left wing positions are. then they try to hold liberal/left wing type people to cartoonish standards.

they have the TOS on their side and it's very effective.


just my .02

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Response to Fearless (Reply #114)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:22 PM

170. BRAVO!

Like you, I have found this thread more than a little tedious. To often on this site, we have folks who can not, or will not, recognize parody, irony or simply poking fun at social mores. Kinda reminds me of the Puritan mindset that is also common on Free Republic. No dissent shall be allowed on the core ideologies lest one be cast out. People need to grow the fuck up.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #114)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:48 PM

210. Great post

How do people so easily offended make it through the day... Must be a rough life.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:10 PM

119. The professionally and perpetually outraged are outraged. Duly noted.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #119)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:19 PM

129. ^^^^This x 10000000000

ENOUGH ALREADY!!! WE GET IT!!!! Now can we concentrate on more important shit? Like, oh, I dunno, Sequestration, Keystone XL, the young lady at UNC that is being harassed because she dared to report a rape on her abusive boyfriend...

You know, STUFF THAT MATTERS!!!!!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:18 PM

128. Here's a fact

Hollywood women are obsessed with boobs. They dress to show off as much of them as possible.

If they aren't getting enough attention, they pay to surgically enhance them to show them even more

Yes we saw your boobs because you are always sticking them in our face

I thought the song was observant. YMMV

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Response to amuse bouche (Reply #128)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:24 PM

172. OK, if Seth wanted to be observant,

he would've targeted his song towards the INDUSTRY that gives the prettier, more surgically enhanced women more market value! But NOOOOO...in a celebration of that very industry, Seth could not dare to do such a thing.

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Response to alp227 (Reply #172)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:20 PM

200. I disagree

He's not running for office. It was just one bit in a very long show

I like the song mocking the boob obsession. The women are more than willing participants. Many are just flagrant and over the top. Now they can suck it up and take the hit. Come to think of it, I didn't see any of them complaining

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:33 PM

140. Misogyny?

Misogynistic? No. Sexiest? Yes.

He's a comedian.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:41 PM

149. Yea, I'm glad that I didn't watch it

But I don't usually watch the Oscars. McFarlane is fine in small doses but too much of him and I am looking for the remote.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:53 PM

156. Those breasts didn't get on screen by accident.

It was no wardrobe malfunction.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:55 PM

159. Thought it was mildly amusing. Lighten up

MacFarlane is a comedian trying to fill 3 hours with jokes and other entertainment. The ratings went up this year, which the Oscars had desperately needed for some time. Poor Amy that she should be forced to watch such horribly offensive jokes- oh wait, she can turn the TV off.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:01 PM

161. Puerile and boring. Typical Seth MacFarlane.

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Response to jsr (Reply #161)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:05 PM

162. He ain't no Billy Crystal, that's for sure.

Seth McF is better off sticking with Family Guy.

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Response to DinahMoeHum (Reply #162)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:06 PM

175. so done with the Oscars

I almost didn't tune in when I saw Smirky Seth, and after that skit, decided I was done with the Oscars. William Shatner is the king of misogyny anyway.

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Response to DinahMoeHum (Reply #162)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:50 PM

256. I'm old enough to remember when Bob Hope and

Johnny Carson were Oscar hosts. They would both be rolling over in their graves if they saw what passes for an Oscar host today. Class has been replaced by crass. I blame the producers - who are trying so hard to appeal to the under 35s that they have no problem inflicting an unfunny crude hack on the rest of us.

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Response to cali (Original post)


Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:47 PM

180. This place whines about the dumbest stuff

Maybe we should change this boards name to Sanctimonious Undergound

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Response to SpartanDem (Reply #180)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:44 PM

254. We buried Adam Corolla earlier this week.

He made a socially insensitive remark. Talk about taking it too far.

Congress is voting on some new regulations for career comedians. Any comic caught saying anything provocative will be...well, "droned."

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 03:49 PM

183. How about Shatner's joke that McFarlane would come out in 2015 and join the Gay Men's Chorus?

This after the Gay Men's Chorus, led by McFarlane, sang The Boob Song. Was that homophobic, or just humorous. And who get's to have the last word on that? I say, for me it's my wicked sense of humor. You can have another opinion. That's alright with me.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 04:35 PM

187. Too many people say, "Nah, it's FUNNY!"

I hate it when people think I'm a prude or have no sense of humor if I don't laugh at "hilarious" skits packed full of promiscuity and tasteless jokes that sound like they were written by drunken fratboys!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 04:42 PM

189. I might have been offended

If I hadn't been bored to tears. The longest and most boring Oscar show ever, and I even DVR'd it to fast forward to the few things I could find that looked interesting.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #189)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 04:52 PM

192. Love that froggy blob of yours!

So cool!

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Response to ThatsMyBarack (Reply #192)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 04:58 PM

195. Thank you!

One person, who already hates me, insisted it could cause epileptic seizures.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 04:53 PM

193. Ever heard of gaslighting?

When your spouse shows up half an hour late to dinner without calling—that’s inconsiderate behavior. A remark intended to shut you down like, “Calm down, you’re overreacting,” after you just addressed someone else’s bad behavior, is emotional manipulation—pure and simple.

And this is the sort of emotional manipulation that feeds an epidemic in our country, an epidemic that defines women as crazy, irrational, overly sensitive, unhinged. This epidemic helps fuel the idea that women need only the slightest provocation to unleash their (crazy) emotions. It’s patently false and unfair.

I think it’s time to separate inconsiderate behavior from emotional manipulation and we need to use a word not found in our normal vocabulary.

I want to introduce a helpful term to identify these reactions: gaslighting.

Gaslighting is a term, often used by mental health professionals (I am not one), to describe manipulative behavior used to confuse people into thinking their reactions are so far off base that they’re crazy.

The term comes from the 1944 MGM film, Gaslight, starring Ingrid Bergman. Bergman’s husband in the film, played by Charles Boyer, wants to get his hands on her jewelry. He realizes he can accomplish this by having her certified as insane and hauled off to a mental institution. To pull of this task, he intentionally sets the gaslights in their home to flicker off and on, and every time Bergman’s character reacts to it, he tells her she’s just seeing things. In this setting, a gaslighter is someone who presents false information to alter the victim’s perception of him or herself.


This is a great article that pretty much defines what is going on. McFarlane did something outrageous to elicit a response. Now the response is, by mainly men, being termed as irrational, stupid, etc.

http://thecurrentconscience.com/blog/2011/09/12/a-message-to-women-from-a-man-you-are-not-%E2%80%9Ccrazy%E2%80%9D/?fb_action_ids=4631003209380&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map={%224631003209380%22%3A10150366465358210}&action_type_map={%224631003209380%22%3A%22og.likes%22}&action_ref_map=[]

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #193)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:35 PM

206. "McFarlane did something outrageous to elicit a response

Now that response is by mainly men, being termed as irrational, stupid, etc."

That says it all right there. Perfect description of the dynamic at work here.

Thanks.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #206)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:40 PM

250. You're welcome.

It's been a long time since I heard the gaslighting expression.

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #193)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:41 PM

229. ...or maybe it's just factually true that there is an over-reaction.

I could counter that accusations of "gaslighting" is a manipulative attempt to reinforce one's position (whether factually true or not) in the face of criticism of said position.

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Response to NoodleyAppendage (Reply #229)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:39 PM

248. Actually I didn't take much of a position.

I think you, however, just proved the article's point.

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #193)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:56 PM

281. Spot fucking on. nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 05:40 PM

197. Puerile and boorish . . . makes me glad I didn't watch this shit.

 

Still, one expects something better from a clever SNL host, doesn't one.

It's like "where are the movies with a strong woman lead?"

There are a few, but they are exceptions that prove the rule--very few and far between.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 07:55 PM

215. OMG, thank you.

Sick to death of people saying women/feminists need to take a "chill pill," or "get a sense of humor." I'm like, fuck you, I have a sense of humor, thank you very much. And don't tell me what I should or shouldn't be offended by. I don't do that to people; don't do it to me.

I had the same reaction to Seth's self-indulgent performance as you. I've stopped watching Family Guy because it's so often mean rather than funny.

I didn't watch the Oscars because Seth was hosting, I watched because I always watch. I'm a movie buff. I thought Seth was an ass. He wanted to stir the pot, and he did -- but he revealed just how misogynistic he is with his latest stunt. And that's what it was, a stunt. It certainly wasn't entertainment.

Sure, I had a (very) few chuckles... but mostly, it was a yawnfest peppered with insults with him as host. Not what I tuned in for.




Edited to add: Shame on the producers, too!






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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:09 PM

217. funny how so many people who didn't watch are outraged. It's about context people

The song, in context, was meant to be tasteless. That was the point.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:31 PM

226. It's called humor...you should try it sometime.

Get the F over it. If you were so offended, here's the solution...turn off the TV. No one is forcing you to watch it.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:40 PM

228. That's pretty much how I experienced it: unpleasant

DH and I only stuck with it to see clips of the films and decide which ones we might like to get on DVD later if we hadn't already seen them in the theater.

The humor was tasteless and moronic and mean-spirited.

... and I completely agree about the frozen-faced actresses -- ew.

But hey, the guys got to see their boobs.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:41 PM

230. I wasn't offended, but it was so lame. Not as lame as his "Arrogant New Englander" act, though.

Good thing he didn't do that. When he does, it's grating beyond belief. His Oscar's performance was just a run-of-the-mill annoying performance.

Seth MacFarlane is a funny writer - Family Guy is hilarious. On the other hand, his in-person performances are cringe-worthy.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:46 PM

232. I flat out quit watching Family Guy when they had Rush Limbaugh on the show

and made him out to be a "good guy." Uhm, that was just deranged.

Even before that I started to see a definite bias against women and started realizing it wasn't the show for me. But, that Limbaugh episode just sealed the deal and ended it permanently. Before that, I grimaced in the sexist scenes in the show but did get a kick out of some other parts of the show, usually where Stewie had a plan of his backfire pitifully. Those were fun, because he was such a little asshole.

If MacFarlane hadn't written in so many misogynist and pro Republican and racist jokes on the show, it might have more viewers. I have despised Seth MacFarlane ever since the Rush Limbaugh episode though. Things he has said and done since that episode have reinforced my opinion that he is a misogynist jerk. I will not watch any awards show he hosts or any shows he is on now for that reason.

The bright news is: As the Faux News era recedes and loses more and more popularity, and it does seem to be going out of style in the mainstream ever so slowly now, people who became popular by appealing to their audience will fade too. In the meantime, we'll just have to either endure them or miss award shows and other shows they are on that would have ordinarily have been good shows without them on it, sadly.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #232)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 10:00 AM

302. Wow, he portrayed Rush in a positive light? Many of his fans/defenders keep saying how smart he is,

So I'm sure they'd insist he was actually making fun of rush somehow.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:00 PM

241. So if 100% of DU agreed with you and showed the correct amount of outrage, then what?



Keeping DU pure since whenever...

RL

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #241)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:40 PM

251. You could ask that about anything posted here

What's your point?

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Response to Matariki (Reply #251)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:04 PM

270. No, really, you couldn't.

but I'm sure you think you made some kind of profound statement.



RL

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:22 PM

246. McFarlane is certainly a cheap, tasteless hack but he is merely a symptom of the all-round decay

and putrefaction that has characterized Hollywood in recent years. The fact that McFarlane is considered "talent" makes one wonder what mediocrity looks and sounds like.

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Response to entanglement (Reply #246)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:43 PM

253. +1000 n/t

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Response to entanglement (Reply #246)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 07:48 AM

293. It's Your Level Of Hyper-Outrage That's Going To Turn McFarlane Into Another Lenny Bruce. (nt)


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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:45 PM

255. General Discussion: Where Fun Goes to Die

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:11 PM

261. thank you, cali.

Fortunately I missed the opening crap and luckily I did catch the great performances of Adele, Barbara Streisand, and Shirley Bassey.

I remember when the Oscars were punctuated by spontaneous humor from the likes of Billy Crystal, who made EVERYONE laugh, and did it and nobody's expense. Now there's a real comedian. Seth is nowhere near his league.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:17 PM

264. I'm so glad I missed it.

The Oscars have been boring for the last couple of years.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:00 AM

282. But we keep hearing (mostly from guys) that it was "funny"…

Isn't misogyny a hoot?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:15 AM

284. We Saw Your Junk.

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Response to donheld (Reply #284)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:11 AM

306. HA!

Maybe if Seth had done this one also it would have inoculated him. Cuz ... HA!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:23 AM

285. It shocks me that so many on DU missed the joke when millions got it.

This was a send-up and the actresses shown scowling on camera were part of the joke. Read HuffPo. They were all prerecorded, not live in the audience. People need humor transplants. I'm a woman and I laughed out loud at the Boob Song, sung by the Gay Men's Choir, because it was perfect parody. And I don't find the word "boobs" offensive. I like mine. I only call them breasts when getting a mammogram. Who dictates what words are acceptable for body parts? There's more to it than anatomical terminology.

I also loved the sock puppet skit from Flight. Especially the socks in the dryer!

All in all, I think Seth McFarlane is mad talented, and a pretty good song and dance man. The Oscars held my attention all the way through for the first time in years.



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Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #285)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:40 AM

287. The socks tumbling in the dryer were indeed hilarious.

I also liked when he responded to apprehension over his joke about Mel Gibson (that the script to Django Unchained was based on Mel Gibson's voice mails) by replying "Oh, so you're on his side?".

Maybe MacFarlane did go too far in some places (I was uncomfortable by the reference to having trouble understanding some foreign accents, for example, and the skit with Ted), but I suppose everyone has a different threshold, and humor that doesn't take risks will be pretty bland. A lot of comics, like Sarah Silverman and Russell Peters, go a lot further.

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Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #285)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 06:26 PM

332. My thoughts exactly. The whole show was fun and entertaining. Sock puppets were GREAT!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:35 AM

286. I could see being offended. But I don't think everyone has to be offended.

In the skit, Captain Kirk warns MacFarlane that he's going to be the worst Oscars host ever, in part because he offends a lot of actresses. As an example, Kirk plays the video of the song and dance number. So it wasn't the host MacFarlane singing the song, but the imaginary MacFarlane from Kirk's alternate universe, singing a song acknowledged to be ridiculous.

Maybe you want to argue that that doesn't make it okay, as Davidson states (though she doesn't explain why). But I think that's a debatable point of view as to whether it works as satire or not. I think people could be legitimately offended by it, and I think people could be legitimately not offended, and think it's funny. That doesn't make the latter group bad people.

I understand the perspective that men have less of a right to say what is sexist than women. There is merit to that. I will say, however, that judging from comments on various blogs and social media, many people, including many women, found the song funny, including a number of the actresses mentioned in the song. So it's not necessarily just a male reaction to say that the song wasn't that egregious.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 02:27 AM

289. Oh geez. It's not like even the actresses named were bothered

I mean most were in on the joke (the annoyed "reaction" shots were pre-recorded, as many pointed out they were in many cases wearing something obviously different than they were that night.) Charlize Theron was even dancing on stage at one point during one of Seth's musical numbers and supposedly they were both "very chatty" at the after party.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 07:57 AM

295. And the "it's okay he's a liberal" excuse is absurd

As though voting Democratic every few years or insulting Republicans provides immunity or cover to say any old offensive shit they want.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:03 AM

296. Did the producers know who Serh MacFarlane is?

 

I've you have a complaint, blame them!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 09:45 AM

299. Heidi Klum, Britney Spears and Others Show Off Major Cleavage at Oscar Parties

 

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/heidi-klum-britney-spears-show-off-major-cleavage-175000295-us-weekly.html

Can't take a joke?
Then cover them up.
Or, more sensibly, see the little bit of truth in the joke and lighten the FUCK UP.

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Response to Zax2me (Reply #299)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 07:01 PM

337. Because, you know, if you don't cover up, you deserve whatever anyone says about you.

And lighten up, ladies. Yes, you played powerful roles in important movies. Yes, these may have been the artistic achievement of your lifetime, but we need to titter about how we saw your boobs. If you don't see that, you have no sense of humor.

God help us.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 11:17 AM

307. It had all the sophistication of a frat house skit.

Which should appeal to the average young guy. Call me when they do a similar number titled "I saw their ass" and it's about male actors.

As for Nicholson, the guy is a pig. There are at least two actresses homes where he no longer is invited because he behaved i'nappropriately, one of these women I know well.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:46 PM

312. McFarlane is brilliant? For a 7th grader, maybe.

George Carlin he AIN'T.

Bake

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:47 PM

313. McFarlane was pathetic when he hosted SNL.

That should have been everyone's first clue. Seth, sorry, but you suck.

Bake

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 12:53 PM

314. A revealing insight from Salon:

Johansson isn't even on MacFarlane'slist for a film she made. Instead, she made her way into the song because of a real-life invasion of privacy, where her nude photos were stolen from her phone and leaked to the Internet. That is an actual, not fictional violation, and MacFarlane played it for laughs.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #314)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 02:03 PM

322. So now we have "acceptable" Dick Humor by dickbrains. Har-de-har-har. Dicks.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #314)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 04:22 PM

325. yea. i took note, that the violation is a joke... a laugh, a giggle. we are told, her fault

that she dare to have that on her puter. those that steal it, or that giggle over it have no responsibility.

and we wonder why there is oh, say, gynocologist with cameras in their pens, or revenge sites, or random strange girl and humiliate her sites... or

how dare she use a public toilet and not KNOW, just KNOW she is being filmed, or a hotel room, or a dressing room.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #325)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 04:27 PM

326. Sigh, yes. And people here will actually blame the women, or minimize the problem,

or otherwise try to deflect blame or criticism from men.

Someone said recently that there is "non-stop man bashing" on DU. Apparently criticizing sexist and misogynist crap is interpreted by some as "bashing" men. What utter crap.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #326)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 04:36 PM

328. a decade ago we would all agree that was simply wrong. now, too many men do shit like this,

so now, the rules have changed and it is the womans fault, how can you blame the men. boys being boys. they like their boobs.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 04:45 PM

330. I have never watched the Oscars

Is it a bunch of inside jokes about a bunch of movies I have not seen?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 06:50 PM

335. I was watching the video of that song

And you could CLEARLY see how uncomfortable some of the actresses were in the audience while it was being sung. I personally thought it was a stupid, immature stunt. I wonder if William Shatner was embarrassed to have been a part of it?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 06:54 PM

336. is being cruel to someone funny?

comedy central has a new personality show on after Colbert called the jesselink offensive or something. From what I have observed it is dedicated to the proposition that modern comedy must be offensive and cruel. It's like one of those unwatchable "celebrity' roasts, except they roast innocents along with the public figures.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 07:35 PM

340. My wife thought that song was HILARIOUS (I'm not much of an Oscars watcher myself).

Should she go fuck herself too, or just Seth? Is she a sophomoric frat-boy too? I'll go let her know...

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Response to cali (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:43 PM

348. Take the examples referenced in the skit...

...and ask yourself: "how many of those nude/topless scenes were done 'for art's sake', vs. done to turn out an audience?"

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