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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPassengers describe 'sewage running down the walls' and people acting like 'savages'
Two days after a fire knocked out power to the ship and left it drifting 150 miles off the coast of Mexico, tugboats labored to drag the boat and its 4,200 weary and fed up passengers to its unscheduled final destination, Mobile, Alabama.
With few working toilets and its air-conditioning out of commission as the boat crawls along at 5 to 8 miles per hour, the Triumph has turned into a fetid nightmare that won't end for its passengers and crew until the boat docks on Thursday afternoon, according to ABC News.
“The odor is so bad it’s making them sick,” Brent Nutt, whose wife Bethany was on board, told CNN. “They’re vomiting and stuff all over the boat just from the odor. There’s feces all over the floor.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/fire-carnival-cruise-ship-strands-4-200-article-1.1261258
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eShirl
(18,490 posts)jebus
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)There's a near 100% chance people would get killed trying to evacuate.
Not something you want several thousand sick and angry lubbers trying en masse.
catbyte
(34,376 posts)I know they're doing the safest thing, but can you imagine?!?
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)I was just in the Western Bahamas and we boarded a tender vessel that was about the size of two school buses 2 miles off from an island for a shore excursion.
There was nothing difficult or dangerous about it.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Take those tender boats and put them out in the open ocean and they'll be bobbing, pitching and rolling a great deal more as will the ship.
tblue
(16,350 posts)you better believe they'd be evacuated already.
The unwashed masses can wait, I spose. Oh, I feel for them. I've been on cruises, once with Carnival. Never again.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Carnival should run these as regular theme cruises.
RudynJack
(1,044 posts)to whom would this be attractive?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)But to put it in a nutshell - no matter what it is, there's someone who digs it.
mikeytherat
(6,829 posts)
mikey_the_rat
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)...as the Carnival Cruise Line theme song.
But did you know, it is actually "Lovers Theme" by Hervé Roy, from the movie Delusions of Grandeur.
Yes, many of today's popular melodies are actually by the great masters....
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,500 posts)
clarice
(5,504 posts)
Ian David
(69,059 posts)
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)mikeytherat
(6,829 posts)mikey_the_rat
n2doc
(47,953 posts)
Dash87
(3,220 posts)
WCGreen
(45,558 posts)
"Swab that poop!"
KamaAina
(78,249 posts) 
graywarrior
(59,440 posts)lonestarnot
(77,097 posts) 
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)many years ago and decided I'd never do it again. We didn't reach our first port of call until three days after we left N.O. and after the end of the first full day I was bored. There's only so much gambling and shopping you can do. Being stuck on that ship for three days without being able to get off was bad enough but under the conditions described above? No thanks. Btw, there were people on that ship that bragged that this was their 11th or 12th cruise and I kept thinking, "Why?"
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)They all hang out and get semi wasted, a thousand dollar plus bar tab is not all that unusual at the end of the voyage.
The wife in the couple I know is very much the social butterfly and purely loves being the center of attention wherever she goes, evidently cruises are great for that sort of person. The husband can take it or leave it but keeping momma happy is a priority so he cruises when they can afford it.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)This was back when I was still single and a girlfriend of mine and I went. We're older and we got the distinct vibe that people assumed we were a couple. 
We didn't really give a shit ourselves but there were a LOT of people from Texas on that cruise and we had a hard time getting to know people. You'd have to know us but this is EXTREMELY unusual (the stories I could tell). I don't know if it was that they thought we were gay, were too old, or "those crazy Californians" but few people seemed to want to interact. The ports of call were WAY different as we made friends with the locals very quickly and had an absolute blast everywhere we went. Just when we were at the best part of the day, it would be time to get back on the ship. Ho hum.
KatyMan
(4,190 posts)Thanks.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)from my post. We see what we choose, I suppose.
KatyMan
(4,190 posts)You said people thought you and your friend were a couple and there were Texans on the ship so you had a hard time with people on the ship; how can someone not take from your post that the reason you didn't enjoy the ship was because of Texans that you perceived were judging you as gay and were not friendly? If you had a hard time getting to know people, how did you know there were a LOT of Texans on the cruise? And what does the fact that they were Texans have anything to do with it?
Why in the world does DU think there are only rednecks in Texas? Michigan, Penn, Mass, Wisconsin, Ohio--all super fundy right wing legislatures. Probably worse than Texas. Reagan and Nixon were from California. Carter is from Georgia. Ann Richards was a Texan, so is Jim Hightower. Houston is an incredibly multi-cultural city, likely more multicultural than the vast majority of cities in this country, we have a gay mayor, a huge LGBT population, lots of Obama supporters. Why alienate the one state that could turn the tide for a long time for Dems if/when it turns blue? If the Dems had spent any time or money here, we wouldn't have Ted Cruz or Cornyn or Stockman in Washington.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)I try to tell people all the time that Houston is one of the most diverse places in the country. Like you said and OPENLY gay female mayor ... and that is just the start.
Harris County, where the majority of Houston is, went for Obama in the last election.
Our elections really do not run on the R's and D's that much. It is about what you are bringing to the table.
Melissa G
(10,170 posts)is the second most diverse campus in the country after Rutgers. Houston is an incredibly diverse city. 4th largest city the country; 5th largest metro area.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)It was the first major southern university to have integrated athletics. The great
basketball player Elvin Hayes was in my class.
Melissa G
(10,170 posts)I was really impressed with it when I visited. Looked like a great campus! I was tempted to go back there for a master's.
virgogal
(10,178 posts)Where on earth did you get that information?
KatyMan
(4,190 posts)I was going to mention Scott Brown as another example of the fact that even in blue states there are enough fundies to go around, but I didn't write that, and didn't edit Mass out. My apologies to what I'm sure is a quite blue state legistature!
virgogal
(10,178 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)over it??
Feel free to ignore the thread. You are NOT free to chide the OPer over this. Grow up.
KatyMan
(4,190 posts)Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it?
I'll make sure to run my posts past you in the future to make sure I'm posting something I'm free to post.
Californians are so lame. They love having brutal police forces, they love Reagan, they're dumb enough to live in earthquake zones, they're shallow enough to elect lame brain actors as govenors...Darrell Issa--there's a great contribution to the nation...
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)KatyMan
(4,190 posts)Every day that sort of language is used on DU against Texas and Texans. It's really a shame when one is in a reddish-purple state and has to deal with idiot Rs and tea partiers every goddamn day and when we come into a place like DU for solace, support and brotherhood we get bashed and when we speak up about it we get told to shut up. I'm not claiming any civil rights violation or comparing Texas bashing here to any other grievance in the real world, but it really makes one less likely to want to participate on or donate to a site where one is constantly being denigrated simply because of where one lives. Especially when that state could be the biggest voting and electoral college engine the Democratic party has in the south/southwest.
RKP5637
(67,107 posts)the same when it's really not. Maybe years ago states could be painted alike, but not anymore. One has to look at respective areas in a state. And often the RW is so loud and nasty, and MSM often puts them front and center ... and the moderates and more liberal people/areas are often ignored.
I've also lived in some very liberal states, and have found some neighbors/areas to be ignorant asshole conservatives/areas. It's a mixed bag.
WCGreen
(45,558 posts)But they go high end and love to be doted on, they also like to drink a lot and they get a chance to let loose.
They always try to have a destination with a long lay over so they can see some stuff.
Me, I want to get a camper and drive around the US for a couple of months when Mrs WCGreen retires in seven years.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)THAT is my idea of a vacation. I'm not the pampered type and I LOVE camping. I dream of getting a camper or trailer or something as, at 57, that whole tent-pitching thing is harder now than it used to be. But if I can go up to the hills for more than 2 days, it's worth it.
OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)trailer and bought an Airstream motor home.
He's at an Airstream club rally as I type.
It got to be more than he could physically handle to hook up the trailer so he figured the motor home would be easier and he's right - he has been able to go to more rallies in the last year than he was able to in the 5 or 6 years prior.
I guess it would depend on the mountain but it probably wouldn't do so great up high in the trails but he doesn't wanna do that anyway.
He and my Grandma were in the club since the 50s. When she died a couple years ago he thought he wouldn't ever want to go again because it's no fun without her but he's finding he misses all his friends and they help him a lot so he's enjoying it
I guess my point is, do whatever you can for as long as you can! And buy an Airstream. (This is not a paid endorsement for Airstream or the Wally Byam Caravan Club International).
And to stay on topic, I wonder if Carnival will be scrapping that boat? Because I know damn well that I will never board the Carnival Triumph. We bought a cruise with our son and DiL last year but we haven't scheduled it yet - it's just a 3 day to the Bahamas since this is our first time (The kids have been on several and love it so they talked us into to trying a short one)...I am making damn sure we don't get that boat.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)Carnival will not be scrapping the Triumph, not anytime soon.
No more than they did the Splendor.
OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)now i got TWO boats to avoid!
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)If you are trying to avoid cruise ships that have had fires on them .... your list is alot longer than that.
Most of the time the fires are contained and the people onboard never know anything happened.
She just keeps on chugging along.
Splendor is back in action.
OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)I guess I'm not too worried about fire...
I'm worried about 4 days of raw sewage seeping down the walls, shit rolling downhill and urine sloshing around the halls...I don't see how they can get that stench out ever...
Plus 3000+ people vomiting at the stench of all the poop! I heard a lady on the radio this morning who talked to her daughter on the boat on the first day after the fire and it was already that bad and getting worse.
She said they were eating onion sandwiches because that's all there was...even though Carnival was telling people there was plenty of food...
Codeine
(25,586 posts)A nice long trip from one national park to the next -- perfection.
Nay
(12,051 posts)not very fun unless you like to shop, eat like a pig, drink, or gamble. The siblings liked all of that and we went along just to be with them, but.....we felt confined and bored. The stops weren't much fun, either, because hordes of people selling shit don't show you the real society.
RVing, on the other hand, takes you out into the natural world. In 2 weeks, Mr Nay retires and we are headed to FL for a month to visit relatives. We'll come back for a while, then head off on a 2-month trip out west. Next year, we cross Canada. Can hardly wait. THAT'S my kind of vacation.
WCGreen
(45,558 posts)I'm a recovering AA so I would just LOVE to spend all that time surrounded by drunken ass holes.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)
RudynJack
(1,044 posts)Loved it. The scenery was breathtaking - just stand on the deck and watch.
Dolphins, orcas, humpbacks, bald eagles, puffins... and the coast - trees, mountains, glaciers... would do it again in a minute.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)as there would be something to see other than ocean. Don't get me wrong, as a Californian I LOVE the ocean but 3 solid days of it? I was ready to look at something else.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)For example, if you go on a cruise, you get a day in Juneau, to maybe see a glacier, maybe take a flight, etc. and all those things will cost you more if they are arranged through the cruise line than if you're in town.
But if you fly up there, you can take the Alaska Ferry between smaller towns (some that don't allow cruise ships at all), and the ferry has a combination of tourists who want to see things up close, as well as locals going from town to town and some Alaska Natives.
If I could sum up whether a cruise is right for a person or not:
1) if you are excited about the stops --don't take the cruise, you won't get enough time in them.
2) if you just want to zone out and be taken care of and not think about where you're going and be separated from cell phone calls and the internet--a cruise will work for you.
And Alaska cruises, though less frequently now, are typically one way and leave you in Anchorage where you can arrange all sorts of trips and come back when you're ready. But that's really expensive.
Fly to Anchorage or Juneau and get started on your Alaska activities right away.
Also, what you can see from a cruise ship from the water, limited. From land there are tons of boat tours and trips to protected marine areas and glaciers that get you up close.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Looking forward to it, personally, though this story has me wondering.
Apparently the Caribbean lines have a reputation for being more shady.
Shibainu
(23 posts)I wish I could have taken my bride on a cruise when we married. It was not until our 25 anniversary that we first tried it My first cruise was 5 days out of Seattle. I was quite apprehensive about it but figured I could survive 5 days of anything. I fell in love with it. I drive commercially in the mid-Atlantic and finding a vacation activity that did not involve driving was wonderful. The ships in the Caribbean are, for the most part, the ships that are in other parts of the world at different times of the year.
I would like to suggest a site such as cruise critic for addressing any concerns you may have. Different cruise lines have different target demographics. Personally I have enjoyed meeting crew members and passengers from around the world.
RC
(25,592 posts)Where the nearest land is 6 miles down, for two to three weeks at a time, the topside scenery gets old real quick.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)datasuspect
(26,591 posts)lazy, or spoiled?
people traveled oceans and waterways for thousands of years without any modern conveniences, including plumbing.
why would you keep shitting and pissing in a toilet that doesn't work?
there are creative ways to dispose of human waste if you're at sea.
there's a whole goddamn ocean around you, fer christsakes!
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)datasuspect
(26,591 posts)wow.
wonder how many flights of STAIRS that is?
you would think that people could pull together and work together, if they're all in the same boat.
wow.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)Cruising attracts and older crowd--there are actually charging stations for electric chairs outside of the main dinning rooms--so without elevators and chair-lifts, many of the passengers are pretty much stuck where they were when the power failed.
A veteran of at least half-a-dozen cruises. (Alaska was far and away the best)
JHB
(37,159 posts)Ye olde "honey buckets" that could be taken to an appropriate place to dump? Find enough tubing or piping to rig up chutes to contain and transport waste from one level/location to another (and at some point, over the side)?
datasuspect
(26,591 posts)seemingly cannot work together toward the common good.
on a cruise ship at least.
is this indicative of society as a whole?
JHB
(37,159 posts)...the next time a RWNJ brings up the Superdome to disparage poor blacks, I think it's fair game to bring up this ship.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)
Myrina
(12,296 posts)Everytime something like this, or the absolute horror of - gasp! - a snowstorm, happens, I have to wonder how we have become so entirely helpless and stupid.
Really, people never survived without electricity or hot water before? Never lived without a cell phone or cable tv for a week? Never crossed an ocean, say, on a freighter with no "Lido Deck" on a month-long-immigrant's journey?
WTH??
datasuspect
(26,591 posts)too.
Dash87
(3,220 posts)Electricity.
datasuspect
(26,591 posts)it's early yet, i probably didn't say that right, but you know what i mean.
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)That'd be a federal crime. I assume they have no power for the toilet or sewage processing, so holding on board is their only option if they're not 12 miles out, not to mention that there is a maximum rate of discharge depending on speed even past 12nm.
And no, this is not an emergency -- that would be uncontrolled fire or flooding, something like that. This is a passenger comfort issue.
cherish44
(2,566 posts)If I had to be sitting around in my own filth I might as well be drunk off my ass....
KharmaTrain
(31,706 posts)I'm sure that it'll be Carnival that will end up smelling like crap in this whole thing...and a bunch lighter in the billfold. "Shit Happens"...but not to this degree. You'd think in such a huge investment for the company they'd have several back-up power systems to keep basic services going. I guess that "contingency" will be one for future cruises...in the meantime I feel for all aboard. Talk about a shakedown cruise!
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Lawyers who can identify the flag of the Bahamas flying from a ship outside of the US?
Or did you mean lawyers who can read the terms and conditions of the tickets?
KharmaTrain
(31,706 posts)...the glare of the teevee cameras and smell of a possible big pay day are sure to get some ambulence chasers to the Mobile pier. The question is what caused the engine fire...if that was some kind of maintenance slip up I'm sure there could be grounds for a civil suit. Remember, the burden of proof in civil court is virtually nil...
KoKo
(84,711 posts)BTW: Their corporation is listed in Florida...so they could be sued, but you'd think with this many incidents they'd be bankrupt by now if folks had won their cases. 
---------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Cruise_Lines
Accidents and incidents
Carnival Splendor engine room fire, ship adrift
Main article: Carnival Splendor 2010 fire
On November 8, 2010, a fire broke out in the generator room of the Carnival Splendor and the ship lost most power. The ship was adrift off the west coast of Mexico. The ship was towed to San Diego.[19]
Costa Concordia sinking
Costa Concordia capsized on reef
Main article: Costa Concordia disaster
On January 13, 2012, the Costa Concordia, operated by a Carnival subsidiary, ran aground off Isola del Giglio, Tuscany. The ship capsized and partially sank, killing 32 people.
Costa Allegra engine room fire, ship adrift
Main article: Costa Allegra 2012 fire
In March 2012, the Costa Allegra, owned by Carnival Cruise Lines' Costa Cruises subsidiary, suffered an engine room fire and went adrift in the Indian Ocean. After several days adrift without power, the ship was towed to the Seychelles island of Desroches but was unable to dock there. It was then towed to Mahe, where the passengers disembarked. No casualties were reported.[20]
Carnival Triumph engine room fire, ship adrift
Main article: Carnival Triumph 2013 engine room fire
In February 2013, the Carnival Triumph, with 3,143 passengers aboard, suffered an engine room fire, leaving the ship adrift for days in the Gulf of Mexico.[21] The ship was towed to Mobile, Alabama.[22]
KharmaTrain
(31,706 posts)Wasn't there some kind of inquiry into that disaster? This definitely is not the type of PR this industry needs right now. It has been slow to recover from the recession...
Thanks for posting...
Response to KoKo (Reply #49)
jberryhill This message was self-deleted by its author.
treestar
(82,383 posts)to a u.s. jurisdiction. Count on it.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)There is a long history of things going awry on cruise lines, and Carnival in particular.
You can be raped by one of their employees, and you aren't seeing a nickel.
treestar
(82,383 posts)They can't advertise and get customers from here without being put under the long arm. They may have disclaimers in their contracts in small print, but those have been challenged, too. Doesn't matter who the lawyer is. Big firms don't always win just because they are big firms. Yellow pages people may know the law too (and if there are deep pockets, they are motivated).
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)If your business relies on limiting liability in the process of hauling thousands of people around, you get pretty good at it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/19/world/europe/cruise-lines-use-law-and-contracts-to-limit-liability.html?_r=0
Such forceful criticism of the captain may be intended to help the company avoid liability under international agreements like the Convention on Limitation of Liability for Maritime Claims. The convention is referred to on the Web site of the International Maritime Organization as “a virtually unbreakable system of limiting liability” for the owners of ships after accidents.
That limitation on liability can be set aside in cases of egregious acts by the vessel’s owner, in the language of the convention, if “it is proved that the loss resulted from his personal act or omission, committed with the intent to cause such a loss, or recklessly and with knowledge that such loss would probably result.”
...
Cruise contracts are notoriously restrictive regarding the rights of passengers, and Costa’s 6,400-word contract is no exception. The Costa contract sharply limits the kinds of lawsuits that can be brought, where those suits can be brought and how much the company can be made to pay. All such provisions have been upheld in the courts of the United States, he said.
--------
One of the only holes ever - and I mean ever - punched in that armor is a case that went up to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in 2005 over whether the cruise line could be held liable for the rape of a passenger by an employee. And the ONLY reason the 11th Circuit remanded is because the cruise line raised a key defense too late.
Treaties trump state long arm statutes.
treestar
(82,383 posts)In these cases, and some plaintiff's attorney willing to deal with them.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)People are injured in cruise incidents every day. This is well-plowed ground, and unless the plaintiff's attorney is working on a fee-paid basis, it is hard to find an attorney who is going to take a yearlong unpaid leave to pursue this to the procedural limits the cruise line would push.
And the damage calculation gets interesting. There appear to be no physical injuries, so we are looking at things like lost wages for coming back late, and the calculable value of having to smell shit for two days and associated discomfort. If you want to get into psychological injuries, then the relevant diagnoses and treatment prescriptions needed to move forward aren't free either.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)To be clear, I'm not a fan of Carnival.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-cruise-ship-20130214,0,2424574.story
For all the passengers' grievances, they will likely find it difficult to sue the cruise operator for any damages, legal sources said. Over the years, the cruise industry has put in place a legal structure that ring-fences operators from big-money lawsuits.
Rules for seeking redress are spelled out in complex, multi-page ticket contracts that have been the subject of decades of court battles. Victims are often required to proceed with any litigation in remote jurisdictions.
----
They have a really strong record in relation to these kinds of things.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)Always some mean spirited implications embedded in your comments ....
Never liked mean .....
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I've actually won against Carnival in IP arbitration:
http://www.adrforum.com/domains/decisions/601111.htm
I totally agree that the way their entire operation is designed to screw customers by jurisdiction shopping for ship registries, their influence in the Florida legal system, and even their ability to influence international treaties on the subject is pretty damned mean spirited. As noted in the link above, I have personal experience with their underhandedness.
You can be raped aboard ship by one of their employees, and they will drop off the employee at the next port and deny, delay, and litigate until the cows come home.
Anyone with the financial means to support fee based litigation against Carnival is crushing on their own yacht, and not these floating Petri dishes of theirs.
That's an observation of reality. If it was up to me, everything would be butterflies and rainbows, I assure you.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)I thought you were referring to Rubio's response to the SOTU last night.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)Modern cruise ships are just too damned big..
Putting the equivalent of a mid sized city out to sea is a pretty dumb idea, especially when these monstrosities are in a constant state of turnaround for the next sea-city..
indie9197
(509 posts)Imagine how many elevators and hallways there are. I know I would get lost. And claustrophobic.
I always thought the Windjammer cruises looked kinda fun.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)We got to know everyone, and it was a lot of fun ..
We also went on the Southward way back in the day and it seemed too hotel-ish for my tastes...but it was free, so why not go ?
Our favorite vacation was a 14 day stay with a car in Montego Bay...right on the beach in the (old and probably torn down ages ago) Colony ..We wandered all over the island, and had time to even bond a little with the locals..
We stumbled upon Negril when it was still a sleepy little nothing place..
WolverineDG
(22,298 posts)then fly people home. Wonder what made them change that? I do know that many people cruise without a passport (this is still allowed), so they wouldn't be able to get on a plane & fly home. I know that I'd be one pissed off passenger if I was told I couldn't fly home because too many idiots chose to sail without a passport (you would not believe the arguments this causes on cruise ship forums. I think it's pretty evident that you're stupid to not have a passport if travelling internationally, but you can't explain that to idiots)
Grammy23
(5,810 posts)when I was planning them, it became very clear that while I could cruise without a passport, it was strongly advised BY THE CRUISE LINES to have one anyway. And for the very reason that happened to the people on the Triumph. Things do not always go according to plan. You could get seriously ill and have to be airlifted from a foreign port and it's much easier to arrange that when you have the proper documentation.
On the Alaskan cruise that originated in Alaska and ended in Vancouver, BC we met a passenger who was traveling with her son and daughter-in-law. She had been "told" by someone that she could save a lot of money on her travel documents by getting the shorter version of the passport. It does not have the same use as the full fledged passport but costs less and can be used in some situations. Turned out it was NOT what she needed to re-enter the U.S. after we docked in Vancouver and it put her family in a difficult situation but the cruise line (Holland America) did what it could to help them figure it out. They were supposed to take a flight to Seattle but since she didn't have the right kind of passport she had to get there by bus while her son and daughter in law flew. A major inconvenience for sure and all because she was trying to save a few dollars on her passport. AND she believed what someone told her instead of thinking about the "what ifs" and reading the FAQs on the cruise line's website which clearly advised having the regular passport.
You are right, Wolverine, sometimes you just can't explain things to people who do not want to think it all the way through to what "could" happen. They'd rather live in a fantasy land where nothing unplanned or out of the ordinary ever happens!
WolverineDG
(22,298 posts)You are blue in the face. The biggest "argument" against getting a passport is "I already give the government too much money." You just can't argue with stupidity of that level
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Not that long ago simple proof of residency sufficed. IMHO requiring passports is just another dog-and-pony show DHS security measure.
Travelman
(708 posts)By the time the tug(s) got there, the winds had blown the ship north to the point where it was closer to go to Mobile than it was to go to Mexico.
http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/crippled-carnival-cruise-ship-ties-tug-head-mobile/story?id=18463532
And I completely agree with you about the passports.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)would have provided power for the crippled ship.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)I suspect the fire damaged the distribution part of the power system; so they can probably make electricity, they just can't send it about the ship. The ships already have multiple generators like airplanes have multiple engines. It's nice to have them all, but you can keep going on one.
I say this as a former Navy electrician.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts).... on this someday, but probably never will. As an EE (mostly commo rather than power) I'd like to know how the fire affected the power distribution. If they have electrical power, why is there no running water or plumbing? Pumps should be working.
I suspect the fire in the propulsion engineering spaces also caused damage in some primary electrical distribution gear. Cruise ships are probably not built with the same amount of redundancy and damage control as warships. Too expensive. But I would hope the engineering crew would be able to do some emergency alt routing of power. I wonder what the normal electrical load is in kilowatts for a large cruise ship, and what the primary distribution voltage is?
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Even yachts down to about 35 feet have electric heads now.
And just a guess, but I imagine the controls for the main engines are electrically controlled, if you can't operate the gearshifts, throttles, steering, and propellor pitch controls, the engines are useless. Its also possible there are fuel transfer pumps, from the main tanks to day tanks, that are now inoperable. I suspect the anti-roll stabilizers are nonfunctioning as well, although the ship has to be making at least moderate speed for them to work. Since the ship appears to have communication, it probably has some navigation functions too...but they don't draw much power...there may be a small generator for that, or they mave be preserving battery power to keep those systems going.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)So unlike the toilet in your house, you can't even bucket-flush.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Electric motors, I bet.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Kind of the same way your alternator works in your car.
If the engines are inoperable, the ship is probably operating on some kind of secondary back-up generating system. It must be designed to only keep the critical functions operating.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)I had quite a chat with the Engineering Officer when I was on the Rotterdam, flagship of the Holland America Line. He told me that the main electrical generation and distribution system was separate from the propulsion engines. There are separate combined cycle gas turbine generating units for the electrical system.
The Zuiderdam, another HAL ship, has electric azipods for main propulsion. I was told that the ship has several large gas turbine electrical generating units for both ship electrical and propulsion power.
I am sure they also have some small backup systems for critical applications. I would love to see schematics and pictorials of the systems. The EO said he would have liked to give me a tour of the ship's engineering spaces, but security regulations precluded that. Too bad.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)There was a display panel that showed some vital stats, and I believe the load was fluctuating between .9 & 1.1 gigawatts when we were making 22 kts. I would suspect the voltage is 440.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)I miss the old SS Norway (France) they scrapped her.
Crepuscular
(1,057 posts)Only cruise I ever went on was on the Norway. Didn't expect to like it much but it was actually a pretty good time. Enjoyed the stops, we were able to get away from the crowds and spend a day at the beach on St. Thomas and also charter a sailboat with another couple and spent a day sailing and snorkeling in the Virgins. That ship had character and it gave you a glimpse of what a transatlantic trip would have been like during the glory days of ocean crossings.
northoftheborder
(7,572 posts)I went by myself, to get away for a much needed rest. There were people there to talk to if I wanted, but I didn't go to socialize, drink, be entertained. I made a couple of the dock stops, but stayed on board during one. I thoroughly enjoyed the WONDERFUL and bounteous food, read books, snoozed while gazing at the beautiful, vivid turquoise, clean ocean water, absorbing the cool, fresh, ocean breezes, and came home the most rested and relaxed from ANY vacation I've ever had.
But, I've been there, done that, and there are still too many wonderful places I've never seen yet.
I've heard from other travelers that Carnival, overall, is not the best cruise line.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)I've only been on two cruises, on to Alaska and one two week cruise in the Med. Both were on Holland America Line and both were great. Although I believe Carnival owns HAL, I think each line has it's own character to maintain. HAL is more old school European. Smaller ships, more amenities, nice libraries, art, etc. On our Med cruise there were only 1320 passengers on the ship and the average age was 67. I enjoyed the days at sea, the Dutch High Tea each afternoon, and liked hanging out in the library. I'm ready to do it again, though I will always choose a smaller ship with an older clientele.
Grammy23
(5,810 posts)The cruise ships DO have different age passengers and "personalities" if you want to call it that. The Carnival Ships are billed as FUN ships for a reason, although I doubt the folks on the Triumph would call it that right now! LOL In any case, they make it very clear that people drink, party and let it all hang out on most of their ships. There were a lot of young people aboard our ship, but no shortage of retirees, either. There is no gun to your ribs if you end up on one of the Carnival cruises to do anything that is not your cup of tea. I know because I was on the Elation and while plenty of people partied from the time we left the dock until we returned 5 days later (and had a bar tab that would make your eyes pop out!), there were plenty of individuals & families who did not do that. And it is possible to reach a happy medium, too. We had wine with dinner and my husband drank a few beers on deck. We went to the night time shows and comedy lounge and never touched a drop but had a great time. We were fully aware that there was a party up on another deck with a live band and plenty of folks happily doing the Cha Cha Slide. We went up to check it out and didn't see an unhappy face in the crowd. We hung out long enough to watch the fun and the FULL MOON, dance with the crowd and then retired to our cabin. Others stayed long into the night, I'm sure.
The Zaandam (Holland America) also had entertainment on board, Vegas Style shows, comedians, games (BINGO) and many other activities while we were aboard the ship. Most of the passengers were older, although there were children with their families, too. At no time were we EVER forced to do anything that we didn't want to do. We ate when we wanted, went to (or avoided) the activities that were clearly spelled out in the daily newsletter we got on our beds each morning. No matter what you prefer---lots of socialization or being a hermit or somewhere in between.....it seemed to me that the cruise ship staff and crew were there to serve us to make sure we had the cruise we wanted to take. Not what someone else thought we should do.
So a cruise can be whatever you want it to be, no matter which cruise line you choose. A disaster like what has happened on the Triumph is unfortunate and it appears to me that Carnival is doing the best they can to deal with it and compensate the passengers for their disappointment and inconvenience.
Do your homework before you select a cruise ship. They do have different ambiance and activities, but we had fun on two very different ships. The cruise line can't decide for you what will match what you want in a vacation, but they do spell out what they offer on their very detailed websites.
Floyd_Gondolli
(1,277 posts)I always roll my eyes when I read commentary from folks who have never gone on a cruise or don't know a thing about what it's like and tend to paint those that do enjoy them as pigs.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)says much about just how weak we have become when lacking modern comforts.
Two days..... two days and they were vomiting and shitting on floors?
GoneOffShore
(17,339 posts)I'd do a river cruise, through wine country, or on a lake.
But to the Bahama's or the Caribbean or on the Med or Adriatic? - No, it's way too much plastic of a plastic experience.
If I want to visit somewhere, I want to go there not stop off for a couple of hours and then go back to a floating simulacrum of the US. Complete with people who I probably wouldn't want to talk to if I was drunk.
And yes, I am a snob.
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)If you can't stand them...join them! lol
Get drunk enough and you won't even remember. lol
GoneOffShore
(17,339 posts)Toronto to Clydeside. We left Toronto on the Ulster Steam Ship Company's SS Torr Head on the tenth of December 1971 and arrived in Glasgow on Christmas morning. There were three passengers: Myself, the first Mrs GoS and some guy from Toronto.
Most of the crew were from Ulster but Captain Francis Best was a Protestant from Dublin and a real prick.
We ran out of beer half way across and there was almost a mutiny. Nothing like the north Atlantic in December.
The Torr Head was built in 1961 and in 1972 sold to Somalia and renamed Sheng Li. She was 8,196 tons which is pretty small. It only took seven minutes to walk all the way around the ship.
CitizenPatriot
(3,783 posts)small ships, you can see the shore the whole time, you're never missing anything. The tv in your room shows you the scenery you can't see from your window - the front of the boat. Lots of stops, library, art lectures, etc. Big rooms. I love not having to pack and unpack multiple times but still getting to see lots of cities and villages and participate in local customs/events.
I also took a big cruise once and it wasn't for me. To each their own.
GoneOffShore
(17,339 posts)Used to do canal cruising in England, but the boat we had maxxed out at 4 people and that was crowded.
CitizenPatriot
(3,783 posts)had planned one with some friends but it just never happened. The river cruises are fantastic except that due to the average age of the participants, the heat can be set a bit high in the boat
My last cruise the heat averaged around 80 and I was suffocating. Still, watching the shoreline from my bedroom window at night, castles lit up, steam from the river rising, was gorgeous. Many of the crew are European and can fill you in on the local customs and history.
GoneOffShore
(17,339 posts)With some friends, as you planned.
The nice thing about river and canal cruising is that you can carry bicycles on the boat (in fact, it's a good idea for doing shopping and going up "the cut" to the next lock to get it ready for the boat) so you can "get off the boat" and away from the folks you're traveling with. Nothing tests a friendship (or marriage) more than being stuck on a narrowboat canal cruiser (usually 64' long and 6'10" wide - and that's the outside measurement because the locks on the smaller canals in England are 7' wide) during a rainy week or two in June.
And you get to do your own cooking, bring your own wine, and have your own music.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)their last was a small ship on the amazon for like 3 weeks.
a/c was busted. SUCKED.
GoneOffShore
(17,339 posts)It's enough to have to spend the summer in Philadelphia with the mosquitos and the humidity.
That's why I mentioned Europe specifically. If I had to "cruise" it would be someplace temperate and within sight of land and A/C.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)The original plan was a ten hour tow to a Mexican port.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Ship goes in to a Mexican port, they have to pay port fees, and probably a pilot. Then they have to put up passengers in hotels, and feed them, until they can get them on planes (which the cruise line pays for). The ship has to go to a port with repair facilities anyway, leaving the passengers on board, wallowing in vomit and feces, saves the cruise line a hell of a lot of money.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Under international law Mexico offered them. They also threatened a top down inspection. The Mexican Navy is not that bir able and this is the third incident in Mexican Waters.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)or if they cost more or less than US. But it is my understanding the cruise was supposed to end in Mobile. If the cruise ends elsewhere, then its the cruise line's responsibility to get the passengers to Mobile. Also, to put them up until that transportation is arranged. That probably costs more than leaving them aboard during the tow to Mobile.
I can assure you this is a bottom line decision, not a heath and comfort of the passengers decision.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)But the, we need to go to port with a ship yard is just BS.
I read the Mexican press..there is a sense of frustration I got from the Admiralty. They just sound frustrated.
They might, my feeling mostly, brought this to the board of enquiry, which could cost a pretty penny.
The coast guard should do those safety reviews.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)leading to Mobile being closer.
No idea how true that is.
aristocles
(594 posts)Love Boat soon will be making another run
The Love Boat promises something for everyone
Set a course for adventure,
Your mind on a new romance.
And so on...
aristocles
(594 posts)...is fire the entire crew, from the Captain to the lowliest steward.
The cruise business is all about customer service. They have performed abysmally.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Something is either wrong with their ships or the engineering department is incompetent.
The company is cutting corners somewhere. Maybe they are not well paid, staffed, or trained to keep these ships seaworthy.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Last edited Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:25 PM - Edit history (1)
attend a pro basketball game:
HAHA---WRONG PHOTO!
Ian David
(69,059 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)
JI7
(89,248 posts)they had such issues . it's one thing if it was one person and one time. but it just seems like an overall failure. nothing in place in case of what happened with this boat.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)Thank you. I'll be here all week.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Floyd_Gondolli
(1,277 posts)That would be more like Cunard, Silversea, Azmara and Seabourne.
Also, most "rich folk" don't bother with 4 day cruises. They go on the longer trips to more exotic locales. My wife went on the Triumph in Oct. with some of her girlfriends and I think she paid around $350 for the four nights.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Floyd_Gondolli
(1,277 posts)But both provide vastly different experiences and cater to different demos.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Most of whom the cruise passengers never actually see because they are officially in a tourist bubble where no uncomfortable truths enter. Truths like the environmental wonders that are destroyed for cruise ship ports, like the fact that cruise ships are registered in countries outside the US to avoid stricter labor laws and safety regulations.
Just so fat American tourists can swoop into some third-world port, buy some expensive rum drinks, then go home none the wiser about the country they just visited.
Cruises are to travel what Jerry Springer is to educational TV.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)One in five kids goes to bed every night without food, something like one in ten kids has no home -- they live in their parent's car, or their friends couch, or the shelter. Our largest employer is Walmart, paying as close to minimum wage, part time, no benefits, as they can. Rounding out the top ten are companies like McDonalds, Target, Home Depot, all doing the same. McDonald's isn't a part time job for high school kids, it's a career for adults who can get no better. And in some places, when a job like this opens up, there are hundreds of applicants for the position.
People are fighting for entry level, minimum wage Fry Guy positions, and feeling lucky to have it. They aren't lazy, we shipped the jobs away. They have no healthcare, no safety net, no nothing, and they don't quite understand why exactly their paychecks got smaller and their taxes went up, while rich folks got a permanent tax cut.
They are not going on cruises.
The closest they will get is watching "Love Boat" reruns on TV.
Floyd_Gondolli
(1,277 posts)Response to alarimer (Reply #117)
seaglass This message was self-deleted by its author.
Floyd_Gondolli
(1,277 posts)Sounds like you could use a little R and R yourself.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)But the bottom line is that people in the US who, indeed are well off by comparison to people in the Caribbean, are not looking for cultural enrichment either.
They get a limited amount of vacation time, and want to spend a couple of hundred dollars on a fixed-price basis to unwind in a predictably comfortable environment for a couple of days.
These cruise packages are priced to suit someone who can save up and spend on a single price proposition, and know that their vacation begins when they set foot aboard, as opposed to putting together transportation, lodging and planning an itinerary in a place that might not live up to expectations or have other surprises in store.
They are not rich, and they aren't looking to solve the world's problems, they just want to have a couple of days of escape from their own frustrations.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)I can assure you that my wife and I are as blue collar as they come; and we are fresh off a cruise back in December.
In fact, it was the first real vacation that my wife and I have taken since we've been together for the past 9 years.
We are hardly the richies you claim everyone who takes a cruise are.
Response to Earth_First (Reply #102)
Demo_Chris This message was self-deleted by its author.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #112)
nadinbrzezinski This message was self-deleted by its author.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Is that they are marketed to people for whom spending, say $600 for a couple of days is the best return they can get for a one week vacation, is a worthwhile prospect. But they'll save for two years to get that $600 set aside.
It's a reasonable proposition with a predictable cost aimed at a solid middle market.
Absolutely, being able to do something like that is, in relative economic terms in the US, a blessing. But the limited availability of vacation available to US employees, and the fact that coming up with something on the order of a couple of hundred dollars is a challenge for so many, is more of an indictment of the disappearing middle class than a suggestion that people who take these cruise packages are particularly "rich".
MountainMama
(237 posts)If you can afford this (and they run a lot of specials), it is an amazing experience. No shopping, no gambling, exceptional service and neat land activities.
Floyd_Gondolli
(1,277 posts)On one of the bigger ships, but I think we're getting to hte point where we'd like to try something like this. They are rather high though, but as you said, it's a very unique experience.
kairos12
(12,858 posts)
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)sewage, savages.
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)
SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)Orrex
(63,207 posts)Except that the bus was more crowded.
Dorian Gray
(13,493 posts)Those poor customers. This is a PR nightmare for Carnivale. They should have stepped up and sent another boat for those poor people.
tavernier
(12,383 posts)I've been to London twice, Paris three times, Russia and the Baltics, all with a travel tour group. Inexpensive way to see the world and you meet the nicest ppl. Go ahead tours is a jewel!
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)will be having its annual cruise October 5 - 12, 2013?
Event Highlights...
Some very important notes when considering booking this cruise.
This is not your typical cruise. Guests of The Nation will enjoy informative seminars and extensive interaction with our guest speakers; numerous social events; dining with like minded fellow cruisers as well as guest speakers; and a wonderful sense of sharing and camaraderie.
The cruise will include cocktail receptions, dinners together, and seminar sessions.
Speakers include - Katrina vanden Heuvel, Victor Navasky, Naomi Klein and David Zirin
for further info:
http://www.nationcruise.com/index.html
Now does post constitute spam?
I have no connection with the Nation or this cruise, have never been on a Nation cruise and highly doubt that I will be on this one. Although a cruise for political junkes does sound kind of fun -- well sort of.
Hard Assets
(274 posts)Hmmm...
Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)
Matariki
(18,775 posts)
bluedigger
(17,086 posts)He was one of three soldiers that didn't get seasick and therefore spent the whole trip cleaning up.
