LAPD are domestic terrorists.

[Fire Walk With Me]

LAPD chief Beck yesterday called Chris Dorner a "domestic terrorist". What then does this look like to you?

Edit: 2008

"Officers beat a homeless man for eating sunflower seeds on San Julian Street as onlookers plead for them to stop. Man is subsequently taken away in an ambulance."

(San Julian is on LA's Skid Row. Video by LA CAN, or Community Action Network. If you want more LAPD domestic terrorism stories, I have a few other items from the last year currently floating in GD.)

[slackmaster]

1. It looks like another lame cop-hating thread to me

[Fire Walk With Me]

3. I will personally escort you to Skid Row to say that to this man, who was beaten by

multiple officers. I will let you listen to those who have suffered similarly.

I do note that the video is much longer than the time it took you to post your reply. You have not actually watched the video. Shame.

Video posted:

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 07:30 AM

You replied:

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 07:30 AM

[slackmaster]

6. The video is lacking in context. What happened for the several minutes before it starts?

I'm not going to accept your claim that all the man was doing was eating sunflower seeds.

I'm also not going to assume that the cops are innocent of abusing the man.

There's just not enough information here to see what happened. Do you have a link to a more complete video, or an actual news account of the incident?

Without context, it appears that you are simply throwing bombs.

[Fire Walk With Me]

10. Again: I've done copwatch on Skid Row, as have those who posted the video. Have you?

And you justify that many cops descending upon a man who wishes to not be beaten, who is then beaten and taken away in an ambulance? Is there any reason which could justify such a swarm, such brutality? What is your opinion of what was done to Rodney King?

You say the video is out of context, yet you gave a dismissive opinionated response without having watched it. ???

[slackmaster]

14. I don't know who you are. I don't know the people who made the video.

I don't know what precipitated the cops treating the man as they did.

[Fire Walk With Me]

17. I know the people who recorded the video. LAPD do things like that on a whim

to the homeless, to activists, anyone. Which is my point. That is why there is copwatch. That is why Beck calling Dorner a domestic terrorist is the ultimate hipocrisy.

And you made a dismissive, opinionated reply without actually watching the video. Please stop posting.

[slackmaster]

20. What is the date the video was taken? What's the name of the man who was beaten? What...

...hospital was he taken to?

What were the nature and extent of his injuries?

Has he been released from the hospital?

Where is he now? Is he in custody? In the psychiatric lockup? Where?

Has he been charged with any crimes?

Are the police officers who did this being investigated? What are their names? Are they still on duty?

What are the names of people who witnessed the event?

[Fire Walk With Me]

25. Dictionary flaming? Nice. If 16 cops beating a single black homeless man doesn't give you pause

nothing will. And I note that you firmly place the focus upon the victim and not the aggressors. Why not go to the youtube page of LA CAN, who recorded and posted the video. Contact them and ask your questions. If they have the time to explain the truth to someone determined to not see what is directly in front of them. Be certain to let them know the opinion you posted without actually having watched the video.

Why not check my other LAPD threads in GD? There's plenty of victim blaming ready.

[slackmaster]

53. You can't answer any of my questions.

[Fire Walk With Me]

59. You wouldn't even watch the video. You don't deserve even this reply. You want answers,

go to the youtube page of the videographer (but again, tell them the opinion you posted before watching the video). They need a good laugh.

[slackmaster]

62. You asked "What then does this look like to you?" and I gave you an initial impression

I stand by my comment.

I think it's great that people are trying to hold the LAPD accountable. You're not doing a very good job of it by presenting the middle of a story. What happened at the beginning? How about the end?

Who is LA CAN? Could you at least supply a link to their YT page?

[Fire Walk With Me]

73. I'm sure they'd LOVE to hear from you.

[cleanhippie]

81. ROFL's? Are you aware that the only thing accomplished here was to undermine your own OP?

Is that what you are ROFL-ing at?

[Fire Walk With Me]

83. Please read my reply to his first post. That poster has zero credibility in this thread. n/t

[cleanhippie]

86. Great. So what. This is not about his credibility, it's about the credibility of that video.

How are you making the claims you made regarding what is actually taking place here?

Your video opens with two cops holding and searching a person on the sidewalk, followed my more cops arriving and yes, using some excessive force (from what we have been shown here) to place him in custody.

Your claim of "...for only eating sunflower seeds on the sidewalk" is not supported by this video, nor is ANYTHING you claim.

When, where was this taken? Where is the WHOLE video? Where can one see it in it's entirety so that proper context can be given and the viewer has a better idea of what is actually happening here?





Kindly note: I am not saying you are wrong. I am not saying the cops are right. I am not saying anything. I am asking you a question.

And if questions elicit any response that is not an answer to those questions, credibility will diminish.

[Fire Walk With Me]

89. It is from the LA Community Action Network, or LA CAN. Right-click to back-link to their youtube

page for more video of LAPD malfeasance, as what is shown is not an isolated incident :/

I've personally seen LAPD hassle the homeless for no reason other than to do so. I live here. I've done copwatch on Skid Row and I trust the LA CAN personnel. And the text accompanying the video is theirs, not mine. The homeless are criminalized in this city, as are the poor and people of color. I've seen the homeless get hassled (and one time cops left when they saw me video'ing them doing so; the man they were shaking down was grateful and called me a blessing, IIRC) but not beaten; I have however been assaulted by LAPD as have my fellow Occupy activists. I've done court support and seen cops happy to show up to get peaceful people held to what amounts to nuisance arrests and made-up felony charges designed to discourage and frighten (which is part of the FBI's definition of terrorism!).

What is actually happening there? Exactly what appears to be happening. I'm really sorry that is so difficult for some to parse. Some things are exactly what they appear to be.

[cleanhippie]

94. Again, you respond with obfuscation to the questions being asked, seemingly because they cannot be

answered.

I don't need to see OTHER videos. Your experience with LAPD and it's malfeasance has no bearing ON THIS VIDEO and the claims you made regarding it's context.

In a nutshell, you are telling all of us to "trust you. You know what you are talking about." I don't doubt you. Thank you for being on the front line in exposing police brutality.

But guess what? That is not good enough. This video has been edited to remove the context showing what is actually taking place. Why are you unable to understand that casual viewers are not given any valid context for this video, except for your own comments, and many require more than just the opinion of an anonymous poster on the internet?

[Fire Walk With Me]

103. If you'd just spent the time you've used on that post in contacting LA CAN to ask the questions you

want answered, you would have possibly had an answer by now. THIS is why I'm not entertaining your posts. You want to argue, which is clear, because you refuse to accept you've twice been given the contact info to those who can answer all of your questions regarding the video. You want those specific answers, great. I've given you the source. Please to enjoy. But I don't know if you would believe them either. Good luck, I've given you everything you've requested.

[cleanhippie]

110. Thank you for showing all reading this thread that you care little about context and reality...

and more about your agenda.

While you may be 100% correct in all you say, your failure to provide ANYTHING resembling context and your failure to validate the concerns that any casual viewer may have regarding the video you posted and the comments you made.

Good luck with your quest.

[Fire Walk With Me]

120. My agenda is to present a clear depiction of police brutality. If you cannot get that from what is

presented, it is clearly not my fault. Your determined refusal to accept what is clear and plain is merely a distraction (which is YOUR agenda) from real and clear brutality and unfairness. Many, many "casual viewers" in this thread can see this video for exactly what it is. Good luck in life if you cannot. For the context and reality is LA downtown, where as I've said over and over, the poor and homeless and people of color are criminalized and are daily harassed, where LAPD engage in criminal behavior with no accountability, where all eyes must be turned so that this may CHANGE.

You obviously care not one whit about these victims. Good luck with THAT.

[cleanhippie]

122. Then you have FAILED to "present a clear depiction of police brutality."

Good luck. You are doing good work. Your tactics need some improvement, IMO.

[Fire Walk With Me]

126. If you want to get your LAPD brutality porn, here are links to my current GD threads:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2358171

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022351807

Not specifically LAPD, but their brothers in crime:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022340548


They are domestic terrorists, by LAPD chief Beck's own definition.

[cleanhippie]

127. Ok, thanks.

[slackmaster]

98. As it turns out, the video has been on the Web for nearly seven years.

I thought it looked familiar.

It was posted on DU2 back in 2008.

[Bennyboy]

118. I am sure that NOTHING like that goes on today...

That is the MO of the LA terror department. My kids been part of it. recently.

And really your obvious cop apologist stance is obvious. So is your desire to argue rather than do any research for yourself.

[donheld]

151. I'e seen it too. In Denver

The only undermining you did was those too stubborn to understand the vileness of many big city cops.

[EOTE]

28. You made the comment before even WATCHING the video.

Now you want answers to questions? You made up your mind before even watching, no one is buying your bullshit.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

31. x2

[Tempest]

33. Slackmaster has a gun fetish

You can't reason with him.

Once you get the upper hand, he'll move the goal posts or will throw out unrelated issues.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

56. Apparently it's not just guns with him

He seems to have a soft spot for authoritarian, abusive police officers. He also displays a basic ignorance of the history of the LAPD.

[frylock]

69. he's a conservative troll fucker..

the next time that asshole espouses anything resembling a liberal viewpoint will be the first time.

[Comrade Grumpy]

106. DELETE--Wrong place.

[Rex]

131. Wow!

Don't hold back!

[frylock]

137. believe me when i tell you that i was

[BainsBane]

139. I know how you feel

Exactly.

[Rex]

146. I do.

I can only imagine.

[RetroLounge]

147. +1000000000000000

RL

[slackmaster]

51. The first 10 seconds were enough to make it obvious that it doesn't support the OP's narrative

I've watched it twice now.

[EOTE]

57. You didn't watch a damned thing before making your comment.

If you're really trying to say that you watched a full 10 seconds before commenting, that's pretty pathetic. And even if you had (you didn't), you'd still be unequipped to make that comment. Funny how these pieces of shit cops always get a pass from you. You couldn't care less about the rampancy of police brutality in this country.

[slackmaster]

60. So what? This is an open discussion. The OP solicited opinions, and I gave my initial reaction.

I stand by my initial comment.

[EOTE]

64. You gave your initial reaction before watching the video.

Which suits your motives quite nicely. You're welcome to have your opinion just as we're welcome to note how your opinion is wholly ignorant and based upon not having actually watched the video in question. Like quite a few of your comments on matters such as these, it was formed without even attempting to educate yourself. That's just sad.

[slackmaster]

65. Bullshit

[EOTE]

66. You already admitted to it. You're not fooling anyone.

Then you come back and say you watched 10 seconds of it before making your comment. I know it's human nature to assume that everyone is as intelligent as you, but I can guarantee you that none of us are as stupid as you think we are.

[Fire Walk With Me]

71. I solicited opinions, but opinions based upon actually having watched the video.

You are embarrassing yourself. Quit while you are ahead.

[cleanhippie]

88. I wacthed the entire thing.

I have the same questions after watching it start to finish.

Here is what I have asked the OP. Twice. With no response.

How are you making the claims you made regarding what is actually taking place here?

Your video open with two cops holding a searching a person on the sidewalk, followed my more cops arriving and yes, using some excessive force (from what we have been shown here) to place him in custody.

Your claim of "...for only eating sunflower seeds on the sidewalk" is not supported by this video, nor is ANYTHING you claim.

When, where was this taken? Where is the WHOLE video? Where can one see it in it's entirety so that proper context can be given and the viewer has a better idea of what is actually happening here?


Kindly note: I am not saying you are wrong. I am not saying the cops are right. I am not saying anything. I am asking you a question.

And if questions elicit any response that is not an answer to those questions, credibility will diminish.

Since I HAVE watched the entire video, do you have a response to the questions that I have?

[EOTE]

99. I wasn't replying to you, I was replying to the resident police apologist who DIDN'T watch the video

I agree with you that there are questions to be asked, but the knee jerk defense of cops engaged in brutality is sick. I'm imaging there ISN'T more video available, or perhaps the LAPD has it and doesn't want it released. There is a witness that informs the viewer of what happened first and I'm far, far more likely to believe that witness than anything provided by the LAPD. And considering I see the LAPD doing what every damned crooked cop does and scream "Stop resisting!!!!!", even though the "suspect" had stopped resisting long, long ago, I know that these guys are pretty awful excuses for human beings. I always hear people asking for additional context when they see cops beating the shit out of people who are not even close to resisting. Everything you need to know as to who is deadly in the wrong here is plainly presented in video. Cops are NOT allowed to go around beating the shit out of people because they feel like it. Beating the shit out of people who are defenseless and on the ground is NEVER allowed. Those cops are pieces of shit who belong in jail.

[cleanhippie]

101. Do you know when this was taken?

[EOTE]

102. About 5 years ago. NT

[cleanhippie]

107. And do you know wher one might find the beginning of the video that we do not get to see?

[EOTE]

111. If I did, I would have told you already.

As far as I know, that's the only portion of the video available. I've searched youtube with no luck. You're welcome to search as well. I would like to see the rest of it as well, but I can guarantee you that it wouldn't change my opinion that the LAPD is, without a doubt, seriously in the wrong here.

[cleanhippie]

114. I've looked too, with no luck. I remain skeptical about the claims made by the OP.

The lack of context for the video, coupled with the OP's adamant refusal to address a few logical questions are, IMO, quite telling.

I applaud the OP's passion for exposing police brutality and malfeasance, but doing it the manner she has done here hurts her cause. It helps not at all.

[EOTE]

116. The context is that members of the LAPD are beating the shit out of someone who is not resisting

all the while screaming "stop resisting!". That homeless man is then taken away in an ambulance because of the beatdown he received. That is all the context one needs to know that those cops are worthless pieces of shit who belong in jail.

[Fire Walk With Me]

121. "cleanippie" is here to shout us down for some unimaginable reason. Don't respond to it. I'm done.

[EOTE]

123. I guess he's one of those "Give due respect and deference to the cops who beat the shit out of

innocents" hippies. Not exactly what I think of when I think of hippies, but the times, they are a changin'.

[Fire Walk With Me]

125. Yeah. Confuses me as well. n/t

[cleanhippie]

80. What does sthat have to do with the fact that this video lacks ANY context at all.

You reluctance to address that is disconcerting.

[Fire Walk With Me]

92. Why is it so very difficult for people to understand that 16 cops putting a defenseless homeless man

into a hospital is bad? That is rhetorical. I will not attempt to educate anyone if they cannot get that. LAPD are out of control. Why not see my other current GD posts about what they've been up to recently, such as fist-bumping after twice body-slamming a handcuffed woman to the ground, or the woman they kicked in the groin who died from it, or the teen they shot at 90 times? Much less the 64 bullets they unloaded at a pair of Hispanic women they thought were Chris Dorner.

[cleanhippie]

96. HOW DOES THE VIEWER KNOW THIS IS A DEFENSLESS HOMELESS MAN?

I am not doubting you, I am being skeptical because the only way to KNOW is to see it for myself.

Come on, FWWM, I am not attacking you, I am asking why there is no context for this video other than your claim?


On edit: There is a post below that shows this video was uploaded in 2008.

[Fire Walk With Me]

117. Good Lord. YES, the video is from 2008. I thought I'd included that in the OP along with the

text from the LA CAN web page. If you look at a couple of my current GD LAPD malfeasance threads, you'll see I've included the date.

If it being from 2008 somehow invalidates its depiction of gang behavior, of unfairness, of brutality, that's on you. No deceit was intended. :/

AGAIN and for the last time, three is enough, four gets you Ignored: Go to the LA CAN website and contact them for all answers regarding the video. I for one believe them, having been present at actions alongside them.

Can you do that? You can ask three times and twice ignore my having presented the source, from which you may get your answers. This is the limit of my willingness to address your apparent attempts to distract from real, actual police criminal behavior.

[cleanhippie]

119. YOU POSTED THIS! WHY DO I NEED TO ASK SOMEONE ELSE ABOUT WHAT YOU POSTED?

Nevermind.

Good luck.

[Fire Walk With Me]

128. Because they can answer all of your questions, better than I could?

Sorry for pointing you to the most qualified source for answers. Your questions seem INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT so I've given you the best place to ask them. Obviously you don't care whatsoever about your answers; you only care to ask them as distraction and discursion from the actual topic of police brutality and LAPD being corrupt and out of control. Are you certain you are on the correct website?

[cleanhippie]

129. You seem unable to answer ANY questions about the video.

Since that is the case, perhaps an OP about LA CAN and who they are/what they do would be more productive than posting a video lacking any context. YMMV.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. LAPD is out of control

This is not a hate the cops thread, it is true.

I don't have to watch the Video, have seen many like that. One of them in my evening news, you might remember it too.

Just because they are cops does not mean they can't do no wrong.

LAPD has been under federal oversight a few times...you tell me why. They need to go back under federal oversight.

[slackmaster]

9. Please see reply #6

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Please study the history of LAPD.

You might want to start with Rampart, the most recent time the Feds got involved.

I do not worship the ground cops walk on, at all...

It is way time the DoJ gets involved, in fact, way past time.

Oh and will add this factoid. Nooz story...who do you think issues press credentials in the Los Angeles basin?

[slackmaster]

22. Given your occupation, I'm a bit surprised at your lack of curiosity about this incident.

You're not asking any questions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. I ask them

But I am in San Diego, where our cops behave better. That happened after DOJ intervention in the 1980s. It's also a much smaller department, so cleaning it up is way easier.

Given you have been told this is not new...there is a pattern of abuse in LA, by chiefly LAPD.

You can go dig, promise ain't that hard, start with Rampart. Then find local community leaders.

I am as serious as a heart attack on that.

Go read on the Rampart scandal...educate yourself.

And I will e brutally honest. A traffic stop in LA by LAPD is a terrifying prospect.

[slackmaster]

58. I'm aware of the LAPD's history. The OP has not presented a convincing case that this incident...

...is an example of the kind of abuse they've been in trouble for in the past.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

87. Remember when Dorner released a statement admitting he killed people?

Remember how there was a rush of people cautioning "Due process! Due process! Don't rush to judge!"

Apparently we're a nation of men, not laws; as this thread and your interlocutors so grotesquely display.

[slackmaster]

95. It's been almost seven years since the video in the OP was uploaded to YouTube

That should have been plenty of time to judge whether or not the LAPD officers involved in the incident did anything wrong.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

100. I'm guessing it did not resolve in the OPs favor otherwise we would have heard about it

and it would be dismissed as proof of a greater corruption. Or maybe it did and that means someone does watch the watchdogs and thus ruin the meme that someone needs to watch the watchdogs. I dunno.

What astounds me is we're supposed to give Dorner the benefit of the doubt and due process despite his written admissions but a video edited ala James O'Keefe is admissable, irrefutable and unquestionable because it plays into the narrative that Dorner has a righteous axe to grind even though he's admitted to targeting people unrelated to his grievances.

[nadinbrzezinski]

143. Yet you refused to watch it.

I did not, but only because I have watched a lot of them.

[slackmaster]

144. No, I've watched it all the way through twice

Before I discovered that it was uploaded to YouTube in 2008.

[nadinbrzezinski]

145. And...this is not new

[ret5hd]

8. Bullshit. looks like cops beat a man for sunflower seeds.

[Fire Walk With Me]

12. They replied without having even watched a minute of the video, much less the end. Check the time

on my OP and their response: both are 7:30AM (my time). Knee-jerk.

[Tempest]

34. Two things you'll never get from Slackmaster

An honest discussion and reasonable responses.

[Fire Walk With Me]

35. Ah. Thank you.

[slackmaster]

13. I don't see any sunflower seeds in the video

I seen an anonymous witness saying that the guy was eating sunflower seeds.

Who is he? Why should I believe him?

All I can say for sure is there were a whole lot of cops on the scene. What they were doing is not obvious.

[Fire Walk With Me]

16. Cops swarming and beating a man who is simply trying to be left alone is not obvious?

You replied to this thread without having watched the video. Your replies are moot.

[slackmaster]

21. The cops are already on the guy at the start of the video

What happened before that?

[Fire Walk With Me]

23. He was black and homeless. If you do not know that in itself is enough, you are not paying attention

You have destroyed your credibility through commenting without having even watched the video. Please leave the thread.

[cleanhippie]

90. Really? How can you possibly get that from the video?

Had the OP not front-loaded you with information NOT available in the video, how sould one possibly come to that conclusion?

How is the OP making the claims she made regarding what is actually taking place here?

The video open with two cops holding and searching a person on the sidewalk, followed my more cops arriving and yes, using what may appear to be excessive force (from what we have been shown here) to place him in custody.

The OP's claim of "...for only eating sunflower seeds on the sidewalk" is not supported by this video, nor is ANYTHING she claims.

When, where was this taken? Where is the WHOLE video? Where can one see it in it's entirety so that proper context can be given and the viewer has a better idea of what is actually happening here?

[EOTE]

24. Seriously, why can't more DUers be completely apathetic to police brutality like you are?

Always up in arms when cops beat the shit out of or kill innocents. It's like, can't DUers find better things to do than to stop the hastening of the police state? They should just go home and stroke their guns like you.

[Fire Walk With Me]

27. Did you note that they did not even watch the video before their initial reply? Check the post times

of the OP and their response: both are 7:30 by my clock. Speaks volumes to their intent and credibility.

[EOTE]

29. I did note that.

And then he has the nerve to ask myriad questions about the circumstances when he wasn't even willing to watch the video in the first place. Disgusting.

[zappaman]

50. No they don't.

[datasuspect]

52. yes, they do

infinity.

[zappaman]

78. oops.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2357440

guess not.

[frylock]

68. you're the expert on lame

[Downtown Hound]

82. Go play with your guns, slackmaster.

The adults have important things to discuss.

[Marrah_G]

2. They are out of control

[libtodeath]

4. On a rampage.

[cali]

5. I think the word terrorist is vastly overused in this country

Beck misused it and now you're following in his footsteps. Not exactly footprints I'd care to step in.

[EOTE]

30. Terrorism is the systematic use of terror, especially violent terror as a form of coercion.

If that doesn't fit to an absolute T what the LAPD is doing, I don't know what the hell does. They're the textbook definition of terrorists.

[cali]

54. actually, not.

and if you're going to cite from a source- in this case, wiki- you need to provide a link instead of passing something off as your own words.

Lacking here is the political element. The LAPD is corrupt. It certainly has a shitload of criminal actions in its history (both old and very recent), but no, it's not a terrorist operation.

From wiki:

Terrorism is the systematic use of terror, often violent, especially as a means of coercion. In the international community, however, terrorism has no legally binding, criminal law definition.[1][2] Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts which are intended to create fear (terror); are perpetrated for a religious, political or, ideological goal; and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (civilians). Some definitions now include acts of unlawful violence and war. The use of similar tactics by criminal organizations for protection rackets or to enforce a code of silence is usually not labeled terrorism, though these same actions may be labeled terrorism when done by a politically motivated group. The writer Heinrich Böll and scholars Raj Desai and Harry Eckstein have suggested that attempts to protect against terrorism may lead to a kind of social oppression.[3][4]

The word "terrorism" is politically and emotionally charged,[5] and this greatly compounds the difficulty of providing a precise definition. Studies have found over 100 definitions of “terrorism”.[6][7] The concept of terrorism may be controversial as it is often used by state authorities (and individuals with access to state support) to delegitimize political or other opponents,[8] and potentially legitimize the state's own use of armed force against opponents (such use of force may be described as "terror" by opponents of the state).[8][9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism

[EOTE]

61. Christ, you need some learning comprehension.

A political goal is one of many of the goals of terrorism. And the FBI leaves out the political goals and solely focuses on the methods. You've provided one huge load of fail. There are many definitions of terrorism and the LAPD suits a number of them quite nicely. But you go on and keep defending these murderous fucks.

[cali]

72. lol. and you need some reading comprehension

dearie.

and to learn not to plagiarize. That would be a nice start.

And do try to use any functioning brain cells that may be inside your skull. In no way did I defend the LAPD. I clearly condemned the organization, sparky.

The overuse of the word terrorism indicates a lack of critical thinking and a propensity to the use of language to inflame. The government does it. The LAPD does and so do lots of very dim little bulbs.

[EOTE]

74. Plagiarism my ass, terrorism has a fairly simple definition.

That the one I've heard hundreds of times before is similar to part of Wiki's has nothing to do with me. And yes, you are clearly defending the LAPD. Lack of critical thinking is what you're epitomizing when you don't see what is so abundantly clear. They fit the definition to a T. To say that one who doesn't see that is a dim bulb would be putting down dim bulbs everywhere. They're fucking terrorists, that you're not bright enough to recognize it reflects very poorly on you.

[cali]

79. Classic plagiarism. word for word theft of a quote with nothing

to indicate that you'd copied it.

Do quote my defense of the LAPD. Do it. I triple dog dare you.


The LAPD is clearly, as I said in what you moronically call a defense, criminal in many of its actions and corrupt. That does not make it, de facto, a terrorist operation anymore than Chris Dorner is a terrorist. Just because someone or some organization instills fear/terror, does not make that person/organization a practitioner of terrorism.

As I said, it's a vastly overused word.

As far as your cute little claim that I'm "not bright enough..." could you be any more petulant or childish?

Effective rhetoric seems to be as foreign to you as critical thinking. Hint: Don't flat out make bogus claims. You need to be more artful.

kisses

[EOTE]

84. You're saying that these men who employ terrorist tactics...

You know, like locking up innocents, torturing innocents and killing innocents in order to achieve a culture of fear... are not terrorists.

That's pretty fucking stupid.

And if the best you've got is to accuse me of plagiarism and then bullshit and lie to make your point, that's pretty pathetic.

Notice you didn't say I plagiarized from Merriam Webster which follows my words far more closely than Wiki. Perhaps that might be because I'm educated and actually know of which I speak? There are hundreds of other words I could provide definitions for as well, it's called being literate, you might want to look into it. Unlike you who wouldn't know what terrorism is if it bit you in your ass? Like you who'd defend the LAPD when they consistently attack, torture and imprison innocent people. Without a doubt a textbook definition of terrorism. You are not only making bogus claims, but you are flat out lying.

And you're also so incredibly ignorant as to not realize that Dorner is a terrorist? Again, there is not a more appropriate word to describe Dorner. He's a terrorist using terrorist tactics on another terrorist organization. That you don't see this only further shows how incredibly ignorant you are on this issue.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrorism

Go ahead and try to educate yourself.

[cali]

105. No, I simply tried to make the point that the word terrorist is overused. duh.

look, you're a simplistic, black and white "thinker".

The LAPD is a large organization. Clearly it has done some very bad things and has a long history of corruption, but that isn't the sum total of the LAPD- anymore than atrocities committed by some National Guard members, for instance constitute the sum total of The National Guard. Large institutions are almost never without corruption and criminal activity. Part of that is an extension of institutional behavior. It's complicated.

The LAPD needs to be investigated by an independent entity. It needs reform. It needs, in simple words, to clean house, but it does not need to be abolished. Would that we lived in a place and time where police weren't needed. We do not.

Terrorism as a word suffers from such pervasive overuse and misuse that its been rendered near meaningless. I don't use it. At all. It's just become a bogie word like "Communism" during the 50s and 60s. It's used by people to indicate the worst possible thing anybody or any entity could be. It's fucking lazy to fling it about as a monkey flings shit.

At this point, who or what hasn't been labeled with the "T" word? President Bush was. President Obama has been. So has Congress, the Tea Party and on and on.

Surely it's not that hard to articulate one's thoughts about a person or organization without falling back on a word so overused that it now means virtually nothing.

Well, I wish it weren't.

[EOTE]

109. No, you tried to make the point that the LAPD are NOT terrorists.

Now you're trying to move the goalposts and just say the term is overused. The term may be overused, but there's no more appropriate word to describe the LAPD. The LAPD needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, pretty much everyone there needs to be removed and replaced. No one is suggesting that LA be completely without a police force, that is simply a strawman. The group employs terrorism, it does it on a daily basis.

[cali]

112. what, what, what? Now you're just ridiculous.

I ended where I started.

You are completely full of it.

It is not an appropriate word to describe the LAPD. It's employment in this context is exactly what I described in the post you're responding to. Nigh on meaningless.

Pathetic. All of your posts. And just bullshit. I'm done. This has become more than a little boring.

buh bye.

Oh and sorry but I won't be reading anything more from you. You just don't have a thoughtful thing to say.

[EOTE]

115. Silly me, going by your actual words. I should have known you'd want me to use your thoughts

instead.

No, you never said the LAPD aren't terrorists, you wrote it. I should have been more specific. You DO know you're on the internet and your words are saved for posterity, right?

"The LAPD is corrupt. It certainly has a shitload of criminal actions in its history (both old and very recent), but no, it's not a terrorist operation. "

Derp.

[Egalitarian Thug]

141. LAPD fits the definition

ter·ror·ist [ter-er-ist]
noun
1. a person, usually a member of a group, who uses or advocates terrorism.
2. a person who terrorizes or frightens others.
3. (formerly) a member of a political group in Russia aiming at the demoralization of the government by terror.
4. an agent or partisan of the revolutionary tribunal during the Reign of Terror in France.

adjective
5. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of terrorism or terrorists: terrorist tactics.

Besides, the most beautiful thing about the label is that it is so perfectly flexible. Anybody can be labeled a terrorist for merely objecting to anything, and then we can kill them with righteousness intact.

[Catherina]

15. A second African American Former LAPD Officer posted his Manifesto on FB last night

It's interesting that he cc'd OccupyPolice. Facebook has already removed it "This content is currently unavailable"

~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ *


In its entirety, it reads exactly (typos and grammatical errors included):



“My Former LAPD Officer Joe Jones MANIFESTO…

I know most of you who personally who me are in disbelief of the partial story I will tell today. A story that has been suppressed for about 18 years, But lives strong everyday of my life.

I without hesitation would like to send my condolences to the Victims who were lost and their families during this tragic situation. I would also like to send my condolences and well wishes to the many former and current Officers, as well as Citizen’s and their families who lost the lives and souls of loved one’s to the injustices of Police Corruption, Scandal, Lies, Deception and Brutality.

Unlike Former Officer Dorner, I fear dying; But I also fear living in a society where Innocent people are dying for no reason. A society where pain so great can be afflicted to people who have to desire to live right and treat people right and then be punished for doing right.

They say we all look alike. In very few cases this of course is true. But in most cases it is not. I feel a resemblance to Dorner, (See Photos) However several people who have no resemblance to Dorner have been shot due to the fear of what is taking place. I DO NOT WANT TO BE SHOT FOR CRIMES I DID NOT COMMIT!. Neither does anyone else.

To preface my story I will say this: Just like former Officer Christopher Dorner I used to smile a lot. I loved everyone. I was voted Friendliest Senior of my Sr. Class in High School. I always believed in the system and never got into any trouble. I loved hard and gave to all I could. After Joining the LAPD in 1989 I quickly found out that the world and society had major flaws. I had flaws as well for ever believing that our system of government was obligated to do the right thing. his is what I believed as a young Officer. Without going into major detail, I need you to first assume that I would not surface 16 years later with lies about a situation that has me with PTSD to this very day. The pain forces me to speak as I have yet to shake the Ill’s of my experience as an LAPD Officer. Of course I have moved on physically. But mentally and emotionally I still live with flaws.

I can’t go into re-living the emotions of what I went through so I will say this. I had my home viciously attacked by a gunman with my family and myself inside the house. No arrests were made and my family and I Received very little support. I had my Civil Rights violated on several occasions. I was falsely arrested at gunpoint by the Sheriffs as an Officer who ID’d himself and was conspired against by both LAPD and the Sheriffs when my Civil case went to Trial. I was falsely accused on more than one occasion and simply placed in a position that the trust was so compromised that I could no longer wear the Uniform. Also know there were many more episodes. All of these issues are well documented and I present them not to be a Whistle blower, However to hope that one would not assume that all of what is being said is Lies as presented by Dorner. I don’t know him, But I know me. I will say from my experience, If a person knows they were wrong it is easier to move on without anger. Seems that Dorner obviously could not move on… Could I just be content and move on with my life and not say anything? Yes…Then I would feel that I for once had my chance to speak on something that hurts me to this day and I did nothing to arouse thought or provoke reform. This is what I hope comes from this whole situation:

1. Families that lost someone to this tragedy find the peace that only God can give at this terrible time.

2. Citizens of Los Angeles be mindful of this fearful time to be an Officer and comply vigorously so that you are not the victim of an Officer on high alert.

3. Government and Politicians please be diligent in the responsibility of creating Laws that protect those who could be the victim of a conspiracy. Never allow the door to be shut on the Truth.

4. Honest and Fair LAPD & All Agencies: Keep doing what you are doing to protect citizens and be safe while you are doing so. We need you and I would hope that you do not allow the Bureaucratic drama and Stress to kill your morale as I know it can.

5. Unethical LAPD & all Agencies: Whatever is was that lead you down this path, Pray to somebody’s God to forgive you and begin to remove unethical methods to your policing style. Always think what if it were you, How would you feel?..How would you like if you were falsely accused and your life, lively-hood and career was taken from you? How would you like if someone was beating on you just because they felt they could get away with it? You are no better the criminals you took and oath to arrest when you do what you do!

6. Chistopher Dorner. The 1st thing I would say to him is, I feel your pains!…But you are going about this the wrong way. To take innocent lives could never be the answer to anything. I say this as a Man who experienced the same pain, betrayal, anger, suffering, litigation and agony that you did in many ways, Only I didn’t get Fired. I just choose to go a different route. My heart still suffered that same shock, I was still left to try and put the pieces back together. The disbelief that people could conspire and cause you to loose something you loved so dearly was still there. I lost my Career, I lost my Family, I lost my Dignity, I lost my Trust…But I am here now to hopefully one day see change…Bro, Don’t kill anymore Innocent people. Your point has been made. Clearly. They know you mean business, The whole world knows. Refrain from any further wrong doing and do what you must to salvage your Soul. Whatever that means to you. Just remember that God is a forgiving God.

In conclusion I say to people who knew none of this about me that one day I will have to reflect on when was the time to speak. When I see the potential for innocent lives to be lost…The time is Now!…JJ”

H/T: Occupy Police .

http://freakoutnation.com/2013/02/11/a-second-former-lapd-officer-releases-a-manifesto/

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Shh, inconvenient.

[dkf]

38. What does the home invasion have to do with police misconduct?

How is that connected to the rest of it or are those other situations?

Is he lumping in Sheriffs with the LAPD?

The weird thing is that both these guys aren't so upset with LAPD treatment of the public, but of themselves. If there is that much corruption, shouldn't there be more documentation of injustices done to the public? If its not there, is it because they themselves are participants?

Instead they all turn it into workplace problems.

[Fire Walk With Me]

42. LA sheriffs are just as bad. Please see my current post in GD about the Jump Out Boys. n/t

[NCTraveler]

19. I don't know if they are domestic terrorists.

But they are clearly out of control. LA is a difficult geographical area to police and the actual police only make it more difficult. The lack of trust the citizens have in the PD, and rightfully so, makes safety and security even worse. I can only imagine that the last thing a citizen wants to do is to have any interaction with the LAPD. It is pretty clear that the upper ranks are only there to protect and serve themselves.

[Dreamer Tatum]

36. Cop bad. Bread good.

There...saved you roughly 5000 posts.

[Fire Walk With Me]

46. LAPD are corrupt and must be thoroughly revised. On local mainstream media they are damning Dorner

and utterly fail to mention that he was attempting to out severe departmental corruption. So long as corporate and political media are failing to report that critical aspect of the overall story, I will bring it to light.

An LAPD assaulted me with a baton repeatedly during a peaceful 1st Amendment action. My comrades got grabbed, one from behind, arrested, and given felonies. I personally understand that they break the law at will and make it up as they go, all the while protecting themselves and each other. I can only empathize with those who have had to live under similar conditions downtown, all these years.

[Dreamer Tatum]

55. Most attempts to out corruption are best served

when not accompanied by multiple cold-blooded murders and an unfocused, celebrity-obsessed manifesto.

Your inability and/or unwillingness to condemn Dorner's actions without hastily mentioning the LAPD is clear indication
that you at least in part excuse his rampage. Sorry, but I can't excuse it at all, especially when LAPD corruption and
brutality are practically in the canon of popular culture. I have learned more about LAPD corruption from watching LA Confidential
than from Dorner, and LA Confidential didn't murder three people.

I'm sorry you were assaulted by cops.

[Fire Walk With Me]

70. I do not condone his ALLEGED murders (innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, remember)

and shame on you for taking that from my posts. LAPD have murdered innocent citizens, assaulted and shot and harassed and violated civil rights for decades or longer, and THEY have the gall to call Dorner a "domestic terrorist" in hopes of gaining sympathy, while local media, what small amount I've seen, are of course staunchly on the cops side and aren't even mentioning that Dorner had cited many cases of corruption and abuse, which must be fully investigated by outside agencies. He sent a DVD of supposed evidence backing up his claims of abuse, but none has yet to appear or to my knowledge, to have been discussed.

LAPD are indeed domestic terrorists by the FBI definition of the use or threat of violence to seek to cause a group to change their politics.

OccupyLA, short version, March 17 2012:

Macarthur Park 2007:

Published on Dec 20, 2010

This is a documentary created by members of Revolutionary Autonomous Communities and community members of Westlake/Pico Union. This is a people account of what really happen May 1st 2007 on MacArthur Park, when the LAPD's Metro unit attacked a peaceful march and rally of community members, activist, labor organizers, the corporate media, ETC. No profits were made on this film and all the footage and Music belongs to it's original owners. So please post and share this film for the world to see, because we will never let this be swept under the rug. With Music by Rebels To The Grain and many other L.A. based musicians.

[Dreamer Tatum]

75. You mean LAPD's ALLEGED murders, then. nt

[Fire Walk With Me]

97. Alleged, such as this? WARNING: GRAPHIC

90 bullets. 90. He had no gun whatsoever.

German police shot 85 bullets at people in 2011, 49 of them being warning shots:

http://news.yahoo.com/german-police-used-only-85-bullets-against-people-155155175.html

[Dreamer Tatum]

133. Yes, alleged, using your criteria. nt

[Fire Walk With Me]

135. Then I'll be clear...I have seen zero evidence that Chris Dorner has committed the crimes

attributed him. If there is video, I'll accept it. If not, I'll wait until a court of law finds evidence clearly and directly linking him. Police are allowed to lie as they gather evidence; it's a law. Considering my experience of LAPD and LA city hall as an Occupy activist, including court support, I'll have to say it's entirely possible it's a lie, and I'll remain open to evidence. If there is some please link to it?

This does not mean I condone the acts attributed to him.

[Dreamer Tatum]

136. Agreed, at long last. nt

[Fire Walk With Me]

138. Sorry for any confusion on my part. It's been a long...thread ;)

[AnotherMcIntosh]

37. "LAPD are domestic terrorists"? Yes, if you consider the US Code and the FBI's definition:

From the National Institute of Justice:

"The search for a universal, precise definition of terrorism has been challenging for researchers and practitioners alike. Different definitions exist across the federal, international and research communities.

"Title 22 of the U.S. Code, Section 2656f(d) defines terrorism as “premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.” [1]

"The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) defines terrorism as “the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.”

"Both definitions of terrorism share a common theme: the use of force intended to influence or instigate a course of action that furthers a political or social goal. In most cases, NIJ researchers adopt the FBI definition, which stresses methods over motivations and is generally accepted by law enforcement communities.

http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/terrorism/welcome.htm

[Fire Walk With Me]

40. Yes. And as an Occupy activist in LA, I can assure you that they are using force and threat and

courts to attempt to get everyone who shows up, to stop and go home and stay there. And that's just against activists. Consider the long-term oppression of the homeless on Skid Row. I can assure you and have posted here in GD that the homeless in LA have been criminalized and are being pressured to leave that area because ccala.org, a haughty business lobby with strong influence in city hall (and thus, LAPD), are attempting to gentrify that area. They succeeded in doing so to an area a while back; it is depicted in the book and film "The Soloist", so their new attack upon Skid Row is terrorism, but for profit purposes. (Bratton's "safer cities initiative" provides IIRC $6,000,000 a year to fund an extra 50 police in Skid Row, and that number has recently been upped again. Something like 4.7 or 5.7 million dollars are spent on the homeless citywide per year. That's citywide, not just the small zone of Skid Row, which is within walking distance of City Hall.)

A few months ago, an area of Skid Row not even mentioned in the city's health study of the area was increasingly pressured by LAPD and ccala.org's "redshirts", who are their corporate security squads (yes, roving corporate security with zero accountability to the public). This area was Occupy Skid Row. They agreed to pack up to allow a larger-than-usual street cleaning, but once through the safety tape, were not allowed back in to get the rest of their property. LA CAN and OccupyLA lawyers were present and got them back in to get all of their stuff. One person who had been allowed through against a red light (cop lifted the safety tape to let them cross on the red light) was then given a ticket for it. Once the cleaning was done, it was announced that everyone could not return and must go elsewhere. We moved everything back anyway. Cops came and formed a line and pressed us down the street, clearing it again completely. News crews from Spanish channels began to arrive and the cops backed off. Occupy Skid Row set up again in their spot. Later that evening, among many police cruisers which did slow drive-bys, one came through with LAPD chief Charlie Beck in the passenger seat, looking over the situation. I saw the vehicle but not Beck, but everyone was saying it was him. This shows how much sway cca have in city hall, and how much far up the decision tree little goes little things such as homeless activists and the ground and rights they defend.

Cops stepped up their bullying and made nuisance arrests and at least for a while, managed to break up the group. Domestic terrorism.


Saturday, June 23, 2012
Occupy Skid Row, Evicted and Re-Occupied!

http://occupyobservations.blogspot.com/2012/06/occupy-skid-row-evicted-and-re-occupied.html


Sunday, September 2, 2012
Occupy Skid Row is gone. LA Times lies about them

http://occupyobservations.blogspot.com/2012/09/occupy-skid-row-is-gone-la-times-lies.html

[polly7]

39. "Stop resisting!"

I didn't see him resist at all. And why all those cops, when he wasn't even moving, apart from doing what they told him to do.

Poor guy

[Fire Walk With Me]

41. They shout that so that they have "proof" in court. :(

[polly7]

48. Aw, that makes sense. Pretty bad actors, those cops. nt.

[MadHound]

43. I hesistate, in this day and age, to apply the word "terrorist" to anybody or any group,

However the fact remains that the LAPD is one of most abusive, corrupt and violent departments in this country, and they have a long history of being so.

[geek tragedy]

45. Why does every lowlife thug, murderer, and sadist have to be a terrorist as well?

I mean, do we just call every villain a terrorist and thus strip the term of any objective meaning?

Dorner isn't a terrorist. The LAPD thugs aren't terrorists. They're bad guys, criminals, murderers etc.

[tblue37]

47. When I see all those cops converge on this one guy, so MANY

that most of them cannot even get close to him because they are blocked by all the other cops who are already all over him, it looks to me as though they see a chance to have a little fun, to do a little pounding, and they are eager to get in on the party.

[Iggo]

67. You are seeing correctly.

[Incitatus]

91. I see plenty of cops standing there to block the camera the best they can.

That is not an uncommon practice in several videos like this.

[Fire Walk With Me]

104. I've encountered them doing so over and over. I was assaulted once for attempting to record them

making an arrest-- which is illegal.

[zappaman]

49. No, they aren't.

The cop hate here is overboard.
I miss UNREC.

[RetroLounge]

148. Oh, quelle surprise

RL

[Iggo]

63. Yay, Cops!

They're the best!

[edgineered]

76. Seen it all before with

Alex and his droogies in A Clockwork Orange, oh wait,
his droogies went on to become cops,
and STILL DO THE SAME THING

Its nice to see how much better our society has become

[Egalitarian Thug]

142. Exactly what Burgess was writing about. n/t

[edgineered]

149. Good to see an enlightened mind, ergo a fine sig also. nt

[limpyhobbler]

77. Cops need to be held accountable for their own good.

I don't "hate cops". Not in general. But I do hate a system that allows abuses of power to go on without ever holding people accountable. It seems to be just a sick corrupt system. Even the cops that work there probably have a hard time fighting against it. Cops can't enjoy being hated by their communities.

[cleanhippie]

85. How are you making the claims you made regarding what is actually taking place here?

Your video open with two cops holding a searching a person on the sidewalk, followed my more cops arriving and yes, using some excessive force (from what we have been shown here) to place him in custody.

Your claim of "...for only eating sunflower seeds on the sidewalk" is not supported by this video, nor is ANYTHING you claim.

When, where was this taken? Where is the WHOLE video? Where can one see it in it's entirety so that proper context can be given and the viewer has a better idea of what is actually happening here?





Kindly note: I am not saying you are wrong. I am not saying the cops are right. I am not saying anything. I am asking you a question.

And if questions elicit any response that is not an answer to those questions, credibility will diminish.

[slackmaster]

93. Look what I found on YouTube - "Uploaded on Jul 25, 2008"

I thought the story seemed somehow familiar.

[Fire Walk With Me]

108. Yes, that is the video from the OP. All you have to do is right-click and open in a new tab to see

the source page. This is important how...?

[slackmaster]

113. I don't have a right mouse button, but that's beside the point.

You presented it without any direct indication of timeliness therefore a lot of people, including me, initially assumed it to be fresh information. That's not a good way to start an honest discussion about abuses by the LAPD.

So, what ever happened to the sunflower seed man, or to the cops who were attempting to detain him in the context of an effort to clean up LA's Skid Row? Did he get help for whatever behavior problems caused him to struggle rather than cooperate with the police?

Were any officers fired or otherwise disciplined? From the video, it looks like they were taking great pains not to hurt the man. He was supposedly aken to a hospital afterward, but you haven't given any indication of why. Was he taken to detox? Put in the psych hospital for a 72-hour evaluation? Was he treated and released? Was he ever charged with a crime, such as felony eating sunflower seeds, or littering and creating a nuisance?

Where is he now? What is his name?

[Fire Walk With Me]

124. I've updated the OP to include the date of the video as well as the source.

I made a mistake; I'd though I'd included the date. If you'll see my other current GD threads regarding LAPD malfeasance, you'll see that I've included the date to differentiate from current events, but to support the need for LAPD dismantling.

Address all of your questions to LA CAN. If you are absolutely unable to see the unfairness and brutality which are clear in the video, that is. LA CAN have all the information you require, and more. Why not contact them?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

134. Regardless of the date, it is certainly related to Beck's calling Dorner a "domestic terrorist."

If anything, it shows that the unnecessary and excessive police brutality in the Los Angeles area has been going on for some time.

It also shows that the Boys-in-Blue have a happy and gleeful attitude over their beat-down. This is professionalism?

[PDJane]

130. Once upon a time I was married to a member of the local constabulary.

I can see him and his cohorts doing something like this. There are two things you have to remember about the police.
1. They aren't recruiting choir boys or candidates for sainthood.
2. If they were to recruit those types, they would find themselves in a crowd of people whose morals are weaker than their penchant for violence. That remains the case in the PD here, too.

That's a recipe for disaster: the powerless get the violent acts. The homeless, runaways, prostitutes, the kid down the street they don't like. It's also a recipe for domestic violence.

Moreover, this kind of problem is systemic. Don't glorify the police or the military, and a lot of this stuff goes away.

[Fire Walk With Me]

132. Shout-out to those who have kept this thread kicked no matter their intent!

[edgineered]

140. Anyone who denies this as an act of injustice or being excusable is wrong

Regardless of what happened prior to the beginning of the recording, the guy was not fighting or resisting at any time. And how many police were needed for this one arrest? Certainly evidenced by the number of law enforcement coming to assist at the scene would leave any observer to believe someone capable of injuring masses of people was apprehended, on the level of a suicide bomber, mass murderer, heavily armed thug or terrorist. Viewing the clip showed me terrorists, by definition, were involved; note the 's' on the end of terrorist - I saw terrorists and not a terrorist.

The authority of the police has grown out of control. We must support any efforts we can to bring the efforts of law enforcement agencies across the country to have police protecting ALL the public and not the powers that be.

[Zax2me]

150. The problem is, you are using a murderer as a crutch.

Which reflects poorly on you.
(more so your inability to recognize as much)